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HE2005: The Great Debate
The recording of the Atkinson vs Arny debate at Home
Entertainment 2005 is now available. Go to: http://www.stereophile.com/news/050905debate/ John Atkinson Editor, Stereophile |
#2
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"John Atkinson" wrote in message ups.com... The recording of the Atkinson vs Arny debate at Home Entertainment 2005 is now available. Go to: http://www.stereophile.com/news/050905debate/ John Atkinson Editor, Stereophile ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
#3
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John Atkinson wrote: The recording of the Atkinson vs Arny debate at Home Entertainment 2005 is now available. Go to: http://www.stereophile.com/news/050905debate/ John Atkinson Editor, Stereophile John, sorry, that debate was a waste of money. The problem with it was it totally lacked structure and in the end lacked direction. You guys spent half the "debate" figuring out what you were arguing about. Then when you found something to argue about one of you would go off in another direction. By the time you guys went down the road of altered states of mind the "debate" had become comepletely derailed. The general complaints Arny was going to argue against Stereophile were no longer in the picture. Next time you do somehting like this I suggest you pick a specific topic and run a traditional debate with two minute points and one minute rebuttals and counter rebuttals. Get panels so participants can be well prepared and to the point. There is a good reason this sort of structure is commonly used. Scott Wheeler |
#4
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"John Atkinson" wrote in message The recording of the Atkinson vs Arny debate at Home Entertainment 2005 is now available. Go to: http://www.stereophile.com/news/050905debate/ John Atkinson Editor, Stereophile The 'secrecy' of your own home? Don't you mean privacy? The former has a pretty negative connotation. |
#6
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John Atkinson wrote:
The recording of the Atkinson vs Arny debate at Home Entertainment 2005 is now available. Go to: http://www.stereophile.com/news/050905debate/ The web page itself is both funny and more than a little factual: "By the end of the hour, if you had been a recent arrival from another planet and had oriented yourself to life in the USA by watching action flicks and video games, you would have been certain that Arnold B. Krueger was God and John Atkinson was a pathetic girly man." Hyperbole, anybody? Bad theology aside, I have to admit that posting this article on the web puts John Atkinson in my "Good Loser" hall of fame for all audio history, and foreseeable future times. I can now why RAO's self-proclaimed subjectivist clique are whining about the debate. Their champion got his clock cleaned, pure and simple. |
#7
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On Mon, 9 May 2005 06:21:31 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
wrote: Due to infrastructure problems that weren't my fault, not even the presentation could be done as intended. So you couldn't project the words you were saying on a screen. Big deal. |
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"8 hz" dave :
So you couldn't project the words you were saying on a screen. Big deal. LOL !!! ....Just to see how *you* are desperate since he doesn't read anymore the words you are trying to project on his screen. :-D |
#9
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In . com, John Atkinson
wrote : The recording of the Atkinson vs Arny debate at Home Entertainment 2005 is now available. Go to: http://www.stereophile.com/news/050905debate/ Does this recording answer to *THE* question ? Nasal or not nasal ? |
#10
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On Mon, 09 May 2005 17:00:46 +0200, Lionel
wrote: "8 hz" dave : So you couldn't project the words you were saying on a screen. Big deal. LOL !!! ...Just to see how *you* are desperate since he doesn't read anymore the words you are trying to project on his screen. :-D This concludes a test of The Emergency Pavlov Response Testing System. If this had been an actual emergency, someone would have been tasked to clean up the mass of exploded French brains. PS, what's depserate is your fixation on me and your monitoring of my posts on RAO. I'm glad to have filled an obvious void in your life, although you should probably look to work and family to fill that void. PPS, I rather doubt that he "doesn't read anymore the words" that I project on his screen. But it's irrelevant anyway. Whether or not he comments is not really an issue. What's funny is the way he uses you to repspond anyway, and that you are content with your current lot in life in this regard (talk about lapdogs! g). I guess it gives you the sense of purpose that fatherhood can't fill. |
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dave weil a écrit :
On Mon, 09 May 2005 17:00:46 +0200, Lionel wrote: "8 hz" dave : So you couldn't project the words you were saying on a screen. Big deal. LOL !!! ...Just to see how *you* are desperate since he doesn't read anymore the words you are trying to project on his screen. :-D This concludes a test of The Emergency Pavlov Response Testing System. If this had been an actual emergency, someone would have been tasked to clean up the mass of exploded French brains. PS, what's depserate is your fixation on me and your monitoring of my posts on RAO. I'm glad to have filled an obvious void in your life, although you should probably look to work and family to fill that void. PPS, I rather doubt that he "doesn't read anymore the words" that I project on his screen. But it's irrelevant anyway. Whether or not he comments is not really an issue. What's funny is the way he uses you to repspond anyway, and that you are content with your current lot in life in this regard (talk about lapdogs! g). I guess it gives you the sense of purpose that fatherhood can't fill. PPPS, ??? |
