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James Price[_6_] James Price[_6_] is offline
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Default Will home recording kill commercial studios?

Do you think the rise of home studios will eventually offset
demand for professional recording services to the point that
running a commercial studio won't be a viable career path?
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Scott Dorsey Scott Dorsey is offline
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Default Will home recording kill commercial studios?

James Price wrote:
Do you think the rise of home studios will eventually offset
demand for professional recording services to the point that
running a commercial studio won't be a viable career path?


That happened some time in the mid-nineties. Did you miss it?
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
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Default Will home recording kill commercial studios?

On Tuesday, December 8, 2020 at 8:18:36 PM UTC-6, Scott Dorsey wrote:
James Price wrote:
Do you think the rise of home studios will eventually offset
demand for professional recording services to the point that
running a commercial studio won't be a viable career path?


That happened some time in the mid-nineties. Did you miss it?


If it were no longer a viable career path, recording studios would
occupy a niche market on par with typewriter repair.

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geoff geoff is offline
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Default Will home recording kill commercial studios?

On 9/12/2020 5:43 pm, James Price wrote:
On Tuesday, December 8, 2020 at 8:18:36 PM UTC-6, Scott Dorsey wrote:
James Price wrote:
Do you think the rise of home studios will eventually offset
demand for professional recording services to the point that
running a commercial studio won't be a viable career path?


That happened some time in the mid-nineties. Did you miss it?


If it were no longer a viable career path, recording studios would
occupy a niche market on par with typewriter repair.


Eventually those recording in a home or hobby environment may want a
better recording room acoustic, maybe studio instruments (ie real piano,
drums, Hammond, Leslie, etc), better and wider range of mics, expertise,
selection of misc percusiion, etc.

But many will remain happy with what they get at home.

Typewriter-repair really not a good analogy.

geoff
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John Williamson John Williamson is offline
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Default Will home recording kill commercial studios?

On 09/12/2020 07:21, geoff wrote:
On 9/12/2020 5:43 pm, James Price wrote:
If it were no longer a viable career path, recording studios would
occupy a niche market on par with typewriter repair.


Eventually those recording in a home or hobby environment may want a
better recording room acoustic, maybe studio instruments (ie real piano,
drums, Hammond, Leslie, etc), better and wider range of mics, expertise,
selection of misc percusiion, etc.

That's the market I'm aiming for with my project. A very nice sounding
room, with whatever instruments you want me to bring in. Grand piano,
percussion and pipe organ always on site.

But many will remain happy with what they get at home.

True.




--
Tciao for Now!

John.


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Don Pearce[_3_] Don Pearce[_3_] is offline
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Default Will home recording kill commercial studios?

On Wed, 9 Dec 2020 09:26:29 +0000, John Williamson
wrote:

On 09/12/2020 07:21, geoff wrote:
On 9/12/2020 5:43 pm, James Price wrote:
If it were no longer a viable career path, recording studios would
occupy a niche market on par with typewriter repair.


Eventually those recording in a home or hobby environment may want a
better recording room acoustic, maybe studio instruments (ie real piano,
drums, Hammond, Leslie, etc), better and wider range of mics, expertise,
selection of misc percusiion, etc.

That's the market I'm aiming for with my project. A very nice sounding
room, with whatever instruments you want me to bring in. Grand piano,
percussion and pipe organ always on site.

But many will remain happy with what they get at home.

True.


Nice sounding is very much out of style right now. Human voices are
required to resemble fog horns - I've even noticed kids trying to
create the sound of pathological autotune in their normal singing
voices. As for nice sounding rooms to record acoustic instruments, do
they really want that? Most of the instrumental stuff is going to live
in synths, and the room acoustic will come later. The more aware will
use impulse responses but most will be happy with synthetic reverb.

Nice acoustic spaces will be increasingly niche.

d
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Default Will home recording kill commercial studios?

On 09/12/2020 10:10, Don Pearce wrote:

Nice sounding is very much out of style right now. Human voices are
required to resemble fog horns - I've even noticed kids trying to
create the sound of pathological autotune in their normal singing
voices. As for nice sounding rooms to record acoustic instruments, do
they really want that? Most of the instrumental stuff is going to live
in synths, and the room acoustic will come later. The more aware will
use impulse responses but most will be happy with synthetic reverb.

Nice acoustic spaces will be increasingly niche.


There are a lot of choirs and small orchestras in this area, and last
time I was involved, they were all moaning about not being able to find
s decent room to rehearse and record in. It also has room to seat an
audience of up to a couple of hundred subject to getting a licence.

Either way, I'll have no debts and a secure, if small, income, so can
just about afford to run it as a hobby.

We'll see.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.
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Default Will home recording kill commercial studios?

On Wednesday, December 9, 2020 at 1:21:15 AM UTC-6 geoff wrote:
Typewriter-repair really not a good analogy.


The similarity isn't with respect to the relationship between typewriter repair
and recording studios, but rather the demand for said services respectively.
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Default Will home recording kill commercial studios?

On 10/12/2020 2:27 am, James Price wrote:
On Wednesday, December 9, 2020 at 1:21:15 AM UTC-6 geoff wrote:
Typewriter-repair really not a good analogy.


