Stewart Pinkerton wrote:
On 18 Mar 2005 16:23:48 -0800, wrote:

(1) Yeah, I know you want me to spell champagne with a capital. I
don't
think so but thanks for your thoughts all the same. I'm not a
fashion
victim, and I have a lifelong record of resistance to hypocritical,
self-serving French political correctness. I laboured in that
vineyard
before President Bush (a great man) even discovered where France is
on
the map. Can't blame him. A few elections from now it will not be
necessary for an American president to know where France is.

How fascinating that you hate French political correctness, but
admire
the ultra-PC fundamentalist neo-Nazi Bush.

Huh? Too much blood must have run into your brain while you clasped
your ankles for so long, Pinko.

I don't hate the French. I find their pretensions amusing. I like
French wine and food and cars (my third loyalty next to Porsche and big
American V8s in European chasses is to Citroen whose SM was one of the
cars I kept longest).

the ultra-PC fundamentalist neo-Nazi Bush.

I don't recognize your description of the leader of the free world. As
I have pointed out before, and as we just revisited when you were
stupid enough to accuse me of having been an apartheid secret policemen
in BOSS, there are kibbitzers and there are doers. You are a rather
useless kibbitzer. President Bush is a doer. He puts himself forward
for election in the greatest democracy on earth, you brag on the
internet that you are the biggest junk mail merchant in England, a tree
killer. Why should we believe your opinion is worth ****?

I can see you're trying to be a polemecist. It's too late; you're too
old to learn. But, if you insist on your right to make a fool of
yourself, I'd suggest you try hurling yourself against the ankles of
someone smaller than me until you discover the extent of your skill,
which presently is nonexistent.

Andre jute

wrote in message
oups.com...

Stewart Pinkerton wrote:
On 18 Mar 2005 16:23:48 -0800, wrote:

(1) Yeah, I know you want me to spell champagne with a capital. I
don't
think so but thanks for your thoughts all the same. I'm not a
fashion
victim, and I have a lifelong record of resistance to hypocritical,
self-serving French political correctness. I laboured in that
vineyard
before President Bush (a great man) even discovered where France is
on
the map. Can't blame him. A few elections from now it will not be
necessary for an American president to know where France is.

How fascinating that you hate French political correctness, but
admire
the ultra-PC fundamentalist neo-Nazi Bush.

Huh? Too much blood must have run into your brain while you clasped
your ankles for so long, Pinko.

I don't hate the French. I find their pretensions amusing. I like
French wine and food and cars (my third loyalty next to Porsche and big
American V8s in European chasses is to Citroen whose SM was one of the
cars I kept longest).

the ultra-PC fundamentalist neo-Nazi Bush.

I don't recognize your description of the leader of the free world.

**Leader of the free world? Given that a miniscule proportion of that free
world, actually voted for him, that would suggest the term: 'Dictator' as
being more appropriate. He certainly ACTS like a dictator. A dangerously
unbalanced one at that.

As
I have pointed out before, and as we just revisited when you were
stupid enough to accuse me of having been an apartheid secret policemen
in BOSS, there are kibbitzers and there are doers. You are a rather
useless kibbitzer. President Bush is a doer.

**A doer? A liar, a dangerously unbalanced moron, a man who has consumed far
too much cocaine and one who allows his personal agenda get in the way of
running the most powerful military on Earth, certainly, but not a doer.

He puts himself forward
for election in the greatest democracy on earth,

**"The greatest Democracy on Earth"? You've got to be kidding. The fiasco of
the Gore-Bush election put paid to any pretentions of "great" or good.
Bush's military history has been comprehensively buried, along with his drug
taking and drunk driving record. Bush is pure evil. He had a rather noble
and just cause - that of finding and capturing Bin Laden. Instead of
concentrating efforst to acheive that aim, he lied to the whole world about
WMDs and decided to invade Iraq, despite international objections. Bush
acted out of a purely personal vendetta, to secure reliable supplies of oil
for his cronies and (possibly) a personal desire to see his father's war
finally complete. He still has not managed to capture Bin Laden.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

Anotec classic Bush quote.

