Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
willbill willbill is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 58
Default surround sound 5.1 cables: 6 RCA vs toslink vs HDMI

surround sound 5.1 cables: 6 RCA vs toslink vs HDMI

for DVD movies with half decent DD5.1 and/or DTS5.1
sound, anybody else notice that their AVR (that has 6 RCA
inputs for 5.1, as well as a player with 6 RCA outputs)
sounds better when used with the 6 RCA cables?

i.e. than 5.1 audio via either a toslink connection
or an HDMI connection

for the moment, i'm inclined to not buy either
of the new hi def movie players (i.e. HD-DVD
and/or Blu-Ray) unless it has 5.1 via 6 RCA cables

agreed or disagreed?

bill
  #2   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
Sonnova Sonnova is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,337
Default surround sound 5.1 cables: 6 RCA vs toslink vs HDMI

On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 07:34:00 -0800, willbill wrote
(in article ):

surround sound 5.1 cables: 6 RCA vs toslink vs HDMI

for DVD movies with half decent DD5.1 and/or DTS5.1
sound, anybody else notice that their AVR (that has 6 RCA
inputs for 5.1, as well as a player with 6 RCA outputs)
sounds better when used with the 6 RCA cables?

i.e. than 5.1 audio via either a toslink connection
or an HDMI connection

for the moment, i'm inclined to not buy either
of the new hi def movie players (i.e. HD-DVD
and/or Blu-Ray) unless it has 5.1 via 6 RCA cables

agreed or disagreed?

bill


Sounds to me like what you are saying is that you like the surround-sound
decoder chip in your DVD player better than you like the one in your AVR
because that's the only difference. TOSLINK and HDMI carry the un-decoded 5.1
DIGITAL bit stream from the player to the Dolby/DTS decoder in your receiver,
where it's processed into analog, while the 6 RCAs carry the already decoded
ANALOG signal from your DVD player (many of which have surround-sound
decoders already built-in). So the choice is yours decode the sound in the
player or decode the sound in the receiver.

Here's the rub: just because the surround-sound decoder in your DVD player
seems to be better than the one in your receiver, doesn't necessarily mean
that the decoder that comes in a Blu-ray or HD-DVD player will continue that
tradition and there is no way (except by auditioning at home before buying)
to tell beforehand. In other words, the type of interconnect is NOT what is
determining the quality of the surround-sound in your system. It's the
decoder you are using. With the 6 individual RCAs you are decoding the
surround-sound in the DVD player itself, and with TOSLINK or HDMI, you are
using your AVR to do the decoding. It is possible for one decoder chip to be
better sounding than another and that's doubtless what you are experiencing.
  #3   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
willbill willbill is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 58
Default surround sound 5.1 cables: 6 RCA vs toslink vs HDMI

ScottW wrote:

"willbill" wrote in message
...


surround sound 5.1 cables: 6 RCA vs toslink vs HDMI

for DVD movies with half decent DD5.1 and/or DTS5.1
sound, anybody else notice that their AVR (that has 6 RCA
inputs for 5.1, as well as a player with 6 RCA outputs)
sounds better when used with the 6 RCA cables?


I'd suggest that if you're making this kind of comparison
you might be unaware that the settings for channel
levels or bass management might not be the same
in the two configurations and therefore create a sound difference.

ScottW


yes, i'm well aware of the issues of SPL levels
when making listening comparisons; and yes the
AVR's bass management (level adjustment) is also
different when the sound comes in via toslink
vs. via the 6 RCA connectors

bill
  #4   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
willbill willbill is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 58
Default surround sound 5.1 cables: 6 RCA vs toslink vs HDMI

Sonnova wrote:

On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 07:34:00 -0800, willbill wrote
(in article ):


surround sound 5.1 cables: 6 RCA vs toslink vs HDMI

for DVD movies with half decent DD5.1 and/or DTS5.1
sound, anybody else notice that their AVR (that has 6 RCA
inputs for 5.1, as well as a player with 6 RCA outputs)
sounds better when used with the 6 RCA cables?

i.e. than 5.1 audio via either a toslink connection
or an HDMI connection

for the moment, i'm inclined to not buy either
of the new hi def movie players (i.e. HD-DVD
and/or Blu-Ray) unless it has 5.1 via 6 RCA cables

agreed or disagreed?


Sounds to me like what you are saying is that
you like the surround-sound decoder chip in
your DVD player better than you like the one
in your AVR because that's the only difference.


my DVD player = $230 OPPO DV-981HD

my AVR = $800 Denon AVR-2307CI

if it is due to a decoder quality difference,
i hardly expected it to favor the OPPO;
meaning that it raised a couple of other
possibilities including that the audio data
transmitted via either toslink or HDMI may
not be as "good" as that via 6 RCA

TOSLINK and HDMI carry the un-decoded 5.1
DIGITAL bit stream from the player to the
Dolby/DTS decoder in your receiver,
where it's processed into analog,


yes, i'm aware of that

while the 6 RCAs carry the already decoded
ANALOG signal from your DVD player (many of which
have surround-sound decoders already built-in).
So the choice is yours decode the sound in the
player or decode the sound in the receiver.

Here's the rub: just because the surround-sound decoder
in your DVD player seems to be better than the one in your
receiver, doesn't necessarily mean that the decoder that
comes in a Blu-ray or HD-DVD player will continue that
tradition and there is no way (except by auditioning at
home before buying) to tell beforehand.


tell me about it!

i still remember my 1st big, heavy, expensive
solid state amp, circa 1975

what a major learning experience/disappointment
that was.

but since you bring the subject up, and since i'm
thinking about getting one of the Toshiba HD-A2 players
(or the still newer HD-A3), and assumming it has 6 RCA
as well as toslink and HDMI, does it decode/sound ok?

also, don't get me wrong, the Denon AVR is rather
good and i don't plan to toss it out

In other words, the type of interconnect is NOT what is
determining the quality of the surround-sound in your system.


as far as i'm concerned, it's still an open question,
and hopefully i get closer to a more informed judgement
as to what reason(s) the difference is due to

for the moment, so long as i can set up the unit remotes
to easily switch to the best sound setup, i'm a happy camper

bill

It's the
decoder you are using. With the 6 individual RCAs you are decoding the
surround-sound in the DVD player itself, and with TOSLINK or HDMI, you are
using your AVR to do the decoding. It is possible for one decoder chip to be
better sounding than another and that's doubtless what you are experiencing.

