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  #1   Report Post  
caveplayer
 
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I almost afraid of the response I'll get in this group but what the
hell. Be gentle, I'm a novice. Just bought a new computer and want to
do some home recording, mainly acoustic/classical guitar, bass (low
volume stuff). It was suggested to me (in the classical guitar google
group) that I need at the very least, a good mic (they suggested Shure
SM58, AKG C1000s, AudioTechnica AT4051a), a mic preamp, and some
software (cakewalk).
Any advice, the key here is LOW BUDGET, say $500.
Do i really need a new soundcard? The one on I have is AC97 Audio
(standard with Dell).
I went on the cakewalk website and was overwhelmed with products. Can
anyone suggest what I need? I would also need music composition
software, multitracking capability, and have some cool effects and
realistic sounds at my disposal.

thanks
  #2   Report Post  
EnJneer
 
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Your budget is restrictive - but will not keep you from recording simple
songs. I started doing multitrack digital audio at home years ago on a SB
AWE64 card with a cheap-ass SM58 copy. Many of the tracks have stood the
test of time. You just have to know your limitations and work within them.

Here are my recommendations: (All prices in USD from websites - do Google
searches to find more)

For mics, go with (and I'm going to get assualted for this on the NG, I just
KNOW it) one of the cheap Chinese mics, like the B1 from Studio Projects.
They sound like much more expensive mics, at a tenth the price. The B1= $80

Pre-Amp: I would heartily recommend (again, I will probably get crap from
some about this) the Behringer MX602A 6 channel mixer (or another from this
line). Small, and supplies the phantom power that your B1 mic will need to
work. (The B1 is a condenser mic, thus requires 48V phantom power -
supplied by an outside source- to operate) The other bonus of buying this is
that not only do you get two mic pre's, but you get a 6-channel mixer with a
stereo auxilliary at an outrageously low price. Behringer MX602A= $49

Soundcard: Without knowing more about your onboard soundcard, i can't really
recommend it or not. Onboard sound has come a LONG way in tha last two
years. It was definitely unusable for multitrack recording at first, but
word is that many of the newer onboard souncards are quite funcitional. You
will have do reaserach to see if your particular one will work. If you want
to ensure that you'll at least be able to record and play multiple tracks,
get a cheap, OEM SBLive soundcard. Again, they suck as far ultra-pro
recording goes, but their quaility is, for the price, unbeatable. OEM
SBLive= $40 or less.

Softwa There are no easy answers here - but I would recomend Cakewalk's
HomeStudio to you, especially if you get the SBLive. Cakewalk's software
allows you to load Soundfont-format samples into your system memory through
the SoundBlaster Live. I assume by songwriting software, you meant the
ability to play around with samples to demo up your tracks. Soundfonts are
found all over the 'Net for free (meaning that they are of wildly varying
quality, of course) and for sale as sample sets, and are one of the best
ways to get started. HomeStudio is a baby version of SONAR a great mid-level
pro audio platform, and gets you in the upgrade chain for SONAR - software
you might want as your experience and needs grow.
HomeStudio= $129
If you are not going to be using samples and will be doing audio only, look
into Cubasis/Cubase VST from Steinberg. IMHO, Cubase blows the doors off of
any other DAW in its price range and is easier to use.
As far as effects go, so many software plug-in FX will come with DAW tha I
wouldn't worry about buying any extras. You might wnat to look into a
hardware compressor if you have extra $$$.. this would allow you to compress
signals on the way in, allowing you to record more loudly overall
(louder=better!)

Many might argue with me that, for instance, the B1 mic and the Beheringer
console are of low quality and will not last. This is true of every purchase
you make in life - you get what you pay for. But you have made it clear that
you are going for semi-pro sounds. No reason to waste money on features that
you will not need.
I have used C1s from StudioProjects before and they have sounded good for
two years. The Beheringers seem to be lasting for those who have bought
them. They are covered by good warranties too.
If you get serious about home recording, you will be upgrading later
anyway - so why not explore at a cheap rate. With these products you are
getting reasonably good components - it's so cheap simply because they are
fabricated at sweat shops in the Far East. If this does not challenge your
morality, then go for it! I wish that these products had been available when
I was starting out!

There. You're done. All for the grand total of: USD$289.00... Add taxes and
you're recording for under $400. And you'll be recording with MUCH better
equipment than I had when I started home recording; and I'm still proud of
how many of those tracks turned out. So you should be able to get some good
tracks down with the gear listed above.

Hope this helps,

--
J
Engineer/Producer
(Delete "no.spam" from my e-mail address to reply direct)


"caveplayer" wrote in message
om...
I almost afraid of the response I'll get in this group but what the
hell. Be gentle, I'm a novice. Just bought a new computer and want to
do some home recording, mainly acoustic/classical guitar, bass (low
volume stuff). It was suggested to me (in the classical guitar google
group) that I need at the very least, a good mic (they suggested Shure
SM58, AKG C1000s, AudioTechnica AT4051a), a mic preamp, and some
software (cakewalk).
Any advice, the key here is LOW BUDGET, say $500.
Do i really need a new soundcard? The one on I have is AC97 Audio
(standard with Dell).
I went on the cakewalk website and was overwhelmed with products. Can
anyone suggest what I need? I would also need music composition
software, multitracking capability, and have some cool effects and
realistic sounds at my disposal.

thanks



  #3   Report Post  
Ulrich
 
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"caveplayer" wrote in message
om...
snip
Do i really need a new soundcard?


No. You need an audio card. Take a look a M-Audio (not the 7.1 that's a
gamers card)

No matter what Creative Labs hype says ALL Sound Blaster cards, are for
gamers. Mighty fine gamer's cards too, but that's irrelevant.

Currently, I'm stuck with a Sound Blaster Audgiy Platinum, running
KX-project drivers. KX drivers are a bit beta like, but at least they let me
get true bit recordings from SPDIF. As soon as I've got the spare dollars,
I'll get an M-Audio 24/96.





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  #4   Report Post  
S O'Neill
 
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Most of this is pretty good, but there are a couple of rather broad statements
with no basis in fact, for example:

Nick J. wrote:
Shure microphones are awful, as a rule.


