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#1
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"High Power" Head Unit to Power Separates?
I'm upgrading my BMW ('5 540i) factory head unit to a Kenwood KDC-X869,
which has "high power." Would my system sound better than stock if I used the new head unit's amp and some high quality separates (e.g. MB Quart, a/d/s, etc.) or is the internal amp inadequate to power this category of speaker? Are there separates that are particularly effiicient and designed for to run of a hu? Thanks in advance for your recommendations. Regards, Davey V. |
#2
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"High Power" Head Unit to Power Separates?
I'm upgrading my BMW ('5 540i) factory head unit to a Kenwood KDC-X869,
which has "high power." "High power" apparently means ~15 watts per channel, which is what head units produce. Would my system sound better than stock if I used the new head unit's amp and some high quality separates (e.g. MB Quart, a/d/s, etc.) or is the internal amp inadequate to power this category of speaker? It may or may not sound better than stock (depends on how stock sounds I guess). It probably will sound better. Are there separates that are particularly effiicient and designed for to run of a hu? Yes. Why are you ruling out an amp? |
#3
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"High Power" Head Unit to Power Separates?
Only ruling out an amp for now because I don't have time and funds to do it
the right way. Which separates are you thinking of that would work well in this application? "Mark Zarella" wrote in message ... I'm upgrading my BMW ('5 540i) factory head unit to a Kenwood KDC-X869, which has "high power." "High power" apparently means ~15 watts per channel, which is what head units produce. Would my system sound better than stock if I used the new head unit's amp and some high quality separates (e.g. MB Quart, a/d/s, etc.) or is the internal amp inadequate to power this category of speaker? It may or may not sound better than stock (depends on how stock sounds I guess). It probably will sound better. Are there separates that are particularly effiicient and designed for to run of a hu? Yes. Why are you ruling out an amp? |
#4
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"High Power" Head Unit to Power Separates?
Then I suggest you rearrange your priorities. You're talking about a/d/s/
and MB speakers which both cost a lot, but not a $100 amp? A set of mid-level speakers running off an amplifier will sound better than the best speakers in the world running off the HU. -- "Davey V" wrote in message ... Only ruling out an amp for now because I don't have time and funds to do it the right way. Which separates are you thinking of that would work well in this application? "Mark Zarella" wrote in message ... I'm upgrading my BMW ('5 540i) factory head unit to a Kenwood KDC-X869, which has "high power." "High power" apparently means ~15 watts per channel, which is what head units produce. Would my system sound better than stock if I used the new head unit's amp and some high quality separates (e.g. MB Quart, a/d/s, etc.) or is the internal amp inadequate to power this category of speaker? It may or may not sound better than stock (depends on how stock sounds I guess). It probably will sound better. Are there separates that are particularly effiicient and designed for to run of a hu? Yes. Why are you ruling out an amp? |
#5
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"High Power" Head Unit to Power Separates?
If high sound levels aren't required, that might not be true.
Assuming that each setup won't be pushed to distortion, decent speakers driven by 15 watts per channel RMS will probably sound better than so-so speakers driven by 40 watts per channel RMS. Regards, Joe "Mark Zarella" wrote in : Then I suggest you rearrange your priorities. You're talking about a/d/s/ and MB speakers which both cost a lot, but not a $100 amp? A set of mid-level speakers running off an amplifier will sound better than the best speakers in the world running off the HU. -- "Davey V" wrote in message ... Only ruling out an amp for now because I don't have time and funds to do it the right way. Which separates are you thinking of that would work well in this application? "Mark Zarella" wrote in message ... I'm upgrading my BMW ('5 540i) factory head unit to a Kenwood KDC-X869, which has "high power." "High power" apparently means ~15 watts per channel, which is what head units produce. Would my system sound better than stock if I used the new head unit's amp and some high quality separates (e.g. MB Quart, a/d/s, etc.) or is the internal amp inadequate to power this category of speaker? It may or may not sound better than stock (depends on how stock sounds I guess). It probably will sound better. Are there separates that are particularly effiicient and designed for to run of a hu? Yes. Why are you ruling out an amp? |
#6
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"High Power" Head Unit to Power Separates?