  #5   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
Steven Sullivan Steven Sullivan is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,268
Default surround sound 5.1 cables: 6 RCA vs toslink vs HDMI

willbill wrote:
ScottW wrote:


"willbill" wrote in message
...


surround sound 5.1 cables: 6 RCA vs toslink vs HDMI

for DVD movies with half decent DD5.1 and/or DTS5.1
sound, anybody else notice that their AVR (that has 6 RCA
inputs for 5.1, as well as a player with 6 RCA outputs)
sounds better when used with the 6 RCA cables?


I'd suggest that if you're making this kind of comparison
you might be unaware that the settings for channel
levels or bass management might not be the same
in the two configurations and therefore create a sound difference.

ScottW


yes, i'm well aware of the issues of SPL levels
when making listening comparisons; and yes the
AVR's bass management (level adjustment) is also
different when the sound comes in via toslink
vs. via the 6 RCA connectors


Do you have bass management and delays and speaker level settings
on in you player *and* your receiver?

___
-S
"As human beings, we understand the world through simile, analogy,
metaphor, narrative and, sometimes, claymation." - B. Mason


  #6   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
Steven Sullivan Steven Sullivan is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,268
Default surround sound 5.1 cables: 6 RCA vs toslink vs HDMI

willbill wrote:
Sonnova wrote:


On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 07:34:00 -0800, willbill wrote
(in article ):


surround sound 5.1 cables: 6 RCA vs toslink vs HDMI

for DVD movies with half decent DD5.1 and/or DTS5.1
sound, anybody else notice that their AVR (that has 6 RCA
inputs for 5.1, as well as a player with 6 RCA outputs)
sounds better when used with the 6 RCA cables?

i.e. than 5.1 audio via either a toslink connection
or an HDMI connection

for the moment, i'm inclined to not buy either
of the new hi def movie players (i.e. HD-DVD
and/or Blu-Ray) unless it has 5.1 via 6 RCA cables

agreed or disagreed?


Sounds to me like what you are saying is that
you like the surround-sound decoder chip in
your DVD player better than you like the one
in your AVR because that's the only difference.


my DVD player = $230 OPPO DV-981HD


my AVR = $800 Denon AVR-2307CI


if it is due to a decoder quality difference,
i hardly expected it to favor the OPPO;
meaning that it raised a couple of other
possibilities including that the audio data
transmitted via either toslink or HDMI may
not be as "good" as that via 6 RCA


again, if you are applying processing to the
signal in the player for one output, and in the
AVR for another, then unless the processing is the
same, the final sound may be different.

For a fairer test, turn off all processing in
both (except perhaps for speaker levels, to match
levels) and compare the two.

___
-S
"As human beings, we understand the world through simile, analogy,
metaphor, narrative and, sometimes, claymation." - B. Mason
  #7   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
Sonnova Sonnova is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,337
Default surround sound 5.1 cables: 6 RCA vs toslink vs HDMI

On Mon, 12 Nov 2007 15:48:59 -0800, willbill wrote
(in article ):

Sonnova wrote:

On Sun, 11 Nov 2007 07:34:00 -0800, willbill wrote
(in article ):


surround sound 5.1 cables: 6 RCA vs toslink vs HDMI

for DVD movies with half decent DD5.1 and/or DTS5.1
sound, anybody else notice that their AVR (that has 6 RCA
inputs for 5.1, as well as a player with 6 RCA outputs)
sounds better when used with the 6 RCA cables?

i.e. than 5.1 audio via either a toslink connection
or an HDMI connection

for the moment, i'm inclined to not buy either
of the new hi def movie players (i.e. HD-DVD
and/or Blu-Ray) unless it has 5.1 via 6 RCA cables

agreed or disagreed?


Sounds to me like what you are saying is that
you like the surround-sound decoder chip in
your DVD player better than you like the one
in your AVR because that's the only difference.


my DVD player = $230 OPPO DV-981HD

my AVR = $800 Denon AVR-2307CI

if it is due to a decoder quality difference,
i hardly expected it to favor the OPPO;
meaning that it raised a couple of other
possibilities including that the audio data
transmitted via either toslink or HDMI may
not be as "good" as that via 6 RCA


Let's try again. TOSLINK and HDMI are not carrying audio at all, they are
carrying the digital bit stream. The RCA's ARE carrying audio. The OPPO has a
very good reputation for sounding extremely good, so it doesn't surprise me
that you find the OPPO's decoder to be better than the Denon's.

TOSLINK and HDMI carry the un-decoded 5.1
DIGITAL bit stream from the player to the
Dolby/DTS decoder in your receiver,
where it's processed into analog,


yes, i'm aware of that

while the 6 RCAs carry the already decoded
ANALOG signal from your DVD player (many of which
have surround-sound decoders already built-in).
So the choice is yours decode the sound in the
player or decode the sound in the receiver.

Here's the rub: just because the surround-sound decoder
in your DVD player seems to be better than the one in your
receiver, doesn't necessarily mean that the decoder that
comes in a Blu-ray or HD-DVD player will continue that
tradition and there is no way (except by auditioning at
home before buying) to tell beforehand.


tell me about it!

i still remember my 1st big, heavy, expensive
solid state amp, circa 1975

what a major learning experience/disappointment
that was.

but since you bring the subject up, and since i'm
thinking about getting one of the Toshiba HD-A2 players
(or the still newer HD-A3), and assumming it has 6 RCA
as well as toslink and HDMI, does it decode/sound ok?


I have an HD-A2. I use coaxial digital to connect to my Harman-Kardon
AVR-7000. This receiver uses Lexicon surround-sound processing - which is why
I bit the bullet and paid close to $2000 for it and is excellent. I've never
tried the 6 analog outputs from the player.

also, don't get me wrong, the Denon AVR is rather
good and i don't plan to toss it out

In other words, the type of interconnect is NOT what is
determining the quality of the surround-sound in your system.


as far as i'm concerned, it's still an open question,
and hopefully i get closer to a more informed judgement
as to what reason(s) the difference is due to


Actually, it's not an open question. You are comparing apples to oranges.
HDMI/TOSLINK is digital, and the RCAs are analog. You're just moving the
location of the digital decode for your surround sound. It's that cut-and
dry.