#12
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Arny Krueger wrote: wrote: John Atkinson wrote: The recording of the Atkinson vs Arny debate at Home Entertainment 2005 is now available. Go to: http://www.stereophile.com/news/050905debate/ John Atkinson Editor, Stereophile John, sorry, that debate was a waste of money. I think it was worth the $140 or so I had to put up to participate in it. Well. I'm glad you feel you that way. I was actually refering to the cost of flying you out there and putting you up. The problem with it was it totally lacked structure and in the end lacked direction. My attempt at giving it structure with a simple concise opening argument was kicked in the teeth by the wandering anecdotal response of my opponent. I found your opening statement neither simple nor concise. You wasted a lot of time on material that was not the least bit relevant to your points. Unfortunately you saved your points to the end of your opening statement then offered no support for them. That's just bad structure. You could have skipped your ramblings on personal philosophies, made your three points about what is wrong with Stereophile and then supported those points with specific evidence. Maybe had you spent time supporting your points Atkinson might have felt compelled to rebut them.You left him with nothing to rebut. That left him the oppurtunity to talk about whatever he wanted to. Part of that is your fault since you are not an experienced public speaker and seem to lack basic debate experience in general. I suspected this would be a big problem for you and it was. I must say your lack of preparedness to support your attacks on Stereophile seemed particularly amatuerish. How can you make "what's wrong with Stereophile" your theme for the debate and fail to bring any actual examples of your points with you in the form of offending Stereophile articles? But it wasn't entirely your fault. You both walked into a debate with no set agenda? If that isn't determined ahead of time debates will wander as this one did. You guys spent half the "debate" figuring out what you were arguing about. Wrong, I spent my half of the debate following the cow's trails that my opponent wandered down. Same thing only with you not accepting partial responsibility for the problem. Then when you found something to argue about one of you would go off in another direction. The audience was a continuous source of distractions and blind alleys, led by Harry Lavo who tried to present a 4 hour discussion of his childish audio philosophies as a question. Regrettably Mr Atkinson was fooled by Lavo. I should have said so in advance but I was specifically speaking of the "debate" that took place before the audience got hold of it. Once a debate is opened to the audience the participants are not the least bit responsible for any wanderings. By the time you guys went down the road of altered states of mind the "debate" had become comepletely derailed. ..and that was fairly early in the debate. yeah. The general complaints Arny was going to argue against Stereophile were no longer in the picture. Atkinson was essentially unable to cogently respond to them. No. You were unable to support them. That lead to a very simple basic exchange. You would make a charge and Atkinson would say if you read the magazine you would see that charge isn't true. That was your achillies heel. If you are going to make charges against Stereophile in your debate you needed to support them with specific examples. His only relevant excuse was that they were too hard for someone at his primitive level of audio subjective testing expertise and experience. "They " what? dbts? Your attack on Stereophile was that they don't do dbts? That was not clear at all. You didn't even bring that up in your opening statement. You just made some very general charges against Stereophile. John brought up dbts in *his* opening statement. You guys rambled a bit about them but you never tied them to a problem with Stereophile. Gosh if you had, John had an easy rebuttal for that since none of the audio journals out there regularly do dbts your attack would be arbitrary unless leveled against all audio publications. Next time you do somehting like this I suggest you pick a specific topic and run a traditional debate with two minute points and one minute rebuttals and counter rebuttals. Hard to do when you allow audience "questions" that are rhetorical declarations that run several minutes all by themselves. That can always be saved for the end as it was this time. Get panels so participants can be well prepared and to the point. There is a good reason this sort of structure is commonly used. Panel discussions are not a guarantee that the participants are prepared. True but it makes it easier. Our debate was preceeded by a sort of a panel discussion, and it was pretty disappointing, as well. IYO. I didn't see that panel discussion so I would reserve my opinion on that. I came to this debate with a prepared presentation, and a short list of relevant points. Due to infrastructure problems that weren't my fault, not even the presentation could be done as intended. I know you don't like to take responsibility for anything but your lack of preparedness was your fault. Fact is John set himself up for a fal and you fell on your sword on the way to the battle field. *You* had the opportunity to make this debate about anything. There is no way to prepare for a debate about anything. You had John over a barrel. Your basic theme was "what i think is wrong with Stereophile" and you brought no evidence via actual excerpts from Stereophile to support your case. This should have been a turkey shoot for you. Things went downhill rapidly from there. My opponent's response was a decade's old anecdote about the bad listening tests that he had been party to in the distant past. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz! And yet you managed to lose most of the points. You got shot by a fish in a barrel. The really sad thing is John's anecdote does raise a lot of interesting questions. None of which were explored. But rain aside, it was a nice weekend in NYC. The best sound I heard that weekend was a one-man band playing in one of the subway stations. Nousaine went to the conference Jazz concert, and reported back to me that it was another snoozer. Of course your biases have nothing to do with your view on the show. The major structural problem of the so-called HE2005 debate was that the alleged moderator was one of the protagonists. Duuuhhhh! No, That wasn't one of the problems at all. Scott Wheeler |
