[RichD]

http://tinyurl.com/wsj-headphones

Seems pricey to me.
Is it necessary to spend this much, for good headphones?

--
Rich

[Audio Empire]

On Wed, 19 Oct 2011 09:23:43 -0700, RichD wrote
(in article ):

http://tinyurl.com/wsj-headphones

Seems pricey to me.
Is it necessary to spend this much, for good headphones?

--
Rich


Good headphones, like good speakers, are fairly expensive. OK headphones can
be had for a lot less but don't expect them to perform like the expensive
ones, some of which sound spectacularly real (Stax, HiFiMan, AKG, Sennheiser,
etc.)

[Edmund[_2_]]

On Wed, 19 Oct 2011 23:42:39 +0000, Audio Empire wrote:

On Wed, 19 Oct 2011 09:23:43 -0700, RichD wrote (in article
):

http://tinyurl.com/wsj-headphones

Seems pricey to me.
Is it necessary to spend this much, for good headphones?

--
Rich


Good headphones, like good speakers, are fairly expensive. OK headphones
can be had for a lot less but don't expect them to perform like the
expensive ones, some of which sound spectacularly real (Stax, HiFiMan,
AKG, Sennheiser, etc.)

I find it remarkable that even the most expensive ones have rather poor
specs. The frequency response it not flat, they have a lot of overshoot
and frequency response above 20 kHz is mostly not shown, strange!
Any suggestion for searching and finding for the best headphone?
I am not looking for the most expensive but the best sounding AND the
best specs.
I heard a 1000 Euro senheiser with disappointing specs, but it sounds really
really good.

Edmund

[Andrew Haley]

Edmund wrote:
On Wed, 19 Oct 2011 23:42:39 +0000, Audio Empire wrote:

On Wed, 19 Oct 2011 09:23:43 -0700, RichD wrote (in article
):

Good headphones, like good speakers, are fairly expensive. OK headphones
can be had for a lot less but don't expect them to perform like the
expensive ones, some of which sound spectacularly real (Stax, HiFiMan,
AKG, Sennheiser, etc.)

I find it remarkable that even the most expensive ones have rather poor
specs. The frequency response it not flat, they have a lot of overshoot
and frequency response above 20 kHz is mostly not shown, strange!

See http://www.stereophile.com/features/808head

Andrew.

[Edmund[_2_]]

On Thu, 20 Oct 2011 15:26:57 +0000, Andrew Haley wrote:

Edmund wrote:
On Wed, 19 Oct 2011 23:42:39 +0000, Audio Empire wrote:

On Wed, 19 Oct 2011 09:23:43 -0700, RichD wrote (in article
):

Good headphones, like good speakers, are fairly expensive. OK
headphones can be had for a lot less but don't expect them to perform
like the expensive ones, some of which sound spectacularly real (Stax,
HiFiMan, AKG, Sennheiser, etc.)

I find it remarkable that even the most expensive ones have rather poor
specs. The frequency response it not flat, they have a lot of overshoot
and frequency response above 20 kHz is mostly not shown, strange!

See http://www.stereophile.com/features/808head

Andrew.


OK .... Bloody hell, I didn't knew that :-)
Makes me wonder what kind of measurements are done to solve this
enigma and I how manufacturers managed to build such "weird" frequency
response in there headphones IF done on purpose!
Thank you and others for this info.

Edmund

[Audio Empire]

On Fri, 21 Oct 2011 06:13:01 -0700, Edmund wrote
(in article ):

On Thu, 20 Oct 2011 15:26:57 +0000, Andrew Haley wrote:

Edmund wrote:
On Wed, 19 Oct 2011 23:42:39 +0000, Audio Empire wrote:

On Wed, 19 Oct 2011 09:23:43 -0700, RichD wrote (in article
):

Good headphones, like good speakers, are fairly expensive. OK
headphones can be had for a lot less but don't expect them to perform
like the expensive ones, some of which sound spectacularly real (Stax,
HiFiMan, AKG, Sennheiser, etc.)

