Hi people!

Once again, I need some advice from those more experienced with mics...

I bought these two old used Sennheiser MD421's. The previous owner says that
they are perhaps 25 years old. They are colored the same (grey/beige) but
otherwise are not alike. At least The Sennheiser logo in them is different.
I think they are both HL's although only one of them has it written on it.

Aaaanyway, the reason I'm writing is that the other (the one with the
writing) does not work properly. The sound in it is honky and doesn't seem
to have almost any bass. I believe it has something to do with the fact that
the 5-way S-M switch does not work properly: the switch turns 360 degrees
and doesn't click.

After some serious googling and searching through the postings in R.A.P. it
seems that the reason for the honky sound could be either

1. when the switch was broken, it got stuck to the "S" position (with the
high pass filter on). ...OR
2. There's something wrong with the wiring of the Tufnel - XLR
adapter...The mic does have the Tufnel connector, and to connect it to a
female XLR, I got a XLR adapter that apparently the previous owner had been
using too. So I would imagine that it would work.

Do any of you have any similar experiences with a broken switch in your
MD421? More importantly: do you have any suggestions how to fix it? I.e. is
there a way to change the position of the switch although it is broken? I
don't see any screws etc, that I could unscrew to get inside the mic...

I have took some photos of the mic in question, they might help with getting
the idea of the MD421 model that I'm talking about.
http://www.nic.fi/~luckyman/images/md421HL_1.jpg - overall image of the mic
http://www.nic.fi/~luckyman/images/md421HL_2.jpg - the logo in the mic
http://www.nic.fi/~luckyman/images/md421HL_3.jpg - the connector along with
the 10" Tufnel - XLR adapter that I got with the mic
http://www.nic.fi/~luckyman/images/md421HL_4.jpg - the plate/sticker that
tells the model of the mic

If you have any comments & suggestions, please let me know! Thanks!


Best regards,
Kalle

Ps.The other mic works great, and gives a very nice, smooth sound with
plenty of bass. It has a XLR connector, and its M-S seems to be fixed (with
glue) so that switching is not possible. That's why I cannot compare how the
mic would sound in a "S" position...

"Kalle L." wrote in message
...
Hi people!

1. when the switch was broken, it got stuck to the "S" position (with the
high pass filter on). ...OR

That would explain the missing bass .. but not the "honyness"

2. There's something wrong with the wiring of the Tufnel - XLR
adapter...The mic does have the Tufnel connector, and to connect it to a
female XLR, I got a XLR adapter that apparently the previous owner had
been
using too. So I would imagine that it would work.

How is it wired?

Do any of you have any similar experiences with a broken switch in your
MD421? More importantly: do you have any suggestions how to fix it? I.e.
is
there a way to change the position of the switch although it is broken? I
don't see any screws etc, that I could unscrew to get inside the mic...

Remove the number-plate, remove the screw under it.

There should be a very small metal ball under the switch, that controls the
movement of the switch.

/Preben Friis

"Kalle L." wrote in message
...
2. There's something wrong with the wiring of the Tufnel - XLR
adapter...The mic does have the Tufnel connector, and to connect it to a
female XLR, I got a XLR adapter that apparently the previous owner had
been
using too. So I would imagine that it would work.

The wiring for MD421-HL is in figure B of this picture.

http://hiq.homepage.dk/studio/421.jpg

/Preben Friis

Kalle L. wrote:
Aaaanyway, the reason I'm writing is that the other (the one with the
writing) does not work properly. The sound in it is honky and doesn't seem
to have almost any bass.

Two things go wrong with these: the elements go bad, and the bass cut
assembly goes bad.

I believe it has something to do with the fact that
the 5-way S-M switch does not work properly: the switch turns 360 degrees
and doesn't click.

I think those old models didn't have 5-way switches. I want to say they
had only two positions.

After some serious googling and searching through the postings in R.A.P. it
seems that the reason for the honky sound could be either

1. when the switch was broken, it got stuck to the "S" position (with the
high pass filter on). ...OR
2. There's something wrong with the wiring of the Tufnel - XLR
adapter...The mic does have the Tufnel connector, and to connect it to a
female XLR, I got a XLR adapter that apparently the previous owner had been
using too. So I would imagine that it would work.