  #8   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
willbill willbill is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 58
Default surround sound 5.1 cables: 6 RCA vs toslink vs HDMI

Steven Sullivan wrote:

willbill wrote:


my DVD player = $230 OPPO DV-981HD
my AVR = $800 Denon AVR-2307CI

if it is due to a decoder quality difference,
i hardly expected it to favor the OPPO;
meaning that it raised a couple of other
possibilities including that the audio data
transmitted via either toslink or HDMI may
not be as "good" as that via 6 RCA


again, if you are applying processing to the
signal in the player for one output, and in the
AVR for another, then unless the processing is the
same, the final sound may be different.


processing in the player is the same
for both listening comparisons

the primary diff is the decoder used,
secondarily the audio cables used,
with a third small diff being the
subwoffer boost

bill
  #9   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
willbill willbill is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 58
Default surround sound 5.1 cables: 6 RCA vs toslink vs HDMI

Sonnova wrote:

On Mon, 12 Nov 2007 15:48:59 -0800, willbill wrote:


my DVD player = $230 OPPO DV-981HD

my AVR = $800 Denon AVR-2307CI

if it is due to a decoder quality difference,
i hardly expected it to favor the OPPO;
meaning that it raised a couple of other
possibilities including that the audio data
transmitted via either toslink or HDMI may
not be as "good" as that via 6 RCA


Let's try again. TOSLINK and HDMI are not carrying audio at all,
they are carrying the digital bit stream.


audio is audio

the diffs are the transport mechanism and whether
the mechanical recorded source is digital or analog;
the usual starting source (performance) is normally
analog audio

The RCA's ARE carrying audio. The OPPO has a
very good reputation for sounding extremely good,
so it doesn't surprise me that you find the OPPO's
decoder to be better than the Denon's.


yes, the OPPO does have a great reputation

so yes, the decoder is a very real possibility

but since you bring the subject up, and since i'm
thinking about getting one of the Toshiba HD-A2 players
(or the still newer HD-A3), and assumming it has 6 RCA
as well as toslink and HDMI, does it decode/sound ok?


I have an HD-A2. I use coaxial digital to connect to my Harman-Kardon
AVR-7000. This receiver uses Lexicon surround-sound processing - which is why
I bit the bullet and paid close to $2000 for it and is excellent. I've never
tried the 6 analog outputs from the player.


the Toshiba HD-A2, that you have,
does *not* have 6 analog outputs!

correct me if i'm wrong.

you might consider doing an a/b of inputting
surround audio via coax digital (which you apparently
presently do) vs. toslink optical (also digital)

odds are that you will find a noticable improvement
with the toslink optical input.

In other words, the type of interconnect is NOT what is
determining the quality of the surround-sound in your system.


as far as i'm concerned, it's still an open question,
and hopefully i get closer to a more informed judgement
as to what reason(s) the difference is due to


Actually, it's not an open question. You are comparing apples to oranges.
HDMI/TOSLINK is digital, and the RCAs are analog. You're just moving the
location of the digital decode for your surround sound. It's that cut-and
dry.


in my long experience, audio is *never* cut-and-dry

and i'm confident that i'm not comparing apples to oranges

bill
  #10   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
willbill willbill is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 58
Default surround sound 5.1 cables: 6 RCA vs toslink vs HDMI

Steven Sullivan wrote:

Do you have bass management and delays
and speaker level settings on in you player
*and* your receiver?


i think you're missing the point

the question was/is: if digital audio
via toslink and/or HDMI cables is equal
to that via 6 RCA cables

my ears tell me that it is not, and
my hunch is that this is really true
that it is not

fwiw, i've pulled down some of the specs
on HDMI from www.wiki.org (.wikipedia.?)
and maybe this will get me to do a detailed
look through them. not sure if i've got
anything from wiki on toslink specs

bill



  #11   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
Kalman Rubinson Kalman Rubinson is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 312
Default surround sound 5.1 cables: 6 RCA vs toslink vs HDMI

On 13 Nov 2007 03:40:50 GMT, Sonnova
wrote:

I have an HD-A2. I use coaxial digital to connect to my Harman-Kardon
AVR-7000. This receiver uses Lexicon surround-sound processing - which is why
I bit the bullet and paid close to $2000 for it and is excellent. I've never
tried the 6 analog outputs from the player.


Unfortunately, that arrangement does not permit you to enjoy any of
the new lossless CODECs (Dolby TrueHD, dtsHD-MA) which can be output
only over HDMI (as bitstream or LPCM) or over analog outputs.

Kal
  #12   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
Sonnova Sonnova is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,337
Default surround sound 5.1 cables: 6 RCA vs toslink vs HDMI

On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 16:00:29 -0800, willbill wrote
(in article ):

Steven Sullivan wrote:

Do you have bass management and delays
and speaker level settings on in you player
*and* your receiver?


i think you're missing the point

the question was/is: if digital audio
via toslink and/or HDMI cables is equal
to that via 6 RCA cables

my ears tell me that it is not, and
my hunch is that this is really true
that it is not

fwiw, i've pulled down some of the specs
on HDMI from www.wiki.org (.wikipedia.?)
and maybe this will get me to do a detailed
look through them. not sure if i've got
anything from wiki on toslink specs

bill


It doesn't matter. What you are "wondering" is if the method of transferring
a digital bit-stream, whether optically or via coaxial (HDMI) a few inches
(from the laser pickup in the player to the on-board surround-sound
processor) or several feet from the player to the surround decoder in your
Denon AVR can make a difference in sound quality. If the length of the signal
path had any effect on the bit-stream, what does that say about downloading
music from the internet where the path may be thousands of miles over fiber
optics and coax (and maybe even twisted pair)? The answer is, of course, NO.
If all the bits get to the decoder it doesn't matter how long the transfer
path is. Bits is bits. Whether the decoder is in the player and you are
routing the six channels of audio to your receiver, or if you are taking the
digital output from the player to the digital input of your receiver, the
digital signal is, ostensibly, the same in either case. The only difference
can be what the two surround decoders do to the decoded audio once it has
been processed.
  #13   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
Steven Sullivan Steven Sullivan is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,268
Default surround sound 5.1 cables: 6 RCA vs toslink vs HDMI

willbill wrote:
Steven Sullivan wrote:


Do you have bass management and delays
and speaker level settings on in you player
*and* your receiver?


i think you're missing the point


the question was/is: if digital audio
via toslink and/or HDMI cables is equal
to that via 6 RCA cables


And the answer is, much depends on the settings
being applied to each. And the relative performance
of the DAC and post-DAC stages involved.

my ears tell me that it is not, and
my hunch is that this is really true
that it is not


Your reasoning about causes and effects is flawed.

___
-S
"As human beings, we understand the world through simile, analogy,
metaphor, narrative and, sometimes, claymation." - B. Mason
  #14   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
Sonnova Sonnova is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,337
Default surround sound 5.1 cables: 6 RCA vs toslink vs HDMI

On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 15:59:48 -0800, willbill wrote
(in article ):

Sonnova wrote:

On Mon, 12 Nov 2007 15:48:59 -0800, willbill wrote:


my DVD player = $230 OPPO DV-981HD

my AVR = $800 Denon AVR-2307CI

if it is due to a decoder quality difference,
i hardly expected it to favor the OPPO;
meaning that it raised a couple of other
possibilities including that the audio data
transmitted via either toslink or HDMI may
not be as "good" as that via 6 RCA


Let's try again. TOSLINK and HDMI are not carrying audio at all,
they are carrying the digital bit stream.


audio is audio


and digital is digital, but digital isn't "audio" until it is decoded, nor is
"audio" digital.

the diffs are the transport mechanism and whether
the mechanical recorded source is digital or analog;
the usual starting source (performance) is normally
analog audio


But the transport mechanism is the same for both sets of outputs.

