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#1
Posted to rec.audio.car
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This Group is sadly borring....
Come on guys! This not the RAC I knew and loved 15 years ago.
IASCA's dead. Alpine has stopped putting advanced parametric EQ's and time-alignment features on their decks. People ONLY seem to care about integrating their iPod's substandard MP3 quality music with their substandard sounding (OK, they have gotten much better over the years) factory systems. GOD FORBID you tarnish the seamless beauty of your new car's elegant dashboard with an "aftermarket deck" (said with a distainful tone). Is it truly a trade-off: thousands of songs at your fingertips vs. concert hall quality sound? Can you have both? I don't see why not. It can be done. There is basically NOTHING happening in this once venerable Usenet group. I remember when the "gods" like Manville Smith, Matt Ion, Mark Zarella, Ian Bjorhovde, and others dispensed wisdom on a daily basis and the ultimate goal of a "concert hall on wheels" was considered the ultimate nirvana and endlessly discussed and debated. What's happened? I think it primarily boils down to the fact that people today are less likely to mess with their integrated dashboards, and that factory systems have improved dramatically. Add to that the fact that people now consider 128 kbps to be "quality sound", where's the need to improve imaging and staging when those subtle sonic cues are no longer to be found in the music. I mean, if you think 128 kbps is "as good as it gets", you will never hear the difference between good speakers, and incredible speakers. Well, I still care and I still strive for better and better sound in my car. I can HONESTLY say that the system in my car sounds better than ANY system I have ever had (and I competed in IASCA, and did pretty well, in the mid 90's). Quality aftermarket speakers today truly sound incredible, as do today's amplifiers and head-units. But it's the speakers of today that REALLY impress me. The tightness and clarity of my Alpine Type R 6.5" midbass speakers STILL amaze me nearly every day, and I've had them for over a year now (but they do need TONS of power, almost like a subwoofer, 150 watts RMS just to the midbass drivers, another 50 to the tweeters). I'm sure recent subwoofer technology changes (like incredibly increased Xmax figures) have something to do with these incredible midbass drivers. The point is that car audio IS still improving, you just have to know where to look. I don't think I will EVER stop improving my car's sound system (for that matter, I'm sure I won't ever stop improving my home theater). But it's sad to see so little happening in this group because I have ALWAYS thought car audio far more interesting than home audio. I mean, any rich guy can go out and spend $50,000 on some Krell, Audio Note, Lamm, Goldmund, etc. gear and have fantastic sound in their home, no problem. But the sonic challanges of the car make EVERY car audio system different and unique. That's what makes this hobby great. That is what I fell in love with many years ago, the desire to have a sound system in my car that equalled (and sometimes surpassed) my home system. It is easy to create great sound in a large, square room. The fun is creating that same sound in a cramped environment full of sonic challanges. Anyway, I felt like ranting. Hell, nothing else was happening, right? Anyway, it's a little sad. I saw it happening 10 years ago with the death of IASCA. I knew even WAY BACK THEN times, they were a changin'. MOSFET Ian D. Bjorhovde |
#2
Posted to rec.audio.car
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This Group is sadly borring....
Ian Bjorhovde didn't write any of that, I just accidentily pasted his name
there. Sorry Ian. MOSFET Ian D. Bjorhovde |
#3
Posted to rec.audio.car
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This Group is sadly borring....
Well, since you're bored... }:-)
I'll have you know that some of us who insist upon using mp3 players do still understand that the quality isn't the best - but 128kbps?! I haven't ripped or downloaded anything with that low of a quality since college, man! The lowest bit-rate I use on my Creative Labs Zen V Plus is 256kbps - and that's only because it's old music that I've been too lazy to re- rip or re-purchase. The iPod, in general, can kiss my ass. I have an 8GB solid-state drive, an FM tuner, a microphone, line-in capabilities, a 12-band equalizer, and an OS that doesn't drain the battery when the unit is powered off for the exact same price as an 8GB iPod. The only thing that keeps me from building and integrating a full-on vehicular PC with absolutely top-notch (aftermarket) deck and the best speakers available is the fact that I have no income to spare. So, what I've done is taken a look at the options available to me with the means I have, and gone forth - not looking back or scrimping and saving for years until I can afford the best equipment. Eventually, I'll be able to afford to go out and buy a deck like the one I've been drooling over for months, now: http://www.crutchfield.com/p_105KDAV...44.html?tp=448 Until then, I'm fairly happy with what I have: http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2462751 To bring this around for you, I find that until I can simply go and buy what I want: I'm building better boxes, to better the sound of the sub I have. I'm learning the the output voltage of a device is it's defining quality through my system. I'm thinking of small quirky things I can do/build for little expense (remember my ashtray lcd temp. readout?). I'm making the best with what I have. ~Mister.Lull ...........well, you said there was nothing going on... :-) On Apr 1, 9:46*pm, "MOSFET" wrote: Come on guys! *This not the RAC I knew and loved 15 years ago. IASCA's dead. *Alpine has stopped putting advanced parametric EQ's and time-alignment features on their decks. *People ONLY seem to care about integrating their iPod's substandard MP3 quality music with their substandard sounding (OK, they