I find it remarkable that even the most expensive ones have rather poor
specs. The frequency response it not flat, they have a lot of overshoot
and frequency response above 20 kHz is mostly not shown, strange!

See http://www.stereophile.com/features/808head

Andrew.


OK .... Bloody hell, I didn't knew that :-)
Makes me wonder what kind of measurements are done to solve this
enigma and I how manufacturers managed to build such "weird" frequency
response in there headphones IF done on purpose!
Thank you and others for this info.

Edmund



There is a "standard" ear cavity for measuring headphones. It contains an
omnidirectional microphone diaphragm where the eardrum would be and the
cavity between the headphone's transducer and the microphone's diaphragm is
the same volume and shape as the average human inner-ear. However, whether
all manufacturers use this, or how accurate it is in the real world, I don't
know, but I suspect that all headphone makers use something similar.

[Ed Seedhouse[_2_]]

On Oct 20, 7:34=A0am, Edmund wrote:

I find it remarkable that even the most expensive ones have rather poor
specs. The frequency response it not flat, they have a lot of overshoot
and frequency response above 20 kHz is mostly not shown, strange!

Headphone frequency response measurements are a real problem because
everyone's ears and ear canals are different. Two low cost phones
that I find excellent are the Sennheiser PX-100 and the Koss Porta
Pro. Koss will replace the latter free of charge for life no matter
how you break it. The former I found more comfortable to wear. I
like them because of a lack of obvious midrange colorations which so
many cheap phones come with. They are both well under a hundred
dollars.

My expensive $450.00 Sennheiser IE8's sound better than either of
them, I think, but certainly not $350.00 better. And IEM's require
getting used to..

[Arny Krueger[_4_]]

"Edmund" wrote in message
...

I find it remarkable that even the most expensive ones have rather poor
specs. The frequency response it not flat, they have a lot of overshoot
and frequency response above 20 kHz is mostly not shown, strange!

Somehow I perceive that perhaps you are using the sort of frequency response
we obtain with amplifiers as your reference.

A more relevant standard might be that of some other electroacoustic
transducer, perhaps a loudspeaker in a real world listening room, measured
at a distance such as is typically used for listening.

Any suggestion for searching and finding for the best headphone?

Again, is this a questionable criteria? Are you really looking for the best
headphone or are you looking for a headphone that is suitable for listening
to music?

Perhaps there are a number of headphones that are suitable, but none
appreciably better than any of the others.

I am not looking for the most expensive but the best sounding AND the
best specs.

This presumes that there are reliable and representative specifications for
headphones.

The reference given by another poster, namely

http://www.stereophile.com/features/808head/index.html

is IME a good one. Among other things it explains why we don't know how to
reliably numerically specify headphone frequency response at this time.


I heard a 1000 Euro senheiser with disappointing specs, but it sounds
really
really good.

That might be a gigantic clue to the questionable status of headphone
specifications.

[Audio Empire]

On Thu, 20 Oct 2011 07:34:17 -0700, Edmund wrote
(in article ):

On Wed, 19 Oct 2011 23:42:39 +0000, Audio Empire wrote:

On Wed, 19 Oct 2011 09:23:43 -0700, RichD wrote (in article
):

http://tinyurl.com/wsj-headphones

Seems pricey to me.
Is it necessary to spend this much, for good headphones?

--
Rich


Good headphones, like good speakers, are fairly expensive. OK headphones
can be had for a lot less but don't expect them to perform like the
expensive ones, some of which sound spectacularly real (Stax, HiFiMan,
AKG, Sennheiser, etc.)

I find it remarkable that even the most expensive ones have rather poor
specs. The frequency response it not flat, they have a lot of overshoot
and frequency response above 20 kHz is mostly not shown, strange!
Any suggestion for searching and finding for the best headphone?
I am not looking for the most expensive but the best sounding AND the
best specs.
I heard a 1000 Euro senheiser with disappointing specs, but it sounds really
really good.

