[hank alrich]

(Crossposted to RMMGA and RAP)

We been having intermittent conversations about record sales. While we
are met with an ongoing barrage of hype that the future is all about
downloads, and that people, especially kids, don't want to purchase
physical product, yearly sales stats offer a look at that reality
interface where rubber meets road.

Apparently the future is not here yet. Here are spattered quotes and a
few links to Digital Music News articles this morning.

This first bit is about 2011 vinyl sales:

http://digitalmusicnews.com/permalink/2012/120104vinyl

"this is looking pretty bullish: according to stats just released by
Nielsen Soundscan, vinyl sales in the US topped 3.9 million in 2011, a
39.3 percent gain over 2010."

It is worthwhile to note that the figure for vinyl comes from Nielson
Soundscan, so this is product sold at checkout points where industry
data is logged and forwarded to Soundscan. The growth here does not
include what is likely a significant amout of vinyl product that never
even got its barcode, let alone a good scanning.

Next a look at total sales, including physical's share of the pie:

http://digitalmusicnews.com/permalin...20104twothirds

"According to year-2011 breakdowns just shared by Nielsen Soundscan,
more than two-thirds of all albums purchased in the US were physical
CDs."

The online revolution has not yet consumed us. Given the info I posted a
while ago about kids bying physical instead of virtual, that revolution
may be a long time coming.

--
shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/
http://www.youtube.com/walkinaymusic
http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShaidri

[Steve Hawkins[_2_]]

(hank alrich) wrote in news:1kde7mq.1pyo0ig1sejgr8N%
:

(Crossposted to RMMGA and RAP)

We been having intermittent conversations about record sales. While we
are met with an ongoing barrage of hype that the future is all about
downloads, and that people, especially kids, don't want to purchase
physical product, yearly sales stats offer a look at that reality
interface where rubber meets road.

Apparently the future is not here yet. Here are spattered quotes and a
few links to Digital Music News articles this morning.

This first bit is about 2011 vinyl sales:

http://digitalmusicnews.com/permalink/2012/120104vinyl

"this is looking pretty bullish: according to stats just released by
Nielsen Soundscan, vinyl sales in the US topped 3.9 million in 2011, a
39.3 percent gain over 2010."

It is worthwhile to note that the figure for vinyl comes from Nielson
Soundscan, so this is product sold at checkout points where industry
data is logged and forwarded to Soundscan. The growth here does not
include what is likely a significant amout of vinyl product that never
even got its barcode, let alone a good scanning.

Next a look at total sales, including physical's share of the pie:

http://digitalmusicnews.com/permalin...20104twothirds

"According to year-2011 breakdowns just shared by Nielsen Soundscan,
more than two-thirds of all albums purchased in the US were physical
CDs."

The online revolution has not yet consumed us. Given the info I posted
a
while ago about kids bying physical instead of virtual, that revolution
may be a long time coming.

I look at it like any other format change, it's gonna happen. My
questions are will artists benefit from the change and will the listening
experience/quality be compromised?

We're making pennies off the current system of digital distribution and I
cringe everytime I hear a compressed version of a tune I'm familiar with.
Earbuds, Pods/Pads, computers and such are becoming the dominant playback
devices. I don't think my niece and nephew even own a stereo system.

Steve Hawkins

[Neil Gould]

hank alrich wrote:
(Crossposted to RMMGA and RAP)

(snip)
http://digitalmusicnews.com/permalin...20104twothirds

"According to year-2011 breakdowns just shared by Nielsen Soundscan,
more than two-thirds of all albums purchased in the US were physical
CDs."

While this sounds encouraging, I suspect that most music downloads are
individual songs, and that those who want the full album are in the minority
of overall music sales. If so, producing a CD without mainstream appeal
could be an increasingly risky venture.

--
best regards,

Neil

[Arny Krueger[_4_]]

"Neil Gould" wrote in message
...
hank alrich wrote:
(Crossposted to RMMGA and RAP)

(snip)
http://digitalmusicnews.com/permalin...20104twothirds

"According to year-2011 breakdowns just shared by Nielsen Soundscan,
more than two-thirds of all albums purchased in the US were physical
CDs."

While this sounds encouraging, I suspect that most music downloads are
individual songs, and that those who want the full album are in the
minority
of overall music sales. If so, producing a CD without mainstream appeal
could be an increasingly risky venture.

RIAA tracks shipments.

The last year for which data is readily available is 2008. In 2008 there
were about 809 million downloaded singles and 42.5 downloaded albums. About
543 million CDs were shipped..

http://76.74.24.142/D5664E44-B9F7-69...05F2EB6EF2.pdf

[Jenn[_2_]]

In article ,
"Arny Krueger" wrote:

"Neil Gould" wrote in message
...
hank alrich wrote:
(Crossposted to RMMGA and RAP)

(snip)
http://digitalmusicnews.com/permalin...20104twothirds

"According to year-2011 breakdowns just shared by Nielsen Soundscan,
more than two-thirds of all albums purchased in the US were physical
CDs."

While this sounds encouraging, I suspect that most music downloads are
individual songs, and that those who want the full album are in the
minority
of overall music sales. If so, producing a CD without mainstream appeal
could be an increasingly risky venture.

RIAA tracks shipments.

The last year for which data is readily available is 2008. In 2008 there
were about 809 million downloaded singles and 42.5 downloaded albums. About
543 million CDs were shipped..

http://76.74.24.142/D5664E44-B9F7-69...05F2EB6EF2.pdf

2009 and 2010 figures:
http://76.74.24.142/548C3F4C-6B6D-F7...5E2AB93610.pdf

Downloads way up; CDs way down.