have gotten much better over the years) factory systems. *GOD FORBID you tarnish the seamless beauty of your new car's elegant dashboard with an "aftermarket deck" (said with a distainful tone). Is it truly a trade-off: thousands of songs at your fingertips vs. concert hall quality sound? *Can you have both? *I don't see why not. *It can be done. There is basically NOTHING happening in this once venerable Usenet group. *I remember when the "gods" like Manville Smith, Matt Ion, Mark Zarella, *Ian Bjorhovde, and others dispensed wisdom on a daily basis and the ultimate goal of a "concert hall on wheels" was considered the ultimate nirvana and endlessly discussed and debated. What's happened? *I think it primarily boils down to the fact that people today are less likely to mess with their integrated dashboards, and that factory systems have improved dramatically. *Add to that the fact that people now consider 128 kbps to be "quality sound", where's the need to improve imaging and staging when those subtle sonic cues are no longer to be found in the music. *I mean, if you think 128 kbps is "as good as it gets", you will never hear the difference between good speakers, and incredible speakers. Well, I still care and I still strive for better and better sound in my car. I can HONESTLY say that the system in my car sounds better than ANY system I have ever had (and I competed in IASCA, and did pretty well, in the mid 90's). *Quality aftermarket speakers today truly sound incredible, as do today's amplifiers and head-units. *But it's the speakers of today that REALLY impress me. *The tightness and clarity of my Alpine Type R 6.5" midbass speakers STILL amaze me nearly every day, and I've had them for over a year now (but they do need TONS of power, almost like a subwoofer, 150 watts RMS just to the midbass drivers, another 50 to the tweeters). *I'm sure recent subwoofer technology changes (like incredibly increased Xmax figures) have something to do with these incredible midbass drivers. The point is that car audio IS still improving, you just have to know where to look. *I don't think I will EVER stop improving my car's sound system (for that matter, I'm sure I won't ever stop improving my home theater). But it's sad to see so little happening in this group because I have ALWAYS thought car audio far more interesting than home audio. * I mean, any rich guy can go out and spend $50,000 on some Krell, Audio Note, Lamm, Goldmund, etc. gear and have fantastic sound in their home, no problem. *But the sonic challanges of the car make EVERY car audio system different and unique. That's what makes this hobby great. *That is what I fell in love with many years ago, the desire to have a sound system in my car that equalled (and sometimes surpassed) my home system. *It is easy to create great sound in a large, square room. *The fun is creating that same sound in a cramped environment full of sonic challanges. Anyway, I felt like ranting. *Hell, nothing else was happening, right? Anyway, it's a little sad. *I saw it happening 10 years ago with the death of IASCA. *I knew even WAY BACK THEN times, they were a changin'. MOSFET Ian D. Bjorhovde |
#4
Posted to rec.audio.car
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This Group is sadly borring....
Yes, Lull, you sound very much like me. I don't have endless means so I,
like you, make due with what I have and save my money until I can afford what I consider adequate. Fortunately, quality amplifiers seem to work forever so there has not been a need to replace my four amps in over 10 years (oh, other than upgrading my sub amp to a Class D model, a wonderful Alpine MRV-850D I believe is the model number). You, Lull, are definately the exception to the rule when I view out over the vast car audio landscape. You, like me, continue to tweak and upgrade by hook or by crook. Many upgrades are subtle changes to the car's electrical system, or speaker positioning tweaks that cost nothing. Other upgrades cost very little as well. And the large upgrades require a degree of savings because, like you, I'm not going to compromise with crap. But the point I was making is that there seems very few of us today. And yes, I know, I CERTAINLY don't use 128kbps in my 8 gig Sansa. Everything is 256kbps, with the exception of a few songs which are 192kbps. But as you well know, even at 256kbps, certain subtle sonic cues are lost from the original CD. As you know no doubt know (I'm sure more intricately than I do) that the nature of compression supresses sounds that may not be audible, BUT ARE STILL THERE. It is these incredibly delicate sonic cues that when played through a VERY good system add depth, width, and life to the music that is lost even when compressed at 256kbps. You cannot argue this fact. I have heard it many times when comparing CD's vs. music compressed at even the highest bandwidth. This goes to an entirely different debate often heard and lamented on those Audiophile groups, the apparent backward trend society has moved regarding SQ. There was the steady march forward: 78's, 45's, 33 1/3 record albums (black round discs made of vinal compounds for anyone younger than 30), then cassette tapes and ultimately CD's. We then saw future advancements like HDCD which promissed TRUE multichannel sound (unlike quadrophonic, an interesting, but ultimately disapointing experiment in the early 70's) and increased bandwidth! (beyond the 20hz-20kHz we all became conditioned to with CD's) which held the promise of a recording that captured entirely ALL the sonic attributes of a live performance (although the human animal, it's said, cannot hear frequencies above 20kHz, we are certainly aware they are there and it is one of the subtle clues we use when determining if we are listening to recorded, or live music as many instuments produce harmonics well above 20kHz). Truly exciting stuff, right around the corner! And then it all ended with the introduction of the MP3 format and the nearly immediate love Americans had for the format (I admitt it, I love it). Now we could hold our ENTIRE music collection (THOUSANDS of songs) in the palm of our hand with an iPod. Convience won out over quality. It's sad, but true. But hell, I'm not giving up my Sansa and going back to discs, no way. So am I a hypocrit. I suppose, but what I lament is the apparent lack of ambition people seem to have now to improving the sound in their car. 256kbps can sound damn good. And hell, maybe those subtle sonic cues simply can't be heard in a moving car anyway so does it really matter? Perhaps not. But again, I just sense a lack of motivation on the part of Americans to make their cars sound as good as they possibly can. THAT is what I rant about and why this group has become a ghost-town. MOSFET "Mister.Lull" wrote in message ... Well, since you're bored... }:-) I'll have you know that some of us who insist upon using mp3 players do still understand that the quality isn't the best - but 128kbps?! I haven't ripped or downloaded anything with that low of a quality since college, man! The lowest bit-rate I use on my Creative Labs Zen V Plus is 256kbps - and that's only because it's old music that I've been too lazy to re- rip or re-purchase. The iPod, in general, can kiss my ass. I have an 8GB solid-state drive, an FM tuner, a microphone, line-in capabilities, a 12-band equalizer, and an OS that doesn't drain the battery when the unit is powered off for the exact same price as an 8GB iPod. The only thing that keeps me from building and integrating a full-on vehicular PC with absolutely top-notch (aftermarket) deck and the best speakers available is the fact that I have no income to spare. So, what I've done is taken a look at the options available to me with the means I have, and gone forth - not looking back or scrimping and saving for years until I can afford the best equipment. Eventually, I'll be able to afford to go out and buy a deck like the one I've been drooling over for months, now: http://www.crutchfield.com/p_105KDAV...44.html?tp=448 Until then, I'm fairly happy with what I have: http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2462751 To bring this around for you, I find that until I can simply go and buy what I want: I'm building better boxes, to better the sound of the sub I have. I'm learning the the output voltage of a device is it's defining quality through my system. I'm thinking of small quirky things I can do/build for little expense (remember my ashtray lcd temp. readout?). I'm making the best with what I have. ~Mister.Lull ...........well, you said there was nothing going on... :-) On Apr 1, 9:46 pm, "MOSFET" wrote: Come on guys! This not the RAC I knew and loved 15 years ago. IASCA's dead. Alpine has stopped putting advanced parametric EQ's and time-alignment features on their decks. People ONLY seem to care about integrating their iPod's substandard MP3 quality music with their substandard sounding (OK, they have gotten much better over the years) factory systems. GOD FORBID you tarnish the seamless beauty of your new car's elegant dashboard with an "aftermarket deck" (said with a distainful tone). Is it truly a trade-off: thousands of songs at your fingertips vs. concert hall quality sound? Can you have both? I don't see why not. It can be done. There is basically NOTHING happening in this once venerable Usenet group. I remember when the "gods" like Manville Smith, Matt Ion, Mark Zarella, Ian Bjorhovde, and others dispensed wisdom on a daily basis and the ultimate goal of a "concert hall on wheels" was considered the ultimate nirvana and endlessly discussed and debated. What's happened? I think it primarily boils down to the fact that people today are less likely to mess with their integrated dashboards, and that factory systems have improved dramatically. Add to that the fact that people now consider 128 kbps to be "quality sound", where's the need to improve imaging and staging when those subtle sonic cues are no longer to be found in the music. I mean, if you think 128 kbps is "as good as it gets", you will never hear the difference between good speakers, and incredible speakers. Well, I still care and I still strive for better and better sound in my car. I can HONESTLY say that the system in my car sounds better than ANY system I have ever had (and I competed in IASCA, and did pretty well, in the mid 90's). Quality aftermarket speakers today truly sound incredible, as do today's amplifiers and head-units. But it's the speakers of today that REALLY impress me. The tightness and clarity of my Alpine Type R 6.5" midbass speakers STILL amaze me nearly every day, and I've had them for over a year now (but they do need TONS of power, almost like a subwoofer, 150 watts RMS just to the midbass drivers, another 50 to the tweeters). I'm sure recent subwoofer technology changes (like incredibly increased Xmax figures) have something to do with these incredible midbass drivers. The point is that car audio IS still improving, you just have to know where to look. I don't think I will EVER stop improving my car's sound system (for that matter, I'm sure I won't ever stop improving my home theater). But it's sad to see so little happening in this group because I have ALWAYS thought car audio far more interesting than home audio. I mean, any rich guy can go out and spend $50,000 on some Krell, Audio Note, Lamm, Goldmund, etc. gear and have fantastic sound in their home, no problem. But the sonic challanges of the car make EVERY car audio system different and unique. That's what makes this hobby great. That is what I fell in love with many years ago, the desire to have a sound system in my car that equalled (and sometimes surpassed) my home system. It is easy to create great sound in a large, square room. The fun is creating that same sound in a cramped environment full of sonic challanges. Anyway, I felt like ranting. Hell, nothing else was happening, right? Anyway, it's a little sad. I saw it happening 10 years ago with the death of IASCA. I knew even WAY BACK THEN times, they were a changin'. MOSFET Ian D. Bjorhovde |
#5
Posted to rec.audio.car
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NICE install!!
