I'm about to have to build a small PA for small club/private party use. It's
been so long since I actively dealt with PA's (I had a Peavey 2404 and about
5 CS-800's, so it was at least 15 years ago...) that I'm not sure exactly
what to look for. I'm soliciting advice.

Here's the parameters: I want a system that is at least a little bit
configurable to go from something my wife can load on her own to do a
guitar/vocal gig in a 20 seat lounge up to something that will work for a 10
piece band in a hotel ballroom.

I currently have a Peavey XR600 head (I think that's the number - the old
all in one head with 6 channels), a pair of Horizon speakers with 1x15 and a
horn and a JBL floor monitor with a 12: speaker and a bullet tweeter (all
that's left from my old PA). We usually run all three cabinets from the
output of the head - it works. In fact, I'm using it today for a wedding
gig with a 5 piece band, and a couple of weeks ago for a Moose lodge gig.
(No instruments except acoustic guitar go through this system - it's for
vocals - well, sometimes I'll play bass through it as well if we're doing a
duo gig).

What I'd like to have is a small (rack mounted or road cased) mixer with a
number of 8 space racks to build whatever I need for the gig. For example,
for a single or duo, just the mixer and a rack with a power amp and EQ for
the (single) monitor. For these kinds of dates, the Horizon speakers work
just fine. but once a full band is involved, they start to show their age
and price.

Then for small group dates, the same mixer, some way to run either 2 or 4
monitors, and mains that can be carted around fairly easily. For bigger
group dates, I'd rather add speakers of the same kind and more power rather
than build a completely different setup. As I mentioned earlier, a worst
case scenario would be a 10 piece horn band, which would need instruments
running through the PA.

I'm know what I need concerning mic choices and such, but I'm pretty out of
touch with decent small mixers, speakers and power amps. And naturally, I'm
on a tight budget.

Would anyone have recommendations for this sort of system?


Dave Martin
Java Jive Studio
Nashville, TN
www.javajivestudio.com

"Dave Martin" wrote in message
...
Then for small group dates, the same mixer, some way to run either 2 or 4
monitors, and mains that can be carted around fairly easily. For bigger
group dates, I'd rather add speakers of the same kind and more power
rather
than build a completely different setup. As I mentioned earlier, a worst
case scenario would be a 10 piece horn band, which would need instruments
running through the PA.

Would anyone have recommendations for this sort of system?

Hi Dave,
I have a duo that plays frequently. When I first started the
duo I had a system than consisted of the following: Mackie 1402 mixer, Crown
power amp, Community 15" mains, Community monitors, rack with fx,
compressors, e.q. The system worked well, but I got a little tired of
lugging it. I needed a van to transport it also. I recently went down to a
smaller unit. I bought a p.a. head that has 3 200watt power amps in it. The
mains are stereo (200 per side) and the monitors are 200. You can have a
seperate monitor mix with spereate levels of reverb and e.q. I basically
plug 4 cables into it and go (o.k. maybe a few more.....but it's set up in
15 minutes). I still us the Community cabs and monitors (although now I'm
thinking of getting a set of those hot spot monitors to conserve even more
space).
Basically my only advice is you get tired of lugging stuff.
I wish I had bought the 12" cabs instead of the 15". Smaller is definately
better. My whole rig fits in my vocalists car now. Versatility is a great
thing and you don't want to be stuck in a corner, but practicality sometimes
is the best option (especially when you play a few times a week).
My friends band only uses a small rig like this (p.a. head).
They don't mic everything, only vocals and keyboards go through the p.a.
They play smaller clubs and it's plenty of volume.

--litepipe

Dave Martin wrote:

I'm about to have to build a small PA for small club/private party use. It's
been so long since I actively dealt with PA's (I had a Peavey 2404 and about
5 CS-800's, so it was at least 15 years ago...) that I'm not sure exactly
what to look for. I'm soliciting advice.