The similarity isn't with respect to the relationship between typewriter repair
and recording studios, but rather the demand for said services respectively.


Still not a good analogy. Over a dozen working studios in my small
city, and AFAIK, zero typewriter repairers (or demand for).

geoff
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Scott Dorsey Scott Dorsey is offline
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Default Will home recording kill commercial studios?

In article ,
James Price wrote:
On Tuesday, December 8, 2020 at 8:18:36 PM UTC-6, Scott Dorsey wrote:
James Price wrote:
Do you think the rise of home studios will eventually offset
demand for professional recording services to the point that
running a commercial studio won't be a viable career path?


That happened some time in the mid-nineties. Did you miss it?


If it were no longer a viable career path, recording studios would
occupy a niche market on par with typewriter repair.


No, I can actually find a typewriter repair shop.

All the full-service studios in the country are gone. The big Hit Factory
auction was basically the sign that everything changed. All the big label
studios are gone... Columbia's 30th st. studio... all the RCA studios gone.

The only studio left in the country large enough for an orchestra or a big
band is Skywalker Sound, and that's an audio-for-film shop.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."


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Default Will home recording kill commercial studios?

On Wednesday, December 9, 2020 at 1:32:37 PM UTC-6, Scott Dorsey wrote:
In article ,
James Price wrote:
On Tuesday, December 8, 2020 at 8:18:36 PM UTC-6, Scott Dorsey wrote:
James Price wrote:
Do you think the rise of home studios will eventually offset
demand for professional recording services to the point that
running a commercial studio won't be a viable career path?

That happened some time in the mid-nineties. Did you miss it?


If it were no longer a viable career path, recording studios would
occupy a niche market on par with typewriter repair.


No, I can actually find a typewriter repair shop.


And I can find a recording studio. However, the percentage of people that
still use a typewriter is trifling compared to audio equipment.

All the full-service studios in the country are gone. The big Hit Factory
auction was basically the sign that everything changed. All the big label
studios are gone... Columbia's 30th st. studio... all the RCA studios gone.

The only studio left in the country large enough for an orchestra or a big
band is Skywalker Sound, and that's an audio-for-film shop.


Okay, but there are plenty of recording studios in North America.
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On Wednesday, December 9, 2020 at 1:29:25 PM UTC-6, geoff wrote:
On 10/12/2020 2:27 am, James Price wrote:
On Wednesday, December 9, 2020 at 1:21:15 AM UTC-6 geoff wrote:
Typewriter-repair really not a good analogy.


The similarity isn't with respect to the relationship between typewriter repair
and recording studios, but rather the demand for said services respectively.

Still not a good analogy. Over a dozen working studios in my small
city, and AFAIK, zero typewriter repairers (or demand for).

geoff


That was the point.

Demand for typewriter repair is completely negligible to the point of being a
niche market that's occupationally inviable for all but an inconsequential few
and are thus not on par with recording studios.
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Default Will home recording kill commercial studios?

On Wednesday, December 9, 2020 at 1:29:25 PM UTC-6, geoff wrote:
On 10/12/2020 2:27 am, James Price wrote:
On Wednesday, December 9, 2020 at 1:21:15 AM UTC-6 geoff wrote:
Typewriter-repair really not a good analogy.


The similarity isn't with respect to the relationship between typewriter repair
and recording studios, but rather the demand for said services respectively.

Still not a good analogy. Over a dozen working studios in my small
city, and AFAIK, zero typewriter repairers (or demand for).

geoff


That was the point.

Demand for typewriter repair is completely negligible to the point of being a
niche market that's occupationally inviable for all but an inconsequential few
and is thus not on par with recording studios.
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Default Will home recording kill commercial studios?

On Wed, 9 Dec 2020 12:33:14 -0800 (PST), James Price
wrote:

On Wednesday, December 9, 2020 at 1:32:37 PM UTC-6, Scott Dorsey wrote:
In article ,
James Price wrote:
On Tuesday, December 8, 2020 at 8:18:36 PM UTC-6, Scott Dorsey wrote:
James Price wrote:
Do you think the rise of home studios will eventually offset
demand for professional recording services to the point that
running a commercial studio won't be a viable career path?

That happened some time in the mid-nineties. Did you miss it?

If it were no longer a viable career path, recording studios would
occupy a niche market on par with typewriter repair.


No, I can actually find a typewriter repair shop.


And I can find a recording studio. However, the percentage of people that
still use a typewriter is trifling compared to audio equipment.

All the full-service studios in the country are gone. The big Hit Factory
auction was basically the sign that everything changed. All the big label
studios are gone... Columbia's 30th st. studio... all the RCA studios gone.

The only studio left in the country large enough for an orchestra or a big
band is Skywalker Sound, and that's an audio-for-film shop.


Okay, but there are plenty of recording studios in North America.


