[Eeyore]

Bret Ludwig wrote:

Eeyore wrote:
Bret Ludwig wrote:
In the 70s all the electronics magazines encoruraged and assumed home
manufacture of PCBs from published layouts. It killed the electronics
hobby for twenty years.

Utter nonsence on both counts.

Guys stopped pursuing electronics as a nerd hobby because they discovered girls
like sex too (but not with nerds) and sex was more rewarding.

Nonsense. People were having sex long before electronics and they'll
be doing it long after.

Less so back then before they got married.

Graham

[Eeyore]

Bret Ludwig wrote:

"Arny Krueger" wrote:

Not at all. What killed that form of the electronics hobby involved two
major forces:

(1) Automated and/or off-shore production eliminated a lot of economic
advantages to building-it-yourself
(2) Electronics systems became more complex, and the entities that we used
to think of as major system components became more minor.

Yes but they don't always work as well. Look at the coil-on-plug
ignitions. The coils are too small to give a really good zap.

Utter nonsense !

Graham

[Patrick Turner]

Iain Churches wrote:

"Patrick Turner" wrote in message
...

Y'know Iain, youse got a fabulous work room for tinkering around with
audio gear.

But it kinda looks like hardly anything happens in there.
Where is the almost uncontrolled mess that every productive work place
has when things are being done?

We are four people sharing five rooms in total about 120
square metres so we have plenty of space.

I have 7 x 6 metres, and a total of 16 mtres x 1m wide is bench.
All is covered over in all manner of stuff.
There are no bare walls, except windoews along the eastern side,
and a long roof light lets in daylight during winter.

Two of the guys make bespoke guitar amps, and do repairs
(turntables, studio analogue tape machines etc), so
there is a lot of stuff coming in and going out every day.

I couldn't share a workshop.

We decided at the outset to be tidy and organised. It works:-)
We have a separate shop for metal and woodwork, and for metal
prep prior to anodising, and another room used for lacquer and
painting of guitar amp cabinets. All have air extractors.

I have about 35sm under a roof outside the shed.
Its crammed with shelving both sides and all manner of collected gear.
Boxes of stuff as well as empty boxes are squeezing me out of their too.


In my shed, the number of items being fixed, stripped down, reassembled,
waiting for parts,
waiting for time, outnumber the meagre amount of gear by a margin of at
least +25dB.

We also have a huge store room where we keep amps,
tape recorders, etc coming in and going out. Each one has a tag
label. It's pretty efficient.

Gee, I didn't think the word efficiency could be applied to my business
at all...

Real efficiency would be to chuck that 1960 crap and buy modern, but no,
they want it fixed, and for almost nothing, so i say when i get time,
there are 20 ahead of you.
So soon I have a full workshop with everyones's little sick orphan
needing a fix
and waiting for a quiet time, its never happened in the last 3 years.
Some despair, and perhaps even get a bit cranky, and I start saying well
how come you'll pay
a fooking plumber $80 per hour to fix a rotten drain pipe, but you only
wanna
pay me $2? Some grab their gear and go to some other struggling
professional artisan.
Make me a deal I can't refuse I say, and their lips are sealed.
So one reason the shed is so crammed is that a lot of stuff
is on a "long term" fix.
I don't really care anymore about spending a "quiet time" on gear that
takes many hours, and for which I get peanuts.
I don't care that i upset ppl if I won't do their hobby work for them
without pay.
There are a lot of failed hobbyists out there, gunner do this, gunner do
that, and never do anything.
About 1 in every 3 radios is not picked up after I fix them.

One result is the long forsale list at my website. Initially I sold much
of the tube gear
quickly. The rest is mainly SS and there some bargains but it all
stubbornly refuses to sell.


My only regret is that I don't get to spend enough time there as
I would like.

I have seen many chaotic workshops where one spends half ones
time looking for a screwdriver or an automatic centre punch.
That's not my style:-)

I find tools OK, my memory is still good.

And I have more than one darn screw driver and centre punch.

When I do have a big clean up it lasts about a week, and its time for
another.

My loungeroom has parts of ESL speakers all over the place.
Progress on them stalled as well because of arcing problems
which took a fortnight to sus out, and maybe they still will not work
properly.
You read all this crap bout how easy it is to build a kit, and it simply
isn't easy,
and **** happens that shouldn't happen, and even the kit maker won't
replay to my emails.

So what was supposed to take a couple of weeks will stretch to 3 months,
and in the ESL
project I am very much alone.

If I was married, I'd be divorced soon...

Patrick Turner.

Iain

[Eeyore]

flipper wrote:

who has the financial resources to acquire their own IC flab equipment

LOL @ "flab" !

