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#1
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Background music on tv show
Hi,
Here's a question that I have never seen anywhere... With age, we have more and more difficulties to separate the voice from the background music on tv. It's probably in part due to age but also to the new way to record a tv show as the situation is different with an old film. Considering than voice and music have not exactly the same properties, would it be possible to use something like a frequency equalizer to lower music intensity or increase voice. Or any other suggestion would be appreciated. Carpediem |
#2
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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Background music on tv show
On 2008-10-19, carpediem wrote:
Hi, Here's a question that I have never seen anywhere... With age, we have more and more difficulties to separate the voice from the background music on tv. It's probably in part due to age but also to the new way to record a tv show as the situation is different with an old film. Considering than voice and music have not exactly the same properties, would it be possible to use something like a frequency equalizer to lower music intensity or increase voice. Or any other suggestion would be appreciated. Carpediem A lost cause. I think that the "directors/producers" want to show their power by emphasising the "dramatic" moment by drowning out the voice/narrator so that the consumer would not be able hear the voice; easily done in a multimike environment. Consider that the "directors/producers" also want to get more money for the advert by overlaying the video with ads & thereby blocking portions of the show & "degrading the 'artistic' intent" of the original product; usually this is done by blocking the viewing of a point of interest as stated by the narrator or actor. It is quite probable that the "music" will become louder than voice in more situations as digital tv will allow more manipulations..... |
#3
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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Background music on tv show
"just me" wrote in message ... On 2008-10-19, carpediem wrote: Hi, Here's a question that I have never seen anywhere... With age, we have more and more difficulties to separate the voice from the background music on tv. It's probably in part due to age but also to the new way to record a tv show as the situation is different with an old film. Considering than voice and music have not exactly the same properties, would it be possible to use something like a frequency equalizer to lower music intensity or increase voice. Or any other suggestion would be appreciated. Carpediem A lost cause. I think that the "directors/producers" want to show their power by emphasising the "dramatic" moment by drowning out the voice/narrator so that the consumer would not be able hear the voice; easily done in a multimike environment. I don't see why they would want to make the product unusable in this way. If I were their boss, they wouldn't have jobs long if that was their goal. Consider that the "directors/producers" also want to get more money for the advert by overlaying the video with ads & thereby blocking portions of the show & "degrading the 'artistic' intent" of the original product; usually this is done by blocking the viewing of a point of interest as stated by the narrator or actor. If they are idiots, yes. Who benefits from this? It is quite probable that the "music" will become louder than voice in more situations as digital tv will allow more manipulations..... If they are idiots, yes. Who benefits from this? If someone deliberately degrades the product, essentially making parts of it unusable, what is the point? It's a good way to drive away customers, and thus, revenue. |
#4
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Background music on tv show
"Chronic Philharmonic" wrote...
I don't see why they would want to make the product unusable in this way. If I were their boss, they wouldn't have jobs long if that was their goal. "Unusable" to us here in the real world doesn't translate the same to Tinsel-Town. Consider that the "directors/producers" also want to get more money for the advert by overlaying the video with ads & thereby blocking portions of the show & "degrading the 'artistic' intent" of the original product; usually this is done by blocking the viewing of a point of interest as stated by the narrator or actor. If they are idiots, yes. Yes. Who benefits from this? Their egos. Or haen't you worked with many of them? It is quite probable that the "music" will become louder than voice in more situations as digital tv will allow more manipulations..... If they are idiots, yes. Who benefits from this? Objection, you honor. Asked and answered. If someone deliberately degrades the product, essentially making parts of it unusable, what is the point? It's a good way to drive away customers, and thus, revenue. "Degrades" doesn't mean the same thing to them. |
#5
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Background music on tv show
"Richard Crowley" wrote in message . .. "Chronic Philharmonic" wrote... I don't see why they would want to make the product unusable in this way. If I were their boss, they wouldn't have jobs long if that was their goal. "Unusable" to us here in the real world doesn't translate the same to Tinsel-Town. Okay, I'm still having problems with the basic concept here. If they are un-artistic tin-ears, producing unwatchable/unlistenable garbage, then who buys it? Consider that the "directors/producers" also want to get more money for the advert by overlaying the video with ads & thereby blocking portions of the show & "degrading the 'artistic' intent" of the original product; usually this is done by blocking the viewing of a point of interest as stated by the narrator or actor. If they are idiots, yes. Yes. Who benefits from this? Their egos. Or haen't you worked with many of them? I haven't worked with any of them. But it would still seem that plaudits for a quality product -- artistically pleasing -- would stroke their egos more than making everyone's life miserable, just so they can get their way. Especially when "their way" results in unwatchable/unlistenable garbage. Certainly they'd be aware of the effect -- again, who would hire these bozos? It is quite probable that the "music" will become louder than voice in more situations as digital tv will allow more manipulations..... If they are idiots, yes. Who benefits from this? Objection, you honor. Asked and answered. Still puzzled. If someone deliberately degrades the product, essentially making parts of it unusable, what is the point? It's a good way to drive away customers, and thus, revenue. "Degrades" doesn't mean the same thing to them. What do they value, then? "Their ego" doesn't answer the question. They must have some esthetic value in mind that, when questioned, injures their ego. |
#6