If you have any Shure mics (almost everyone does), use them first, then think
about buying others when you have the other equipment to make informed decisions
based on what you hear. And don't exclude anything from the mics you do try
later, just based on any particular brand.

IOW, YMMV; HTH.

  #5   Report Post  
Don
 
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"Nick J." wrote:

Shure microphones are awful, as a rule.



Not a rule I ever heard.


A C1000 or similar would serve you well.



Googling this group would come up with interesting comments about the C1000.


Don


  #6   Report Post  
Rob Adelman
 
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Don wrote:


"Nick J." wrote:


Shure microphones are awful, as a rule.



Not a rule I ever heard.


A C1000 or similar would serve you well.


Googling this group would come up with interesting comments about the C1000.


Nick must be new here

  #7   Report Post  
Thomas Bishop
 
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"Rob Adelman" wrote in message
Googling this group would come up with interesting comments about the

C1000.

Nick must be new here


Or a troll. To say that Shure mics suck and then recommend a C1000 on RAP?
Sounds like trolling to me.


  #8   Report Post  
reddred
 
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"caveplayer" wrote in message
om...
I almost afraid of the response I'll get in this group but what the
hell. Be gentle, I'm a novice. Just bought a new computer and want to
do some home recording, mainly acoustic/classical guitar, bass (low
volume stuff). It was suggested to me (in the classical guitar google
group) that I need at the very least, a good mic (they suggested Shure
SM58, AKG C1000s, AudioTechnica AT4051a), a mic preamp, and some
software (cakewalk).
Any advice, the key here is LOW BUDGET, say $500.
Do i really need a new soundcard? The one on I have is AC97 Audio
(standard with Dell).
I went on the cakewalk website and was overwhelmed with products. Can
anyone suggest what I need? I would also need music composition
software, multitracking capability, and have some cool effects and
realistic sounds at my disposal.


The Digidesign Mbox comes in at 500, plugs into your usb port, and comes
with all the software you need. But you also need some mics. You might get
an sm58, which is eternally useful, and look at buying a stereo pair of
condensors sometime in the future when you have more money.

Don't forget monitors and headphones.

jb




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Ricky W. Hunt
 
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"Martin" wrote in message
news:xL6eb.46851$I36.35265@pd7tw3no...
I own a C1000 and it makes my Martin D28 sound like a tin can.


The one I tried was pretty awful too. The one I see recommended over and
over again (for his price range) that gets rave reviews on classical guitar
especially is the Studio Projects B3 (the multi-pattern version of the B1).
The B1 should be fine too. I he doesn't need a mixer Studio Projects also
makes the VTB-1 preamp for around $130 that might work well. If he has a
Soundblaster he might just want to use it for now.


  #10   Report Post  
John L Rice
 
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"caveplayer" wrote in message
om...
I almost afraid of the response I'll get in this group but what the
hell. Be gentle, I'm a novice. Just bought a new computer and want to
do some home recording, mainly acoustic/classical guitar, bass (low
volume stuff). It was suggested to me (in the classical guitar google
group) that I need at the very least, a good mic (they suggested Shure
SM58, AKG C1000s, AudioTechnica AT4051a), a mic preamp, and some
software (cakewalk).
Any advice, the key here is LOW BUDGET, say $500.
Do i really need a new soundcard? The one on I have is AC97 Audio
(standard with Dell).
I went on the cakewalk website and was overwhelmed with products. Can
anyone suggest what I need? I would also need music composition
software, multitracking capability, and have some cool effects and
realistic sounds at my disposal.

thanks


Hi,

There are lots of variables and what if's etc but based on your $500 budget
here is a suggested setup that will get you going. For convienience I'll
just consider new equipment. The sources and prices below aren't nessesarily
the best deal, they're just for reference. Keep in mind you can save a lot
of money buying used but if you are new to recording and recording gear,
it's in your best interest to buy new from somewhere that has a good return
policy so if you get the wrong thing or it's broken you'll have a good
chance at getting it exchanged. Plan on upgrading soon and often though. ;-)

From www.bayviewproaudio.com :
ECHO MiaMidi sound card $190
PreSonus BlueTube 2 channel mic pre $150

From www.musiciansfriend.com :
Marshall MXL V57M Large-Diaphragm Condenser Mic $40
Behringer ECM8000 omni Microphone $40
Shure SM57 dynamic Instrument/Vocal Mic $90

At this point you are at $510. Bayview will have free shipping. Musician's
Friend will charge you probably $10 to $20. And you still need :

Musician's Friend :
Lo-Z Mic Cable Product #330076 2 @ $8 = $16 ( they have some for $5 each
too )
Mic stand with boom arm 2 @ $20 = $40
XLR (female) to TRS male 2 @ $14 = $28 ( to connect mic pre to sound card )

At this point you are at $609. And you still need software :

Both Steinberg ( Cubase / Cubasis ) and Cakewalk have starter packages just
under $100. Also check out N Track Studio. It's cheaper than the others and
seems well supported : http://www.fasoft.com/what_is.shtm

OK, so now you are right around $700, only $200 over budget! ( pretty good
for me! ;-) I hope you have some sort of stereo amp and speakers to monitor
on. ( although you should really get a 'real' monitoring system ASAP ) And
if you don't have headphones ( closed ear sealed type ) you'll need to spend
$30 to $100 for a pair of them.

If you really need to be under $500 right now just get :
ECHO MiaMidi sound card $190
PreSonus BlueTube 2 channel mic pre $150
Marshall MXL V57M Large-Diaphragm Condenser Mic $40 ( these are on close
out, get it now )
Behringer ECM8000 omni Microphone $40
Lo-Z Mic Cable 2 @ $5 = $10
Mic stand with boom arm 2 @ $20 = $40
XLR (female) to TRS male 2 @ $14 = $28

Which is $498, just a little over $500 with shipping, and then use the
evaluation vertion of N Track Studio until you can afford to register it for
$45. A pair of AKG K-55 headphones is only $30 if you don't have any
headphones.

Best of luck!

John L Rice





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Arny Krueger
 
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"caveplayer" wrote in message
om...

I almost afraid of the response I'll get in this group but what the
hell. Be gentle, I'm a novice. Just bought a new computer and want to
do some home recording, mainly acoustic/classical guitar, bass (low
volume stuff). It was suggested to me (in the classical guitar google
group) that I need at the very least, a good mic (they suggested Shure
SM58, AKG C1000s, AudioTechnica AT4051a), a mic preamp, and some
software (cakewalk).


