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brassplyer brassplyer is offline
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Default How do you personally shop for Hi-Fi speakers?

I'm not referring to just general principals of what to look for, I mean specifically what do *you* personally do when looking for speakers for recreational listening? Do you regard the listening rooms at Best Buy to be useless or do you think they're good enough to evaluate speakers/amps? Or is there nothing at Best Buy you feel is worth having?

Or do you just use studio monitors?
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Default How do you personally shop for Hi-Fi speakers?

Brassplyer wrote:
I'm not referring to just general principals of what to look for, I mean sp=
ecifically what do *you* personally do when looking for speakers for recrea=
tional listening? Do you regard the listening rooms at Best Buy to be usele=
ss or do you think they're good enough to evaluate speakers/amps? Or is the=
re nothing at Best Buy you feel is worth having?=20


I would go to an actual stereo store, not Best Buy or Radio Shack or the
supermarket, but a place that sells stereo equipment with employees who know
what they are selling, and I would sit down with recordings that I know and
listen to them.

I might start out thinking about a particular speaker manufacturer, then go
look for a dealer that handles that line. But once I got there I would also
listen to whatever other lines they had.

And I would consider going to a stereo show, like the Stereophile show or
the Rocky Mountain Audio Festival or the Capitol Audiofest in order to listen
to a whole lot of different systems at different price ranges in a small
time period. You can walk down the hall and see twenty rooms set up by
twenty different dealers with twenty totally different philosophies.

And then... whatever I am interested in, I would get on evaluation to try in
my own room before buying anything.

Or do you just use studio monitors?


I might... but then it comes back to the same question, how do you choose
them over all the studio monitors out there?
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
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Default How do you personally shop for Hi-Fi speakers?

On 10/06/2017 5:16 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:


Or do you just use studio monitors?


I might... but then it comes back to the same question, how do you choose
them over all the studio monitors out there?
--scott


And how exactly does one define what speaker is a 'studio monitor'. The
main speakers in one of the world's most famous recording studios are
equally domestic hi-fi speakers, albeit a little on the expensive side.

geoff
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On 6/9/2017 7:23 PM, geoff wrote:
And how exactly does one define what speaker is a 'studio monitor'.


Easy. The marketing department tells you.

The
main speakers in one of the world's most famous recording studios are
equally domestic hi-fi speakers, albeit a little on the expensive side.


Several mastering studios use really expensive "domestic" speakers like
Wilsons, though some have moved on to "pro audio" mastering speakers,
some more expensive, some less expensive, most just as big and heavy.


--

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Default How do you personally shop for Hi-Fi speakers?

geoff wrote:
On 10/06/2017 5:16 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:

Or do you just use studio monitors?


I might... but then it comes back to the same question, how do you choose
them over all the studio monitors out there?


And how exactly does one define what speaker is a 'studio monitor'. The
main speakers in one of the world's most famous recording studios are
equally domestic hi-fi speakers, albeit a little on the expensive side.


Exactly. Although one can make some generalizations, that studio monitors
tend to be designed to be analytic rather than to hide faults with recordings
like some home speakers. And they tend to be designed to be difficult to
damage, as they are more apt to be abused by someone mispatching lines or
sending blasts of feedback in the studio than they would be at home.

Also, these days, studio monitors tend to be powered more often than not,
and home speakers tend not to be, although there are plenty of exceptions
to that rule too.

I'm mixing on speakers intended for home listening and I have a pair of
speakers sold for studio monitoring in my bedroom at home.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."


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Phil Allison[_4_] Phil Allison[_4_] is offline
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Default How do you personally shop for Hi-Fi speakers?

Brassplyer wrote:

-----------------

I'm not referring to just general principals of what to look for,
I mean specifically what do *you* personally do when looking for
speakers for recreational listening?


** First off, learn something about domestic hi-fi and loudspeakers made for that purpose.


Do you regard the listening
rooms at Best Buy to be useless or do you think they're good enough
to evaluate speakers/amps? Or is there nothing at Best Buy you feel
is worth having?


** Listen to demos in a shop is the WORST way to chose any hi-fi component.

Many high quality speakers for home use exist, but none are cheap.

There are also any number of genuinely famous or "classis" examples that can be bought on the used market - via Ebay etc.

All depends of your budget and what you expect and need.

