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#41
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On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 09:37:02 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
wrote: "John Atkinson" wrote in message oups.com Arny Krueger wrote: "Harry Lavo" wrote in message news "Arny Krueger" wrote in message ... Hmm, truth is stranger than fiction, slippery wording, or what have you: http://www.stereophile.com/features/69/index2.html ...Please follow up on the URL above - the rest of this Atkinson-approved article just gets stranger and stranger and stranger... As usual, Arny, you are being disingenuous. You don't reveal that what you are quoting from is a man's column, not a review. I provided a link to the *entire article*. No, Mr. Krueger, your link takes the reader to _page 3_ of the Web reprint, _not_ the entire article. Hair splitting, anyone? I guess Atkinson wants people to believe that his site is so badly designed that there's no way to link the rest of the article from the page which I pointed to, being that it contains the text I quoted. Even though I keep tripping Atkinson up in childish deceptions, someone at least semi-competent did the site design for his ragazine. You should probably give that person a call. |
#42
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IKYABWAIBorg shows "Mr T" how it's done. I guess in your circles, grinding out lame IKYABWAIs passes for smarts. Grinding out lame IKYABWAIs clearly passes for smarts in your group, George. LOL! |
#44
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"John Atkinson" wrote in message oups.com... wrote: "Arny Krueger" wrote in message ... "BD" wrote in message ups.com The OP clearly implies that the magazine published an article on the quoted piece of gear.... regardless how much 'slippery' wording is used. Hmm, truth is stranger than fiction, slippery wording, or what have you: http://www.stereophile.com/features/69/index2.html The Mpingo disk article, is a classic case of stupidity and fraud. It appears you haven't read it, Mr. McKelvy. Because if you had've done, you would see that it contains strong opinions for but also _against_ the efficacy of the Mpingo discs. First we see Joseph Welch dissing Stereophile in this thread for a review that had actually appeared in TAS, then we have Arny Kreuger up to his old debating trade tricks, presenting part of a Web article as though it were the whole (and taking you in), and now here you are, dissing an article you don't appear to have read. Not a very good track record for those who claim to believe in Science, eh. John Atkinson Editor, Stereophile So, you didn't actually read the review then? If you had you know that the tenor was very poisitive and offered no measurements or tchnical info of any kind, just blind drooling approval. "With a number of the synergistic Cable Jackets, careful attention paid to grounding, the Mpingo Discs on the front end, and the Spatial Control Kit, I found the effects on the sound were shockingly as advertised---the size of the soundstage, its tonal balance, and the focus we achieved were astonishing. The soundstage was as big as the Great Outdoors (or at least as big as whatever acoustic was on the source material)---we're not talkin' Big Audio Bloat here. The Harmonix room-tuning products stopped the walls from grossly resonating in the audio band, but the Shun Mook treatments enabled us to tweak and micro-adjust the sound to absolute best effect. We were able to dial in frequency response for a smooth, seamless, top-to-bottom, cohesive, Zen-like, harmonious presentation. Images took on a solidity and palpability that was positively scary. I've used that term before, but instead of drawing attention to the pyrotechnics, these treatments allowed me to sink deeply into the music's wash and feel its meaning---with rock, pop, jazz, classical, you name it. That's what it's all about, no? " And BTW, what kind of moron would spend $800-1500.00 for a record weight? |
#45
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"John Atkinson" wrote in message ups.com... Arny Krueger wrote: "Harry Lavo" wrote in message news "Arny Krueger" wrote in message ... Hmm, truth is stranger than fiction, slippery wording, or what have you: http://www.stereophile.com/features/69/index2.html ...Please follow up on the URL above - the rest of this Atkinson-approved article just gets stranger and stranger and stranger... As usual, Arny, you are being disingenuous. You don't reveal that what you are quoting from is a man's column, not a review. I provided a link to the *entire article*. No, Mr. Krueger, your link takes the reader to _page 3_ of the Web reprint, _not_ the entire article. I guess the average retard that reads SP would be too stupid to find the rest of the article from there. This is what I was referring to in the posting to which to you seem to have taken exception. The correct URL, which takes readers to the beginning of the full reprint, which includes an introductory comment by myself, is http://www.stereophile.com/features/69 . John Atkinson Editor, Stereophile And the thing reads as an endorsement for snake oil which is what it is. |