Basically that's the story but for your application, it seems like a little
fine-tuning might be in order. For example, IME no way is a Shure SM58
useful for quality low-sound-level work. It's at its best as a close-working
vocal mic for power performers.

Any advice, the key here is LOW BUDGET, say $500.


Do i really need a new soundcard? The one on I have is AC97 Audio
(standard with Dell).


AC97 audio is a generic term. What you've got is bottom-end, but bottom end
is not as egregiously gruesome as it once was. One thing for sure, you don't
want to depend on its mic inputs. Purchase of a good mic preamp or cheap
console is in order. Lots of people start out with low-end Behringer mixers
serving as mic preamps and providing some control functions.

I went on the cakewalk website and was overwhelmed with products.


For a low-budget start you could use a very basic product such as Goldwave,
or freeware such as the audio editors that come with CDEX and EAC (search
google). The open source "Audacity" can also work for starting out. The
price is right - free for the download. Search google, these products always
come out near the top of the listing.

Can anyone suggest what I need?


Modern AC97 audio interfaces range from ridiculous to useful in a pinch.
Their actual implementation and performance can change in the middle of
computer production runs, at times. You might be able to run some technical
tests on the line-in/line-out performance of what you've got with a jumper
cable and this freewa http://audio.rightmark.org/

Look at everything you buy at this stage as being potentially disposable,
but yet you need good tools for learning and maybe you'll pick up a few
items you like and keep.

One cheap mic that might have a lot of potential for your application is the
MXL 603 - a low cost, but smooth cardiod that is good for micing musical
instruments, and can even be used for voice, possibly with a cheap foam pop
filter added. You can find them on eBay as new product for well under $100
each. You want one or two.

You'll probably be amazed what you can find in the way of low end Behringer
consoles for around $100 or less. They have better mic preamps than what you
find in computer sound cards, complete with phantom power (needed by the MXL
and most other modern quality mics).

If your AC97 audio interface tests well with the Audio Rightmark program,
love it! If not, under $100 sound cards like the Turtle Beach Santa Cruz or
Creative Labs Audigy make good starting points, as long as you steer clear
of their mic inputs and use them with care. Amazingly the Santa Cruz can
handle 4 concurrent channels and has good sound quality.

The software packages I just mentioned are all available for free. 3 out of
4 of them are true freeware. They will get you started with 2-channel
recording, playback and simple editing. When you are ready to move up to
multitrack, N-Track is a popular mulitchannel package that is still well
under $100. Cool Edit used to be an option but was bought up by Adobe and is
out of your price range.

Finally, you need some kind of monitoring system. A low cost stereo receiver
(e.g. KLH) and some better-quality small 2-way speakers could turn out to be
your largest single investment. Tying yourself to your home stereo could be
very awkward.

If you are really pinched for cash, I've heard some Altec computer monitor
speakers in the $50 range that didn't hurt my ears too badly. Most of the
"comes with" standard-grade computer speakers are IME pretty grim.

I would also need music composition
software, multitracking capability, and have some cool effects and
realistic sounds at my disposal.


Stick to the basics, first!



  #12   Report Post  
Scott Dorsey
 
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Nick J. wrote:

Shure microphones are awful, as a rule. A C1000 or similar would serve
you well. Look for a condenser rather than a dynamic for recording for
pointing at your guitar. It'll give you what I can only describe as a
cleaner and more vibrant sound. You can dull it down in post if you
want, but you can't brighten something that isn't there to start with.


Is this a joke?
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
  #13   Report Post  
caveplayer
 
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"Arny Krueger" wrote in message ...
"caveplayer" wrote in message
om...


Thanks for all your advice. I think I should be a bit more specific
about what i currently have. The computer is brand new,
2.4GHz, 512MB DDR SDRAM, 80GB hard drive, Sound Blaster Live! 5.1
Digital Sound Card ( i think i quotes the wrong thing the first time),
CR-RW, DVD-ROM.

The instruments and amps are high quality so the 'live sound' is
perfect.
I have a cheap Optimus (stop laughing) condenser mic. I will be
recording mostly classical guitar so if i get 1 mic i want it
optimized for that. Classical guitar has a lot of overtones and colour
that you can hear with your ear but is often lost in mics or live
recordings. I will be recording in a quiet environment. I probobly
won't need to record several tracks simultaneously. I'll lay down one
at a time. I would like the ability to add tracks generated from
computer generated sounds, say for example, plucked violin. (i really
don't know how far technology has come here, so if the violin doesn't
really sound like a violin then I'll pass on this idea).
And I am serious about the $500 budget. I prefer to buy software that
is supported and from a company that has a large number of users. I
really don't like the freeware world, and believe me, i've been there.
Someone said don't be afraid of buying used equipment, well I'm not,
but does that apply to a mic? can't they be easily damaged? Also, how
hard is it too install a soundcard?
  #14   Report Post  
Nick J.
 
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Thomas Bishop wrote:
"Rob Adelman" wrote in message

Googling this group would come up with interesting comments about the


C1000.

Nick must be new here


Or my experience with AKG microphones is favourable.

Or a troll. To say that Shure mics suck and then recommend a C1000 on RAP?
Sounds like trolling to me.


And that my experience with Shure microphones isn't.

--
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  #15   Report Post  
Nick J.
 
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Ricky W. Hunt wrote:

"Martin" wrote in message
news:xL6eb.46851$I36.35265@pd7tw3no...

I own a C1000 and it makes my Martin D28 sound like a tin can.


The one I tried was pretty awful too. The one I see recommended over and
over again (for his price range) that gets rave reviews on classical guitar
especially is the Studio Projects B3 (the multi-pattern version of the B1).
The B1 should be fine too. I he doesn't need a mixer Studio Projects also
makes the VTB-1 preamp for around $130 that might work well. If he has a
Soundblaster he might just want to use it for now.


Are the SP B1 and B3 the same as their Behringer namesakes?

I've never seen them about the place over here.