--
www.jennifermartinmusic.com

[Arny Krueger[_4_]]

"Jenn" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Arny Krueger" wrote:

"Neil Gould" wrote in message
...
hank alrich wrote:
(Crossposted to RMMGA and RAP)

(snip)
http://digitalmusicnews.com/permalin...20104twothirds

"According to year-2011 breakdowns just shared by Nielsen Soundscan,
more than two-thirds of all albums purchased in the US were physical
CDs."

While this sounds encouraging, I suspect that most music downloads are
individual songs, and that those who want the full album are in the
minority
of overall music sales. If so, producing a CD without mainstream appeal
could be an increasingly risky venture.

RIAA tracks shipments.

The last year for which data is readily available is 2008. In 2008 there
were about 809 million downloaded singles and 42.5 downloaded albums.
About
543 million CDs were shipped..

http://76.74.24.142/D5664E44-B9F7-69...05F2EB6EF2.pdf

2009 and 2010 figures:
http://76.74.24.142/548C3F4C-6B6D-F7...5E2AB93610.pdf

Downloads way up; CDs way down.

Everybody who is surprised should put on a pointed cap and sit in the
corner! ;-)

However, with much less than 1% of the market, non-digital recordings would
seem to be a very tiny niche.

[Scott Dorsey]

Arny Krueger wrote:

However, with much less than 1% of the market, non-digital recordings would
seem to be a very tiny niche.

Absolutely, but it's a great niche to be in.

Mind you, the whole market for music that is intended to be listened to
rather than absorbed in the background is a fairly tiny niche.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Ron Capik[_3_]]

On 1/5/2012 5:23 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
Arny wrote:

However, with much less than 1% of the market, non-digital recordings would
seem to be a very tiny niche.

Absolutely, but it's a great niche to be in.

Mind you, the whole market for music that is intended to be listened to
rather than absorbed in the background is a fairly tiny niche.
--scott
`
And that is, oh, such a sad commentary
on the state of today's musical culture.

Later...
Ron Capik
--

[hank alrich]

Jenn wrote:

In article ,
"Arny Krueger" wrote:

"Neil Gould" wrote in message
...
hank alrich wrote:
(Crossposted to RMMGA and RAP)

(snip)
http://digitalmusicnews.com/permalin...20104twothirds

"According to year-2011 breakdowns just shared by Nielsen Soundscan,
more than two-thirds of all albums purchased in the US were physical
CDs."

While this sounds encouraging, I suspect that most music downloads are
individual songs, and that those who want the full album are in the
minority
of overall music sales. If so, producing a CD without mainstream appeal
could be an increasingly risky venture.

RIAA tracks shipments.

The last year for which data is readily available is 2008. In 2008 there
were about 809 million downloaded singles and 42.5 downloaded albums. About
543 million CDs were shipped..

http://76.74.24.142/D5664E44-B9F7-69...05F2EB6EF2.pdf

2009 and 2010 figures:
http://76.74.24.142/548C3F4C-6B6D-F7...5E2AB93610.pdf

Downloads way up; CDs way down.

That's much to simple an observation, Jenn. I view it not as units,
where downloads of singles get compared to physical sales of albums, but
as revenue shares by the various formats. CD's are still pulling large
bucks, even given that many are sold (I've seen ten million annually
estimated) by nontraditional outlets, such as performers directly to
fans at shows.

Two third of _albums_ purchased in the US last year (2011) were in CD
format.




--
shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/
http://www.youtube.com/walkinaymusic
http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShaidri

[Mike Brown]

In article 0,
Steve Hawkins wrote:

(hank alrich) wrote in news:1kde7mq.1pyo0ig1sejgr8N%
:

(Crossposted to RMMGA and RAP)

We been having intermittent conversations about record sales. While we
are met with an ongoing barrage of hype that the future is all about
downloads, and that people, especially kids, don't want to purchase
physical product, yearly sales stats offer a look at that reality
interface where rubber meets road.

Apparently the future is not here yet. Here are spattered quotes and a
few links to Digital Music News articles this morning.

This first bit is about 2011 vinyl sales:

http://digitalmusicnews.com/permalink/2012/120104vinyl

"this is looking pretty bullish: according to stats just released by
Nielsen Soundscan, vinyl sales in the US topped 3.9 million in 2011, a
39.3 percent gain over 2010."

It is worthwhile to note that the figure for vinyl comes from Nielson
Soundscan, so this is product sold at checkout points where industry
data is logged and forwarded to Soundscan. The growth here does not
include what is likely a significant amout of vinyl product that never
even got its barcode, let alone a good scanning.

Next a look at total sales, including physical's share of the pie:

http://digitalmusicnews.com/permalin...20104twothirds

"According to year-2011 breakdowns just shared by Nielsen Soundscan,
more than two-thirds of all albums purchased in the US were physical
CDs."

The online revolution has not yet consumed us. Given the info I posted
a
while ago about kids bying physical instead of virtual, that revolution
may be a long time coming.

I look at it like any other format change, it's gonna happen. My
questions are will artists benefit from the change and will the listening
experience/quality be compromised?

We're making pennies off the current system of digital distribution and I
cringe everytime I hear a compressed version of a tune I'm familiar with.
Earbuds, Pods/Pads, computers and such are becoming the dominant playback
devices. I don't think my niece and nephew even own a stereo system.

Steve Hawkins

It all makes me very grateful that I have a good collection of vinyl and
CDs and a decent stereo.

I still but an occasional CD, but the stuff that I like isn't in the CD
shops (what few remain).

The CD shops are in an unfortunate position, they don't stock the sort
of music that a lot of people who like CDs would buy because there
aren't enough of us. The sort of music that they do stock is getting
downloaded.
A tough spot.

If I never bought another album, I'd have enough music to last me out
without too much frequent repetition.

