Home |
Search |
Today's Posts |
#121
Posted to rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar.acoustic
|
|||
|
|||
Reality and Prerecorded Music Sales
"Mike Brown" wrote in message ... If none of your family or close friends are musicians, and you have never been to a concert at an intimate venue, it is quite possible that the only acoustic music (unamplified) you've heard is either a brass band or bagpipes. I'd put my money on more people having heard an acoustic guitar or real piano than bagpipes, and possibly a brass band as well. (although brass bands are far more common in the USA than Australia I believe, I somehow doubt bagpipes are though) Whether they've actually listened with any intent to any of them is another matter. Trevor. |
#122
Posted to rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar.acoustic
|
|||
|
|||
Reality and Prerecorded Music Sales
Ron Capik wrote:
On 1/8/2012 11:13 AM, hank alrich wrote: wrote: "hank wrote in message ... You are right on it, Sean. Bango! For example, many folks have never heard an "acoustic" guitar except through amplification. And the folks who say that have no idea what the actual figures are of course. I for one don't know *anybody* who has never heard an unamplified acoustic guitar or piano at least once in their life! I'm willing to bet you can't actually find anyone either. It *is* true IME that many don't CARE about music quality, but that's another statement entirely. Trevor. Sorry Trevor, I am speaking from firsthand experience, based of direct communication from people who are not youngsters at all, and who have told me personally that only recently have they heard non-classical acoustic string music sans amplification. Those of us who came up around musicians have a different experience. Turns out that many folks have not had that experiecne. Strokes, folks, etc. May I point out that to hear something is quite passive and thus Trevor may have a point. Now if you were to say many folks have never listened to an acoustic (whatever) then I believe Hank is probably on good, solid ground. Now you may go off and quibble about the meaning of "listen" but that's not really the point of the discussion. I should clarify that I meant that many people have never heard an acoustic guitar _acoustically_, with only air for a transducer, versus with pickup, or via a mic, or from a music playback system, car radio, etc. This actually never occurred to me until recently when I began to meet such folks, through friends, and then other friends of those folks, all of whom are great fans of music, but who only recently made friends with musicians, and now have had the experience of hearing the music played casually, socially, in living rooms, for fun. Previously I took for granted that everyone had heard plenty of real, live acoustic music, because I've lived it among friends and associates who also live it. I remember crawling around the floor, too young to walk, hearing my dad play piano. -- shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/ http://www.youtube.com/walkinaymusic http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShaidri |
#123
Posted to rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar.acoustic
|
|||
|
|||
Reality and Prerecorded Music Sales
"hank alrich" wrote in message ... Previously I took for granted that everyone had heard plenty of real, live acoustic music, because I've lived it among friends and associates who also live it. I remember crawling around the floor, too young to walk, hearing my dad play piano. Right you remember it, those with no interest in music don't. Of course in their case it wouldn't be "plenty" since they never actually seek it out. But since *they* don't care, why do you care what they may or may not have heard, or what they do or don't percieve as "good music sound quality" (if they ever give it a thought) Fortunately that's NOT something I have to worry about. Trevor. |
#124
Posted to rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar.acoustic
|
|||
|
|||
Reality and Prerecorded Music Sales
Trevor wrote:
"hank alrich" wrote in message ... Previously I took for granted that everyone had heard plenty of real, live acoustic music, because I've lived it among friends and associates who also live it. I remember crawling around the floor, too young to walk, hearing my dad play piano. Right you remember it, those with no interest in music don't. Of course in their case it wouldn't be "plenty" since they never actually seek it out. But since *they* don't care, why do you care what they may or may not have heard, or what they do or don't percieve as "good music sound quality" (if they ever give it a thought) Fortunately that's NOT something I have to worry about. I find that peopole are attracted to good sound when they get a chance to hear it, so I care about trying to deliver good sound. I don't worry about it. g 2011 was a fun year for hearing from sound operators about how easy it was to mix us, how little they had to do to allow it to sound good. For eighteen years I played string bass with an acoustic swing quintet. I mixed us from the stage, over a pair of Meyer UPA's, with Crest amps, a Soundcraft 200B, Bag End floor cabs, good mics. People routinely came up after the shows to tell us how great we sounded. Musically I was the weak link, but I did okay. The others were heavy duty in their roles. We just said, "Thank you; glad you enjoyed it". Do you have arguments with youself when you wake up in the morning? -- shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/ http://www.youtube.com/walkinaymusic http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShaidri |
#125
Posted to rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar.acoustic
|
|||
|
|||
Reality and Prerecorded Music Sales
|
#126
Posted to rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar.acoustic
|
|||
|
|||
Reality and Prerecorded Music Sales
"hank alrich" wrote in message ... I find that peopole are attracted to good sound when they get a chance to hear it, so I care about trying to deliver good sound. I find that when I deliver good sound to those who actually care about it, those that don't are happy. But as we have said all along, those who are not interested in music are not at concerts anyway, so obviously I do not need to care about them. Do you have arguments with youself when you wake up in the morning? Nope, I guess you do or you wouldn't feel the need to ask others. Trevor. |
#127
Posted to rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar.acoustic
|
|||
|
|||
Reality and Prerecorded Music Sales
"Trevor" wrote in :
"hank alrich" wrote in message ... Previously I took for granted that everyone had heard plenty of real, live acoustic music, because I've lived it among friends and associates who also live it. I remember crawling around the floor, too young to walk, hearing my dad play piano. Right you remember it, those with no interest in music don't. Of course in their case it wouldn't be "plenty" since they never actually seek it out. But since *they* don't care, why do you care what they may or may not have heard, or what they do or don't percieve as "good music sound quality" (if they ever give it a thought) Fortunately that's NOT something I have to worry about. Trevor. sheesh, you seem to be worrying about it quite a bit in this thread. Why do you care that others care? I work both sides of the Mic. People do care about the quality of the sound and comment on it, doesn't matter if they're players or not. People who haven't experienced quality sound recognize the difference when they hear it and will contiue to seek it out. Steve Hawkins |
#128
Posted to rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar.acoustic
|
|||
|
|||
Reality and Prerecorded Music Sales
"Don Pearce" wrote in message ... On Sun, 8 Jan 2012 11:25:25 -0500, "polymod" wrote: "Arkansan Raider" wrote in message ... Don Pearce wrote: Get hold of Jeff Beck's Live at Ronnie Scott's DVD. The sound is quite incredible. Apparently he and the band worked on it for weeks before they would play the venue. d Seconded. Friggin' unreal. Or should I say, exceptionally real. Thirded. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drAv2FoYji8 Poly And for those who think they are pretty good at slide guitar http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdCGd...eature=related A touch humbling. Hmmm...that's the same slide I use. Mine must be broke Poly |
#129
Posted to rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar.acoustic
|
|||
|
|||
Reality and Prerecorded Music Sales
Steve Hawkins wrote:
"Trevor" wrote in : "hank alrich" wrote in message ... Previously I took for granted that everyone had heard plenty of real, live acoustic music, because I've lived it among friends and associates who also live it. I remember crawling around the floor, too young to walk, hearing my dad play piano. Right you remember it, those with no interest in music don't. Of course in their case it wouldn't be "plenty" since they never actually seek it out. But since *they* don't care, why do you care what they may or may not have heard, or what they do or don't percieve as "good music sound quality" (if they ever give it a thought) Fortunately that's NOT something I have to worry about. Trevor. sheesh, you seem to be worrying about it quite a bit in this thread. Why do you care that others care? I work both sides of the Mic. People do care about the quality of the sound and comment on it, doesn't matter if they're players or not. People who haven't experienced quality sound recognize the difference when they hear it and will contiue to seek it out. Sound, of any kind, comes to the attention of our conscious mind to a certain extent, among some folks more than others, but impacts the subconscious all thet time for everyone, and the subconscious is vastly larger and more powerful than the conscious. -- shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/ http://www.youtube.com/walkinaymusic http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShaidri |
#130
Posted to rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar.acoustic
|
|||
|
|||
Reality and Prerecorded Music Sales
On Mon, 9 Jan 2012 11:22:53 -0500, "polymod"
wrote: "Don Pearce" wrote in message ... On Sun, 8 Jan 2012 11:25:25 -0500, "polymod" wrote: "Arkansan Raider" wrote in message ... Don Pearce wrote: Get hold of Jeff Beck's Live at Ronnie Scott's DVD. The sound is quite incredible. Apparently he and the band worked on it for weeks before they would play the venue. d Seconded. Friggin' unreal. Or should I say, exceptionally real. Thirded. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drAv2FoYji8 Poly And for those who think they are pretty good at slide guitar http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdCGd...eature=related A touch humbling. Hmmm...that's the same slide I use. Mine must be broke Can you make it vanish and reappear by magic? I've practiced, but it won't happen for me. d |
#131
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
Reality and Prerecorded Music Sales
On 1/8/2012 11:13 AM, hank alrich wrote:
