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-Question for John Atkinson-
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"John Atkinson" wrote
in message ups.com wrote: How can a product such as the "Shakti Hallographic Soundfield Optimizer" possibly improve the sound quality of an audio system? You tell me, Mr. Welch. Why does your magazine give positive reviews to such do-nothing frauds? When was that, Mr. Welch? Wow, ever see an editor go backwards that fast over such a major issue? ;-) |
#3
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Arny Krueger wrote:
"John Atkinson" wrote in message ups.com wrote: How can a product such as the "Shakti Hallographic Soundfield Optimizer" possibly improve the sound quality of an audio system?...Why does your magazine give positive reviews to _such_ (my underlining) do-nothing frauds? When was that, Mr. Welch? Wow, ever see an editor go backwards that fast over such a major issue? ;-) It appears you misunderstood both Mr. Welch's question and my response, Mr. Krueger. Mr. Welch was quite clearly referring to a purported Stereophile review of the "Shakti Hallographic Soundfield Optimizer." As I can't find any such review in my index, I was asking Mr. Welch for help in finding it. John Atkinson Editor, Stereophile |
#4
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"John Atkinson" wrote
in message oups.com Arny Krueger wrote: "John Atkinson" wrote in message ups.com wrote: How can a product such as the "Shakti Hallographic Soundfield Optimizer" possibly improve the sound quality of an audio system?...Why does your magazine give positive reviews to _such_ (my underlining) do-nothing frauds? When was that, Mr. Welch? Wow, ever see an editor go backwards that fast over such a major issue? ;-) It appears you misunderstood both Mr. Welch's question and my response, Mr. Krueger. Mr. Welch was quite clearly referring to a purported Stereophile review of the "Shakti Hallographic Soundfield Optimizer." As I can't find any such review in my index, I was asking Mr. Welch for help in finding it. Here's a little tip about reading English, John. Mr Welch qualified his statement with the word "such". That means that finding or not finding a review on a specific product is far from definitive. Odd that I'm being forced to give you practical lessons in reading rhetoric, John. Mini-strokes? |
#5
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On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 09:41:38 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
wrote: "John Atkinson" wrote in message roups.com Arny Krueger wrote: "John Atkinson" wrote in message ups.com wrote: How can a product such as the "Shakti Hallographic Soundfield Optimizer" possibly improve the sound quality of an audio system?...Why does your magazine give positive reviews to _such_ (my underlining) do-nothing frauds? When was that, Mr. Welch? Wow, ever see an editor go backwards that fast over such a major issue? ;-) It appears you misunderstood both Mr. Welch's question and my response, Mr. Krueger. Mr. Welch was quite clearly referring to a purported Stereophile review of the "Shakti Hallographic Soundfield Optimizer." As I can't find any such review in my index, I was asking Mr. Welch for help in finding it. Here's a little tip about reading English, John. Mr Welch qualified his statement with the word "such". That means that finding or not finding a review on a specific product is far from definitive. Odd that I'm being forced to give you practical lessons in reading rhetoric, John. Mini-strokes? Well, you certainly give lessons in debating trade tactics. "Mr. Welch" has learned well. |
#6
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So does that mean that I could criticize the magazine for something it
did not do and get away with it, just by using the 'such as' clause? I think not: The OP clearly implies that the magazine published an article on the quoted piece of gear.... regardless how much 'slippery' wording is used. |
#7
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"BD" wrote in message
ups.com So does that mean that I could criticize the magazine for something it did not do and get away with it, just by using the 'such as' clause? I think not: The OP clearly implies that the magazine published an article on the quoted piece of gear.... regardless how much 'slippery' wording is used. Hmm, truth is stranger than fiction, slippery wording, or what have you: http://www.stereophile.com/features/69/index2.html "Mpingo Discs are small, ebony discs that measure about 1 (5/8" in diameter and about 1/2" thick. They're meant to be placed face- (logo-) side down on turn-tables and all front-end electronics; eg, CD transports, DACs, preamps. Like all Shun Mook products, the Discs are directional. They cost $50 each, so you can buy a few to experiment with in your system and then buy a few more, which I know you'll do after hearing them. The Mpingo I use on the large, flat VTA adjuster knob on the Forsell Air Force One Mk.II gives an excellent effect; I've