MJRB

[JimLowther]

On Jan 5, 1:09*pm, (hank alrich) wrote:
(Crossposted to RMMGA and RAP)

We been having intermittent conversations about record sales. While we
are met with an ongoing barrage of hype that the future is all about
downloads, and that people, especially kids, don't want to purchase
physical product, yearly sales stats offer a look at that reality
interface where rubber meets road.

Apparently the future is not here yet. Here are spattered quotes and a
few links to Digital Music News articles this morning.

This first bit is about 2011 vinyl sales:

http://digitalmusicnews.com/permalink/2012/120104vinyl

"this is looking pretty bullish: according to stats just released by
Nielsen Soundscan, vinyl sales in the US topped 3.9 million in 2011, a
39.3 percent gain over 2010."

It is worthwhile to note that the figure for vinyl comes from Nielson
Soundscan, so this is product sold at checkout points where industry
data is logged and forwarded to Soundscan. The growth here does not
include what is likely a significant amout of vinyl product that never
even got its barcode, let alone a good scanning.

Next a look at total sales, including physical's share of the pie:

http://digitalmusicnews.com/permalin...20104twothirds

"According to year-2011 breakdowns just shared by Nielsen Soundscan,
more than two-thirds of all albums purchased in the US were physical
CDs."

The online revolution has not yet consumed us. Given the info I posted a
while ago about kids bying physical instead of virtual, that revolution
may be a long time coming.

--
shut up and play your guitar *http://hankalrich.com/http://www.you...HankandShaidri

Granted we are talking about different generations, but any nation
that can be sold on 8 track is likely to jump at anything.

Best wishes,

Dr. Jim Lowther

[Scott Dorsey]

Ron Capik wrote:
On 1/5/2012 5:23 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
Arny wrote:

However, with much less than 1% of the market, non-digital recordings would
seem to be a very tiny niche.

Absolutely, but it's a great niche to be in.

Mind you, the whole market for music that is intended to be listened to
rather than absorbed in the background is a fairly tiny niche.

And that is, oh, such a sad commentary
on the state of today's musical culture.

I'm not sure it was ever any different.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Les Cargill[_4_]]

JimLowther wrote:
On Jan 5, 1:09 pm, (hank alrich) wrote:
(Crossposted to RMMGA and RAP)

We been having intermittent conversations about record sales. While we
are met with an ongoing barrage of hype that the future is all about
downloads, and that people, especially kids, don't want to purchase
physical product, yearly sales stats offer a look at that reality
interface where rubber meets road.

Apparently the future is not here yet. Here are spattered quotes and a
few links to Digital Music News articles this morning.

This first bit is about 2011 vinyl sales:

http://digitalmusicnews.com/permalink/2012/120104vinyl

"this is looking pretty bullish: according to stats just released by
Nielsen Soundscan, vinyl sales in the US topped 3.9 million in 2011, a
39.3 percent gain over 2010."

It is worthwhile to note that the figure for vinyl comes from Nielson
Soundscan, so this is product sold at checkout points where industry
data is logged and forwarded to Soundscan. The growth here does not
include what is likely a significant amout of vinyl product that never
even got its barcode, let alone a good scanning.

Next a look at total sales, including physical's share of the pie:

http://digitalmusicnews.com/permalin...20104twothirds

"According to year-2011 breakdowns just shared by Nielsen Soundscan,
more than two-thirds of all albums purchased in the US were physical
CDs."

The online revolution has not yet consumed us. Given the info I posted a
while ago about kids bying physical instead of virtual, that revolution
may be a long time coming.

--
shut up and play your guitar *http://hankalrich.com/http://www.you...HankandShaidri

Granted we are talking about different generations, but any nation
that can be sold on 8 track is likely to jump at anything.

Best wishes,

Dr. Jim Lowther


8 track was an improvement over what people had for car stereo
before it - nothing.

--
Les Cargill

[Ron Capik[_3_]]

On 1/5/2012 7:18 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
Ron wrote:
On 1/5/2012 5:23 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
Arny wrote:

However, with much less than 1% of the market, non-digital recordings would
seem to be a very tiny niche.

Absolutely, but it's a great niche to be in.

Mind you, the whole market for music that is intended to be listened to
rather than absorbed in the background is a fairly tiny niche.

And that is, oh, such a sad commentary
on the state of today's musical culture.

I'm not sure it was ever any different.
--scott

I believe there was a brief period in the 60's
and 70's when people listened to full albums;
albums ranging from Broadway shows to
the Grand Canyon Suite to Houses of the Holy.

Then too, it depends on one's definition of
"intended to be listened to."

Later...
Ron Capik
--

[Mike Brown]

In article ,
Ron Capik wrote:

On 1/5/2012 7:18 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
Ron wrote:
On 1/5/2012 5:23 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
Arny wrote:

However, with much less than 1% of the market, non-digital recordings
would
seem to be a very tiny niche.

Absolutely, but it's a great niche to be in.

Mind you, the whole market for music that is intended to be listened to
rather than absorbed in the background is a fairly tiny niche.

And that is, oh, such a sad commentary
on the state of today's musical culture.

I'm not sure it was ever any different.
--scott

I believe there was a brief period in the 60's
and 70's when people listened to full albums;
albums ranging from Broadway shows to
the Grand Canyon Suite to Houses of the Holy.

Then too, it depends on one's definition of
"intended to be listened to."

Later...
Ron Capik
--

I still have and play a lot of classical, jazz, and rock albums that I
bought in that period, all real gems IMHO.

MJRB

[Mike Brown]

In article ,
Les Cargill wrote:

JimLowther wrote:
On Jan 5, 1:09 pm, (hank alrich) wrote:
(Crossposted to RMMGA and RAP)

We been having intermittent conversations about record sales. While we
are met with an ongoing barrage of hype that the future is all about
downloads, and that people, especially kids, don't want to purchase
physical product, yearly sales stats offer a look at that reality
interface where rubber meets road.