"I know that nothing can end the pain of the families who have lost loved
ones in this struggle, but they can know that their sacrifice has added to
America's security and the freedom of the world," he said.

****ing charming. I guess Hitler could have said the same thing about the
Jews, hey it's OK I'm gassing them, since they were a threat to Germany.

Paul Dormer wrote:
" emitted :

I don't recognize your description of the leader of the free world.
As
I have pointed out before, and as we just revisited when you were
stupid enough to accuse me of having been an apartheid secret
policemen
in BOSS

Pinkie has been frothing at the mouth since the hunting with dogs
bill
went through... :-(

It's probably a fear-reflex. I heard that out there in bush-Britain
they're shooting mongrels as surplus to requirements. Pinko probably
knows he's getting on, due for he chop, so you can't blame him too much
for frothing at the mouth.

Andre Jute

Here's my original post in full, complete with Pinkerton's utterly
irrational reply:

Stewart Pinkerton wrote:
On 18 Mar 2005 16:23:48 -0800, wrote:
(1) Yeah, I know you want me to spell champagne with a capital. I
don't
think so but thanks for your thoughts all the same. I'm not a
fashion
victim, and I have a lifelong record of resistance to hypocritical,

self-serving French political correctness. I laboured in that
vineyard
before President Bush (a great man) even discovered where France is

on
the map. Can't blame him. A few elections from now it will not be
necessary for an American president to know where France is.


How fascinating that you hate French political correctness, but
admire
the ultra-PC fundamentalist neo-Nazi Bush.

Huh? Too much blood must have run into your brain while you clasped
your ankles for so long, Pinko.


I don't hate the French. I find their pretensions amusing. I like
French wine and food and cars (my third loyalty next to Porsche and
big
American V8s in European chasses is to Citroen whose SM was one of the

cars I kept longest).


the ultra-PC fundamentalist neo-Nazi Bush.

I don't recognize your description of the leader of the free world. As
I have pointed out before, and as we just revisited when you were
stupid enough to accuse me of having been an apartheid secret
policemen
in BOSS, there are kibbitzers and there are doers. You are a rather
useless kibbitzer. President Bush is a doer. He puts himself forward
for election in the greatest democracy on earth, you brag on the
internet that you are the biggest junk mail merchant in England, a
tree
killer. Why should we believe your opinion is worth ****?


I can see you're trying to be a polemecist. It's too late; you're too
old to learn. But, if you insist on your right to make a fool of
yourself, I'd suggest you try hurling yourself against the ankles of

someone smaller than me until you discover the extent of your skill,
which presently is nonexistent.

Trevor Wilson wrote:

wrote in message
oups.com...

Stewart Pinkerton wrote:
On 18 Mar 2005 16:23:48 -0800, wrote:

(1) Yeah, I know you want me to spell champagne with a capital. I
don't
think so but thanks for your thoughts all the same. I'm not a
fashion
victim, and I have a lifelong record of resistance to hypocritical,
self-serving French political correctness. I laboured in that
vineyard
before President Bush (a great man) even discovered where France is
on
the map. Can't blame him. A few elections from now it will not be
necessary for an American president to know where France is.

How fascinating that you hate French political correctness, but
admire
the ultra-PC fundamentalist neo-Nazi Bush.

Huh? Too much blood must have run into your brain while you clasped
your ankles for so long, Pinko.

I don't hate the French. I find their pretensions amusing. I like
French wine and food and cars (my third loyalty next to Porsche and big
American V8s in European chasses is to Citroen whose SM was one of the
cars I kept longest).

the ultra-PC fundamentalist neo-Nazi Bush.

I don't recognize your description of the leader of the free world.

**Leader of the free world? Given that a miniscule proportion of that free
world, actually voted for him, that would suggest the term: 'Dictator' as
being more appropriate. He certainly ACTS like a dictator. A dangerously
unbalanced one at that.

As
I have pointed out before, and as we just revisited when you were
stupid enough to accuse me of having been an apartheid secret policemen
in BOSS, there are kibbitzers and there are doers. You are a rather
useless kibbitzer. President Bush is a doer.