The RCA's ARE carrying audio. The OPPO has a
very good reputation for sounding extremely good,
so it doesn't surprise me that you find the OPPO's
decoder to be better than the Denon's.


yes, the OPPO does have a great reputation

so yes, the decoder is a very real possibility

but since you bring the subject up, and since i'm
thinking about getting one of the Toshiba HD-A2 players
(or the still newer HD-A3), and assumming it has 6 RCA
as well as toslink and HDMI, does it decode/sound ok?


I have an HD-A2. I use coaxial digital to connect to my Harman-Kardon
AVR-7000. This receiver uses Lexicon surround-sound processing - which is
why
I bit the bullet and paid close to $2000 for it and is excellent. I've
never
tried the 6 analog outputs from the player.


the Toshiba HD-A2, that you have,
does *not* have 6 analog outputs!

correct me if i'm wrong.


It might not, I've never actually looked.

you might consider doing an a/b of inputting
surround audio via coax digital (which you apparently
presently do) vs. toslink optical (also digital)


I've never heard any difference between TOSLINK digital, and Coax digital

odds are that you will find a noticable improvement
with the toslink optical input.


I doubt if there is any difference. In fact, when TOSLINK first appeared,
many audiophiles found just the opposite to be true. I.E., that TOSLINK
sounded distinctly inferior to either coax or glass-fiber, and indeed, some
tests showed that the bandwidth of many early TOSLINK setups was much
narrower than that of either coax or glass-fiber. However, that difference
has been long since addressed. The optical transducers on both ends of modern
TOSLINK connections have been significantly improved.

In other words, the type of interconnect is NOT what is
determining the quality of the surround-sound in your system.


as far as i'm concerned, it's still an open question,
and hopefully i get closer to a more informed judgement
as to what reason(s) the difference is due to


Actually, it's not an open question. You are comparing apples to oranges.
HDMI/TOSLINK is digital, and the RCAs are analog. You're just moving the
location of the digital decode for your surround sound. It's that cut-and
dry.


in my long experience, audio is *never* cut-and-dry

and i'm confident that i'm not comparing apples to oranges


Believe me. It CAN'T be anything else.

  #15   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
Sonnova Sonnova is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,337
Default surround sound 5.1 cables: 6 RCA vs toslink vs HDMI

On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 16:12:17 -0800, Kalman Rubinson wrote
(in article ):

On 13 Nov 2007 03:40:50 GMT, Sonnova
wrote:

I have an HD-A2. I use coaxial digital to connect to my Harman-Kardon
AVR-7000. This receiver uses Lexicon surround-sound processing - which is
why
I bit the bullet and paid close to $2000 for it and is excellent. I've
never
tried the 6 analog outputs from the player.


Unfortunately, that arrangement does not permit you to enjoy any of
the new lossless CODECs (Dolby TrueHD, dtsHD-MA) which can be output
only over HDMI (as bitstream or LPCM) or over analog outputs.

Kal


What makes you think that the AVR-7000 does not have 6 discrete audio inputs?


  #16   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
willbill willbill is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 58
Default surround sound 5.1 cables: 6 RCA vs toslink vs HDMI

Sonnova wrote:

On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 15:59:48 -0800, willbill wrote
(in article ):


Sonnova wrote:


I have an HD-A2. I use coaxial digital to connect to my Harman-Kardon
AVR-7000. This receiver uses Lexicon surround-sound processing - which is
is why I bit the bullet and paid close to $2000 for it and is excellent.
I've never tried the 6 analog outputs from the player.


the Toshiba HD-A2, that you have,
does *not* have 6 analog outputs!

correct me if i'm wrong.


It might not, I've never actually looked.


fwiw, i thought that it did but then went
out to www.toshiba.com and checked and
discovered that of the 6 current models
only the most expensive of each line
has 6 analog outputs!

so i can't justify one for it's ability
to upscale normal DVD movies

you might consider doing an a/b of inputting
surround audio via coax digital (which you apparently
presently do) vs. toslink optical (also digital)



I've never heard any difference between TOSLINK digital, and Coax digital


odds are that you will find a noticable improvement
with the toslink optical input.



I doubt if there is any difference. In fact, when TOSLINK first appeared,
many audiophiles found just the opposite to be true. I.E., that TOSLINK
sounded distinctly inferior to either coax or glass-fiber, and indeed, some
tests showed that the bandwidth of many early TOSLINK setups was much
narrower than that of either coax or glass-fiber. However, that difference
has been long since addressed. The optical transducers on both ends of modern
TOSLINK connections have been significantly improved.


you might actually try connecting sound
with toslink again with your current AVR

the main key thing that i listen for
is that the sound is less flat

but going back to your HD-A2, do you find the
surround sound of the HD-DVD movies, that you've
so far gotten, to be noticeably superior to that
of ordinary DVD movies?

to my mind, better surround audio is the one real
trump card that they can play with hi def movies.
but so far they don't seem to have done it;
at least not yet. they certainly have plenty
of great source material in the vaults

bill
  #17   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
Sonnova Sonnova is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,337
Default surround sound 5.1 cables: 6 RCA vs toslink vs HDMI

On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 15:13:39 -0800, willbill wrote
(in article ):

Sonnova wrote:

On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 15:59:48 -0800, willbill wrote
(in article ):


Sonnova wrote:


I have an HD-A2. I use coaxial digital to connect to my Harman-Kardon
AVR-7000. This receiver uses Lexicon surround-sound processing - which is
is why I bit the bullet and paid close to $2000 for it and is excellent.
I've never tried the 6 analog outputs from the player.


the Toshiba HD-A2, that you have,
does *not* have 6 analog outputs!

correct me if i'm wrong.


It might not, I've never actually looked.


fwiw, i thought that it did but then went
out to www.toshiba.com and checked and
discovered that of the 6 current models
only the most expensive of each line
has 6 analog outputs!

so i can't justify one for it's ability
to upscale normal DVD movies

you might consider doing an a/b of inputting
surround audio via coax digital (which you apparently
presently do) vs. toslink optical (also digital)



I've never heard any difference between TOSLINK digital, and Coax digital


odds are that you will find a noticable improvement
with the toslink optical input.



