[James Price[_6_]]

Do you think the rise of home studios will eventually offset
demand for professional recording services to the point that
running a commercial studio won't be a viable career path?

[Scott Dorsey]

James Price wrote:
Do you think the rise of home studios will eventually offset
demand for professional recording services to the point that
running a commercial studio won't be a viable career path?

That happened some time in the mid-nineties. Did you miss it?
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[James Price[_6_]]

On Tuesday, December 8, 2020 at 8:18:36 PM UTC-6, Scott Dorsey wrote:
James Price wrote:
Do you think the rise of home studios will eventually offset
demand for professional recording services to the point that
running a commercial studio won't be a viable career path?

That happened some time in the mid-nineties. Did you miss it?

If it were no longer a viable career path, recording studios would
occupy a niche market on par with typewriter repair.

[geoff]

On 9/12/2020 5:43 pm, James Price wrote:
On Tuesday, December 8, 2020 at 8:18:36 PM UTC-6, Scott Dorsey wrote:
James Price wrote:
Do you think the rise of home studios will eventually offset
demand for professional recording services to the point that
running a commercial studio won't be a viable career path?

That happened some time in the mid-nineties. Did you miss it?

If it were no longer a viable career path, recording studios would
occupy a niche market on par with typewriter repair.


Eventually those recording in a home or hobby environment may want a
better recording room acoustic, maybe studio instruments (ie real piano,
drums, Hammond, Leslie, etc), better and wider range of mics, expertise,
selection of misc percusiion, etc.

But many will remain happy with what they get at home.

Typewriter-repair really not a good analogy.

geoff

[John Williamson]

On 09/12/2020 07:21, geoff wrote:
On 9/12/2020 5:43 pm, James Price wrote:
If it were no longer a viable career path, recording studios would
occupy a niche market on par with typewriter repair.


Eventually those recording in a home or hobby environment may want a
better recording room acoustic, maybe studio instruments (ie real piano,
drums, Hammond, Leslie, etc), better and wider range of mics, expertise,
selection of misc percusiion, etc.

That's the market I'm aiming for with my project. A very nice sounding
room, with whatever instruments you want me to bring in. Grand piano,
percussion and pipe organ always on site.

But many will remain happy with what they get at home.

True.




--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[Don Pearce[_3_]]

On Wed, 9 Dec 2020 09:26:29 +0000, John Williamson
wrote:

On 09/12/2020 07:21, geoff wrote:
On 9/12/2020 5:43 pm, James Price wrote:
If it were no longer a viable career path, recording studios would
occupy a niche market on par with typewriter repair.


Eventually those recording in a home or hobby environment may want a
better recording room acoustic, maybe studio instruments (ie real piano,
drums, Hammond, Leslie, etc), better and wider range of mics, expertise,
selection of misc percusiion, etc.

That's the market I'm aiming for with my project. A very nice sounding
room, with whatever instruments you want me to bring in. Grand piano,
percussion and pipe organ always on site.

But many will remain happy with what they get at home.

True.

Nice sounding is very much out of style right now. Human voices are
required to resemble fog horns - I've even noticed kids trying to
create the sound of pathological autotune in their normal singing
voices. As for nice sounding rooms to record acoustic instruments, do
they really want that? Most of the instrumental stuff is going to live
in synths, and the room acoustic will come later. The more aware will
use impulse responses but most will be happy with synthetic reverb.

Nice acoustic spaces will be increasingly niche.

d

[James Price[_6_]]

On Wednesday, December 9, 2020 at 1:21:15 AM UTC-6 geoff wrote:
Typewriter-repair really not a good analogy.

The similarity isn't with respect to the relationship between typewriter repair
and recording studios, but rather the demand for said services respectively.

[geoff]

On 10/12/2020 2:27 am, James Price wrote:
On Wednesday, December 9, 2020 at 1:21:15 AM UTC-6 geoff wrote:
Typewriter-repair really not a good analogy.

The similarity isn't with respect to the relationship between typewriter repair
and recording studios, but rather the demand for said services respectively.


Still not a good analogy. Over a dozen working studios in my small
city, and AFAIK, zero typewriter repairers (or demand for).

geoff

[Scott Dorsey]

In article ,
James Price wrote:
On Tuesday, December 8, 2020 at 8:18:36 PM UTC-6, Scott Dorsey wrote:
James Price wrote:
Do you think the rise of home studios will eventually offset
demand for professional recording services to the point that
running a commercial studio won't be a viable career path?

That happened some time in the mid-nineties. Did you miss it?