#46
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In rec.audio.tech John Atkinson wrote:
Putting to one side precisely _how_ you came by your knowledge that the Shakti Stones are "do-nothing frauds," Mr. Welch, I commissioned reviews of the Shaktis from 2 reviewers, one of whom. Mr. Scull, is by hs own admission a subjectivist, the other of whom, Barry Willis, is an avowed skeptic. Imagine my surprise, therefore, when _both_ subjectivist and skeptic found that the Shakti devices had a positive audible effect on the sounds of their systems. Could it possibly be that Scull and Willis are right and you are wrong, Mr. Welch? Was the 'avowed skeptic' skeptical enough to actually subject the 'device' to a controlled comparison? Could it be possible that neither Scull nor Willis actually evaluated the device in a manner that would actually identify whether the *cause* of the 'positive audible effect' was subjective or objective? -- -S |
#47
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In rec.audio.tech Len Moskowitz wrote:
Arny Krueger wrote: http://www.stereophile.com/features/69/index2.html This was published back in 1994, written by Jonathan Scull. I don't have a problem with a writer talking about how something that seems patently irrational to many of us affects their perception of music played back over their audio systems. The whole article is clearly subjective. I can't argue with what people say that they perceive. I don't see a single measurement there, and nothing that I would call misleading. So, let's see, he said that putting a Mpingo disc on gear makes it sound better than before. If he'd written instead that painting a car red made it go faster than before, you wouldn't find anything wrong about that either? You wouldn't want, say, some sort of independent evidence that it actually did what it was claimed to do? Personally, I don't believe that the Mpingo disks do anything at all, but I don't have any problems with folks who don't agree with me. If they want to spend their money, God bless 'em. But that's a different issue. If people want to spend their money, they're free to. If they want to claim that they've jsut bought a perpetual motion machine, they're free to do that too. But they can't demand , or even expect, that their claims go unchallenged. For a magazine devoted to consumer audio to publish rather far-fetched claims for a product without any attempt to substantiate them other than by patently flawed methods -- should that be of concern to people interested in consumer audio? I particularly liked the last two sentences: "Beware of imitations that won't stand an A/B test!" intoned Mr. Ying. Bill usually doesn't say much, but when he does talk, he roars. That was perhaps the most amusing part of the article, yes -- the idea that an 'A/B' as performed by these clowns would reveal any accurate information. -- -S |
#48
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"Steven Sullivan" wrote in message
In rec.audio.tech John Atkinson wrote: Putting to one side precisely _how_ you came by your knowledge that the Shakti Stones are "do-nothing frauds," Mr. Welch, I commissioned reviews of the Shaktis from 2 reviewers, one of whom. Mr. Scull, is by hs own admission a subjectivist, the other of whom, Barry Willis, is an avowed skeptic. Imagine my surprise, therefore, when _both_ subjectivist and skeptic found that the Shakti devices had a positive audible effect on the sounds of their systems. Could it possibly be that Scull and Willis are right and you are wrong, Mr. Welch? Was the 'avowed skeptic' skeptical enough to actually subject the 'device' to a controlled comparison? Could it be possible that neither Scull nor Willis actually evaluated the device in a manner that would actually identify whether the *cause* of the 'positive audible effect' was subjective or objective? I checked the Stereophile site and confirmed that "avowed skeptic" Barry Willis did indeed swallow Ray Kimber's infamous Diaural loudspeaker sanke oil spew hook, line, and sinker. Barry Willis, is an avowed skeptic? If you believe that, than you'll believe that John Atkinson tells the whole truth! ;-) |
#49
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Steven Sullivan said:
If he'd written instead that painting a car red made it go faster than before, you wouldn't find anything wrong about that either? But that's true. Ever seen a green Ferrari? :-) -- "Audio as a serious hobby is going down the tubes." - Howard Ferstler, 25/4/2005 |
#50
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"dave weil" wrote in message ... On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 23:17:36 GMT, " wrote: It is one of the reasons I stopped subscribing in the first place. The only reason I get it now is because my wife re-subscribed in order to help with a fundraiser for my son's school. The Mpingo disk article, is a classic case of stupidity and fraud.. The fact that you have spent good money to subscribe to a magazine that you detest is the classic case of stupidity. I didn't, my wife did without my knowledge. Mr. Atkinson is laughing all the way to the bank. As do many con artists. |
#51
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duh-Mikey falls down and goes splat. The fact that you have spent good money to subscribe to a magazine that you detest is the classic case of stupidity. I didn't, my wife did without my knowledge. What does that tell you, Mickey? |
#52
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Having read this tale:
http://www.stereophile.com/features/69/index2.html I was reminded of this tale: http://snipurl.com/hom4 I think the latter tale would make a splendid production for the Stereophile Little Theatre with the following cast: The Emperor - Jonathan Scull (is this "type casting"?) The Prime Minister - John Atkinson The tailors - Yu Wah Tan and Bill Ying The little boy - Arny Krueger (no offence intended, Mr. Krueger) |
#53
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John Atkinson wrote:
wrote: John Atkinson wrote: wrote: John Atkinson wrote: It appears you misunderstood both Mr. Welch's question and my response, Mr. Krueger. Mr. Welch was quite clearly referring to a purported Stereophile review of the "Shakti Hallographic Soundfield Optimizer." As I can't find any such review in my index, I was asking Mr. Welch for help in finding it. Mea Culpa! I confused the "Shakti Hallograph Soundfield Optimizer" with the "Shakti Electromagnetic Stabilizer". Or perhaps you were misled by James Randi's implication on his website that Wayne Donnelly's review of the "Hallographic Soundfield Optimizer" had appeared in Stereophile? If I were easily misled, Mr. Atkinson, I would be a loyal Stereophile reader. Do you see Randi everywhere, Mr. Atkinson? No, I was specifically referring to a message in another current thread to which you are posting, specifically: -------------------------------------------- (Chevdo) wrote to joseph_welch in message MQrVe.269840$on1.40437@clgrps13 on Tue, 13 Sep 2005 03:38:20 GMT In article .com, says... The man is a repugnant malignancy: http://snipurl.com/hmrq ... http://www.randi.org/jr/120304youve.html#2 --------------------------------------------- The URL above takes you to an essay by Randi in which he presents a review of the "Hallograph" as though it had appeared in Stereophile. As the posting was in response to you, I assumed that it was that that had triggered your outburst of bile. Surely you know the old saw regarding "when you assume". It describes you _perfectly_, Mr. Atkinson. If I were a huckster and conman like yourself, an intelligent, persistent, hard-nosed sceptic like Randi would get under my skin, too. Oh dear, Mr. Welch, you really do appear to have got panties in a wad. :-) You mistake my utter lack of respect for you, my contempt of you and my derision of you for anger, Mr. Atkinson. You're none too smart, are you? |
#54
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On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 17:44:57 +0000 (UTC), Steven Sullivan
wrote: I don't see a single measurement there, and nothing that I would call misleading. So, let's see, he said that putting a Mpingo disc on gear makes it sound better than before. If he'd written instead that painting a car red made it go faster than before, you wouldn't find anything wrong about that either? Well, what if he said that painting a car red made it look better, would you have a problem with that? Because that's a better analogy, due to the subjective nature of evaluating sound. |
#55
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On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 18:58:28 GMT, "
wrote: "dave weil" wrote in message .. . On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 23:17:36 GMT, " wrote: It is one of the reasons I stopped subscribing in the first place. The only reason I get it now is because my wife re-subscribed in order to help with a fundraiser for my son's school. The Mpingo disk article, is a classic case of stupidity and fraud.. The fact that you have spent good money to subscribe to a magazine that you detest is the classic case of stupidity. I didn't, my wife did without my knowledge. Why didn't you cancel the subscription. Mr. Atkinson is laughing all the way to the bank. As do many con artists. You are acquainted with a lot of them, are you? |
#56
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John Atkinson wrote:
wrote: John Atkinson wrote: wrote: John Atkinson wrote: It appears you misunderstood both Mr. Welch's question and my response, Mr. Krueger. Mr. Welch was quite clearly referring to a purported Stereophile review of the "Shakti Hallographic Soundfield Optimizer." As I can't find any such review in my index, I was asking Mr. Welch for help in finding it. Mea Culpa! I confused the "Shakti Hallograph Soundfield Optimizer" with the "Shakti Electromagnetic Stabilizer". Or perhaps you were misled by James Randi's implication on his website that Wayne Donnelly's review of the "Hallographic Soundfield Optimizer" had appeared in Stereophile? If I were easily misled, Mr. Atkinson, I would be a loyal Stereophile reader. Do you see Randi everywhere, Mr. Atkinson? No, I was specifically referring to a message in another current thread to which you are posting, specifically: -------------------------------------------- (Chevdo) wrote to joseph_welch in message MQrVe.269840$on1.40437@clgrps13 on Tue, 13 Sep 2005 03:38:20 GMT In article .com, says... The man is a repugnant malignancy: http://snipurl.com/hmrq ... http://www.randi.org/jr/120304youve.html#2 --------------------------------------------- The URL above takes you to an essay by Randi in which he presents a review of the "Hallograph" as though it had appeared in Stereophile. As the posting was in response to you, I assumed that it was that that had triggered your outburst of bile. If I were a huckster and conman like yourself, an intelligent, persistent, hard-nosed sceptic like Randi would get under my skin, too. Oh dear, Mr. Welch, you really do appear to have got panties in a wad. :-) This is akin to confusing the Green Bottle of "medicine" with the Blue Bottle of "medicine" at an old traveling "Medicine Show"; both are likely equally ineffective and fraudulent. And you know that how, Mr. Welch? When did you try these devices for yourself? Which one? The Blue Bottle or the Green Bottle? Don't be coy, Mr. Welch, You have expressed a strong opinion on these accessories. Surely you have tried them, to be so sure that they are ineffective? Or are you, like Randi, simply making things up? Perhaps oou need to try some anger-managment strategies before you next come out from behind the safety of your PC screen. :-) The safety of my PC screen, Mr. Atkinson? Would you like me to publicly call you out for being the conman and huckster that you are at the next Stereophile event, Mr. Atkinson? If so, please let me know. It would be my great pleasure to grant you your wish, Mr. Atkinson. John Atkinson Editor, Stereophile |
#57
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surf wrote:
wrote A much more likely scenario, Mr. Atkinson, is that your reviewers are either deluded, incompetent and/or corrupt and cynical. A possible scenario then, is that the reviewers perceived something you don't understand. Given the possible scenario you've pointed out, a certainty is that you're an asshole. Ah, a True Believer, gullible and credulous! Without doubt, Mr. Atkinsons's favorite type; the very foundation of his scams. What else do you believe in? Astrology? The Akashic record? Psychic readings? Tarot Cards? The Afterlife? Oh, and can't you do better than juvenile insults, grasshopper? |
#58
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wrote in message
oups.com John Atkinson wrote: Perhaps oou need to try some anger-managment strategies before you next come out from behind the safety of your PC screen. :-) The safety of my PC screen, Mr. Atkinson? Would you like me to publicly call you out for being the conman and huckster that you are at the next Stereophile event, Mr. Atkinson? If so, please let me know. It would be my great pleasure to grant you your wish, Mr. Atkinson. Atkinson tried to pull this same BS with me, apparently forgetting that he and I were face-to-face for about an hour at HE2005 just a few months before. Since he was present at Fremer's little hissy fit, he knows that I stand my ground pretty well. |
#59
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#61
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"Arny Krueger" wrote in message ... Right now you've got some of the biggest boobs in the history of Usenet on your team. Admit it, you have no chanc at all with Maggie. |
#62
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"John Atkinson" wrote in message ups.com... Arny Krueger wrote: "Harry Lavo" wrote in message news "Arny Krueger" wrote in message ... Hmm, truth is stranger than fiction, slippery wording, or what have you: http://www.stereophile.com/features/69/index2.html ...Please follow up on the URL above - the rest of this Atkinson-approved article just gets stranger and stranger and stranger... As usual, Arny, you are being disingenuous. You don't reveal that what you are quoting from is a man's column, not a review. I provided a link to the *entire article*. No, Mr. Krueger, your link takes the reader to _page 3_ of the Web reprint, _not_ the entire article. This is what I was referring to in the posting to which to you seem to have taken exception. The correct URL, which takes readers to the beginning of the full reprint, which includes an introductory comment by myself, is http://www.stereophile.com/features/69 . John Atkinson Editor, Stereophile Is this due to Arny's debating trade tactics or to his general ineptness on web issues? |
#63
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"Arny Krueger" wrote in message ... Even though I keep tripping Atkinson up in childish deceptions, someone at least semi-competent did the site design for his ragazine. Maybe JA will be nice enough to give you his name. |
#64
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"George Middius" wrote in message ... duh-Mikey falls down and goes splat. The fact that you have spent good money to subscribe to a magazine that you detest is the classic case of stupidity. I didn't, my wife did without my knowledge. What does that tell you, Mickey? That I know more about audio magazines than she does. She knew only that it was about audio and figured I would enjoy it. |
#65
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"dave weil" wrote in message ... On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 18:58:28 GMT, " wrote: "dave weil" wrote in message . .. On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 23:17:36 GMT, " wrote: It is one of the reasons I stopped subscribing in the first place. The only reason I get it now is because my wife re-subscribed in order to help with a fundraiser for my son's school. The Mpingo disk article, is a classic case of stupidity and fraud.. The fact that you have spent good money to subscribe to a magazine that you detest is the classic case of stupidity. I didn't, my wife did without my knowledge. Why didn't you cancel the subscription. Unlike some people, I can separate the gibberish from the worthwhile. It was part of a fundraiser for my son's school. Mr. Atkinson is laughing all the way to the bank. As do many con artists. You are acquainted with a lot of them, are you? Only from seeing their names in the news. |
#66
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"George M. Middius" cmndr [underscore] george [at] comcast [dot] net wrote in message ... Mr.T said: Could it possibly be that Scull and Willis are right and you are wrong, Mr. Welch? If they were, they would have provided proof. I can see why you hide behind an anonym. Nobody as dumb as you wants his real identity known. If irony killed. |
#67
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"Mr.T" MrT@home wrote in message u... "George M. Middius" cmndr [underscore] george [at] comcast [dot] net wrote in message ... I can see why you hide behind an anonym. Nobody as dumb as you wants his real identity known. Actually it is far more stupid to expose your ignorance openly to the world as you do. He'snot really exposing anything since there is no such person as George Middius posting to RAO. |
#68
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"Sander deWaal" wrote in message ... Steven Sullivan said: If he'd written instead that painting a car red made it go faster than before, you wouldn't find anything wrong about that either? But that's true. Ever seen a green Ferrari? :-) only in my rear view mirror. |
#69
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" wrote in message link.net... "George Middius" wrote in message ... duh-Mikey falls down and goes splat. The fact that you have spent good money to subscribe to a magazine that you detest is the classic case of stupidity. I didn't, my wife did without my knowledge. What does that tell you, Mickey? That I know more about audio magazines than she does. She knew only that it was about audio and figured I would enjoy it. perhaps this mag is more to your liking. http://news.nationalgeographic.com/k...atingbugs.html |
#70
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" wrote in message link.net... "dave weil" wrote in message ... On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 18:58:28 GMT, " wrote: "dave weil" wrote in message ... On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 23:17:36 GMT, " wrote: It is one of the reasons I stopped subscribing in the first place. The only reason I get it now is because my wife re-subscribed in order to help with a fundraiser for my son's school. The Mpingo disk article, is a classic case of stupidity and fraud.. The fact that you have spent good money to subscribe to a magazine that you detest is the classic case of stupidity. I didn't, my wife did without my knowledge. Why didn't you cancel the subscription. Unlike some people, I can separate the gibberish from the worthwhile. It was part of a fundraiser for my son's school. She should have chosen this one from the 'menu'. http://www.planetscott.com/babes/wavearticle.asp |
#71
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wrote ...
surf wrote: wrote A much more likely scenario, Mr. Atkinson, is that your reviewers are either deluded, incompetent and/or corrupt and cynical. A possible scenario then, is that the reviewers perceived something you don't understand. Given the possible scenario you've pointed out, a certainty is that you're an asshole. Ah, a True Believer, gullible and credulous! Without doubt, Mr. Atkinsons's favorite type; the very foundation of his scams. What else do you believe in? Astrology? The Akashic record? Psychic readings? Tarot Cards? The Afterlife? oops, now you've made an assumption. I was merely pointing out the possible scenario that YOU alluded to above. Oh, and can't you do better than juvenile insults, grasshopper? not an insult - just an observation, esquire. |
#72
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John Atkinson wrote:
wrote: John Atkinson wrote: Perhaps [you] need to try some anger-management strategies before you next come out from behind the safety of your PC screen. :-) The safety of my PC screen, Mr. Atkinson? Would you like me to publicly call you out for being the conman and huckster that you are at the next Stereophile event, Mr. Atkinson? Why not, Mr. Welch. Your dime, your foot, so to speak. The next Stereophile Show takes palce at the Sheraton Gateway Hotel at LAX, June 1-4, 2006. If you want to turn up at one of the "Ask the Editors" sessions and confront me and my writers, you have every right to do so. It's a date then, Mr. Atkinson! See you in Los Angeles next June, you conman, huckster and fraud. And tell Mr. Fremer that he best behave himself. John Atkinson Editor, Stereophile |
#73
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On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 00:07:00 -0500, dave weil
wrote: On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 23:17:36 GMT, " wrote: It is one of the reasons I stopped subscribing in the first place. The only reason I get it now is because my wife re-subscribed in order to help with a fundraiser for my son's school. The Mpingo disk article, is a classic case of stupidity and fraud.. The fact that you have spent good money to subscribe to a magazine that you detest is the classic case of stupidity. Mr. Atkinson is laughing all the way to the bank. Well, they damn-near GIVE the thing away... |
#74
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Arny Krueger wrote:
wrote in message oups.com John Atkinson wrote: Perhaps oou need to try some anger-managment strategies before you next come out from behind the safety of your PC screen. :-) The safety of my PC screen, Mr. Atkinson? Would you like me to publicly call you out for being the conman and huckster that you are at the next Stereophile event, Mr. Atkinson? If so, please let me know. It would be my great pleasure to grant you your wish, Mr. Atkinson. Atkinson tried to pull this same BS with me, apparently forgetting that he and I were face-to-face for about an hour at HE2005 just a few months before. Since he was present at Fremer's little hissy fit, he knows that I stand my ground pretty well. Not a surprise, really. Mr. Atkinson is the one who hides behind his magazine and his PC. He'll probably crap his trousers come next June. |
#75
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"Clyde Slick" wrote in message
news "Arny Krueger" wrote in message ... Right now you've got some of the biggest boobs in the history of Usenet on your team. Admit it, you have no chance at all with Maggie. Never have been attracted to big boobs. |
#76
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dizzy said: The fact that you have spent good money to subscribe to a magazine that you detest is the classic case of stupidity. Mr. Atkinson is laughing all the way to the bank. Well, they damn-near GIVE the thing away... So a few more paid subs won't benefit the Lords of Subjectivism at all, right? |
#77
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Arnii has a new wind-up toy. Probably Petey Axelgrease's sockpuppet. Not a surprise, really. Mr. Atkinson is the one who hides behind his magazine and his PC. He'll probably crap his trousers come next June. Did you ever try to actually hit somebody with those stumpy little midget-arms? |
#78
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"Clyde Slick" wrote in message news " wrote in message link.net... "George Middius" wrote in message ... duh-Mikey falls down and goes splat. The fact that you have spent good money to subscribe to a magazine that you detest is the classic case of stupidity. I didn't, my wife did without my knowledge. What does that tell you, Mickey? That I know more about audio magazines than she does. She knew only that it was about audio and figured I would enjoy it. perhaps this mag is more to your liking. http://news.nationalgeographic.com/k...atingbugs.html Still George's bitch I see. |
#79
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"surf" wrote in message news wrote A much more likely scenario, Mr. Atkinson, is that your reviewers are either deluded, incompetent and/or corrupt and cynical. A possible scenario then, is that the reviewers perceived something you don't understand. How could they perceive the impossible without being both deluded and incompetent? Don't you think a claim as wierd as those being made for Mpingo disks or Shakti Stones deserves some technical measurments? That none have been offered pretty much says it all IMO. Given the possible scenario you've pointed out, a certainty is that you're an asshole. |
#80
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"surf" wrote in message
news wrote A much more likely scenario, Mr. Atkinson, is that your reviewers are either deluded, incompetent and/or corrupt and cynical. A possible scenario then, is that the reviewers perceived something you don't understand. Not likely given that I understand the smell of money well enough. |
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