Apparently the future is not here yet. Here are spattered quotes and a
few links to Digital Music News articles this morning.

This first bit is about 2011 vinyl sales:

http://digitalmusicnews.com/permalink/2012/120104vinyl

"this is looking pretty bullish: according to stats just released by
Nielsen Soundscan, vinyl sales in the US topped 3.9 million in 2011, a
39.3 percent gain over 2010."

It is worthwhile to note that the figure for vinyl comes from Nielson
Soundscan, so this is product sold at checkout points where industry
data is logged and forwarded to Soundscan. The growth here does not
include what is likely a significant amout of vinyl product that never
even got its barcode, let alone a good scanning.

Next a look at total sales, including physical's share of the pie:

http://digitalmusicnews.com/permalin...20104twothirds

"According to year-2011 breakdowns just shared by Nielsen Soundscan,
more than two-thirds of all albums purchased in the US were physical
CDs."

The online revolution has not yet consumed us. Given the info I posted a
while ago about kids bying physical instead of virtual, that revolution
may be a long time coming.

--
shut up and play your guitar
*http://hankalrich.com/http://www.you...tp://www.sonic
bids.com/HankandShaidri

Granted we are talking about different generations, but any nation
that can be sold on 8 track is likely to jump at anything.

Best wishes,

Dr. Jim Lowther


8 track was an improvement over what people had for car stereo
before it - nothing.

--
Les Cargill

But then the sound in a car (unless you are going to park and listen)
isn't that important, I've never had a car in which it was worth while
playing anything that you really wanted to hear.

Of course some of the very latest are a lot quieter.

On a good road.

MJRB

[Les Cargill[_4_]]

Mike Brown wrote:
In ,
Les wrote:

JimLowther wrote:
On Jan 5, 1:09 pm, (hank alrich) wrote:
(Crossposted to RMMGA and RAP)

We been having intermittent conversations about record sales. While we
are met with an ongoing barrage of hype that the future is all about
downloads, and that people, especially kids, don't want to purchase
physical product, yearly sales stats offer a look at that reality
interface where rubber meets road.

Apparently the future is not here yet. Here are spattered quotes and a
few links to Digital Music News articles this morning.

This first bit is about 2011 vinyl sales:

http://digitalmusicnews.com/permalink/2012/120104vinyl

"this is looking pretty bullish: according to stats just released by
Nielsen Soundscan, vinyl sales in the US topped 3.9 million in 2011, a
39.3 percent gain over 2010."

It is worthwhile to note that the figure for vinyl comes from Nielson
Soundscan, so this is product sold at checkout points where industry
data is logged and forwarded to Soundscan. The growth here does not
include what is likely a significant amout of vinyl product that never
even got its barcode, let alone a good scanning.

Next a look at total sales, including physical's share of the pie:

http://digitalmusicnews.com/permalin...20104twothirds

"According to year-2011 breakdowns just shared by Nielsen Soundscan,
more than two-thirds of all albums purchased in the US were physical
CDs."

The online revolution has not yet consumed us. Given the info I posted a
while ago about kids bying physical instead of virtual, that revolution
may be a long time coming.

--
shut up and play your guitar
*http://hankalrich.com/http://www.you...tp://www.sonic
bids.com/HankandShaidri

Granted we are talking about different generations, but any nation
that can be sold on 8 track is likely to jump at anything.

Best wishes,

Dr. Jim Lowther


8 track was an improvement over what people had for car stereo
before it - nothing.

--
Les Cargill

But then the sound in a car (unless you are going to park and listen)
isn't that important, I've never had a car in which it was worth while
playing anything that you really wanted to hear.

Of course some of the very latest are a lot quieter.


A lot. I rode in a Cadillac that would be about five years old now - the
sort single women drive ( singer's girlfriend drive us to a gig in it ).
Very quiet car.


On a good road.

MJRB

--
Les Cargill

[Sean Conolly]

"Steve Hawkins" wrote in message
31.10...
(hank alrich) wrote in news:1kde7mq.1pyo0ig1sejgr8N%
:

We're making pennies off the current system of digital distribution and I
cringe everytime I hear a compressed version of a tune I'm familiar with.
Earbuds, Pods/Pads, computers and such are becoming the dominant playback
devices. I don't think my niece and nephew even own a stereo system.

This is a point I was considering recently - I actually know very few people
who have a decent home stereo now, because they're all just using whatever
they can connect to the computer or the TV.

Eventually people are going to rediscover how good uncompressed music can
sound, and how enjoyable it can be on it's own without some kind of video.
They may even start to rediscover how good LIVE music can be, surpassing
even the best recordings.

We can only hope.

Sean

[Arkansan Raider]

Sean Conolly wrote:

Eventually people are going to rediscover how good uncompressed music can
sound, and how enjoyable it can be on it's own without some kind of video.
They may even start to rediscover how good LIVE music can be, surpassing
even the best recordings.

We can only hope.

Sean



Preach it, brother.

---Jeff

[DeeAa[_4_]]

I for one firmly believe it won't take long for all physical media to
just basically vanish. I believe in a decade or two most data,
including music and video, are all on cloud servers, accessible
anywhere direct to earbuds or whatever device, whenever desired.

We've been Spotify subscribers for quite a while, and it pretty much
plays music on some machine all the time. Just 9,90 a month and
unlimited OK quality MP3 playback most anywhere. I hook my cell phone
to car stereo when I'm driving for it, wife plays it off her laptop
while at work, and home it's blaring from the media center PC in the
livingroom.