#13
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Arny Krueger wrote: John Atkinson wrote: The recording of the Atkinson vs Arny debate at Home Entertainment 2005 is now available. Go to: http://www.stereophile.com/news/050905debate/ The web page itself is both funny and more than a little factual: "By the end of the hour, if you had been a recent arrival from another planet and had oriented yourself to life in the USA by watching action flicks and video games, you would have been certain that Arnold B. Krueger was God and John Atkinson was a pathetic girly man." Hyperbole, anybody? Bad theology aside, I have to admit that posting this article on the web puts John Atkinson in my "Good Loser" hall of fame for all audio history, and foreseeable future times. I can now why RAO's self-proclaimed subjectivist clique are whining about the debate. Their champion got his clock cleaned, pure and simple. Not even close. Scott Wheeler |
#14
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Lionel wrote:
In . com, John Atkinson wrote : The recording of the Atkinson vs Arny debate at Home Entertainment 2005 is now available. Go to: http://www.stereophile.com/news/050905debate/ Does this recording answer to *THE* question ? Nasal or not nasal ? I was wondering just where that "squeaky", "whiny", "high-pitched", etc., voice of Arny's all the "Normals" claimed to have heard on "The Tape" went. Among the possibilities: a)"The Tape" never existed at all b)The "Normals" lied about the sound of Arny's voice on "The Tape" c)The psychotic posting as "the Devil" altered Arny's voice on "The Tape" d)"The Tape" existed but was a complete fabrication by "the Davil" that had absolutely no basis in reality, but was merely "the Devil" playing both parts and, perhaps, using a digital pitch change device to alter the "Arny" parts I'm going with "d". ;-) |
#15
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wrote:
Arny Krueger wrote: wrote: John Atkinson wrote: The recording of the Atkinson vs Arny debate at Home Entertainment 2005 is now available. Go to: http://www.stereophile.com/news/050905debate/ John Atkinson Editor, Stereophile John, sorry, that debate was a waste of money. I think it was worth the $140 or so I had to put up to participate in it. Well. I'm glad you feel you that way. I was actually refering to the cost of flying you out there and putting you up. Since you never made a corresponding offer Scott, you never got the pleasure of my company! ;-) The problem with it was it totally lacked structure and in the end lacked direction. My attempt at giving it structure with a simple concise opening argument was kicked in the teeth by the wandering anecdotal response of my opponent. I found your opening statement neither simple nor concise. Sorry that is was over your head, Scotty. Next time I'll try to work at your level, which is something like cosmetologist, right? You wasted a lot of time on material that was not the least bit relevant to your points. It was sufficient to make Atkinson look like a deer that was caught in my headlights. Unfortunately you saved your points to the end of your opening statement then offered no support for them. Hopefully that support would have come out in the debate. I think it did, but again they may have gone over your head, Scotty. Cosmetology courses are generally given at the 6th-grade reading level, right? That's just bad structure. No, its good debating style. You provide a concise list of points for debate and let your opponent stumble around them as they can. Worked for everybody, even the two golden-ears who published articles about it. You could have skipped your ramblings on personal philosophies, made your three points about what is wrong with Stereophile and then supported those points with specific evidence. Those weren't my personal philosophies Scott, but formal definitions of objectivity and subjectivity. Thanks for showing that cosemtology classes aren't exactly heavy with a discusison of philosophy, Scotty. Maybe had you spent time supporting your points Atkinson might have felt compelled to rebut them. Anybody with a brain who has read Stereophile would know what I'm talking about, Scotty. Many who were there seemed to get my points right away. You left him with nothing to rebut. He managed to blather on quite extensively, as did several from the audience. Don't get me wrong, some relevant points were raised as well. That left him the oppurtunity to talk about whatever he wanted to. If Atkinson had prepared for the debate then his opening points would have been the same no matter what I said. Part of that is your fault since you are not an experienced public speaker and seem to lack basic debate experience in general. I've bought a new car or two with money earned essentially doing public speaking Scotty. BTW, public speaking is not the same as what you do- gossip around the chair in that cosemtology shop you work in. I suspected this would be a big problem for you and it was. I must say your lack of preparedness to support your attacks on Stereophile seemed particularly amatuerish. That's why even the Sterophile writer, who seems to be a well-known whistler http://www.planeteria.net/home/whistler/ granted me vicrtory, before any number of Harry-Lavo-like unrebuttable comments about his philosophies about love, life and you guessed it, soy sauce. What is it about you radical subjectivists and soy sauce? ;-) snip remaining childish prattle |