..... Phil

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Default How do you personally shop for Hi-Fi speakers?

geoff wrote:

--------------



And how exactly does one define what speaker is a 'studio monitor'.



** Long as the speaker is suitable for the purpose of studio monitoring - which is quite different to home hi-fi listening.

Some requirements are that the speaker be fairly compact, suit being placed against a wall, accommodate a close listening position, be very rugged plus able to produce high SPLs when needed. This generally means having a good dB per watt rating.

Studio monitors have to cope with uncompressed, live signals coming from microphones plus all manner of mishaps that create momentary huge levels.

None of these necessarily apply to domestic hi-fi listening, so hi-fi speaker makers have a much freer hand their designs. The maker can trade off ruggedness and high SPL for higher accuracy and wider response range. The speaker may not suit wall mounting or close sitting positions.

The only high quality speaker I am familiar with that is suited to home and studio monitoring use is the now classic Yamaha NS1000.

For around US$2000 or so for a pair in good condition, it's the biggest bargain you will find.


...... Phil



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Default How do you personally shop for Hi-Fi speakers?

On Friday, June 9, 2017 at 11:51:48 PM UTC-4, Phil Allison wrote:

** Listen to demos in a shop is the WORST way to chose any hi-fi component.



So back to the original question - how do *you* demo speakers you haven't bought yet?
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Default How do you personally shop for Hi-Fi speakers?

Brassplyer wrote:

-----------------

Phil Allison wrote:

** Listen to demos in a shop is the WORST way to chose any hi-fi component.



So back to the original question - how do *you* demo speakers you
haven't bought yet?


** I don't - there is no need to.

FYI: The only commercially made speaker I ever bought were purchased without a demo.

There is not need to PERSONALLY to "demo" amplifiers, CD players or any piece of modern hi-fi electronics. And no point.

The idea that a novice ( or anyone) can TELL with a quick, uncontrolled listen which audio item is best is 100% ABSURD.

However, if you would like to own a *very* good pair of hi-fi AND monitor speakers - search out some Yamaha NS1000s.

If you say you cannot afford them, you are not really serious.

Go buy some ****-box, powered monitors made in China.



..... Phil
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Default How do you personally shop for Hi-Fi speakers?

On Sat, 10 Jun 2017 06:52:14 -0700 (PDT), Brassplyer
wrote:

On Friday, June 9, 2017 at 11:51:48 PM UTC-4, Phil Allison wrote:

** Listen to demos in a shop is the WORST way to chose any hi-fi component.



So back to the original question - how do *you* demo speakers you haven't bought yet?


I do at least have a foolproof method of rejecting a speaker. If, on
first listen, it makes me go "wow", then I rule it out. Wow implies
that there is something going on that is going to get irritating very
quickly.

d


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Default How do you personally shop for Hi-Fi speakers?

Brassplyer wrote:
On Friday, June 9, 2017 at 11:51:48 PM UTC-4, Phil Allison wrote:

** Listen to demos in a shop is the WORST way to chose any hi-fi component.


So back to the original question - how do *you* demo speakers you haven't bought yet?


I sort-of agree with Phil about this, in that you can certainly not make a
final decision that way. But I think you have to listen to demos in the
shop in order to get a sense of what is out there and just how wide the
range of different sounding speakers is.

And I do think that letting the salesguy take control of the demo is a bad
thing. Bring your own material, make them play it on as many speakers as
possible with everything else controlled as much as you can get them to do it.

But in the end auditioning them in your own room is still needed.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
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In article ,
Don Pearce wrote:
On Sat, 10 Jun 2017 06:52:14 -0700 (PDT), Brassplyer
wrote:

On Friday, June 9, 2017 at 11:51:48 PM UTC-4, Phil Allison wrote:

** Listen to demos in a shop is the WORST way to chose any hi-fi component.



So back to the original question - how do *you* demo speakers you haven't bought yet?


I do at least have a foolproof method of rejecting a speaker. If, on
first listen, it makes me go "wow", then I rule it out. Wow implies
that there is something going on that is going to get irritating very
quickly.


Absolutely. Especially if your first thought is "Wow, that sounds so clear!"
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
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brassplyer brassplyer is offline
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Default How do you personally shop for Hi-Fi speakers?