I don't see why I would need to ever buy music any more; I still have
two iPods with combined 200 gigabytes of music on them, but I hardly
ever need those even - any song I can think of wanting to listen is
either on Spotify, or those few that aren't, like AC/DC - well I have
converted my CD's to MP3's and have them on all my systems, including
the phone. I don't think I have listened to an entire album more than
maybe a few times in the past decade or more, usually it's always just
a few songs at most off one band, then onto the next. Why not, when
you have access to literally millions of songs from all across
history.

If it's not Spotify, well for instance when we have people visiting, I
may fire up a YouTube music video playlist of HQ videos to play. Sure,
sound quality is not quite the same, but then again - I never would
have the time to really listen and enjoy a more HQ song anyway. When I
listen to it while driving or talking with people or whatever, it
makes very little difference if it's wav or 200+ bitrate MP3. (well a
bad 128bt conversion even I cringe at; I aim for 320 usually),

I have not bought a CD in years, probably never will again. I still
use CD quality WAV data, I have ripped hundreds of my CD's to my DAW
harddrive, so I can listen to original 16bit 44.1 wavs for comparisons
when mixing, but when I mix, I basically aim for the stuff to become
MP3's anyway. I don't think many people will buy my mixes on CD
anyway, probably nobody, but quite a lot of people will hear them on
MP3. I'm in three bands and all my/our music is either freely
listeneable/downloadable on the net in 320 format, or in Spotify. I
don't even burn CD's no more and two of my computers don't even have
any optical drives - everything is stored on HD's and cloud services
or FTP servers directly to the net. I can stream music and video
between my computers and rooms and TV/media system wirelessly anyway,
so why bother having any physical copies around?

I believe in a matter of a few years it really is gonna be like I come
home, I just tell the home to turn on stuff, play music, just ask for
'some guitar blues' for instance and it will listen and play me some
suitable music it has selected for me through the home media system.
No need to even touch controls or spend time browsing for music. Hell
even my lowly my Xbox can already play music etc. with just voice
commands and hand movements, as long as it's on. And even Xbox games
you don't need to actually buy in physical format, just download them
directly to harddisk in a matter of minutes over the Internet, and for
cheaper than actual discs too. I just await the time I can ditch
keyboards and mice entirely and just write these messages even just by
looking at the screen and mumbling the words half aloud. Already
possible if not commercially available.

So yeah, at least for me physical music media is dead, has been for
many many years. Same goes for DVDs etc. because I can stream almost
any movie ever made instantly right to my screen in glorious 1080i and
great 5.1 surround sound. Hell I never go to movies either any more
because even the picture quality is better at home. Besides, who in
this day and age has hours to kill just for loitering to a theater
etc...

Cheers,

Dee

[John Williamson]

Ron Capik wrote:
I believe there was a brief period in the 60's
and 70's when people listened to full albums;
albums ranging from Broadway shows to
the Grand Canyon Suite to Houses of the Holy.

Might I be the only one who remenbers going to a friend's house to
listen to the latest and greatest album from whichever band we liked at
the time?

Or was everyone else rich enough to afford their own copies?


--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[Mike Brown]

In article ,
Arkansan Raider wrote:

Sean Conolly wrote:

Eventually people are going to rediscover how good uncompressed music can
sound, and how enjoyable it can be on it's own without some kind of video.
They may even start to rediscover how good LIVE music can be, surpassing
even the best recordings.

We can only hope.

Sean



Preach it, brother.

---Jeff

As far as I'm concerned, videos and music together are an anathema.

Unless it's a decent video of a good guitar picker plying his trade so
that I can see what he's up to.

MJRB

[Mike Brown]

In article
,
DeeAa wrote:

I don't see why I would need to ever buy music any more;

So, nobody can make a living from music?

Sounds like a sad old world to me, glad I won't be around to see it.

MJRB

[DeeAa[_4_]]

On 6 tammi, 14:02, Mike Brown wrote:
In article
,

*DeeAa wrote:
I don't see why I would need to ever buy music any more;

So, nobody can make a living from music?

Sounds like a sad old world to me, glad I won't be around to see it.

No, I mean, I pay a percentage of tax for every piece of equipment
that can play&store music or video, be it a floppy disk, harddrive,
TV, mobile phone, memory card, whatever...a percentage of everything
like that goes to ASCAP and is relayed to artists for radio play etc.

I also play the said 9,90 a month directly for being able to play
music anywhere.
I also pay a general media tax, part of which goes to ASCAP. I pay for
network access and cable TV part of which all goes to ASCAP.
I pay something like $40-$60 in media related payments a month, not
including phone bills etc. That's way more I have ever spent on CDs
per month for sure.

People who have a radio open in their store or company have to pay for
that also, according to number of listeners.

All this goes direct to ASCAP. Same as radio play and TV showings.
Every gig played, a report is made and sent to ASCAP who pay the
musician.

All that is changed is that instead of getting paid 90c per each $20
CD sold the musician gets paid directly by ASCAP and Spotify etc.

The musician doesn't suffer, large media companies may some.
If anything, having stopped paying for CD's and DVD's I've started
spending way more for music & media actually.

Cheers,

Dee

[Arny Krueger[_4_]]

"Sean Conolly" wrote in message
...
"Steve Hawkins" wrote in message
31.10...
(hank alrich) wrote in news:1kde7mq.1pyo0ig1sejgr8N%
:

We're making pennies off the current system of digital distribution and I
cringe everytime I hear a compressed version of a tune I'm familiar with.
Earbuds, Pods/Pads, computers and such are becoming the dominant playback
devices. I don't think my niece and nephew even own a stereo system.

This is a point I was considering recently - I actually know very few
people who have a decent home stereo now, because they're all just using
whatever they can connect to the computer or the TV.

Eventually people are going to rediscover how good uncompressed music can
sound, and how enjoyable it can be on it's own without some kind of video.
They may even start to rediscover how good LIVE music can be, surpassing
even the best recordings.