If it were no longer a viable career path, recording studios would
occupy a niche market on par with typewriter repair.

No, I can actually find a typewriter repair shop.

All the full-service studios in the country are gone. The big Hit Factory
auction was basically the sign that everything changed. All the big label
studios are gone... Columbia's 30th st. studio... all the RCA studios gone.

The only studio left in the country large enough for an orchestra or a big
band is Skywalker Sound, and that's an audio-for-film shop.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[James Price[_6_]]

On Wednesday, December 9, 2020 at 1:32:37 PM UTC-6, Scott Dorsey wrote:
In article ,
James Price wrote:
On Tuesday, December 8, 2020 at 8:18:36 PM UTC-6, Scott Dorsey wrote:
James Price wrote:
Do you think the rise of home studios will eventually offset
demand for professional recording services to the point that
running a commercial studio won't be a viable career path?

That happened some time in the mid-nineties. Did you miss it?

If it were no longer a viable career path, recording studios would
occupy a niche market on par with typewriter repair.

No, I can actually find a typewriter repair shop.

And I can find a recording studio. However, the percentage of people that
still use a typewriter is trifling compared to audio equipment.

All the full-service studios in the country are gone. The big Hit Factory
auction was basically the sign that everything changed. All the big label
studios are gone... Columbia's 30th st. studio... all the RCA studios gone.

The only studio left in the country large enough for an orchestra or a big
band is Skywalker Sound, and that's an audio-for-film shop.

Okay, but there are plenty of recording studios in North America.

[Don Pearce[_3_]]

On Wed, 9 Dec 2020 12:33:14 -0800 (PST), James Price
wrote:

On Wednesday, December 9, 2020 at 1:32:37 PM UTC-6, Scott Dorsey wrote:
In article ,
James Price wrote:
On Tuesday, December 8, 2020 at 8:18:36 PM UTC-6, Scott Dorsey wrote:
James Price wrote:
Do you think the rise of home studios will eventually offset
demand for professional recording services to the point that
running a commercial studio won't be a viable career path?

That happened some time in the mid-nineties. Did you miss it?

If it were no longer a viable career path, recording studios would
occupy a niche market on par with typewriter repair.

No, I can actually find a typewriter repair shop.

And I can find a recording studio. However, the percentage of people that
still use a typewriter is trifling compared to audio equipment.

All the full-service studios in the country are gone. The big Hit Factory
auction was basically the sign that everything changed. All the big label
studios are gone... Columbia's 30th st. studio... all the RCA studios gone.

The only studio left in the country large enough for an orchestra or a big
band is Skywalker Sound, and that's an audio-for-film shop.

Okay, but there are plenty of recording studios in North America.

The big problem here is that when you say studios, what you are really
talking about is computers. You need IT specialists, who are ten a
penny. And they don't fix stuff. If your Focusrite interface has died,
you have to buy a new one. The call for people who can strip and clean
a Penny and Giles fader is almost zero, and those who can will be on
permanent retainer to the studios that still use them.

d

[martymart]

All the full-service studios in the country are gone. The big Hit Factory
auction was basically the sign that everything changed. All the big label
studios are gone... Columbia's 30th st. studio... all the RCA studios gone.

The only studio left in the country large enough for an orchestra or a big
band is Skywalker Sound, and that's an audio-for-film shop.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Lest you forget, Scott, right up 95 in Baltimore is Sheffield. I've done big band there, and small orchestra.

[Scott Dorsey]

martymart wrote:

All the full-service studios in the country are gone. The big Hit Factory
auction was basically the sign that everything changed. All the big label
studios are gone... Columbia's 30th st. studio... all the RCA studios gone.

The only studio left in the country large enough for an orchestra or a big
band is Skywalker Sound, and that's an audio-for-film shop.

Lest you forget, Scott, right up 95 in Baltimore is Sheffield. I've done big band there, and small orchestra.

That's an educational facility... they make their money teaching classes and
sell some studio time on the side. That's a good thing, and it's one of the
ingenious ways some people have found to keep facilities open... but it is
by no means a full-service commercial studio.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Les Cargill[_5_]]

Scott Dorsey wrote:
In article ,
James Price wrote:
On Tuesday, December 8, 2020 at 8:18:36 PM UTC-6, Scott Dorsey wrote:
James Price wrote:
Do you think the rise of home studios will eventually offset
demand for professional recording services to the point that
running a commercial studio won't be a viable career path?

That happened some time in the mid-nineties. Did you miss it?

If it were no longer a viable career path, recording studios would
occupy a niche market on par with typewriter repair.

