Question: Would using DENECKE
AD-20 MICROPHONE PREAMPLIFIER AND A/D CONVERTER be a good move ,I dislike
the Aphex 107 preamp I use and the converters that my Tascam DA-P1 and SB
Audigy 2 already have ?



Question:Is there a good MICROPHONE PREAMPLIFIER AND A/D CONVERTER with
Phantom power that I could use with both the Tascam DA-P1 , Nagra and the PC



Question: Can I turn off the converters when using the Nagra with such a
device?



Question: Should I just spend the money on getting phantom power and the
right preamps for the Nagra and just get a converter?



I need to be very mobile with the DAT /Nagra .We're recording classical
music at different locations.



--
thank you
Ed Bridge
Brooklyn N.Y.
www.bridgeclassicalguitars.com

Edward Bridge wrote:

Question: Would using DENECKE AD-20 MICROPHONE PREAMPLIFIER
AND A/D CONVERTER be a good move,

Dunno.

I dislike the Aphex 107 preamp I use and the converters
that my Tascam DA-P1 and SB Audigy 2 already have?

Aha.

Question:Is there a good MICROPHONE PREAMPLIFIER AND A/D
CONVERTER with Phantom power that I could use with both
the Tascam DA-P1, Nagra and the PC

Which Nagra, analog?

Midiman Duo could be the only product that fits the description. It is
for you to decide whether you like the sonic results.

Question: Can I turn off the converters when using the
Nagra with such a device?

Insufficient information.

Question: Should I just spend the money on getting phantom
power and the right preamps for the Nagra and just get
a converter?

IF an analog Nagra, then I'd set it aside for playback only, but you do
indeed need to get better digital than what you have to also get better
sound. Just opinion, not flamebait.

I need to be very mobile with the DAT/Nagra. We're recording
classical music at different locations.

Fostex FR2 is in my opinion somewhat better than the DA-p1 out of the
box and indeed very mobile, overall it may or may not meet your
requirements. I don't know how an unmodified one compares with an
unmodified Midiman Duo or Quattro, I have however heard an unmodified
Duo and it is fairly nice. There are better stuff, there almost always
are, but it is also a matter of functionality and cost combined.

Ed Bridge


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

--
*******************************************
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
*******************************************

In article .net writes:

Question: Would using DENECKE
AD-20 MICROPHONE PREAMPLIFIER AND A/D CONVERTER be a good move ,I dislike
the Aphex 107 preamp I use and the converters that my Tascam DA-P1 and SB
Audigy 2 already have ?

It's probably better than both of those, both the preamp and A/D
converter sections. However it's 20 bits and there's no dithering
option, so going into your DA-P1 will result in truncation which,
depending on the program material, may produce artifacts that you
won't like. If you use it in the field, with all the associated
ambient noises of field recording, this won't be a problem.

Question:Is there a good MICROPHONE PREAMPLIFIER AND A/D CONVERTER with
Phantom power that I could use with both the Tascam DA-P1 , Nagra and the PC

I have been in search of such to use as a companion with my Nomad
Jukebox 3, and still haven't found what I want at a cost that I'm
willing to pay. The Core Sound mic preamp works well but I didn't care
for the ergonomics (wires coming out in all directions when it's
connected) and while I don't feel that it's price ($500) is out of
line for what it does, I have a hard time justifying spending that
much money on the front end of a $200 recorder that I only use for
casual work. Unless you have plenty of disposable money, I would
think you'd have the same reservations about upgrading the DA-P1. It
won't last forever, DAT tape is getting a bit hard to find, and its
next failure may be its last. I have a DA-P20 (its predecessor) which
has a transport problem and TASCAM can no longer repair it because
they don't have the necessary parts.

What Nagra do you have? A digital one? I can't imagine that it doesn't
have a great A/D converter. Nagra mic preamps are just fine. I can see
wanting to improve the front end of a DA-P1, but what's wrong with
your Nagra that you want to improve?

Question: Can I turn off the converters when using the Nagra with such a
device?

You can't turn them off, but the Denecke In Box has both analog and
digital outputs. You can use the analog outputs (mic preamp) with your
Nagra with the appropriate cable, but I don't quite see the point
unless your Nagra's mic inputs are broken.

Question: Should I just spend the money on getting phantom power and the
right preamps for the Nagra and just get a converter?

You must have an oddball Nagra. Is it an SN?

I need to be very mobile with the DAT /Nagra .We're recording classical
music at different locations.

You really should check out what Telarc does. They're very mobile and
record classical music at different locations, but they carry a
carload of gear. That's how they do a good job.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

Edward Bridge wrote:

Would using DENECKE AD-20 MICROPHONE PREAMPLIFIER AND A/D CONVERTER be
a good move ,I dislike the Aphex 107 preamp I use and the converters
that my Tascam DA-P1 and SB Audigy 2 already have ?