I doubt if there is any difference. In fact, when TOSLINK first appeared,
many audiophiles found just the opposite to be true. I.E., that TOSLINK
sounded distinctly inferior to either coax or glass-fiber, and indeed, some
tests showed that the bandwidth of many early TOSLINK setups was much
narrower than that of either coax or glass-fiber. However, that difference
has been long since addressed. The optical transducers on both ends of
modern
TOSLINK connections have been significantly improved.


you might actually try connecting sound
with toslink again with your current AVR


I do use TOSLINK from my HD-A2 to my H-K AVR-7000 and I have tried coaxial.
No difference.

the main key thing that i listen for
is that the sound is less flat

but going back to your HD-A2, do you find the
surround sound of the HD-DVD movies, that you've
so far gotten, to be noticeably superior to that
of ordinary DVD movies?


Absolutely, but not for the reasons that I suspect that you think. Most DVDs
are Dolby 5.1 encoded. AFAIK, all HD-DVD releases are DTS. DTS sounds
superior to Dolby 5.1.

to my mind, better surround audio is the one real
trump card that they can play with hi def movies.
but so far they don't seem to have done it;
at least not yet. they certainly have plenty
of great source material in the vaults


Cinema sound does not impress me that much. It is highly processed, and on
older films overdubbed to the hilt. As long as they do a good job on the
surround effects, and the dialog is good and clear, I'm not that critical.
Like I said, I do notice that music sounds better from DTS than from Dolby
5.1, and I suspect that the new lossless compression schemes used by both
High-Definition DVD camps (Blu-Ray and HD-DVD) are even better. But with
movies, the main emphasis is visual and most modern films sound better in my
home theater than they did in the cinema. That's about all I think one can
expect. A film soundtrack is certainly NOT going to sound like a great
recording of the NY Philharmonic, and I don't expect it to.

bill


  #18   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
Kalman Rubinson Kalman Rubinson is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 312
Default surround sound 5.1 cables: 6 RCA vs toslink vs HDMI

On 14 Nov 2007 22:59:24 GMT, Sonnova
wrote:

On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 16:12:17 -0800, Kalman Rubinson wrote
(in article ):

On 13 Nov 2007 03:40:50 GMT, Sonnova
wrote:

I have an HD-A2. I use coaxial digital to connect to my Harman-Kardon
AVR-7000. This receiver uses Lexicon surround-sound processing - which is
why
I bit the bullet and paid close to $2000 for it and is excellent. I've
never
tried the 6 analog outputs from the player.


Unfortunately, that arrangement does not permit you to enjoy any of
the new lossless CODECs (Dolby TrueHD, dtsHD-MA) which can be output
only over HDMI (as bitstream or LPCM) or over analog outputs.

Kal


What makes you think that the AVR-7000 does not have 6 discrete audio inputs?


Simply because I misread your statement and responded to the first
mention that you "use coaxial digital to connect to my Harman-Kardon
AVR-7000."

OTOH, the HD-A2 lacks 6 discrete audio outputs, afaik.

Kal
  #19   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
willbill willbill is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 58
Default surround sound 5.1 cables: 6 RCA vs toslink vs HDMI

Sonnova wrote:

On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 15:13:39 -0800, willbill wrote
(in article ):


but going back to your HD-A2, do you find the
surround sound of the HD-DVD movies, that you've
so far gotten, to be noticeably superior to that
of ordinary DVD movies?


Absolutely,


ok

but not for the reasons that I suspect that you think. Most DVDs
are Dolby 5.1 encoded. AFAIK, all HD-DVD releases are DTS.


typo? every HD-DVD movie, that i've looked at
the back of, has shown the audio to be DD

DTS sounds superior to Dolby 5.1.


agreed, with the footnote that that's a comment
on those regular DVD movies that offer both
5.1 formats


to my mind, better surround audio is the one real
trump card that they can play with hi def movies.
but so far they don't seem to have done it;
at least not yet. they certainly have plenty
of great source material in the vaults


Cinema sound does not impress me that much.


i guess it impresses me more than you.

for one thing hi end audio, by itself,
would never have gotten this amazing
surround AVR equipment on the market

and without those AVR units, would we
have mutichannel SACD audio disks?

A film soundtrack is certainly NOT going to sound like a great
recording of the NY Philharmonic, and I don't expect it to.


agreed

bill
  #20   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
Steven Sullivan Steven Sullivan is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,268
Default surround sound 5.1 cables: 6 RCA vs toslink vs HDMI

Sonnova wrote:

Absolutely, but not for the reasons that I suspect that you think. Most DVDs
are Dolby 5.1 encoded. AFAIK, all HD-DVD releases are DTS.


Actually, no. HD-DVD can offer Dolby Digital, DD PLus, DD TrueHD
(lossless), DTS, DTS-HD High Resolution, DTS Master Audio (lossless) and
linear PCM (lossless). AFAIK, of the two new lossless codecs, HD-DVD
discs in stores so far have only offered Dolby TrueHD.

DTS sounds
superior to Dolby 5.1.


Not necessarily.

___
-S
"As human beings, we understand the world through simile, analogy,
metaphor, narrative and, sometimes, claymation." - B. Mason


  #21   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
Sonnova Sonnova is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,337
Default surround sound 5.1 cables: 6 RCA vs toslink vs HDMI

On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 19:26:25 -0800, Kalman Rubinson wrote
(in article ):

On 14 Nov 2007 22:59:24 GMT, Sonnova
wrote:

On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 16:12:17 -0800, Kalman Rubinson wrote
(in article ):

On 13 Nov 2007 03:40:50 GMT, Sonnova
wrote:

I have an HD-A2. I use coaxial digital to connect to my Harman-Kardon
AVR-7000. This receiver uses Lexicon surround-sound processing - which is
why
I bit the bullet and paid close to $2000 for it and is excellent. I've
never
tried the 6 analog outputs from the player.

Unfortunately, that arrangement does not permit you to enjoy any of
the new lossless CODECs (Dolby TrueHD, dtsHD-MA) which can be output
only over HDMI (as bitstream or LPCM) or over analog outputs.

Kal


What makes you think that the AVR-7000 does not have 6 discrete audio
inputs?


Simply because I misread your statement and responded to the first
mention that you "use coaxial digital to connect to my Harman-Kardon
AVR-7000."

OTOH, the HD-A2 lacks 6 discrete audio outputs, afaik.