On Saturday, June 10, 2017 at 10:05:19 AM UTC-4, Phil Allison wrote:

So back to the original question - how do *you* demo speakers you
haven't bought yet?


** I don't - there is no need to.

FYI: The only commercially made speaker I ever bought were purchased without a
demo.



How did you decide you wanted them?
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Default How do you personally shop for Hi-Fi speakers?

On 6/10/2017 9:25 AM, Don Pearce wrote:
On Sat, 10 Jun 2017 06:52:14 -0700 (PDT), Brassplyer
wrote:

On Friday, June 9, 2017 at 11:51:48 PM UTC-4, Phil Allison wrote:

** Listen to demos in a shop is the WORST way to chose any hi-fi component.



So back to the original question - how do *you* demo speakers you haven't bought yet?


I do at least have a foolproof method of rejecting a speaker. If, on
first listen, it makes me go "wow", then I rule it out. Wow implies
that there is something going on that is going to get irritating very
quickly.

d


That's good point about the "wow" factor. I was in a high end electronics store
in the
mid '60s and they had a JBL Paragon on display. I had seen the magazine ads and
assumed
it would be an outstanding sounding speaker. Well it was, but not in the way I
expected.
I suppose I had expected it to dazzle me with an outstanding sonic wow quality
of some sort.
After the first few moments, what really impressed me was the fact that, it
seemed like the speaker had disappeared and all I heard was the music. An
orchestra piece, as I recall, very neutral and uncolored.









---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

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geoff geoff is offline
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Default How do you personally shop for Hi-Fi speakers?

On 11/06/2017 1:52 AM, Brassplyer wrote:
On Friday, June 9, 2017 at 11:51:48 PM UTC-4, Phil Allison wrote:

** Listen to demos in a shop is the WORST way to chose any hi-fi component.



So back to the original question - how do *you* demo speakers you haven't bought yet?


Some hi-fi mags might be a place to get some hints.

There are hi-fi mags around that offer practical and sensible advice,
rather than just the esoterica and audiophool variety.

geoff


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Default How do you personally shop for Hi-Fi speakers?

On 11/06/2017 9:09 AM, gray_wolf wrote:
That's good point about the "wow" factor. I was in a high end
electronics store in the
mid '60s and they had a JBL Paragon on display. I had seen the magazine
ads and assumed
it would be an outstanding sounding speaker. Well it was, but not in the
way I expected.
I suppose I had expected it to dazzle me with an outstanding sonic wow
quality of some sort.
After the first few moments, what really impressed me was the fact that,
it seemed like the speaker had disappeared and all I heard was the
music. An orchestra piece, as I recall, very neutral and uncolored.


Interesting comment. I heard the Paragon many times in the 70's and
loved it. BUT "neutral and uncolored" is not something I'd call it. It
had plenty of bass ripple, and the mid horns had plenty of resonances
too. A waterfall plot would be very revealing I imagine. In fact I would
have said that was a good example of the "wow factor". So effortless in
producing a huge dynamic range, but far from "uncolored". OTOH I've
heard many "uncolored" speakers that had no dynamic range and no bass
that I wouldn't want to own.

Trevor.

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Default How do you personally shop for Hi-Fi speakers?

Trevor wrote:

----------------


I heard the Paragon many times in the 70's and
loved it. BUT "neutral and uncolored" is not something I'd call it. It
had plenty of bass ripple, and the mid horns had plenty of resonances
too. A waterfall plot would be very revealing I imagine. In fact I would
have said that was a good example of the "wow factor". So effortless in
producing a huge dynamic range, but far from "uncolored".


** I also heard the famous JBL Paragon in about 1971, at "Instrol Hi-Fi" in York Street, Sydney. Fraid I was singularly unimpressed.

Sounded like an oversize stereo-gram to me.

At the time, contraptions like the Bose 901 and Sonab's "omni" speakers were all the rage.

I disliked them cos they were all *sound effect* producers, not hi-fi speakers.

The marketing puke that backed them up was an insult to one's intelligence.



..... Phil




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Default How do you personally shop for Hi-Fi speakers?