--
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  #16   Report Post  
KikeG
 
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Live! cards (as all Creative cards) perform substantially better at 48
KHz than at 44.1 KHz, both at playback and at recording. In fact, at
that frequency they perform quite well in most cases, but it could be
be a good idea to run a RMAA loopback test in order to rule out noise
problems. Another good thing to know is that in these Live cards the
rear outputs provide better quality than the front ones.

So you better do all your work at 48 KHz and if you need, downsample
the final result to 44.1 KHz. For that you can use a free program
called SSRC (do a Google search). Its quality has absolutely nothing
to envy to any other "professional" sample rate converter.
  #17   Report Post  
Ricky W. Hunt
 
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"Nick J." wrote in message
...
Ricky W. Hunt wrote:
Are the SP B1 and B3 the same as their Behringer namesakes?


Behringers are Mackie clones. Mackie doesn't make mics AFAIK. The SP's just
happen to have similar model numbers but are not related whatsoever.


  #18   Report Post  
Stephan Patterson
 
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Le 29 Sep 2003 12:35:16 -0700, (caveplayer) a écrit
:

I almost afraid of the response I'll get in this group but what the
hell. Be gentle, I'm a novice. Just bought a new computer and want to
do some home recording, mainly acoustic/classical guitar, bass (low
volume stuff). It was suggested to me (in the classical guitar google
group) that I need at the very least, a good mic (they suggested Shure
SM58, AKG C1000s, AudioTechnica AT4051a), a mic preamp, and some
software (cakewalk).
Any advice, the key here is LOW BUDGET, say $500.


I'm going down the same path, trying to record things at home for my
own enjoyment.

You will get many disparaging comments regarding the AKG C1000S in
this newsgroup. I've been reading this group for a couple of months.
I'm always amazed at the number of people who claim the C1000S is a
terrible product. How many have first hand experience with them (and
why the heck did they buy one in the first place if they think it is
that bad?) versus those who just concur so they'll appear to have a
popular opinion on a pro newsgroup.

I own an AKG C1000S. I mostly use mine as a stage mic, that's what I
bought it for. I think it is a very good mic for that purpose, in my
opinion superior to the Shure SM58. In the next few days (once I've
bought a small mixer) I'm going to try recording with it. I know
others who are getting good results with it so I'm confident. That
being said, if your total budget is $500, there is no way I would
spend $200 plus tax on the AKG C1000S or any other microphone.

Stephan Patterson
  #19   Report Post  
Scott Dorsey
 
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Stephan Patterson wrote:

You will get many disparaging comments regarding the AKG C1000S in
this newsgroup. I've been reading this group for a couple of months.
I'm always amazed at the number of people who claim the C1000S is a
terrible product. How many have first hand experience with them (and
why the heck did they buy one in the first place if they think it is
that bad?) versus those who just concur so they'll appear to have a
popular opinion on a pro newsgroup.


I've used it. It's very harsh on top.

I own an AKG C1000S. I mostly use mine as a stage mic, that's what I
bought it for. I think it is a very good mic for that purpose, in my
opinion superior to the Shure SM58. In the next few days (once I've
bought a small mixer) I'm going to try recording with it. I know
others who are getting good results with it so I'm confident. That
being said, if your total budget is $500, there is no way I would
spend $200 plus tax on the AKG C1000S or any other microphone.


The SM-58 has no top end at all. The C1000S has an exaggerated and harsh
top end. They are two very distinct extremes.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
  #20   Report Post  
EnJneer
 
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Careful what you say. This NG has some serious pros on it. I would venture a
guess that most of the people who have posted on the C1000 have had
experience with it. I have, and found it the kind of mic you'd use in only
certain circumstances. Certainly not a Swiss army knife-style mic. For the
buck it's an OK mic, though.

--
J
Freelance Engineer Producer
(Delete "no.spam" from my e-mail address to reply direct)


"Stephan Patterson" wrote in message
...
Le 29 Sep 2003 12:35:16 -0700, (caveplayer) a écrit
:

I almost afraid of the response I'll get in this group but what the
hell. Be gentle, I'm a novice. Just bought a new computer and want to
do some home recording, mainly acoustic/classical guitar, bass (low
volume stuff). It was suggested to me (in the classical guitar google
group) that I need at the very least, a good mic (they suggested Shure
SM58, AKG C1000s, AudioTechnica AT4051a), a mic preamp, and some
software (cakewalk).
Any advice, the key here is LOW BUDGET, say $500.


I'm going down the same path, trying to record things at home for my
own enjoyment.

You will get many disparaging comments regarding the AKG C1000S in
this newsgroup. I've been reading this group for a couple of months.
I'm always amazed at the number of people who claim the C1000S is a
terrible product. How many have first hand experience with them (and
why the heck did they buy one in the first place if they think it is
that bad?) versus those who just concur so they'll appear to have a
popular opinion on a pro newsgroup.

I own an AKG C1000S. I mostly use mine as a stage mic, that's what I
bought it for. I think it is a very good mic for that purpose, in my
opinion superior to the Shure SM58. In the next few days (once I've
bought a small mixer) I'm going to try recording with it. I know
others who are getting good results with it so I'm confident. That
being said, if your total budget is $500, there is no way I would
spend $200 plus tax on the AKG C1000S or any other microphone.

Stephan Patterson





  #21   Report Post  
Nick J.
 
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Ricky W. Hunt wrote:

"Nick J." wrote in message
...

Ricky W. Hunt wrote:
Are the SP B1 and B3 the same as their Behringer namesakes?


Behringers are Mackie clones. Mackie doesn't make mics AFAIK. The SP's just
happen to have similar model numbers but are not related whatsoever.


That doesn't make sense.

The Behringer B1 and B3 are microphones. Were you meaning that
Behringer's desks are "Mackie clones"?

--
Now playing:

  #22   Report Post  
Nick J.
 
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Ricky W. Hunt wrote:

"Nick J." wrote in message
...

Ricky W. Hunt wrote:
Are the SP B1 and B3 the same as their Behringer namesakes?


Behringers are Mackie clones. Mackie doesn't make mics AFAIK. The SP's just
happen to have similar model numbers but are not related whatsoever.


That doesn't make sense.

The Behringer B1 and B3 are microphones. Were you meaning that
Behringer's desks are "Mackie clones"?

