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---MIKE--- ---MIKE--- is offline
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Default Volume compressor needed

Most of my SACDs and many of my CDs have too great a volume range. When
the loud parts are at a reasonable level, the soft parts are inaudible.
I live in the sticks so there is almost no background noise. Who makes
a decent compressor?

---MIKE---
In the White Mountains of New Hampshire
(44° 15' N - Elevation 1580')


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Dr Hfuhruhurr Dr Hfuhruhurr is offline
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Default Volume compressor needed

On 18 Jan, 03:53, (---MIKE---) wrote:
Most of my SACDs and many of my CDs have too great a volume range. When
the loud parts are at a reasonable level, the soft parts are inaudible.
I live in the sticks so there is almost no background noise. Who makes
a decent compressor?


Dolby.

Or alternatively buy an amp with a 'nighttime' feature which reduces
dynamic range (Yamaha?)

Doc
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Sonnova Sonnova is offline
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Default Volume compressor needed

On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 19:53:14 -0800, MIKE--- wrote
(in article ):

Most of my SACDs and many of my CDs have too great a volume range. When
the loud parts are at a reasonable level, the soft parts are inaudible.
I live in the sticks so there is almost no background noise. Who makes
a decent compressor?

---MIKE---
In the White Mountains of New Hampshire
(44° 15' N - Elevation 1580')



If you live in the sticks, just turn up the volume so that the softer parts
of the performance sound about as loud as they would in a concert hall at
your favorite seat. The rest will take care of itself. The problem with
compressors is that it's difficult to make one that doesn't "breath" or
"pump" and that's quite unpleasant.

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No Name
 
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Default Volume compressor needed

"---MIKE---" wrote in message
...
Most of my SACDs and many of my CDs have too great a volume range. When
the loud parts are at a reasonable level, the soft parts are inaudible.
I live in the sticks so there is almost no background noise. Who makes
a decent compressor?

---MIKE---
In the White Mountains of New Hampshire
(44° 15' N - Elevation 1580')


You have it backwards. You need compression when the background noise is
high--not low. Low background noise should make it EASIER to hear the soft
parts.

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---MIKE--- ---MIKE--- is offline
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Default Volume compressor needed

Norman wrote:

You have it backwards. You need
compression when the background
noise is high--not low. * Low
background noise should make it
EASIER to hear the soft parts.


You don't understand. If I turn the volume up so I can hear the soft
parts, the loud parts are much too loud. An example is the opening of
the Beethoven 4th symphony with Vanska (SACD). This is happening even
though the background noise IS low. This particular SACD has too much
dynamic range.

---MIKE---
In the White Mountains of New Hampshire
(44° 15' N - Elevation 1580')




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Doug McDonald[_2_] Doug McDonald[_2_] is offline
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Default Volume compressor needed

Sonnova wrote:
The problem with
compressors is that it's difficult to make one that doesn't "breath" or
"pump" and that's quite unpleasant.


Not at all these days. There is no problem to avoid all those
problems, using a computer, if you allow some delay before the
sound appears after you put in the CD or tell it to play the MP3.

You just design the compressor to look ahead and reduce the level
before a loud burst. Basically what you do is old fashioned
gain riding, automated.

Doug McDonald
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Arny Krueger Arny Krueger is offline
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Default Volume compressor needed

"---MIKE---" wrote in message

Most of my SACDs and many of my CDs have too great a
volume range. When the loud parts are at a reasonable
level, the soft parts are inaudible. I live in the sticks
so there is almost no background noise.


If there is almost no background noise, then its not the background noise
that is making the soft parts inaudible. Making the louder parts louder
would be a circumvention for your situation, except that you seem to be
saying that the loud parts would be unreasonably loud if they were any
louder.

Who makes a decent compressor?