Edmund

You can't judge headphones' specs like you do speakers. A truly 'flat'
headphone transducer wouldn't sound flat when coupled to your ear.

[Arny Krueger[_4_]]

"RichD" wrote in message
...
http://tinyurl.com/wsj-headphones

Seems pricey to me.
Is it necessary to spend this much, for good headphones?

If you are talking $100-130, then the answer is probably yes.

[Edmund[_2_]]

On Wed, 19 Oct 2011 16:23:43 +0000, RichD wrote:

http://tinyurl.com/wsj-headphones

Seems pricey to me.
Is it necessary to spend this much, for good headphones?

I didn't see even one expensive one, if you want "high end" yes
you need to spend a lot more and a special amplifier too.
If you are happy with a $200 model and a normal amp that is up
to you.

Edmund

[Arny Krueger[_4_]]

"Edmund" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 19 Oct 2011 16:23:43 +0000, RichD wrote:

http://tinyurl.com/wsj-headphones

Seems pricey to me.
Is it necessary to spend this much, for good headphones?

I didn't see even one expensive one, if you want "high end" yes
you need to spend a lot more and a special amplifier too.
If you are happy with a $200 model and a normal amp that is up
to you.

IME, a person who can't be reasonably happy with one of the really good
$100-200 headphones or earphones is paying too much attention to price tags,
and not paying enough attention to the sound.

[Edmund[_2_]]

On Thu, 20 Oct 2011 22:09:21 +0000, Arny Krueger wrote:

"Edmund" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 19 Oct 2011 16:23:43 +0000, RichD wrote:

http://tinyurl.com/wsj-headphones

Seems pricey to me.
Is it necessary to spend this much, for good headphones?

I didn't see even one expensive one, if you want "high end" yes you
need to spend a lot more and a special amplifier too. If you are happy
with a $200 model and a normal amp that is up to you.

IME, a person who can't be reasonably happy with one of the really good
$100-200 headphones or earphones is paying too much attention to price
tags, and not paying enough attention to the sound.

Reasonable happy, sure.
The reason why I have my opinion is something that started with a friend of mine.
He owns a 500 Euro headphone and was "reasonable happy" with it but somehow he
had a "feeling" it should perform even better.
After a while he listened to his own headphone but trough an special build headphone-amp
and the difference is nothing less than amazing, he was absolutely flabbergasted.
He brought his own CD's and SACD's and could hardly believe his ears, long story
short, he bought the 1500 euro headphone amp and is very happy with it.
I listened to this set and the even more expensive sennheiser ( with the poor specs :-) )
and never heard anything better.

Edmund

[Audio Empire]

On Fri, 21 Oct 2011 06:13:08 -0700, Edmund wrote
(in article ):

On Thu, 20 Oct 2011 22:09:21 +0000, Arny Krueger wrote:

"Edmund" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 19 Oct 2011 16:23:43 +0000, RichD wrote:

http://tinyurl.com/wsj-headphones

Seems pricey to me.
Is it necessary to spend this much, for good headphones?

I didn't see even one expensive one, if you want "high end" yes you
need to spend a lot more and a special amplifier too. If you are happy
with a $200 model and a normal amp that is up to you.

IME, a person who can't be reasonably happy with one of the really good
$100-200 headphones or earphones is paying too much attention to price
tags, and not paying enough attention to the sound.

Reasonable happy, sure.
The reason why I have my opinion is something that started with a friend of
mine.
He owns a 500 Euro headphone and was "reasonable happy" with it but somehow
he
had a "feeling" it should perform even better.
After a while he listened to his own headphone but trough an special build
headphone-amp
and the difference is nothing less than amazing, he was absolutely
flabbergasted.
He brought his own CD's and SACD's and could hardly believe his ears, long
story
short, he bought the 1500 euro headphone amp and is very happy with it.
I listened to this set and the even more expensive sennheiser ( with the poor

specs :-) )
and never heard anything better.