#16
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In article ,
Lionel wrote: In . com, John Atkinson wrote : The recording of the Atkinson vs Arny debate at Home Entertainment 2005 is now available. Go to: http://www.stereophile.com/news/050905debate/ Does this recording answer to *THE* question ? Nasal or not nasal ? Same voice, not as nasal because it wasn't recorded over a telephone. Stephen |
#17
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On Mon, 09 May 2005 17:30:35 +0200, Lionel
wrote: dave weil a écrit : On Mon, 09 May 2005 17:00:46 +0200, Lionel wrote: "8 hz" dave : So you couldn't project the words you were saying on a screen. Big deal. LOL !!! ...Just to see how *you* are desperate since he doesn't read anymore the words you are trying to project on his screen. :-D This concludes a test of The Emergency Pavlov Response Testing System. If this had been an actual emergency, someone would have been tasked to clean up the mass of exploded French brains. PS, what's depserate is your fixation on me and your monitoring of my posts on RAO. I'm glad to have filled an obvious void in your life, although you should probably look to work and family to fill that void. PPS, I rather doubt that he "doesn't read anymore the words" that I project on his screen. But it's irrelevant anyway. Whether or not he comments is not really an issue. What's funny is the way he uses you to repspond anyway, and that you are content with your current lot in life in this regard (talk about lapdogs! g). I guess it gives you the sense of purpose that fatherhood can't fill. PPPS, ??? Thanks for dangling like a marionette. |
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MINe 109 wrote:
In article , Lionel wrote: In . com, John Atkinson wrote : The recording of the Atkinson vs Arny debate at Home Entertainment 2005 is now available. Go to: http://www.stereophile.com/news/050905debate/ Does this recording answer to *THE* question ? Nasal or not nasal ? Same voice, not as nasal because it wasn't recorded over a telephone. Note that no recording is generally available for reference. So,Stephen can say anything that he wants to. As a co-conspirator, he's hardly a reliable source of information. |
#19
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Arny Krueger wrote: wrote: Arny Krueger wrote: wrote: John Atkinson wrote: The recording of the Atkinson vs Arny debate at Home Entertainment 2005 is now available. Go to: http://www.stereophile.com/news/050905debate/ John Atkinson Editor, Stereophile John, sorry, that debate was a waste of money. I think it was worth the $140 or so I had to put up to participate in it. Well. I'm glad you feel you that way. I was actually refering to the cost of flying you out there and putting you up. Since you never made a corresponding offer Scott, you never got the pleasure of my company! ;-) When I am provided with air travel and lodging I come prepared. No one has ever wasted their money flying me anywhere. The problem with it was it totally lacked structure and in the end lacked direction. My attempt at giving it structure with a simple concise opening argument was kicked in the teeth by the wandering anecdotal response of my opponent. I found your opening statement neither simple nor concise. Sorry that is was over your head, Scotty. Next time I'll try to work at your level, which is something like cosmetologist, right? Wrong, as usual. :::yawn::: You wasted a lot of time on material that was not the least bit relevant to your points. It was sufficient to make Atkinson look like a deer that was caught in my headlights. The only one with a dumb look on their face was you Arny. John looked quite comfortable in every picture I've seen. Unfortunately you saved your points to the end of your opening statement then offered no support for them. Hopefully that support would have come out in the debate. Hopefully? LOL it's up to you to support your claims dude. You failed and yet you are now proclaiming to have cleaned John's clock. Did you mean this literally? Did he provide you with some house hold chores before the debate including one clock cleaning? You pretty much just floundered in the debate. I think it did, but again they may have gone over your head, Scotty. Nope, it just didn't happen. You cited no examples of that which you claimed was wrong with Stereophile. That is a lack of evidence and a lack of preparedness on your part no matter how much posturing you do now with claims that things went over my head. You flopped. Deal with it. Cosmetology courses are generally given at the 6th-grade reading level, right? Gosh I don't know Arny. Never took one. But OTOH we can ask this question of the engineering classes taught at your Alma mader. That's just bad structure. No, its good debating style. You had no style other than chasing your own tail. The debate in general lacked stucture. I guess your third rate education never provided you with the tools to understand the differences between style and structure. Oh well. You provide a concise list of points for debate and let your opponent stumble around them as they can. If you want to walk away a loser sure. You make charges and fail to support them and your opponent is free to deny the charges. That's what happened and that's why you scored no points on *your* choice of subject matter. Pathetic really. Worked for everybody, even the two golden-ears who published articles about it. Yeah right. Dude, not even your friends on RAHE have called your performance a victory. What does that tell you? You could have skipped your ramblings on personal philosophies, made your three points about what is wrong with Stereophile and then supported those points with specific evidence. Those weren't my personal philosophies Scott, but formal definitions of objectivity and subjectivity. Thanks for showing that cosemtology classes