In article , Trevor wrote:
On 11/06/2017 9:09 AM, gray_wolf wrote:
That's good point about the "wow" factor. I was in a high end
electronics store in the
mid '60s and they had a JBL Paragon on display. I had seen the magazine
ads and assumed
it would be an outstanding sounding speaker. Well it was, but not in the
way I expected.
I suppose I had expected it to dazzle me with an outstanding sonic wow
quality of some sort.
After the first few moments, what really impressed me was the fact that,
it seemed like the speaker had disappeared and all I heard was the
music. An orchestra piece, as I recall, very neutral and uncolored.


Interesting comment. I heard the Paragon many times in the 70's and
loved it. BUT "neutral and uncolored" is not something I'd call it. It
had plenty of bass ripple, and the mid horns had plenty of resonances
too. A waterfall plot would be very revealing I imagine. In fact I would
have said that was a good example of the "wow factor". So effortless in
producing a huge dynamic range, but far from "uncolored". OTOH I've
heard many "uncolored" speakers that had no dynamic range and no bass
that I wouldn't want to own.


Compared with what else was available in the mid-sixties, and especially
compared with most of the monkey box speakers designed in the era before
the thiele-small paper, the Paragon, honky as it was, was much more neutral.
It is amazing seeing how far we have come in the loudspeaker world.

Now, by the seventies people were starting to power those things with solid
state amps and discovering that when you put incredibly efficient speakers
on early solid state amps that were biased way down into class B, that the
crossover distortion swamped almost every other character of sound, and that
gave a lot of these high-efficiency speakers a bad reputation.

But... the Paragons were one of those speakers that got used as home speakers,
as studio monitors, and even in small PA rigs. The narrow angle of radiation
reduced room reflection issues in bad rooms. The honk, though, was pretty bad.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
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Default How do you personally shop for Hi-Fi speakers?

On 6/9/2017 1:00 PM, Brassplyer wrote:
I'm not referring to just general principals of what to look for, I mean specifically what do *you* personally do when looking for speakers for recreational listening? Do you regard the listening rooms at Best Buy to be useless or do you think they're good enough to evaluate speakers/amps? Or is there nothing at Best Buy you feel is worth having?

Or do you just use studio monitors?

Although certainly not the way most folks do things, the last thing I
would do is go to a "listening room" that I'm not completely familiar
with. Since I don't hang out in listening rooms, there are none that I
could trust enough to evaluate a speaker's characteristics. Put another
way, how a speaker sounds is interdependent on the room's
characteristics, atmospheric conditions such as humidity and pressure,
and the equipment used to play whatever you're listening to.

So, my approach would be pretty unorthodox; I first would use my eyes! I
want to see a white noise plot and sine wave sweep that was done in an
anechoic chamber of the particular speaker. I could then match the plots
up with my room's characteristics and choose the best fit.

So, I may never listen to them before buying them.

--
best regards,

Neil
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On 6/9/2017 1:00 PM, Brassplyer wrote:
I'm not referring to just general principals of what to look for, I mean specifically what do *you* personally do when looking for speakers for recreational listening?


OK, I'll bite. First I decide how much I want to spend. Then I look over
the literature for speakers in that price range, see what's been
reviewed in a magazine or two that I trust, decide on two or three
possibilities, and then try to find a store that has at least one of
those available for listening. I'll bring in a couple of CDs, take a
listen, and if it sounds OK, buy it.

It's really not important to me to try to compare a few speakers.
Recreational listening isn't critical for me.


--

For a good time, call http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com


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Default How do you personally shop for Hi-Fi speakers?

On 11/06/2017 9:11 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
In article , Trevor wrote:
On 11/06/2017 9:09 AM, gray_wolf wrote:
That's good point about the "wow" factor. I was in a high end
electronics store in the
mid '60s and they had a JBL Paragon on display. I had seen the magazine
ads and assumed
it would be an outstanding sounding speaker. Well it was, but not in the
way I expected.
I suppose I had expected it to dazzle me with an outstanding sonic wow
quality of some sort.
After the first few moments, what really impressed me was the fact that,
it seemed like the speaker had disappeared and all I heard was the
music. An orchestra piece, as I recall, very neutral and uncolored.


Interesting comment. I heard the Paragon many times in the 70's and
loved it. BUT "neutral and uncolored" is not something I'd call it. It
had plenty of bass ripple, and the mid horns had plenty of resonances
too. A waterfall plot would be very revealing I imagine. In fact I would
have said that was a good example of the "wow factor". So effortless in
producing a huge dynamic range, but far from "uncolored". OTOH I've
heard many "uncolored" speakers that had no dynamic range and no bass
that I wouldn't want to own.