The Denecke preamp/converter is useful primarily when a highly portable
device is needed. It is of generally very good quality but doesn't
represent the latest converter technology any more, plus its minimalist
design has several significant drawbacks for more general use.

One is that there is no form of level indication whatsoever; you can
drive the preamp and/or the converters into severe overload without any
outward sign from the unit; you need to monitor the record levels through
some other device (e.g. your DAT machine). Another is the tiny, fiddly,
uncalibrated pots that control the input levels. The third is the lack
of phantom powering although that can be added with an outboard supply.

Note that unlike most other transformerless preamps, the AD-20 doesn't
DC block via capacitors at its inputs, and will go into muting if phantom
powering is applied to them. Denecke's own phantom supplies, as well as
those from some other manufacturers (e.g. Neumann) block this DC from
their own outputs, so they're safe for use with the AD-20, but any type
of phantom power supply that lets the DC appear at its own outputs can't
be used. (I learned this the hard way ...)

Finally if one does power the AD-20 with a 9-Volt battery, watch the
low battery indicator carefully since the circuit becomes quite noisy
when the supply voltage drops below a certain threshold. (I learned
this, too, the hard way ...)


Question:Is there a good MICROPHONE PREAMPLIFIER AND A/D CONVERTER
with Phantom power that I could use with both the Tascam DA-P1, Nagra
and the PC

The Grace Lunatec V3 and Apogee "MiniMe" are two such units which are
highly portable and can be battery operated; Millenia Media offers A/D
converters as an option in their AC-powered, rack-mountable HV-3D preamp.

MindPrint makes (or made?) a small combination preamp and A/D converter
called the "DI-Port" but its phantom powering is poorly implemented. I
bought one and tried to test it; the power supply collapsed and put out
a puff of smoke. They have no distributor in the U.S., so repair or
replacement was very slow and took a lot of letter writing. I sold the
replacement unit without bothering to evaluate the rest of it.

I use the Grace V3 for most location recording these days because of its
size and weight advantage; this isn't a reflection on its sound quality
which I find transparent enough not to worry about; beyond that I don't
have an opinion about whether it is better or worse or different or the
same as the Millenia, which I also have (without the converter option,
but rack mounted together with an Apogee in a portable case).


Question: Can I turn off the converters when using the Nagra with
such a device?

Generally, I believe you can--that is certainly true with the Grace V3.
Apogee posts a PDF of their user manual on line on their Web site, so
you can get that answer there (it's wise to download the manual and
read it before buying almost anything anyway).


Question: Should I just spend the money on getting phantom power and
the right preamps for the Nagra and just get a converter?

I take it that this is a model of Nagra for which the preamps and the
phantom powering are optional? Nagra options can be very expensive;
that might explain your question. But they're also very good preamps
(at least if you don't overload them with signals from high-output,
transformerless condenser microphones).

Your questions have many simultaneous variables in them. Only you can
balance the issues of price, weight, size, ease of use, and fitness for
use with the microphones that you've got now or might use in the future.

--best regards

"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
news:znr1087820080k@trad...
It's probably better than both of those, both the preamp and A/D
converter sections. However it's 20 bits and there's no dithering
option, so going into your DA-P1 will result in truncation which,
depending on the program material, may produce artifacts that you
won't like. If you use it in the field, with all the associated
ambient noises of field recording, this won't be a problem.

dig, that's how we'll be using it.large rooms in brookyn n.y.


What Nagra do you have? A digital one?

no I wish , I'm sorry I forgot to say it's a old dog . . IV-L

.. I can see
wanting to improve the front end of a DA-P1,

so besides the bad preamps in the Dat the converters are or bad ?

but what's wrong with
your Nagra that you want to improve?

Mono , no Phantom power . .



Question: Should I just spend the money on getting phantom power and the
right preamps for the Nagra and just get a converter?

You must have an oddball Nagra. Is it an SN?

I do it's a IV-L

You really should check out what Telarc does. They're very mobile and
record classical music at different locations, but they carry a
carload of gear. That's how they do a good job.

I'll do that and THANKYOU !
Ed

"David Satz" wrote in message
om...
Edward Bridge wrote:

The Grace Lunatec V3 and Apogee "MiniMe" are two such units which are
highly portable and can be battery operated; Millenia Media offers A/D
converters as an option in their AC-powered, rack-mountable HV-3D preamp.
Okay!
I use the Grace V3 for most location recording these days because of its
size and weight advantage; this isn't a reflection on its sound quality
which I find transparent enough not to worry about; beyond that I don't
have an opinion about whether it is better or worse or different or the
same as the Millenia, which I also have (without the converter option,
but rack mounted together with an Apogee in a portable case).

