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[email protected] thekmanrocks@gmail.com is offline
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Default When did you switch to CDs, and why?

Peter Larsen: "Shut up..." "Kind Regards,"

Kind of hypocritical, telling people to "shut up". Where'd you learn that from - Bill O'Reilly?

lmao...

Look in the toilet bowl for the last iota of respect I ONCE HAD for you.

I tried to make a point as best as I could on here, and some JERK is telling me to shut up? Wish I knew your Mother so I could share this with her.
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Scott Dorsey Scott Dorsey is offline
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Default When did you switch to CDs, and why?

wrote:

I tried to make a point as best as I could on here, and some JERK is telling me to shut up? Wish I knew your Mother so I could share this with her.


It's possible that they are telling you to shut up because your point is
totally irrelevant to the subject at hand.

It's also possible that they are telling you to shut up because you are
totally unable to defend your point and your inability to understand how
levels work invalidates your argument. This is bad, because overcompression
is a problem.

As someone who has worked long and hard for many years to fight against
overcompression, I have to say that people like you are not helping and
in fact are distracting public interest from the the real issue. If you
were indeed to shut up, it would help your own side.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
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Peter Larsen[_3_] Peter Larsen[_3_] is offline
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Default When did you switch to CDs, and why?

wrote:

geoff wrote "You are still confusing peak level with RMS power
content.


geoff "


Like HELL I am!


You are not a positive example of well mannered behavior in a usenet
newsgroup, cut the caps lock or expect to be flamed, that _is_ just how it
is on the usenet.

SONG A: -18RMS with 30% of loudest peaks above -3dBfs.


SONG B: -8RMS with 90% of peaks above -3dBfs.


Undefined variable "loudest peaks", if I record a violin or a concert grand
there is one sample being "loudest peaks". Total energy content is about the
area inside the envelope of the waveform. "Loudest peaks" does not mention
whether it is about one sample or about 13287, as is not unlikely for "a
brick", ie. a totally squashed something-waveform.

Both songs of same genre, similar spectral balance.


Let us take your example and define some of the variables you didn't think
very profoudly about. We assume it is the rock'n roll song "Pink Banana",
which is a studio production that has no semblance whatsoever to a real
acoustic event. To ensure that they are the same genre we choose DJ
TzunKing's remix of it as song B. And hey presto, your statement fits,
except that the difference in average level - or rms level - to a large part
is caused by DJ TzunKing's use of a DBX 120 and a TC triband compressor that
really wasn't very costly but has some nice presets he can understand. You
do NOT get that difference in RMS level without acompanying spectral change.

YOU tell ME which song is going to sound louder to the average
listener out on the street.


Trying to tell me I don't know the diff. between avg & peak level.
YUTZ.


You Sir, you behave like an idiot, please start thinking before typing,
thank you. Read up on crest factor, because then you have the tools to
express what you mean, until then I asked you to shut the **** up because
you spread confusion in your attempt to spread understanding. So go
understand before you explain and once you really has understood this
subject matter, you will find it easy to convey your well intended opinion.


Peter Larsen




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Default When did you switch to CDs, and why?

Peter Larsen:

I happen to operate from the gut. And my gut tells me, common sense, that the more you compress something, not only can you raise it's RMS, but the closer more of its peaks will continuously reside near full-scale.

You're absolutely right - most of the loudening effect occurs to the RMS, but the peaks become somewhat more sustained near FS too.

The crest factor - the ratio between the RMS and those peaks, diminishes.

Again, something even a child would know.
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geoff geoff is offline
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Default When did you switch to CDs, and why?


"Trevor" wrote in message
...
Not totally irrelevent, since most pop CD's these days are digitally
clipped to hell and back,


You sure they are 'digitally clipped' rather than 'heavily limited' ? Cos
that is pure incompetence and acheives nothing positive for anybody,
whatever their aim. And probably goes against something in the Red Book.

geoff


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hank alrich hank alrich is offline
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Default When did you switch to CDs, and why?

None wrote:

You go away for a while, but then you come back with the same Stupid that
you started with last time.


That's a keeper line.

--
shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/
http://hankandshaidrimusic.com/
http://www.youtube.com/walkinaymusic
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hank alrich hank alrich is offline
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geoff wrote:

"Trevor" wrote in message
...
Not totally irrelevent, since most pop CD's these days are digitally
clipped to hell and back,


You sure they are 'digitally clipped' rather than 'heavily limited' ? Cos
that is pure incompetence and acheives nothing positive for anybody,
whatever their aim. And probably goes against something in the Red Book.

geoff


Digital clipping is de rigueur at the mastering stage for that truly
crushed drop-a-brick-on-yer-tympanic-membrane "sound".

I wish I was joking.

--
shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/
http://hankandshaidrimusic.com/
http://www.youtube.com/walkinaymusic


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Default When did you switch to CDs, and why?

Trevor wrote: "Your gut is wrong, you can easily compress music by *reducing* the peaks,
and thus they are further from dFS. You can *increase* the "RMS" *and* also
a *reduction* in peak levels with compression. That's the way it was usually "

Yes, but when you increase the RMS(raise the level globally), those compressed peaks will be back up as close to FS as you need them to be!

Basically, it's like shaving all the buildings in manhattan to 50 stories, and then raising the entire island of manhattan(rms) up so that all those shaved buildings are at or close to peak(110 stories if we use WTC as "full scale").
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Default When did you switch to CDs, and why?

geoff wrote from under a rock "You sure they are 'digitally clipped' rather than 'heavily limited' ? Cos
that is pure incompetence and acheives nothing positive for anybody, "

Two words for you:

Death Magnetic
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None None is offline
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Default When did you switch to CDs, and why?

brownnote @ gmail.com wrote in message
...
I happen to operate from the gut. And my gut tells me, common
sense,


You'd be better off using your brain. Too bad it's
so badly damaged. Your "common sense" is a
lame euphemism for abject ignorance, and your
gut is what produces your ****.