Graham

[moby]

All this disussion and no answer to the question....
First generate your layout. This can be done with Bishop Graphics
lines and dots on translucent mylar overlaid on graphpaper (if you can
still get the stuff) or preferably using a PC package like Protel
Autotrax, which is free, fast and intuitive. Using the traxplot
program, generate a postscript file which you take to your friendly
local litho shop and ask them to make you a negative. 1:1 size,
emulsion non reading side. Make sure your postscript generating
programs malke centre dots in the pads or your drills will skate and
snap. Prepare your laminate by buffing the copper side with steel
wool, apply an even coating of Kodak KPR photoresist to the copper
side, dry in front of a heater vertically with a paper towell along
the bottom to catch the drips. Sandwich the board behind the neg in a
perspex frame (glass stops UV). Preheat your 175 watt mercury vapour
streetlamp (with the outer glass smashed off) to full intensity then
expose the board for 2 minutes (distance aroound 30cm). Wash off
unexposed resist with KPR developer or Toluol until image clearly
visible. Bake board in front of heater to harden resist. Premix 25%
100vol H202 + 25% conc HCl + 50% water (just enough for the job - it
doesnt keep). Etch board in this witches brew, taking care not to
breathe during the etching. Takes about 2 minutes, agitate gently.
Plunge etched board into water and rinse well. Use surplus etchant to
kill bamboo. Drill board with tungsten carbide bits in a drill press.
M

[Patrick Turner]

Eeyore wrote:

Bret Ludwig wrote:

Eeyore wrote:
Bret Ludwig wrote:
In the 70s all the electronics magazines encoruraged and assumed home
manufacture of PCBs from published layouts. It killed the electronics
hobby for twenty years.

Utter nonsence on both counts.

Guys stopped pursuing electronics as a nerd hobby because they discovered girls
like sex too (but not with nerds) and sex was more rewarding.

Nonsense. People were having sex long before electronics and they'll
be doing it long after.


Rubbish. There will never be life without electronics;
without electronics your're dead.
Its a comforting thought to realise that
the most determined female necrophiliac hasn't yet been able to make a
dead bloke's cock get hard.

So sex after electronics doesn't look like happening.


Less so back then before they got married.

Once the Pill arrived, hardly anyone waited until marriage to plunge it
in.

The divorce rate is 50% so only half the population seemed to like sex
much......

They now have electronically operated ****ing machines, discrete auto
suck devices
that can be applied while doing menial sit down jobs, like being a
judge,
and not to mention a hole array of vibrating tools.

Sex has changed since electronics was applied to the task in hand.

Now you are expected to sign a pre-coital agreement before hitting the
bed sheets,
and of course she gets to see your aids test status sheet signed by a
doctor,
but she won't show you hers.

Usually it makes sure a woman gets hard cash for sex, even if she's a
church going Presbyterian.

Its prudent for the DIY electronics enthusiast to
just hand the woman a vibrator, tear up the agreement,
and **** off back you your shed.

Concentration on triodes is more rewarding than concentration on BS.

Patrick Turner.

Graham

[Arny Krueger]

"Eeyore" wrote in
message
Bret Ludwig wrote:

"Arny Krueger" wrote:

Not at all. What killed that form of the electronics
hobby involved two major forces:

(1) Automated and/or off-shore production eliminated a
lot of economic advantages to building-it-yourself
(2) Electronics systems became more complex, and the
entities that we used to think of as major system
components became more minor.

Yes but they don't always work as well. Look at the
coil-on-plug ignitions. The coils are too small to give
a really good zap.

Agreed.
Utter nonsense !

Graham

[Eeyore]

Arny Krueger wrote:

Bret Ludwig wrote:

Yes but they don't always work as well. Look at the
coil-on-plug ignitions. The coils are too small to give
a really good zap.

Agreed.

Saab direct ignition here. No problems at all.

Graham

[Arny Krueger]

"Eeyore" wrote in
message
Arny Krueger wrote:

Bret Ludwig wrote:

Yes but they don't always work as well. Look at the
coil-on-plug ignitions. The coils are too small to give
a really good zap.

Agreed.

Saab direct ignition here. No problems at all.

The Milan (Mercury-badged Fusion) I've been talking about uses direct
ignition (coils directly mounted on sparkplugs) as well. The advantage is no
high voltage distributor and negligable high voltage wiring.

BTW, the US Fusion seems to have no UK equivalent, as you don't seem to seem
to have the 3.0 liter V6 Mazda 6 over there. About as close as the UK gets
is the Mondeo. Still, no cigar.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_Milan

The engine is the VVT V6:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Mondeo_V6_engine#VVT

[Iain Churches]

"Patrick Turner" wrote in message
...

I couldn't share a workshop.

It is rare that there are more than two of us there at the same
time. And, economically it makes very good sense indeed.

I enjoy the group dynamic, and find discussion with people
with similar interests, but a totally different approach is
informative. I would feel mean having all that space to myself.

But in choosing a cell.mate one has to be careful. Word
got around by bush.-telegraph, we had no shortage of
applicants.

Gee, I didn't think the word efficiency could be applied to my business
at all...

:-)))

A lot of equipment that passes through is on its way too
or from e-Bay.

CD players over five years with faults are usually consigned to the
scrap bin. Studer, Quad and Denon prof machines are the exception.
Studio analogue recorders and turntables receive lots of TLC:-))

I don't often get involved in repairs, but it is interesting to see
how the system works. Someone brings in an amp. It is checked
over to see what needs to be done, and a price is given. Any parts
not on the shelf are then ordered. The client either then takes the
amp away, or it goes into the storage area. When the parts arrive
the amp is brought to the workshop, and client informed that it is
"under anaesthetic" He can usually collect it the same day.