Question: Should I just spend the money on getting phantom power and
the right preamps for the Nagra and just get a converter?

I take it that this is a model of Nagra for which the preamps and the
phantom powering are optional?

Good preamps but for dynamic microphones



Your questions have many simultaneous variables in them. Only you can
balance the issues of price, weight, size, ease of use, and fitness for
use with the microphones that you've got now or might use in the future.

Your right and I want to get one piece that we can use for both PC ,dat and
Nagra IV-L

The Nagra sounds good even if I'm using bad gear around it.

Thank you
Ed

--
Peace,
Ed Bridge
Brooklyn N.Y.
www.bridgeclassicalguitars.com

-- "Peter Larsen" wrote in message
...

Which Nagra, analog?

Midiman Duo could be the only product that fits the description. It is
for you to decide whether you like the sonic results.


I'll look into it. thank you.

Edward Bridge wrote:

What Nagra do you have? A digital one?

no I wish , I'm sorry I forgot to say it's a old dog . . IV-L


but what's wrong with your Nagra that you want to improve?

Mono , no Phantom power . .

http://www.sounddevices.com/products/mp1master.htm

Edward Bridge wrote:

"David Satz" wrote in message
om...

I take it that this is a model of Nagra for which the preamps and the
phantom powering are optional?

Good preamps but for dynamic microphones

So why not just add a phantom power box and use the existing preamp?

"Kurt Albershardt" wrote in message
...
Edward Bridge wrote:

"David Satz" wrote in message
om...

I take it that this is a model of Nagra for which the preamps and the
phantom powering are optional?

Good preamps but for dynamic microphones

So why not just add a phantom power box and use the existing preamp?

Install phantom power box into the Nagra ? Will it still be able to use the
same preamps?

Ed

In article et writes:

so besides the bad preamps in the Dat the converters are or bad ?

So-so. The greatest differece you'd get by using an alternate preamp
is how the preamp loads the mic, which of course depends on the mic.
Without hearing your recordings, I'd suspect that unless you just
don't have enough gain, bypassing the preamp and A/D converter in your
DA-P1 wouldn't make an earth-shattering difference.

but what's wrong with
your Nagra that you want to improve?

Mono , no Phantom power . .

I guess they must have made IV-L's with and without phantom power. I'm
pretty sure that the ones I've used have had phantom power, but it was
long enough ago that I didn't have any mics to use with it that
required power. You can get an external phantom power supply quite
inexpensively and the preamp should be fine. But I can't assure you
that it will be that simple because I don't know if the non-power IV-L
has a transformer balanced input. That matters because some external
phantom power supplies expect that neither of the two hot mic leads
will be tied to ground.

Nothing you can do about the mono, though, other than to learn to love
it.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
news:znr1087848684k@trad...

In article et
writes:


So-so. The greatest differece you'd get by using an alternate preamp
is how the preamp loads the mic, which of course depends on the mic.
Without hearing your recordings, I'd suspect that unless you just
don't have enough gain, bypassing the preamp and A/D converter in your
DA-P1 wouldn't make an earth-shattering difference.

I hate to ask this but the Converters better on the Tascam Da-20mkII ( I
have one) then on the DA-P1 or is it all the same crap.

I know Scot said , "get a good preamp and converter and any old dat." to do
classcial on location. I guess I should get gear in pieces so I can use
different things for different jobs. In two weeks we'll have a place to
record for two weeks so it's time.



but what's wrong with
your Nagra that you want to improve?

Mono , no Phantom power . .

I
You can get an external phantom power supply quite
inexpensively and the preamp should be fine.

Before I buy..how's Studio Projects tube preamp . My wife has one maybe I
can steal that (she nevers use it) and buy a matching one for the other
mic.


Nothing you can do about the mono, though, other than to learn to love
it.

That's the easy part.

Thank you
Ed

In article . net writes:

I hate to ask this but the Converters better on the Tascam Da-20mkII ( I
have one) then on the DA-P1 or is it all the same crap.

None of it is crap, but each generation (at roughly the same price
point) is better than the previous generation. I don't nkow how the
DA-P1 and DA-20/II compare. Probably no great difference.

Understand that changing converters won't be like day-and-night unless
you have a really good recording situation, and even then it will be a
noticable improvement. Of course some people consider that any
noticiable change is "dramatic." I happen to think that most people
have had "good enough" for quite some time now.

I know Scot said , "get a good preamp and converter and any old dat." to do
classcial on location. I guess I should get gear in pieces so I can use
different things for different jobs.

The system approach is always best so you can mix-and-match the tools
to the job. But you may find that you start to match the job to what
you determine are the best tools you have.