Joe wrote
If high sound levels aren't required, that might not be true. Assuming that each setup won't be pushed to distortion, decent speakers driven by 15 watts per channel RMS will probably sound better than so-so speakers driven by 40 watts per channel RMS. Regards, Joe It's the midbass that suffers ... the head unit just won't kick up enough brass to maintain a solid level of sound across the frequency spectrum. Remember that you will have the head unit up near max volume levels to acheive 15W. Distortion will be just mad. -- Regards, Dan Snooks |
#7
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"High Power" Head Unit to Power Separates?
Ideally, I'd like to put in a set of good speakers and then get to the amp
when I have some time to do it the right way. Are there actually amps that you would recommend in the $100 price range? On ebay there are plenty of nice 2-ch amps between about $90 and $130. Your plan will certainly work - just don't expect stellar performance prior to installing the amp. In the meantime, I wouldn't let efficiency be a factor in your choice of speaker considering your long-term goals. |
#8
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"High Power" Head Unit to Power Separates?
"Daniel Snooks" wrote in
: Joe wrote If high sound levels aren't required, that might not be true. Assuming that each setup won't be pushed to distortion, decent speakers driven by 15 watts per channel RMS will probably sound better than so-so speakers driven by 40 watts per channel RMS. Regards, Joe It's the midbass that suffers ... the head unit just won't kick up enough brass to maintain a solid level of sound across the frequency spectrum. Remember that you will have the head unit up near max volume levels to acheive 15W. Distortion will be just mad. I think that most aftermarket HUs have enough power to make decent, efficient good-quality speakers sound good, assuming that high sound levels aren't necessary. All the power in the world won't make inferior speakers sound good. IOW, more power can't make a speaker with poor frequency response sound good. Regards, Joe |
#9
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"High Power" Head Unit to Power Separates?
"Mark Zarella" wrote in
: If high sound levels aren't required, that might not be true. Assuming that each setup won't be pushed to distortion, decent speakers driven by 15 watts per channel RMS will probably sound better than so-so speakers driven by 40 watts per channel RMS. I disagree. First of all, it's not "high sound levels" that I'm talking about. I'm talking about fairly moderate typical listening levels. Your peaks will require well above 15 watts per channel, especially for components, and even more especially for most a/d/s/ components (like the OP alluded to). If he plans on driving with the windows down or the AC/heat on or on the highway, forget about it! This is true; I've experienced it personally. But I was under the impression that we were talking about low-to-moderate listening levels. Secondly, there are many cases where STOCK speakers sound better off a head unit than the most expensive aftermarket speakers. This is usually because of the increase in sensitivity of some stocks -- a direct consequence of power's effect on SQ. It's also in part due to the fact that OEM speakers are "engineered" to work with the OEM HU (and amp, if applicable). Replacing one part in an OEM chain won't necessarily result in better sound. The fallacy that power and SQ are somehow mutually exclusive runs rampant in this newsgroup! Mark, my only point is that more power won't make up for the lack of frequency response in an inferior speaker. In reality, you need both power and good frequency response for good sound. Regards, Joe |
#10
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"High Power" Head Unit to Power Separates?
I disagree. First of all, it's not "high sound levels" that I'm
talking about. I'm talking about fairly moderate typical listening levels. Your peaks will require well above 15 watts per channel, especially for components, and even more especially for most a/d/s/ components (like the OP alluded to). If he plans on driving with the windows down or the AC/heat on or on the highway, forget about it! This is true; I've experienced it personally. But I was under the impression that we were talking about low-to-moderate listening levels. I have been talking about moderate listening levels. For instance, the sound level required to be able to discern detail in the music above road/car noise. Secondly, there are many cases where STOCK speakers sound better off a head unit than the most expensive aftermarket speakers. This is usually because of the increase in sensitivity of some stocks -- a direct consequence of power's effect on SQ. It's also in part due to the fact that OEM speakers are "engineered" to work with the OEM HU (and amp, if applicable). Replacing one part in an OEM chain won't necessarily result in better sound. Yes, if applicable. But I was also referring to an aftermarket HU. I didn't make that clear. The fallacy that power and SQ are somehow mutually exclusive runs rampant in this newsgroup! Mark, my only point is that more power won't make up for the lack of frequency response in an inferior speaker. In reality, you need both power and good frequency response for good sound. That's exactly right. 15 watts per channel will not yield flat response characteristics for a good set of components because it will be unable to accurately reproduce midbass frequencies and, to a lesser extent, midrange frequencies. |
#11
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"High Power" Head Unit to Power Separates?
Davey, What year BMW 5er? If it's 1997 to current E39 and does NOT have the DSP option, your factory HU has 4 channels of high quality 4volt pre-amp output. Go to www.bmwtips.com to find a nice wiring diagram and just tap into the preamp signals in the trunk. You can also search the archives on the E39 ( or other model ) board at http://bimmer.roadfly.org/bmw/forums/e39/. Once you have that, bypass the factory amp and send you new amp's full power signals back through the factory wiring to your new speakers. It is all very easy to do. If you're Bimmer is older, your on your own. If it has the DSP option, things get quite a bit more complicated. I have quite a lot of experience doing this as I've recently done my own E39 as follows: Factory HU mb-quart components in front mb-quart coax in rear Phoenix Gold Xs6600 amp large Pro-Wedge sub in trunk. Good Luck, -Kevin "Davey V" wrote in message ... I'm upgrading my BMW ('5 540i) factory head unit to a Kenwood KDC-X869, which has "high power." Would my system sound better than stock if I used the new head unit's amp and some high quality separates (e.g. MB Quart, a/d/s, etc.) or is the internal amp inadequate to power this category of speaker? Are there separates that are particularly effiicient and designed for to run of a hu? Thanks in advance for your recommendations. Regards, Davey V. |
#12
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"High Power" Head Unit to Power Separates?
Joe wrote:
If high sound levels aren't required, that might not be true. Assuming that each setup won't be pushed to distortion, decent speakers driven by 15 watts per channel RMS will probably sound better than so-so speakers driven by 40 watts per channel RMS. Regards, Joe The new 60 W X 4 "hybrid" Alpine HU will reportedly put out a real 25 watts X 4 so are not too weak in the clean power department. Used with the internal hi-pass crossover near 80 Hz, high level and great headroom can be obtained. I use an Alpine CDA 9815 HU with Alpine 5.25 component front and 6.5 coax rear driven off the HU. I was shocked how much louder and cleaner this HU is compared to my previous Alpine CDM-7834 (35W X 4). The SPL will make your ear ring after 10 minutes of loud listening... particularly AC/DC! As always, my 0.02 -- Eric (Dero) Desrochers Hiroshima 45, Tchernobyl 86, Windows 95 |
#13
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"High Power" Head Unit to Power Separates?
The new 60 W X 4 "hybrid" Alpine HU will reportedly put out a real 25
watts X 4 so are not too weak in the clean power department. Used with the internal hi-pass crossover near 80 Hz, high level and great headroom can be obtained. Perhaps relatively high level, but certainly not great headroom. |
#14
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"High Power" Head Unit to Power Separates?
Kevin-
It's a '95, so everything is straightforward and relatively easy. Regards, Davey V. "Jackson" wrote in message ... Davey, What year BMW 5er? If it's 1997 to current E39 and does NOT have the DSP option, your factory HU has 4 channels of high quality 4volt pre-amp output. Go to www.bmwtips.com to find a nice wiring diagram and just tap into the preamp signals in the trunk. You can also search the archives on the E39 ( or other model ) board at http://bimmer.roadfly.org/bmw/forums/e39/. Once you have that, bypass the factory amp and send you new amp's full power signals back through the factory wiring to your new speakers. It is all very easy to do. If you're Bimmer is older, your on your own. If it has the DSP option, things get quite a bit more complicated. I have quite a lot of experience doing this as I've recently done my own E39 as follows: Factory HU mb-quart components in front mb-quart coax in rear Phoenix Gold Xs6600 amp large Pro-Wedge sub in trunk. Good Luck, -Kevin "Davey V" wrote in message ... I'm upgrading my BMW ('5 540i) factory head unit to a Kenwood KDC-X869, which has "high power." Would my system sound better than stock if I used the new head unit's amp and some high quality separates (e.g. MB Quart, a/d/s, etc.) or is the internal amp inadequate to power this category of speaker? Are there separates that are particularly effiicient and designed for to run of a hu? Thanks in advance for your recommendations. Regards, Davey V. |
#15
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"High Power" Head Unit to Power Separates?