**A doer? A liar, a dangerously unbalanced moron, a man who has consumed far
too much cocaine and one who allows his personal agenda get in the way of
running the most powerful military on Earth, certainly, but not a doer.

He puts himself forward
for election in the greatest democracy on earth,

**"The greatest Democracy on Earth"? You've got to be kidding. The fiasco of
the Gore-Bush election put paid to any pretentions of "great" or good.
Bush's military history has been comprehensively buried, along with his drug
taking and drunk driving record. Bush is pure evil. He had a rather noble
and just cause - that of finding and capturing Bin Laden. Instead of
concentrating efforst to acheive that aim, he lied to the whole world about
WMDs and decided to invade Iraq, despite international objections. Bush
acted out of a purely personal vendetta, to secure reliable supplies of oil
for his cronies and (possibly) a personal desire to see his father's war
finally complete. He still has not managed to capture Bin Laden.

The problem lies deeper than just leaders.

The US elections show clearly that virtually 50% of ppl
in the US like George Dubbya Bush.
The layers and swindlers didn't have to push very hard to make a close election
swing the way of Bush, so really it didn't matter who won.
the fact is, 1/2 of americans like GB.
1/2 don't of course, and they might get their turn in the years ahead,
when someone like Bill Clinton again appears to attract them.

I know americans who firmly believe
that the Vietnam war wasn't lost, they say "well, we killed 3 million fukkin
gooks,
but lost only 50,000 of our boys."
I also know many americans think oppositely, and think Vietnam was
another tragedy of monumental proportions to all involved.


Politics is a stinking business, and i prefer to
keep clear of politicians, and what they do,
but its ordinary ppl who put them there.
I try to limit their power when I vote,
and that's the only tiny power I have.

Meanwhile, I doubt what GB does, or the soldiers he sends
have a great effect on what India and China do.

They continue to furiously expand their economies,
and with that comes a huge demand for oil, because up to now,
the average person outside the 20% of folks in the "free" world,
the other 80% in the "unfree" world has a grossly poor standard of living,
and are they not entitled to a peice of pie too?
Some clean water and a telephone, education, and a system that works
without corruption would be nice little extras, but it will take years.....


Bin Laden has said the price of oil should be 4 times what it
is because unlike most other commodities, oil prices have been
suppressed for far too long.

The arabs re-investing oil wealth in western economies
would be shy about letting oil prices rise too fast, lest they push the
"free" world into a recession, and lest the oil price drop, and their profits
take a dip.
Its a sensitive balance situation with the oil prices.
There will continue to be an enormous reliance on oil until it runs out in about
70 years.
It has only taken millions of years to acrue underground, but we will have used
it all
in about 200 years, while changing the planet more than any other natural event.

A couple of thousand dead american soldiers is a small price to pay
to continue to keep the oil price low, and to prop up
the US dollar, and alter the strategic balance of power in the middle east,
and give hopes to millions of arabs that they just night be allowed some
democracy for a change.

The means to the end is rarely seen as right and proper, it always looks like
thuggery,
and the work of a dictatorship. Abu Grave prison techniques also make it all
look stinky,
but the tortured souls in the prisons smeared with menstral blood from female US
soldiers
and left without being able to clean it off is nowhere near as bad the way the
Japanese
or Germans treated incarcerated ppl in WW2.


Peaceful methods to an end would be more effective, but nobody much feels
peaceful.
If 3 billion people "did a ghandi" and just sat in the middle of the roads all
around the world,
and wouldn't move until change occurred, we'd get somewhere, but the ordinary
little man or woman
won't take the collective step, he/she is too selfish, and given power,
would crush his neighbour like a cockroach given the chance,
if it meant his existance and progeny will benefit.

Patrick Turner.

Nath wrote:

Anotec classic Bush quote.

"I know that nothing can end the pain of the families who have lost loved
ones in this struggle, but they can know that their sacrifice has added to
America's security and the freedom of the world," he said.