placed three of them in a triangle around the turntable's platter, tangent to the direction of platter spin. "On some turntables, it works better to orient the Mpingos in toward the spindle. We entertained a friend from another audio magazine the other day, and as I lifted the four Mpingos from the Forsell and then replaced them, he was in awe: With the Discs in place, the sound was richer and more extended, and all aspects of the soundstage reproduction were enhanced---you don't need gold-plated ears to hear the difference. "I've got a Mpingo on the top of my CAT preamp; I move it to the top of the Jadis JP 80 MC's chassis near the line-stage tubes when that sexy French preamp is in the system. (It becomes a strange-looking beast with its Mpingo and Ensemble Tubesox in place.) There are three Mpingos on top of the Timbre Technology digital processor---its case is rigid and damped by design, and it takes all three to make the difference here, although usually one is sufficient on electronics. I've also got a Mpingo slotted in between the twin pair of speaker binding posts on each Jadis JA 200, and move them to the same or similar positions when switching amps. *Please follow up on the URL above - the rest of this Atkinson-approved article just gets stranger and stranger and stranger... |
#8
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Mea Culpa! I confused the "Shakti Hallograph Soundfield Optimizer" with
the "Shakti Electromagnetic Stabilizer". This is akin to confusing the Green Bottle of "medicine" with the Blue Bottle of "medicine" at an old traveling "Medicine Show"; both are likely equally ineffective and fraudulent. Let me ask the question again: Mr. Atkinson, can you explain how a product such as the "Shakti Electromagnetic Stabilizer" could possibly improve the sound quality of an audio system? Why does your magazine give positive reviews (in vol. 19 no.2 and vol. 19 no.4, by J. Scull and B. Willis, respectively) to such do-nothing frauds? Is that clear enough, Mr. Atkinson? John Atkinson wrote: Arny Krueger wrote: "John Atkinson" wrote in message ups.com wrote: How can a product such as the "Shakti Hallographic Soundfield Optimizer" possibly improve the sound quality of an audio system?...Why does your magazine give positive reviews to _such_ (my underlining) do-nothing frauds? When was that, Mr. Welch? Wow, ever see an editor go backwards that fast over such a major issue? ;-) It appears you misunderstood both Mr. Welch's question and my response, Mr. Krueger. Mr. Welch was quite clearly referring to a purported Stereophile review of the "Shakti Hallographic Soundfield Optimizer." As I can't find any such review in my index, I was asking Mr. Welch for help in finding it. John Atkinson Editor, Stereophile |
#9
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Arny Krueger wrote: http://www.stereophile.com/features/69/index2.html This was published back in 1994, written by Jonathan Scull. I don't have a problem with a writer talking about how something that seems patently irrational to many of us affects their perception of music played back over their audio systems. The whole article is clearly subjective. I can't argue with what people say that they perceive. I don't see a single measurement there, and nothing that I would call misleading. Personally, I don't believe that the Mpingo disks do anything at all, but I don't have any problems with folks who don't agree with me. If they want to spend their money, God bless 'em. I particularly liked the last two sentences: "Beware of imitations that won't stand an A/B test!" intoned Mr. Ying. Bill usually doesn't say much, but when he does talk, he roars. -- Len Moskowitz PDAudio, Binaural Mics, Cables, DPA, M-Audio Core Sound http://www.stealthmicrophones.com Teaneck, New Jersey USA http://www.core-sound.com Tel: 201-801-0812, FAX: 201-801-0912 |
#10
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BD said to DebatingTradeBorg: So does that mean that I could criticize the magazine for something it did not do and get away with it, just by using the 'such as' clause? I think not: The OP clearly implies that the magazine published an article on the quoted piece of gear.... regardless how much 'slippery' wording is used. The "debating trade" is not recommended for sane persons. Please be cautious. |
#11
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Len Moskowitz said: I don't have a problem with a writer talking about how something that seems patently irrational to many of us affects their perception of music played back over their audio systems. The whole article is clearly subjective. I can't argue with what people say that they perceive. I don't see a single measurement there, and nothing that I would call misleading. Personally, I don't believe that the Mpingo disks do anything at all, but I don't have any problems with folks who don't agree with me. If they want to spend their money, God bless 'em. Talk like this will kill your induction into the aBxism priesthood, and it will likely get your Hive membership revoked. Also, if you want the Krooborg to recognize you as a sicicccncndcitits, you'll have to show the proper obeisance to religious authority. |