A popular rig around here is a small format mixer (mackie 1402, A-H mix
wizard, etc) and a pair of mackie SRM-450s. The new SRM-350s look pretty
interesting but I don't believe they are available yet. If I were
putting together a small PA I'd also want a Sabine ADF4000. Decent
sounding signal processing + RTA in two rack spaces.

bobs

Bob Smith
BS Studios
we organize chaos
http://www.bsstudios.com

Here's the parameters: I want a system that is at least a little bit
configurable to go from something my wife can load on her own to do a
guitar/vocal gig in a 20 seat lounge up to something that will work for a
10
piece band in a hotel ballroom.

soundcraft power station powered mixer
Eaw la 212 foh speakers
and in-ear monitors owned by the musicians who want monitors
George


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"George Gleason" wrote in message
...

Here's the parameters: I want a system that is at least a little bit
configurable to go from something my wife can load on her own to do a
guitar/vocal gig in a 20 seat lounge up to something that will work for
a
10
piece band in a hotel ballroom.

soundcraft power station powered mixer
Eaw la 212 foh speakers
and in-ear monitors owned by the musicians who want monitors
George

So George, you think that a powered mixer (obviously handy for solo or duo
gigs) is still the answer for a 8-10 piece private party band? I'll check
out the EAW's, but unfortunately, the private party bands around here don't
use in-ears - considering that you might play with 4 or 5 different groups
during the course of a week (another way to say it is that I may have
different guys on every gig if I'm playing 4 nights a week), it seems easier
for me to have a couple of pairs of monitors (which usually only have vocals
and sometimes horns in them) and just go for it.


--
Dave Martin
Java Jive Studio
Nashville, TN
www.javajivestudio.com

"Dave Martin" wrote in message
...
"George Gleason" wrote in message
...

Here's the parameters: I want a system that is at least a little bit
configurable to go from something my wife can load on her own to do a
guitar/vocal gig in a 20 seat lounge up to something that will work
for
a
10
piece band in a hotel ballroom.

soundcraft power station powered mixer
Eaw la 212 foh speakers
and in-ear monitors owned by the musicians who want monitors
George

So George, you think that a powered mixer (obviously handy for solo or duo
gigs) is still the answer for a 8-10 piece private party band? I'll check
out the EAW's, but unfortunately, the private party bands around here
don't
use in-ears - considering that you might play with 4 or 5 different groups
during the course of a week (another way to say it is that I may have
different guys on every gig if I'm playing 4 nights a week), it seems
easier
for me to have a couple of pairs of monitors (which usually only have
vocals
and sometimes horns in them) and just go for it.

Dave the soundcraft has 600 watts into each amp, long time since I looked at
one but I think it has 4 amp channels and 16 inputs
easil;y handle a 10 piece providing you do not go overboard on drum mics
as for your personal rig
your in ears are feed off your own personal stage mixer(802,1202) that way
you get control over your own signals and the other instrument are feed to a
channel in to the 802 from the foh mixer then mixed(by you ) with your mic
and instrument to create ytou own perfect mix

to go any other way means that your set goals can not be met
you would need a van full of gear for a traditional approach to a 10 piece
big band with monitors
with my approach all you need is the powered mixer two 15x1 speakers stands
mics and cables, easy fit in most cars
with the in-ears you eliminate the monitor boxes and amps and wireing
and you end up with a better mix


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"Dave Martin" wrote in message
...
"George Gleason" wrote in message
...

Here's the parameters: I want a system that is at least a little bit
configurable to go from something my wife can load on her own to do a
guitar/vocal gig in a 20 seat lounge up to something that will work
for
a
10
piece band in a hotel ballroom.

soundcraft power station powered mixer
Eaw la 212 foh speakers
and in-ear monitors owned by the musicians who want monitors
George

So George, you think that a powered mixer (obviously handy for solo or duo
gigs) is still the answer for a 8-10 piece private party band?


yopur other option would be galaxy "hotspot" type monitors
there is no way you can have 10 wedges, amps, wiring,and support gear and
still fit in a car
in a party band monitors are vocal only mostly
so I would put the burden of providing the monitors back on the muso
if they don't want it fine but there is no way to have you provide them
under the conditions you laid out
George


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Dave Martin wrote:

"George Gleason" wrote...