****ing charming. I guess Hitler could have said the same thing about the
Jews, hey it's OK I'm gassing them, since they were a threat to Germany.

Any leader could say that in a time of war.
In 1942, Oz was under threat from Japanese invasion,
and Darwin was bombed on several occasions.

Men went to their death by the thousand, to
prevent an asian invasion.

And thousands of Oz soldiers died in european wars
for democracy's sake.

What would you do if faced by such wars? runaway and hide?

Patrick Turner.

On Sun, 20 Mar 2005 01:00:57 +0000, Paul Dormer
wrote:

" emitted :

I don't recognize your description of the leader of the free world.

That's because you are so far to the right of Dubya that you think
he's a liberal.

Pinkie has been frothing at the mouth since the hunting with dogs bill
went through... :-(

Not really, since hunting just carries on under the new rules...

--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

And thousands of Oz soldiers died in european wars
for democracy's sake.

What would you do if faced by such wars? runaway and hide?

Patrick Turner.

You're comparing the "victim" countries that are plainly aggressive to those
that are not.

In that same token, Iran has a right to take pre-emptive strikes since the
US, UK and all other "allies" are in fact aggressive (and the UN to stop
aggressors and act neutral is a joke). At the moment Bush is doing the usual
bull**** through the teeth propaganda to alleviate the general publics
conscience that going after Iran "is a good idea"

Now perhaps if these countries actually do strike first..then obviously a
reason for WW III. Taking out countries for financial/resource reasons, and
lying about their capabilities stinks. Our grandfathers died to stop a
racist fascist war mongerer...didn't make a jot of difference...got one now
(religious zealot as well)

Nath wrote:

And thousands of Oz soldiers died in european wars
for democracy's sake.

What would you do if faced by such wars? runaway and hide?

Patrick Turner.

You're comparing the "victim" countries that are plainly aggressive to those
that are not.

Not sure what you mean....
But you never answered my question, faced with
a real threat to world peace and democracy, is it something you'd fight
to save?



In that same token, Iran has a right to take pre-emptive strikes since the
US, UK and all other "allies" are in fact aggressive (and the UN to stop
aggressors and act neutral is a joke). At the moment Bush is doing the usual
bull**** through the teeth propaganda to alleviate the general publics
conscience that going after Iran "is a good idea"

The problem with nukes is that we really can't afford a nuclear war.

Perhaps a bit of sabre rattling by Bush will have the mullahs
thinking a bit before they drop a little N cracker in Isreal.

The Israelis have taken action on their own a few times
on their neighbours, and sure the arabs ran around screaming
for revenge. Iraq tried to go nuclear, so Israel bombed the reactor,
and then Iraq went over to chemical weapons.
Thousands of Kurds got gassed.

It would have been a great idea for the secret service spooks to have taken out
Hitler
in about 1936, as soon as the allies were aware of the actions against jews,
dissidents, and the atrocities committed by the nazis.


Now perhaps if these countries actually do strike first..then obviously a
reason for WW III.

Why wait for WW3? why not prevent it, a coupla cruise missiles in the right
place to demolish the iranian nuclear facilities would do a lotta good.

What would you rather have? would you like to see all these
little nations equip themselves with weapons of mass destruction just like the
US?
Nth Korea is a worry though, and the US doesn't seem able to do much.
It might upset China. Trade could be threatened.

Taking out countries for financial/resource reasons, and
lying about their capabilities stinks.

Only the lies and the 20,000 innocent arab deaths stink.
You forgot the thousands of children who died as a result of sanctions.
No medicines got to them.
Sanctions didn't work.
Only US or foreign know-how will release the energy below the sands of Iraq for
all mankind and
women kind to squander as they wish.
What damn right has one country situated over the top of an oil field
to "own" the oil?
I thought resources belonged to everyone, not just those born near it.
In the first gulf war, 1990/91, US troops were prevented from going all the way
to Bagdad. I thought it would have saved a lot of future troubles.
It seemed the beurocracy of democracy prevented measures to truly
defeat Saddam's regime.
The allies in WW2 were not satisfied with having Germany pull back inside its
borders,
That would have been slapping Hitler's wrist, nah, they went right
in and busted the nazis to pieces, put them on trial, and hanged a lot of them.
The stole all the german know-how and patents they could,
and why not? The nazis started it all.
But after the war, the Marshall Plan dumped enormous funds back into Germany,
and by 1955
West Germany was making more steel than Britain.
The Russians took revenge instead, and impoverished East Germany.


