The money should have been spent on protecting our
borders in the first place.

That woudln't have got rid of saddam though would it?

"John LeBlanc" wrote in message
...

"Steven Sena" wrote in message
...
Henry Ford one of the biggest cut throat capitalist pigs this country ever
produced...

Capitalist pig? I'm curious to know, do you charge any money for the use of
your
studio? If so, isn't that capitalism; investing in equipment, trading labor
for
profit?

God bless the capitalist pigs. Without them, socialist and communist assholes
would have no one to complain about.

John


Ah, screw it. I'm not participating any further in another stupid thread.

I personally believe a man can invest his time, energy, and capital and expect
to make whatever profit he can squeeze out of the market. The market, not being
stupid, will pay what it wants to and no more. There are enough examples of men
who, with nothing more than a good idea, went on the make millions that it's
hardly worth my wasting my time definding such a system.

Now, if that's a model that doesn't work for you, then Merry Christmas to you.
It works remarkably well for me.

John

Oh come on John cheer up...
I thought what you had to say made some good points...
I truly believe in an honest open democracy.
I even think the American system could work too...

--
Steven Sena
XS Sound
www.xssound.com


"John LeBlanc" wrote in message
...
"John LeBlanc" wrote in message
...

"Steven Sena" wrote in message
...
Henry Ford one of the biggest cut throat capitalist pigs this country
ever
produced...

Capitalist pig? I'm curious to know, do you charge any money for the use
of
your
studio? If so, isn't that capitalism; investing in equipment, trading
labor
for
profit?

God bless the capitalist pigs. Without them, socialist and communist
assholes
would have no one to complain about.

John


Ah, screw it. I'm not participating any further in another stupid thread.

I personally believe a man can invest his time, energy, and capital and
expect
to make whatever profit he can squeeze out of the market. The market, not
being
stupid, will pay what it wants to and no more. There are enough examples
of men
who, with nothing more than a good idea, went on the make millions that
it's
hardly worth my wasting my time definding such a system.

Now, if that's a model that doesn't work for you, then Merry Christmas to
you.
It works remarkably well for me.

John

he war on poverty. LBJ started that one in 1964 and it's still unresolved,
which makes sense because he called it an "unconditional war".

Want to know why it's unresolved? Because you can't throw money at a problem
that isn't rooted in money. BRBR

I always thought that a lack of money had a lot to do with poverty.

-R

"Steven Sena" wrote in message ...
Henry Ford one of the biggest cut throat capitalist pigs this country ever
produced...
And I for one will be forever grateful that he was a capitalsit. It's
the reason that we can afford luxuries like automobiles and the
freedom that they bring. Henry Ford's real problem is that he was an
anti-semite, which I despise in anyone...

What Would You Do With $87 Billion Dollars??

I'd blow some **** up and enjoy a cool frosty one watching it all go up in
smoke. It'd be major badass ****, man.




--
Dr. Nuketopia
Sorry, no e-Mail.
Spam forgeries have resulted in thousands of faked bounces to my address.

What I can't understand about this is why should we be spending that kind of
money when the country has ****loads of oil that IT could be spending to
rebuilt ITS'SELF??

maybe I need to drink some more coffee.....

laters
tuna

"John LeBlanc" wrote in message
...
"John LeBlanc" wrote in message
...

"Steven Sena" wrote in message
...
Henry Ford one of the biggest cut throat capitalist pigs this country
ever
produced...

Capitalist pig? I'm curious to know, do you charge any money for the use
of
your
studio? If so, isn't that capitalism; investing in equipment, trading
labor
for
profit?

God bless the capitalist pigs. Without them, socialist and communist
assholes
would have no one to complain about.

John


Ah, screw it. I'm not participating any further in another stupid thread.

I personally believe a man can invest his time, energy, and capital and
expect
to make whatever profit he can squeeze out of the market. The market, not
being
stupid, will pay what it wants to and no more. There are enough examples
of men
who, with nothing more than a good idea, went on the make millions that
it's
hardly worth my wasting my time definding such a system.