Here's the parameters: I want a system that is at least a little bit
configurable to go from something my wife can load on her own to do a
guitar/vocal gig in a 20 seat lounge up to something that will work for
a 10 piece band in a hotel ballroom.

soundcraft power station powered mixer
Eaw la 212 foh speakers
and in-ear monitors owned by the musicians who want monitors

So George, you think that a powered mixer (obviously handy for solo or duo
gigs) is still the answer for a 8-10 piece private party band?

You might have to add amp(s) for larger; you could use the built-ins for
stage mon amps.

--
ha

I don't think it is at all necessary to have one floor wedge for each
band member, especially if not every one of them sings.

In a 10 piece band scenario, assuming 3 or 4 horns, you will probably
want a minimum of two seperate monitor mixes. Something like the
Mackie 1604 VLZ will give you two prefader aux sends, so you can
create two seperate monitor mixes, and use the other auxes for reverb
sends.

Then if you have one or two floor wedges for the horns and give them
their own mix, and then strategically place two or three other wedges
all with the vocal mix - then you should be able to get away with
maximum four or five wedges. I've seen some bands use just one wedge
for the horns and two for the vocals - so that would be only three
wedges, but for 10 pieces that might be pushing it.

With this configuration you will need two power amps - a two channel
one for the two monitor mixes, and another for your mains. The QSC PLX
series is both light, reliable, and powerful - you may want to check
them out.

For mains, it depends if you are running basically vocals through them
with a bit of keys/horns, etc. or if you are going to run kick drum
and bass through them as well. If the former, you can easily get away
with just 12" two way speakers. I recommend the EV SX300's which sound
great and are very rugged and compact. If you are going to send a lot
of low end stuff through the PA, you will probably need to buy mains
with 15" drivers, but now you're not going to find very much that is
lightweight or portable.

If the board you buy doesn't have reverb, you will need to get an
outboard box. It is good to get dual mono rather than just stereo
reverb, so you can isolate the horn reverb from the vocal reverb in
the monitor mixes. You may also need a two channel graphic EQ to tweak
the monitors, and a compressor for the mains is always a great
addition - lets you get a MUCH hotter sounding house mix without
clipping your power amps.

I can't stress enough that the key thing in a large band scenario is
to have the flexibility to create at least two seperate monitor mixes.
No vocalist wants to hear horns blasting out of his/her monitor, nor
do the horns particularly want to hear the vocalist screaming out of
theirs. One monitor mix makes for a very unhappy band. Two (or more)
makes for musicians psyched to play their asses off.

"White Swan" wrote in message
om...
I don't think it is at all necessary to have one floor wedge for each
band member, especially if not every one of them sings.

In a 10 piece band scenario, assuming 3 or 4 horns, you will probably
want a minimum of two seperate monitor mixes.
my experiance would lead me to think 6 mixes
and at least 8 boxes

Something like the
Mackie 1604 VLZ will give you two prefader aux sends, so you can
create two seperate monitor mixes, and use the other auxes for reverb
sends.

the O1v will give you 4 mixes and no need for any outboard
why didn't I think of that before???

Then if you have one or two floor wedges for the horns and give them
their own mix, and then strategically place two or three other wedges
all with the vocal mix - then you should be able to get away with
maximum four or five wedges. I've seen some bands use just one wedge
for the horns and two for the vocals - so that would be only three
wedges, but for 10 pieces that might be pushing it.