Before I buy..how's Studio Projects tube preamp . My wife has one maybe I
can steal that (she nevers use it) and buy a matching one for the other
mic.

Try it and listen. When you're set up to record a project in stereo,
put up the next best mic you have and connect it to your Nagra through
the SP preamp, then compare your recordings. I don't have one, but
there are many around here who think highly of it. I figure that
anything that provides gain and a tube for that little money is bound
to be useful some time.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

Edward Bridge wrote:

Install phantom power box into the Nagra ? Will it still be able to
use the same preamps?

I think Kurt was suggesting an outboard phantom power supply. You could
then use the built-in preamps that you have.

There would definitely be a problem with input overload, since condenser
microphones are typically 15 - 20 dB more sensitive than dynamic mikes.
You would need to pad down the output of the power supply with a balanced,
resistive pad. But that type of attenuation reduces the noise output of
the microphone by the same amount as it reduces the signal output, so
there is no loss of net signal-to-noise ratio.

Don't put the pads between the microphones and the power supply (though
they will still work); place them directly at the microphone inputs to
the recorder, so that the signal in the cable is still at the higher
level, for best resistance to interference.

Nagra preamps have input transformers, so any DC blocking capacitors at
the output of the phantom power supply should be bypassed unless the
input winding of the transformer has a grounded center tap (which I don't
believe that it does).

Edward Bridge wrote:

Install phantom power box into the Nagra ? Will it still be able to
use the same preamps?

I think Kurt was suggesting an outboard phantom power supply. You could
then use the built-in preamps that you have.

There would definitely be a problem with input overload, since condenser
microphones are typically 15 - 20 dB more sensitive than dynamic mikes.
You would need to pad down the output of the power supply with a balanced,
resistive pad. But that type of attenuation reduces the noise output of
the microphone by the same amount as it reduces the signal output, so
there is no loss of net signal-to-noise ratio.

Don't put the pads between the microphones and the power supply (though
they will still work); place them directly at the microphone inputs to
the recorder, so that the signal in the cable is still at the higher
level, for best resistance to interference.

Nagra preamps have input transformers, so any DC blocking capacitors at
the output of the phantom power supply should be bypassed unless the
input winding of the transformer has a grounded center tap (which I don't
believe that it does).

Edward Bridge wrote:

Question: Would using DENECKE
AD-20 MICROPHONE PREAMPLIFIER AND A/D CONVERTER be a good move ,I dislike
the Aphex 107 preamp I use and the converters that my Tascam DA-P1 and SB
Audigy 2 already have ?

I tried one, and it was okay. Preamp was kind of noisy, but if you need
something that small, it'll do the job.

Question:Is there a good MICROPHONE PREAMPLIFIER AND A/D CONVERTER with
Phantom power that I could use with both the Tascam DA-P1 , Nagra and the PC

Nothing anywhere near as small as the Denecke. If you need a concealed
body pack for film work, the Denecke is the way to go.

Otherwise, there are offerings all over the place. The Apogee is probably
a good midrange place to start looking.

Question: Can I turn off the converters when using the Nagra with such a
device?

Not the Denecke, but most of these combination devices have mike preamps
that are WAY worse than the Nagra preamps anyway. The Nagra preamps will
beat out most of the stuff even in the AD-1000 range.

Question: Should I just spend the money on getting phantom power and the
right preamps for the Nagra and just get a converter?

Well, a phantom power box from AKG or AT or Stewart will set you back
$50. I don't see that as spending a huge amount of money.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Edward Bridge wrote:

Question: Would using DENECKE
AD-20 MICROPHONE PREAMPLIFIER AND A/D CONVERTER be a good move ,I dislike
the Aphex 107 preamp I use and the converters that my Tascam DA-P1 and SB
Audigy 2 already have ?

I tried one, and it was okay. Preamp was kind of noisy, but if you need
something that small, it'll do the job.

Question:Is there a good MICROPHONE PREAMPLIFIER AND A/D CONVERTER with
Phantom power that I could use with both the Tascam DA-P1 , Nagra and the PC

Nothing anywhere near as small as the Denecke. If you need a concealed
body pack for film work, the Denecke is the way to go.

Otherwise, there are offerings all over the place. The Apogee is probably
a good midrange place to start looking.

Question: Can I turn off the converters when using the Nagra with such a
device?

Not the Denecke, but most of these combination devices have mike preamps
that are WAY worse than the Nagra preamps anyway. The Nagra preamps will
beat out most of the stuff even in the AD-1000 range.

Question: Should I just spend the money on getting phantom power and the
right preamps for the Nagra and just get a converter?

Well, a phantom power box from AKG or AT or Stewart will set you back
$50. I don't see that as spending a huge amount of money.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
wrote:
Not the Denecke, but most of these combination devices have mike preamps
that are WAY worse than the Nagra preamps anyway. The Nagra preamps will
beat out most of the stuff even in the AD-1000 range.