Good luck. You have a very solidly sealed trunk, so you may end up having trouble getting any low frequencies ( from a sub ) through to the cabin unless you have fold down seats, the ski hatch, or some other large, free-air opening between. I've been putting off cutting anything in mine, as I have none of the above, but will end up doing it eventually. -Kevin "Davey V" wrote in message ... Kevin- It's a '95, so everything is straightforward and relatively easy. Regards, Davey V. "Jackson" wrote in message ... Davey, What year BMW 5er? If it's 1997 to current E39 and does NOT have the DSP option, your factory HU has 4 channels of high quality 4volt pre-amp output. Go to www.bmwtips.com to find a nice wiring diagram and just tap into the preamp signals in the trunk. You can also search the archives on the E39 ( or other model ) board at http://bimmer.roadfly.org/bmw/forums/e39/. Once you have that, bypass the factory amp and send you new amp's full power signals back through the factory wiring to your new speakers. It is all very easy to do. If you're Bimmer is older, your on your own. If it has the DSP option, things get quite a bit more complicated. I have quite a lot of experience doing this as I've recently done my own E39 as follows: Factory HU mb-quart components in front mb-quart coax in rear Phoenix Gold Xs6600 amp large Pro-Wedge sub in trunk. Good Luck, -Kevin "Davey V" wrote in message ... I'm upgrading my BMW ('5 540i) factory head unit to a Kenwood KDC-X869, which has "high power." Would my system sound better than stock if I used the new head unit's amp and some high quality separates (e.g. MB Quart, a/d/s, etc.) or is the internal amp inadequate to power this category of speaker? Are there separates that are particularly effiicient and designed for to run of a hu? Thanks in advance for your recommendations. Regards, Davey V. |
#16
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"High Power" Head Unit to Power Separates?
Eventually I'd be willing to cut out the ski sack port. For now I'm just
concentrating on the front stage. "Mark Zarella" wrote in message ... How about just taking the rear speakers out? There's two holes. -- "Jackson" wrote in message ... Good luck. You have a very solidly sealed trunk, so you may end up having trouble getting any low frequencies ( from a sub ) through to the cabin unless you have fold down seats, the ski hatch, or some other large, free-air opening between. I've been putting off cutting anything in mine, as I have none of the above, but will end up doing it eventually. -Kevin "Davey V" wrote in message ... Kevin- It's a '95, so everything is straightforward and relatively easy. Regards, Davey V. "Jackson" wrote in message ... Davey, What year BMW 5er? If it's 1997 to current E39 and does NOT have the DSP option, your factory HU has 4 channels of high quality 4volt pre-amp output. Go to www.bmwtips.com to find a nice wiring diagram and just tap into the preamp signals in the trunk. You can also search the archives on the E39 ( or other model ) board at http://bimmer.roadfly.org/bmw/forums/e39/. Once you have that, bypass the factory amp and send you new amp's full power signals back through the factory wiring to your new speakers. It is all very easy to do. If you're Bimmer is older, your on your own. If it has the DSP option, things get quite a bit more complicated. I have quite a lot of experience doing this as I've recently done my own E39 as follows: Factory HU mb-quart components in front mb-quart coax in rear Phoenix Gold Xs6600 amp large Pro-Wedge sub in trunk. Good Luck, -Kevin "Davey V" wrote in message ... I'm upgrading my BMW ('5 540i) factory head unit to a Kenwood KDC-X869, which has "high power." Would my system sound better than stock if I used the new head unit's amp and some high quality separates (e.g. MB Quart, a/d/s, etc.) or is the internal amp inadequate to power this category of speaker? Are there separates that are particularly effiicient and designed for to run of a hu? Thanks in advance for your recommendations. Regards, Davey V. |
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