Compared with what else was available in the mid-sixties, and especially
compared with most of the monkey box speakers designed in the era before
the thiele-small paper, the Paragon, honky as it was, was much more neutral.
It is amazing seeing how far we have come in the loudspeaker world.


Frankly I don't think we've come any where near as far with speaker
design as with most other areas of audio, excepting perhaps microphones.
As you say the Paragon was pretty good, as was the Hartsfeild before it.
Mid horn design and horn drivers have definitely improved since though.


Now, by the seventies people were starting to power those things with solid
state amps and discovering that when you put incredibly efficient speakers
on early solid state amps that were biased way down into class B, that the
crossover distortion swamped almost every other character of sound, and that
gave a lot of these high-efficiency speakers a bad reputation.


Listened to the Paragon *many* times, always powered by the JBL SA660,
which was pretty good for it's day.


But... the Paragons were one of those speakers that got used as home speakers,
as studio monitors, and even in small PA rigs. The narrow angle of radiation
reduced room reflection issues in bad rooms.


However any corner horn relies on the rooms walls to complete the horn
mouth. Unless your room was 9' wide, the Paragon had a far too small
horn mouth for anything like flat bass response, nor even a steady roll
off unfortunately. Still impressive however, but at a fairly substantial
price for the day. Most new cars were cheaper here than the Paragon at
the time. Hard to imagine it was more expensive to build.

Trevor.

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On 12/06/2017 5:34 AM, Mike Rivers wrote:
Recreational listening isn't critical for me.


Many of my non musical friends say that too. Listening to music has been
the main thing in my life since before I was a teenager! Recreational as
much as professional even in later years.

Trevor.




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When you knock on a speaker cabinet,
does it knock back? Move on!
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On 12/06/2017 11:17 PM, wrote:
When you knock on a speaker cabinet,
does it knock back? Move on!


No corn-flake-packet cabinets - that's for sure.

geoff
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Neil wrote:
On 6/9/2017 1:00 PM, Brassplyer wrote:
I'm not referring to just general principals of what to look for,
I mean specifically what do *you* personally do when looking for
speakers for recreational listening? Do you regard the listening
rooms at Best Buy to be useless or do you think they're good enough
to evaluate speakers/amps? Or is there nothing at Best Buy you feel
is worth having?

Or do you just use studio monitors?

Although certainly not the way most folks do things, the last thing
I would do is go to a "listening room" that I'm not completely
familiar with. Since I don't hang out in listening rooms, there are
none that I could trust enough to evaluate a speaker's
characteristics. Put another way, how a speaker sounds is
interdependent on the room's characteristics, atmospheric conditions
such as humidity and pressure, and the equipment used to play
whatever you're listening to.

So, my approach would be pretty unorthodox; I first would use my
eyes! I want to see a white noise plot and sine wave sweep that was
done in an anechoic chamber of the particular speaker. I could then
match the plots up with my room's characteristics and choose the best
fit.

So, I may never listen to them before buying them.



When I last bought monitors, they were as close as I could get
to something I was somewhat familiar with. At the time, they were
for sale at MARS which had a listening room. I brought some of my own
stuff with known problems. I heard those about right and bought
them.

I'd have rather had a nice 2.1 Blue Sky setup, but this was 1/10th
the price and good enough.

The only thing I don't like about them is that I am guessing what
many car systems will make the material sound like in the mid
bass. But I can work around that. Ideally, I'd put a sub on but
I can't quite get to adding a sub just to simulate bad car audio.

--
Les Cargill


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Les Cargill:

Mid-bass is the BANE of factory car
sound systems. LOL!
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My McIntosh 3 ways were gifted to me, so the price was right and they sound great in my living room!

And Scott, we don't need to picture anything in your bedroom!
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On 10/06/2017 5:00 AM, Brassplyer wrote:
I'm not referring to just general principals of what to look for, I mean specifically what do *you* personally do when looking for speakers for recreational listening? Do you regard the listening rooms at Best Buy to be useless or do you think they're good enough to evaluate speakers/amps? Or is there nothing at Best Buy you feel is worth having?

Or do you just use studio monitors?