#12
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#13
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George Middius wrote: Talk like this will kill your induction into the aBxism priesthood, and it will likely get your Hive membership revoked. Also, if you want the Krooborg to recognize you as a sicicccncndcitits, you'll have to show the proper obeisance to religious authority. I'll take that as good-humored sarcasm. I understand and respect Arny's appreciation of the ABX methodology. I too appreciate it for objective, analytical parameter-based testing. To my mind, it just doesn't apply to subjective perceptions. And I don't have a beef with a very entertaining and informative magazine publishing subjective opinion articles. John Atkinson's tech measurements are reliable and informative. I've learned that our opinions about sound quality are similar, and I respect most of what he has to say. I can't say that for many of his writers, but that's okay -- I enjoy them as entertainment rather than as engineering or science. -- Len Moskowitz PDAudio, Binaural Mics, Cables, DPA, M-Audio Core Sound http://www.stealthmicrophones.com Teaneck, New Jersey USA http://www.core-sound.com Tel: 201-801-0812, FAX: 201-801-0912 |
#14
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John Atkinson wrote:
wrote: John Atkinson wrote: Arny Krueger wrote: "John Atkinson" wrote in message ups.com wrote: How can a product such as the "Shakti Hallographic Soundfield Optimizer" possibly improve the sound quality of an audio system?...Why does your magazine give positive reviews to _such_ (my underlining) do-nothing frauds? When was that, Mr. Welch? Wow, ever see an editor go backwards that fast over such a major issue? ;-) It appears you misunderstood both Mr. Welch's question and my response, Mr. Krueger. Mr. Welch was quite clearly referring to a purported Stereophile review of the "Shakti Hallographic Soundfield Optimizer." As I can't find any such review in my index, I was asking Mr. Welch for help in finding it. Mea Culpa! I confused the "Shakti Hallograph Soundfield Optimizer" with the "Shakti Electromagnetic Stabilizer". Or perhaps you were misled by James Randi's implication on his website that Wayne Donnelly's review of the "Hallographic Soundfield Optimizer" had appeared in Stereophile? If I were easily misled, Mr. Atkinson, I would be a loyal Stereophile reader. Do you see Randi everywhere, Mr. Atkinson? If I were a huckster and conman like yourself, an intelligent, persistent, hard-nosed sceptic like Randi would get under my skin, too. This is akin to confusing the Green Bottle of "medicine" with the Blue Bottle of "medicine" at an old traveling "Medicine Show"; both are likely equally ineffective and fraudulent. And you know that how, Mr. Welch? When did you try these devices for yourself? Which one? The Blue Bottle or the Green Bottle? Let me ask the question again: Mr. Atkinson, can you explain how a product such as the "Shakti Electromagnetic Stabilizer" could possibly improve the sound quality of an audio system? I have no idea, Mr. Welch. But that doesn't mean it can't have an effect, of course. You sound like an astrologist, Mr. Atkinson. Do you also believe in the Akashic record? Tarot cards? Tea leaves? Why does your magazine give positive reviews (in vol.19 no.2 and vol.19 no.4, by J. Scull and B. Willis, respectively) to such do-nothing frauds? Putting to one side precisely _how_ you came by your knowledge that the Shakti Stones are "do-nothing frauds," Mr. Welch, I commissioned reviews of the Shaktis from 2 reviewers, one of whom. Mr. Scull, is by hs own admission a subjectivist, the other of whom, Barry Willis, is an avowed skeptic. Imagine my surprise, therefore, when _both_ subjectivist and skeptic found that the Shakti devices had a positive audible effect on the sounds of their systems. Could it possibly be that Scull and Willis are right and you are wrong, Mr. Welch? A much more likely scenario, Mr. Atkinson, is that your reviewers are either deluded, incompetent and/or corrupt and cynical. John Atkinson Editor, Stereophile |
#16
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"John Atkinson" wrote in message oups.com... Arny Krueger wrote: "John Atkinson" wrote in message ups.com wrote: How can a product such as the "Shakti Hallographic Soundfield Optimizer" possibly improve the sound quality of an audio system?...Why does your magazine give positive reviews to _such_ (my underlining) do-nothing frauds? When was that, Mr. Welch? Wow, ever see an editor go backwards that fast over such a major issue? ;-) It appears you misunderstood both Mr. Welch's question and my response, Mr. Krueger. It appears you are parsing words. Mr. Welch asked 2 separate questions. How could the Shakti device do what it claimed, and why would your magazie review things that can't possibly do what is claimed of them? If your mag ever did a review of the Shakti device he mentioned, then you could answer as to why. If you didn't review it then why review other devices that are snake oil? Mr. Welch was quite clearly referring to a purported Stereophile review of the "Shakti Hallographic Soundfield Optimizer." As I can't find any such review in my index, I was asking Mr. Welch for help in finding it. See above and stop the stupid dancing. John Atkinson Editor, Stereophile |