Some of those are pretty amazing. I've attended a "house concert" in what is a 150-seat backyard amphitheater chopped out of limestone. Friends of mine have played a "house concert" where the band made $3500. Talk about work the host has to do to set up a concert like that! Even if you have a big yard and rent 150 chairs, that's a major effort. I assume that for deals like that, either the host is very well off and generous or "costs" get deducted from the artist's take. They can help raise awareness of one's offering, and the neat thing about them is that it only takes one person with a solid following of folks who have learned that said person finds good music. When the call goes out it often doesn't matter that the folks getting the message may not have heard of you before. Around here, most of the people coming to do house concerts have either been around quite a bit (I'll miss Norman Kennedy's upcoming house concert because of my trip to NAMM, and he's been coming to sing around here for more than 30 years) or they do their homework and get interviewed or at least played on local radio. Also, going along with what you said about the host knowing good music, around here there's one regular host for old time string band music, one for the Brit/Celt singers, one for old folkies like us. I'm sure there are other house concert hosts around here that I know nothing about, probably because I don't care about the music they tend to host and wouldn't attend a concert there anyway. A few very well established and highly regarded house concert presenters have booked us and that has helped our credibility considerably. AFAICT we have been the least well-known act ever to play for them, and we did well enough that they'll have us back, and we'll play to a larger house, 'cause we done good. Around here, you'd probably do OK with one of the old time or old folkies hosts, but you'd need some air play to draw more than a few flies. -- "Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge of audio." - John Watkinson http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and interesting audio stuff |
#132
Posted to rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar.acoustic
|
|||
|
|||
Reality and Prerecorded Music Sales
"Don Pearce" wrote in message ... On Mon, 9 Jan 2012 11:22:53 -0500, "polymod" wrote: "Don Pearce" wrote in message ... On Sun, 8 Jan 2012 11:25:25 -0500, "polymod" wrote: "Arkansan Raider" wrote in message ... Don Pearce wrote: Get hold of Jeff Beck's Live at Ronnie Scott's DVD. The sound is quite incredible. Apparently he and the band worked on it for weeks before they would play the venue. d Seconded. Friggin' unreal. Or should I say, exceptionally real. Thirded. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drAv2FoYji8 Poly And for those who think they are pretty good at slide guitar http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdCGd...eature=related A touch humbling. Hmmm...that's the same slide I use. Mine must be broke Can you make it vanish and reappear by magic? I've practiced, but it won't happen for me. Ditto here Poly |
#133
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
Reality and Prerecorded Music Sales
Mike Rivers wrote:
On 1/8/2012 11:13 AM, hank alrich wrote: Some of those are pretty amazing. I've attended a "house concert" in what is a 150-seat backyard amphitheater chopped out of limestone. Friends of mine have played a "house concert" where the band made $3500. Talk about work the host has to do to set up a concert like that! Even if you have a big yard and rent 150 chairs, that's a major effort. I assume that for deals like that, either the host is very well off and generous or "costs" get deducted from the artist's take. The host in that case is decently well-off, but you'd never know it hanging with him and his wife. They built that damned amphitheater themselves, just the two of them, including building the stage. The only thing they farmed-out was the electrical service. The natrual terracing of limestone, revealed by chopping away, layer by layer. Hell of a setting. First time there I looked at the sound system I thought, man, that's not what I'd have spec'd here. Then the guy operates it so intelligently that it works perfectly. You never hear the system. "The Rock Garden", downpage: http://barbedwire-music.com/ You can tell they're a little ways into it. g Wonderful people who love music, are generous, and who work their butts off to present it. They can help raise awareness of one's offering, and the neat thing about them is that it only takes one person with a solid following of folks who have learned that said person finds good music. When the call goes out it often doesn't matter that the folks getting the message may not have heard of you before. Around here, most of the people coming to do house concerts have either been around quite a bit (I'll miss Norman Kennedy's upcoming house concert because of my trip to NAMM, and he's been coming to sing around here for more than 30 years) or they do their homework and get interviewed or at least played on local radio. Right. Most of the folks who've presented us have been bringing acts to their setting for a long time, and as I said, all those other acts have much longer tenure than we do. Honestly, we felt honored that they'd even consider us in the first place. One of them has had a Saturday morning folk music show for twenty years, and has been presenting concerts at his house for sixteen years. He was the first to book us for one of those. Several of the DJ's who've given us airplay have offered us on-air exposure, either an interview or that plus the chance to play a few tunes live at the station, if we get into the area covered by the station. Obviously, we aim to accept