Lull, I know I've seen it before and said it before, but I'll say it again,
beautiful installation job on your Jetta. As I've learned (sometimes the hard way after I started doing all my own installation 10 years ago) that a system is only as good as it's installation. This is a lesson almost EVERYONE learns eventually (like I said sometimes the hard way) when they do their own install jobs. The naive often think that the gear they use and the quality of sound has little to do with the quality of their installation. But I have learned that SQ ABSOLUTELY relates directly to the quality of your installation for SOOOOOOO many reasons. Anyway, nice job. I bet it sounds outstanding. MOSFET |
#6
Posted to rec.audio.car
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NICE install!!
You're too kind, sir.
I've come a long way from back in the day when I first started by putting house speakers in the trunk of my '83 Ford Fairmont and being happy with the sound... One of these days, you'll have to have me over and let me design, build, and install an enclosure for you! ~Mister.Lull On Apr 2, 10:53*pm, "MOSFET" wrote: Lull, I know I've seen it before and said it before, but I'll say it again, beautiful installation job on your Jetta. As I've learned (sometimes the hard way after I started doing all my own installation 10 years ago) that a system is only as good as it's installation. *This is a lesson almost EVERYONE learns eventually (like I said sometimes the hard way) when they do their own install jobs. The naive often think that the gear they use and the quality of sound has little to do with the quality of their installation. *But I have learned that SQ ABSOLUTELY relates directly to the quality of your installation for SOOOOOOO many reasons. Anyway, nice job. *I bet it sounds outstanding. MOSFET |
#7
Posted to rec.audio.car
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NICE install!!
One of these days, you'll have to have me over and let me design,
build, and install an enclosure for you! It's so funny you would say that. My father works with wood all the time and has an EXTENSIVE shop with every woodworking tool known to modern man, as well as an extensive storehouse of plywood, MDF, and all manner and grades of wood. I have often flirted with the idea of building a custom box for my car and my father has offered to help. The problem is that pre-made boxes are just so damn CHEAP. When I compare the hastle (and I know it would be a hastle because I have never done it) of building my own enclosure vs. just buying a pre-made one, I always decide to just go the pre-made route. I'm not bad with my hands, my folks also have a framing studio in their home (it's a huge house), again with every proffesional tool you would find in a framing shop. My mother trained me to cut glass (we have an IMMENSE glass cutter), cut matting (of course we have a huge matt cutter), and we have a casise (sp) so I can cut and join frames. I can now beautifully matt (double and triple matt if I want!) and frame any picture, something you would immediately notice when visiting our house. I love knowing how to do this and take great pride in framing pictures. I know I would have the same pride if I learned how to woodwork. I have just never taken the time to learn. But hell, I'm only 42, there's still tons of time. Nick aka MOSFET PS I love your story about home speakers in your '83 car. We all did those kind of funky things back then. At precisely the SAME TIME, I convinced our band teacher to let me borrow this HUGE Ampeg bass amplifier that was not working. I said I was good at fixing things and would give it a try. It was a huge affair with a tube head on top and two 15" drivers in the lower enclosure. It was hell for heavy. Well after going to a local TV, radio fix-it place in town where I knew the owner, I had replaced the bad fuses (that was the only problem) and had the thing working. Did I tell the band teacher? HELL NO!! I used that sucker as a subwoofer, wiring it to my already large stereo in my room (as well as the latest Technics cassette deck with DBX, a birthday gift from my parents, Technics turntable with Audio Technica cartridge, I was the only one among my friends with a Sony reel-to-reel deck, which could make FLAWLESS recordings of my albums, radio and several years later CD's), along with a 12 band Radio Shack EQ, and speakers that each had a 12" woofer, 5" midrange and tweeter, and then a HUGE Sanyo reciever (all of these were that brushed aluminum look popular for that day). My stereo looked AWESOME, which was, of course, half the fun. It was INCREDIBLE, and was what fueled my love of bass. My friends told me that when I had it REALLY pumping, you could hear it 5 blocks away (I am HONESTLY not exagerating). It shook the house so much plaster LITERALLY fell from the ceiling of the room below mine. Of course, I loved it. And the band teacher seemed to forget about it for three years until I got ready to graduate and brought the matter up. I claimed it still didn't work, but I HAD to bring it back anyway, of course. I was crushed. This then set me on my course to reproduce the bass power I once possesed, and my love of car and home audio was born. Anyway, it's fun to reminise. The things we did with no money to satisfey our NEED for LOUD BASS. And keep in mind, this was the days before outboard subwoofers were common so my set-up was quite unique, to say the least! Ah, those were the days..... Nick |
#8
Posted to rec.audio.car
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NICE install!!