I am unsure about this. Reproduced sound has gotten so good that the
incentive to go to a live concert is vastly diminished.

Some years back I was invited to a so-called live concert and my mental
process was something like this:

The venue has thousands of seats and even though it is one of the best large
music venues in town, its day job is being a basketball stadium.

Their sound system isn't nearly as good as my home stereo. Their mixers are
questionable.

Some of the acts will be working with video that isn't as good as the large
screen HDTV at home.

The venue is so large that I will end up listening to their sound system and
watching their video.

I think I will stay home and if anything spend the money on several of the
artist's recordings, given the costs of even cheap concert tickets.

[Wilbur]

On Thu, 5 Jan 2012 23:02:18 -0800 (PST), DeeAa
wrote:

I for one firmly believe it won't take long for all physical media to
just basically vanish. I believe in a decade or two most data,
including music and video, are all on cloud servers, accessible
anywhere direct to earbuds or whatever device, whenever desired.


snip

A lot of people are going to hate what you wrote, and they'll
vociferously deny it and fight it. But I think you're just about spot
on.

[Arny Krueger[_4_]]

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
Ron Capik wrote:
On 1/5/2012 5:23 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
Arny wrote:

However, with much less than 1% of the market, non-digital recordings
would
seem to be a very tiny niche.

Absolutely, but it's a great niche to be in.

Mind you, the whole market for music that is intended to be listened to
rather than absorbed in the background is a fairly tiny niche.

And that is, oh, such a sad commentary
on the state of today's musical culture.

I'm not sure it was ever any different.

There was a time when music shows were just about the only shows in town -
up through the mid-1950s. If they weren't the only shows, they clearly
dominated.

TV changed all that - and vastly increased the amount of time that people
spent with drama as opposed to music shows.

At church music, even well-known local acts at well-publicized shows are
nearly zero as a draw. Other than the faithful, they have close to zero
drawing power.

Modern successful music events remind me of NASCAR. If you want to watch the
race, get into the strategy, and see all the racing moves - watch the race
on TV. If you want to get into the spectacle, the crowd and the visceral
excitement, go to the race. If you want to listen to musical artistry and
exciting moves, watch the Blu-Ray at home on a good AV system. If you want
to get into the spectacle, the crowd, and the visceral excitement, go to a
music show.

[Mike Rivers]

On 1/5/2012 5:46 PM, Mike Brown wrote:

The CD shops are in an unfortunate position, they don't stock the sort
of music that a lot of people who like CDs would buy because there
aren't enough of us. The sort of music that they do stock is getting
downloaded.
A tough spot.

That's a good summary of "the problem" but it's bigger than
that. It's been estimated that today there are close to 1000
CDs released every week. I can believe that based on the
number of new releases my folk DJ friend receives every
week, and that's just one genre. There are a small handful
of new CD releases from the major labels and the major
indies, but the vast majority are from individual artists
and there are a whole lot of individual artists offering
material for "us."

The trouble is that there are far too many us'uns for any
store to stock all of those CDs. I can remember a dozen
years of so going into a record store in Los Angeles that
sold only DJ/dance phonograph records. It was huge. It's
probably still around, though I suspect that today they sell
dance music CDs as well since so much DJ-ing is done off CD
today. Down Home Music in the Bay area specializes in roots
folk music and early jazz and it, too, is a large store. But
someone looking for any of the genres of hip-hop or acid
jazz or navel-gazing singer/songwriters wouldn't find
anything familiar there.

It's interesting to note that today, when it comes to the
number of titles, are more are duplicated in lots of 50 or
100 either by a short-run duplication service or on the
artist's dining room table. CD manufacturing plants are
closing up by leaps and bounds.

If I never bought another album, I'd have enough music to last me out
without too much frequent repetition.

I'm the same way. These days when I buy a CD, it's usually
directly from the artist, at a performance. It's not because
I expect to put it into heavy rotation here, it's because I
want to support the artist and keep him performing and not
give it up to become IT support or selling insurance.


--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be
operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although
it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge
of audio." - John Watkinson

http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and
interesting audio stuff

[Les Cargill[_4_]]

Arny Krueger wrote:
"Sean wrote in message
...
"Steve wrote in message
31.10...
(hank alrich) wrote in news:1kde7mq.1pyo0ig1sejgr8N%
:

We're making pennies off the current system of digital distribution and I
cringe everytime I hear a compressed version of a tune I'm familiar with.
Earbuds, Pods/Pads, computers and such are becoming the dominant playback
devices. I don't think my niece and nephew even own a stereo system.

This is a point I was considering recently - I actually know very few
people who have a decent home stereo now, because they're all just using
whatever they can connect to the computer or the TV.

Eventually people are going to rediscover how good uncompressed music can
sound, and how enjoyable it can be on it's own without some kind of video.
They may even start to rediscover how good LIVE music can be, surpassing
even the best recordings.

I am unsure about this. Reproduced sound has gotten so good that the
incentive to go to a live concert is vastly diminished.

Some years back I was invited to a so-called live concert and my mental
process was something like this:

The venue has thousands of seats and even though it is one of the best large
music venues in town, its day job is being a basketball stadium.

Their sound system isn't nearly as good as my home stereo. Their mixers are
questionable.

Some of the acts will be working with video that isn't as good as the large
screen HDTV at home.

The venue is so large that I will end up listening to their sound system and
watching their video.

I think I will stay home and if anything spend the money on several of the
artist's recordings, given the costs of even cheap concert tickets.




The last tickets I bought was to see Mark Knopfler at the Bronco Bowl in
Dallas.

It was never anything but a music venue. The sound system was
incredible. The show was at just about the perfect level. There
were no bad seats. The mixers were very, very good.