Real efficiency would be to chuck that 1960 crap and buy modern, but no,
they want it fixed, and for almost nothing, so i say when i get time,
there are 20 ahead of you.
So soon I have a full workshop with everyones's little sick orphan
needing a fix
and waiting for a quiet time, its never happened in the last 3 years.
Some despair, and perhaps even get a bit cranky, and I start saying well
how come you'll pay
a fooking plumber $80 per hour to fix a rotten drain pipe, but you only
wanna
pay me $2? Some grab their gear and go to some other struggling
professional artisan.
Make me a deal I can't refuse I say, and their lips are sealed.
So one reason the shed is so crammed is that a lot of stuff
is on a "long term" fix.
I don't really care anymore about spending a "quiet time" on gear that
takes many hours, and for which I get peanuts.
I don't care that i upset ppl if I won't do their hobby work for them
without pay.
There are a lot of failed hobbyists out there, gunner do this, gunner do
that, and never do anything.
About 1 in every 3 radios is not picked up after I fix them.

I wonder if you are doing too much too cheaply Patrick?
People here are happy to pay Euro100 (AUD 164) an hr
(min charge Euro 55) for prompt and reliable service at
a high standard of workmanship.

I find tools OK, my memory is still good.

We share a lot of the metal working tools, taps, punches,
dies, reamers etc and so returning them to their proper home
is important.

And I have more than one darn screw driver and centre punch.

That's another advantage of sharing a workshop, I now have
access to metalworking and finishing machines that I could not
even dream of owning. In contrast most of the audio test gear
plus the equipment in the listening room is mine. Another guy
has contributed the four computers.

When I do have a big clean up it lasts about a week, and its time for
another.

It's a daily routine for us. 10 mins most, including the kitchen:-)

Iain

[Iain Churches]

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
"Iain Churches" wrote in message
.fi
"Eeyore" wrote
in message ...


Arny Krueger wrote:

Strange you should bring that up Iain, given that
you've never had end-to-end responsiblity for a
recording in your life. You're like one of those guys
on the Cadillac production line who makes the best cars
in the world.

Ohhh... !

SHUT UP Arny ! This is where you get so damn tedious.
Stop winding the poor guy
up !

Graham


Graham. Don't take Arny seriously. There is no way he can
possibly wind me up - I have heard his recordings:-)))

His analogy between car production and recording is
probably the worst example he could possible make, and
illustrates Arny's total lack of understanding of what
recording is all about.

No Iain, it illustrates a fact that you don't want to admit - you were
just a cog in a music-making machine.

I am, and always have been, proud to have been part of a team.
On many of the projects for which I am selected, I am asked to
lead that team.


Classical recordings bear no relation to mass produced
cars,

Sure it does - in both cases we have well-capitalized efforts by a goodly
sized group of people.

Most classical teams are small, and much of the
funding here in Europe for small labels comes
from EU cultural foundations. Projects are well-
funded and high quality results are expected.


Recordings are made by small, highly skilled production
and technical teams.

Thanks Iain for showing that you know nothing about how cars are produced.

There is only one thing in the world which interest
me less than car production, Arny, and that's
computer repairs:-)
Tube amps interest people on this group.
Let's talk about those.



Each member has a specific role,
and is credited in that role on the recording inlay card
or sleeve.

OK, so cars don't come with credits printed on them. And, your comments
ignore the arbitrary nature of whose name gets on the album jacket, and
whose doesn't.

I cannot speak for every production made by every
label, but the companies for which I have worked
always ensure that the whole team - production,
recording, editing, mastering plus sleeve
designers (and of course musical instrument
technicians who tune and maintain specialist instruments
such as gamba, and harpsichord) get the credit
which they richly deserve for their valuable contribution.
Often the credits are in three languages. There is
nothing "arbitrary" about that.

But you've missed the point Iain - you've never sole-produced a recording
in your life. Your lack of respect for the people who do sole-produce
recordingsis like many of your self-aggandizing opinions - based in
egotism, arrogance, and ignorance.

"Self-aggandizing" ???? Is that more of the Afrikaans for
which you are renowned? :-))

Arny. The respect which you so clearly crave has to be earned.
There are many many very talented and skilled recording engineers.
Unfortunately, you do not number among them.

You clearly have none of the skills or talents (on which
good recording technique is based) so it is
difficult for you to rise above the mediocre level at
which you seem to be firmly stuck.

Just be thankful that the members of your captive audience
are too busy with their tuneless singing and tambourine
bashing to notice your lack of ability.

Now, can we talk about tube audio?

Regards
Iain

[Iain Churches]

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
"Iain Churches" wrote in message
.fi

I will give you a link to pics of the type 203 preamp
which my pal Markus and I have just completed in this
same workshop, plus a full set of test results made at
Sverige Radio in Stockholm.