But many Iraqis jumped for joy when Saddam was forced off the scene.

Probably 10,000 got killed on Iraqi road accidents last year;
50,000 in the US, and I heard 25,000 in Iran.
People live, and they die.
13,000 died in the US after shooting each other, and droves are involved in the
drug trade.
The drug trade is flourishing well in Afghanistan now the Taliban
have been diminished.
Is anyone able to cure all the ongoing problems with these
parts of the world?


Our grandfathers died to stop a
racist fascist war mongerer...didn't make a jot of difference...got one now
(religious zealot as well)

Anyway, wars, invasions, occupations always take longer than planned,
and if Algeria is anything to go by, Iraq has years of problems ahead it,
and just how long the US can spend 1 billion bucks a week
to have an army there without an immediate return remains to be seen.
But Vietnam didn't collapse the US; I doubt Iraq will.
The US civil war which cost a million men was won fairly easily
by the North, once they became determined.
Just what were all those great grandfathers thinking when they took up arms to
kill each other? what a waste. How stupid, how arsolic, but that's people.

Shooting it out *is* the american way.

Sure, Bush is an arsole, I know that, but so was Saddam,
and he would have maintained the slaughter of his own people
had he been left there. The US set Saddam up in the first instance,
and then he became "too big for his boots", and a damn nuisance.
His sons were even bigger a-holes who would have followed
Saddam into power, perhaps after a coup, and murdering their daddy.

Voters in the US are not too impressed with their great granddads' actions,
or have they forgotten? have they ever under stood or learnt from history?
Anyway, a very slim majority of americans are behind Bush,
and there isn't much use winging about it.
Bush was elected; he didn't seize power like Hitler, Mussolini,
Mugabe, Idi Amin, Pol Pot, and a host of others.
The ppl of america didn't mind him stealing the first election.
Someone always steals a very close election.
Anyway, he just scraped across the line a second time.
Not even Michael Moore could convince america
Bush was crap.
Next time it may be the Democrats turn, if Bush ****s up,
and **** up he might, and a credible opposition leader emerges.
George Bush senoir wasn't long on the throne.....

At this point in time i think Iraq hasn't lost any war with the US,
since it has caused grief to US taxpayers who have funded this war.
200 billion bucks so far? whatever it is, the money could have paid for a lot of
better
hospitals and schools in the US.
If enough americans tire of the lowering standard of living, maybe they'll
vote differently next time.

Just don't think a Democrat government will make everything rosy.

And in the years ahead, ppl will die early and screaming in Iraq,
and **** will happen, and dry sands will blow around the deserts
with a small lethal amount of depleted uranium which could never be cleaned up,
and lots of people will die just from that. The depleted uranium used in anti
tank shells
by the US is one of the most hushed up secrets....
Expect to see plenty of servicemen with
"Iraq war syndrome" in the next 20 years.

All governments give us a lot to complain about.

Iraq was the cradle of civilization. They have had 10,000 years to get the
recipe right.

If 22 million of them strolled over to wherever the US troops hang out and
said in a unified loud voice "Please go home", and they wouldn't
leave the US barracks until the troops agreed, then the US would be out of Iraq
next week.
It just hasn't happened.

Then those 22 millions would then have to start to sort out a mess.
But they argue amoungst themselves so much, it won't happen anytime soon.
At least the minority Sunni tribes are sore losers, and still think Saddam
is the rightful leader of Iraq.

Patrick Turner.