--
Now playing:

  #23   Report Post  
Mike Rivers
 
Posts: n/a
Default home recording PC


In article writes:

You will get many disparaging comments regarding the AKG C1000S in
this newsgroup. I've been reading this group for a couple of months.
I'm always amazed at the number of people who claim the C1000S is a
terrible product.


When it first came out, it was kind of revolutionary, but today there
are so many better condenser microphones and they cost less money. We
just don't like to see people who haven't done a lot of research buy
one because it's

(a) An AKG mic, a respected brand name.
(b) A condenser mic for not a whole lot of money
(c) It can be powered by an internal battery.

The last reason is one that's somewhat valid.

How many have first hand experience with them (and
why the heck did they buy one in the first place if they think it is
that bad?)


If it's your first condenser mic (as it was for many people eight
years or so ago) it's not bad, in fact it's pretty darn good compared
to the beat-up mics from your band's PA system. But when you start
accumulating better (and not necessarily more expensive) mics, you
realize that you use it less and less because you like the sound of
your other mics more.

I own an AKG C1000S. I mostly use mine as a stage mic, that's what I
bought it for. I think it is a very good mic for that purpose, in my
opinion superior to the Shure SM58.


I know someone who uses on on stage for fiddle, and it's better than
an SM58 in that application. He also has some fine condenser mics that
he uses in his studio, and also some better $100 condenser mics, but
he prefers the C1000 in this one application. He doesn't use it in the
studio because he likes everything else better, always.

Around here we mostly talk about studio applications. Live sound is a
different animal. It would never occur to me to use a C1000 where I'd
use an SM58, but if it works for you, there's no reason for me to
argue.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )
  #24   Report Post  
Mike Rivers
 
Posts: n/a
Default home recording PC


In article writes:

You will get many disparaging comments regarding the AKG C1000S in
this newsgroup. I've been reading this group for a couple of months.
I'm always amazed at the number of people who claim the C1000S is a
terrible product.


When it first came out, it was kind of revolutionary, but today there
are so many better condenser microphones and they cost less money. We
just don't like to see people who haven't done a lot of research buy
one because it's

(a) An AKG mic, a respected brand name.
(b) A condenser mic for not a whole lot of money
(c) It can be powered by an internal battery.

The last reason is one that's somewhat valid.

How many have first hand experience with them (and
why the heck did they buy one in the first place if they think it is
that bad?)


If it's your first condenser mic (as it was for many people eight
years or so ago) it's not bad, in fact it's pretty darn good compared
to the beat-up mics from your band's PA system. But when you start
accumulating better (and not necessarily more expensive) mics, you
realize that you use it less and less because you like the sound of
your other mics more.

I own an AKG C1000S. I mostly use mine as a stage mic, that's what I
bought it for. I think it is a very good mic for that purpose, in my
opinion superior to the Shure SM58.


I know someone who uses on on stage for fiddle, and it's better than
an SM58 in that application. He also has some fine condenser mics that
he uses in his studio, and also some better $100 condenser mics, but
he prefers the C1000 in this one application. He doesn't use it in the
studio because he likes everything else better, always.

Around here we mostly talk about studio applications. Live sound is a
different animal. It would never occur to me to use a C1000 where I'd
use an SM58, but if it works for you, there's no reason for me to
argue.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )
  #25   Report Post  
Ricky W. Hunt
 
Posts: n/a
Default home recording PC

"Nick J." wrote in message
...
Were you meaning that
Behringer's desks are "Mackie clones"?


Yes.




  #26   Report Post  
Ricky W. Hunt
 
Posts: n/a
Default home recording PC

"Nick J." wrote in message
...
Were you meaning that
Behringer's desks are "Mackie clones"?


Yes.


  #29   Report Post  
MikeK
 
Posts: n/a
Default home recording PC


"Nick J." wrote in message
...
Ricky W. Hunt wrote:

The one I tried was pretty awful too. The one I see recommended over and
over again (for his price range) that gets rave reviews on classical

guitar
especially is the Studio Projects B3 (the multi-pattern version of the

B1).
The B1 should be fine too. I he doesn't need a mixer Studio Projects

also
makes the VTB-1 preamp for around $130 that might work well. If he has a
Soundblaster he might just want to use it for now.


Are the SP B1 and B3 the same as their Behringer namesakes?

I've never seen them about the place over here.


So back to the question: how do the Behringer B-series mics compare to the
Studio Projects mics of similar name?


  #30   Report Post  
MikeK
 
Posts: n/a
Default home recording PC


"Nick J." wrote in message
...
Ricky W. Hunt wrote:

The one I tried was pretty awful too. The one I see recommended over and
over again (for his price range) that gets rave reviews on classical

guitar
especially is the Studio Projects B3 (the multi-pattern version of the

B1).
The B1 should be fine too. I he doesn't need a mixer Studio Projects

also
makes the VTB-1 preamp for around $130 that might work well. If he has a
Soundblaster he might just want to use it for now.


Are the SP B1 and B3 the same as their Behringer namesakes?

I've never seen them about the place over here.


So back to the question: how do the Behringer B-series mics compare to the
Studio Projects mics of similar name?




  #33   Report Post  
Brian Takei
 
Posts: n/a
Default home recording PC

caveplayer ) wrote:

Hi, I'm the guy who started this thread. I enjoy reading these little
side debates but can you help me with choosing a mic for my
application.


If I understand correctly, you have never done any recording yourself,
in which case my suggestion is to hold off on buying anything except the
components that you're missing (i.e. recording software, and a cheap,
used preamp with phantom power), and spend at least a few dozen hours
doing what you can with that, paying particular attention to mic
placement.

IMO&E, what you get out of the first hundred hours of 'audio recording'
is a learning experience with the basic mechanics of recording, and the
lessons are almost entirely a function of the time and attention you put
into it, with the basic equipment being comparatively irrelevant. For
me, the best purchasing decisions were for components that I continually
grow into, rather than entertained for a while but quickly grow out of.
When you end up with the latter, it's best to be able to sell it for
little or no loss (e.g. buy it used). $500 is not much money, and the
thinner you spread it around, the more likely you are to end up with
stuff in that latter category.