The big problem here is that when you say studios, what you are really
talking about is computers. You need IT specialists, who are ten a
penny. And they don't fix stuff. If your Focusrite interface has died,
you have to buy a new one. The call for people who can strip and clean
a Penny and Giles fader is almost zero, and those who can will be on
permanent retainer to the studios that still use them.

d
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All the full-service studios in the country are gone. The big Hit Factory
auction was basically the sign that everything changed. All the big label
studios are gone... Columbia's 30th st. studio... all the RCA studios gone.

The only studio left in the country large enough for an orchestra or a big
band is Skywalker Sound, and that's an audio-for-film shop.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."


Lest you forget, Scott, right up 95 in Baltimore is Sheffield. I've done big band there, and small orchestra.


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Default Will home recording kill commercial studios?

On 12/8/2020 11:43 PM, James Price wrote:
If it were no longer a viable career path, recording studios would
occupy a niche market on par with typewriter repair.


That's exactly what they do. Most of us here think of a recording studio
as a place where music, and nothing but music, all the time, is
recorded. That's what's shrinking. Since there's still a whole lot of
music being recorded, so it must be a product of home studios of one
form or another.

There are still studios making good money recording music, but they
specialize (and have the facilities for) in recording large groups like
orchestras, bands with a lot of gear ("we use a different drum kit on
every song, sometimes two or three") and there are also mid size
professional studios that have re-purposed themselves. Instead of bands
coming in to record demos or and album, or to use the piano or drum room
or a terrific vocal mic collection, they're working with spoken word
artists for podcasts, and doing production work in that field like
editing and producing music, usually electronically.

So, sure, if you have a lot of money to start with, you can make a
little money with a professional recording studio today by providing a
quality of service and sound that most bedroom studios can't - and
therefore only do work for their owners rather than take outside, paying
clients.



--
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Default Will home recording kill commercial studios?

On Thursday, December 10, 2020 at 4:21:44 PM UTC-6, Mike Rivers wrote:
On 12/8/2020 11:43 PM, James Price wrote:
If it were no longer a viable career path, recording studios would
occupy a niche market on par with typewriter repair.

That's exactly what they do. Most of us here think of a recording studio
as a place where music, and nothing but music, all the time, is
recorded. That's what's shrinking. Since there's still a whole lot of
music being recorded, so it must be a product of home studios of one
form or another.

There are still studios making good money recording music, but they
specialize (and have the facilities for) in recording large groups like
orchestras, bands with a lot of gear ("we use a different drum kit on
every song, sometimes two or three") and there are also mid size
professional studios that have re-purposed themselves. Instead of bands
coming in to record demos or and album, or to use the piano or drum room
or a terrific vocal mic collection, they're working with spoken word
artists for podcasts, and doing production work in that field like
editing and producing music, usually electronically.

So, sure, if you have a lot of money to start with, you can make a
little money with a professional recording studio today by providing a
quality of service and sound that most bedroom studios can't - and
therefore only do work for their owners rather than take outside, paying
clients.


How much of the shift in demand would you attribute to the popularity of
home recording?
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Seems to me the typewriter repair comment derailed things (although it probably shouldn't have)...

When I studied recording in the early '90s, there were a dozen studios around downtown Chicago that allowed us in for classes. There were probably two dozen more in the same area that didn't. Of all those, the only one still standing is Chicago Recording Company. Places like Zenith dB, Paragon, Streeterville and a bunch more I don't remember the names of are just gone, and not much has taken their place. Some in-house studios at the ad agencies and maybe a couple of commercial ventures, but nothing like "the olde days."

Out in the burbs, there were a half dozen small (8-16 track, as we called them back then) studios within about a 15 minute drive from where I live. Now there are zero. Based on a Google search I just did, the closest commercial studio is about 30 minutes from me.

The Mackie 8-bus and Alesis ADAT lit the fire and DAWs collapsed the roof. The good news is the cost of entry is way cheaper than it used to be. You don't need a $100K console with Flying Faders and a 24-track machine with Dolby SR and a half dozen Neumanns anymore. The bad news is that few people are interested in paying you a living sum to operate a recording studio when they can buy their own DAW for 60 bucks and some Chinese LDCs for 75 bucks each.

Record stores may be a better analogy.

Pete
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On Thursday, December 10, 2020 at 4:56:06 PM UTC-6, wrote:

How much of the shift in demand would you attribute to the popularity of
home recording?


In my opinion, 90 percent. It's more the tech than "home recording" per se. I know a few commercial places that set up small studios with some microphones and a DAW and some foam on the walls for VO work. They would have sent that stuff out of house back in the day, but there's little point in doing so now. One session would have cost what it took to set up the room. Another place I used to work with fired the staff, sold all the gear and the building with the good studio, and moved production to a small town in Michigan, where it's overseen by a nice enough guy who has about 60 other things on his plate that have little to do with recording.

10 percent is due to the replacement of loudspeakers with earbuds. Lower standards on the listening side puts less pressure on maintaining a high standard on the recording side. That's just my take.

I'll go back to lurking now.

Pete
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On Thursday, December 10, 2020 at 5:16:25 PM UTC-6, knadles wrote:

Record stores may be a better analogy.