#17
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"Arny Krueger" wrote in message ... "BD" wrote in message ups.com So does that mean that I could criticize the magazine for something it did not do and get away with it, just by using the 'such as' clause? I think not: The OP clearly implies that the magazine published an article on the quoted piece of gear.... regardless how much 'slippery' wording is used. Hmm, truth is stranger than fiction, slippery wording, or what have you: http://www.stereophile.com/features/69/index2.html "Mpingo Discs are small, ebony discs that measure about 1 (5/8" in diameter and about 1/2" thick. They're meant to be placed face- (logo-) side down on turn-tables and all front-end electronics; eg, CD transports, DACs, preamps. Like all Shun Mook products, the Discs are directional. They cost $50 each, so you can buy a few to experiment with in your system and then buy a few more, which I know you'll do after hearing them. The Mpingo I use on the large, flat VTA adjuster knob on the Forsell Air Force One Mk.II gives an excellent effect; I've placed three of them in a triangle around the turntable's platter, tangent to the direction of platter spin. "On some turntables, it works better to orient the Mpingos in toward the spindle. We entertained a friend from another audio magazine the other day, and as I lifted the four Mpingos from the Forsell and then replaced them, he was in awe: With the Discs in place, the sound was richer and more extended, and all aspects of the soundstage reproduction were enhanced---you don't need gold-plated ears to hear the difference. "I've got a Mpingo on the top of my CAT preamp; I move it to the top of the Jadis JP 80 MC's chassis near the line-stage tubes when that sexy French preamp is in the system. (It becomes a strange-looking beast with its Mpingo and Ensemble Tubesox in place.) There are three Mpingos on top of the Timbre Technology digital processor---its case is rigid and damped by design, and it takes all three to make the difference here, although usually one is sufficient on electronics. I've also got a Mpingo slotted in between the twin pair of speaker binding posts on each Jadis JA 200, and move them to the same or similar positions when switching amps. *Please follow up on the URL above - the rest of this Atkinson-approved article just gets stranger and stranger and stranger... It is one of the reasons I stopped subscribing in the first place. The only reason I get it now is because my wife re-subscribed in order to help with a fundraiser for my son's school. The Mpingo disk article, is a classic case of stupidity and fraud.. |
#18
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wrote
A much more likely scenario, Mr. Atkinson, is that your reviewers are either deluded, incompetent and/or corrupt and cynical. A possible scenario then, is that the reviewers perceived something you don't understand. Given the possible scenario you've pointed out, a certainty is that you're an asshole. |
#19
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#20
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surf said: A much more likely scenario, Mr. Atkinson, is that your reviewers are either deluded, incompetent and/or corrupt and cynical. A possible scenario then, is that the reviewers perceived something you don't understand. Given the possible scenario you've pointed out, a certainty is that you're an asshole. Now cut that out! If you don't watch out, joseph will hire himself a bully to lay you out. |
#21
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wrote: "Arny Krueger" wrote in message ... "BD" wrote in message ups.com The OP clearly implies that the magazine published an article on the quoted piece of gear.... regardless how much 'slippery' wording is used. Hmm, truth is stranger than fiction, slippery wording, or what have you: http://www.stereophile.com/features/69/index2.html The Mpingo disk article, is a classic case of stupidity and fraud. It appears you haven't read it, Mr. McKelvy. Because if you had've done, you would see that it contains strong opinions for but also _against_ the efficacy of the Mpingo discs. First we see Joseph Welch dissing Stereophile in this thread for a review that had actually appeared in TAS, then we have Arny Kreuger up to his old debating trade tricks, presenting part of a Web article as though it were the whole (and taking you in), and now here you are, dissing an article you don't appear to have read. Not a very good track record for those who claim to believe in Science, eh. John Atkinson Editor, Stereophile |
#22