Good no need to buy preamp.. .Does "AD-1000 " mean audio device in the
$1000.00 range ? . . .sorry I'm still a rookie.

Well, a phantom power box from AKG or AT or Stewart will set you back
$50. I don't see that as spending a huge amount of money.


Will do today.

Thank you
Ed


--
Peace,
Ed Bridge
Brooklyn N.Y.
www.bridgeclassicalguitars.com

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
wrote:
Not the Denecke, but most of these combination devices have mike preamps
that are WAY worse than the Nagra preamps anyway. The Nagra preamps will
beat out most of the stuff even in the AD-1000 range.

Good no need to buy preamp.. .Does "AD-1000 " mean audio device in the
$1000.00 range ? . . .sorry I'm still a rookie.

Well, a phantom power box from AKG or AT or Stewart will set you back
$50. I don't see that as spending a huge amount of money.


Will do today.

Thank you
Ed


--
Peace,
Ed Bridge
Brooklyn N.Y.
www.bridgeclassicalguitars.com

"David Satz" wrote in message
om...

I think Kurt was suggesting an outboard phantom power supply. You could
then use the built-in preamps that you have.

Will do .


There would definitely be a problem with input overload, since condenser
microphones are typically 15 - 20 dB more sensitive than dynamic mikes.
You would need to pad down the output of the power supply with a balanced,
resistive pad. But that type of attenuation reduces the noise output of
the microphone by the same amount as it reduces the signal output, so
there is no loss of net signal-to-noise ratio.
YES, THAT"S IT. . . . . Last night I even kept levels low and I still I
had problems when Kirsti sing those high c's .

Don't put the pads between the microphones and the power supply (though
they will still work); place them directly at the microphone inputs to
the recorder, so that the signal in the cable is still at the higher
level, for best resistance to interference.

As soon as I'm done giving guitar lessons today I'll try flipping the pads
on my CAD . Why did'nt I think of that? I did'nt see the levels go crazy
but I could hear it. .

Thank you

Peace,
Ed Bridge
Brooklyn N.Y.
www.bridgeclassicalguitars.com

"David Satz" wrote in message
om...

I think Kurt was suggesting an outboard phantom power supply. You could
then use the built-in preamps that you have.

Will do .


There would definitely be a problem with input overload, since condenser
microphones are typically 15 - 20 dB more sensitive than dynamic mikes.
You would need to pad down the output of the power supply with a balanced,
resistive pad. But that type of attenuation reduces the noise output of
the microphone by the same amount as it reduces the signal output, so
there is no loss of net signal-to-noise ratio.
YES, THAT"S IT. . . . . Last night I even kept levels low and I still I
had problems when Kirsti sing those high c's .

Don't put the pads between the microphones and the power supply (though
they will still work); place them directly at the microphone inputs to
the recorder, so that the signal in the cable is still at the higher
level, for best resistance to interference.

As soon as I'm done giving guitar lessons today I'll try flipping the pads
on my CAD . Why did'nt I think of that? I did'nt see the levels go crazy
but I could hear it. .

Thank you

Peace,
Ed Bridge
Brooklyn N.Y.
www.bridgeclassicalguitars.com

Edward Bridge wrote:
"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
wrote:
Not the Denecke, but most of these combination devices have mike preamps
that are WAY worse than the Nagra preamps anyway. The Nagra preamps will
beat out most of the stuff even in the AD-1000 range.

Good no need to buy preamp.. .Does "AD-1000 " mean audio device in the
$1000.00 range ? . . .sorry I'm still a rookie.

The Apogee AD-1000 is a combination preamp and A/D converter. The preamp
section is okay. The converter section is better than okay but not
astounding. A decade ago it was one of the best you could get, today
it's a respectable cheapie.

Well, a phantom power box from AKG or AT or Stewart will set you back
$50. I don't see that as spending a huge amount of money.


Will do today.

You can also just put five 9V batteries and a couple resistors in a box
to power the things, if you prefer. Probably more money than a commercial
unit once you include the costs of a nice diecast box and the XLR connectors.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Edward Bridge wrote:
"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
wrote:
Not the Denecke, but most of these combination devices have mike preamps
that are WAY worse than the Nagra preamps anyway. The Nagra preamps will
beat out most of the stuff even in the AD-1000 range.

Good no need to buy preamp.. .Does "AD-1000 " mean audio device in the
$1000.00 range ? . . .sorry I'm still a rookie.

The Apogee AD-1000 is a combination preamp and A/D converter. The preamp
section is okay. The converter section is better than okay but not
astounding. A decade ago it was one of the best you could get, today
it's a respectable cheapie.