Vinyl record sales have been steadily increasing year after year starting
around 2010. It rebounded from $36 million in 2006 to $700 million in
2019, and in the US, 2020 unit sales are up over 17% from 2019. A large
share of vinyl purchases still happen in stores, though the virus that
shall not be named has undoubtedly slowed growth this year. So, for
the moment, the vinyl industry is viable.


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On 12/10/2020 5:56 PM, James Price wrote:
How much of the shift in demand would you attribute to the popularity of
home recording?


I wouldn't have any idea how to estimate this. Home recording has been
around for a long time.

Thing is that there's more music recording being done today than ever
before, with the big spike being home recorded music. This isn't
directly a result of the demise of the big studio, but due to the
availability of affordable gear capable, in the right hands, of making a
passable recording. People who would never have considered going to a
studio because of the cost and because they weren't "professional" yet
are recording at home.

It's taken a certain amount of business away from the professional,
commercial studio, but most of the music that's recorded today would
never be seen if the only way to record it was in a commercial studio.

--
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martymart wrote:

All the full-service studios in the country are gone. The big Hit Factory
auction was basically the sign that everything changed. All the big label
studios are gone... Columbia's 30th st. studio... all the RCA studios gone.

The only studio left in the country large enough for an orchestra or a big
band is Skywalker Sound, and that's an audio-for-film shop.


Lest you forget, Scott, right up 95 in Baltimore is Sheffield. I've done big band there, and small orchestra.


That's an educational facility... they make their money teaching classes and
sell some studio time on the side. That's a good thing, and it's one of the
ingenious ways some people have found to keep facilities open... but it is
by no means a full-service commercial studio.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
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On 11/12/2020 2:43 pm, Scott Dorsey wrote:
martymart wrote:

All the full-service studios in the country are gone. The big Hit Factory
auction was basically the sign that everything changed. All the big label
studios are gone... Columbia's 30th st. studio... all the RCA studios gone.

The only studio left in the country large enough for an orchestra or a big
band is Skywalker Sound, and that's an audio-for-film shop.


Lest you forget, Scott, right up 95 in Baltimore is Sheffield. I've done big band there, and small orchestra.


That's an educational facility... they make their money teaching classes and
sell some studio time on the side. That's a good thing, and it's one of the
ingenious ways some people have found to keep facilities open... but it is
by no means a full-service commercial studio.
--scott


Surely most 'full-service' commercial studios keep things ticking over
between significant musical recording work with audio for all sorts of
other things ?

geoff
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On Thursday, December 10, 2020 at 5:42:08 PM UTC-6, wrote:
On Thursday, December 10, 2020 at 5:16:25 PM UTC-6, knadles wrote:

Record stores may be a better analogy.

Vinyl record sales have been steadily increasing year after year starting
around 2010. It rebounded from $36 million in 2006 to $700 million in
2019, and in the US, 2020 unit sales are up over 17% from 2019. A large
share of vinyl purchases still happen in stores, though the virus that
shall not be named has undoubtedly slowed growth this year. So, for
the moment, the vinyl industry is viable.


In contrast to the past, most of those records are being sold through big box stores and online. Perhaps you're not old enough to remember when every town had at least one record store, and many had 3-4.

And don't get too blown away by those numbers. Total LPs sold by unit in 2019 was less than 19 million. Total number of LPs sold in 1980 was 465 million. 1980 sold 2,400% more LPs than 2019.

I'm really not sure what you're getting at, other than trying to be contrarian. If you want to believe there are many brick and mortar recording studios and it's still a dynamic, viable business model, invest in one. Maybe you'll get lucky.

Pete
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On 11/12/2020 15:02, knadles wrote:

I'm really not sure what you're getting at, other than trying to be contrarian. If you want to believe there are many brick and mortar recording studios and it's still a dynamic, viable business model, invest in one. Maybe you'll get lucky.

I intend to, but it will be a multi purpose space allowing performances
as well, and I reckon I'll be busy enough to pay the running costs at
least. I'm not planning on getting rich quick.

I'll leave that to the other half dozen studio owners in town, who all
seem to be doing well enough to stay in business. As the market segment
I'm aiming at is empty at the moment, I'm not competing with them.

(In the UK, city population about a quarter of a million.)


--
Tciao for Now!

John.


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knadles wrote:

The Mackie 8-bus and Alesis ADAT lit the fire and DAWs collapsed the roof. =
The good news is the cost of entry is way cheaper than it used to be. You d=
on't need a $100K console with Flying Faders and a 24-track machine with Do=
lby SR and a half dozen Neumanns anymore. The bad news is that few people a=
re interested in paying you a living sum to operate a recording studio when=
they can buy their own DAW for 60 bucks and some Chinese LDCs for 75 bucks=
each.


The cost of entry on the bottom end is way cheaper than it used to be, but
to go up a notch or two is more expensive than ever before. Good rooms are
not cheap, and when you hire a studio you're hiring a room and a mike kit
and the staff, and everything else comes free in the bargain.

