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muzikwench muzikwench is offline
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Default Old brass telephone patch bay: recycle or junk?

Hi,,

I've dug up an old 50 jack (25x2) normalled and balanced
rear-solderable rackmount brass telephone patch bay that's built like
a tank. I'd like to clean it up and use it. It's designed for bantam
plugs, but seems to handle 1/4" just fine. For each vertical pair, the
ground is common and the front jacks mount to a rougly L-shaped brass
plate to which the jack blades and switch blades are mounted.

Testing it with a stereo plug reveals that contacts to hot and cold as
well as the switched contacts read clean (0 ohms). But the common
brass ground isn't clean at all due to extensive oxidation of the
brass jacks which are quite dark and dirty. The brass plate is quite
clean and reads 0 ohms, but even digging into the inner part of the
front brass jacks the best I get is about 6 ohms.

Questions:

How can I clean the brass plugs easily and efficientlyl? I tried some
Cramolin I had lying around, and it really didn't do much; I imagine
it can't handle this degree of oxidation. The inner jacks are
basically dark brown.

Ideally, because I don't feel like taking the endire thing to pieces,
I'd like to take each pair apart and just dip the frount ground part
of the contacts into some corrosive cleaning solution. This front part
extends 1/2" in front of the blades, so it's possible to physically do
this. Is there a chemical that could do this?

I also have 8 1/4" bantam patch cables but these are also brass and
have the same degree of oxidation. What's the best way of cleaning
these?

Considering all of the above: am I wasting my time and should I just
chuck this thing and move on?

Thanks for any ideas.

Steve

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Mike Rivers Mike Rivers is offline
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Default Old brass telephone patch bay: recycle or junk?

On Mar 13, 12:16 am, muzikwench wrote:

I've dug up an old 50 jack (25x2) normalled and balanced
rear-solderable rackmount brass telephone patch bay that's built like
a tank. I'd like to clean it up and use it. It's designed for bantam
plugs, but seems to handle 1/4" just fine.


You have your terminology mixed up. A bantam jack is about 3/16" in
diameter and a 1/4" plug clearly won't fit. What you have are known as
"long frame" jacks.

Common audio style 1/4" plugs will fit, but people who are fussy about
their long frame patchbays don't like to use them. Because the
diameter of the tip is smaller on a long frame plug than on an audio
plug (sorry, I don't know what else to call a "common" plug), a common
plug will push the normalling contacts further apart than they were
designed to move. This will eventually cause them to no longer make
contact properly when there's no plug in the jack. I have been using
several bays of jacks like what you have for about 30 years and use an
occasional "visitor" plug but I'm careful not to leave it plugged in
any longer than it needs to be. Mine still work fine, but like
anything old, it needs a spritz of contact cleaner now and then.

For each vertical pair, the
ground is common and the front jacks mount to a rougly L-shaped brass
plate to which the jack blades and switch blades are mounted.


A common ground (sleeve) is usually not a problem but a lot of those
telephone jack pairs are full-normalled and the normalling contacts
are strapped together with pieces of metal - the parts of the two
jacks are actually one piece. Does each jack have four terminals (tip,
ring, tip switch, ring switch - not counting the common sleeve) or
just two? If it has four, you can wire them half-normalled, which is
what you usually want for a studio patchbay unless you're patching
microphones. If it doesn't have terminals for the normalling switches,
however, you'll need to determine how they're normalled (if at all)
and decide if that's what you want. Some have no normalling contacts,
so you can't normal them.

How can I clean the brass plugs easily and efficientlyl? I tried some
Cramolin I had lying around, and it really didn't do much;


The PLUGS (what goes into the JACK) can be cleaned with Brasso or some
other brass polish. They come out nice and shiny. You'll never get the
jack parts to look shiny because you can't get to them unless you
disassemble the jacks, and you DON'T want to do that - you wouldn't
believe how many loose parts you'll have just with one jack pair!! But
a shot of Cramolin, worked in with a plug, will restore electrical
contact.

This is good quality stuff. It takes a lot of time to wire a patchbay,
but assuming the jacks aren't shot, it will serve you well. But it's
really hard to tell how good the jacks are until they're in service
for a while. The tip, ring, and sleeve contacts will survive a nuclear
attack, but the switch contacts that normal a jack pair are what fail
with time and crud. So you may find yourself with some crackles in a
signal path that goes through a normalled pair of jacks. As long as
contact cleaner works to fix that, you'll be OK, but eventually you'll
have to replace the jack.


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Paul Repacholi Paul Repacholi is offline
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Default Old brass telephone patch bay: recycle or junk?

muzikwench writes:

Considering all of the above: am I wasting my time and should I just
chuck this thing and move on?


You are SO much better with a new improved cheapest chinese bidder
unit than one that is engineered to last 40-50 years with hundeds of
jacking cycles per day per jack.

600 grit GLASS paper, and a soft brass brush that is a light
fit. Don't try to get it totally clean and shinny, just bring it back
to a clean contact.
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Scott Dorsey Scott Dorsey is offline
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Default Old brass telephone patch bay: recycle or junk?