Now, if that's a model that doesn't work for you, then Merry Christmas to
you.
It works remarkably well for me.

John

This logic bring your 20$ gallons of water during times when the normal
outlets are non-functioning, such as after a earthquake
there needs to be checks against runaway greed
greed is the ******* child of capitalism just as sloth is the *******
child of communisim
there is a great diffrence between chargeing what ever you want for a
luxury like a sound system VS denying people the ability to feed and house
themselves

philantropy is just giveing back what you never should have taken to begin
with
George(a capitalist at heart)

Seems kind of obvious now, but nobody bothered to tell Dubbya
how foolish it is to try and bomb away all the anti-Americanism
in the world. That's downright idiotic when you think about it.

It's NOT idiotic, if you believe that America is the New Jerusalem, that we are
specially blessed by God and have a divine mission to defeat evil (ie, anything
not consistent with Protestant-American values).

Dubbya and the fundamentalists are leading the US towards a global religious war
that could result in the destruction of our country (and others) and the deaths
of tens (if not hundreds) of millions of people.

You cannot GET them to understand this, because they already DO understand it.
It's part of their world view -- we are living in "the end of days," in which
all evil will finally be destroyed, as predicted in Revelations.

Evil is not a person, place, or thing. It is a belief -- and you cannot get rid
of the belief by getting rid of its believers.

Final gratuitous slap: Any President whose foreign policy is based on "We're
good -- they're bad" clearly knows nothing about the history of the world, and
is incompetent to make sensible decisions. He should be impeached for that
reason, alone.

I would spend $87B on developing a hydrogen-delivery infrastructure in the US.

$87 billion- enough to buy everyone on this board a roomful of neves.

On Sun, Sep 7, 2003 9:10 pm, Steven Sena
wrote:
Henry Ford one of the biggest cut throat capitalist pigs this country ever
produced...





Ford's 1930s book was called "The Internationsl Jew - The Foremost Problem
in the World Today" and is often quoted by anti-semites.




---------------------------------------------------------
"Our Nations Must Come Together To Unite"
- George W Bush - Tampa FL . June 4th -2001
---------------------------------------------------------

I'd invest it in r&d for alternative (rather than oil) sources of energy.

John LeBlanc wrote: ...Henry Ford... was asked by someone what
he'd do if he woke up the next morning and found all his riches
had disappeared. He said he'd have every penny of it back within
a year.


He may have *said* that; he may have even thought it; that doesn't mean it would
actually work out that way. And if it did, so what? You're surely not
subscribing to the idea that merely wanting to be well off can make one so. If
that were true, I assure you, I'd be rich beyond your wildest dreams.


Ford had extraordinary money-making ability. Most people do not; does that mean
they don't deserve fair pay for their labors?


You are right that you can't want something for someone more than they want it
for themselves, but clearly wrong about money solving nothing. It can solve an
awful lot for the country and a lot of individuals. We're the only developed
nation in the world without universal health care. (Yes, the health care in some
of those other countries isn't great; but at least they've got it. They've got
something to work on. We have 42,000,000 citizens with None, including 9,000,000
children.) Our infrastructure of roads, bridges, etc., is falling apart; and we
recently saw the condition of our electricity-distributing system.


We have lots of homeless, 1/3 of whom have *full-time* jobs and still can't
afford housing.


We have huge unemployment. In a previous era, the combination of large-scale
unemployment and a need for infrastructure repair led a creative president to
start a massive program including the CCC, WPA, etc. The program included
artists and writers, too; and we've been using the products of those programs
for two generations. (My son's high school in Santa Monica just spent $7 million
to renovate its auditorium, a WPA structure.) But instead of imitating that
famously successful Depression-era response, the current administration seems
interested in implementing only the Biblical injunction that "to those that have
shall be given; from those that have not, shall be taken away even that which
they have."