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John Atkinson wrote: wrote: John Atkinson wrote: Arny Krueger wrote: "John Atkinson" wrote in message ups.com wrote: How can a product such as the "Shakti Hallographic Soundfield Optimizer" possibly improve the sound quality of an audio system?...Why does your magazine give positive reviews to _such_ (my underlining) do-nothing frauds? When was that, Mr. Welch? Wow, ever see an editor go backwards that fast over such a major issue? ;-) It appears you misunderstood both Mr. Welch's question and my response, Mr. Krueger. Mr. Welch was quite clearly referring to a purported Stereophile review of the "Shakti Hallographic Soundfield Optimizer." As I can't find any such review in my index, I was asking Mr. Welch for help in finding it. Mea Culpa! I confused the "Shakti Hallograph Soundfield Optimizer" with the "Shakti Electromagnetic Stabilizer". Or perhaps you were misled by James Randi's implication on his website that Wayne Donnelly's review of the "Hallographic Soundfield Optimizer" had appeared in Stereophile? This is akin to confusing the Green Bottle of "medicine" with the Blue Bottle of "medicine" at an old traveling "Medicine Show"; both are likely equally ineffective and fraudulent. And you know that how, Mr. Welch? When did you try these devices for yourself? Let me ask the question again: Mr. Atkinson, can you explain how a product such as the "Shakti Electromagnetic Stabilizer" could possibly improve the sound quality of an audio system? I have no idea, Mr. Welch. But that doesn't mean it can't have an effect, of course. Why does your magazine give positive reviews (in vol.19 no.2 and vol.19 no.4, by J. Scull and B. Willis, respectively) to such do-nothing frauds? Putting to one side precisely _how_ you came by your knowledge that the Shakti Stones are "do-nothing frauds," Mr. Welch, I commissioned reviews of the Shaktis from 2 reviewers, one of whom. Mr. Scull, is by hs own admission a subjectivist, the other of whom, Barry Willis, is an avowed skeptic. Imagine my surprise, therefore, when _both_ subjectivist and skeptic found that the Shakti devices had a positive audible effect on the sounds of their systems. Could it possibly be that Scull and Willis are right and you are wrong, Mr. Welch? I just sped through the Willis article and I can't find anywhere where he says they work. He spends a lot of time discussing cultures and open mindedness and that he isn't saying they don't work... just that they didn't work for him in the 20 minutes he spent listening to 'em at WCES. Am I missing something? BTW... if Barry Willis is an avowed skeptic than Arny Krueger is most personable character on usenet. ScottW |
#23
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"Arny Krueger" wrote in message ... "BD" wrote in message ups.com So does that mean that I could criticize the magazine for something it did not do and get away with it, just by using the 'such as' clause? I think not: The OP clearly implies that the magazine published an article on the quoted piece of gear.... regardless how much 'slippery' wording is used. Hmm, truth is stranger than fiction, slippery wording, or what have you: http://www.stereophile.com/features/69/index2.html "Mpingo Discs are small, ebony discs that measure about 1 (5/8" in diameter and about 1/2" thick. They're meant to be placed face- (logo-) side down on turn-tables and all front-end electronics; eg, CD transports, DACs, preamps. Like all Shun Mook products, the Discs are directional. They cost $50 each, so you can buy a few to experiment with in your system and then buy a few more, which I know you'll do after hearing them. The Mpingo I use on the large, flat VTA adjuster knob on the Forsell Air Force One Mk.II gives an excellent effect; I've placed three of them in a triangle around the turntable's platter, tangent to the direction of platter spin. "On some turntables, it works better to orient the Mpingos in toward the spindle. We entertained a friend from another audio magazine the other day, and as I lifted the four Mpingos from the Forsell and then replaced them, he was in awe: With the Discs in place, the sound was richer and more extended, and all aspects of the soundstage reproduction were enhanced---you don't need gold-plated ears to hear the difference. "I've got a Mpingo on the top of my CAT preamp; I move it to the top of the Jadis JP 80 MC's chassis near the line-stage tubes when that sexy French preamp is in the system. (It becomes a strange-looking beast with its Mpingo and Ensemble Tubesox in place.) There are three Mpingos on top of the Timbre Technology digital processor---its case is rigid and damped by design, and it takes all three to make the difference here, although usually one is sufficient on electronics. I've also got a Mpingo slotted in between the twin pair of speaker binding posts on each Jadis JA 200, and move them to the same or similar positions when switching amps. *Please follow up on the URL above - the rest of this Atkinson-approved article just gets stranger and stranger and stranger... As usual, Arny, you are being disingenuous. You don't reveal that what you are quoting from is a man's column, not a review. Nor do you reveal that that man's column's are generally *NOT* viewed by the average Stereophile reader as a review, but rather as the musings including personal idiosyncracies, of the columnist. What self-respecting columnist, with his own byline, would allow his columns to be edited. And what self-respecting editor would attempt to do so. ARNY, there is a difference between a review and a column. AND THAT GOES FOR YOU OTHERS HERE who keep on insisting that Stereophile endorse all sorts of audio tweaks and stuff...it has all been done in one man's column. Not in reviews. Can't you be honest even with yourselves? |