The Bronco Bowl is now.... a Home Depot.

--
Les Cargill

[Arkansan Raider]

Mike Brown wrote:

As far as I'm concerned, videos and music together are an anathema.

Unless it's a decent video of a good guitar picker plying his trade so
that I can see what he's up to.

MJRB

My fave DVDs are concert videos. I'm not much of a movie watcher
anymore, but I really enjoy the concert vids in my collection.

There's something about watching the interplay between the artists on
stage--even if I'm not physically present at a concert--the vid gives me
some good seats.

Still not the same as being there live, of course, but I enjoy the
experience.

---Jeff

[Arkansan Raider]

Deb Cowan wrote:


I haven't read all the posts in this thread, but I do want to say that
here in the US at least, the small intimate venue is quite popular. An
example of this would be the house concert, where there is hardly ever a
sound system used. Some homes have some excellent acoustics as do some
venues whose capacity is about 100.

I am a performer and for me, the smaller venues are wonderful. I love
the intimacy of performer and audience. As an audience member, I love
these venues as well. I will never ever go back to the stadium concert.
Besides, I just cannot afford the ticket prices these days.

So, Amy-seek out the small venue with wonderful acoustics and no sound
system.

Debra Cowan



As an a cappella guy, I have to tell you that the house concert is one
of my fave venues to perform in. I've only done a very small number of
them, but I absolutely loved it.

BTW, his name is Arny, not Amy. You may want to increase the font size
on your screen. ;^)

---Jeff

[MKR]

On Jan 6, 7:24*am, "Arny Krueger" wrote:
"Sean Conolly" wrote in message

...









"Steve Hawkins" wrote in message
. 131.10...
(hank alrich) wrote in news:1kde7mq.1pyo0ig1sejgr8N%
:

We're making pennies off the current system of digital distribution and I
cringe everytime I hear a compressed version of a tune I'm familiar with.
Earbuds, Pods/Pads, computers and such are becoming the dominant playback
devices. *I don't think my niece and nephew even own a stereo system..

This is a point I was considering recently - I actually know very few
people who have a decent home stereo now, because they're all just using
whatever they can connect to the computer or the TV.

Eventually people are going to rediscover how good uncompressed music can
sound, and how enjoyable it can be on it's own without some kind of video.
They may even start to rediscover how good LIVE music can be, surpassing
even the best recordings.

I am unsure about this. Reproduced sound has gotten so good that the
incentive to go to a live concert is vastly diminished.

Some years back I was invited to a so-called live concert and my mental
process was something like this:

The venue has thousands of seats and even though it is one of the best large
music venues in town, its day job is being a basketball stadium.


Yeah, but those things aren't really "concerts" - they're more
"events". The point of being there isn't so much the music as it is
just being there, I think maybe what Mr. Raider was referring to was
smaller venues designed specifically for music where the quality of
the sound is better.

[Arkansan Raider]

John Williamson wrote:
Ron Capik wrote:
I believe there was a brief period in the 60's
and 70's when people listened to full albums;
albums ranging from Broadway shows to
the Grand Canyon Suite to Houses of the Holy.

Might I be the only one who remenbers going to a friend's house to
listen to the latest and greatest album from whichever band we liked at
the time?

Or was everyone else rich enough to afford their own copies?



Absolutely not.

My friends and I still do this, and we can afford our own copies. We do
it purely for the fellowship and fun of it.

---Jeff

[MKR]

On Jan 6, 7:24*am, "Arny Krueger" wrote:
"Sean Conolly" wrote in message


oops, sorry - in my last post I mistakenly referred to a "Mr. Raider"
as the poster of a comment about LIVE music, and I just checked the
attributions and it was actually Sean Conolly's comment

[Scott Dorsey]

Ron Capik wrote:

I believe there was a brief period in the 60's
and 70's when people listened to full albums;
albums ranging from Broadway shows to
the Grand Canyon Suite to Houses of the Holy.

There are still folks today creating albums. There are still long classical
pieces being recorded. But they are not mainstream, and I am not sure they
were ever really all that mainstream.

Then too, it depends on one's definition of
"intended to be listened to."

Erik Satie talked about furniture music, that would be installed in a house
like furniture and would always be there in the background when you need it.
Mozart wrote plenty of that stuff too, pleasant music for the background at
a dinner party. The concept predates the Walkman.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Scott Dorsey]

John Williamson wrote:
Ron Capik wrote:
I believe there was a brief period in the 60's
and 70's when people listened to full albums;
albums ranging from Broadway shows to
the Grand Canyon Suite to Houses of the Holy.

Might I be the only one who remenbers going to a friend's house to
listen to the latest and greatest album from whichever band we liked at
the time?

Lots of radio stations had a program where they would, at some weird off-hour,
play the latest and greatest album on the radio, in its entirety. It was
a great DJ shift to have!
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Arkansan Raider]

MKR wrote:
On Jan 6, 7:24 am, "Arny Krueger" wrote:
"Sean Conolly" wrote in message


oops, sorry - in my last post I mistakenly referred to a "Mr. Raider"
as the poster of a comment about LIVE music, and I just checked the
attributions and it was actually Sean Conolly's comment


Hey! No mistakes allowed! This is LIVE, here!!!!!!!

;^)

---Jeff

[hank alrich]

Arkansan Raider wrote:

Sean Conolly wrote:

Eventually people are going to rediscover how good uncompressed music can
sound, and how enjoyable it can be on it's own without some kind of video.
They may even start to rediscover how good LIVE music can be, surpassing
even the best recordings.

We can only hope.

Sean



Preach it, brother.

This will not happen until the quality of live sound reinforcement gets
a friggin' clue. I've been spending enough time in Austin to hear
direcdtly that the situation is stupidly dire.