those offers. Also, going along with what you said about the host knowing good music, around here there's one regular host for old time string band music, one for the Brit/Celt singers, one for old folkies like us. Yep, we're seeing that, and though we bridge some of those genres, some of the scenes are tight enough that we wouldn't fit. Around here, you'd probably do OK with one of the old time or old folkies hosts, but you'd need some air play to draw more than a few flies. Indeed. Right now we're trying to see if we can afford some publicity assistance, targeted at getting airplay that would fill in the obvious gaps in my Google map of our radio action. I can't believe I'm having this much fun at my age. g Some of my retired friends can't believe I'm itching to hit the road again, but I am. We got enough of it last year to inspire us to chase more of it. -- shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/ http://www.youtube.com/walkinaymusic http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShaidri |
#134
Posted to rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar.acoustic
|
|||
|
|||
Reality and Prerecorded Music Sales
On 8 tammi, 00:21, (hank alrich) wrote:
And if they do keep listening, for the most part it'll be for a spin or two, stolen instead of purchased. One thing that people don't often mention is that the market is really saturated by now, and everybody is a musician, not just one in thousand. When I was a teen, there were very few bands in the genre I liked around. Basically one good such band in the whole town. One music store with like 4 guitars there ever. There were a handful international bands, and you had to look for and/ or order their albums. Of course we also had little money as teens, so we were hungry for more; we wore out the tapes and LPs of our favorite bands and listened to them over and over again, because there was no competition. There wasn't music available in huge quantities. Today the ballpark is entirely different. In that same genre there are literally thousands of bands. I bet in my town alone there is well over a hundred bands just in that genre. I myself have been or am in half a dozen such bands. The Internet is filled with similar style bands, each better than the next, and most of it better recorded and played than the stuff we grew up on. In my town there are four music stores which have hundreds of guitars and instruments on sale, nevertheless the fact most people order a lot of stuff online too. The library is filled with music as well. If I fire up Spotify or any such service, or any Indie web music service like Hitlantis, I don't even have to make choices myself. I could probably just sit on a computer and start looking for music I like, and there would be no end to songs in that genre, there would be much more songs out there than I could listen to in a lifetime. Way more. And it keeps recommending me 'similar' stuff endlessly, never needing to go back to where I started. So no wonder people do not listen to just one album, one song over and over again. There is simply so much offering out there. There are musicians and great players every which way. I only need to go to a local bar and chances are there is some cover band playing some hit songs and actually doing a better job of them sometimes the original artists ever did. Recording is super easy - I myself have made covers of my teenage favorite songs that do not shame or even are better in audio quality at least than the originals - and I only needed a few hundred dollars worth of equipment to kick the butt of million-dollar studios of yesteryear. So for a large part I believe it is NOT so much of an issue of the media strategies and even free distribution/piracy, or that there would be something we could do about it...it is simply that when there used to be one good player among thousands of people, now it's more like there's a songwriter/musician for every dozen people there are out there, and they are also producing and releasing music more than you can start to imagine even. I bet there is a new song uploaded to the Internet every second, and I also bet at least one percent of those are easily good enough to be worth a listen. There is simply no time to listen to something twice these days, or you're missing out on new, better stuff. I always thought I was a bit of a 'musician' despite by no means a pro. We just had some half a dozen friends over at our house and all of a sudden one of them starts playing the piano - I never even knew she could even do that - and sang absolutely brilliantly over it. And pretty soon a few others joined singing - and I hadn't even known any of them play or hobby with music. The lady who sang was better than 99% of female artists out there, but later when I asked, she said she hadn't sang in years, and only ever did it for personal fun now and then, never gigged, recorded or anything even remotely like that. Yes, nobody bothers to listen to just one song or album, but I don't blame the 'right-now-and-then-onto-something-new-right-away' society style, it's more to do with the market just being insanely saturated. Cheers, Dee |
#135
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
Reality and Prerecorded Music Sales
On 1/9/2012 9:12 PM, hank alrich wrote:
Indeed. Right now we're trying to see if we can afford some publicity assistance, targeted at getting airplay that would fill in the obvious gaps in my Google map of our radio action. Once you get beyond being "local" it's a chicken/egg thing. My friend the local folk music DJ plays who's coming to town. -- "Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge of audio." - John Watkinson http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and interesting audio stuff |