Nath wrote:
****ing charming. I guess Hitler could have said the same thing about
the Jews, hey it's OK I'm gassing them, since they were a threat to
Germany.
---------
Speaking of gas,

Dutchman in Iraq genocide charges
Mr Van Anraat lived in Iraq for several years before March 2003
Prosecutors in the Netherlands have formally charged a Dutch businessman
with complicity in genocide for selling chemicals to Iraq's former
regime.
Frans van Anraat, 62, is accused of selling US and Japanese chemicals
which were used to produce poison gas.
The gases are said to have been used to kill more than 5,000 in a 1988
attack on the Kurdish Iraqi town of Halabja. Mr van Anraat earlier
admitted selling chemicals but told Dutch TV he had not known what they
would be used for. The full trial of the businessman - the first Dutch
national to be prosecuted for genocide - is not due to start until
November. Evidence being used by prosecutors includes information
obtained from the former head of Iraq's chemical weapons programme, Ali
Hassan al-Majid, otherwise known as Chemical Ali. He has been charged in
Iraq of masterminding the mustard gas attack on Halabja for which Saddam
Hussein also faces charges. 'Not my order'
Frans van Anraat listened to the charges on Friday in the Rotterdam
courtroom in the presence of four survivors of the Halabja attack, each
of whom are demanding more than $10,000 (7,513 euros) in damages.
=A0=A0The images of the gas attack on the Kurdish city Halabja were a
shock. But I did not give the order to do that.
Frans van Anraat
Interview, 2003
The atmosphere in the courtroom was sombre as a prosecutor read them
out, the BBC's Geraldine Coughlan reports. The prosecution said there
was a direct link between the injuries of two victims and a chemical
substance known as TDG, allegedly supplied by the businessman.
"Van Anraat was conscious of... the fact that his materials were going
to be used for poison gas attacks," said prosecutor Fred Teeven. "The
damage and grief caused will not be rapidly, if ever, forgotten." Mr van
Anraat is charged with supplying thousands of tons of raw materials for
chemical weapons used in the 1980-1988 war against Iran and against
Iraqi Kurds.
According to prosecutors, the United Nations has described Mr van Anraat
as "one of the most important middlemen in Iraq's acquisition of
chemical material".
His defence lawyers said there was no convincing evidence linking the
material supplied by Mr van Anraat and chemical weapons used by Saddam.
In a 2003 interview, Mr van Anraat denied being aware of the attack.
"The images of the gas attack on the Kurdish city Halabja were a shock.
But I did not give the order to do that," he told Dutch magazine Revu.
"How many products, such as bullets, do we make in the Netherlands?"
Iraqi haven
One of the survivors in court, Karwan Abdula, told AFP news agency that
the arrest of van Anraat "was nearly as important as the arrest of
Saddam Hussein".
Prosecutors say the Dutchman had been a suspect since 1989, when he was
arrested in Milan, Italy, at the request of the US government.
Kurds have demanded justice over the Halabja attack But he was later
released and fled to Iraq, where he remained until
2003.
During that time, reports say he fed information to the Dutch
intelligence agency on Saddam Hussein's weapons programme. After the
US-led invasion of Iraq in March 2003, he returned to the Netherlands
and was arrested in December 2004 at his Amsterdam home. The UN suspects
he made 36 separate shipments of chemicals via the Belgian port of
Antwerp through Aqaba in Jordan to Iraq, the prosecution says.
At Friday's hearing, judges rejected a request by Mr van Anraat to be
provisionally released pending trial - to applause from the public
gallery.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4360137.stm

On Sun, 20 Mar 2005 22:05:42 +0000, Paul Dormer
wrote:

"Stewart Pinkerton" emitted :

Pinkie has been frothing at the mouth since the hunting with dogs bill
went through... :-(

Not really, since hunting just carries on under the new rules...

Laws, Stewart... Laws!

Same thing. You think 'duty' isn't the same as 'tax'?

You're lying.. you know full well hunting doesn't just "carry on".

Hunting is alive and well, it just requires more attention to detail.

However, it's good to see you are willing to accept defeat.. despite
your previous track record of bloviating about "ole country ways". ;-)

Not a defeat, simply a strategic withdrawal and regrouping! :-)

--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

RS McCown wrote:

Nath wrote:
****ing charming. I guess Hitler could have said the same thing about
the Jews, hey it's OK I'm gassing them, since they were a threat to
Germany.