As you said Iain, its nothing you made by yourself. Is a pattern showing
through here?

We make our own chassis, from 6, 8, 10mm aircraft-grade
aluminium and stainless steel. My pal is a prototype technician
highly skilled in CNC, plus laser/water cutting and machining.
I rate his efforts far above those of Rob Hammond, whose
products are the choice for most needing a chassis or transformer.

You are ducking and weaving Arny, in a poor attempt to
hide the fact that you have actually built nothing thermionic
either as a solo or team effort.
You seem to have no interest in or knowledge of
tube audio. I wonder why you are here on RAT.

The BBC chap is right, Arny, You *are* all mouth
and trousers:-)

Best wishes for Easter
Iain

[Arny Krueger]

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
. fi
But you've missed the point Iain - you've never
sole-produced a recording in your life. Your lack of
respect for the people who do sole-produce recordingsis
like many of your self-aggandizing opinions - based in
egotism, arrogance, and ignorance.

Arny. The respect which you so clearly crave has to be
earned.

You're so full of yourself, Iain. The respect of fools like you is
meaningless to me.

Furhtermore, you obviously don't know that there is a sort of Zen to
respect - if you try to earn it, you probably won't get it. Respect comes
for doing things right for the sake of right, not for the sake of getting
respect.

There are many many very talented and skilled
recording engineers. Unfortunately, you do not number
among them.

Iain, you've obviously confused yourself with someone who matters to anybody
but yourself. Remember, you have indicted yourself as part of the gang that
ran Decca into the dirt.

You clearly have none of the skills or talents (on which
good recording technique is based) so it is
difficult for you to rise above the mediocre level at
which you seem to be firmly stuck.

Delusions of omnisccience, noted.

Just be thankful that the members of your captive audience
are too busy with their tuneless singing and tambourine
bashing to notice your lack of ability.

Speaks to your willingness to critique that which you know nothing or little
about, Iain.

Now, can we talk about tube audio?

This time try to make some sense, Iain.

Regards
Iain

[Arny Krueger]

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
.fi
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
"Iain Churches" wrote in message
.fi

I will give you a link to pics of the type 203 preamp
which my pal Markus and I have just completed in this
same workshop, plus a full set of test results made at
Sverige Radio in Stockholm.

As you said Iain, its nothing you made by yourself. Is a
pattern showing through here?

We make our own chassis, from 6, 8, 10mm aircraft-grade
aluminium and stainless steel. My pal is a prototype
technician highly skilled in CNC, plus laser/water
cutting and machining. I rate his efforts far above those of Rob Hammond,
whose
products are the choice for most needing a chassis or
transformer.

Thanks for admitting that you are hands-off this important area, Iain.

You are ducking and weaving Arny, in a poor attempt to
hide the fact that you have actually built nothing
thermionic either as a solo or team effort.

Delusions of omnisicence noted. You obviously can't put 2+2 together and get
anything close to 4.

I lived in the times where tubes and vinyl were all we had. In the days when
we had nothing better, I built any number of thermionic audio projects, both
commercial kits and equipment I designed and built from scratch.

You seem to have no interest in or knowledge of tube audio.

Nonsense. I see no reason why anybody should take your opinons about tubed
audio as being meaningful.

I wonder why you are here on RAT.

I have both interest and experience with tubed audio. SS audio really didn't
start holding its own until I was about 20. I have been an audiophile since
I was about 12. Do the math.

[Iain Churches]

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
"Iain Churches" wrote in message
. fi

You're so full of yourself, Iain. The respect of fools like you is
meaningless to me.

Arny, I am sorry that I am unable to say that your recordings
are wonderful. Theyare not. In fact they are quite the worst
I think I have ever heard. But let me not be ungracious. I do
extend my sympathy. Will that do? :-)

Furhtermore, you obviously don't know that there is a sort of Zen to
respect - if you try to earn it, you probably won't get it. Respect comes
for doing things right for the sake of right, not for the sake of getting
respect.

I am hired by people with whom I worked first over thirty years
ago. Our crew is offered far more work than we can handle. There
is clearly a lot of mutual respect here, So I must be doing something
right:-)


There are many many very talented and skilled
recording engineers. Unfortunately, you do not number
among them.

Iain, you've obviously confused yourself with someone who matters to
anybody but yourself. Remember, you have indicted yourself as part of the
gang that ran Decca into the dirt.

You are probably unaware Arny that British and American
Decca are two separate and unrelated companies.
I know little of the state of the American company,
but British Decca, which was incorporated into the PolyGram
Group in 1980, continues to make fine recordings and
win prestigious awards just as it always did. Check the
catalogue.

Just be thankful that the members of your captive audience
are too busy with their tuneless singing and tambourine
bashing to notice your lack of ability.

Speaks to your willingness to critique that which you know nothing or
little about, Iain.