aren't exactly heavy with a discusison of philosophy, Scotty. Well my point did go right over your head. Of course this is typical of you Arny. You are a sore loser who resorts to personal attacks when faced with your own failings. Business as usual. Maybe in your next post you can start making unsavery false accusations against me and start pointing out any typos or spelling errors. That will make your failure to deliver magically disappear. Maybe had you spent time supporting your points Atkinson might have felt compelled to rebut them. Anybody with a brain who has read Stereophile would know what I'm talking about, Scotty. Riiight. IOW you expected the audience to already agree with you. There's a winning formula for persuasion. You are just making excuses Arny. You weren't prepared to support your points and that is a failure in debate tactics at the most basic level. You blew it and you allowed John to dictate the debate and in effect score far more points. You came to a turkey shoot and walked away with lead in your ass. Many who were there seemed to get my points right away. Riiiiiight. Nousaine and whop else? What a joke. You left him with nothing to rebut. He managed to blather on quite extensively, as did several from the audience. No, he managed to take the debate in any direction he chose since you gave him nothing to defend. Don't get me wrong, some relevant points were raised as well. That left him the oppurtunity to talk about whatever he wanted to. If Atkinson had prepared for the debate then his opening points would have been the same no matter what I said. There is no way to prepare for an open debate like this unless you dropped the ball. You did and that allowed Atkinson to do what he did. If you had made your three points from the outset and then provided specific examples from the pages of Stereophile that supported your charges he wouldn't have been able to tell some story about his experience with dbts. The debate would have been about your points and you would have been armed with evidence that John would have no way of preparing for. You blew it. You can't even shoot a fish in a barrel. Part of that is your fault since you are not an experienced public speaker and seem to lack basic debate experience in general. I've bought a new car or two with money earned essentially doing public speaking Scotty. Oh, that's sad. You mean you can't use lack of experience as an excuse for your poor performance. WOW. You just suck at it anyways. BTW, public speaking is not the same as what you do No it isn't. Gosh, if I didn't do well I'd have an excuse. - gossip around the chair in that cosemtology shop you work in. Ah, making things up about me again. This won't cover your miserable failure in this debate Arny. You can make things up about me all you want, you still blew any easy victory that any smart person would have easily seized. I suspected this would be a big problem for you and it was. I must say your lack of preparedness to support your attacks on Stereophile seemed particularly amatuerish. That's why even the Sterophile writer, who seems to be a well-known whistler http://www.planeteria.net/home/whistler/ granted me vicrtory, before any number of Harry-Lavo-like unrebuttable comments about his philosophies about love, life and you guessed it, soy sauce. What is it about you radical subjectivists and soy sauce? ;-) I heard the debate Arny. You blew it. snip remaining childish prattle Self serving editing noted. I can see why you never excelled at anything Arny. You couldn't even prepare for the debate you've been waiting for all these years. scott Wheeler |
#20
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dave weil a écrit :
On Mon, 09 May 2005 17:30:35 +0200, Lionel wrote: dave weil a écrit : On Mon, 09 May 2005 17:00:46 +0200, Lionel wrote: "8 hz" dave : So you couldn't project the words you were saying on a screen. Big deal. LOL !!! ...Just to see how *you* are desperate since he doesn't read anymore the words you are trying to project on his screen. :-D This concludes a test of The Emergency Pavlov Response Testing System. If this had been an actual emergency, someone would have been tasked to clean up the mass of exploded French brains. PS, what's depserate is your fixation on me and your monitoring of my posts on RAO. I'm glad to have filled an obvious void in your life, although you should probably look to work and family to fill that void. PPS, I rather doubt that he "doesn't read anymore the words" that I project on his screen. But it's irrelevant anyway. Whether or not he comments is not really an issue. What's funny is the way he uses you to repspond anyway, and that you are content with your current lot in life in this regard (talk about lapdogs! g). I guess it gives you the sense of purpose that fatherhood can't fill. PPPS, ??? Thanks for dangling like a marionette. ;-) |
#21
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MINe 109 a écrit :
In article , Lionel wrote: In . com, John Atkinson wrote : The recording of the Atkinson vs Arny debate at Home Entertainment 2005 is now available. Go to: http://www.stereophile.com/news/050905debate/ Does this recording answer to *THE* question ? Nasal or not nasal ? Same voice, not as nasal because it wasn't recorded over a telephone. Good, "The Great Debate" has answered a question. |
#22
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"Arny Krueger" wrote in message ... I've bought a new car or two with money earned essentially doing public speaking Scotty. BTW, public speaking is not the same as what you do- gossip around the chair in that cosemtology shop you work in. I don't believe you. And I tell you why. For example, being such a public speaking expert you decided to go with the proven :-) Stockdale strategy: Who am I? Why am I here? Well done, Mr. Expert. Arny, when are you going to learn that your line of bragging and boasting will *never* get you anywhere. Compliments/accomplishments only count if they are aired by people who know you and have worked with you (dung beetles don't count). Not too many of those have ever come forth as far as I can tell (again, dung beetles don't count). How come, Arny? I'm really trying to be neutral about you and give you a change to prove yourself to be something else besides a hateful and bitter gasbag but you keep constantly letting me down. At your advanced age your motto still seems to be "it wasn't my fault, it was all the other guys". That *IS* embarrassing, Arny. Shape up! Cheers, Margaret |