In the seventies, in Honolulu there was.... No Huhu Studio... Sounds of
Hawaii.... Soundcatchers... Commercial Recording Hawaii and Audio-Media
Recording studios who were the two big guys... Alii Audio and Video...
Quenzer-Driscoll... Sea-West Studios... Studio Q on Queen Street...
Oh, and Studio Hawaii, they were the third big studio with a 24-track
machine... Griffin Studio on Kalaukaua... Century.... Cine-Pic...
Sea-West... Rendezvous Recording... Hawaii Recording Company...
Paradise Studios... Paladin Productions... MRT...

Probably a lot more but those are the ones I can remember. Three of
those were big 24-track rooms, some of them like No Huhu survived mostly
on voiceover work and radio jingles. Lots of business doing soundtracks
for tourist visitor centers and the like.

And this was not New York or LA, and it was long before there was any
Hawaiian music renaissance like there is today. These days there are a
whole lot more musicians playing out in the city and I think Blue Planet
is the only place left on the island doing commercial work with a decent
room. I think the A studio at Sounds of Hawaii is now a big garage for
a Porsche shop.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
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James Price wrote:
Vinyl record sales have been steadily increasing year after year starting
around 2010. It rebounded from $36 million in 2006 to $700 million in
2019, and in the US, 2020 unit sales are up over 17% from 2019. A large
share of vinyl purchases still happen in stores, though the virus that
shall not be named has undoubtedly slowed growth this year. So, for
the moment, the vinyl industry is viable.


Unless you want new releases, because nobody is cutting anything new
because we can't get lacquers.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
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On Friday, December 11, 2020 at 12:27:26 PM UTC-6, Scott Dorsey wrote:
James Price wrote:
Vinyl record sales have been steadily increasing year after year starting
around 2010. It rebounded from $36 million in 2006 to $700 million in
2019, and in the US, 2020 unit sales are up over 17% from 2019. A large
share of vinyl purchases still happen in stores, though the virus that
shall not be named has undoubtedly slowed growth this year. So, for
the moment, the vinyl industry is viable.


Unless you want new releases, because nobody is cutting anything new
because we can't get lacquers.


Does 2019's "When We All Fall Asleep, Where Do We Go?" by Billie Eilish
and Harry Style's "Fine Line" count?
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James Price[_6_] James Price[_6_] is offline
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Default Will home recording kill commercial studios?

On Friday, December 11, 2020 at 6:49:43 PM UTC-6, James Price wrote:
On Friday, December 11, 2020 at 12:27:26 PM UTC-6, Scott Dorsey wrote:

Unless you want new releases, because nobody is cutting anything new
because we can't get lacquers.


Does 2019's "When We All Fall Asleep, Where Do We Go?" by Billie Eilish
and Harry Style's "Fine Line" count?


There's also 2020's "Power Up" by AC/DC.
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Scott Dorsey Scott Dorsey is offline
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James Price wrote:
On Friday, December 11, 2020 at 12:27:26 PM UTC-6, Scott Dorsey wrote:
James Price wrote:
Vinyl record sales have been steadily increasing year after year starting
around 2010. It rebounded from $36 million in 2006 to $700 million in
2019, and in the US, 2020 unit sales are up over 17% from 2019. A large
share of vinyl purchases still happen in stores, though the virus that
shall not be named has undoubtedly slowed growth this year. So, for
the moment, the vinyl industry is viable.


Unless you want new releases, because nobody is cutting anything new
because we can't get lacquers.


Does 2019's "When We All Fall Asleep, Where Do We Go?" by Billie Eilish
and Harry Style's "Fine Line" count?


No. The fire was in early February 2020 some time, as I recall. Most folks
have some stock on hand but you can't keep too much because it's somewhat
perishable. I was caught with about 20 lacquers left on the shelf when it
happened. So some people are going to be doing some cutting with what they
have on-hand but when it's gone, it's gone.

A few people with existing accounts at MDC can get a few of their lacquers,
but they were severely backlogged even before the disaster.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."


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Default Will home recording kill commercial studios?

On Friday, December 11, 2020 at 7:51:02 PM UTC-6, Scott Dorsey wrote:
James Price wrote:
On Friday, December 11, 2020 at 12:27:26 PM UTC-6, Scott Dorsey wrote:
James Price wrote:
Vinyl record sales have been steadily increasing year after year starting
around 2010. It rebounded from $36 million in 2006 to $700 million in
2019, and in the US, 2020 unit sales are up over 17% from 2019. A large
share of vinyl purchases still happen in stores, though the virus that
shall not be named has undoubtedly slowed growth this year. So, for
the moment, the vinyl industry is viable.

Unless you want new releases, because nobody is cutting anything new
because we can't get lacquers.


Does 2019's "When We All Fall Asleep, Where Do We Go?" by Billie Eilish
and Harry Style's "Fine Line" count?

No. The fire was in early February 2020 some time, as I recall. Most folks
have some stock on hand but you can't keep too much because it's somewhat
perishable. I was caught with about 20 lacquers left on the shelf when it
happened. So some people are going to be doing some cutting with what they
have on-hand but when it's gone, it's gone.

A few people with existing accounts at MDC can get a few of their lacquers,
but they were severely backlogged even before the disaster.


I was perusing the following article, which seems to offer a somewhat
positive outlook on the situation.

http://www.thevinyldistrict.com/stor...-to-go-online/
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Les Cargill[_5_] Les Cargill[_5_] is offline
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Default Will home recording kill commercial studios?