I have heard the "performances" Arny, and I recognise your skill.
It cannot be easy to make such a mess of such a simple task:-))


Iain

[Arny Krueger]

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
.fi

Arny, I am sorry that I am unable to say that your
recordings are wonderful. They are not. In fact they are quite the
worst I think I have ever heard. But let me not be ungracious.
I do extend my sympathy. Will that do? :-)

Iain, I have made about a thousand recordings of live performances in the
past 5 years. Your comment above only makes sense if you have heard a
representative sample of them. How many of my recordings have you actually
heard?

Furhtermore, you obviously don't know that there is a
sort of Zen to respect - if you try to earn it, you
probably won't get it. Respect comes for doing things
right for the sake of right, not for the sake of getting
respect.

I am hired by people with whom I worked first over thirty
years ago. Our crew is offered far more work than we can
handle. There is clearly a lot of mutual respect here, So I must be
doing something right:-)

Again Iain, you have provided no evidence that relates to work you have done
by yourself.


Just be thankful that the members of your captive
audience are too busy with their tuneless singing and
tambourine bashing to notice your lack of ability.

Speaks to your willingness to critique that which you
know nothing or little about, Iain.

I have heard the "performances" Arny, and I recognise
your skill.

Exactly which performances have you heard, Iain?

[Ruud Broens]

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message

: I wonder why you are here on RAT.
:
: I have both interest and experience with tubed audio. SS audio really didn't
: start holding its own until I was about 20. I have been an audiophile since
: I was about 12. Do the math.

yeah, so for 8 years, now some 70 years in the past, you were doing
something
with tubes.

so what ?
:-)
Rudy

[Arny Krueger]

"Ruud Broens" wrote in message
...

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message

: I wonder why you are here on RAT.
:
: I have both interest and experience with tubed audio. SS audio really
didn't
: start holding its own until I was about 20. I have been an audiophile
since
: I was about 12. Do the math.

yeah, so for 8 years, now some 70 years in the past, you were doing
something with tubes.

You're really arithmetically-challenged, aren't you Rudy?

[Ruud Broens]

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
: "Ruud Broens" wrote in message
: ...
:
: "Arny Krueger" wrote in message
:
: : I wonder why you are here on RAT.
: :
: : I have both interest and experience with tubed audio. SS audio really
: didn't
: : start holding its own until I was about 20. I have been an audiophile
: since
: : I was about 12. Do the math.
:
: yeah, so for 8 years, now some 70 years in the past, you were doing
: something with tubes.
:
: You're really arithmetically-challenged, aren't you Rudy?
:
oh, 50 or 70, what's the diggerence, eh,
remember them cd's being 'round in the fifties ?
:-))
R

[Iain Churches]

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
"Iain Churches" wrote in message
.fi

Arny, I am sorry that I am unable to say that your
recordings are wonderful. They are not. In fact they are quite the
worst I think I have ever heard. But let me not be ungracious.
I do extend my sympathy. Will that do? :-)

Iain, I have made about a thousand recordings of live performances in the
past 5 years. Your comment above only makes sense if you have heard a
representative sample of them. How many of my recordings have you actually
heard?


May I make a compilation of what I have, and post a link to the
Scandinavian Classical website? It will cause considerable mirth
and Springtime jollity:-)

You are squirming and weaving, ducking and diving here
as only you know how, in a feeble attempt at a smoke screen.
The chap from the BBC is right. You are indeed all mouth and
trousers.

Happy Easter!
Iain

[Patrick Turner]

Iain Churches wrote:

"Patrick Turner" wrote in message
...

I couldn't share a workshop.

It is rare that there are more than two of us there at the same
time. And, economically it makes very good sense indeed.

I enjoy the group dynamic, and find discussion with people
with similar interests, but a totally different approach is
informative. I would feel mean having all that space to myself.

I save my talk for the net here at this group.
Shooting the breeze in the workshop is a waste of time.
And very few here are into tubes.

I own my house and workshop, and only have to pay the property and water
rates.
I don't need to share the workshop.

But in choosing a cell.mate one has to be careful. Word
got around by bush.-telegraph, we had no shortage of
applicants.

Gee, I didn't think the word efficiency could be applied to my business
at all...

:-)))

A lot of equipment that passes through is on its way too
or from e-Bay.

CD players over five years with faults are usually consigned to the
scrap bin. Studer, Quad and Denon prof machines are the exception.
Studio analogue recorders and turntables receive lots of TLC:-))

Gee, I get a constant stream of 3in1 stereos that are utter crap
but which ordinary pppl have bought for say $500 and the cd player
often is the first thing to fail. I have a tech I employ for all my SS
repairs.
He puts in a new generic laser to get a repair and they keep working.
Only rarely do we ever chuck a CD player into the bin.
But fixing this junk is like cleaning toilets, and the pay is worse.


I don't often get involved in repairs, but it is interesting to see
how the system works. Someone brings in an amp. It is checked
over to see what needs to be done, and a price is given. Any parts
not on the shelf are then ordered. The client either then takes the
amp away, or it goes into the storage area. When the parts arrive
the amp is brought to the workshop, and client informed that it is
"under anaesthetic" He can usually collect it the same day.

I find it hard to quote without doing the fix. If I had to quote without
doing the fix, the quote has to be high because you don't always know
how much time you'll spend or
what you will find after the obvious faults are found; often gear has
more than one fault,
so you have to let an item run for days sometimes to find an
intermittent fault especially.