Result: Greater spread of wealth between rich and poor than ever in our history.
*Far* greater spread between those at top of corporations and ordinary employees
than ever before. Public health at risk from recurrence of TB (highly
contagious) in a population in which 1 of 8 people lacks health care. Schools a
disaster as too many teachers know nothing, yet there's no public will to
improve education. The education disaster is self-perpetuating; once 1/3 of
adults are functionally illiterate---the figure that's cited now---it becomes
much more difficult to have a politically responsive and responsible populace.
Whatever is responsible, we are certainly allowing unheard-of illegalities and
misbehavior on the highest levels of government.



James Boyk

Just for reference on the "failure" of the War on Poverty: If you look at the
stats for the percentage (and absolute number) of poor people in America, it
starts out the 1960s at a surprisingly high level. Beginning in 1965, when the
War on Poverty began, the numbers and percentage go way down, to less than half
what they were beforehand -- and this in a time when "poverty" was being more
generously defined in order to include as many people as possible in the
program. And the numbers *stay* down through the Johnson, Nixon, Ford and
Carter administrations, with a few wiggles such as the 1973 oil crisis; they
don't begin going up again until the first Reagan administration recession in
1981.

Just thought those data might be useful.

Peace,
Paul

For $87 billion, you could get Windows to work. Maybe.

Peace,
Paul

In article ,
(ThePaulThomas) wrote:

And I for one will be forever grateful that he was a capitalsit. It's
the reason that we can afford luxuries like automobiles and the
freedom that they bring. Henry Ford's real problem is that he was an
anti-semite, which I despise in anyone...

The fact that he exploited and tossed aside his workers like fodder, and
fathered an archetype for a system that encourages no skills training
and sees workers as expendable cogs in a blind and dumb machine... that
doesn't bother you?

How about all those American jobs moving to other countries? You can
thank Henry Ford for the paradigm that's resulted in that.

Henry Ford's mentality is the same one that results in sweat shops where
kids are working 80 hours a week for pennies a day.

If making a ****-load of money off the blood of workers doesn't bother
you a bit, I'm sure Henry Ford's your man.

I am amazed at the number of people who think a pocket full of cash would
solve
every problem they have. It never occurs to most of these people that the
lack
of money in their pocket is not the problem, but just a symptom of a
bigger
problem found in the grey matter between their ears.

This could only come from the mouth of someone withoout money problems.


blahblah

William Sommerwerck wrote:

if you believe that America is the New Jerusalem, that we are
specially blessed by God and have a divine mission to defeat evil (ie, anything
not consistent with Protestant-American values).

Dubbya and the fundamentalists are leading the US towards a global religious war
that could result in the destruction of our country (and others) and the deaths
of tens (if not hundreds) of millions of people.

You cannot GET them to understand this, because they already DO understand it.
It's part of their world view -- we are living in "the end of days," in which
all evil will finally be destroyed, as predicted in Revelations.


See http://www.newamericancentury.org/ for the details (in their own
words) and http://www.pnac.info/ for the counterinfo.

curtis mathewson wrote:

I believe you can find many of the answers to most if not all of the
answers regarding the who,what, and why is really behind the so
called" war on terror" at http://seattle.indymedia.org

Click on the audio clips section and download(MP3) the lecture by
William Rivers.Hope this helps.-curtis


http://seattle.indymedia.org/front.p...&group=webcast

Steve wrote:

We will be dead from old age before a hydrogen-delivery infrastructure
exists.

Speak for yourself, pal. I plan on being around for awhile and I think
the profit opportunity is big enough that someone will find a way.

http://www.milleniumcell.com/ is close already.

William Sommerwerck wrote:
I would spend $87B on developing a hydrogen-delivery infrastructure in the US.


Hydrogen??? But it's not a fuel; not available naturally; it's just an
energy-transfer medium, like batteries; and my understanding is that it requires
more energy to make the hydrogen available than the hydrogen carries. Therefore
it's a net loser for society.


