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Straw Man
 
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Default * Question about proper crediting protocol...

I have a question.

I'm my band's sole financial contributor. It's my project, my songs, and
everything is recorded in my home studio. However, in one exceptional case,
I was on a deadline and needed very specific types of back vocals, which my
guitarist volunteered to help me with.

After I explained to him exactly what I needed in detail, he went out and
found a couple of backup vocalists, taught them the 4 lines they needed to
sing, and recorded them. He then emailed me all those raw takes for me to
mix, and we're going ahead with them.

I'd like to know what proper crediting protocol for this sort of thing is,
and I'll endeavor to follow convention.

Thanks.


  #2   Report Post  
EricK
 
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Straw Man wrote:

I have a question.

I'm my band's sole financial contributor. It's my project, my songs, and
everything is recorded in my home studio. However, in one exceptional case,
I was on a deadline and needed very specific types of back vocals, which my
guitarist volunteered to help me with.

After I explained to him exactly what I needed in detail, he went out and
found a couple of backup vocalists, taught them the 4 lines they needed to
sing, and recorded them. He then emailed me all those raw takes for me to
mix, and we're going ahead with them.

I'd like to know what proper crediting protocol for this sort of thing is,
and I'll endeavor to follow convention.


You give the background vocalist credit on each song they sang on. You
give your guitarist credit for recording the BGV's. You also give him
credit for playing guitar.

Basically, you give credit to everyone who contributed to this work.

--
Eric

Practice Your Mixing Skills
www.Raw-Tracks.com
www.Mad-Host.com
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Straw Man
 
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"EricK" wrote in message
...
Straw Man wrote:

I have a question.

I'm my band's sole financial contributor. It's my project, my songs, and
everything is recorded in my home studio. However, in one exceptional
case, I was on a deadline and needed very specific types of back vocals,
which my guitarist volunteered to help me with.

After I explained to him exactly what I needed in detail, he went out and
found a couple of backup vocalists, taught them the 4 lines they needed
to sing, and recorded them. He then emailed me all those raw takes for me
to mix, and we're going ahead with them.

I'd like to know what proper crediting protocol for this sort of thing
is, and I'll endeavor to follow convention.


You give the background vocalist credit on each song they sang on. You
give your guitarist credit for recording the BGV's. You also give him
credit for playing guitar.

Basically, you give credit to everyone who contributed to this work.


There was never any question that the backup vocalists would get credited,
just as there was never any question that the guitarist gets credit for all
the guitars. But how do you credit when someone has simply "recorded" a few
of someone else's takes? What's the proper syntax for this? Isn't the sound
engineer the person who usually handles this? So would this count as sound
engineering?

I also want it to be clear in the crediting that the guitarist only recorded
the tracks, and wasn't a maestro of some sort. The tracks were assembled and
arranged by someone else who told the guitarist exactly what he needed to
work with.


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Richard Crowley
 
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"Gary Guitar: rhythm guitar and backup vocal production"

He was not only the recording engineer for the backup
tracks (even if only under close supervision), but also the
"producer" or at least "coordinator" to recruit, rehearse,
and "direct" the backup vocalists.
  #5   Report Post  
Jay Kadis
 
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Default

In article , "Straw Man" wrote:

"EricK" wrote in message
...
Straw Man wrote:

I have a question.

I'm my band's sole financial contributor. It's my project, my songs, and
everything is recorded in my home studio. However, in one exceptional
case, I was on a deadline and needed very specific types of back vocals,
which my guitarist volunteered to help me with.

After I explained to him exactly what I needed in detail, he went out and
found a couple of backup vocalists, taught them the 4 lines they needed
to sing, and recorded them. He then emailed me all those raw takes for me
to mix, and we're going ahead with them.

I'd like to know what proper crediting protocol for this sort of thing
is, and I'll endeavor to follow convention.


You give the background vocalist credit on each song they sang on. You
give your guitarist credit for recording the BGV's. You also give him
credit for playing guitar.

Basically, you give credit to everyone who contributed to this work.


There was never any question that the backup vocalists would get credited,
just as there was never any question that the guitarist gets credit for all
the guitars. But how do you credit when someone has simply "recorded" a few
of someone else's takes? What's the proper syntax for this? Isn't the sound
engineer the person who usually handles this? So would this count as sound
engineering?

I also want it to be clear in the crediting that the guitarist only recorded
the tracks, and wasn't a maestro of some sort. The tracks were assembled and
arranged by someone else who told the guitarist exactly what he needed to
work with.



You often see "additional recording by..." or the like in credits.

-Jay

--
x------- Jay Kadis ------- x---- Jay's Attic Studio ------x
x Lecturer, Audio Engineer x Dexter Records x
x CCRMA, Stanford University x http://www.offbeats.com/ x
x---------- http://ccrma.stanford.edu/~jay/ ------------x


  #6   Report Post  
Jon J. Yeager
 
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"Richard Crowley" wrote in message
...

"Gary Guitar: rhythm guitar and backup vocal production"


I know you didn't intend it as such, but that is a freakishly cool stage
name.

;-)


  #7   Report Post  
EricK
 
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Straw Man wrote:
There was never any question that the backup vocalists would get credited,
just as there was never any question that the guitarist gets credit for all
the guitars.


Hmmm, wasn't clear from your original post, but ok.

But how do you credit when someone has simply "recorded" a few
of someone else's takes? What's the proper syntax for this? Isn't the sound
engineer the person who usually handles this? So would this count as sound
engineering?


As someone else mention, "additional recording by..."

I also want it to be clear in the crediting that the guitarist only recorded
the tracks, and wasn't a maestro of some sort.


Well then you better spell it out, just as you have here. Wouldn't want
someone who purchases your disc to get confused about what the guitarist
didn't do.

The tracks were assembled and
arranged by someone else who told the guitarist exactly what he needed to
work with.


I bet that person is you, right?

Sorry to be patronizing, but you're coming off as some sort of ego freak
here. I'm not saying you are, necessarily, it's just sounding that way.
Sorry.

--
Eric

Practice Your Mixing Skills
www.Raw-Tracks.com
www.Mad-Host.com
  #8   Report Post  
Straw Man
 
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"EricK" wrote in message
...

Sorry to be patronizing, but you're coming off as some sort of ego freak
here. I'm not saying you are, necessarily, it's just sounding that way.
Sorry.


Instead of apologizing repeatedly for being an ass, why not simply try to
avoid being an ass?

"No offense", of course, but if I'm coming across as an ego freak to you,
then you're certainly coming off as someone with obvious issues on the
subject of proper crediting, possibly due to somekind of bad experience you
haven't yet let go of. I'm not usually one to judge a person based on a
usenet post or two, but in the case of someone like you who has no such
restraints, I'll make an exception.

If you must know, that I am here inquiring about proper protocol at all is
supposed to be a good and commendable thing. How many people out there in
the position of not *having* to do so have cared to go out of their way to
do it right? My desire to do things by the book and to be fair to everyone
involved is the only reason I asked the freaking question in the first
place.

That there are people like you out there who somehow find a way to see
something negative in that is quite unfortunate, Eric.


  #9   Report Post  
EricK
 
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Default

Straw Man wrote:

Instead of apologizing repeatedly for being an ass, why not simply try to
avoid being an ass?

"No offense", of course, but if I'm coming across as an ego freak to you,
then you're certainly coming off as someone with obvious issues on the
subject of proper crediting, possibly due to somekind of bad experience you
haven't yet let go of. I'm not usually one to judge a person based on a
usenet post or two, but in the case of someone like you who has no such
restraints, I'll make an exception.


Issues, hardly. I have been left out of credits on major projects where
I worked my ass off. I have also been given credit on major projects
where I hardly did a thing. It all comes out in the wash.

What caused me to use the term ego freak was your opening line:

"I'm my band's sole financial contributor. It's my project, my songs,
and everything is recorded in my home studio. However, in one
exceptional case....."

I, ME, MINE.

If you look back, I replied to your original inquiry with helpful
information regarding proper crediting protocol. You then replied to
that post, as I didn't specifically address the "additional engineering"
credit that you were looking for. I guess I thought that was implied, sorry.

You then replied back and described, in a somewhat derogatory manner
towards your guitar player, how he "has simply "recorded" a few
of someone else's takes?" and the he "wasn't a maestro of some sort".
That, to me, is downplaying his contribution and his helping you in a pinch.

That whole "I, Me, Mine" routine left a bad taste in my mouth. If I
misinterpreted your tone, I am sorry.

I hope you have the information you need now. If not, please feel free
to let me know. I will be more than happy to help you.

--
Eric

Practice Your Mixing Skills
www.Raw-Tracks.com
www.Mad-Host.com
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hank alrich
 
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Default

EricK wrote:

Straw Man wrote:


Instead of apologizing repeatedly for being an ass, why not simply try to
avoid being an ass?


"No offense", of course, but if I'm coming across as an ego freak to you,
then you're certainly coming off as someone with obvious issues on the
subject of proper crediting, possibly due to somekind of bad experience you
haven't yet let go of. I'm not usually one to judge a person based on a
usenet post or two, but in the case of someone like you who has no such
restraints, I'll make an exception.


Issues, hardly. I have been left out of credits on major projects where
I worked my ass off. I have also been given credit on major projects
where I hardly did a thing. It all comes out in the wash.


What caused me to use the term ego freak was your opening line:


"I'm my band's sole financial contributor. It's my project, my songs,
and everything is recorded in my home studio. However, in one
exceptional case....."


I, ME, MINE.


I wonder how much he's paying the other band members? I wonder how much
he paid for the guitarist's recording work, the rounding up of the
background vocalists, etc.? I wonder how much he paid the backup
singers?

--
ha


  #11   Report Post  
Laurence Payne
 
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Default

On Thu, 6 Oct 2005 14:57:30 -0400, "Straw Man" wrote:

My desire to do things by the book and to be fair to everyone
involved is the only reason I asked the freaking question in the first
place.


You WERE rather giving the impression that your main preoccupation was
not being fair to the guitarist, but not being TOO fair :-)
  #12   Report Post  
Kurt Riemann
 
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On Thu, 6 Oct 2005 14:57:30 -0400, "Straw Man" wrote:

"EricK" wrote in message
...

Sorry to be patronizing, but you're coming off as some sort of ego freak
here. I'm not saying you are, necessarily, it's just sounding that way.
Sorry.


Instead of apologizing repeatedly for being an ass, why not simply try to
avoid being an ass?


Because you deserved it?

If you must know, that I am here inquiring about proper protocol at all is
supposed to be a good and commendable thing.


You're a saint.

Well, if it matters, I also think you've been a dick in two of your
posts. Maybe you shouldn't post in the Big Boys group if you can't
take a Big Boy's opinion.

Credit the guitarist with his "additional recording on . . . " and the
background singers as "background vocal by . . . ". Say that the
guitarist's bit is "Tom Jones - guitar" Or you could also say "Every
note written by . . .Strawman" or whatever your real name is.

And then as you give away your CD you can tell people in person that
you did EVERYTHING else all by yourself and that the guitarist and
vocalists were just aping what you could have done yourself. It really
impresses people, trust me - you've already seen evidence of that
here.

But they may already know you did it all yourself because something
tells me that your hearty collaborative spirit that is exemplified in
your posts is evident on the tracks.

Remember - it's not what you say, it's what you mean.


Kurt Riemann
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EricK
 
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Just curious as to why you cross posted your reply into cakewalk.general
when you didn't originally post the question there?


--
Eric

Practice Your Mixing Skills
www.Raw-Tracks.com
www.Mad-Host.com
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