Extrapolating from that stupid ultra-fi article , check he

https://www.whathifi.com/best-buys/h...hi-fi-speakers

and

https://www.whathifi.com/best-buys/h...hi-fi-speakers


geoff
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Looked at the whathifi links. Not a fan
of this trend toward lower impedance
in home speakers these days. A couple
8s in their listings, but mostly 6ohm or
lower. My 1995 JVC receiver specifies
8-16ohm, but it sounds alright to me,
has Pro Logic surround, and is likely
the last main listening room receiver
I will ever own! I just hope down the
road - knock on particle board! - I will
still be able to find 8-12ohm speakers
for it.
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Mike Rivers[_2_] Mike Rivers[_2_] is offline
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Default How do you personally shop for Hi-Fi speakers?

On 6/14/2017 7:49 AM, wrote:
Not a fan
of this trend toward lower impedance
in home speakers these days. A couple
8s in their listings, but mostly 6ohm or
lower. My 1995 JVC receiver specifies
8-16ohm, but it sounds alright to me


People who love their 20+ year old gear manage to find ways to keep it
providing the kind of sound they bought it for. But you're not just
dealing with a loudspeaker or an amplifier here, you're dealing with a
_system_. Loudspeaker manufacturers who either came into the business in
recent years or are managing to stay in business for 30+ years are
making products in 2017 designed for people who will be buying power
amplifiers in 2017.

If you want to take advantage of the progress in loudspeaker design, you
may have to adapt and get an amplifier that's designed to drive that
kind of speaker. Otherwise, accept the compromise that a modern speaker
won't play as loud as your old speaker since your amplifier may not be
able to deliver the current that the new speaker is expecting.

I just hope down the
road - knock on particle board! - I will
still be able to find 8-12ohm speakers
for it.


You probably will, but you will probably be able to get better sound
from a modern speaker if you drive it with a modern amplifier - unless,
of course, you've lost enough of your hearing, or you don't listen to
contemporary music, so that a new speaker performing at a lower level
than it's capable won't matter to you.

Even, I, who has a house full of computers running Windows XP and using
parallel IDE disk drives, am beginning to replace (or rather add to the
junk pile) them with slightly newer computers running Windows 7 and
using SATA drives. And I'm hot on the search for a new smart phone to
replace my 5 year old one that's losing apps by the week as host
programs want an updated version of their app that won't run on my
phone. Some call this progress.



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Default How do you personally shop for Hi-Fi speakers?

Mike Rivers wrote: "kind of speaker. Otherwise, accept the compromise that a
modern speaker won't play as loud as your old speaker since your amplifier
may not be able to deliver the current that the new speaker is expecting. "


Isn't that the other way round -
that a lower-impedance speaker
hooked up to the same amp
will play louder, given same
volume setting?


As far as phones/updates go,
I just don't do them - until a
specific app no longer works
on the device - which for me
has been an almost nonexistent
occurence.
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Mike Rivers wrote: " or you don't listen to contemporary music,"


Contemporary POPULAR(top-40, Hip-Hop,
Country) music is so heavily processed it will
sound like mush, whether played on a nice
new pair of floor-standings, or my 26-yr old dB
Plus 880 mains still in factory condition. And
contemporary releases in niche genres, like
acoustic, jazz, or classical, are exhibiting the
same symptoms, more subtle, of such abuse,
so, thanks but no thanks.


If something sounds good, and everyone
you have over the house says it sounds good,
y'don't F with it, right ol pal?
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On 6/14/2017 9:11 AM, wrote:
Isn't that the other way round -
that a lower-impedance speaker
hooked up to the same amp
will play louder, given same
volume setting?


There's a law about that - Ohm's Law. A given amplifier can put out only
a specific maximum amount of voltage. This is limited by the power
supply. A given amplifier can supply only a specific maximum amount of
current. This is limited by the output transistors or (if it has one)
the output transformer.

For a given voltage, the current is a function of the impedance. Power
is voltage times current (or voltage squared divided by impedance), and
for a given speaker efficiency, power is what determines loudness.
Efficiency can cover a pretty wide range. A 1940s Altec Voice of the
Theater speaker can fill a movie theater with only 25 watts of power. A
modern, highly damped, closed baffle speaker might require 100 watts to
achieve the same SPL.