I believe my services are cheaper to the clients than many other places
operating
out of a shop front where they must pay rent on the premises.

Real efficiency would be to chuck that 1960 crap and buy modern, but no,
they want it fixed, and for almost nothing, so i say when i get time,
there are 20 ahead of you.
So soon I have a full workshop with everyones's little sick orphan
needing a fix
and waiting for a quiet time, its never happened in the last 3 years.
Some despair, and perhaps even get a bit cranky, and I start saying well
how come you'll pay
a fooking plumber $80 per hour to fix a rotten drain pipe, but you only
wanna
pay me $2? Some grab their gear and go to some other struggling
professional artisan.
Make me a deal I can't refuse I say, and their lips are sealed.
So one reason the shed is so crammed is that a lot of stuff
is on a "long term" fix.
I don't really care anymore about spending a "quiet time" on gear that
takes many hours, and for which I get peanuts.
I don't care that i upset ppl if I won't do their hobby work for them
without pay.
There are a lot of failed hobbyists out there, gunner do this, gunner do
that, and never do anything.
About 1 in every 3 radios is not picked up after I fix them.

I wonder if you are doing too much too cheaply Patrick?

When I last worked as a carpenter/designer builder, I was cheap
at aud $30/hr in 1992. The rate is now about $70/hr, or $500 a day,
cash,
( usd $400/day,) which is $2,000 a week, or $100,000 pa, but you never
get
50 weeks of continual work in a year at that rate.

When I could not work in building due to knee troubles, i switched
to electronics, and pay became 26dB lower.

People here are happy to pay Euro100 (AUD 164) an hr
(min charge Euro 55) for prompt and reliable service at
a high standard of workmanship.

aud $164 per hour? You gotta be kidding. Nobody here gets that sort of
pay
in the repair trades.
Most ppl will pay $90/hr for a plumber to unblock a sewer pipe that's
letting sewerage
run all over the yard, or they'll pay $150 for a dental visit, but all
other things
are based on need to pay, and beating everyone down.
A house improvement costing $20,000 is OK because the cost increases the
house value,
so the espense isn't a "waste".
Fixing the old hi-fi set is an expense, and not a high priority.
If i charged more, less ppl would return to collect their gear, and I
have a pile of uncollected gear.
Nobody wants to buy it at the price of the repair.


I find tools OK, my memory is still good.

We share a lot of the metal working tools, taps, punches,
dies, reamers etc and so returning them to their proper home
is important.

And I have more than one darn screw driver and centre punch.

That's another advantage of sharing a workshop, I now have
access to metalworking and finishing machines that I could not
even dream of owning. In contrast most of the audio test gear
plus the equipment in the listening room is mine. Another guy
has contributed the four computers.

When I do have a big clean up it lasts about a week, and its time for
another.

It's a daily routine for us. 10 mins most, including the kitchen:-)

If you take only 10 minutes to clean up, you're not doing very much.

Patrick Turner.

Iain

[Patrick Turner]

Iain said to Arny Arsole......

You seem to have no interest in or knowledge of tube audio.

Arny ****ing replied....

Nonsense. I see no reason why anybody should take your opinons about tubed
audio as being meaningful.

Iain relied,

I wonder why you are here on RAT.

Arny Arsole irrelevantly replied...

I have both interest and experience with tubed audio. SS audio really didn't
start holding its own until I was about 20. I have been an audiophile since
I was about 12. Do the math.

Meaninful disscussions with Arny Arsole are impossible.

His interest in tube audio is equivalent to going around with a hammer
and smashing
all tubes where he finds them. He HATES tubes, and those who know Arny
wish he'd just **** off.

He has never ever been known for offering any positive advice about how
to build a tube amplifier.

So Arny, **** Off!!!

Patrick Turner.

[coffeedj]

I have a company with about 100 development & manufacturing people in India.

Works great once you understand the culture. It's a disaster if you go in
blind.

"Eeyore" wrote in message
...


coffeedj wrote:

The films will be taken to India for final production.

Have you ever dealt with the Indians before ? I have. Good luck to you !
You'll
need it.

Graham

[coffeedj]

Doesn't matter what your soldering iron is after 1/2 dozen resolders.

"Eeyore" wrote in message
...


coffeedj wrote:

For resoldering parts require 4 ounce Cu

Nonsense unless you use a red hot fire poker for soldering.

Graham

[Eeyore]

Arny Krueger wrote:

"Eeyore" wrote in
message
Arny Krueger wrote:

Bret Ludwig wrote:

Yes but they don't always work as well. Look at the
coil-on-plug ignitions. The coils are too small to give
a really good zap.

Agreed.

Saab direct ignition here. No problems at all.

The Milan (Mercury-badged Fusion) I've been talking about uses direct
ignition (coils directly mounted on sparkplugs) as well. The advantage is no
high voltage distributor and negligable high voltage wiring.

Indeed. Saab pioneered the concept.