Well, a phantom power box from AKG or AT or Stewart will set you back
$50. I don't see that as spending a huge amount of money.


Will do today.

You can also just put five 9V batteries and a couple resistors in a box
to power the things, if you prefer. Probably more money than a commercial
unit once you include the costs of a nice diecast box and the XLR connectors.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

In article . net writes:

Good no need to buy preamp.. .Does "AD-1000 " mean audio device in the
$1000.00 range ? . . .sorry I'm still a rookie.

Sort of, about ten years or so ago. Apogee Digital Model AD-1000
analog-to-digital converter with mic preamp (optional, I think).


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

In article . net writes:

Good no need to buy preamp.. .Does "AD-1000 " mean audio device in the
$1000.00 range ? . . .sorry I'm still a rookie.

Sort of, about ten years or so ago. Apogee Digital Model AD-1000
analog-to-digital converter with mic preamp (optional, I think).


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

Edward Bridge wrote:

YES, THAT"S IT. . . . . Last night I even kept levels low and I still I
had problems when Kirsti sing those high c's .

That's a frequent symptom of first-stage overload. The modulometer on
the Nagra is reading the signal strength in the record amplifier, but
the clipping is occurring in the microphone input well before the signal
ever gets to the record amplifier.


Don't put the pads between the microphones and the power supply (though
they will still work); place them directly at the microphone inputs to
the recorder, so that the signal in the cable is still at the higher
level, for best resistance to interference.

As soon as I'm done giving guitar lessons today I'll try flipping the pads
on my CAD . Why did'nt I think of that? I did'nt see the levels go crazy
but I could hear it. .

That may well get you through the session without clipping, and of course
that's an improvement, but in other respects it's not a very good solution.

The pads on most condenser microphones reduce the signals at the very
worst place possible--at the input to the microphone's own electronics.
The noise level at that point is a physically-determined constant so
padding down the input to the microphone's circuitry means that the
noise will remain the same while the signal level drops 10 dB or so.
Thus that should be done only if the sound levels are so high that the
microphone's own electronics are being driven into distortion--otherwise
you will, in effect, be adding 10 dB of noise to the microphone's signal
before you even send it down the cable. Any hum or buzz that's being
picked up will seem 10 dB louder by the time you jack the gain up in
your recorder--as will also be the fixed level of FET or tube noise.

Your problem is most likely a different one: your microphone is probably
just fine but your preamp can't handle the high signal levels (voltages)
that the microphone is putting out. That calls for a different solution,
which is an in-line resistive pad directly at the microphone input. You
should go for that as soon as you can. I see that you live in Brooklyn
(I'm in Park Slope)--you can get perfectly reasonable quality pads at
Sam Ash Pro in Manhattan; they have tons of them in stock all the time.

Edward Bridge wrote:

YES, THAT"S IT. . . . . Last night I even kept levels low and I still I
had problems when Kirsti sing those high c's .

That's a frequent symptom of first-stage overload. The modulometer on
the Nagra is reading the signal strength in the record amplifier, but
the clipping is occurring in the microphone input well before the signal
ever gets to the record amplifier.


Don't put the pads between the microphones and the power supply (though
they will still work); place them directly at the microphone inputs to
the recorder, so that the signal in the cable is still at the higher
level, for best resistance to interference.

As soon as I'm done giving guitar lessons today I'll try flipping the pads
on my CAD . Why did'nt I think of that? I did'nt see the levels go crazy
but I could hear it. .

That may well get you through the session without clipping, and of course
that's an improvement, but in other respects it's not a very good solution.

The pads on most condenser microphones reduce the signals at the very
worst place possible--at the input to the microphone's own electronics.
The noise level at that point is a physically-determined constant so
padding down the input to the microphone's circuitry means that the
noise will remain the same while the signal level drops 10 dB or so.
Thus that should be done only if the sound levels are so high that the
microphone's own electronics are being driven into distortion--otherwise
you will, in effect, be adding 10 dB of noise to the microphone's signal
before you even send it down the cable. Any hum or buzz that's being
picked up will seem 10 dB louder by the time you jack the gain up in
your recorder--as will also be the fixed level of FET or tube noise.

Your problem is most likely a different one: your microphone is probably
just fine but your preamp can't handle the high signal levels (voltages)
that the microphone is putting out. That calls for a different solution,
which is an in-line resistive pad directly at the microphone input. You
should go for that as soon as you can. I see that you live in Brooklyn
(I'm in Park Slope)--you can get perfectly reasonable quality pads at
Sam Ash Pro in Manhattan; they have tons of them in stock all the time.

"David Satz" wrote in message
om...
..
The pads on most condenser microphones reduce the signals at the very
worst place possible--at the input to the microphone's own electronics.