#136
Posted to rec.audio.pro
|
|||
|
|||
Reality and Prerecorded Music Sales
Mike Rivers wrote:
On 1/9/2012 9:12 PM, hank alrich wrote: Indeed. Right now we're trying to see if we can afford some publicity assistance, targeted at getting airplay that would fill in the obvious gaps in my Google map of our radio action. Once you get beyond being "local" it's a chicken/egg thing. My friend the local folk music DJ plays who's coming to town. Yep. That said, some publicity help aimed at raising awareness in specific markets could help both the chicken and the egg, and might cost less than hitting the road for gigs that yet draw flies. -- shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/ http://www.youtube.com/walkinaymusic http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShaidri |
#137
Posted to rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar.acoustic
|
|||
|
|||
Reality and Prerecorded Music Sales
"Steve Hawkins" wrote in message
31.10... I work both sides of the Mic. People do care about the quality of the sound and comment on it, doesn't matter if they're players or not. People who haven't experienced quality sound recognize the difference when they hear it and will contiue to seek it out. This has been my experience also. When the sound is remarkable better than what they are used to hearing, they take note of it, and frequently comment on it. That by itself isn't the point though, I want the sound to be good - to help the audience imerse themselves in the performance. Sean |
#138
Posted to rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar.acoustic
|
|||
|
|||
Reality and Prerecorded Music Sales
Les Cargill wrote in
: Sean Conolly wrote: "Steve wrote in message 31.10... I work both sides of the Mic. People do care about the quality of the sound and comment on it, doesn't matter if they're players or not. People who haven't experienced quality sound recognize the difference when they hear it and will contiue to seek it out. This has been my experience also. When the sound is remarkable better than what they are used to hearing, they take note of it, and frequently comment on it. That by itself isn't the point though, I want the sound to be good - to help the audience imerse themselves in the performance. Sean Bad sound wears on the players, too. -- Les Cargill Absolutely, a bad sounding monitor is an epic buzz-kill for me. Steve Hawkins |
#139
Posted to rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar.acoustic
|
|||
|
|||
Reality and Prerecorded Music Sales
Sean Conolly wrote:
"Steve wrote in message 31.10... I work both sides of the Mic. People do care about the quality of the sound and comment on it, doesn't matter if they're players or not. People who haven't experienced quality sound recognize the difference when they hear it and will contiue to seek it out. This has been my experience also. When the sound is remarkable better than what they are used to hearing, they take note of it, and frequently comment on it. That by itself isn't the point though, I want the sound to be good - to help the audience imerse themselves in the performance. Sean Bad sound wears on the players, too. -- Les Cargill |
#140
Posted to rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar.acoustic
|
|||
|
|||
Reality and Prerecorded Music Sales
Steve Hawkins wrote:
Les wrote in : Sean Conolly wrote: "Steve wrote in message 31.10... I work both sides of the Mic. People do care about the quality of the sound and comment on it, doesn't matter if they're players or not. People who haven't experienced quality sound recognize the difference when they hear it and will contiue to seek it out. This has been my experience also. When the sound is remarkable better than what they are used to hearing, they take note of it, and frequently comment on it. That by itself isn't the point though, I want the sound to be good - to help the audience imerse themselves in the performance. Sean Bad sound wears on the players, too. -- Les Cargill Absolutely, a bad sounding monitor is an epic buzz-kill for me. Steve Hawkins My first choice is usually *no* monitors. I prefer to work from the house return sound. Sometimes that's a problem, but usually it isn't. -- Les Cargill |
#141
Posted to rec.audio.pro,rec.music.makers.guitar.acoustic
|
|||
|
|||
Reality and Prerecorded Music Sales
In article ,
Les Cargill wrote: Sean Conolly wrote: "Steve wrote in message 31.10... I work both sides of the Mic. People do care about the quality of the sound and comment on it, doesn't matter if they're players or not. People who haven't experienced quality sound recognize the difference when they hear it and will contiue to seek it out. This has been my experience also. When the sound is remarkable better than what they are used to hearing, they take note of it, and frequently comment on it. That by itself isn't the point though, I want the sound to be good - to help the audience imerse themselves in the performance. Sean Bad sound wears on the players, too. -- Les Cargill Irritates them and interferes with their ability to perform at their best. MJRB |
Reply |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Forum | |||
Fake reality | Pro Audio | |||
Is my tape deck out of adjustment or do old prerecorded tapes just sound that bad? | Tech | |||
familiarity with reality | High End Audio | |||
What was the first Gold album where CD sales surpassed LP sales? | Audio Opinions | |||
Interesting article on the effect of PtP file sharing on music sales... | Pro Audio |