Ah - you see, I so rarely get to work with wood, that I think of it as
less of a hassle and more of a fun project! And while buying a prefab box may be cheap-ish, there are so many advantages to building your own... The one on my cardomain site probably cost me $75 or $80. Total. If you already have the wood, you're talking about probably $25 for the other materials (and one sheet [4ft x 8ft] of 3/4-inch MDF is all you'd need). [I can hear you now, "Um, $50 for one sheet of wood?! What the hell??" I buy it at a place that cuts the main pieces for me with a laser guided machine that's guaranteed accurate to 1/16th of an inch. Saves 4 hours and a hell of a lot of frustration when all you have to cut the wood in a straight line is a cheap hand-held circular saw... But I digress] Actually cutting everything and putting it together only takes a day - and 1/4 of that is letting glues and whatnot dry. What REALLY sucks you in is the planning. Fortunately, I lust for planning. Planning is my secret lover (or it would be secret, but my wife is fully aware and almost supportive). I will spend, literally, months planning installations. I only get to do a new one every 5 years or so, and when I see one coming 6 months ahead - look out! Diagrams, sketches, calculations, WinISD variations, I even downloaded and learned how to use google's 3D modeling program (SketchUp) JUST TO VIRTUALLY BUILD A SUB ENCLOSURE!! Side-Note: That turned out to be a smart move, because only throught that program could I plan for the thickness of 3/4-inch MDF cut at a 60-degree angle and mounted to another piece of wood... You get the idea. So, when I say that I'll help you design, build, and install an enclosure - and you tell me that your parents have every woodworking tool known to man... Let's just say I need a clean pair of shorts. So, don't think I'm just blowing smoke up your ass. I live in Federal Way now, and can certainly get permission from the wife and child to come hang out for a day or two... :-) Lastly, you HAVE to wonder if that Ampeg's still kicking!!! ~Mister.Lull On Apr 3, 2:32*pm, "MOSFET" wrote: One of these days, you'll have to have me over and let me design, build, and install an enclosure for you! It's so funny you would say that. *My father works with wood all the time and has an EXTENSIVE shop with every woodworking tool known to modern man, as well as an extensive storehouse of plywood, MDF, and all manner and grades of wood. *I have often flirted with the idea of building a custom box for my car and my father has offered to help. The problem is that pre-made boxes are just so damn CHEAP. *When I compare the hastle (and I know it would be a hastle because I have never done it) of building my own enclosure vs. just buying a pre-made one, I always decide to just go the pre-made route. *I'm not bad with my hands, my folks also have a framing studio in their home (it's a huge house), again with every proffesional tool you would find in a framing shop. *My mother trained me to cut glass (we have an IMMENSE glass cutter), cut matting (of course we have a huge matt cutter), and we have a casise (sp) so I can cut and join frames. I can now beautifully matt (double and triple matt if I want!) and frame any picture, something you would immediately notice when visiting our house. *I love knowing how to do this and take great pride in framing pictures. *I know I would have the same pride if I learned how to woodwork. *I have just never taken the time to learn. *But hell, I'm only 42, there's still tons of time. Nick aka MOSFET PS I love your story about home speakers in your '83 car. *We all did those kind of funky things back then. *At precisely the SAME TIME, I convinced our band teacher to let me borrow this HUGE Ampeg bass amplifier that was not working. *I said I was good at fixing things and would give it a try. *It was a huge affair with a tube head on top and two 15" drivers in the lower enclosure. *It was hell for heavy. *Well after going to a local TV, radio fix-it place in town where I knew the owner, I had replaced the bad fuses (that was the only problem) and had the thing working. *Did I tell the band teacher? *HELL NO!! *I used that sucker as a subwoofer, wiring it to my already large stereo in my room (as well as the latest Technics cassette deck with DBX, a birthday gift from my parents, Technics turntable with Audio Technica cartridge, I was the only one among my friends with a Sony reel-to-reel deck, which could make FLAWLESS recordings of my albums, radio and several years later CD's), along with a 12 band Radio Shack EQ, and speakers that each had a 12" woofer, 5" midrange and tweeter, and then a HUGE Sanyo reciever (all of these were that brushed aluminum look popular for that day). *My stereo looked AWESOME, which was, of course, half the fun. It was INCREDIBLE, and was what fueled my love of bass. *My friends told me that when I had it REALLY pumping, you could hear it 5 blocks away (I am HONESTLY not exagerating). *It shook the house so much plaster LITERALLY fell from the ceiling of the room below mine. Of course, I loved it. And the band teacher seemed to forget about it for three years until I got ready to graduate and brought the matter up. *I claimed it still didn't work, but I HAD to bring it back anyway, of course. *I was crushed. This then set me on my course to reproduce the bass power I once possesed, and my love of car and home audio was born. Anyway, it's fun to reminise. *The things we did with no money to satisfey our NEED for LOUD BASS. *And keep in mind, this was the days before outboard subwoofers were common so my set-up was quite unique, to say the least! Ah, those were the days..... Nick |
#10
Posted to rec.audio.car
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This Group is sadly borring....