No, I can actually find a typewriter repair shop.

All the full-service studios in the country are gone. The big Hit Factory
auction was basically the sign that everything changed. All the big label
studios are gone... Columbia's 30th st. studio... all the RCA studios gone.

The only studio left in the country large enough for an orchestra or a big
band is Skywalker Sound, and that's an audio-for-film shop.
--scott


This is probably far too broad to be much good, but the pattern of
acquisition of HBO Max looks like they're running on P/E money
and they're on a dash to buy everything they can. IOW, there is
no pattern. Perhaps they'd word counting Reddit posts.

Since theaters have taken a shot below the waterline, that's what's left
of the entertainment industry ( modulo some sort of renaissance ).

If I had to call it, it's the generalization of ClearChannel - create a
financial tire fire of all that remains.

At least we have YouTube.

--
Les Cargill

[Mike Rivers[_2_]]

On 12/8/2020 11:43 PM, James Price wrote:
If it were no longer a viable career path, recording studios would
occupy a niche market on par with typewriter repair.

That's exactly what they do. Most of us here think of a recording studio
as a place where music, and nothing but music, all the time, is
recorded. That's what's shrinking. Since there's still a whole lot of
music being recorded, so it must be a product of home studios of one
form or another.

There are still studios making good money recording music, but they
specialize (and have the facilities for) in recording large groups like
orchestras, bands with a lot of gear ("we use a different drum kit on
every song, sometimes two or three") and there are also mid size
professional studios that have re-purposed themselves. Instead of bands
coming in to record demos or and album, or to use the piano or drum room
or a terrific vocal mic collection, they're working with spoken word
artists for podcasts, and doing production work in that field like
editing and producing music, usually electronically.

So, sure, if you have a lot of money to start with, you can make a
little money with a professional recording studio today by providing a
quality of service and sound that most bedroom studios can't - and
therefore only do work for their owners rather than take outside, paying
clients.



--
For a good time, call http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com

[James Price[_6_]]

On Thursday, December 10, 2020 at 4:21:44 PM UTC-6, Mike Rivers wrote:
On 12/8/2020 11:43 PM, James Price wrote:
If it were no longer a viable career path, recording studios would
occupy a niche market on par with typewriter repair.
That's exactly what they do. Most of us here think of a recording studio
as a place where music, and nothing but music, all the time, is
recorded. That's what's shrinking. Since there's still a whole lot of
music being recorded, so it must be a product of home studios of one
form or another.

There are still studios making good money recording music, but they
specialize (and have the facilities for) in recording large groups like
orchestras, bands with a lot of gear ("we use a different drum kit on
every song, sometimes two or three") and there are also mid size
professional studios that have re-purposed themselves. Instead of bands
coming in to record demos or and album, or to use the piano or drum room
or a terrific vocal mic collection, they're working with spoken word
artists for podcasts, and doing production work in that field like
editing and producing music, usually electronically.

So, sure, if you have a lot of money to start with, you can make a
little money with a professional recording studio today by providing a
quality of service and sound that most bedroom studios can't - and
therefore only do work for their owners rather than take outside, paying
clients.

How much of the shift in demand would you attribute to the popularity of
home recording?

[knadles]

On Thursday, December 10, 2020 at 4:56:06 PM UTC-6, wrote:

How much of the shift in demand would you attribute to the popularity of
home recording?

In my opinion, 90 percent. It's more the tech than "home recording" per se. I know a few commercial places that set up small studios with some microphones and a DAW and some foam on the walls for VO work. They would have sent that stuff out of house back in the day, but there's little point in doing so now. One session would have cost what it took to set up the room. Another place I used to work with fired the staff, sold all the gear and the building with the good studio, and moved production to a small town in Michigan, where it's overseen by a nice enough guy who has about 60 other things on his plate that have little to do with recording.

10 percent is due to the replacement of loudspeakers with earbuds. Lower standards on the listening side puts less pressure on maintaining a high standard on the recording side. That's just my take.

I'll go back to lurking now.

Pete

[Mike Rivers[_2_]]

On 12/10/2020 5:56 PM, James Price wrote:
How much of the shift in demand would you attribute to the popularity of
home recording?

I wouldn't have any idea how to estimate this. Home recording has been
around for a long time.

Thing is that there's more music recording being done today than ever
before, with the big spike being home recorded music. This isn't
directly a result of the demise of the big studio, but due to the
availability of affordable gear capable, in the right hands, of making a
passable recording. People who would never have considered going to a
studio because of the cost and because they weren't "professional" yet
are recording at home.