So, you got an ohmmeter? Tell me how your cable is wired.

Do any of you have any similar experiences with a broken switch in your
MD421? More importantly: do you have any suggestions how to fix it? I.e. is
there a way to change the position of the switch although it is broken? I
don't see any screws etc, that I could unscrew to get inside the mic...

The plate comes off the side, and the screw under the plate comes out.
This allows you to pull out the switch assembly from the rear. THEN you
get a long 7mm nutdriver and insert it into the hole you made in the rear,
and unbolt the front half of the mike.

I suspect you have damaged elements, but the Sennheiser guys still have
parts for all this stuff.

Ps.The other mic works great, and gives a very nice, smooth sound with
plenty of bass. It has a XLR connector, and its M-S seems to be fixed (with
glue) so that switching is not possible. That's why I cannot compare how the
mic would sound in a "S" position...

Some of those models had no bass cut at all.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
Kalle L. wrote:
I think those old models didn't have 5-way switches. I want to say they
had only two positions.

No clicks ... but still continiously variable between M and S.

Some of those models had no bass cut at all.

I've got one of those; the MD521 .. - were there ever 421's without a
switch as well?

/Preben Friis

with unquestioned accuracy of thought, Kalle L. replied:

Hi people!

Once again, I need some advice from those more experienced with mics...

I bought these two old used Sennheiser MD421's. The previous owner says that
they are perhaps 25 years old. They are colored the same (grey/beige) but
otherwise are not alike. At least The Sennheiser logo in them is different.
I think they are both HL's although only one of them has it written on it.

Aaaanyway, the reason I'm writing is that the other (the one with the
writing) does not work properly. The sound in it is honky and doesn't seem
to have almost any bass. I believe it has something to do with the fact that
the 5-way S-M switch does not work properly: the switch turns 360 degrees
and doesn't click.

After some serious googling and searching through the postings in R.A.P. it
seems that the reason for the honky sound could be either

1. when the switch was broken, it got stuck to the "S" position (with the
high pass filter on). ...OR
2. There's something wrong with the wiring of the Tufnel - XLR
adapter...The mic does have the Tufnel connector, and to connect it to a
female XLR, I got a XLR adapter that apparently the previous owner had been
using too. So I would imagine that it would work.

Do any of you have any similar experiences with a broken switch in your
MD421? More importantly: do you have any suggestions how to fix it? I.e. is
there a way to change the position of the switch although it is broken? I
don't see any screws etc, that I could unscrew to get inside the mic...

I have took some photos of the mic in question, they might help with getting
the idea of the MD421 model that I'm talking about.
http://www.nic.fi/~luckyman/images/md421HL_1.jpg - overall image of the mic
http://www.nic.fi/~luckyman/images/md421HL_2.jpg - the logo in the mic
http://www.nic.fi/~luckyman/images/md421HL_3.jpg - the connector along with
the 10" Tufnel - XLR adapter that I got with the mic
http://www.nic.fi/~luckyman/images/md421HL_4.jpg - the plate/sticker that
tells the model of the mic

If you have any comments & suggestions, please let me know! Thanks!


Best regards,
Kalle

Ps.The other mic works great, and gives a very nice, smooth sound with
plenty of bass. It has a XLR connector, and its M-S seems to be fixed (with
glue) so that switching is not possible. That's why I cannot compare how the
mic would sound in a "S" position...



My 421 came from 1978. It also did the same thing you described. I wanted
Sennheiser to fix it but they would only swap it out for 300bucks or so.

So I took the ass end of the mic apart and found a disconnected wire. I
managed to mess up the switch in the process so now I have mine set
permanently on full range (M). You have to be careful and gentle. I
know....that goes for everything. Sheeeesh. The mic sounds great.

Be very careful about where the TINY detent ball goes when you take it
apart. Get a piece of tape and stick it on the tape. I lost mine and had
Sennheiser send me another. Patric

Hello again!

...and thanks for all the answers!

Remove the number-plate, remove the screw under it.

There should be a very small metal ball under the switch, that controls
the
movement of the switch.