That said, switching hardware is a cinch, but switching software
platforms is something to avoid if you at all can. It might not be a
mistake to spend 12+ hours each with the Sonar and Cubase SX demos, pick
your platform, commit to it with a purchase, then don't look back for
two years, ignoring any and all claims that there is something better.
If you haven't had satisfactory results in two years, it won't be due to
the wrong software, because in the right hands they will all deliver out
of the box

Sorry I don't have really have a specific mic recommendation, and you
should be suspicious of anyone that seriously claims to know "The Best
Mic" for you to record your acoustic guitar playing at your place. If
you are going to buy one, I think you'll find way more than enough
comments in the archives regarding your current crop of candidates, and
then some. Pick one and buy it, used from a reputable source if you
can. If a while later you've determined that it's not the right mic for
you (or that it is sometimes, but not always), and you know for yourself
why, you will have accomplished quite a bit, with an understanding that
you couldn't acquire by reading 10,000 usenet postings, no matter who
wrote them. Repeat the process. Borrow when you can, and ideally you
want to buy from a shop that will let you return what you don't like.
You can't know how the food tastes to you by eating a stack of menus and
restaurant reviews, and what someone else likes might make you totally
barf. You'll both be 'right' as long as you tasted for yourselves. And
changing tastes is also a part of the process.

It will be fine. Enjoy it.

- Brian
  #34   Report Post  
Brian Takei
 
Posts: n/a
Default home recording PC

caveplayer ) wrote:

Hi, I'm the guy who started this thread. I enjoy reading these little
side debates but can you help me with choosing a mic for my
application.


If I understand correctly, you have never done any recording yourself,
in which case my suggestion is to hold off on buying anything except the
components that you're missing (i.e. recording software, and a cheap,
used preamp with phantom power), and spend at least a few dozen hours
doing what you can with that, paying particular attention to mic
placement.

IMO&E, what you get out of the first hundred hours of 'audio recording'
is a learning experience with the basic mechanics of recording, and the
lessons are almost entirely a function of the time and attention you put
into it, with the basic equipment being comparatively irrelevant. For
me, the best purchasing decisions were for components that I continually
grow into, rather than entertained for a while but quickly grow out of.
When you end up with the latter, it's best to be able to sell it for
little or no loss (e.g. buy it used). $500 is not much money, and the
thinner you spread it around, the more likely you are to end up with
stuff in that latter category.

That said, switching hardware is a cinch, but switching software
platforms is something to avoid if you at all can. It might not be a
mistake to spend 12+ hours each with the Sonar and Cubase SX demos, pick
your platform, commit to it with a purchase, then don't look back for
two years, ignoring any and all claims that there is something better.
If you haven't had satisfactory results in two years, it won't be due to
the wrong software, because in the right hands they will all deliver out
of the box

Sorry I don't have really have a specific mic recommendation, and you
should be suspicious of anyone that seriously claims to know "The Best
Mic" for you to record your acoustic guitar playing at your place. If
you are going to buy one, I think you'll find way more than enough
comments in the archives regarding your current crop of candidates, and
then some. Pick one and buy it, used from a reputable source if you
can. If a while later you've determined that it's not the right mic for
you (or that it is sometimes, but not always), and you know for yourself
why, you will have accomplished quite a bit, with an understanding that
you couldn't acquire by reading 10,000 usenet postings, no matter who
wrote them. Repeat the process. Borrow when you can, and ideally you
want to buy from a shop that will let you return what you don't like.
You can't know how the food tastes to you by eating a stack of menus and
restaurant reviews, and what someone else likes might make you totally
barf. You'll both be 'right' as long as you tasted for yourselves. And
changing tastes is also a part of the process.

It will be fine. Enjoy it.

- Brian
  #35   Report Post  
Brian Takei
 
Posts: n/a
Default home recording PC

Stephan Patterson ) wrote:

I'm going down the same path, trying to record things at home for my
own enjoyment.


Me too, and them some.

You will get many disparaging comments regarding the AKG C1000S in
this newsgroup. I've been reading this group for a couple of months.
I'm always amazed at the number of people who claim the C1000S is a
terrible product. How many have first hand experience with them (and
why the heck did they buy one in the first place if they think it is
that bad?)


A corollary to that is "how much AE experience do the people opining
have?"

Speaking for myself, I give more weight to the advice of a handful of
qualified AE's with 10 years each of working AE experience, than
hundreds of hobbyists with a collective 1,000 years experience. I think
a qualified AE with less than an hour of recording/listening experience
with the X-Mic is more likely to give me more useful advice about the
quality and usefulness of said mic than a non-AE can tell me after a
year with it. The AE 'qualities' I consider paramount/distinctive a
(1) mature and discriminating ears, (2) extensive working experience
with lots of mics, and (3) a genuine interest in giving solid advice. I
find that Google's Usenet archive an excellent resource for estimating
such qualifications.

With very little change, those criteria can be applied to pretty much
any field, but what will not change is what I think George Massenburg(?)
summed up nicely: "It takes a lifetime to get just a little better".
There's a lot embedded in that statement.


versus those who just concur so they'll appear to have a
popular opinion on a pro newsgroup.


A killfile is your ally.

Boneheads aside, there are some serious audio folks in here doing very
charitable, quality deeds. If they say that a piece of gear sucks or
rocks, it's because they think it does. The irony is that what is
offered is valuable, hard-earned opinion, that is intended to help
someone select _candidates_ to judge with his/her own ears for his own
rack, but what is taken away by many-a-newbie is a deaf license to buy
(or not) x-gear with misguided expectations. Or if they already bought
it, they give themselves a pat on the back, or **** on the messengers
that have the gall to have a differing opinion.

Yes, I generalize, and I'm certainly not referring to you, Stephan.
I've been subscribed to RAP for a few years, and it turns my stomach to
see how some non-professionals come in hear seeking advice from
professionals, and react like 12 year olds in the worst of ways, doing
more damage to the collective willingness of rap's knowledge/experience
base to stick it out and help others on their way up. If that sounds
"elitist" to anyone, have you read the FAQ lately? Or ever?

But hell, who needs them "pros" anyway? Now that we also have
alt.music.home-studio, the continually dwindling population of
accomplished RAP engineer-artists can surely be compensated for by the
growing throngs locked in inbred discussions on the merits of the latest
inexpensive X-gear that's marketed to be as good as the $x,000 A-gear
that those pros are always touting as fabulous and virtually
incomparable, when the smucks are really just trying to save face with
the realization that us up-and-comers can do this **** just as well as
they, with a blissful fraction of their budget, and what we lack in
experience and ears can be made up for by reading enough help files,
getting some better sample libraries and plugs, and finding just the
right affordable sub-woofer to get beefier mixes in our "studios" with 8
foot ceilings and walls not much wider.


I own an AKG C1000S. I mostly use mine as a stage mic, that's what I
bought it for. I think it is a very good mic for that purpose, in my
opinion superior to the Shure SM58. In the next few days (once I've
bought a small mixer) I'm going to try recording with it. I know
others who are getting good results with it so I'm confident.


I've never used the C1000S, but I haven't used many mics at all. I'd
consider 30 way less than many, and I've used way less than that. As a
sort of relevant anecdote, I have bought, used for a couple years, and
sold an NT1. I can say objectively that the NT1 and SM57 have been THE
most useful mics in the world to me, and the SM57 likely has a similar
future. Useful in getting tones that I don't like, tones I like,
sometimes even with intended and repeatable results(!), but MOST
significantly a lot of education in between, not the least of which is
the ongoing lesson that my ears are immature (but getting a smidgen
better every year).

Recently a significant 'displacement' has occurred over here, brought on
by my purchase of an FMR RNP and Josephson C42 from Mercenary (and
thereafter an EV 635A and Adcom 535 elsewhere). I'm understating my
opinion of them when I say, I'm really, really glad I have them, and the
future looks brighter and clearer than ever, sunglasses optional.

This is all tempered by lessons nicely illustrated in the book Flatland.

Regards,
Brian


  #36   Report Post  
Brian Takei
 
Posts: n/a
Default home recording PC

Stephan Patterson ) wrote:

I'm going down the same path, trying to record things at home for my
own enjoyment.


Me too, and them some.

You will get many disparaging comments regarding the AKG C1000S in
this newsgroup. I've been reading this group for a couple of months.
I'm always amazed at the number of people who claim the C1000S is a
terrible product. How many have first hand experience with them (and
why the heck did they buy one in the first place if they think it is
that bad?)


A corollary to that is "how much AE experience do the people opining
have?"

Speaking for myself, I give more weight to the advice of a handful of
qualified AE's with 10 years each of working AE experience, than
hundreds of hobbyists with a collective 1,000 years experience. I think
a qualified AE with less than an hour of recording/listening experience
with the X-Mic is more likely to give me more useful advice about the
quality and usefulness of said mic than a non-AE can tell me after a
year with it. The AE 'qualities' I consider paramount/distinctive a
(1) mature and discriminating ears, (2) extensive working experience
with lots of mics, and (3) a genuine interest in giving solid advice. I
find that Google's Usenet archive an excellent resource for estimating
such qualifications.

With very little change, those criteria can be applied to pretty much
any field, but what will not change is what I think George Massenburg(?)
summed up nicely: "It takes a lifetime to get just a little better".
There's a lot embedded in that statement.


versus those who just concur so they'll appear to have a
popular opinion on a pro newsgroup.


A killfile is your ally.

Boneheads aside, there are some serious audio folks in here doing very
charitable, quality deeds. If they say that a piece of gear sucks or
rocks, it's because they think it does. The irony is that what is
offered is valuable, hard-earned opinion, that is intended to help
someone select _candidates_ to judge with his/her own ears for his own
rack, but what is taken away by many-a-newbie is a deaf license to buy
(or not) x-gear with misguided expectations. Or if they already bought
it, they give themselves a pat on the back, or **** on the messengers
that have the gall to have a differing opinion.

Yes, I generalize, and I'm certainly not referring to you, Stephan.
I've been subscribed to RAP for a few years, and it turns my stomach to
see how some non-professionals come in hear seeking advice from
professionals, and react like 12 year olds in the worst of ways, doing
more damage to the collective willingness of rap's knowledge/experience
base to stick it out and help others on their way up. If that sounds
"elitist" to anyone, have you read the FAQ lately? Or ever?

But hell, who needs them "pros" anyway? Now that we also have
alt.music.home-studio, the continually dwindling population of
accomplished RAP engineer-artists can surely be compensated for by the
growing throngs locked in inbred discussions on the merits of the latest
inexpensive X-gear that's marketed to be as good as the $x,000 A-gear
that those pros are always touting as fabulous and virtually
incomparable, when the smucks are really just trying to save face with
the realization that us up-and-comers can do this **** just as well as
they, with a blissful fraction of their budget, and what we lack in
experience and ears can be made up for by reading enough help files,
getting some better sample libraries and plugs, and finding just the
right affordable sub-woofer to get beefier mixes in our "studios" with 8
foot ceilings and walls not much wider.


I own an AKG C1000S. I mostly use mine as a stage mic, that's what I
bought it for. I think it is a very good mic for that purpose, in my
opinion superior to the Shure SM58. In the next few days (once I've
bought a small mixer) I'm going to try recording with it. I know
others who are getting good results with it so I'm confident.


I've never used the C1000S, but I haven't used many mics at all. I'd
consider 30 way less than many, and I've used way less than that. As a
sort of relevant anecdote, I have bought, used for a couple years, and
sold an NT1. I can say objectively that the NT1 and SM57 have been THE
most useful mics in the world to me, and the SM57 likely has a similar
future. Useful in getting tones that I don't like, tones I like,
sometimes even with intended and repeatable results(!), but MOST
significantly a lot of education in between, not the least of which is
the ongoing lesson that my ears are immature (but getting a smidgen
better every year).

Recently a significant 'displacement' has occurred over here, brought on
by my purchase of an FMR RNP and Josephson C42 from Mercenary (and
thereafter an EV 635A and Adcom 535 elsewhere). I'm understating my
opinion of them when I say, I'm really, really glad I have them, and the
future looks brighter and clearer than ever, sunglasses optional.

This is all tempered by lessons nicely illustrated in the book Flatland.

Regards,
Brian
  #37   Report Post  
Tony Pearce
 
Posts: n/a
Default home recording PC


"John L Rice" wrote in message
...
There are lots of variables and what if's etc but based on your $500

budget
here is a suggested setup that will get you going. For convienience I'll
just consider new equipment. The sources and prices below aren't

nessesarily
the best deal, they're just for reference. Keep in mind you can save a lot
of money buying used but if you are new to recording and recording gear,
it's in your best interest to buy new from somewhere that has a good

return
policy so if you get the wrong thing or it's broken you'll have a good
chance at getting it exchanged. Plan on upgrading soon and often though.

;-)

From www.bayviewproaudio.com :
ECHO MiaMidi sound card $190
PreSonus BlueTube 2 channel mic pre $150

From www.musiciansfriend.com :
Marshall MXL V57M Large-Diaphragm Condenser Mic $40
Behringer ECM8000 omni Microphone $40
Shure SM57 dynamic Instrument/Vocal Mic $90

At this point you are at $510. Bayview will have free shipping.

Musician's
Friend will charge you probably $10 to $20. And you still need :

Musician's Friend :
Lo-Z Mic Cable Product #330076 2 @ $8 = $16 ( they have some for $5 each
too )
Mic stand with boom arm 2 @ $20 = $40
XLR (female) to TRS male 2 @ $14 = $28 ( to connect mic pre to sound

card )

At this point you are at $609. And you still need software :

Both Steinberg ( Cubase / Cubasis ) and Cakewalk have starter packages

just
under $100. Also check out N Track Studio. It's cheaper than the others

and
seems well supported : http://www.fasoft.com/what_is.shtm

OK, so now you are right around $700, only $200 over budget! ( pretty good
for me! ;-) I hope you have some sort of stereo amp and speakers to

monitor
on. ( although you should really get a 'real' monitoring system ASAP ) And
if you don't have headphones ( closed ear sealed type ) you'll need to

spend
$30 to $100 for a pair of them.

If you really need to be under $500 right now just get :
ECHO MiaMidi sound card $190
PreSonus BlueTube 2 channel mic pre $150
Marshall MXL V57M Large-Diaphragm Condenser Mic $40 ( these are on close
out, get it now )
Behringer ECM8000 omni Microphone $40
Lo-Z Mic Cable 2 @ $5 = $10
Mic stand with boom arm 2 @ $20 = $40
XLR (female) to TRS male 2 @ $14 = $28

Which is $498, just a little over $500 with shipping, and then use the
evaluation vertion of N Track Studio until you can afford to register it

for
$45. A pair of AKG K-55 headphones is only $30 if you don't have any
headphones.


The Echo Mia already comes with a copy of Cubasis, which should be just fine
until he can afford/needs something better. Swap the Blue tube for a
Behringer UB802, and you're well under the $500 mark with headphones
included.

TonyP.



  #38   Report Post  
Tony Pearce
 
Posts: n/a
Default home recording PC


"John L Rice" wrote in message
...
There are lots of variables and what if's etc but based on your $500

budget
here is a suggested setup that will get you going. For convienience I'll
just consider new equipment. The sources and prices below aren't

nessesarily
the best deal, they're just for reference. Keep in mind you can save a lot
of money buying used but if you are new to recording and recording gear,
it's in your best interest to buy new from somewhere that has a good

return
policy so if you get the wrong thing or it's broken you'll have a good
chance at getting it exchanged. Plan on upgrading soon and often though.

;-)

From www.bayviewproaudio.com :
ECHO MiaMidi sound card $190
PreSonus BlueTube 2 channel mic pre $150

From www.musiciansfriend.com :
Marshall MXL V57M Large-Diaphragm Condenser Mic $40
Behringer ECM8000 omni Microphone $40
Shure SM57 dynamic Instrument/Vocal Mic $90

At this point you are at $510. Bayview will have free shipping.

Musician's
Friend will charge you probably $10 to $20. And you still need :

Musician's Friend :
Lo-Z Mic Cable Product #330076 2 @ $8 = $16 ( they have some for $5 each
too )
Mic stand with boom arm 2 @ $20 = $40
XLR (female) to TRS male 2 @ $14 = $28 ( to connect mic pre to sound

card )

At this point you are at $609. And you still need software :

Both Steinberg ( Cubase / Cubasis ) and Cakewalk have starter packages

just
under $100. Also check out N Track Studio. It's cheaper than the others

and
seems well supported : http://www.fasoft.com/what_is.shtm

OK, so now you are right around $700, only $200 over budget! ( pretty good
for me! ;-) I hope you have some sort of stereo amp and speakers to

monitor
on. ( although you should really get a 'real' monitoring system ASAP ) And
if you don't have headphones ( closed ear sealed type ) you'll need to

spend
$30 to $100 for a pair of them.

If you really need to be under $500 right now just get :
ECHO MiaMidi sound card $190
PreSonus BlueTube 2 channel mic pre $150
Marshall MXL V57M Large-Diaphragm Condenser Mic $40 ( these are on close
out, get it now )
Behringer ECM8000 omni Microphone $40
Lo-Z Mic Cable 2 @ $5 = $10
Mic stand with boom arm 2 @ $20 = $40
XLR (female) to TRS male 2 @ $14 = $28

Which is $498, just a little over $500 with shipping, and then use the
evaluation vertion of N Track Studio until you can afford to register it

for
$45. A pair of AKG K-55 headphones is only $30 if you don't have any
headphones.


The Echo Mia already comes with a copy of Cubasis, which should be just fine
until he can afford/needs something better. Swap the Blue tube for a
Behringer UB802, and you're well under the $500 mark with headphones
included.

TonyP.



  #39   Report Post  
caveplayer
 
Posts: n/a
Default home recording PC

Brian Takei wrote in message l.net...
caveplayer ) wrote:
- Brian


Thanks for the good advice. No reason to be hasty.
Actually i have lots of experience recording with my very minimum
equipment (Fotex 4-track, Optimus condenser mic). And true, after
playing around for hours on end, even with this 'crappy' equipment i
got a pretty decent result. After all, half the fun is in optimizing
the setup anyway.
  #40   Report Post  
caveplayer
 
Posts: n/a
Default home recording PC

Brian Takei wrote in message l.net...
caveplayer ) wrote:
- Brian


Thanks for the good advice. No reason to be hasty.
Actually i have lots of experience recording with my very minimum
equipment (Fotex 4-track, Optimus condenser mic). And true, after
playing around for hours on end, even with this 'crappy' equipment i
got a pretty decent result. After all, half the fun is in optimizing
the setup anyway.
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