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Background music on tv show
On 2008-10-19, Chronic Philharmonic wrote:
"Richard Crowley" wrote in message . .. "Chronic Philharmonic" wrote... I don't see why they would want to make the product unusable in this way. If I were their boss, they wouldn't have jobs long if that was their goal. "Unusable" to us here in the real world doesn't translate the same to Tinsel-Town. Okay, I'm still having problems with the basic concept here. If they are un-artistic tin-ears, producing unwatchable/unlistenable garbage, then who buys it? The consumer isn't doing the "buying" as it is more like viewing on tv; haven't you seen the interesting documentaries on national geographic tc, discovery channel, science channel & the history channels? Consider that the "directors/producers" also want to get more money for the advert by overlaying the video with ads & thereby blocking portions of the show & "degrading the 'artistic' intent" of the original product; usually this is done by blocking the viewing of a point of interest as stated by the narrator or actor. If they are idiots, yes. Yes. Who benefits from this? Their egos. Or haen't you worked with many of them? I haven't worked with any of them. But it would still seem that plaudits for a quality product -- artistically pleasing -- would stroke their egos more than making everyone's life miserable, just so they can get their way. Especially when "their way" results in unwatchable/unlistenable garbage. Certainly they'd be aware of the effect -- again, who would hire these bozos? It is quite probable that the "music" will become louder than voice in more situations as digital tv will allow more manipulations..... If they are idiots, yes. Who benefits from this? Objection, you honor. Asked and answered. Still puzzled. If someone deliberately degrades the product, essentially making parts of it unusable, what is the point? It's a good way to drive away customers, and thus, revenue. "Degrades" doesn't mean the same thing to them. What do they value, then? "Their ego" doesn't answer the question. They must have some esthetic value in mind that, when questioned, injures their ego. Don't think of it as "ego" but a selling point to the sponsors that the sponsors (or potential sponsors/clients) will have lots of ads for their money. Not sure if the hgtv started it with their animated ad for hgtv shows to deliberately distract the viewer from the show, but other shows are doing the same now, including the espn. I've even seen where the on-screen ad covered up what the voice said about following the ball into the hole on the golf channel....what ball????? Not all the ads are transparent & looks to me they are getting bigger. The only show that I haven't seen with the flagrant ads are the Bloomberg & Fox business news; perhaps the ad would cover up the ticker tape & stock quotes.... |
#7
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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Background music on tv show
"Chronic Philharmonic" wrote ...
Okay, I'm still having problems with the basic concept here. If they are un-artistic tin-ears, producing unwatchable/unlistenable garbage, then who buys it? I'm puzzled by your question. Either you don't believe that badly mixed film/video is produced all the time and exhibited in theatres and on TV, or else you believe that the poorly-produced stuff is avoided by the viewers and that shoudl put the tin-ears out of business. Dunno what the world looks like from your perspective, but from what I can hear, there is no shortage of bad mixing. And the consumer sheep flock to whatever is "hot" regardless of whether they can understand the dialog. Perhaps in the future we can rely on CGI and eye-candy and just go back to silent films. |
#8
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Background music on tv show
Considering than voice and music have not exactly the same properties,
would it be possible to use something like a frequency equalizer to lower music intensity or increase voice. Not really because both music and voice have many overlapping frequencies. In fact, a good mix engineer will make voices more audible in the presence of music by boosting midrange a bit on the voice, and cutting a little midrange from the music. This is a common technique that works well with other instruments too. For example, boosting 1 KHz by 2-3 dB on voice while cutting 1 KHz the same amount on the backing music works well for voice. You can do the same around 300-400 Hz with a bass track to make it stand out from the rest of the band. --Ethan |
#9
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Background music on tv show
Ethan Winer ethanw at ethanwiner dot com wrote:
: Considering than voice and music have not exactly the same properties, : would it be possible to use something like a frequency equalizer to lower : music intensity or increase voice. : Not really because both music and voice have many overlapping frequencies. : In fact, a good mix engineer will make voices more audible in the presence : of music by boosting midrange a bit on the voice, and cutting a little : midrange from the music. This is a common technique that works well with : other instruments too. For example, boosting 1 KHz by 2-3 dB on voice while : cutting 1 KHz the same amount on the backing music works well for voice. You : can do the same around 300-400 Hz with a bass track to make it stand out : from the rest of the band. I have a similar problem as the original poster, especially when playing the TV through my stereo system. For DVDs, would adding a center speaker help? Is voice routed to the center channel? -- Andy Barss |
#10
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Background music on tv show
"Andrew Barss" wrote in message ... I have a similar problem as the original poster, especially when playing the TV through my stereo system. For DVDs, would adding a center speaker help? Is voice routed to the center channel? Pretty much. My headphone solution works fine for me, I take the 5.1 output into a small mixer (which is also my headphone amp), and simply balance the channels as *I* prefer, which usually means less effects, and more centre channel. The same method can probably be used on HD-DTV that has 5.1 sound, but any improvement obviously depends on how it's mixed in the first place MrT. |
#11
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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Background music on tv show
Andy,
I have a similar problem as the original poster, especially when playing the TV through my stereo system. For DVDs, would adding a center speaker help? Is voice routed to the center channel? Many DVDs have both stereo and 5.1 surround soundtracks. So you pick whichever is appropriate from the setup menu each time you play a DVD. Generally speaking, having a center channel is a big benefit for dialog clarity, and having a full 5.1 system is better still. --Ethan |
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