I did this & I found the screw, and drew the back (switch part) apart of the
mic. But then I found this weird sight: there was some black (duck) tape
inside, and it had been used to keep the wiring together. It seemed like
someone had already been there, doing ...something. I don't really know much
about wiring, but this seemed like self-made. The wires seemed to be
connected weirdly: I'll include some images here....

And I also could not find the ball under the switch., that I could adjust
manually. There just seemed to be empty space around where the wires go
to the Tufnel connector. Could it be that I'm missing something vital now...

I took some photos again, so you'll see what the situation is here right
now...

http://www.nic.fi/~luckyman/images/md421HL_5.jpg
http://www.nic.fi/~luckyman/images/md421HL_6.jpg
http://www.nic.fi/~luckyman/images/md421HL_7.jpg
http://www.nic.fi/~luckyman/images/md421HL_8.jpg (the inside of the back
part of the mic, where the switch is located).

Again, I would appreciate if anyone has the patience to give some advice to
where I could go from here.


Regards, Kalle

In article writes:

Aaaanyway, the reason I'm writing is that the other (the one with the
writing) does not work properly. The sound in it is honky and doesn't seem
to have almost any bass. I believe it has something to do with the fact that
the 5-way S-M switch does not work properly: the switch turns 360 degrees
and doesn't click.

You're probably correct about that. The switch is a bass rolloff
switch, and without enough bass, you might call it "honky" (though
that usually refers to a boost in the 300-500 Hz range). The switch
should "click." I'd suggest that you send it to Sennheiser for repair
rather than trying to disassemble and repair it yourself. It's a bit
of a tricky disassembly job and you might end up with a couple of lost
parts that are spring-loaded.

The mic does have the Tufnel connector

Is this the connector named for Nigel Tufnel of Spinal Tap? You might
mean "Tuchel" (named after Cornielnus Tuchel of Kidney Stone). If
there's any reasonable signal level coming from the mic, the adapter
is almost certainly OK.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

Hi,

The mic does have the Tufnel connector
Is this the connector named for Nigel Tufnel of Spinal Tap?

Yeah it sure is ) Ok, so now its finally happened: I'm starting to mix
real life with that great movie! It would be cool if you'd always set me
straight when I start to babble about Dobly's and all that. Or maybe I
should start to teach myself the spelling of English/German words a little
more.. Thanks anyway Mike.

If
there's any reasonable signal level coming from the mic, the adapter
is almost certainly OK.

yeah, the levels seemed to be ok, the mic certainly isn't lacking those. In
the overall context of this mail I could say that they go up to eleven...

I may start to consider asking about it/sending it to Sennheiser. I just
hope that they have some kind of office/importer here in Finland.


Regards, Kalle

In article writes:

I did this & I found the screw, and drew the back (switch part) apart of the
mic. But then I found this weird sight: there was some black (duck) tape
inside, and it had been used to keep the wiring together. It seemed like
someone had already been there, doing ...something. I don't really know much
about wiring, but this seemed like self-made. The wires seemed to be
connected weirdly: I'll include some images here....

My suggestion is that you forget the switch and filter network and
just connect the mic output directly to the connector. If you use the
diagrams that someone pointed you to, the adapter should be correct.
Looking at your pictures, it appears that someone may have already
done this.

It's pretty rare that anyone uses that switch in anything but the full
bandwidth position other than for things like recording at a
conference table. You probably don't need it, and it sounds like your
mic may not have all the parts to put it back together again.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

In article znr1070829598k@trad (that's me!) writes:

My suggestion is that you forget the switch and filter network and
just connect the mic output directly to the connector.

I should add that there's a correct polarity for microphones relating
to which of the two signal pins goes positive with positive pressure
on the diaphragm. Unless you can compare it to the other mic, you have
a 50% chance of getting it wrong, so don't put all the screws back
until you test it.

You can check the polarity by connecting the mic, plus another one
that you assume is correct, to a mixer, pan them to the same position,
place them very close together, and point them at a sound source.

Start with the gain turned up on one (far enough so you can read a
meter or hear it on headphones) then increase the gain of the other
one. If the meter reading increases or the sound gets louder, the two
mics are wired with the same polarity. If the meter reading decreases,
then they're opposite. Swap the two leads and then button up the mic.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

Preben Friis wrote:

Some of those models had no bass cut at all.