On Mar 13, 12:16 am, muzikwench wrote:

I've dug up an old 50 jack (25x2) normalled and balanced
rear-solderable rackmount brass telephone patch bay that's built like
a tank. I'd like to clean it up and use it. It's designed for bantam
plugs, but seems to handle 1/4" just fine.


This is a long frame 1/4" jack, not a bantam jack. It requires standard
1/4" long frame patch cords. If you use 1/4" short-frame "guitar amp"
or "headphone" plugs, you'll wreck the springs.

Markertek, though, has inexpensive long-frame patch cords.

How can I clean the brass plugs easily and efficientlyl? I tried some
Cramolin I had lying around, and it really didn't do much;


The plugs just get cleaned with Brasso if they aren't plated. For the
patchbay itself, the best thing to do is either to pull the whole thing
apart and Brasso it (which should be done every few years, I think), or
you should just use the cleaning plugs (available from Markertek) which
polish the contact surfaces only.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
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Ty Ford Ty Ford is offline
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Default Old brass telephone patch bay: recycle or junk?

On Tue, 13 Mar 2007 00:16:32 -0400, muzikwench wrote
(in article ):

Hi,,

I've dug up an old 50 jack (25x2) normalled and balanced
rear-solderable rackmount brass telephone patch bay that's built like
a tank. I'd like to clean it up and use it. It's designed for bantam
plugs, but seems to handle 1/4" just fine. For each vertical pair, the
ground is common and the front jacks mount to a rougly L-shaped brass
plate to which the jack blades and switch blades are mounted.

Testing it with a stereo plug reveals that contacts to hot and cold as
well as the switched contacts read clean (0 ohms). But the common
brass ground isn't clean at all due to extensive oxidation of the
brass jacks which are quite dark and dirty. The brass plate is quite
clean and reads 0 ohms, but even digging into the inner part of the
front brass jacks the best I get is about 6 ohms.

Questions:

How can I clean the brass plugs easily and efficientlyl? I tried some
Cramolin I had lying around, and it really didn't do much; I imagine
it can't handle this degree of oxidation. The inner jacks are
basically dark brown.


I sent mine for an ultrasonic bath. That worked really nicely. RCI in
Rockville MD did them for me, but you may have someone local.

Regards,

Ty Ford




--Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services
Acting and Voiceover Demos http://www.tyford.com
Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RZJ9MptZmU



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Bigguy Bigguy is offline
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Default Old brass telephone patch bay: recycle or junk?

I second that - used to send them to a pal at the BBC who put them through
an ultrasonic cleaning bath and they came lovely...
A bit of Jif on the paintwork and they look like new.

In the UK they are A guage (standard 1/4 2 jack) and B guage (GPO jack with
smaller tip).

Guy

Ty Ford wrote:
I sent mine for an ultrasonic bath. That worked really nicely. RCI in
Rockville MD did them for me, but you may have someone local.

Regards,

Ty Ford




--Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services
Acting and Voiceover Demos http://www.tyford.com
Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RZJ9MptZmU



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muzikwench muzikwench is offline
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Default Old brass telephone patch bay: recycle or junk?

On 13 Mar 2007 04:31:09 -0700, "Mike Rivers"
wrote:

Mike and Scott: yes they are long frame. Wasn't sure of the
terminology.

Mike, sound advice on the plug types. FIY on the wiring: only hot,
cold and ground terminals on each jack. The patchbay is full
normalled. Un-normalling requires removal of thin metal jumper plates.
This patchbay will be fine for my purposes.

Thanks fo all for the cleaning tips. Since I posted this I found a
discussion on the subject on Prodigy Pro:

http://www.prodigy-pro.com/forum/vie...=asc&sta rt=0

I think ultrasonics is the safest bet. I'll see what I can find around
here or order a "chepo" ultrasonic cleaner.

You are SO much better with a new improved cheapest chinese bidder
unit than one that is engineered to last 40-50 years with hundeds of
jacking cycles per day per jack.


Sarcasm aside, my feelings as well

Thanks to all for the information and suggestions!

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Roy W. Rising Roy W. Rising is offline
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Default Old brass telephone patch bay: recycle or junk?

"Mike Rivers" wrote:
On Mar 13, 12:16 am, muzikwench wrote:

I've dug up an old 50 jack (25x2) normalled and balanced
rear-solderable rackmount brass telephone patch bay that's built like
a tank. I'd like to clean it up and use it. It's designed for bantam
plugs, but seems to handle 1/4" just fine.


You have your terminology mixed up. A bantam jack is about 3/16" in
diameter and a 1/4" plug clearly won't fit. What you have are known as
"long frame" jacks.


TO ALL HERE ~ I have a *pile* of de-commissioned long frame jack rows, some
"open" from Switchcraft, some "boxed" from ADC.

If anyone here wants any, they're yours for the shipping. Email me for an
inventory and let me know what you can use.

--
~ Roy
"If you notice the sound, it's wrong!"
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muzikwench muzikwench is offline
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Default Old brass telephone patch bay: recycle or junk?