#23
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Margaret von B. wrote: "Arny Krueger" wrote in message ... I've bought a new car or two with money earned essentially doing public speaking Scotty. BTW, public speaking is not the same as what you do- gossip around the chair in that cosemtology shop you work in. I don't believe you. And I tell you why. For example, being such a public speaking expert you decided to go with the proven :-) Stockdale strategy: Who am I? Why am I here? Well done, Mr. Expert. Arny, when are you going to learn that your line of bragging and boasting will *never* get you anywhere. Compliments/accomplishments only count if they are aired by people who know you and have worked with you (dung beetles don't count). Not too many of those have ever come forth as far as I can tell (again, dung beetles don't count). How come, Arny? I'm really trying to be neutral about you and give you a change to prove yourself to be something else besides a hateful and bitter gasbag but you keep constantly letting me down. At your advanced age your motto still seems to be "it wasn't my fault, it was all the other guys". That *IS* embarrassing, Arny. Shape up! Cheers, Margaret Life advice from RAO's cyber-transvestite! ;-) |
#24
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Arny Krueger wrote: MINe 109 wrote: Same voice, not as nasal because it wasn't recorded over a telephone. Note that no recording is generally available for reference. It's obviously the same voice. As you are making an issue of this, Mr. Krueger, I'd be happy to email people an extract of the "Devil" recording so that they can compare it with the recording of the Debate. It helps to get everything out in the open, don't you agree. John Atkinson Editor, Stereophile |
#25
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wrote: Margaret von B. wrote: "Arny Krueger" wrote in message ... I've bought a new car or two with money earned essentially doing public speaking Scotty. BTW, public speaking is not the same as what you do- gossip around the chair in that cosemtology shop you work in. I don't believe you. And I tell you why. For example, being such a public speaking expert you decided to go with the proven :-) Stockdale strategy: Who am I? Why am I here? Well done, Mr. Expert. Arny, when are you going to learn that your line of bragging and boasting will *never* get you anywhere. Compliments/accomplishments only count if they are aired by people who know you and have worked with you (dung beetles don't count). Not too many of those have ever come forth as far as I can tell (again, dung beetles don't count). How come, Arny? I'm really trying to be neutral about you and give you a change to prove yourself to be something else besides a hateful and bitter gasbag but you keep constantly letting me down. At your advanced age your motto still seems to be "it wasn't my fault, it was all the other guys". That *IS* embarrassing, Arny. Shape up! Cheers, Margaret Life advice from RAO's cyber-transvestite! ;-) Perhaps we can get some pearls of wisdom on life from the guy that can't manage to make it on his own and move out form his mom and dad's home. Scott Wheeler |
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"John Atkinson" said:
It's obviously the same voice. As you are making an issue of this, Mr. Krueger, I'd be happy to email people an extract of the "Devil" recording so that they can compare it with the recording of the Debate. Just a note: the person known as "The Devil" objected to distribution of said recording by third parties, and has never given anyone permission to do so. -- "Audio as a serious hobby is going down the tubes." - Howard Ferstler, 25/4/2005 |
#27
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Schizoid Man wrote: The 'secrecy' of your own home? Don't you mean privacy? I was originally going to say "privacy," but "secrecy" conveyed more of the furtive nature of the believers in "scientism," I thought. :-) The former has a pretty negative connotation. Yes it does. What's your point? My point is that tests performed in private with no-one observing are meaningless for anything other than personal gratification. And as Jason Serinus wrote, Arny's PC-ABX tests of amplifiers are meaningless, due to the presence of interfering variables. This was something Paul Bamborough demonstrated a couple of years ago on r.a.o. without any substantive response from Mr. Krueger. John Atkinson Editor, Stereophile |
#28
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#29
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On 9 May 2005 13:07:03 -0700, "John Atkinson"
wrote: Arny Krueger wrote: MINe 109 wrote: Same voice, not as nasal because it wasn't recorded over a telephone. Note that no recording is generally available for reference. It's obviously the same voice. As you are making an issue of this, Mr. Krueger, I'd be happy to email people an extract of the "Devil" recording so that they can compare it with the recording of the Debate. Ummmm, I don't think that the Horned One really wants that. In fact, I think that Beeb wants that recording to disappear, as it wasn't his intention for it to get into general circulation. I think you've been the victim of a similar situation, so I'm sure you sympathize with Mr. S. It helps to get everything out in the open, don't you agree. I think that The Prince of Darkness would disagree. |
#30
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In .com, John Atkinson