Kal


Yes I looked, It does lack 6-discrete outputs. No matter.
  #22   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
Kalman Rubinson Kalman Rubinson is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 312
Default surround sound 5.1 cables: 6 RCA vs toslink vs HDMI

On 15 Nov 2007 23:19:17 GMT, Sonnova
wrote:

On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 19:26:25 -0800, Kalman Rubinson wrote
(in article ):

On 14 Nov 2007 22:59:24 GMT, Sonnova
wrote:

On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 16:12:17 -0800, Kalman Rubinson wrote
(in article ):

On 13 Nov 2007 03:40:50 GMT, Sonnova
wrote:

I have an HD-A2. I use coaxial digital to connect to my Harman-Kardon
AVR-7000. This receiver uses Lexicon surround-sound processing - which is
why
I bit the bullet and paid close to $2000 for it and is excellent. I've
never
tried the 6 analog outputs from the player.

Unfortunately, that arrangement does not permit you to enjoy any of
the new lossless CODECs (Dolby TrueHD, dtsHD-MA) which can be output
only over HDMI (as bitstream or LPCM) or over analog outputs.

Kal

What makes you think that the AVR-7000 does not have 6 discrete audio
inputs?


Simply because I misread your statement and responded to the first
mention that you "use coaxial digital to connect to my Harman-Kardon
AVR-7000."

OTOH, the HD-A2 lacks 6 discrete audio outputs, afaik.

Kal


Yes I looked, It does lack 6-discrete outputs. No matter.


Of course, there are many other players that do have them.

Kal

  #23   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
willbill willbill is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 58
Default surround sound 5.1 cables: 6 RCA vs toslink vs HDMI

Steven Sullivan wrote:

Sonnova wrote:


DTS sounds superior to Dolby 5.1.


Not necessarily.


really?

perhaps you could provide one DVD
movie title as an example?

bill
  #24   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
Sonnova Sonnova is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,337
Default surround sound 5.1 cables: 6 RCA vs toslink vs HDMI

On Thu, 15 Nov 2007 19:23:42 -0800, Kalman Rubinson wrote
(in article ):

On 15 Nov 2007 23:19:17 GMT, Sonnova
wrote:

On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 19:26:25 -0800, Kalman Rubinson wrote
(in article ):

On 14 Nov 2007 22:59:24 GMT, Sonnova
wrote:

On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 16:12:17 -0800, Kalman Rubinson wrote
(in article ):

On 13 Nov 2007 03:40:50 GMT, Sonnova
wrote:

I have an HD-A2. I use coaxial digital to connect to my Harman-Kardon
AVR-7000. This receiver uses Lexicon surround-sound processing - which
is
why
I bit the bullet and paid close to $2000 for it and is excellent. I've
never
tried the 6 analog outputs from the player.

Unfortunately, that arrangement does not permit you to enjoy any of
the new lossless CODECs (Dolby TrueHD, dtsHD-MA) which can be output
only over HDMI (as bitstream or LPCM) or over analog outputs.

Kal

What makes you think that the AVR-7000 does not have 6 discrete audio
inputs?

Simply because I misread your statement and responded to the first
mention that you "use coaxial digital to connect to my Harman-Kardon
AVR-7000."

OTOH, the HD-A2 lacks 6 discrete audio outputs, afaik.

Kal


Yes I looked, It does lack 6-discrete outputs. No matter.


Of course, there are many other players that do have them.

Kal


But if they aren't HD-DVD players, what's the point?
  #25   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
Steven Sullivan Steven Sullivan is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,268
Default surround sound 5.1 cables: 6 RCA vs toslink vs HDMI

willbill wrote:
Steven Sullivan wrote:


Sonnova wrote:


DTS sounds superior to Dolby 5.1.


Not necessarily.


really?


perhaps you could provide one DVD
movie title as an example?


How about instead you visit any AV/Home theater forum and see the endless wars about this,
instead of cluttering up this one?

The fact is, to do a proper comparison, you'd have to find a movie where
you know that both DD and DTS tracks were mastered the same (same EQ), and played back
the same (matched levels in all channels) ,so that you are only comparing the encoding. And do
that listening comparison blind.

Get back to me when you'd done that. Until then, you can't necessarily say one sounds better
than the other, based on non-linear measures like bitrate, or non-controlled listening
comparisons.

___
-S
"As human beings, we understand the world through simile, analogy,
metaphor, narrative and, sometimes, claymation." - B. Mason


  #26   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
willbill willbill is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 58
Default surround sound 5.1 cables: 6 RCA vs toslink vs HDMI

Steven Sullivan wrote:

willbill wrote:

Steven Sullivan wrote:



Sonnova wrote:



DTS sounds superior to Dolby 5.1.



Not necessarily.



really?



perhaps you could provide one DVD
movie title as an example?


How about instead you visit any AV/Home theater
forum and see the endless wars about this,
instead of cluttering up this one?


that's pretty rich. you were the one
who stated "Not necessarily."

i thought that this *moderated* forum
was supposed to focus on positive posts

so ok, here's my positive post:

of the maybe 30 or 40 DVD movies that i have
that have both DTS5.1 and DD5.1, the DTS sound
is noticeably better on every one of them

i'm still interested in *one* example
from you, where the DD5.1 is better

... or even as good

bill


The fact is, to do a proper comparison, you'd have to find a movie where
you know that both DD and DTS tracks were mastered the same (same EQ), and played back
the same (matched levels in all channels) ,so that you are only comparing the encoding. And do
that listening comparison blind.

Get back to me when you'd done that. Until then, you can't necessarily say one sounds better
than the other, based on non-linear measures like bitrate, or non-controlled listening
comparisons.

  #27   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
Sonnova Sonnova is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,337
Default surround sound 5.1 cables: 6 RCA vs toslink vs HDMI

On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 16:07:26 -0800, Steven Sullivan wrote
(in article ):

willbill wrote:
Steven Sullivan wrote:


Sonnova wrote:


DTS sounds superior to Dolby 5.1.


Not necessarily.


really?


perhaps you could provide one DVD
movie title as an example?


How about instead you visit any AV/Home theater forum and see the endless
wars about this,
instead of cluttering up this one?


Since there are fewer than a dozen posts to this forum in any given day, I'd
say that we can probably stand a little "cluttering".

The fact is, to do a proper comparison, you'd have to find a movie where
you know that both DD and DTS tracks were mastered the same (same EQ), and
played back
the same (matched levels in all channels) ,so that you are only comparing the


encoding. And do
that listening comparison blind.


That's a tall order!

Get back to me when you'd done that. Until then, you can't necessarily say
one sounds better
than the other, based on non-linear measures like bitrate, or non-controlled
listening
comparisons.


Nobody (AFAICS) has the ability to know that except for the people who
actually produce the DVD and they tend to be so anonymous that nobody (except
an industry insider) would have access to that information.
  #28   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
Steven Sullivan Steven Sullivan is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,268
Default surround sound 5.1 cables: 6 RCA vs toslink vs HDMI

Sonnova wrote:
On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 16:07:26 -0800, Steven Sullivan wrote
(in article ):


willbill wrote:
Steven Sullivan wrote:


Sonnova wrote:


DTS sounds superior to Dolby 5.1.