You have no idea what you're talking about. You
may be fooling someone, somewhere, but here
in RAP, nobody's falling for it. You need elementary
training in mathematics and science, followed by
education in audio beginning from first principles.
Then you might have the basis for understanding
that you are, at this time, nothing more than a ****ing
idiot spewing from the nether end of the gut.


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Trevor Trevor is offline
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Default When did you switch to CDs, and why?


"geoff" wrote in message
...
"Trevor" wrote in message
...
Not totally irrelevent, since most pop CD's these days are digitally
clipped to hell and back,


You sure they are 'digitally clipped' rather than 'heavily limited' ?



Yep I sure am, and anyone can see for themselves by ripping something like
Brittny Spears, Katy Perry etc. into their favourite DAW and marvelling at
all those flat tops, some hundreds of samples wide! :-(
They often drop the level 0.3dB after it has been massively clipped before
going to CD, mainly to disguise the fact. I'm surprised at how many idots
argue it's not clipped just because the level has been reduced, but
obviously there's no shortage of technical illiterates or they wouldn't do
it.


Cos that is pure incompetence


Yes, but it is definitely deliberate.


and acheives nothing positive for anybody,


It achieves what they are asked to do, in a really crapper manner.


whatever their aim. And probably goes against something in the Red Book.


I don't think Red Book has anything to say about poor taste.

Trevor.


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Trevor Trevor is offline
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wrote in message
...
Trevor wrote: "Your gut is wrong, you can easily compress music by
*reducing* the peaks,
and thus they are further from dFS. You can *increase* the "RMS" *and*
also
a *reduction* in peak levels with compression. That's the way it was
usually ....


Yes, but when you increase the RMS(raise the level globally), those
compressed peaks will be back up as close to FS as you need them to be!


Simply depends on how much compression you apply and how much global gain
increase you apply. The choice is yours.
*If* you apply more compression than gain increase, you *can* increase RMS
while reducing peak levels, just as I stated.

Trevor.




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Default When did you switch to CDs, and why?

Trevor wrote: "Yep I sure am, and anyone can see for themselves by ripping something like
Brittny Spears, Katy Perry etc. into their favourite DAW and marvelling at
all those flat tops, some hundreds of samples wide! :-(
They often drop the level 0.3dB after it has been massively clipped before
going to CD, mainly to disguise the fact. I'm surprised at how many idots
argue it's not clipped just because the level has been reduced, but
obviously there's no shortage of technical illiterates or they wouldn't do "

And what you described is why I have stopped buying CDs - new ones anyway. It is not just being done to Spears and Perry and other modern acts' CDs, but to many so-called remasters of classic rock and r&b back catalog. (Though some on here might deny it in those latter cases..)

And in modern cases it's a real kick in the gut when a vinyl release of the same album reveals none of that overprocessing!

That's why all my CD shopping for the past two years has been at flea markets and thrift stores.
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Default When did you switch to CDs, and why?

Trever wrote: "
"geoff" wrote in message
...
"Trevor" wrote in message
...
Not totally irrelevent, since most pop CD's these days are digitally
clipped to hell and back,


You sure they are 'digitally clipped' rather than 'heavily limited' ?



Yep I sure am, and anyone can see for themselves by ripping something like
Brittny Spears, Katy Perry etc. into their favourite DAW and marvelling at
all those flat tops, some hundreds of samples wide! :-(
They often drop the level 0.3dB after it has been massively clipped before
going to CD, mainly to disguise the fact. I'm surprised at how many idots
argue it's not clipped just because the level has been reduced, but
obviously there's no shortage of technical illiterates or they wouldn't do
it.


Cos that is pure incompetence


Yes, but it is definitely deliberate.


and acheives nothing positive for anybody,


It achieves what they are asked to do, in a really crapper manner.


whatever their aim. And probably goes against something in the Red Book.


I don't think Red Book has anything to say about poor taste.

Trevor. "

And to add Trevor: THIS is what I've been railing about on here, the heavy CD compression and clipping, on Gearslutz, PSW, "End the loudness War"(Ian Shepard's phoney group on Facebook)!!

And all I've been told by people in those places is to "ignore the numbers" and the waveforms and just decide for yourself how it sounds.

Ironic: When I make a statement about it, I get called a troll and killfiled. When another poster makes light of it, it's alright!

I can't win...
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None None is offline
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Default When did you switch to CDs, and why?

brain damaged troll @gmail.com wrote in message
...
snip a bunch of crap where chrissie boy refuses to quote properly


When I make a statement about it, I get called a troll and
killfiled. When another poster makes light of it, it's alright!


And you're still too stupid to figure it out. You seem to like being
stupid.

I can't win...


It might help if you stopped working so hard at being a loser. But
you're too stupid to figure it out. Did you get dropped on your head a
lot as a child?

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geoff geoff is offline
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wrote in message
...
Trever wrote: "
And to add Trevor: THIS is what I've been railing about on here, the
heavy CD compression and clipping, on Gearslutz, PSW, "End the loudness
War"(Ian Shepard's phoney group on Facebook)!!

And all I've been told by people in those places is to "ignore the
numbers" and the waveforms and just decide for yourself how it sounds.

Ironic: When I make a statement about it, I get called a troll and
killfiled. When another poster makes light of it, it's alright!

I can't win...


No, you started by raving on about analogue operating levels of consoles and
somehow relating this to clipping on CDs.

geoff


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