Edmund

I've heard a lot of headphones in my time. They all sound different (much
like speakers, how about that!). The best I've ever heard were the Stax
SR-007 MKII with the matching Stax amplifier. But at almost US$5000, that
ensemble ought to sound good! Next best were the HiFiMan HE-6 for US$1200.
But again, for that money they should sound good. really good headphones from
Denon, Audio Technica, Sennheiser, and AKG can be had for less than US$500
though and I'm especially fond of both the AKG-701s (US$350) and the
Sennheiser HK-650s (~US$400) even though I own neither.

What I have is a pair of AKG K-340 electrostatic/magnetic hybrid phones from
the mid 80's. I've had them for more than 20 years and they still work and
sound great. I had to replace the bungie-cord suspension for the headband
once and replace the self-tapping screws that hold the headband suspension
together with a small machine screw and nut arrangement, but the headphones
still work well and sound great (the electrostatic element is an electret,
and so the K-340s don't need a power supply like most electrostatic
headphones. They just plug-in to any headphone jack.)

Stax makes a model sold without an amplifier called the SR-307 that's part of
their "Lambda" series and sells for less than US$500 on the street, but this
is WITHOUT amplifier, and you cannot use Stax's in a regular headphone jack.

I hope this helps you make a short list of headphones to listen to.

[Dave C]

"Audio Empire" wrote in message
...

snip

I've heard a lot of headphones in my time. They all sound different (much
like speakers, how about that!). The best I've ever heard were the Stax
SR-007 MKII with the matching Stax amplifier. But at almost US$5000, that
ensemble ought to sound good!

I have very fond memories of a Stax electostatic headphone and amp set from
the early eighties. On a good recording they put everything else to shame.
like putting on an auditorium. They were not mine unfortunately - not sure
of the model number any more, but they were worth more than my car at the
time!

Dave


--- Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net/ - Complaints to ---

[Arny Krueger[_4_]]

"Audio Empire" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 21 Oct 2011 06:13:08 -0700, Edmund wrote

I've heard a lot of headphones in my time. They all sound different (much
like speakers, how about that!). The best I've ever heard were the Stax
SR-007 MKII with the matching Stax amplifier. But at almost US$5000, that
ensemble ought to sound good! Next best were the HiFiMan HE-6 for
US$1200.
But again, for that money they should sound good. really good headphones
from
Denon, Audio Technica, Sennheiser, and AKG can be had for less than US$500
though and I'm especially fond of both the AKG-701s (US$350) and the
Sennheiser HK-650s (~US$400) even though I own neither.

If you understand how headphones work, the technical justification for
the use of electrostatic drive as compared to electrodynamic drive is
even weaker than it is for loudspeakers.

While the Stax electrostatic headphones are legendary, expensive,
heavy and bulky, there is plenty of evidence that these distractions
are unnecessary. I've compared Stax electrostatics to the better
Sennheiser headphones, and find their sonics to be comparable, albeit
a little different.

A friend of mine who worked for a leading electroacoustic measurement
company tells me that in laboratory tests and in controlled listening
tests, preferences among the better headphones are mixed. No doubt the
Stax are fine performers, but so are many others.

The leading problem with the best-performing headphones is the issue
of tailoring the response of the headphones to the particular
listener's ears. There is a wealth of positive experience with various
technical approaches to this problem that come out of the business of
fitting hearing aids.

If the listener is somehow able to use an equalizer to tailor the
response of a pair of some of the better headphones to suit his ears
and preferences, then he no doubt is way ahead of those who spend far
more time and money on random solutions. A major problem is that
proper use of equalizers is a learned skill that may take years of
experience to raise to a sufficient level of competency to provide
satisfactory results.