A good mid-priced compressor would be the Really Nice Compressor:

http://www.mercenary.com/fmraudio.html

A good low-priced compressor would be the Behringer Composer

http://www.djsupply.com/proddetail.a...hringerMDX2600

Please notice that just about any compressor that you buy today will be
designed for use in an audio production environment, where working signal
levels are far greater than what you might find in a tape monitor loop, but
more like those present at the output of a CD player or the input to a power
amplifier. Failure to keep this in mind can lead to improper operation
and/or excessive noise.

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---MIKE--- ---MIKE--- is offline
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Default Volume compressor needed

Doug McDonald wrote:

There is no problem to avoid all those
problems, using a computer, if you
allow some delay before the sound
appears after you put in the CD or tell
it to play the MP3.


I see that BUT I don't have a computer. I am looking for a stand alone
unit to do the "gain riding". The main reason is that many of the SACDs
and newer CDs have much too great a dynamic range. This would be
alright if the playback was going to be in a large hall. My room is big
(22' X 30') but not THAT big.

---MIKE---
In the White Mountains of New Hampshire
(44° 15' N - Elevation 1580')


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Sonnova Sonnova is offline
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Default Volume compressor needed

On Sat, 19 Jan 2008 08:30:39 -0800, MIKE--- wrote
(in article ):

Norman wrote:

You have it backwards. You need
compression when the background
noise is high--not low. * Low
background noise should make it
EASIER to hear the soft parts.


You don't understand. If I turn the volume up so I can hear the soft
parts, the loud parts are much too loud. An example is the opening of
the Beethoven 4th symphony with Vanska (SACD). This is happening even
though the background noise IS low. This particular SACD has too much
dynamic range.


OK, Mike, what do you do in a concert hall when this occurs? You certainly
can't compress or gain-ride the orchestra in that situation. What I believe
that you need to do is to get a feel for how loud those soft passages
actually are under real concert situations and duplicate that at home. I have
the same situation that you do. If I'm listening to a classical piece on CD
(or SACD for that matter), there are going to be soft passages. Well, they
are supposed to be soft, sometimes almost subliminal. If you set the volume
(assuming a quiet room, of course) properly, the loudest passages shouldn't
be too loud. I certainly don't find it so and I live in a duplex.

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Greg Wormald Greg Wormald is offline
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Default Volume compressor needed

I used to use a dbx-117 compander to expand the dynamic range--but that
was many years ago. I don't know how good the electronics are, given the
state of the art today, but a similar unit should be available
second-hand on ebay or some such fairly cheaply.

I did find that there were problems when I expanded more than 10-15%
although that this was enough for most of the more highly compressed
LP's.

Good luck in finding something.

Greg


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Sonnova Sonnova is offline
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Default Volume compressor needed

On Sat, 19 Jan 2008 20:56:11 -0800, Greg Wormald wrote
(in article ):

I used to use a dbx-117 compander to expand the dynamic range--but that
was many years ago. I don't know how good the electronics are, given the
state of the art today, but a similar unit should be available
second-hand on ebay or some such fairly cheaply.


You could really make the DBX 117 work very well if you increased the size of
the "release" capacitor to extend its time constant. It would compress
quickly on fast transients but release so slowly that you couldn't notice the
change. It stopped the audible pumping pretty much entirely. It's been so
long since I made that modification that I don't remember either the
capacitor, or what the starting value was, or what the value was that I
replaced it with. Of course, it no longer worked properly as a round-trip
noise reduction system once the capacitor value was changed for each channel,
so if that's a consideration for you, better leave it alone.
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---MIKE--- ---MIKE--- is offline
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Default Volume compressor needed

Thank you Arny for your valuable suggestions.

Some of the responders still don't understand what I want. I DON'T want
to expand. Some CDs (and SACDs) have too much dynamic range (Vanska
Beethoven symphonies for example). I have no interest in the music
being as loud as in front of the brass section. To achieve a proper
volume level on the loudest portions, the softest parts are inaudible.
I just want a reasonable balance between soft and loud.