Scott Dorsey wrote:
In article ,
James Price wrote:
On Tuesday, December 8, 2020 at 8:18:36 PM UTC-6, Scott Dorsey wrote:
James Price wrote:
Do you think the rise of home studios will eventually offset
demand for professional recording services to the point that
running a commercial studio won't be a viable career path?

That happened some time in the mid-nineties. Did you miss it?


If it were no longer a viable career path, recording studios would
occupy a niche market on par with typewriter repair.


No, I can actually find a typewriter repair shop.

All the full-service studios in the country are gone. The big Hit Factory
auction was basically the sign that everything changed. All the big label
studios are gone... Columbia's 30th st. studio... all the RCA studios gone.

The only studio left in the country large enough for an orchestra or a big
band is Skywalker Sound, and that's an audio-for-film shop.
--scott


This is probably far too broad to be much good, but the pattern of
acquisition of HBO Max looks like they're running on P/E money
and they're on a dash to buy everything they can. IOW, there is
no pattern. Perhaps they'd word counting Reddit posts.

Since theaters have taken a shot below the waterline, that's what's left
of the entertainment industry ( modulo some sort of renaissance ).

If I had to call it, it's the generalization of ClearChannel - create a
financial tire fire of all that remains.

At least we have YouTube.

--
Les Cargill
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Default Will home recording kill commercial studios?

Don Pearce wrote:
On Wed, 9 Dec 2020 12:33:14 -0800 (PST), James Price
wrote:

On Wednesday, December 9, 2020 at 1:32:37 PM UTC-6, Scott Dorsey wrote:
In article ,
James Price wrote:
On Tuesday, December 8, 2020 at 8:18:36 PM UTC-6, Scott Dorsey wrote:
James Price wrote:
Do you think the rise of home studios will eventually offset
demand for professional recording services to the point that
running a commercial studio won't be a viable career path?

That happened some time in the mid-nineties. Did you miss it?

If it were no longer a viable career path, recording studios would
occupy a niche market on par with typewriter repair.

No, I can actually find a typewriter repair shop.


And I can find a recording studio. However, the percentage of people that
still use a typewriter is trifling compared to audio equipment.

All the full-service studios in the country are gone. The big Hit Factory
auction was basically the sign that everything changed. All the big label
studios are gone... Columbia's 30th st. studio... all the RCA studios gone.

The only studio left in the country large enough for an orchestra or a big
band is Skywalker Sound, and that's an audio-for-film shop.


Okay, but there are plenty of recording studios in North America.


The big problem here is that when you say studios, what you are really
talking about is computers. You need IT specialists, who are ten a
penny. And they don't fix stuff. If your Focusrite interface has died,
you have to buy a new one.


So that's by design. You only get a Focusrite interface if you promise
not to try to fix them. I had broken buttons on mine; I took
the plastic out and use a crochet needle to hit the switches.

They are $500 or so. There's no reason to bother with repair. They're
disposable.

Dave Morgan had Main Street, with a Mitsu DASH and a fricking nice
big D&R. The studio didn't survive the owner. It was like driving a
Cadillac except for the window-mount A/C unit.

It'd take a lot of experimentation between those to convince me
that it was better than a $500 Focusrite, REAPER and a Waves
Gold Bundle.

The call for people who can strip and clean
a Penny and Giles fader is almost zero, and those who can will be on
permanent retainer to the studios that still use them.


I get this mental image of Pip Torrens playing Tommy Lascalles
in The Crown, where he advises the Queen on vagarities of ancient
traditions.

The only comment I have is that nothing I will ever record will sound as
good as the reference copy of "Zadok the Priest" found on YouTube.

d


--
Les Cargill
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Mike Rivers[_2_] Mike Rivers[_2_] is offline
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Default Will home recording kill commercial studios?

On 12/11/2020 11:23 PM, Les Cargill wrote:
If your Focusrite interface has died,
you have to buy a new one.


So that's by design. You only get a Focusrite interface if you promise
not to try to fix them. I had broken buttons on mine; I took
the plastic out and use a crochet needle to hit the switches.


I won't argue with success, but how did the buttons break? I don't
consider the Focusrite personal studio product line to be terribly
rugged, but, geez, how far did you have to drop it?

They are $500 or so. There's no reason to bother with repair. They're
disposable.


The manufacturers would like to thin so, but to a user who doesn't have
much money and bought the best interface he could afford, "disposable"
isn't a happy prospect.

Dave Morgan had Main Street, with a Mitsu DASH and a fricking nice
big D&R. The studio didn't survive the owner. It was like driving a
Cadillac except for the window-mount A/C unit.

It'd take a lot of experimentation between those to convince me
that it was better than a $500 Focusrite, REAPER and a Waves
Gold Bundle.


Work flow. Quality of life. Clients who feel good about analog signal
flow. The abiity to actually fix something that breaks, skip a noisy
channel and use the next one, or make a necessary or useful
modification. Stuff you can't really do on a box from Focusrite, or even
Apogee or Burl for ten times the price.

A while back I broke the carafe of the best coffee maker I had. No
original replacement available from the maker, several aftermarket
supposed replacements but when you read the fine print, the dimensions
are way off and there's no guarantee that it will work with a specific
model coffee maker.

Y'see, there's this spring loaded valve on the bottom of the filter
holder assembly that opens when you put the carafe in place (so the
coffee will flow into the carafe) and closes when you remove the carafe
(so if there's still water in the reservoir, it won't drip out. If the
carafe isn't the correct height, it won't operate that valve, or won't
even fit under it.

I modified it by removing the valve and machining a "hole reducer" to
slow the flow rate through the filter to make up for the interference
from the valve. Now I have a semi-automatic coffee maker that sends the
coffee straight to a cup rather than a carafe (one less dish to wash)
and I'm getting good coffee again. But then, how many people would just
go out and buy another coffee maker for $29 and free shipping? Everyone
but me, I expect.

I have a Mackie 24-track hard disk recorder with many fixable or
replaceable parts, and a Soundcraft analog console that now needs more
maintenance than the time is worth to me, so I'm in the market for a new
console, but the new digital consoles, for me, are all obsolete because
they don't have enough inputs to have "tape" returns.


--
For a good time, call http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com
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Default Will home recording kill commercial studios?

Mike Rivers wrote:
On 12/11/2020 11:23 PM, Les Cargill wrote:
If your Focusrite interface has died,
you have to buy a new one.


So that's by design. You only get a Focusrite interface if you promise
not to try to fix them. I had broken buttons on mine; I took
the plastic out and use a crochet needle to hit the switches.


I won't argue with success, but how did the buttons break? I don't
consider the Focusrite personal studio product line to be terribly
rugged, but, geez, how far did you have to drop it?


I transported it without a rack, and a mic stand rolled into them.

They are $500 or so. There's no reason to bother with repair. They're
disposable.


The manufacturers would like to thin so, but to a user who doesn't have
much money and bought the best interface he could afford, "disposable"
isn't a happy prospect.


Well... it's $500 and it lasts as long as lt lasts or what, %5,000 and
it lasts "forever" - long as you repair it.

Dave Morgan had Main Street, with a Mitsu DASH and a fricking nice
big D&R. The studio didn't survive the owner. It was like driving a
Cadillac except for the window-mount A/C unit.

It'd take a lot of experimentation between those to convince me
that it was better than a $500 Focusrite, REAPER and a Waves
Gold Bundle.


Work flow. Quality of life. Clients who feel good about analog signal
flow. The abiity to actually fix something that breaks, skip a noisy
channel and use the next one, or make a necessary or useful
modification. Stuff you can't really do on a box from Focusrite, or even
Apogee or Burl for ten times the price.


I don't see it that way. It looks cool, even is cool but it does not
preclude getting work done.

Just the space for a real console is kind of daunting.

A while back I broke the carafe of the best coffee maker I had. No
original replacement available from the maker, several aftermarket
supposed replacements but when you read the fine print, the dimensions
are way off and there's no guarantee that it will work with a specific
model coffee maker.

Y'see, there's this spring loaded valve on the bottom of the filter
holder assembly that opens when you put the carafe in place (so the
coffee will flow into the carafe) and closes when you remove the carafe
(so if there's still water in the reservoir, it won't drip out. If the
carafe isn't the correct height, it won't operate that valve, or won't
even fit under it.

I modified it by removing the valve and machining a "hole reducer" to
slow the flow rate through the filter to make up for the interference
from the valve. Now I have a semi-automatic coffee maker that sends the
coffee straight to a cup rather than a carafe (one less dish to wash)
and I'm getting good coffee again. But then, how many people would just
go out and buy another coffee maker for $29 and free shipping? Everyone
but me, I expect.

I have a Mackie 24-track hard disk recorder with many fixable or
replaceable parts, and a Soundcraft analog console that now needs more
maintenance than the time is worth to me, so I'm in the market for a new
console, but the new digital consoles, for me, are all obsolete because
they don't have enough inputs to have "tape" returns.



True that. It's a lot done "in the box" now.

--
Les Cargill



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On 12/12/2020 7:52 PM, Les Cargill wrote:
:

You only get a Focusrite interface if you promise
not to try to fix them. I had broken buttons on mine; I took
the plastic out and use a crochet needle to hit the switches.


Mike Rivers wrote
geez, how far did you have to drop it?


I transported it without a rack, and a mic stand rolled into them.


Sounds like plain bad luck. That'll probably never happen again. I would
have asked Focusrite for some new buttons. I don't know how people lose
knobs on their Mackie mixers (they're pretty hard to pull off) but I've
easily gotten replacements. Of course that was the "old Mackie" when
Greg was in charge. Today it might be different.

Well... it's $500 and it lasts as long as lt lasts or what, %5,000 and
it lasts "forever" - long as you repair it.


.. . . . or until it becomes obsolete and you can't do today's work with
yesteryear's hardware. There are a few holdouts like me, but there's a
lot of 5 year old used gear on eBay or Reverb that still works and most
even has all the knobs - and surprisingly for not as cheap as something
declared no longer useful ought to be.