On Tue, 13 Mar 2007 15:26:59 -0000, "Bigguy"
wrote:

I second that - used to send them to a pal at the BBC who put them through
an ultrasonic cleaning bath and they came lovely...
A bit of Jif on the paintwork and they look like new.

In the UK they are A guage (standard 1/4 2 jack) and B guage (GPO jack with
smaller tip).

Guy

Ty Ford wrote:
I sent mine for an ultrasonic bath. That worked really nicely. RCI in
Rockville MD did them for me, but you may have someone local.


A question about ultrasonic cleaning:

I took apart one of the jack pairs to see how it was made and it looks
like the insulating plates as well as the thin tubes used to insulate
the ground screws (which hold the blades assembly together) are all
phenolic.

Can the phenolic survive the ultrasonic bath? Or must the assmbly be
completely taken apart and only the metal components cleaned?

TIA
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Scott Dorsey Scott Dorsey is offline
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Default Old brass telephone patch bay: recycle or junk?

muzikwench wrote:

I think ultrasonics is the safest bet. I'll see what I can find around
here or order a "chepo" ultrasonic cleaner.


A cheapo ultrasonic cleaner that can take a whole rack unit is going to be
in the $500 range.

On the OTHER hand, you can use it for record cleaning as well, and if you
deal a lot with acetates or 78s it is worth every penny.

If you are only using it occasionally it may be cheaper to find a local
machine shop that will let you use theirs for a few bucks. Ask someone
who does carb rebuilds.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."


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Scott Dorsey Scott Dorsey is offline
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Default Old brass telephone patch bay: recycle or junk?

muzikwench wrote:

A question about ultrasonic cleaning:

I took apart one of the jack pairs to see how it was made and it looks
like the insulating plates as well as the thin tubes used to insulate
the ground screws (which hold the blades assembly together) are all
phenolic.

Can the phenolic survive the ultrasonic bath? Or must the assmbly be
completely taken apart and only the metal components cleaned?


It will be fine. Most mild acids won't hurt phenolic. On the other
hand, Formula 409 will etch the hell of the surface.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
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Ty Ford Ty Ford is offline
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Default Old brass telephone patch bay: recycle or junk?

On Tue, 13 Mar 2007 13:22:30 -0400, muzikwench wrote
(in article ):

On Tue, 13 Mar 2007 15:26:59 -0000, "Bigguy"
wrote:

I second that - used to send them to a pal at the BBC who put them through
an ultrasonic cleaning bath and they came lovely...
A bit of Jif on the paintwork and they look like new.

In the UK they are A guage (standard 1/4 2 jack) and B guage (GPO jack with
smaller tip).

Guy

Ty Ford wrote:
I sent mine for an ultrasonic bath. That worked really nicely. RCI in
Rockville MD did them for me, but you may have someone local.


A question about ultrasonic cleaning:

I took apart one of the jack pairs to see how it was made and it looks
like the insulating plates as well as the thin tubes used to insulate
the ground screws (which hold the blades assembly together) are all
phenolic.

Can the phenolic survive the ultrasonic bath? Or must the assmbly be
completely taken apart and only the metal components cleaned?

TIA


Not taken apart, but with little plugs to open the contacts.

Regards,

Ty

--Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services
Acting and Voiceover Demos http://www.tyford.com
Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RZJ9MptZmU

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muzikwench muzikwench is offline
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Default Old brass telephone patch bay: recycle or junk?

Not taken apart, but with little plugs to open the contacts.

Regards,

Ty


Thanks, I was thinking of doing that. Makes sense.

One more question: is there such a thing as a conductive lacquer that
would stop or at least significantly slow down any future oxidation of
the brass?

BTW: Brasso is amazing stuff

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Roy W. Rising Roy W. Rising is offline
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Default Old brass telephone patch bay: recycle or junk?

muzikwench wrote:
Not taken apart, but with little plugs to open the contacts.

Regards,

Ty


Thanks, I was thinking of doing that. Makes sense.

One more question: is there such a thing as a conductive lacquer that
would stop or at least significantly slow down any future oxidation of
the brass?

BTW: Brasso is amazing stuff


If there were, we'd all be wealthy!

Long ago, in anticipation of a strike, Management had the Maintenance Group
check out all the audio gear and polish all the patch cord plugs. When one
manager observed how bright and shiny they were, I said "Yes! And I've
found a way to keep them that way ... Krylon Crystal Clear!" The Manager
panicked and ran to my Supervisor to have someone test to see if I'd really
done it! ;-)

--
~ Roy
"If you notice the sound, it's wrong!"
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Scott Dorsey Scott Dorsey is offline
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Default Old brass telephone patch bay: recycle or junk?

muzikwench wrote:

One more question: is there such a thing as a conductive lacquer that
would stop or at least significantly slow down any future oxidation of
the brass?


Yup, nickel plating. It helps a lot.

The oxidation isn't actually as much of a problem as it seems, because
the plugs are designed to scrape it off of the tip and ring contacts when
you plug and unplug them. They are self-cleaning. I think that the Gray
Switchboard Company actually held a patent on the long-frame design around
1900 or so.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
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