I am a supplier it is funny what a band uses when I supply Vs what they use
when they supply I had one guy ask for 3 seperate mixes on 2 boxes each one
time
he didn't get it

With this configuration you will need two power amps - a two channel
one for the two monitor mixes, and another for your mains. The QSC PLX
series is both light, reliable, and powerful - you may want to check
them out.

remember we are talking about a system that fits in a sedan and can be
carried(possibly up stairs) and set up by his wife
hence the basis for most of my recommendations

For mains, it depends if you are running basically vocals through them
with a bit of keys/horns, etc. or if you are going to run kick drum
and bass through them as well. If the former, you can easily get away
with just 12" two way speakers. I recommend the EV SX300's which sound
great and are very rugged and compact. If you are going to send a lot
of low end stuff through the PA, you will probably need to buy mains
with 15" drivers, but now you're not going to find very much that is
lightweight or portable.

the la212 do a amazing job with LF info

If the board you buy doesn't have reverb, you will need to get an
outboard box. It is good to get dual mono rather than just stereo
reverb, so you can isolate the horn reverb from the vocal reverb in
the monitor mixes. You may also need a two channel graphic EQ to tweak
the monitors, and a compressor for the mains is always a great
addition - lets you get a MUCH hotter sounding house mix without
clipping your power amps.

this system has to fit in a sedan and be carried , setup and removed by his
wife you need to reconsider the amount of gear your suggesting
it is IMO unrealsitic to try to do such extremes with a single pa, but he
asked so I did my best

I can't stress enough that the key thing in a large band scenario is
to have the flexibility to create at least two seperate monitor mixes.

I agree but I see at least 6 mixes with all the large party /horn section
bands I mix


No vocalist wants to hear horns blasting out of his/her monitor, nor
do the horns particularly want to hear the vocalist screaming out of
theirs. One monitor mix makes for a very unhappy band. Two (or more)

yes more
but the OP does not have the room or the manpower to handle a multi mix band
unless these mixes are in ears
or the OP has to come up with a legitimate secenrio for us
George



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I think all the answers so far are good. All i'm pointing out is that
many bands who do their own self-contained sound do not have nearly
the ideal configurations that a pro rental company would supply. Sure
six monitor mixes would be nice, but most bands doing
weddings/corporate parties/functions etc. who do their own sound don't
have anything close to that.

I know, because i've subbed in with a lot of new england bands who
work regularly, and you would be amazed at some of the sad excuses for
sound systems many of them have. Based on those experiences, a four
wedge/two monitor mix configuration would seem like heaven.

In article ,
(White Swan) wrote:

I think all the answers so far are good. All i'm pointing out is that
many bands who do their own self-contained sound do not have nearly
the ideal configurations that a pro rental company would supply. Sure
six monitor mixes would be nice, but most bands doing
weddings/corporate parties/functions etc. who do their own sound don't
have anything close to that.

I know, because i've subbed in with a lot of new england bands who
work regularly, and you would be amazed at some of the sad excuses for
sound systems many of them have. Based on those experiences, a four
wedge/two monitor mix configuration would seem like heaven.

still way to much gear to fit in the poster scenario, find a way to fit
it in a sedan that his wife can carry.
George

In article writes:

I think all the answers so far are good. All i'm pointing out is that
many bands who do their own self-contained sound do not have nearly
the ideal configurations that a pro rental company would supply.

Boy, that's for sure. When I was working festivals, I saw all sorts of
imaginitive requests for mics and monitor setups. On a couple of
occasions when I asked the bands (who didn't get what they asked for
and were perfectly happy with what they got) what they used for their
own shows, almost always the answer was along the lines of "Oh, we
never do shows like this, so we just thought that there would be more
equipment available."



--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

"George Gleason" wrote in message
news:ho9ub.76104$Ec1.4011563@bgtnsc05-

Dave the soundcraft has 600 watts into each amp, long time since I looked
at
one but I think it has 4 amp channels and 16 inputs
easil;y handle a 10 piece providing you do not go overboard on drum mics
as for your personal rig

That makes sense to me.

your in ears are feed off your own personal stage mixer(802,1202) that way
you get control over your own signals and the other instrument are feed to
a
channel in to the 802 from the foh mixer then mixed(by you ) with your mic
and instrument to create ytou own perfect mix

That seems like a big set-up issue, even assuming that all the guys had
in-ears. There are other reasons that I would hesitate to use in-ears on
that sort of gig (the fact that some of the players don't show up until 10
minutes before down beat being one of them), so I'll do my best to figure
out a small stage monitor rig.

to go any other way means that your set goals can not be met
you would need a van full of gear for a traditional approach to a 10 piece
big band with monitors
with my approach all you need is the powered mixer two 15x1 speakers
stands
mics and cables, easy fit in most cars
with the in-ears you eliminate the monitor boxes and amps and wireing
and you end up with a better mix

Actually, Since both my wife and I drive SUV's, that's not that big an
issue. And right now, I'm thinking of putting all of this in a trailer -
that way, I can (A) simply roll it down the ramp instead of lifting it out
of the back of a vehicle, and (B) can leave it in the trailer rather than
unloading it at the end of the night.. That was why I was thinking about
some smallish mixer and adding amps and cabs to scale up from a small rig to
a bigger one. If I'm doing it that way, it doesn't seem to be that big an
issue to simply roll another rack out of the trailer. But as I say, I
haven't done this for 15 or 20 years...

"George Gleason" wrote in message
news:jefub.279176$0v4.17771329@bgtnsc04-

remember we are talking about a system that fits in a sedan and can be
carried(possibly up stairs) and set up by his wife
hence the basis for most of my recommendations

I'm sorry for not being clear in my original message, George - the smallest
version of such a system (suitable for a single or duo) would need to be
moveable by my wife (possible with a hand truck), but the larger versions
would be carried in a trailer. It used to be (when I was a young man) that
it was a heck of a lot easier to transport all of this stuff in road cases,
so that it can be rolled in and unloaded (carrying an armload of mic stands
in is a big pain in the ass, while rolling in a case or a bag full of stands
is a single trip. As it happens, I've got a few 8 space shock mounted
lid-over cases sitting around unused; that was why I suggested that having
power/EQ for a larger system could be put into those racks - I wouldn't have
to buy anything, and the racks roll really well. (And one person can
'almost' pick them up).

Does that make it any easier to configure such a system?

And thanks to all for your helpful information and input so far, both on RAP
and via e-mail!
--
Dave Martin
Java Jive Studio
Nashville, TN
www.javajivestudio.com

"Dave Martin" wrote in message
...
"George Gleason" wrote in message
news:jefub.279176$0v4.17771329@bgtnsc04-

remember we are talking about a system that fits in a sedan and can be
carried(possibly up stairs) and set up by his wife
hence the basis for most of my recommendations

I'm sorry for not being clear in my original message, George - the
smallest
version of such a system (suitable for a single or duo) would need to be
moveable by my wife (possible with a hand truck), but the larger versions
would be carried in a trailer. It used to be (when I was a young man) that
it was a heck of a lot easier to transport all of this stuff in road
cases,
so that it can be rolled in and unloaded (carrying an armload of mic
stands
in is a big pain in the ass, while rolling in a case or a bag full of
stands
is a single trip. As it happens, I've got a few 8 space shock mounted
lid-over cases sitting around unused; that was why I suggested that having
power/EQ for a larger system could be put into those racks - I wouldn't
have
to buy anything, and the racks roll really well. (And one person can
'almost' pick them up).

Does that make it any easier to configure such a system?

And thanks to all for your helpful information and input so far, both on
RAP
and via e-mail!
yes it opens up the choices quite a bit
I was thinking about your issues and almost think a programmable digital
desk like a o1v would be perfect for this
George


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In article writes:

But as I say, I haven't done this for 15 or 20 years...

You mean you're finally thinking about getting a REAL job? g



--
I'm really Mike Rivers - )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

White Swan wrote:

I think all the answers so far are good. All i'm pointing out is that
many bands who do their own self-contained sound do not have nearly
the ideal configurations that a pro rental company would supply. Sure
six monitor mixes would be nice, but most bands doing
weddings/corporate parties/functions etc. who do their own sound don't
have anything close to that.

I know, because i've subbed in with a lot of new england bands who
work regularly, and you would be amazed at some of the sad excuses for
sound systems many of them have. Based on those experiences, a four
wedge/two monitor mix configuration would seem like heaven.

Makes perfect sense; but if you go to Dave's Java Jive website and take
note of his gear stash you'll grok that his awareness of audio quality
probably differs somewhat from that of some heavily experienced working
bands (and he's been there, too). His delivery will need to be a cut
above.

However, the other side of this is that the caliber of musos with whom
he gets to work is such that, yes, I think two to four mon cabs and a
couple of mixes will do the job nicely even for a ten piece band.

It doesn't always work so well to try to have the kit for the simplest
duo gigs also be a central part of the system for the larger jobs. For
straightforward small acoustic duo gigs the highest quality version of
the Fender Passport is surprisingly usable. (The lesser iterations are
not worth a sideways glance, IME.) After asking here and in a.a.p.l-s I
wound up spec'ing that for a local doctor who plays small gigs (and he's
both good and interesting), and I keep hearing from lots of folks I know
how well his system is performing. It's important that it not be asked
to get loud or large. But for smaller situations it's working, and if he
put his Martin in the passenger seat he could haul everything else in
the trunk of a Miata.

--
hank alrich * secret mountain
audio recording * music production * sound reinforcement
"If laughter is the best medicine let's take a double dose"

LeBaron & Alrich wrote:

Makes perfect sense; but if you go to Dave's Java Jive website and take
note of his gear stash you'll grok that his awareness of audio quality
probably differs somewhat from that of some heavily experienced working
bands (and he's been there, too). His delivery will need to be a cut
above.

Then he should look into the Tannoy T12 loudspeaker system. Very wide
dispersion, but very flat off-axis and no honk at all. One hell of an
accurate vocal sound in a big hall. Not cheap.

The Stage Accompany stuff can also do an amazingly accurate vocal with
much narrower dispersion.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
news:znr1069190063k@trad...

In article
writes:

But as I say, I haven't done this for 15 or 20 years...

You mean you're finally thinking about getting a REAL job? g

Gosh, no! Just picking up another part time job... You know, sitting in
front of a console all day is about to make me forget how much fun it is to
play live. Just like when I was 16, people might call me for gigs if I own a
PA...

--
Dave Martin
Java Jive Studio
Nashville, TN
www.javajivestudio.com

"LeBaron & Alrich" wrote in message
.. .

It doesn't always work so well to try to have the kit for the simplest
duo gigs also be a central part of the system for the larger jobs.

I'm starting to think that as well - George's idea of the Soundcraft Power
Station is an excellent one (especially the 8 channel version, which is more
portable) for up to about a 5 piece band (Jeez, I do that with a pair of
Horizon 1x15 cabinets, one monitor and a 6 channel Peavey head!), and then
slowly build up the extra kit to do bigger venues (I think that the
Presidential and Delta Ballrooms at the Opryland Hotel seats 3 or 4
thousand) and larger bands.

It's a darned shame that a 1604 VLZ is right on the edge of being useable -
if it sounded a bit better, had a bit more headroom and was a bit more
forgiving board, I could use that as the central part of the rig. But though
many of us on this group CAN make them work, at the best of times, they
won't be great. And in the hands of an inexperienced user (I'd likely have
to hire someone to run sound for big gigs, and just because you can run a
Yamaha 4K or a Paragon, that doesn't mean that you can get a good sound out
of a Mackie), they can be awful.

--
Dave Martin
Java Jive Studio
Nashville, TN
www.javajivestudio.com

YEs I use 8 channels just for my
drum module.

I bet those could be submixed on a small line mixer
saving a ton of work at FOH each show
I believe Rolls makes units just for this application
George


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Dave Martin wrote:

It's a darned shame that a 1604 VLZ is right on the edge of being useable -
if it sounded a bit better, had a bit more headroom and was a bit more
forgiving board, I could use that as the central part of the rig. But though
many of us on this group CAN make them work, at the best of times, they
won't be great. And in the hands of an inexperienced user (I'd likely have
to hire someone to run sound for big gigs, and just because you can run a
Yamaha 4K or a Paragon, that doesn't mean that you can get a good sound out
of a Mackie), they can be awful.

That's for damn sure, but the other side of that coin is Tonebarge's
mixes. I could well be wrong, but I'd think a cat of your excellence
might find someone with enough respect for you to listen when you said,
"Don't light the _yellow_ LEDs!!"

No ****; if one gain stages well and avoids driving that summing and
output section into the dumpster, things can sound fine. OTOH, there's
Allen & Heath...

--
ha

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NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 22:57:43 EST
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 03:57:43 GMT
Xref: intern1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com rec.audio.pro:1009692


On 2003-11-19 said:
Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro
"LeBaron & Alrich" wrote in message
. ..
It doesn't always work so well to try to have the kit for the
simplest duo gigs also be a central part of the system for the
larger jobs. I'm starting to think that as well - George's idea of
the Soundcraft Power Station is an excellent one (especially the 8
channel version, which is more portable) for up to about a 5 piece
band (
I need more inputs than that for my one man thing though. I emailed
you yesterday (sorry about all the typos, was done quickly before I
headed to take care of business.) I hope I gave you a couple of ideas.
My one man thing does all these midi modules etc. THen I've got an
acoustic guitar mic and a vocal mic. YEs I use 8 channels just for my
drum module.

It's a darned shame that a 1604 VLZ is right on the
edge of being useable - if it sounded a bit better, had a bit more
headroom and was a bit more forgiving board, I could use that as
the central part of the rig. But though many of us on this group
CAN make them work, at the best of times, they won't be great. And
in the hands of an inexperienced user (I'd likely have to hire
someone to run sound for big gigs, and just because you can run a
Yamaha 4K or a Paragon, that doesn't mean that you can get a good
sound out of a Mackie), they can be awful. --
THat's for sure. WHen I use mine I've always got some amateur sound
guy coming up to me and telling me that I've got more room before
clipping. I usually look at this individual and ask him if he's heard
the phrase no headroom before. wHen he replies in the affirmative I
explain that this is a Mackie, it epitomizes no headroom!

Btw I bought it for the mic pres originally and found out that it
replaced my old clunker board which was an old TEac that was the
companion to the 3340 machine. I was hauling that board for one man
gigs for awhile.

A bigger board for bigger shows is in my future. AS long as I'm going
bigger I think I'll go all the way to 32 channels that way I can cover
just about anything I'm likely to do. fOr rightr now for what I use my
system for the little Muckie does what I need it to so long as I"m the
one driving it.

REgards,



Richard Webb
Electric Spider Productions
REplace anything before the @ symbol with elspider for real email

--

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NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 16:40:56 EST
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 21:40:56 GMT
Xref: intern1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com rec.audio.pro:1010144


On 2003-11-20 said:
YEs I use 8 channels just for my
drum module.
I bet those could be submixed on a small line mixer
saving a ton of work at FOH each show
I believe Rolls makes units just for this application
A few different mixers for this app, even stereo which I do use for
this.

SInce when I'm playing these types of gigs usually I'm mixing the
whole thing from stage anyway g. NOt preferred but where the budget
is for these things.

I've submixed my drums and given foh a stereo feed but at that time I
didn't have my monitoring situation on stage set up good enough and he
blew me away with kick and toms through the side fills and I had too
little of other stuff, including vocal. I would do something
different if I were doing the single on a regular basis, give myself a
stereo feed of all instruments through my own system and give foh what
he or she needs for doing an adequate mix out front.

I don't mind giving foh a submix but I like to have the operator be
able to control what he or she is getting. HOpefully the one thing
they have that they are going to need is ears g.



Richard Webb
Electric Spider Productions
REplace anything before the @ symbol with elspider for real email

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