---MIKE---
In the White Mountains of New Hampshire
(44° 15' N - Elevation 1580')


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Sonnova Sonnova is offline
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Default Volume compressor needed

On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 07:55:13 -0800, MIKE--- wrote
(in article ):

Thank you Arny for your valuable suggestions.

Some of the responders still don't understand what I want. I DON'T want
to expand. Some CDs (and SACDs) have too much dynamic range (Vanska
Beethoven symphonies for example). I have no interest in the music
being as loud as in front of the brass section. To achieve a proper
volume level on the loudest portions, the softest parts are inaudible.
I just want a reasonable balance between soft and loud.

---MIKE---
In the White Mountains of New Hampshire
(44° 15' N - Elevation 1580')



I still think that you are playing the soft passages at too high a level. My
point is that if you set the soft passages at their proper level, the loud
passages WON'T be too loud.

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---MIKE--- ---MIKE--- is offline
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Default Volume compressor needed

Sonnova wrote:

I still think that you are playing the soft
passages at too high a level. My point
is that if you set the soft passages at
their proper level, the loud passages
WON'T be too loud.


I'm not going to spar with you any more. What you "think" is not
relevant. You are not here so you can't possibly have any idea what the
problem is. My question was answered by Arny.

---MIKE---
In the White Mountains of New Hampshire
(44° 15' N - Elevation 1580')


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Default Volume compressor needed

"Sonnova" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 07:55:13 -0800, MIKE--- wrote
(in article ):

Thank you Arny for your valuable suggestions.

Some of the responders still don't understand what I want. I DON'T want
to expand. Some CDs (and SACDs) have too much dynamic range (Vanska
Beethoven symphonies for example).


....


I still think that you are playing the soft passages at too high a level.
My
point is that if you set the soft passages at their proper level, the loud
passages WON'T be too loud.


I still think people aren't understanding him. If he does what you suggest,
he can't hear the soft passages (in his particular situation). He wants the
soft passages to be louder and the loud passages softer -- compression, in
other words.


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Greg Wormald Greg Wormald is offline
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Default Volume compressor needed

On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 07:55:13 -0800, MIKE--- wrote
(in article ):

Thank you Arny for your valuable suggestions.

Some of the responders still don't understand what I want. I DON'T want
to expand. Some CDs (and SACDs) have too much dynamic range (Vanska
Beethoven symphonies for example). I have no interest in the music
being as loud as in front of the brass section. To achieve a proper
volume level on the loudest portions, the softest parts are inaudible.
I just want a reasonable balance between soft and loud.

---MIKE---


Mike,

That is why I recommended the compressor-expander (compander) dbx 117.
It is an analog device that fits in a tape loop and will compress (or
expand, depending on the setting) the dynamic range of everything that
you run through it.

I eventually gave up on it because when I upgraded my amp I noticed a
deterioration in the signal even when the device was set on unity. Of
course you may not notice, or care more than you care for the
compression.

Ebay should have have them fairly cheap--there is one in Australia
(where I am), for $A35 with only a day or so to go.

Greg
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Sonnova Sonnova is offline
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Default Volume compressor needed

On Mon, 21 Jan 2008 16:16:40 -0800, Greg Wormald wrote
(in article ):

On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 07:55:13 -0800, MIKE--- wrote
(in article ):

Thank you Arny for your valuable suggestions.

Some of the responders still don't understand what I want. I DON'T want
to expand. Some CDs (and SACDs) have too much dynamic range (Vanska
Beethoven symphonies for example). I have no interest in the music
being as loud as in front of the brass section. To achieve a proper
volume level on the loudest portions, the softest parts are inaudible.
I just want a reasonable balance between soft and loud.

---MIKE---


Mike,

That is why I recommended the compressor-expander (compander) dbx 117.
It is an analog device that fits in a tape loop and will compress (or
expand, depending on the setting) the dynamic range of everything that
you run through it.

I eventually gave up on it because when I upgraded my amp I noticed a
deterioration in the signal even when the device was set on unity. Of
course you may not notice, or care more than you care for the
compression.


Yes, That's why I stopped using the 117. It was definitely colored.
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[email protected] zekor@comcast.net is offline
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Default Volume compressor needed

On Jan 17, 10:53 pm, (---MIKE---) wrote:
Most of my SACDs and many of my CDs have too great avolumerange. When
the loud parts are at a reasonable level, the soft parts are inaudible.
I live in the sticks so there is almost no background noise. Who makes
a decentcompressor?

---MIKE---In the White Mountains of New Hampshire

(44° 15' N - Elevation 1580')


You don't want a compressor. You want an automatic volume control.
Most devices are not really high end. Here is one example using
Google.
http://www.heartlandamerica.com/brow...1&SC=WIG20001&

greg
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BEAR BEAR is offline
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Default Volume compressor needed

---MIKE--- wrote:
Most of my SACDs and many of my CDs have too great a volume range. When
the loud parts are at a reasonable level, the soft parts are inaudible.
I live in the sticks so there is almost no background noise. Who makes
a decent compressor?

---MIKE---
In the White Mountains of New Hampshire
(44° 15' N - Elevation 1580')



Mike,

I live in an area with almost nil background noise.

I have a fair number of very high quality recordings, including Dorian, Chesky,
RR, and others not well known. I use speakers that have exceptionally high
dynamic range and low distortion. I run only CD right now.

I have yet to find a CD that has soft parts that exceed my ability to hear them
clearly, and I tend to listen to loud passages at levels not exceeding 100dB SPL
at my listening position.

So I am puzzled by your problem.

Could you supply me privately, or us on rahe a short list of examples of these
CDs that have this tremendous dynamic range?

I'd like to compare notes, see if I have any of them, and if not *get some*!

Thanks,

_-_-bear (north eastern foothills of the Catskills - ~800ft elev)

PS. it might also be useful to know what your system set up consists of?
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---MIKE--- ---MIKE--- is offline
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Default Volume compressor needed

Thanks for your reply. The SACDs from BIS with the Beethoven symphonies
directed by Vanska are one example. The CD layer has the same range as
the SACD layer. Another example is "Stokowski's Symphonic Baroque"
(Chandos CHAN 9930).

My system is old. Marantz CD67SE, MSB Link D to A converter, Apt-Holman
preamp, Apt-1 power amp, DBX Soundfield one speakers. I have several
sub-woofers. The room is 22' X 30' with an 18" cathedral ceiling. The
listening area is carpeted. When I listen to Vermont Public Radio
(digital classical feed) there is no problem because of their volume
compression (sometimes too much). At my age (78) I don't plan on any
major changes to the system (except maybe a compressor). My heirs are
probably not interested in my system!

---MIKE---
In the White Mountains of New Hampshire
(44° 15' N - Elevation 1580')




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Default Volume compressor needed

---MIKE--- wrote:
Thanks for your reply. The SACDs from BIS with the Beethoven symphonies
directed by Vanska are one example. The CD layer has the same range as
the SACD layer. Another example is "Stokowski's Symphonic Baroque"
(Chandos CHAN 9930).

My system is old. Marantz CD67SE, MSB Link D to A converter, Apt-Holman
preamp, Apt-1 power amp, DBX Soundfield one speakers. I have several
sub-woofers. The room is 22' X 30' with an 18" cathedral ceiling. The
listening area is carpeted. When I listen to Vermont Public Radio
(digital classical feed) there is no problem because of their volume
compression (sometimes too much). At my age (78) I don't plan on any
major changes to the system (except maybe a compressor). My heirs are
probably not interested in my system!

---MIKE---
In the White Mountains of New Hampshire
(44° 15' N - Elevation 1580')



Ok fine.

You'll likely not need very much compression - and then only in the system on
pieces that you know will have too much dynamic range, I suspect.

Enjoy the results, no matter what! :_)

_-_-bear
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