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Peter Wieck Peter Wieck is offline
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a) How many here actually have used a soldering iron on their own electronics in cold blood?

b) How many here can read and understand a schematic well enough to make parts and quality decisions?

c) How many here believe that there is a direct (if not necessarily linear) correlation between sound and cost?

d) How many here have dedicated (single-purpose) listening rooms?

Asked in the spirit of curiosity. And, going first:

Most everything I have or own with a few specific exceptions did not come to me in reliable working condition. Some were little more than hulks (but with good transformers), some needed only minor tweaks. But I have, in my time and directly, re-wound solenoids, re-wound voice-coils, reconed and re-surrounded speakers, the usual recapping, turned moving parts on a lathe, milled others. and more. I can (but seldom need to) match tubes properly. So, Yes to a)

Yes - but, to b) I can read a schematic, I can identify marginal quality parts if due to age, what is available now, and other reasons. But I am not a circuit designer. I prefer to restore or improve a good basic design over creating one of my own.

c) Lots of variations here. It does take a certain amount of time, treasure and trouble to execute a good basic design. To that extent, I believe there is a linear relationship to cost and quality - transformers being one example easily understood. BUT: after a certain point, there are only but so many things that can go in a box, and those things can cost only but so much..

d) No, almost emphatically. We have three listening venues 'at home' being the Library, which also contains the altar for the television, the living room which is a relaxing area for reading, napping, and guests when in the house. Then there is my workshop (a small bedroom upstairs) wherein are three active systems - one of which consists of things that are heading to, or recently from the bench and being burnt in, tested or verified as fit for polite society.

At our summer house we have two venues - one being sound reinforcement for the DVD player, the other being an indoor-outdoor (switchable) system in the bedroom that also feeds the side yard and deck.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA
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isw isw is offline
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In article ,
Peter Wieck wrote:

a) How many here actually have used a soldering iron on their own electronics
in cold blood?


Yes; many times, both as a designer and as a repairperson.

b) How many here can read and understand a schematic well enough to make
parts and quality decisions?


Ditto; tube and solid-state, linear and digital.

c) How many here believe that there is a direct (if not necessarily linear)
correlation between sound and cost?


There is a correlation, but it's sort of "bell-shaped"; after a point,
more money doesn't improve things (other than visually).

d) How many here have dedicated (single-purpose) listening rooms?


Not since I retired and moved. Used to have a pair of homebrew
Klipschorns (accurate copies thanks to the graciousness of Paul Klipsch)
with a subwoofer in a sealed box, plus a set of home-designed and -built
amplifiers and preamps.

Isaac
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abbeynormal abbeynormal is offline
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I certainly cannot compete with that. most I ever did was a white trash fix for some rattly buzzy speaker cabinets.
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Dave Dave is offline
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On Tuesday, February 21, 2017 at 12:35:57 PM UTC-5, Peter Wieck wrote:
a) How many here actually have used a soldering iron on their own electro=

nics in cold blood?

Many times, starting with Eico kits in the early 1960s.
=20
b) How many here can read and understand a schematic well enough to make =

parts and quality decisions?=20

I suppose 40-odd years of designing electronics for space applications coun=
ts here.
=20
c) How many here believe that there is a direct (if not necessarily linea=

r) correlation between sound and cost?=20

Depends on the items. Most electronics will have noticeable improvements w=
ith component upgrades. Turntables benefit from more expensive bearings. =
Speakers benefit from more expensive cabinets. Cables have little benefit =
after basic construction is good. This is my opinion. I have modded elect=
ronics and have heard improvements - I think, could have just adjusted my r=
esponse from expectation. Some actually measured better after component ch=
anges, so that must mean something.
=20
d) How many here have dedicated (single-purpose) listening rooms?


I wish.=20


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Ed Presson[_2_] Ed Presson[_2_] is offline
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"Peter Wieck" wrote in message ...

a) How many here actually have used a soldering iron on their own
electronics in cold blood?


b) How many here can read and understand a schematic well enough to make
parts and quality decisions?


c) How many here believe that there is a direct (if not necessarily linear)
correlation between sound and cost?


d) How many here have dedicated (single-purpose) listening rooms?


a) I built Heathkits, Eico kits, and Dynakits in the early sixties. I
remember using the soldering iron for some repair
since then, but I cannot remember the details.

b) Nope, not anymore.

c) I'm sorry to say (for my wallet's sake) that I believe there is, at
least sometimes, a correlation. Not linear, not
predictable, and probably subject to irrational biases.

d) We had a separate garage behind the house that was converted for use as
an artist's studio and listening room. Since it
serves no other purpose and I am the only user, I can optimize the space
pretty much to my listening and painting pleasure.

Ed Presson




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~misfit~[_3_] ~misfit~[_3_] is offline
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Once upon a time on usenet Peter Wieck wrote:
a) How many here actually have used a soldering iron on their own
electronics in cold blood?


My main soldering iron is used at least twice a week. My hot air station
twice a fortnight.

b) How many here can read and understand a schematic well enough to
make parts and quality decisions?


Yeah mostly.

c) How many here believe that there is a direct (if not necessarily
linear) correlation between sound and cost?


Yes but with diminishing returns (unfortunately they start to diminish
considerably at a point that is well out of my reach as an invalid on
welfare - thank the gods for 'tunable' vintage gear!).

d) How many here have dedicated (single-purpose) listening rooms?


No. I have a dual purpose room for audio and video with dual audio systems
(stereo and 5.1). I also have quite reasonable sound systems in four rooms
of the house - two in one open-plan room.

Cheers,
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)

Asked in the spirit of curiosity. And, going first:

Most everything I have or own with a few specific exceptions did not
come to me in reliable working condition. Some were little more than
hulks (but with good transformers), some needed only minor tweaks.
But I have, in my time and directly, re-wound solenoids, re-wound
voice-coils, reconed and re-surrounded speakers, the usual recapping,
turned moving parts on a lathe, milled others. and more. I can (but
seldom need to) match tubes properly. So, Yes to a)

Yes - but, to b) I can read a schematic, I can identify marginal
quality parts if due to age, what is available now, and other
reasons. But I am not a circuit designer. I prefer to restore or
improve a good basic design over creating one of my own.

c) Lots of variations here. It does take a certain amount of time,
treasure and trouble to execute a good basic design. To that extent,
I believe there is a linear relationship to cost and quality -
transformers being one example easily understood. BUT: after a
certain point, there are only but so many things that can go in a
box, and those things can cost only but so much.

d) No, almost emphatically. We have three listening venues 'at home'
being the Library, which also contains the altar for the television,
the living room which is a relaxing area for reading, napping, and
guests when in the house. Then there is my workshop (a small bedroom
upstairs) wherein are three active systems - one of which consists of
things that are heading to, or recently from the bench and being
burnt in, tested or verified as fit for polite society.

At our summer house we have two venues - one being sound
reinforcement for the DVD player, the other being an indoor-outdoor
(switchable) system in the bedroom that also feeds the side yard and
deck.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA




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abbeynormal abbeynormal is offline
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sound and cost correlation-
I've heard high-end audio that to me sounded not appreciably better [frequency response, treble dispersion uniformity, dynamics, imaging, general musicality] than my ancient rudimentary kludge of a system. in fact some high-end equipment sounded worse to my ears at least. I heard an early iteration of "the amazing loudspeaker" that made an "audiophile" piano recording sound hooty and boxy in a way no real piano sounds. the top of the line infinity towers were too bright for me, my limited time in actual recording studios showed me that master tapes/recordings in general [at least back in the day, 70s and 80s] were not THAT bright-sounding. based on parts cost and labor/overhead, i'd say that much of consumer audio [especially high-end] is at least somewhat overpriced. as bob carver said, "good engineering does not have to cost more than bad engineering." this said, nothing I've ever heard sounded more musical and REAL, than a pair of magnapan tympani III planars powered by two refrigerator-sized monoblock class A amps [which heated the room uncomfortably] and probably together cost as much as a house. that is the aural template of good sound that I've kept in my head since that 1982 visit to definitive audio in seattle.
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Peter Wieck Peter Wieck is offline
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There is nothing on the planet like a good pair of Maggies and enough power behind them to make them sing.

I keep a pair of MG-IIIs with the ribbon tweeters and the external crossovers. And I have a tolerant wife that allows them to be put 'where they should be".

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA
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Robert Peirce Robert Peirce is offline
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On 2/21/17 12:35 PM, Peter Wieck wrote:
a) How many here actually have used a soldering iron on their own electronics in cold blood?


Yes.

b) How many here can read and understand a schematic well enough to make parts and quality decisions?


I can read a schematic. I would have trouble deciding on quality at the
margin.

c) How many here believe that there is a direct (if not necessarily linear) correlation between sound and cost?


I know that's not true. I've found a lot of so-called pro gear is
better than high end products costing many times more. This may be more
true now than 40-50 years ago. I don't know about that. I've also
found I can't really discern much difference between really expensive
stuff and astronomically expensive stuff. I have the same problem with
wine.

d) How many here have dedicated (single-purpose) listening rooms?


Dedicated but not single purpose. I also have a desk there.


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abbeynormal abbeynormal is offline
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On Saturday, February 25, 2017 at 6:05:32 AM UTC-8, Peter Wieck wrote:
There is nothing on the planet like a good pair of Maggies and enough power behind them to make them sing.

I keep a pair of MG-IIIs with the ribbon tweeters and the external crossovers. And I have a tolerant wife that allows them to be put 'where they should be".

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA


^^^^a fortunate man you are, indeed.


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On 21 Feb 2017 17:35:55 GMT, Peter Wieck wrote:

a) How many here actually have used a soldering iron on their own electronics in cold blood?


Been soldering since I was around 10 years old. I'm now mid 60s, and
still doing it.

b) How many here can read and understand a schematic well enough to make parts and quality decisions?


Give me a schematic for vacuum tubes and I can tell exactly whats going
on. Give me one with transistors and diodes, and I will work my way thru
it. Give me one with modern ICs and some of these new fangled solid
state devices, and I'll hand it back to you, and tell you about the
1500watt color organ I built from scratch in 1967 (which still works)
and it never needed any ICs. Just three triacs, 3 diacs, and some
capacitors, resistors, inductors and three pots.


c) How many here believe that there is a direct (if not necessarily linear) correlation between sound and cost?

To a degree. I'd love to own a pair of Mcintosh MC3500 amps, but I'd
have to sell my home to buy them. Then I would not have any place to use
them. The best stereo I ever owned, I built around 1969, using three
identical mono block amps salvaged from a company which installed them
in theaters. There was a fire in the building that housed them. They
were 1940's ish amps, and they had a smoke smell, but were not in the
actual fire. My father was working for a company rebuilding that place.
He was told to toss them in a dumpster.He brought them home for me. I
cleaned them up and replaced the octal based electrolytic caps. I built
two huge (heavy) refrigerator size cabinets, put in 15" and 12' guitar
amp speakers and some horns. Each amp output around 100W from the four
6L6 tubes. That was one heck of a kick-ass stereo, with excellent sound
and power to spare. Later on, I took the 3rd amp, fed it from a separate
preamp, using a mono version of the original input, and fed it thru a
guitar amp reverb spring unit. I built a smaller speaker cabinet with
two 12" guitar speakers, and that became the rear channel, (similar to
the later quad systems). But with that reverb, even the smallest room
was like being in a huge auditorium.

Eventually that all got packed away in a garage, because it would not
fit in apartments that I lived in, not to mention that too many times
the police came about noise complaints. Several years ago, the land
where that garage was, was sold and I had to move them. Well, I still
have all of this stuff and it now makes my workshop a little too small
because of all the space it takes. I plan to recap these amps soon, and
40 years later, put this system back in use.

In the meantime, I have had several fairly decent solid state systems.
They played music, and some were even loud, but none of them have had
that wonderful tube sound.

d) How many here have dedicated (single-purpose) listening rooms?


Nope, just my living room. In order to bring my BIG stereo back in the
house, I am considering building an addition on the house, which will
also serve as an indoor workshop for my electronics, because my other
workshop is not heated in a separate building which is 100 yards from
the house. But the good thing is that I now live on a farm and the
nearest neighbor is a mile away. I can play my music as loud as I want
and no one will call the police.... (at least not till I exceed 10,000
watts)


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^^^^nearest neighbor a mile away? what a fortunate man you are!
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