MOSFET wrote:
Ian Bjorhovde didn't write any of that, I just accidentily pasted his name there. Sorry Ian. Heh. :-) |
#11
Posted to rec.audio.car
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This Group is sadly borring....
MOSFET wrote:
Come on guys! This not the RAC I knew and loved 15 years ago. .... Anyway, I felt like ranting. Hell, nothing else was happening, right? Anyway, it's a little sad. I saw it happening 10 years ago with the death of IASCA. I knew even WAY BACK THEN times, they were a changin'. MOSFET Ian D. Bjorhovde It could be that there are so many egocentric individuals here, ready to pounce on people and ridicule them for asking questions that might seem silly to some. People that think they know everything and seem to just live for the opportunity to laugh at others. So, Ian, have any idea WHO I might be referring to? |
#12
Posted to rec.audio.car
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This Group is sadly borring....
I know EXACTLY who you are refferring to. You know, he tried to sell my car
once (I kid you not, if you've been on this group for a several years you might remember this), by getting many of the details about my car from Cardomain and then listing it on an on-line car sales site (this was after a particularly nasty flame exchange). The ONLY reason I found out about it is because I started getting these strange Emails asking details (miliage, condition, price offers, and so on) about my car. Naturally I reported this (and all supporting evidence, which wasn't hard as the on-line car sales site had the evidence of who had listed it) to his IP and then he MYSTERIOUSLY disapeared for three months, hmmmm....... But in the interest of not starting yet ANOTHER flame war, I will not name names, but if you are reading this, YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE. You know, I truly and sincerely HOPE this group didn't die because of flame throwers. However, I have had enough knock down, drag out flame wars with these guys that your theory could very well be true. And it always seemed like our flame wars revolved around, or boiled down to, the notion that the only way to keep this group alive and healthy is to NOT scare away the noobs. And the quickest way to scare away the noobs is for them to come to this group and find about six flame wars in full swing with the natural gas turned up to the max. I mean, geez, would I want to post anythign here if I were a noob? Hell, no! I would go find my answer somewhere else. There were certainly times this group should have been called "rec.flame-wars.car". I REALLY hope that's not the reason for the apparent death of this group, but I fear you may be on to something. I always hoped this would be a friendly, inviting collection of folks who shared a passion for car audio and a TRUE desire to help people, always willing to offer good advice to anyone who asked, no matter how simple or repetitious the question seemed to be. I am only one person put, for what it's worth, at least I will try to live up to this creed. MOSFET "Helen Weed" wrote in message ... MOSFET wrote: Come on guys! This not the RAC I knew and loved 15 years ago. ... Anyway, I felt like ranting. Hell, nothing else was happening, right? Anyway, it's a little sad. I saw it happening 10 years ago with the death of IASCA. I knew even WAY BACK THEN times, they were a changin'. MOSFET Ian D. Bjorhovde It could be that there are so many egocentric individuals here, ready to pounce on people and ridicule them for asking questions that might seem silly to some. People that think they know everything and seem to just live for the opportunity to laugh at others. So, Ian, have any idea WHO I might be referring to? |
#13
Posted to rec.audio.car
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This Group is sadly borring....
Oh, and just to add, I am certainly not the only one who feels this way.
Mr. Lull, for instance, has perhaps been the most consistently helpful member of this fraternity. Even when I feel like I've had enough of the bull****, and have to give this group a rest for several months (because I fear I will throw my monitor out the window), Lull keeps plugging away, helping all those in need. For that I applaud him because I fear my skin is a bit too thin for the insults and hate and I just have to excuse myself for a period of time now and then. So for all of you who still try to always help the best you can, I salute you. Another thing that just came to mind that also may be the cause of very little activity is the incredible amount of SPAM we started getting a couple years ago. You have to wade through all this BS to find an actual question or someone in need. I know this now happens in almost all newsgroups and it is a shame. Again, it represents yet ANOTHER difference between this group now and this group 10-15 years ago. It may confuse noobs as it appears there are about 30 times the SPAM posts as there are actual car audio related posts. If I came to this group for the first time and all I saw were SPAM posts, again I would likely seek my answer somewhere else. Don't think anything can be done about it, short of creating a new MODERATED, car audio group. I have flirted with this idea but I fear I wouldn't have the time to moderate it. Lull, what about you? Just a thought because RAC is dying a quick death. MOSFET "MOSFET" wrote in message m... I know EXACTLY who you are refferring to. You know, he tried to sell my car once (I kid you not, if you've been on this group for a several years you might remember this), by getting many of the details about my car from Cardomain and then listing it on an on-line car sales site (this was after a particularly nasty flame exchange). The ONLY reason I found out about it is because I started getting these strange Emails asking details (miliage, condition, price offers, and so on) about my car. Naturally I reported this (and all supporting evidence, which wasn't hard as the on-line car sales site had the evidence of who had listed it) to his IP and then he MYSTERIOUSLY disapeared for three months, hmmmm....... But in the interest of not starting yet ANOTHER flame war, I will not name names, but if you are reading this, YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE. You know, I truly and sincerely HOPE this group didn't die because of flame throwers. However, I have had enough knock down, drag out flame wars with these guys that your theory could very well be true. And it always seemed like our flame wars revolved around, or boiled down to, the notion that the only way to keep this group alive and healthy is to NOT scare away the noobs. And the quickest way to scare away the noobs is for them to come to this group and find about six flame wars in full swing with the natural gas turned up to the max. I mean, geez, would I want to