I've got one of those; the MD521 .. - were there ever 421's without a
switch as well?

The -2's didn't have it, the large Tüchel screws directly on to the
body.

There were 5 U's that didn't have the tone control, KinoVox custom
modded them for me based on my old -n's and an custom aluminium ring
that fitted between the -2 mounting thread and a XLR-3F. Moving those
rear ends to newer mics had been interesting, I would certainly like to
have them on the 421's in the mic drawer.

I have a -21 u. that someone had modded with that custom rear end from a
-21 n, it appears to have been a good idea. KinoVox probably no longer
are able to do such modifications after abandoning production and
moving.

Oh, just to make it clear in case it is overlooked: the -hl appears as
being in opposite polarity to the -n when a normally wired low impedance
cable is used. This is something that can cause grief.

When the membrane of a 421 goes bad with age, not all of them do it,
then it looses all bass and gets unbearably sharp, there may be other
explanations in this context - I haven't yead read the thread with any
great care - but that was what came first to mind as the explanation. I
have discarded one such second hand mike that came with some other stuff
at the same price some years ago.


/Preben Friis


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

--
************************************************** ***********
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
************************************************** ***********

Mike Rivers wrote:

You're probably correct about that. The switch is a bass rolloff
switch, and without enough bass, you might call it "honky" (though
that usually refers to a boost in the 300-500 Hz range). The switch
should "click."

I seem to recall a stepless version with no clicks.

I'm really Mike Rivers - )


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

--
************************************************** ***********
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
************************************************** ***********

"Kalle L." wrote in message
...
And I also could not find the ball under the switch., that I could adjust
manually. There just seemed to be empty space around where the wires go
to the Tufnel connector. Could it be that I'm missing something vital
now...

The ball is under the platic ring, but is only responsible for the two
clicks. Not very vital at all.
Try to unscrew the metal ring around the connector and carefully remove the
platic ring. The arm of the switch is the little white platic tab seen on
the picture. The tab goes into a notch in the platic ring. If you can turn
your switch 360 degrees, something has gone wrong in there.

http://hiq.homepage.dk/studio/421switch.jpg

/Preben Friis

"Peter Larsen" wrote in message
...
Preben Friis wrote:

Some of those models had no bass cut at all.

I've got one of those; the MD521 .. - were there ever 421's without a
switch as well?

The -2's didn't have it, the large Tüchel screws directly on to the
body.

D'uh, yes. I've actually got one of those myself

/Preben Friis

In article writes:

Can you enlighten me as to the function of the rolloff switches on my old
441 then? It has the M-S switch (5 position) but also has a small slide
switch on the body that seems to act as a lo-cut as well. Why two?

The slide switch isn't a low cut switch, it's called a "brilliance"
switch and it's sort of like a shelving equalizer boosting about 5 dB
above 1 kHz.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

In article writes:

The slide switch isn't a low cut switch, it's called a "brilliance"
switch and it's sort of like a shelving equalizer boosting about 5 dB
above 1 kHz.

I see, but, as it's a passive eq, isn't that the same as cutting below 1k,
if you see what I mean?

Sort, of, effectively, I guess, but that's not how it's intended to be
used. And if you're thinking that you can't have a boost with passive
components, only a cut, think about resonance.

I don't know what's in the networks in that mic, I only know that the
switches are there, and you're supposed to switch them to the
positions that make things sound better - even if that's "most off."



--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

(Mike Rivers) wrote in news:znr1071068870k@trad:


In article writes:

The slide switch isn't a low cut switch, it's called a "brilliance"
switch and it's sort of like a shelving equalizer boosting about 5
dB above 1 kHz.

I see, but, as it's a passive eq, isn't that the same as cutting
below 1k, if you see what I mean?

Sort, of, effectively, I guess, but that's not how it's intended to be
used. And if you're thinking that you can't have a boost with passive
components, only a cut, think about resonance.

I don't know what's in the networks in that mic, I only know that the
switches are there, and you're supposed to switch them to the
positions that make things sound better - even if that's "most off."


Thanks Mike, I must admit, that thinking the switch was a lo-cut, I put it
in by default when moving the mic to vocal/acoustic guitar duties from kick
drum. Time to play!