#24
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"Len Moskowitz" wrote in message ... I don't have a problem with a writer talking about how something that seems patently irrational to many of us affects their perception of music played back over their audio systems. The whole article is clearly subjective. I can't argue with what people say that they perceive. I don't see a single measurement there, and nothing that I would call misleading. Or indeed anything approaching a disclaimer that it IS only the unsubstantiated opinion of one person. So *everything* in that magazine should be viewed with great suspicion by the non technical readers. MrT. |
#25
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"John Atkinson" wrote in message oups.com... Let me ask the question again: Mr. Atkinson, can you explain how a product such as the "Shakti Electromagnetic Stabilizer" could possibly improve the sound quality of an audio system? I have no idea, Mr. Welch. Truth at last! But that doesn't mean it can't have an effect, of course. So why not provide some objective proof. Maybe because you can't? Why does your magazine give positive reviews (in vol.19 no.2 and vol.19 no.4, by J. Scull and B. Willis, respectively) to such do-nothing frauds? Putting to one side precisely _how_ you came by your knowledge that the Shakti Stones are "do-nothing frauds," Mr. Welch, I commissioned reviews of the Shaktis from 2 reviewers, one of whom. Mr. Scull, is by hs own admission a subjectivist, the other of whom, Barry Willis, is an avowed skeptic. Imagine my surprise, therefore, when _both_ subjectivist and skeptic found that the Shakti devices had a positive audible effect on the sounds of their systems. Could it possibly be that Scull and Willis are right and you are wrong, Mr. Welch? If they were, they would have provided proof. Since they didn't, you can assume they are just writing words for money. And those words are usually what is asked for, or what is expected by the publisher. MrT. |
#26
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" wrote in message ink.net... The odds of them being right are roughly the same as Bush serving a 3rd term as President. I'd rate that a Billion times more likely. He already has a record of fixing elections and bypassing the constitution. The others have no record of proof, other than by assertion. (just like GWB come to think of it :-) MrT. |
#27
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Mr.T said: Could it possibly be that Scull and Willis are right and you are wrong, Mr. Welch? If they were, they would have provided proof. I can see why you hide behind an anonym. Nobody as dumb as you wants his real identity known. |
#28
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On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 23:17:36 GMT, "
wrote: It is one of the reasons I stopped subscribing in the first place. The only reason I get it now is because my wife re-subscribed in order to help with a fundraiser for my son's school. The Mpingo disk article, is a classic case of stupidity and fraud.. The fact that you have spent good money to subscribe to a magazine that you detest is the classic case of stupidity. Mr. Atkinson is laughing all the way to the bank. |
#29
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"George M. Middius" cmndr [underscore] george [at] comcast [dot] net wrote in message ... I can see why you hide behind an anonym. Nobody as dumb as you wants his real identity known. Actually it is far more stupid to expose your ignorance openly to the world as you do. MrT. |
#30