Just the space for a real console is kind of daunting.


That's the part of the commitment to having a studio that we just don't
get nowadays. You don't need any rack space for a compressor for every
track, you don't even have very much money. And, dammit, it works as
well as the real thing once you get the hang of it. It does my heart
good when I see a $400 plug-in. But the $40 version of the same function
doesn't need to be expendable because software doesn't break, at least
not in the same way as hardware.

With my experience, I can troubleshoot and repair a console, but I can't
troubleshoot something in a computer-based system that doesn't work
right. When I was an active studio, most studios had the skill available
to keep their gear going.

Now those studios that are still in business and have moved to software
have an IT expert on staff or on call. And the solo musician with a
studio gets on a forum and asks for help, which usually involves getting
the latest version of something.

. . . the new digital consoles, for me, are all obsolete
because they don't have enough inputs to have "tape" returns


True that. It's a lot done "in the box" now.


Funny about that. You buy a mixing console, then you use your computer
as the recorder, and instead of sending tracks back to the mixer, you
mix them on the computer. The console becomes a tracking tool, and then
becomes obsolete until the next session.

--
For a good time, call http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com
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Default Will home recording kill commercial studios?

On 13/12/2020 3:16 pm, Mike Rivers wrote:


True that. It's a lot done "in the box" now.


Funny about that. You buy a mixing console, then you use your computer
as the recorder, and instead of sending tracks back to the mixer, you
mix them on the computer. The console becomes a tracking tool, and then
becomes obsolete until the next session.


Yep - most mixing desks are now used primarily as multi-channel mic/line
preamps. Gain control and low-cut button used as necessary.

Has been like that for a decade and a bit for me, with occasional
exceptions.

geoff
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geoff wrote:
On 13/12/2020 3:16 pm, Mike Rivers wrote:

True that. It's a lot done "in the box" now.


Funny about that. You buy a mixing console, then you use your computer
as the recorder, and instead of sending tracks back to the mixer, you
mix them on the computer. The console becomes a tracking tool, and then
becomes obsolete until the next session.


Yep - most mixing desks are now used primarily as multi-channel mic/line
preamps. Gain control and low-cut button used as necessary.

Has been like that for a decade and a bit for me, with occasional
exceptions.


For me it's the total opposite.... since the DAW world allows you to have
as many channels as you want, there's no need to record stems or premixes,
so I just track directly through standalone preamps. Then I use the console
for mixing down.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
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On 14/12/2020 1:50 am, Scott Dorsey wrote:
geoff wrote:
On 13/12/2020 3:16 pm, Mike Rivers wrote:

True that. It's a lot done "in the box" now.

Funny about that. You buy a mixing console, then you use your computer
as the recorder, and instead of sending tracks back to the mixer, you
mix them on the computer. The console becomes a tracking tool, and then
becomes obsolete until the next session.


Yep - most mixing desks are now used primarily as multi-channel mic/line
preamps. Gain control and low-cut button used as necessary.

Has been like that for a decade and a bit for me, with occasional
exceptions.


For me it's the total opposite.... since the DAW world allows you to have
as many channels as you want, there's no need to record stems or premixes,
so I just track directly through standalone preamps. Then I use the console
for mixing down.
--scott


A console being essentially a bunch of stand-alone preamps in one box,
for this purpose.

Recording to ...?

The main difference being your mix-down, with no editing of any other
sort, in any type of 'box' ?

geoff
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On 12/13/2020 2:34 PM, geoff wrote:
A console being essentially a bunch of stand-alone preamps in one box,
for this purpose.


Well, yes. Not of much value when all you're recording is your voice and
guitar, even if you're doing 40 tracks of overdubs. But if you're
recording a live band and need to make a few headphone mixes, it's much
faster working on a console than digging up 20 mic preamps, patching
them to a recorder, and then doing your mixes in the box.

Recording to ...?


In my case, a 24-track hard disk recorder. With a modern digital
console, the computer, via the console's USB (usually) digital output,
is the recorder. And many digital consoles have a slot for a flash
memory card or USB hard drive so you can stack up WAV files on that, and
play them back into the console for mixing.

The main difference being your mix-down, with no editing of any other
sort, in any type of 'box' ?


My hard disk recorder has a fine editor. What it doesn't have that a DAW
has is signal processing, but the mixing console has that. It's just
like working with a 24-track Studer into a vintage Neve or API console -
except that neither is either.

But that doesn't bother me. And since I've never had a recording project
that used all 24 tracks, what I have suits my needs just fine. The
problem that I have is that modern Mikey-priced digital consoles don't
have dedicated recorder returns to the channels. Generally one hole is
shared with a mic and line input, so playback from the recorder involves
some cable changing.

Furthermore, some don't have direct outputs from the preamps so there
aren't enough outputs to feed all 24 tracks of the recorder - you have
to use bus outputs, of which there are rarely more than 16, and those
are usually what you feed headphone mixes from.

But all of those inputs and outputs are what make a traditional console
expensive. For the largest customer base, it's a digital world, whether
you choose to incorporate a console or not.

--
For a good time, call http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com
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