Not necessarily.


really?


perhaps you could provide one DVD
movie title as an example?


How about instead you visit any AV/Home theater forum and see the endless
wars about this,
instead of cluttering up this one?


Since there are fewer than a dozen posts to this forum in any given day, I'd
say that we can probably stand a little "cluttering".


I disagree. I prefer a high signal/noise over high post number for its own
sake.

The fact it you can visit any number of home theater/AVS forums and see
the PC/mac style 'war' being waged across a period of years...

DTS and DD versions on discs I own both sound good. When they sound
different, I can't know automatically if it's due to the format or to some other
factor in the production and playback...or to my imagination.
And neither can you or willbill.

The fact is, to do a proper comparison, you'd have to find a movie where
you know that both DD and DTS tracks were mastered the same (same EQ), and
played back
the same (matched levels in all channels) ,so that you are only comparing the


encoding. And do
that listening comparison blind.


That's a tall order!


Yes, it is....but it's the only way you're going to get a fair comparison
of the formats.

Get back to me when you'd done that. Until then, you can't necessarily say
one sounds better
than the other, based on non-linear measures like bitrate, or non-controlled
listening
comparisons.


Nobody (AFAICS) has the ability to know that except for the people who
actually produce the DVD and they tend to be so anonymous that nobody (except
an industry insider) would have access to that information.


Indeed. So maybe it's best to ratchet back claims about the audible
superiority of one over the other?

___
-S
"As human beings, we understand the world through simile, analogy,
metaphor, narrative and, sometimes, claymation." - B. Mason
  #29   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
Sonnova Sonnova is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,337
Default surround sound 5.1 cables: 6 RCA vs toslink vs HDMI

On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 19:38:56 -0800, Steven Sullivan wrote
(in article ):

Sonnova wrote:
On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 16:07:26 -0800, Steven Sullivan wrote
(in article ):


willbill wrote:
Steven Sullivan wrote:

Sonnova wrote:

DTS sounds superior to Dolby 5.1.

Not necessarily.

really?

perhaps you could provide one DVD
movie title as an example?

How about instead you visit any AV/Home theater forum and see the endless
wars about this,
instead of cluttering up this one?


Since there are fewer than a dozen posts to this forum in any given day,
I'd
say that we can probably stand a little "cluttering".


I disagree. I prefer a high signal/noise over high post number for its own
sake.

The fact it you can visit any number of home theater/AVS forums and see
the PC/mac style 'war' being waged across a period of years...

DTS and DD versions on discs I own both sound good. When they sound
different, I can't know automatically if it's due to the format or to some
other
factor in the production and playback...or to my imagination.
And neither can you or willbill.

The fact is, to do a proper comparison, you'd have to find a movie where
you know that both DD and DTS tracks were mastered the same (same EQ), and
played back
the same (matched levels in all channels) ,so that you are only comparing
the


encoding. And do
that listening comparison blind.


That's a tall order!


Yes, it is....but it's the only way you're going to get a fair comparison
of the formats.

Get back to me when you'd done that. Until then, you can't necessarily
say
one sounds better
than the other, based on non-linear measures like bitrate, or
non-controlled
listening
comparisons.


Nobody (AFAICS) has the ability to know that except for the people who
actually produce the DVD and they tend to be so anonymous that nobody
(except
an industry insider) would have access to that information.


Indeed. So maybe it's best to ratchet back claims about the audible
superiority of one over the other?


Not at all. Most DTS discs also have Dolby 5.1 tracks on them. Most players
allow one to choose. In every case, *I* have found the DTS to sound superior.
Whether the improvement with DTS inherent in the system or just in the way
its applied, I don't know and have know way of knowing. All I can say is that
DTS sounds better than the same film in Dolby 5.1 and sounds better
consistently.
  #30   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
JimC JimC is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 116
Default surround sound 5.1 cables: 6 RCA vs toslink vs HDMI

willbill wrote:
Sonnova wrote:

On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 15:59:48 -0800, willbill wrote
(in article ):



Sonnova wrote:



I have an HD-A2. I use coaxial digital to connect to my
Harman-Kardon AVR-7000. This receiver uses Lexicon surround-sound
processing - which is is why I bit the bullet and paid close to
$2000 for it and is excellent. I've never tried the 6 analog
outputs from the player.



the Toshiba HD-A2, that you have,
does *not* have 6 analog outputs!

correct me if i'm wrong.



It might not, I've never actually looked.



fwiw, i thought that it did but then went
out to www.toshiba.com and checked and
discovered that of the 6 current models
only the most expensive of each line
has 6 analog outputs!

so i can't justify one for it's ability
to upscale normal DVD movies


The ability to upscale DVDs isn't the only issue.

The HD-A35 does have analog outputs (in addition to HDMI and Toslink),
and it has the capability of processing most of the new high rez audio
formats, including DD PLus, DD TrueHD (lossless), DTS, DTS-HD High
Resolution, and DTS Master Audio (lossless). Although there aren't many
discs with high rez audio at this time, most seem to expect more of them
in the coming year. With the A35 or a comparable player you would have
the ability to send surround audio in analog form to your AVR or pre/pro
via either analog cables, or audio in one of the digital formats via
HDMI or Toslink, as you prefer. - Whichever sounds best to you.

In addition to its upscaling function, it would be relatively future
proof with respect to processing formats that may be used on future
video (or audio) discs (though not including multi-channel SACD). Plus
being able to process HD video on HD DVDs. Although costing more than
the A2, I understand that the A35 is now available for less than $400
online, including several free discs, and close to that at BB or CC. -
I'm not stuck on this particular model, and others with similar
capabilities are expected to be introduced next year, but it seems to be
one that would have the capabilities you want, plus some you don't want
now but may want later.

Jim

Jim


you might consider doing an a/b of inputting
surround audio via coax digital (which you apparently
presently do) vs. toslink optical (also digital)






I doubt if there is any difference. In fact, when TOSLINK first
appeared, many audiophiles found just the opposite to be true. I.E.,
that TOSLINK sounded distinctly inferior to either coax or
glass-fiber, and indeed, some tests showed that the bandwidth of many
early TOSLINK setups was much narrower than that of either coax or
glass-fiber. However, that difference has been long since addressed.
The optical transducers on both ends of modern TOSLINK connections
have been significantly improved.