I have Cad 100's from 5 years ago, I'll have to look into if they do that, I
'm sure they do knowing my luck HA.


(I'm in Park Slope)--you can get perfectly reasonable quality pads at
Sam Ash Pro in Manhattan; they have tons of them in stock all the time.
.. I check out the in-line resistive pad at Sam Ash .. . We're in the Slope
too


Thank you for your help!
Ed
--
Peace,
Ed Bridge
Brooklyn N.Y.
www.bridgeclassicalguitars.com

"David Satz" wrote in message
om...
..
The pads on most condenser microphones reduce the signals at the very
worst place possible--at the input to the microphone's own electronics.

I have Cad 100's from 5 years ago, I'll have to look into if they do that, I
'm sure they do knowing my luck HA.


(I'm in Park Slope)--you can get perfectly reasonable quality pads at
Sam Ash Pro in Manhattan; they have tons of them in stock all the time.
.. I check out the in-line resistive pad at Sam Ash .. . We're in the Slope
too


Thank you for your help!
Ed
--
Peace,
Ed Bridge
Brooklyn N.Y.
www.bridgeclassicalguitars.com

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message Will do today.

You can also just put five 9V batteries and a couple resistors in a box
to power the things, if you prefer. Probably more money than a commercial
unit once you include the costs of a nice diecast box and the XLR
connectors.
That's no good , my kids will steal the 9V batteries for some toy !
I'll buy :)

Thank you
Ed

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message Will do today.

You can also just put five 9V batteries and a couple resistors in a box
to power the things, if you prefer. Probably more money than a commercial
unit once you include the costs of a nice diecast box and the XLR
connectors.
That's no good , my kids will steal the 9V batteries for some toy !
I'll buy :)

Thank you
Ed

Edward Bridge wrote:

Question: Would using DENECKE
AD-20 MICROPHONE PREAMPLIFIER AND A/D CONVERTER be a good move ,I dislike
the Aphex 107 preamp I use and the converters that my Tascam DA-P1 and SB
Audigy 2 already have ?

It's a good sounding mic pre/A-to-D and makes a good front-end upgrade
for aging DAT recorders.

Question:Is there a good MICROPHONE PREAMPLIFIER AND A/D CONVERTER with
Phantom power that I could use with both the Tascam DA-P1 , Nagra and
the PC

You might have a look at our Mic2496 handheld dual mic pre/A-to-D. It
has phantom power, ganged level controls, activity and clip indicators,
optical and coaxial S/PDIF outputs, and runs on a single 9 Volt battery.

I need to be very mobile with the DAT /Nagra .We're recording classical
music at different locations.

You might have a look at our PDAudio system: two tracks of 24/96,
recording to flash memory cards or hard disk, in a handheld, battery
powered form.

--
Len Moskowitz PDAudio, Binaural Mics, Cables, DPA, M-Audio
Core Sound http://www.stealthmicrophones.com
Teaneck, New Jersey USA http://www.core-sound.com
Tel: 201-801-0812, FAX: 201-801-0912

Edward Bridge wrote:

Question: Would using DENECKE
AD-20 MICROPHONE PREAMPLIFIER AND A/D CONVERTER be a good move ,I dislike
the Aphex 107 preamp I use and the converters that my Tascam DA-P1 and SB
Audigy 2 already have ?

It's a good sounding mic pre/A-to-D and makes a good front-end upgrade
for aging DAT recorders.

Question:Is there a good MICROPHONE PREAMPLIFIER AND A/D CONVERTER with
Phantom power that I could use with both the Tascam DA-P1 , Nagra and
the PC

You might have a look at our Mic2496 handheld dual mic pre/A-to-D. It
has phantom power, ganged level controls, activity and clip indicators,
optical and coaxial S/PDIF outputs, and runs on a single 9 Volt battery.

I need to be very mobile with the DAT /Nagra .We're recording classical
music at different locations.

You might have a look at our PDAudio system: two tracks of 24/96,
recording to flash memory cards or hard disk, in a handheld, battery
powered form.

--
Len Moskowitz PDAudio, Binaural Mics, Cables, DPA, M-Audio
Core Sound http://www.stealthmicrophones.com
Teaneck, New Jersey USA http://www.core-sound.com
Tel: 201-801-0812, FAX: 201-801-0912

David Satz wrote:

One is that there is no form of level indication whatsoever;

You might check out our Mic2496. It has activity and clip indicators
and is smaller than the AD-20. It also provides phantom power.

--
Len Moskowitz PDAudio, Binaural Mics, Cables, DPA, M-Audio
Core Sound http://www.stealthmicrophones.com
Teaneck, New Jersey USA http://www.core-sound.com
Tel: 201-801-0812, FAX: 201-801-0912

David Satz wrote:

One is that there is no form of level indication whatsoever;

You might check out our Mic2496. It has activity and clip indicators
and is smaller than the AD-20. It also provides phantom power.