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ScottW wrote: John Atkinson wrote: wrote: Mr. Atkinson, can you explain how a product such as the "Shakti Electromagnetic Stabilizer" could possibly improve the sound quality of an audio system? I have no idea, Mr. Welch. But that doesn't mean it can't have an effect, of course. Why does your magazine give positive reviews (in vol.19 no.2 and vol.19 no.4, by J. Scull and B. Willis, respectively) to such do-nothing frauds? Putting to one side precisely _how_ you came by your knowledge that the Shakti Stones are "do-nothing frauds," Mr. Welch, I commissioned reviews of the Shaktis from 2 reviewers, one of whom. Mr. Scull, is by hs own admission a subjectivist, the other of whom, Barry Willis, is an avowed skeptic. Imagine my surprise, therefore, when _both_ subjectivist and skeptic found that the Shakti devices had a positive audible effect on the sounds of their systems. Could it possibly be that Scull and Willis are right and you are wrong, Mr. Welch? I just sped through the Willis article and I can't find anywhere where he says they work. He spends a lot of time discussing cultures and open mindedness and that he isn't saying they don't work... just that they didn't work for him in the 20 minutes he spent listening to 'em at WCES. Am I missing something? I believe you are talking about Barry's report on Mpingo discs, ScottW, whereas Mr. Welch was asking about the Shakti Stones. John Atkinson Editor, Stereophile |
#31
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"John Atkinson" wrote
in message oups.com then we have Arny Kreuger up to his old debating trade tricks, presenting part of a Web article as though it were the whole (and taking you in), Here we have John Atkinson being as deceptive as ever. I cited the entire article and provided the following advice which Atkinson cheerfully and deceptively removed prior when quoting, so he could appear to be justified while whining about its absence: "Arny Krueger" wrote in message ... http://www.stereophile.com/features/69/index2.html "*Please follow up on the URL above - the rest of this Atkinson-approved article just gets stranger and stranger and stranger..." Apparently when I ask readers to read "the rest of the article", in Atkinson's mind this means telling people to ignore most of the article. Talk about truth being stranger than fiction, we have here another example of "Atkinson truth". |
#32
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"Harry Lavo" wrote in message
news "Arny Krueger" wrote in message ... Hmm, truth is stranger than fiction, slippery wording, or what have you: http://www.stereophile.com/features/69/index2.html "Mpingo Discs are small, ebony discs that measure about 1 (5/8" in diameter and about 1/2" thick. They're meant to be placed face- (logo-) side down on turn-tables and all front-end electronics; eg, CD transports, DACs, preamps. Like all Shun Mook products, the Discs are directional. They cost $50 each, so you can buy a few to experiment with in your system and then buy a few more, which I know you'll do after hearing them. The Mpingo I use on the large, flat VTA adjuster knob on the Forsell Air Force One Mk.II gives an excellent effect; I've placed three of them in a triangle around the turntable's platter, tangent to the direction of platter spin. "On some turntables, it works better to orient the Mpingos in toward the spindle. We entertained a friend from another audio magazine the other day, and as I lifted the four Mpingos from the Forsell and then replaced them, he was in awe: With the Discs in place, the sound was richer and more extended, and all aspects of the soundstage reproduction were enhanced---you don't need gold-plated ears to hear the difference. "I've got a Mpingo on the top of my CAT preamp; I move it to the top of the Jadis JP 80 MC's chassis near the line-stage tubes when that sexy French preamp is in the system. (It becomes a strange-looking beast with its Mpingo and Ensemble Tubesox in place.) There are three Mpingos on top of the Timbre Technology digital processor---its case is rigid and damped by design, and it takes all three to make the difference here, although usually one is sufficient on electronics. I've also got a Mpingo slotted in between the twin pair of speaker binding posts on each Jadis JA 200, and move them to the same or similar positions when switching amps. *Please follow up on the URL above - the rest of this Atkinson-approved article just gets stranger and stranger and stranger... As usual, Arny, you are being disingenuous. You don't reveal that what you are quoting from is a man's column, not a review. I provided a link to the *entire article*. Pardon me for presuming that your attention span is still long enough to read all of it, Harry. Nor do you reveal that that man's column's are generally *NOT* viewed by the average Stereophile reader as a review, but rather as the musings including personal idiosyncracies, of the columnist. Anybody who can follow a link and read the entire article now knows that. Why in the 21st century do I need to fully quote an entire article on Usenet? What self-respecting columnist, with his own byline, would allow his columns to be edited. And what self-respecting editor would attempt to do so. Sorry Harry, editing rags like Stereophile is something that's not my job. I have edited technical works, and my readers have allowed me to have a free hand, probably because they know that: (1) They aren't perfect (2) There is no such thing as something that one man can do that another man can't in some sense improve on. ARNY, there is a difference between a review and a column. AND THAT GOES FOR YOU OTHERS HERE who keep on insisting that Stereophile endorse all sorts of audio tweaks and stuff...it has all been done in one man's column. Not in reviews. Can't you be honest even with yourselves? Harry, you're whining again. Grow up! ;-( |
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"John Atkinson" wrote
in message oups.com Mr. Welch, I commissioned reviews of the Shaktis from 2 reviewers, one of whom. Mr. Scull, is by hs own admission a subjectivist, the other of whom, Barry Willis, is an avowed skeptic. Imagine my surprise, therefore, when _both_ subjectivist and skeptic found that the Shakti devices had a positive audible effect on the sounds of their systems. Could it possibly be that Scull and Willis are right and you are wrong, Mr. Welch? John, it just goes to show that your idea of a skeptic corresponds to most people's idea of a born sucker. The mind boggles at the idea of Stereophile publishing a review of Shatki devices written by say, David Clark or for that part, Richard Clark. |
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wrote in message
oups.com A much more likely scenario, Mr. Atkinson, is that your reviewers are either deluded, incompetent and/or corrupt and cynical. I've learned the merit of the old saw about "Why presume malice when simple incompetence will suffice?". |
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"surf" wrote in message
news wrote A much more likely scenario, Mr. Atkinson, is that your reviewers are either deluded, incompetent and/or corrupt and cynical. A possible scenario then, is that the reviewers perceived something you don't understand. Actually, they perceive audio illusions that are very well-understood. |
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"Mr.T" MrT@home wrote in message
" wrote in message ink.net... The odds of them being right are roughly the same as Bush serving a 3rd term as President. I'd rate that a Billion times more likely. He already has a record of fixing elections and bypassing the constitution. Hmm, you do have a point there! ;-) |
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Mr.T said: I can see why you hide behind an anonym. Nobody as dumb as you wants his real identity known. Actually it is far more stupid to expose your ignorance openly to the world as you do. I guess in your circles, grinding out lame IKYABWAIs passes for smarts. |
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"George M. Middius" cmndr [underscore] george [at] comcast
[dot] net wrote in message Mr.T said: I can see why you hide behind an anonym. Nobody as dumb as you wants his real identity known. Actually it is far more stupid to expose your ignorance openly to the world as you do. I guess in your circles, grinding out lame IKYABWAIs passes for smarts. Grinding out lame IKYABWAIs clearly passes for smarts in your group, George. As usual, you can't see it, or are too big of a hypocrite to admit it. Right now you've got some of the biggest boobs in the history of Usenet on your team. Quite a slide from the days of Bamborough licking your chops, eh? |
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Arny Krueger wrote: "Harry Lavo" wrote in message news "Arny Krueger" wrote in message ... Hmm, truth is stranger than fiction, slippery wording, or what have you: http://www.stereophile.com/features/69/index2.html ...Please follow up on the URL above - the rest of this Atkinson-approved article just gets stranger and stranger and stranger... As usual, Arny, you are being disingenuous. You don't reveal that what you are quoting from is a man's column, not a review. I provided a link to the *entire article*. No, Mr. Krueger, your link takes the reader to _page 3_ of the Web reprint, _not_ the entire article. This is what I was referring to in the posting to which to you seem to have taken exception. The correct URL, which takes readers to the beginning of the full reprint, which includes an introductory comment by myself, is http://www.stereophile.com/features/69 . John Atkinson Editor, Stereophile |
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"John Atkinson" wrote
in message ups.com Arny Krueger wrote: "Harry Lavo" wrote in message news "Arny Krueger" wrote in message ... Hmm, truth is stranger than fiction, slippery wording, or what have you: http://www.stereophile.com/features/69/index2.html ...Please follow up on the URL above - the rest of this Atkinson-approved article just gets stranger and stranger and stranger... As usual, Arny, you are being disingenuous. You don't reveal that what you are quoting from is a man's column, not a review. I provided a link to the *entire article*. No, Mr. Krueger, your link takes the reader to _page 3_ of the Web reprint, _not_ the entire article. Hair splitting, anyone? I guess Atkinson wants people to believe that his site is so badly designed that there's no way to link the rest of the article from the page which I pointed to, being that it contains the text I quoted. Even though I keep tripping Atkinson up in childish deceptions, someone at least semi-competent did the site design for his ragazine. |
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