wrote : Arny Krueger wrote: MINe 109 wrote: Same voice, not as nasal because it wasn't recorded over a telephone. Note that no recording is generally available for reference. It's obviously the same voice. As you are making an issue of this, Mr. Krueger, I'd be happy to email people an extract of the "Devil" recording so that they can compare it with the recording of the Debate. Is it legal ? |
#31
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Sander deWaal wrote: "John Atkinson" said: As you are making an issue of this, Mr. Krueger, I'd be happy to email people an extract of the "Devil" recording so that they can compare it with the recording of the Debate. Just a note: the person known as "The Devil" objected to distribution of said recording by third parties, and has never given anyone permission to do so. Of course, but as the one featured on the recording, Arny Krueger can give permission if he wishes. If he withholds that permission, then of course I would honor the Devil's request. But if Mr. Krueger does withhold permission, then people will wonder what he has to hide. And I really don't believe it is appropriate for Mr. Krueger to make public reference to the recording while not allowing anyone to hear it for themselves. Remember poor Howard Ferstler, blustering away about what a hatchet job my copy editor did on his Audiophile Voice essay while at the same time refusing to let anyone see it for themselves. The usual moral cowardice, in my opinion. John Atkinson Editor, Stereophile |
#32
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John "unctuous" Atkinson wrote: snipped Remember poor Howard Ferstler, blustering away about what a hatchet job my copy editor did on his Audiophile Voice essay while at the same time refusing to let anyone see it for themselves. You smarmy, sleazy little prick. You wanted that edited copy made public, but lacked the balls to makr it so. Indtead, you arranged for it to be "leaked" and cried a few crocodile tears after the fact. The usual moral cowardice, in my opinion. Yes, from high-end audio's number one sleaze ball: John Atkinson Editor, Stereophile --------------------------------------------------------------------- "You can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are the people we're after."- excerpted from the $tereopile mission statement |
#33
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In .com, John Atkinson
wrote : The usual moral cowardice, in my opinion. Is he speaking about George M. Middius ? Margaret Von Trou'd'balles ? |
#34
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wrote: wrote: Margaret von B. wrote: "Arny Krueger" wrote in message ... I've bought a new car or two with money earned essentially doing public speaking Scotty. BTW, public speaking is not the same as what you do- gossip around the chair in that cosemtology shop you work in. I don't believe you. And I tell you why. For example, being such a public speaking expert you decided to go with the proven :-) Stockdale strategy: Who am I? Why am I here? Well done, Mr. Expert. Arny, when are you going to learn that your line of bragging and boasting will *never* get you anywhere. Compliments/accomplishments only count if they are aired by people who know you and have worked with you (dung beetles don't count). Not too many of those have ever come forth as far as I can tell (again, dung beetles don't count). How come, Arny? I'm really trying to be neutral about you and give you a change to prove yourself to be something else besides a hateful and bitter gasbag but you keep constantly letting me down. At your advanced age your motto still seems to be "it wasn't my fault, it was all the other guys". That *IS* embarrassing, Arny. Shape up! Cheers, Margaret Life advice from RAO's cyber-transvestite! ;-) Perhaps we can get some pearls of wisdom on life from the guy that can't manage to make it on his own and move out form his mom and dad's home. And now, gibberish from RAO's litiguous asshole. :-( |
#35
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Lionel wrote: In .com, wrote : Margaret von B. wrote: "Arny Krueger" wrote in message ... I've bought a new car or two with money earned essentially doing public speaking Scotty. BTW, public speaking is not the same as what you do- gossip around the chair in that cosemtology shop you work in. I don't believe you. And I tell you why. For example, being such a public speaking expert you decided to go with the proven :-) Stockdale strategy: Who am I? Why am I here? Well done, Mr. Expert. Arny, when are you going to learn that your line of bragging and boasting will *never* get you anywhere. Compliments/accomplishments only count if they are aired by people who know you and have worked with you (dung beetles don't count). Not too many of those have ever come forth as far as I can tell (again, dung beetles don't count). How come, Arny? I'm really trying to be neutral about you and give you a change to prove yourself to be something else besides a hateful and bitter gasbag but you keep constantly letting me down. At your advanced age your motto still seems to be "it wasn't my fault, it was all the other guys". That *IS* embarrassing, Arny. Shape up! Cheers, Margaret Life advice from RAO's cyber-transvestite! ;-) "She" hasn't had the courage to speak to Arnold directly when "she" was in NY and now she's giving lesson of humanity... Her hypocrisy hasn't any limits. :-D "Maggie" wasn't properly (cross)dressed at HE2005, so an introduction to Arny would have been awkward, at best. ;-) |
#36
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In .com, John Atkinson