--
Len Moskowitz PDAudio, Binaural Mics, Cables, DPA, M-Audio
Core Sound http://www.stealthmicrophones.com
Teaneck, New Jersey USA http://www.core-sound.com
Tel: 201-801-0812, FAX: 201-801-0912

Scott Dorsey wrote:

Question:Is there a good MICROPHONE PREAMPLIFIER AND A/D CONVERTER with
Phantom power that I could use with both the Tascam DA-P1 , Nagra and the PC

Nothing anywhere near as small as the Denecke. If you need a concealed
body pack for film work, the Denecke is the way to go.

Our Mic2496 is smaller, does 24/96 and also provides phantom power.

http://www.core-sound.com/Mic2496.html

--
Len Moskowitz PDAudio, Binaural Mics, Cables, DPA, M-Audio
Core Sound http://www.stealthmicrophones.com
Teaneck, New Jersey USA http://www.core-sound.com
Tel: 201-801-0812, FAX: 201-801-0912

Scott Dorsey wrote:

Question:Is there a good MICROPHONE PREAMPLIFIER AND A/D CONVERTER with
Phantom power that I could use with both the Tascam DA-P1 , Nagra and the PC

Nothing anywhere near as small as the Denecke. If you need a concealed
body pack for film work, the Denecke is the way to go.

Our Mic2496 is smaller, does 24/96 and also provides phantom power.

http://www.core-sound.com/Mic2496.html

--
Len Moskowitz PDAudio, Binaural Mics, Cables, DPA, M-Audio
Core Sound http://www.stealthmicrophones.com
Teaneck, New Jersey USA http://www.core-sound.com
Tel: 201-801-0812, FAX: 201-801-0912

"Len Moskowitz" wrote in message
...

Edward Bridge wrote:

Question: Would using DENECKE
AD-20 MICROPHONE PREAMPLIFIER AND A/D CONVERTER be a good move ,I dislike
the Aphex 107 preamp I use and the converters that my Tascam DA-P1 and
SB
Audigy 2 already have ?

It's a good sounding mic pre/A-to-D and makes a good front-end upgrade
for aging DAT recorders.

Question:Is there a good MICROPHONE PREAMPLIFIER AND A/D CONVERTER with
Phantom power that I could use with both the Tascam DA-P1 , Nagra and
the PC

You might have a look at our Mic2496 handheld dual mic pre/A-to-D. It
has phantom power, ganged level controls, activity and clip indicators,
optical and coaxial S/PDIF outputs, and runs on a single 9 Volt battery.

I need to be very mobile with the DAT /Nagra .We're recording classical
music at different locations.

You might have a look at our PDAudio system: two tracks of 24/96,
recording to flash memory cards or hard disk, in a handheld, battery
powered form.


Thank you .
Ed

"Len Moskowitz" wrote in message
...

Edward Bridge wrote:

Question: Would using DENECKE
AD-20 MICROPHONE PREAMPLIFIER AND A/D CONVERTER be a good move ,I dislike
the Aphex 107 preamp I use and the converters that my Tascam DA-P1 and
SB
Audigy 2 already have ?

It's a good sounding mic pre/A-to-D and makes a good front-end upgrade
for aging DAT recorders.

Question:Is there a good MICROPHONE PREAMPLIFIER AND A/D CONVERTER with
Phantom power that I could use with both the Tascam DA-P1 , Nagra and
the PC

You might have a look at our Mic2496 handheld dual mic pre/A-to-D. It
has phantom power, ganged level controls, activity and clip indicators,
optical and coaxial S/PDIF outputs, and runs on a single 9 Volt battery.

I need to be very mobile with the DAT /Nagra .We're recording classical
music at different locations.

You might have a look at our PDAudio system: two tracks of 24/96,
recording to flash memory cards or hard disk, in a handheld, battery
powered form.


Thank you .
Ed

"Edward Bridge" wrote in message
ink.net
"David Satz" wrote in message
om...
.
The pads on most condenser microphones reduce the signals at the very
worst place possible--at the input to the microphone's own
electronics.

I have Cad 100's from 5 years ago, I'll have to look into if they do
that, I 'm sure they do knowing my luck HA.

http://www.cadmics.com/pdf_files/e100_manual.pdf the schematic is on page
4.

I'll leave it to David to support his claim... The pad is close to the
input, but not exactly at the input.

Furthermore, I see some advantage to attenuating at the input to the mic
electronics, if clipping in those electronics is the concern.

The point is made however, that using internal and external pads can have
vastly different results when you don't know for sure at the moment where
the clipping is coming from (i.e., the real world).