My 1993 model 9000 has something similar but Saab place the coils in the 'DI
module' which sits atop the engine in the valley formed by the 2 camshafts.

DI module failures are not totally unknown but due AIUI to possible
underspeccing of the electronics since the idea was brand new at the time.

Otherwise it's simply a joy ! No HT leads and no distrubutor to go wrong or
wear. An absolutely excellent idea. Saab's Trionic engine maagement also uses
the spark plugs to measure the mixture.

Graham

[Arny Krueger]

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
. fi
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
"Iain Churches" wrote in message
.fi

Arny, I am sorry that I am unable to say that your
recordings are wonderful. They are not. In fact they
are quite the worst I think I have ever heard. But let
me not be ungracious. I do extend my sympathy. Will that do? :-)

Iain, I have made about a thousand recordings of live
performances in the past 5 years. Your comment above
only makes sense if you have heard a representative
sample of them. How many of my recordings have you
actually heard?

May I make a compilation of what I have, and post a link
to the Scandinavian Classical website? It will cause
considerable mirth and Springtime jollity:-)

Sure, and we'll take the quotient of what you have divided by the total
number of recordings to determine the validity of your sample.

You are squirming and weaving, ducking and diving here
as only you know how, in a feeble attempt at a smoke
screen.

Only in your mind, Iain. Again I challenge you - provide us with the title
of a recording that you did all by yourself from start to finish with your
own equipment, and with a venue and musicians that you personally arranged
for and paid out of your own pocket.

The bottom line Iain is that I've recorded professional musicians in good
venues and its a relatively easy recipie for sounding good. Unfortunately or
not, that's not what life doles out to me on a daily basis.

[Arny Krueger]

"Patrick Turner" wrote in message


His interest in tube audio is equivalent to going around
with a hammer and smashing
all tubes where he finds them. He HATES tubes, and those
who know Arny wish he'd just **** off.

Patrick is reality-challenged, as usual. I have tubed audio gear that I
actually prefer to use over solid state.

He has never ever been known for offering any positive
advice about how to build a tube amplifier.

This would be yet another example of Patrick talking out of the back of his
neck. I've defintately posted positive advice about building tubed amps
here, recently I posted a pointer to a schematic diagram of a tubed amp that
someone was interested in. No editorializing, just an attempt to be helpful.

[Ruud Broens]

"coffeedj" wrote in message
. ..
: I have a company with about 100 development & manufacturing people in India.
:
: Works great once you understand the culture. It's a disaster if you go in
: blind.
hmm, any change of 'm doing a 10.000 pc production run of
ceramic compactron sockets ?
i'm sure there's a market for 'm ;-)
Rudy

[Sander deWaal]

"Ruud Broens" said:


"coffeedj" wrote in message
...
: I have a company with about 100 development & manufacturing people in India.

: Works great once you understand the culture. It's a disaster if you go in
: blind.


hmm, any change of 'm doing a 10.000 pc production run of
ceramic compactron sockets ?
i'm sure there's a market for 'm ;-)


Better ask the Chinese.
Cheaper and likely better quality.

--

- Maggies are an addiction for life. -

[Patrick Turner]

coffeedj wrote:

I have a company with about 100 development & manufacturing people in India.

Works great once you understand the culture. It's a disaster if you go in
blind.


So just what are the problems?

Going in blind is what everyone has to to if you deal with someone
a long way away, and you don't know them, and they want payment in
advance.

Please explain further about disasters and blindness if you wouldn't
mind please.

Patrick Turner.



"Eeyore" wrote in message
...


coffeedj wrote:

The films will be taken to India for final production.

Have you ever dealt with the Indians before ? I have. Good luck to you !
You'll
need it.

Graham

[bassett[_2_]]

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
. ..
"Patrick Turner" wrote in message


His interest in tube audio is equivalent to going around
with a hammer and smashing
all tubes where he finds them. He HATES tubes, and those
who know Arny wish he'd just **** off.

Patrick is reality-challenged, as usual. I have tubed audio gear that I
actually prefer to use over solid state.

He has never ever been known for offering any positive
advice about how to build a tube amplifier.

This would be yet another example of Patrick talking out of the back of
his neck. I've defintately posted positive advice about building tubed
amps here, recently I posted a pointer to a schematic diagram of a tubed
amp that someone was interested in. No editorializing, just an attempt to
be helpful.


Its called, "Self-promotion"

[west]

"Claudio Bonavolta" wrote in message
ups.com...
On 2 avr, 08:53, "Iain Churches" wrote:
I am interested to have a go at making PCBs
From what I have found so far on the web,
it doesn't appear to be too difficult.

Does anyone here have actual hands-on
experience of small-scale DIY production
using a UV light box etc?

I am particularly interested to know precisely
the steps involved.

Can one get results to match a professionally
produced board?