post anythign here if I were a noob? Hell, no! I would go find my answer somewhere else. There were certainly times this group should have been called "rec.flame-wars.car". I REALLY hope that's not the reason for the apparent death of this group, but I fear you may be on to something. I always hoped this would be a friendly, inviting collection of folks who shared a passion for car audio and a TRUE desire to help people, always willing to offer good advice to anyone who asked, no matter how simple or repetitious the question seemed to be. I am only one person put, for what it's worth, at least I will try to live up to this creed. MOSFET "Helen Weed" wrote in message ... MOSFET wrote: Come on guys! This not the RAC I knew and loved 15 years ago. ... Anyway, I felt like ranting. Hell, nothing else was happening, right? Anyway, it's a little sad. I saw it happening 10 years ago with the death of IASCA. I knew even WAY BACK THEN times, they were a changin'. MOSFET Ian D. Bjorhovde It could be that there are so many egocentric individuals here, ready to pounce on people and ridicule them for asking questions that might seem silly to some. People that think they know everything and seem to just live for the opportunity to laugh at others. So, Ian, have any idea WHO I might be referring to? |
#14
Posted to rec.audio.car
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This Group is sadly borring....
Well, while I appreciate the kudos, I take breaks from the group as
well. Whether it be life that gets in the way, or frustration with hackers, spammers, and flamers varies from break to break... The last break I took was due to the fact that some jack-assed hacker/ spammer had "stolen" my ID... Still, to this day, if I check my posting history (I use google groups to access) there's a bunch of garbled crap that "I" have posted in many, many groups... Moderated groups are fine (I was a member of one for quite a while [can't remember the name now, but it's gone]), but sometimes I enjoy using a little bit of colorful language to accentuate a point. When you have a glorified digital janitor on a power-kick who erases half your posts, even though they contained good advice, moderated forums can be frustrating (not that all mods are like that, but as stereotypes go...........). ~Mister.Lull On Apr 8, 2:00*pm, "MOSFET" wrote: Oh, and just to add, I am certainly not the only one who feels this way. Mr. Lull, for instance, has perhaps been the most consistently helpful member of this fraternity. *Even when I feel like I've had enough of the bull****, and have to give this group a rest for several months (because I fear I will throw my monitor out the window), Lull keeps plugging away, helping all those in need. *For that I applaud him because I fear my skin is a bit too thin for the insults and hate and I just have to excuse myself for a period of time now and then. So for all of you who still try to always help the best you can, I salute you. Another thing that just came to mind that also may be the cause of very little activity is the incredible amount of SPAM we started getting a couple years ago. *You have to wade through all this BS to find an actual question or someone in need. *I know this now happens in almost all newsgroups and it is a shame. *Again, it represents yet ANOTHER difference between this group now and this group 10-15 years ago. *It may confuse noobs as it appears there are about 30 times the SPAM posts as there are actual car audio related posts. *If I came to this group for the first time and all I saw were SPAM posts, again I would likely seek my answer somewhere else. *Don't think anything can be done about it, short of creating a new MODERATED, car audio group. *I have flirted with this idea but I fear I wouldn't have the time to moderate it. *Lull, what about you? *Just a thought because RAC is dying a quick death. MOSFET "MOSFET" wrote in message m... I know EXACTLY who you are refferring to. You know, he tried to sell my car once (I kid you not, if you've been on this group for a several years you might remember this), by getting many of the details about my car from Cardomain and then listing it on an on-line car sales site (this was after a particularly nasty flame exchange). *The ONLY reason I found out about it is because I started getting these strange Emails asking details (miliage, condition, price offers, and so on) about my car. *Naturally I reported this (and all supporting evidence, which wasn't hard as the on-line car sales site had the evidence of who had listed it) to his IP and then he MYSTERIOUSLY disapeared for three months, hmmmm....... But in the interest of not starting yet ANOTHER flame war, I will not name names, but if you are reading this, YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE. You know, I truly and sincerely HOPE this group didn't die because of flame throwers. *However, I have had enough knock down, drag out flame wars with these guys that your theory could very well be true. *And it always seemed like our flame wars revolved around, or boiled down to, the notion that the only way to keep this group alive and healthy is to NOT scare away the noobs. And the quickest way to scare away the noobs is for them to come to this group and find about six flame wars in full swing with the natural gas turned up to the max. I mean, geez, would I want to post anythign here if I were a noob? *Hell, no! *I would go find my answer somewhere else. There were certainly times this group should have been called "rec.flame-wars.car". I REALLY hope that's not the reason for the apparent death of this group, but I fear you may be on to something. I always hoped this would be a friendly, inviting collection of folks who shared a passion for car audio and a TRUE desire to help people, always willing to offer good advice to anyone who asked, no matter how simple or repetitious the question seemed to be. I am only one person put, for what it's worth, at least I will try to live up to this creed. MOSFET "Helen Weed" wrote in message ... MOSFET wrote: Come on guys! *This not the RAC I knew and loved 15 years ago. ... Anyway, I felt like ranting. *Hell, nothing else was happening, right? Anyway, it's a little sad. *I saw it happening 10 years ago with the death of IASCA. *I knew even WAY BACK THEN times, they were a changin'. MOSFET Ian D. Bjorhovde It could be that there are so many egocentric individuals here, ready to pounce on people and ridicule them for asking questions that might seem silly to some. People that think they know everything and seem to just live for the opportunity to laugh at others. So, Ian, have any idea WHO I might be referring to?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - |
#15
Posted to rec.audio.car
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This Group is sadly borring....