I have never copulated with Charming, but I hear she's good at it.

Hitler was mistaken. The Jews might have their peculiar characteristics,
but I have met enough jews to know Hitler was wrong, and deserved to be shot
by
an assasin after he murdered the first jew he murdered.

You have a warped way of thinking, and you have no sense of right or wrong,
so anything anyone does could be wrong, right, whatever.




---------
Speaking of gas,

Dutchman in Iraq genocide charges
Mr Van Anraat lived in Iraq for several years before March 2003
Prosecutors in the Netherlands have formally charged a Dutch businessman
with complicity in genocide for selling chemicals to Iraq's former
regime.
Frans van Anraat, 62, is accused of selling US and Japanese chemicals
which were used to produce poison gas.
The gases are said to have been used to kill more than 5,000 in a 1988
attack on the Kurdish Iraqi town of Halabja. Mr van Anraat earlier
admitted selling chemicals but told Dutch TV he had not known what they
would be used for. The full trial of the businessman - the first Dutch
national to be prosecuted for genocide - is not due to start until
November. Evidence being used by prosecutors includes information
obtained from the former head of Iraq's chemical weapons programme, Ali
Hassan al-Majid, otherwise known as Chemical Ali. He has been charged in
Iraq of masterminding the mustard gas attack on Halabja for which Saddam
Hussein also faces charges. 'Not my order'
Frans van Anraat listened to the charges on Friday in the Rotterdam
courtroom in the presence of four survivors of the Halabja attack, each
of whom are demanding more than $10,000 (7,513 euros) in damages.
The images of the gas attack on the Kurdish city Halabja were a
shock. But I did not give the order to do that.
Frans van Anraat
Interview, 2003
The atmosphere in the courtroom was sombre as a prosecutor read them
out, the BBC's Geraldine Coughlan reports. The prosecution said there
was a direct link between the injuries of two victims and a chemical
substance known as TDG, allegedly supplied by the businessman.
"Van Anraat was conscious of... the fact that his materials were going
to be used for poison gas attacks," said prosecutor Fred Teeven. "The
damage and grief caused will not be rapidly, if ever, forgotten." Mr van
Anraat is charged with supplying thousands of tons of raw materials for
chemical weapons used in the 1980-1988 war against Iran and against
Iraqi Kurds.
According to prosecutors, the United Nations has described Mr van Anraat
as "one of the most important middlemen in Iraq's acquisition of
chemical material".
His defence lawyers said there was no convincing evidence linking the
material supplied by Mr van Anraat and chemical weapons used by Saddam.
In a 2003 interview, Mr van Anraat denied being aware of the attack.
"The images of the gas attack on the Kurdish city Halabja were a shock.
But I did not give the order to do that," he told Dutch magazine Revu.
"How many products, such as bullets, do we make in the Netherlands?"
Iraqi haven
One of the survivors in court, Karwan Abdula, told AFP news agency that
the arrest of van Anraat "was nearly as important as the arrest of
Saddam Hussein".
Prosecutors say the Dutchman had been a suspect since 1989, when he was
arrested in Milan, Italy, at the request of the US government.
Kurds have demanded justice over the Halabja attack But he was later
released and fled to Iraq, where he remained until
2003.
During that time, reports say he fed information to the Dutch
intelligence agency on Saddam Hussein's weapons programme. After the
US-led invasion of Iraq in March 2003, he returned to the Netherlands
and was arrested in December 2004 at his Amsterdam home. The UN suspects
he made 36 separate shipments of chemicals via the Belgian port of
Antwerp through Aqaba in Jordan to Iraq, the prosecution says.
At Friday's hearing, judges rejected a request by Mr van Anraat to be
provisionally released pending trial - to applause from the public
gallery.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4360137.stm

If I had a dollar for every crim that pleaded he was innocent,
and for every arsole that pleaded he was not a passer of poop,
I'd be rich.

Its good to see a few crims jailed, and a few a-holes blocked up.

Patrick Turner.