It's taken a certain amount of business away from the professional,
commercial studio, but most of the music that's recorded today would
never be seen if the only way to record it was in a commercial studio.

--
For a good time, call http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com

[knadles]

Seems to me the typewriter repair comment derailed things (although it probably shouldn't have)...

When I studied recording in the early '90s, there were a dozen studios around downtown Chicago that allowed us in for classes. There were probably two dozen more in the same area that didn't. Of all those, the only one still standing is Chicago Recording Company. Places like Zenith dB, Paragon, Streeterville and a bunch more I don't remember the names of are just gone, and not much has taken their place. Some in-house studios at the ad agencies and maybe a couple of commercial ventures, but nothing like "the olde days."

Out in the burbs, there were a half dozen small (8-16 track, as we called them back then) studios within about a 15 minute drive from where I live. Now there are zero. Based on a Google search I just did, the closest commercial studio is about 30 minutes from me.

The Mackie 8-bus and Alesis ADAT lit the fire and DAWs collapsed the roof. The good news is the cost of entry is way cheaper than it used to be. You don't need a $100K console with Flying Faders and a 24-track machine with Dolby SR and a half dozen Neumanns anymore. The bad news is that few people are interested in paying you a living sum to operate a recording studio when they can buy their own DAW for 60 bucks and some Chinese LDCs for 75 bucks each.

Record stores may be a better analogy.

Pete

[James Price[_6_]]

On Thursday, December 10, 2020 at 5:16:25 PM UTC-6, knadles wrote:

Record stores may be a better analogy.

Vinyl record sales have been steadily increasing year after year starting
around 2010. It rebounded from $36 million in 2006 to $700 million in
2019, and in the US, 2020 unit sales are up over 17% from 2019. A large
share of vinyl purchases still happen in stores, though the virus that
shall not be named has undoubtedly slowed growth this year. So, for
the moment, the vinyl industry is viable.

[Scott Dorsey]

knadles wrote:

The Mackie 8-bus and Alesis ADAT lit the fire and DAWs collapsed the roof. =
The good news is the cost of entry is way cheaper than it used to be. You d=
on't need a $100K console with Flying Faders and a 24-track machine with Do=
lby SR and a half dozen Neumanns anymore. The bad news is that few people a=
re interested in paying you a living sum to operate a recording studio when=
they can buy their own DAW for 60 bucks and some Chinese LDCs for 75 bucks=
each.

The cost of entry on the bottom end is way cheaper than it used to be, but
to go up a notch or two is more expensive than ever before. Good rooms are
not cheap, and when you hire a studio you're hiring a room and a mike kit
and the staff, and everything else comes free in the bargain.

In the seventies, in Honolulu there was.... No Huhu Studio... Sounds of
Hawaii.... Soundcatchers... Commercial Recording Hawaii and Audio-Media
Recording studios who were the two big guys... Alii Audio and Video...
Quenzer-Driscoll... Sea-West Studios... Studio Q on Queen Street...
Oh, and Studio Hawaii, they were the third big studio with a 24-track
machine... Griffin Studio on Kalaukaua... Century.... Cine-Pic...
Sea-West... Rendezvous Recording... Hawaii Recording Company...
Paradise Studios... Paladin Productions... MRT...

Probably a lot more but those are the ones I can remember. Three of
those were big 24-track rooms, some of them like No Huhu survived mostly
on voiceover work and radio jingles. Lots of business doing soundtracks
for tourist visitor centers and the like.

And this was not New York or LA, and it was long before there was any
Hawaiian music renaissance like there is today. These days there are a
whole lot more musicians playing out in the city and I think Blue Planet
is the only place left on the island doing commercial work with a decent
room. I think the A studio at Sounds of Hawaii is now a big garage for
a Porsche shop.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[DarseZ Szabo]

There are degrees of niche-ness, an industry can become comparatively
niche without having to go to the extreme of typewriter repair.

Large full serve studios will continue to exist for specific purposes,
like large film sound stages. But they simply don't exist to the degree
they used to, either for clients or as places of employment.



On 2020-12-08 11:43 p.m., James Price wrote:
On Tuesday, December 8, 2020 at 8:18:36 PM UTC-6, Scott Dorsey wrote:
James Price wrote:
Do you think the rise of home studios will eventually offset
demand for professional recording services to the point that
running a commercial studio won't be a viable career path?

That happened some time in the mid-nineties. Did you miss it?

If it were no longer a viable career path, recording studios would
occupy a niche market on par with typewriter repair.