It does, however, offer opportunity for a handful of venues.

--
shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/
http://www.youtube.com/walkinaymusic
http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShaidri

[hank alrich]

Arny Krueger wrote:

"Sean Conolly" wrote in message
...
"Steve Hawkins" wrote in message
31.10...
(hank alrich) wrote in news:1kde7mq.1pyo0ig1sejgr8N%
:

We're making pennies off the current system of digital distribution and I
cringe everytime I hear a compressed version of a tune I'm familiar with.
Earbuds, Pods/Pads, computers and such are becoming the dominant playback
devices. I don't think my niece and nephew even own a stereo system.

This is a point I was considering recently - I actually know very few
people who have a decent home stereo now, because they're all just using
whatever they can connect to the computer or the TV.

Eventually people are going to rediscover how good uncompressed music can
sound, and how enjoyable it can be on it's own without some kind of video.
They may even start to rediscover how good LIVE music can be, surpassing
even the best recordings.

I am unsure about this. Reproduced sound has gotten so good that the
incentive to go to a live concert is vastly diminished.

Some years back I was invited to a so-called live concert and my mental
process was something like this:

The venue has thousands of seats and even though it is one of the best large
music venues in town, its day job is being a basketball stadium.

Their sound system isn't nearly as good as my home stereo. Their mixers are
questionable.

Some of the acts will be working with video that isn't as good as the large
screen HDTV at home.

The venue is so large that I will end up listening to their sound system and
watching their video.

I think I will stay home and if anything spend the money on several of the
artist's recordings, given the costs of even cheap concert tickets.

I could go point by point with accolades here, Arny. You have nailed it.
The appalling sound quality of most contemporary venues has driven away
a substantial segment of potential ticket purchasers.

It has also driven hundreds of households across America to start
offering house concerts, where often no sound system is required, and
where one is necessary, it will be operated under a philosophy of
genuine reinforcement. People come to hear the music, not the sound
system.

--
shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/
http://www.youtube.com/walkinaymusic
http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShaidri

[hank alrich]

DeeAa wrote:

I for one firmly believe it won't take long for all physical media to
just basically vanish. I believe in a decade or two most data,
including music and video, are all on cloud servers, accessible
anywhere direct to earbuds or whatever device, whenever desired.

We've been Spotify subscribers for quite a while, and it pretty much
plays music on some machine all the time. Just 9,90 a month and
unlimited OK quality MP3 playback most anywhere. I hook my cell phone
to car stereo when I'm driving for it, wife plays it off her laptop
while at work, and home it's blaring from the media center PC in the
livingroom.

Meanwhile, Spotify is losing money by the millions of dollars while
paying artists right next to nothing for the music you are enjoying.

I don't see why I would need to ever buy music any more; I still have
two iPods with combined 200 gigabytes of music on them, but I hardly
ever need those even - any song I can think of wanting to listen is
either on Spotify, or those few that aren't, like AC/DC - well I have
converted my CD's to MP3's and have them on all my systems, including
the phone. I don't think I have listened to an entire album more than
maybe a few times in the past decade or more, usually it's always just
a few songs at most off one band, then onto the next. Why not, when
you have access to literally millions of songs from all across
history.

If it's not Spotify, well for instance when we have people visiting, I
may fire up a YouTube music video playlist of HQ videos to play. Sure,
sound quality is not quite the same, but then again - I never would
have the time to really listen and enjoy a more HQ song anyway. When I
listen to it while driving or talking with people or whatever, it
makes very little difference if it's wav or 200+ bitrate MP3. (well a
bad 128bt conversion even I cringe at; I aim for 320 usually),

I have not bought a CD in years, probably never will again. I still
use CD quality WAV data, I have ripped hundreds of my CD's to my DAW
harddrive, so I can listen to original 16bit 44.1 wavs for comparisons
when mixing, but when I mix, I basically aim for the stuff to become
MP3's anyway. I don't think many people will buy my mixes on CD
anyway, probably nobody, but quite a lot of people will hear them on
MP3. I'm in three bands and all my/our music is either freely
listeneable/downloadable on the net in 320 format, or in Spotify. I
don't even burn CD's no more and two of my computers don't even have
any optical drives - everything is stored on HD's and cloud services
or FTP servers directly to the net. I can stream music and video
between my computers and rooms and TV/media system wirelessly anyway,
so why bother having any physical copies around?

I believe in a matter of a few years it really is gonna be like I come
home, I just tell the home to turn on stuff, play music, just ask for
'some guitar blues' for instance and it will listen and play me some
suitable music it has selected for me through the home media system.
No need to even touch controls or spend time browsing for music. Hell
even my lowly my Xbox can already play music etc. with just voice
commands and hand movements, as long as it's on. And even Xbox games
you don't need to actually buy in physical format, just download them
directly to harddisk in a matter of minutes over the Internet, and for
cheaper than actual discs too. I just await the time I can ditch
keyboards and mice entirely and just write these messages even just by
looking at the screen and mumbling the words half aloud. Already
possible if not commercially available.

So yeah, at least for me physical music media is dead, has been for
many many years. Same goes for DVDs etc. because I can stream almost
any movie ever made instantly right to my screen in glorious 1080i and
great 5.1 surround sound. Hell I never go to movies either any more
because even the picture quality is better at home. Besides, who in
this day and age has hours to kill just for loitering to a theater
etc...

Cheers,

Dee

Not everyone has such useful bandwidth.

Meanwhile, the rate of compensation to the creators of the music you're
enjoying via Spotify is such that if they "succeed" the musicians will
be finding other work.

Leaked internal documents allegedley show them to be ripping off artists
and labels at an impressive rate.

--
shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/
http://www.youtube.com/walkinaymusic
http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShaidri