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Andre Jute Andre Jute is offline
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Default The edufication of Graham "Poopie" Stevenson

Poopie Stevenson says he came to RAT to learn. He won't learn anything
by abusing as morons the leading men, who've all done many times what
Poopie is trying to learn to do,. Yet that is what Poopie has been
doing for the four or five years since he arrived on RAT promising to
be "on your arse". RAT, for those who don't know, is a thermionic tube/
valve conference.

Since no one has yet told Poopie that the way to learn to do what we
do is not by abusing us, let me be the first. But let us not just be
negative, in the style of Poopie himself, or his fellow-traveller,
Booger Krueger, or the late unlamented Stinko Pinkerton. Let us be
positive.

Let us offer Poopie the education he seeks. Now, the problem with
Poopie, as with a lot of other diplomaed quarterwits who grandly style
themselves "engineers" when they're really not very bright but very
jumped-up technicians, is that they have without thought learned so
many counterproductive tenets (that's a euphemism; the non-PC may read
"prejudices") that they will never build a good tube amp (or a good
anything) unless these deeply held beliefs, misrepresented by the
diplomaed quarterwits as "facts", are broken down and deleted for
ever.

So, before Poopie can achieve his heart's desire of becoming a tube
designeer, he must first agree to these truths, which he may find
shocking:

1. THD doesn't predict whether an amplifier will sound right or not.
THD is today a totally irrelevant parameter.

2. IMD, while theoretically a more useful parameter than THD, is still
too coarse to predict the quality of an amplifier.

3. The damping factor (DF) really doesn't mean **** because speakers
are too variable.

4. Ears, educated at live concerts, are better measuring instruments
than anything B&K ever built.

5. Blind listening tests with qualified panels are the final arbiters
of audio quality whereas instruments and normative assumptions (1-3
above -- a normative assumption is "what should be" rather than "what
is") can never be the final arbiters.

6. NFB is not the answer.

7. Psychology is one of the answers.

7. Residual harmonics of 2HD are harmless up to half or three-quarters
of one per cent. Third and higher harmonic distortion is destructive
of quality sound even at minuscule fractions of one per cent.

8. There is no such thing as "SE sound". The so-called "SE sound" is
made by Class A1 triodes operating with very little or zero negative
feedback. It doesn't matter if those tubes are operated single-ended
or in push-pull, and it doesn't matter whether they are real real
triodes or triode-tied pentodes. It doesn't even matter particularly
whether they are DHT; the distinctive, pleasing purity of that sound
comes from Class A1 and the absence of third and higher harmonics
which accompany the absence of NFB.

9. The loudspeaker is responsible for 95% of sound quality.

10. The best-sounding loudspeakers are point sources or faux point
sources like fullrange horns and the Quad ESL63 and its successors.
Multiple cones are the work of the devil.

Once Poopie has mastered the first ten commandments, we can continue
with the rest of his education.

Andre Jute
Visit Jute on Amps at http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/
"wonderfully well written and reasoned information
for the tube audio constructor"
John Broskie TubeCAD & GlassWare
"an unbelievably comprehensive web site
containing vital gems of wisdom"
Stuart Perry Hi-Fi News & Record Review

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Richard Crowley Richard Crowley is offline
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Default The edufication of Graham "Poopie" Stevenson

Discussion of other users is OT for these newsgroups.
Cease and desist or be plonked.


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Laurence Payne Laurence Payne is offline
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Default The edufication of Graham "Poopie" Stevenson

On Fri, 18 Jan 2008 12:54:20 -0800, "Richard Crowley"
wrote:

Discussion of other users is OT for these newsgroups.
Cease and desist or be plonked.


How's the weather on your planet?
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Richard Crowley Richard Crowley is offline
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Default The edufication of Graham "Poopie" Stevenson

"Laurence Payne" wrote ...
"Richard Crowley" wrote:
Discussion of other users is OT for these newsgroups.
Cease and desist or be plonked.


How's the weather on your planet?


Plonking works great here on my planet.
Sorry to hear about yours.


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Trevor Wilson[_2_] Trevor Wilson[_2_] is offline
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Default The edufication of Graham "Poopie" Stevenson


"Andre Jute" wrote in message
...
Poopie Stevenson says he came to RAT to learn. He won't learn anything
by abusing as morons the leading men, who've all done many times what
Poopie is trying to learn to do,. Yet that is what Poopie has been
doing for the four or five years since he arrived on RAT promising to
be "on your arse". RAT, for those who don't know, is a thermionic tube/
valve conference.

Since no one has yet told Poopie that the way to learn to do what we
do is not by abusing us, let me be the first. But let us not just be
negative, in the style of Poopie himself, or his fellow-traveller,
Booger Krueger, or the late unlamented Stinko Pinkerton. Let us be
positive.

Let us offer Poopie the education he seeks. Now, the problem with
Poopie, as with a lot of other diplomaed quarterwits who grandly style
themselves "engineers" when they're really not very bright but very
jumped-up technicians, is that they have without thought learned so
many counterproductive tenets (that's a euphemism; the non-PC may read
"prejudices") that they will never build a good tube amp (or a good
anything) unless these deeply held beliefs, misrepresented by the
diplomaed quarterwits as "facts", are broken down and deleted for
ever.

So, before Poopie can achieve his heart's desire of becoming a tube
designeer, he must first agree to these truths, which he may find
shocking:

1. THD doesn't predict whether an amplifier will sound right or not.
THD is today a totally irrelevant parameter.


**Bull****. THD can tell us a large amount. If that THD is above the audible
threshold, it most certainly is relevant.


2. IMD, while theoretically a more useful parameter than THD, is still
too coarse to predict the quality of an amplifier.


**Nope. See above.


3. The damping factor (DF) really doesn't mean **** because speakers
are too variable.


**Wrong. Though I agree DF is a silly parameter. Output impedance (a 20Hz -
20kHz graph) is very informative.


4. Ears, educated at live concerts, are better measuring instruments
than anything B&K ever built.


**Wrong.


5. Blind listening tests with qualified panels are the final arbiters
of audio quality whereas instruments and normative assumptions (1-3
above -- a normative assumption is "what should be" rather than "what
is") can never be the final arbiters.


**Wrong. Instruments can assist us in eliminating products which are clearly
broken or badly designed.


6. NFB is not the answer.


**I have some shattering news for you Mr Jute: ALL amplifiers utilise NFB
for linearisation. EVERY SINGLE ONE! NO exceptions.


7. Psychology is one of the answers.


**Finally, we agree on something. Many people choose a product, based on
delusion.


7. Residual harmonics of 2HD are harmless up to half or three-quarters
of one per cent. Third and higher harmonic distortion is destructive
of quality sound even at minuscule fractions of one per cent.


**ANY audible distortion is destructive. Tell me about how harmful the 3rd
harmonic of (say) 7kHz is. Now tell me how harmful the 2nd harmonic of 7kHz
is. Your statement is silly and poorly thought through. Whilst 2nd harmonic
distortion *may* be less objecionable than higher orders, if it is audible,
it needs to be elminated.



8. There is no such thing as "SE sound". The so-called "SE sound" is
made by Class A1 triodes operating with very little or zero negative
feedback.


**ALL amplifiers utilise NFB. EVERY SINGLE ONE. Including SETs.

It doesn't matter if those tubes are operated single-ended
or in push-pull,


**Yes, it does. PP eliminates even order distortion products, allows far
better load tolerance and provides a generally far superior result.

and it doesn't matter whether they are real real
triodes or triode-tied pentodes. It doesn't even matter particularly
whether they are DHT; the distinctive, pleasing purity of that sound
comes from Class A1 and the absence of third and higher harmonics
which accompany the absence of NFB.


**Repeat after me: ALL AMPLIFIERS UTILISE NFB FOR LINEARISATION. EVERY
SINGLE ONE. Keep repeating those words, 'till you understand.


9. The loudspeaker is responsible for 95% of sound quality.


**That would depend on how bad the amplifier, source and room conditions
are. It is simply impossible to put a value on such things. For instance, if
one is using a pair of Quad ESLs in a suitably anechoic environment, the
exceptionally low distortion of those speakers will allow the high
distortion and poor output impedance character of a SET amplifier to be
instantly recognisable.


10. The best-sounding loudspeakers are point sources or faux point
sources like fullrange horns and the Quad ESL63 and its successors.
Multiple cones are the work of the devil.


**Nonsense. I suggest you read some of the work from D'Appolito, Dunlavy and
others. You may gain more understanding of such things. Having said that,
the ESL63s and their descendents are remarkable products.


Once Poopie has mastered the first ten commandments, we can continue
with the rest of his education.


**It seems that it is YOU who needs the education. You displayed remarkable
ignorance in your post.

Trevor Wilson




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Tynan AgviŠr Tynan AgviŠr is offline
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Default The edufication of Graham "Poopie" Stevenson

"Richard Crowley" wrote in news:5vchvtF1lmidsU1
@mid.individual.net:

Discussion of other users is OT for these newsgroups.
Cease and desist or be plonked.



Are you kin to Aleister?

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Eeyore Eeyore is offline
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Default The edufication of Graham "Poopie" Stevenson



Trevor Wilson wrote:

"Andre Jute" wrote in message

1. THD doesn't predict whether an amplifier will sound right or not.
THD is today a totally irrelevant parameter.


**Bull****. THD can tell us a large amount. If that THD is above the audible
threshold, it most certainly is relevant.


And especially when it's high harmonic and odd order THD.

It's unfortunate perhaps that no agreed weighting method exists for comparing
the harmonic content of the distortion.

Graham

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