wrote : Sander deWaal wrote: "John Atkinson" said: As you are making an issue of this, Mr. Krueger, I'd be happy to email people an extract of the "Devil" recording so that they can compare it with the recording of the Debate. Just a note: the person known as "The Devil" objected to distribution of said recording by third parties, and has never given anyone permission to do so. Of course, but as the one featured on the recording, Arny Krueger can give permission if he wishes. If he withholds that permission, then of course I would honor the Devil's request. But if Mr. Krueger does withhold permission, then people will wonder what he has to hide. And I really don't believe it is appropriate for Mr. Krueger to make public reference to the recording while not allowing anyone to hear it for themselves. Remember poor Howard Ferstler, blustering away about what a hatchet job my copy editor did on his Audiophile Voice essay while at the same time refusing to let anyone see it for themselves. The usual moral cowardice, in my opinion. Note that if you still have the recording despite Devil's request to destroy it this means that you haven't had any respect for the Devil's wish. Between you and me you are more and more looking like a guy with a revenge agenda. |
#37
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wrote:
Margaret von B. wrote: I don't believe you. And I tell you why. For example, being such a public speaking expert you decided to go with the proven :-) Stockdale strategy: Who am I? Why am I here? Well done, Mr. Expert. What's your point? If I followed an outline that is so well proven that it is well-known, how does that make me an incompetent speaker? Arny, when are you going to learn that your line of bragging and boasting will *never* get you anywhere. It got me a free trip to NYC, and award of Atkinson's figurative tail and horns by one of his employer's own writers. Compliments/accomplishments only count if they are aired by people who know you and have worked with you (dung beetles don't count). What's unclear about: http://www.stereophile.com/news/050905debate/ "By the end of the hour, if you had been a recent arrival from another planet and had oriented yourself to life in the USA by watching action flicks and video games, you would have been certain that Arnold B. Krueger was God and John Atkinson was a pathetic girly man." Not too many of those have ever come forth as far as I can tell (again, dung beetles don't count). Thanks for calling the Stereophile web site author a dung beatle. This only discredits you, Maggie. How come, Arny? Because you don't seem to know what you are talking about, Maggie. I'm really trying to be neutral about you and give you a change to prove yourself to be something else besides a hateful and bitter gasbag but you keep constantly letting me down. Let you down how, Maggie? By gaining favorable mention on Stereophile's own web site? At your advanced age your motto still seems to be "it wasn't my fault, it was all the other guys". That *IS* embarrassing, Arny. Yup, its my fault that Primedia can't follow through on their promise of a computer and a video projector - especially ironic in the midst of one of the largest nationwide if not international A/V exibitions around. Shape up! Exactly what would shaping up be like Maggie? Would it somehow be better if the Stereophile article read: "By the end of the hour, if you had been a recent arrival from another planet and had oriented yourself to life in the USA by watching action flicks and video games, you would have been certain that John Atkinson was God and Arnold B. Krueger was a pathetic girly man." LOL! |
#38
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In article . com,
says... The recording of the Atkinson vs Arny debate at Home Entertainment 2005 is now available. Go to: http://www.stereophile.com/news/050905debate/ John Atkinson Editor, Stereophile John, thank you for hosting the debate and posting the audio recording. Contrary to what Arny has said, I don't think either you or he 'won' or 'lost'. Both of you made your points clearly. It was easy to understand how your views differ. My views on the announced topic of the debate have been posted to my web page for years and are generally in line with Arny's. Those views aren't modified in any way by what I've heard nor by Arny's behavior in this newsgroup. John, again, your story about what you did with your amps in your 20's was interesting, but your decision making wasn't based on any scientific method, but on your opinion/feelings. And yes, there _may_ have been problems with the test you did that originally led you to purchase the SS amp. Arny did point out that methods have improved and there are practical methods for doing the tests. Not that there's anything wrong with the straight listening you did for your amp decision, if that's what you want to do and it makes you happy. I choose to rely on more scientific methods to decern _real_ differences in equipment. And, as I say on my web page, often those differences aren't important, even if they exist. whosbest54 -- The flamewars are over...if you want it. Unofficial rec.audio.opinion Usenet Group Brief User Guide: http://members.aol.com/whosbest54/ Unofficial rec.music.beatles Usenet Group Brief User Guide: http://members.aol.com/whosbest54/rmb.html |
#39
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On Mon, 9 May 2005 16:58:14 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
wrote: It got me a free trip to NYC Actually, it cost you over $100, by your own admission. |
#40
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John Atkinson wrote:
Arny Krueger wrote: MINe 109 wrote: Same voice, not as nasal because it wasn't recorded over a telephone. Note that no recording is generally available for reference. It's obviously the same voice. As you are making an issue of this, Mr. Krueger, I'd be happy to email people an extract of the "Devil" recording so that they can compare it with the recording of the Debate. Since this extract has only been available since the debate recording came into existence, it is highly suspect to say the least. It helps to get everything out in the open, don't you agree. Looks like a Red Herring to me. Speaks to the kind of weak proof you seem to want people to accept, John. |
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