Regards to all
Iain

Well, I suppose you don't want to make a PCB for the last generation
of computers ?
If not and if you're more looking for PCBs for tube-gear or other low-
density components then, you may consider these two pages on the
subject:
http://www.bonavolta.ch/hobby/en/audio/CI.htm
http://www.bonavolta.ch/hobby/en/audio/CI_exposure.htm

Claudio Bonavolta
http://www.bonavolta.ch

Caro Claudio,

Your name sounds Italian but you email says ch. What does "CH" mean?
Besides your web is in English & French, yet advertises Switzerland.. I know
Bona means good. Does volta mean volts? Just a morbid, curious, and confused
valve lover.

Warm Regards,
west

[Patrick Turner]

Bret Ludwig wrote:

On Apr 5, 9:44 pm, Patrick Turner wrote:
coffeedj wrote:

I have a company with about 100 development & manufacturing people in India.

Works great once you understand the culture. It's a disaster if you go in
blind.

So just what are the problems?

Going in blind is what everyone has to to if you deal with someone
a long way away, and you don't know them, and they want payment in
advance.

Please explain further about disasters and blindness if you wouldn't
mind please.


I'm not sure what he means but I know that in any country except your
own, getting anything manufactured to any sort of timely and precise
specification means having boots on the ground there. If they at least
speak a language in which you are really familiar with you have a shot
at it over the phone, but the closer the better.

I'm not big on multiculturalism.

Nobody in China can read my website details with regard to output
transformers.
I get spams form Chinese makers of gear, and after I have told them to
read the site and send me a sample for
approval, and test, I never hear from them again.

But here in Oz when I take a nicely drawn set of instructions to some
so called specialist tranny winder, they turn green then purple and have
a heart attack when they see all the
layers, sections, and taps, and hear how well i want it done.
If I want a PT done they only want to wind it their way, not mine,
and don't want to do the necessary negotiations about termination
boards, vacuum impregnation,
assembly, and other details, quality, gurrantee, etc.

If they ever did focus on the task like they used to in 1960 they'd want
a fortune for the work.
They are not interested because they only make money when the tranny
winding is done in 1Hr
and they use their own "industry standards".
They may be able to supply a standard 500VA PT for $300.
That's about 3 hours work plus $100 worth of material, and it looks like
easy money.
But commercial operators have to hire business premises, pay all those
expenses, and the
labour rate they want has to pay to keep a real business running,
so paying $70 per/hr for workshop work is not exhorbibant.
But hardly anyone is willing to do anything as a one of a kind special
and good
enough for a hi-fi component, unless the number of hours they can devote
to the item
is dramatically increased.

However some operators are good enough and do understand to be able to
stick to the
design I have worked out.

But finding such people overseas who I could trust with a good operating
email connection and who speak good english is very difficult.
Just who are attracted to the type of work i do myself?
In China, all the bright young men are working in the military, or
anywhere else
but tube amp construction; its dull boring donkey work,
and mainly dullards are ones doing such dirty menial tasks.

I sometimes think more ppl would build tube amp parts to high standards
if ppl could offer them a big enough price, but nobody wants to pay a
good price for the finished article.

Nobody offers me a nice price so I can't offer anyone else a good price
so
I have build all the metalwork and transformers in all the new amps
pictured
at my website except in a stereo amp where a guy placed the Hammond
trannies in my hands because I had so many
other orders to fulfil.

I have a large batch of precision machine made chassis. Buit no orders
to fill them with
parts for amps. Then when i get orders, its for something
not able to suit the 6 different chassis types.
I can't win. But the chassis i did get made are world class standard
equal to Quad-40 quality.
The guy here who does the metalwork becomes cheap when you order
$3,000 for a large batch, but he is way to expensive for the one-offs.
He does a lot of specialist enclosures for highy fallooting computer
gear, military contracts,
security firms, fire protection control boards, etc.
These sort of apps cannot be fulfilled by using over seas cheap labour.

If I had ppl do all the work in building amps to my design, and paid
them all fairly,
and they all could be co-ordinated, and if they all took full
responsibility for stuff ups,
and all I had to do was supervise, a 5050 stereo amp would cost $6,000
to make and take 10 years to sell....

Unless I do all the work, and for low small peanut wages, nothing gets
done.

If you set out to build one motor vehicle in your own workshop, its the
same sort of deal.

One guy I know has built an aeroplane, and it worked out fine, but if he
counted his hours,
and had someone else do all the work, it would have cost him enormously.
He worked every night for a couple of years.


Getting things done properly is the biggest difficulty in life.

Patrick Turner.

[fredbloggstwo]

Have a look in here

http://www.electricstuff.co.uk/pcbs.html

An excellent article and pointers to suppliers as well

Mie

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
. fi...
I am interested to have a go at making PCBs
From what I have found so far on the web,
it doesn't appear to be too difficult.

Does anyone here have actual hands-on
experience of small-scale DIY production
using a UV light box etc?

I am particularly interested to know precisely
the steps involved.

Can one get results to match a professionally
produced board?

Regards to all
Iain

[Iain Churches]

"fredbloggstwo" wrote in message
...
Have a look in here

http://www.electricstuff.co.uk/pcbs.html

An excellent article and pointers to suppliers as well

Mie


Many thanks indeed. Excellent info.
By the way, I recently bought a piece of audio gear from
your older brother Fredbloggs:-)

Iain