When
you have a glorified digital janitor on a power-kick who erases half your posts, even though they contained good advice, moderated forums can be frustrating (not that all mods are like that, but as stereotypes go...........). I hear you there, brother. I was a member of two moderated home-stereo audiophile groups and my posts were often not posted although I knew they were relevant and helpful to the discussion at hand (at least based on what I saw from other postings, not that I am the end-all, be-all expert on high-end home audio). Once I asked a question and recieved a curt Email back that my question was not "worthy" for consideration by the regular "gods". What I began to notice was that certain individuals seemed to ALWAYS get their posts listed, no matter how superflouous or unrelated their comments were. And it wans't long before I relalized what I was TRULY dealing with was a private club for "members only". Needless to say, after this epiphany, I never went back. So yes, I agree with you Lull. My experience with EVERY mod I've ever participated in has not been a positive one. And I suppose I can see why. Even the most earnest attempt at making an all inclusive, helpful, flame and obsenity free moderated group will, in all probability, eventually go south. The reason is simple, the moderator. After wading through endless SPAM, obsenity, non-related topics, and downright nastiness, a moderator will eventually find himself taxed for time and become just a little jaded at all the garbage he has to read through. No doubt a moderator will fall into the trap of creating a kind of "short-hand" way of dealing with all the posts. The easist way is to first allow all posts, sight unseen, from those people the moderator knows well. The next bit of short-hand is a cursory look at everything else and at the first sign of anything that doesn't smell right AT ALL, the delete button is employed. I mean, moderating a popular group CANNOT be easy and, of course, extremelly time consuming. It is simply human nature that eventually a type of shorthand by the moderator will evolve, no matter how noble the original intentions. Like I said before, I don't think I'd want that job, in fact, I KNOW I wouldn't want that responsibility. Perhaps one day AI will evolve to the point that a computer can screen the questions in a fair, unbiased way, but we are obviously VERY far from that (heck, for now I'd take a bot that simply tossed out all those posts with obsenities, it would at least be a small start down that road). MOSFET |
#16
Posted to rec.audio.car
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This Group is sadly borring....
Just a quick comment from a casual "reader" of this group. I am a low key
person who mainly monitors this group, but as a novice in car audio, it has been nice to post questions here and have some helpful responses, especially including MOSFET. Yes, it is mostly crud and spammers here, but if you need the help you need the help............ Good Luck / Don't Give Up James |
#17
Posted to rec.audio.car
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This Group is sadly borring....
Well said. Be persistent.
If you need the help, despite all the BS, THE KNOWLEDGE IS HERE. I have asked dozens of questions of my own over the years and was ALWAYS able to get the info I needed right here. I posted a question only a couple months back and got the information I wanted. James, you raise a good point. This group may not be exactly the same as it was 10 years ago with the SPAMMERS and such, but this is still where I go when I need the 411. I suppose my orginal post on this thread really was about how little activity there seems to be these days, not that there still aren't nice people willling to help anyone with a question. Fortunately there are such folks quitely waiting in the wings ready to help anyone who asks. It's just that I remember a day when this group was positively BRIMMING with questions (I've got alternator whine; Dynamat's too expensive, any alternatives; who makes the best this or that; how does IASCA judge this or that; how do I connect my iPod to my stereo; etc.). Every day, dozens of questions or comments. Now, almost nothing. That was my original thought. And I just wanted to kick around some ideas as to why this is so (too much SPAM, too many people scaring the noobs, fewer people putting aftermarket systems in their cars, etc.). But James, you raise a good point. If persistent, this is STILL a good place to get a question answered about car audio. MOSFET "James" wrote in message ... Just a quick comment from a casual "reader" of this group. I am a low key person who mainly monitors this group, but as a novice in car audio, it has been nice to post questions here and have some helpful responses, especially including MOSFET. Yes, it is mostly crud and spammers here, but if you need the help you need the help............ Good Luck / Don't Give Up James |
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