=============================================== ==

to my mind, better surround audio is the one real
trump card that they can play with hi def movies.
but so far they don't seem to have done it;
at least not yet. they certainly have plenty
of great source material in the vaults

bill



  #31   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
Chung[_2_] Chung[_2_] is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3
Default surround sound 5.1 cables: 6 RCA vs toslink vs HDMI

JimC wrote:

In addition to its upscaling function, it would be relatively future
proof with respect to processing formats that may be used on future
video (or audio) discs (though not including multi-channel SACD). Plus
being able to process HD video on HD DVDs. Although costing more than
the A2, I understand that the A35 is now available for less than $400
online, including several free discs, and close to that at BB or CC. -
I'm not stuck on this particular model, and others with similar
capabilities are expected to be introduced next year, but it seems to be
one that would have the capabilities you want, plus some you don't want
now but may want later.

Jim


To put things into the high-end prospective, that $400 that buys you the
Toshiba A35 won't get you a pair if high-end interconnects.

I have a Toshiba A20 and an A2, and I love their audio and video
quality. Anyone who has a HDTV and does not get a high def. optical
player is simply foolish, IMHO.
  #32   Report Post  
Posted to rec.audio.high-end
willbill willbill is offline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 58
Default surround sound 5.1 cables: 6 RCA vs toslink vs HDMI

JimC wrote:

willbill wrote:


Sonnova wrote:


On Tue, 13 Nov 2007 15:59:48 -0800, willbill wrote


the Toshiba HD-A2, that you have,
does *not* have 6 analog outputs!

correct me if i'm wrong.


It might not, I've never actually looked.


fwiw, i thought that it did but then went
out to www.toshiba.com and checked and
discovered that of the 6 current models
only the most expensive of each line
has 6 analog outputs!

so i can't justify one for it's ability
to upscale normal DVD movies


The ability to upscale DVDs isn't the only issue.


agreed

but it is a factor, perhaps a minor one


The HD-A35 does have analog outputs (in addition to HDMI and Toslink),
and it has the capability of processing most of the new high rez audio
formats, including DD PLus, DD TrueHD (lossless), DTS, DTS-HD High
Resolution, and DTS Master Audio (lossless).


again, agreed

given that almost all (all?) HD-DVD movie disks
come with a minimum of DD Plus (DD+) sound,
(see end of the "Capacity/codecs" subtitle near
the top of:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compari...l_disc_formats
as well as an interesting frequency/bandwidth comparison
(not in wiki, sorry!, but if i find the ref i'll post it)
and "For commercially available discs, as of
September 2007 40% of Blu-ray titles use the 50 GB
disc and 60% use the 25 GB disc[88] while most HD DVD
movies are in the 30 GB dual layer format.[89]" in:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolby_Digital_Plus)
and that the large majority of Blu-ray movie disks
only use standard DD, the open question is:

for those hi-def movies that are offered in both
formats, does the multichannel sound of HD-DVD
movies actually *sound* better than Blu-ray movies?

i've yet to see a comment on this from anyone that
owns both a Blu-ray player and a HD-DVD player

but i have a sneaking suspicion that the
normal HD-DVD movie sounds better than it's
Blu-ray counterpart

Although there aren't many
discs with high rez audio at this time,


agreed

but they are starting to show up

e.g. i hated the sound on my regular
DVD movie of Phantom of the Opera.
since it is offered on HD-DVD with
a Dolby TrueHD soundtrack, it will
be one of the 1st discs i buy

another movie that i'd buy, provided
that it had TrueHD sound (or HD DTS),
is Evita, which i hated in standard
DVD format

(i have no clue if either of them is
worth a nickel, even with hi def sound)

the driver that i see on this, is that
there are already many many more hi def
movie disc players in households
than there are SACD players

which raises the open question:
just exactly how good of a mutichannel
audio/sound format are the so-called
"lossless" Dolby TrueHD and

i mean, there's been a modest amount
of serious sound content (both classical
and rock and jazz) offered in multichannel
SACD format, which in my listening experience
is a rather good sound format

but there aren't that many SACD players out there

so will that shift to formats such as Dolby TrueHD
and DTS-HD Master Audio?

i mean, there are already so many more players out there

most seem to expect more of them
in the coming year. With the A35 or a comparable player you would have
the ability to send surround audio in analog form to your AVR or pre/pro
via either analog cables, or audio in one of the digital formats via
HDMI or Toslink, as you prefer. - Whichever sounds best to you.


it'd be nice to have an AVR with HDMI 1.3

otoh, it was clear to me 9 months ago, when
i bought my current AVR that it was likely too
early be be spending big bux on such a product

...and having just looked at an interesting Onkyo
with 1.3 a couple of days ago (~$1,500) i suspect
that even if i were again buying today, that i'd
still not pay too much attention to HDMI 1.3

anyway, so i went with an inexpensive ($800)
Denon AVR that has 5.1 analog audio input as well
as 4 multichannel TosLink audio inputs.

no regrets

...but it means that if i go for a HD-DVD player, i'll
have to go for the 3rd gen A35 (or the older 2nd gen
XA2, both of which have 5.1 analog sound output)


In addition to its upscaling function,


which a couple of current reviews suggest
is OK (either comparable or close to that
of my current OPPO DV-981HD player)

it would be relatively future
proof with respect to processing formats that may be used on future
video (or audio) discs (though not including multi-channel SACD). Plus
being able to process HD video on HD DVDs. Although costing more than
the A2, I understand that the A35 is now available for less than $400
online,


currently ~ $360

including several free discs,


currently 7+, of which i get to pick 5,
and maybe more (Star Trek offer that
i saw out on www.toshiba.com site,
but didn't look into coz it seemed
to be the early TV series and i have
to think that the sound is dismal
and the 4x3 format nothing to shout
about (unless yer a trekkie )

bill

and close to that at BB or CC. -
I'm not stuck on this particular model, and others with similar
capabilities are expected to be introduced next year, but it seems to be
one that would have the capabilities you want, plus some you don't want
now but may want later.


to my mind, better surround audio is the one real
trump card that they can play with hi def movies.
but so far they don't seem to have done it;
at least not yet. they certainly have plenty
of great source material in the vaults

Reply
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Discount HDMI cables eHDMI Marketplace 0 April 22nd 06 03:59 PM
How to Secure Toslink Cables ? john Tech 3 February 1st 06 01:59 PM
Maximum Length for Toslink and Firewire Cables Cary Pro Audio 8 June 25th 04 04:34 PM
Newbie question about surround sound speaker cables Mike Francis High End Audio 4 May 22nd 04 05:26 AM
TOSLINK cables Colin High End Audio 26 September 28th 03 04:40 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 08:03 PM.

Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 AudioBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.
 

About Us

"It's about Audio and hi-fi"