Always happy to learn better, but I think this is pretty well established.


James Boyk

R Krizman wrote:



Money certainly won't solve everything, but it is by definition pretty much the
solution to poverty.

Take the 87 billion and divey it up for the 250 million people in the
US. That will give us a whopping $348 each. I guess the solution
requires a lot more than 87 billion.

James Boyk wrote:


Hydrogen??? But it's not a fuel; not available naturally; it's just an
energy-transfer medium, like batteries; and my understanding is that it
requires more energy to make the hydrogen available than the hydrogen
carries. Therefore it's a net loser for society.

The money would be better spent on solar panels and wind generators.
Current technologies that could be expanded immediately and make a dent
in our fuel requirements and emissions reduction.

-Rob

Bill Thompson wrote:
But it seems like they didn't think about what to do afterwards, and
that really worries me.


This is *news* to you about the current administration? In what area *have* they
shown foresight?


James Boyk

In article , "nmm"
wrote:

How does that quote go; "Give a Man a Fish, and Feed him for a Day, Teach
him to Fish and feed him for a Lifetime"

"Teach a man to create an artificial shortage of fish, and he'll eat
steak."

CT

Artie Turner wrote:

Are you kidding? Don't you read the papers or watch TV?

Well, okay, good point. None of the Reagan-era bulldogs with their
hands up his ass had much to say on the subject, anyway. If only
Dubbya followed rec.audio.pro, we could have straightened this whole
thing out from the beginning.

ulysses

William Sommerwerck wrote:

It's NOT idiotic, if you believe that America is the New Jerusalem,
that we are specially blessed by God and have a divine mission to
defeat evil (ie, anything not consistent with Protestant-American
values).

Great, so we have s lunstic running the country instead of an imbicile.
How comforting!

ulysses

William Sommerwerck wrote:

I would spend $87B on developing a hydrogen-delivery infrastructure in the US.


I think Iran and North Korea are working on that right now.

ulysses

"nmm" wrote in message
...

How does that quote go; "Give a Man a Fish, and Feed him for a Day, Teach
him to Fish and feed him for a Lifetime"

Teach a man to fish and he'll always be taking off work when they're biting.

In article ,
James Boyk wrote:



Hydrogen??? But it's not a fuel; not available naturally; it's just an
energy-transfer medium, like batteries; and my understanding is that it
requires more energy to make the hydrogen available than the hydrogen carries.
Therefore it's a net loser for society.

Yes, that's all true. And it gets worse. Exergy!

http://www.tinaja.com/glib/energfun.pdf

Please don't tell me you can get H2 from splitting H20, either! Only
for subs or high-school science class.....

DC

On Mon, Sep 8, 2003 1:13 pm, R Krizman wrote:
I am amazed at the number of people who think a pocket full of cash
would
solve
every problem they have. It never occurs to most of these people that
the
lack
of money in their pocket is not the problem, but just a symptom of a
bigger
problem found in the grey matter between their ears.


Money certainly won't solve everything, but it is by definition pretty
much
the
solution to poverty.

-R

How does that quote go; "Give a Man a Fish, and Feed him for a Day, Teach
him to Fish and feed him for a Lifetime"

As far as religious war, check out
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=34469. Seems that Bin Laden
is sneaking up on being the Islamic Messiah, which certainly goes right
along with your perception.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at www.recaudiopro.net.
See how far $20 really goes.




"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message
...
Seems kind of obvious now, but nobody bothered to tell Dubbya
how foolish it is to try and bomb away all the anti-Americanism
in the world. That's downright idiotic when you think about it.

It's NOT idiotic, if you believe that America is the New Jerusalem, that
we are
specially blessed by God and have a divine mission to defeat evil (ie,
anything
not consistent with Protestant-American values).

Dubbya and the fundamentalists are leading the US towards a global
religious war
that could result in the destruction of our country (and others) and the
deaths
of tens (if not hundreds) of millions of people.

You cannot GET them to understand this, because they already DO understand
it.
It's part of their world view -- we are living in "the end of days," in
which
all evil will finally be destroyed, as predicted in Revelations.

Evil is not a person, place, or thing. It is a belief -- and you cannot
get rid
of the belief by getting rid of its believers.

Final gratuitous slap: Any President whose foreign policy is based on
"We're
good -- they're bad" clearly knows nothing about the history of the world,
and
is incompetent to make sensible decisions. He should be impeached for that
reason, alone.

Sorry, but that's incorrect. Or at least incomplete.

You can't have vehicles powered by molecular hydrogen if you don't have some way
to generate, distribute, and store that hydrogen.

Molecular hydrogen CAN be generated at relatively low cost from non-hydrocarbon
sources, thus gradually helping wean us off the teat of cheap Middle-East oil.

Solar energy would be an excellent way to do this, as it is indefinitely
self-renewing, thus (potentially) having a low amortized cost.


James Boyk wrote...

William Sommerwerck wrote...

I would spend $87B on developing a hydrogen-delivery
infrastructure in the US.

Hydrogen??? But it's not a fuel; not available naturally; it's just an
energy-transfer medium, like batteries; and my understanding is
that it requires more energy to make the hydrogen available than
the hydrogen carries. Therefore it's a net loser for society.

Always happy to learn better, but I think this is pretty well established.

nmm wrote:


I've been reading some mixed stuff about Dr Howard Dean..


I've heard him talking. I've heard his "message". I don't like him.

Gary Koliger wrote:

redirect the money now made by organised crime into the US economy

Much of it's in there already. Big laundry winds up paradeing as equity.

--
ha

"John LeBlanc" wrote in message

Just out of curiosity, how do you suppose spending 87 billion dollars here in
the USA would have kept that kid alive?

Actually it's about $150 Billion. $87 Billion that he's extorting from
us, plus the $70 Billion that he's already ****ed away..... but who's
counting huh?

Who's fault is it he's dead? The federal government? Please

Ah.... yeah? I think it's this Administration that put him in "Harm's
Way". But he joined up so it's ultimately his responsibility. BIG
mistake..... Sorry for being sentimental, but he was a good kid and
people around the neighorhood are upset.

"........you can't throw money at a problem

You're making my point for me John. This 'war' won't be won by
throwing billions of dollars at it. It's a sad missed opportunity to
spend that money here and tell Sadam to eat sand. As they say.....
"Living Well is the Best Revenge."

In the autobiography of Henry Ford, he was asked by someone what he'd do
if he woke up the next morning and found all his riches had
disappeared.
He said he'd have every penny of it back within a year.
Chew on that one a while.

Sorry John. Not impressed. Making money isn't really that special.
Just squirrels gathering more nuts..... Showing some humanity is much
more impressive. Henry Ford was an asshole, and all his money couldn't
buy him a good reputation.

Chew on that John

J_West

Kurt Albershardt wrote:

The R&D is actually going rather well already. $87B would buy enough PV
panels (even at current prices) to alleviate a nice percentage of our
current issues.

What about our voltage issues?

--
ha

LeBaron & Alrich wrote:

Kurt Albershardt wrote:

The R&D is actually going rather well already. $87B would buy enough PV
panels (even at current prices) to alleviate a nice percentage of our
current issues.

What about our voltage issues?


There's some resistance to those.

--
ha


--
Les Cargill

Les Cargill wrote...

LeBaron & Alrich wrote:

Kurt Albershardt wrote:

The R&D is actually going rather well already. $87B would buy enough
PV panels (even at current prices) to alleviate a nice percentage of our
current issues.

What about our voltage issues?

There's some resistance to those.

Not to mention a lot of reluctance from the oil and gas companies, who are
offering impedance to the development of alternative energy.

I think we've run out of terms, but anyone is welcome to try.