The "lower impedance plays louder" alternative fact comes from the world
of low power mobile devices. Your 1995 amplifier likely has a maximum
output voltage of 30 to 50 volts, but your phone, which is powered by a
2.5 volt battery, has a maximum output of 2.5 volts.

If you have a 100 ohm earphone, the maximum power you can get into that
earphone is a bit over 60 milliwatts. If that earphone is loud enough
for you at that power level, fine. But you'll probably want it louder
than that. But if you have a 16 ohm earphone, you can deliver 400
milliwatts to it.

In practice, you may not actually be able to do that because the output
current of the phone's headphone amplifier is likely to be limited, both
to preserve battery life and protect your hearing (and your earphones).
However, there's a happy medium in there somewhere and, in practice,
with a modern low power device, a low impedance earphone will play
louder than one with a significantly higher impedance.

As far as phones/updates go,
I just don't do them - until a
specific app no longer works
on the device - which for me
has been an almost nonexistent
occurence.


How old is your phone? I think the reason why most people don't have the
problem that I'm having is that they're on a wireless plan that gets
them a new phone every year or two, and they happily take advantage of
that opportunity. I'm on the AT&T GoPhone (pay as you go) plan and my
last "upgrade" about 2 years ago was a refurbished low-end Android smart
phone phone for $35 that was already 2 years out of date. It worked
great for a couple of years, but now there are many apps that, when I
open them, give me a pop-up saying "There's a newer version of this app.
Do you want to update it now?" When I say yes, more often now I get the
message "this version is not compatible with your phone."

I suspect that it's looking for a newer version of the operating system
(like some Windows programs require Windows 7 at minimum and won't run
on XP), and phone manufacturers rarely bother issuing OS updates other
than security patches, because they expect their customers to get a new
phone before they really need a newer OS.

At least amplifiers and speakers don't constantly nag you to upgrade.



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Trevor Trevor is offline
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Default How do you personally shop for Hi-Fi speakers?

On 14/06/2017 11:57 PM, Mike Rivers wrote:
Efficiency can cover a pretty wide range. A 1940s Altec Voice of the
Theater speaker can fill a movie theater with only 25 watts of power. A
modern, highly damped, closed baffle speaker might require 100 watts to
achieve the same SPL.


I think you might have missed a zero there. Altec VOT a *lot* more than
6dB more efficient than any small "highly damped, closed baffle
speaker". 100W ain't gonna do it.

Trevor.


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Phil Allison[_4_] Phil Allison[_4_] is offline
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Trevor wrote:

-------------


I think you might have missed a zero there. Altec VOT a *lot* more than
6dB more efficient than any small "highly damped, closed baffle
speaker". 100W ain't gonna do it.



** Yep - VOT systems regular;y exceeded 106dB/watt.

Small AR style sealed box speakers rarely exceeded 86dB/watt.

20dB = a power ratio of 100:1.



...... Phil


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Default How do you personally shop for Hi-Fi speakers?

On 6/14/2017 10:11 AM, Trevor wrote:
I think you might have missed a zero there. Altec VOT a *lot* more than
6dB more efficient than any small "highly damped, closed baffle
speaker". 100W ain't gonna do it.


Whatever. My post was just an illustration of one reason why the
"general rule" is too general.


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Trevor Trevor is offline
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Default How do you personally shop for Hi-Fi speakers?

On 15/06/2017 1:51 AM, Mike Rivers wrote:
On 6/14/2017 10:11 AM, Trevor wrote:
I think you might have missed a zero there. Altec VOT a *lot* more
than 6dB more efficient than any small "highly damped, closed baffle
speaker". 100W ain't gonna do it.


Whatever. My post was just an illustration of one reason why the
"general rule" is too general.


But a good example of what many people do think regarding wattage
requirements. They do not understand one speaker can put out less SPL
with over ten times the input power. Or that it may not even be able to
handle that power anyway, so can never match the 25W speaker.

Trevor.

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Default How do you personally shop for Hi-Fi speakers?

On Thu, 15 Jun 2017 19:36:31 +1000, Trevor wrote:

On 15/06/2017 1:51 AM, Mike Rivers wrote:
On 6/14/2017 10:11 AM, Trevor wrote:
I think you might have missed a zero there. Altec VOT a *lot* more
than 6dB more efficient than any small "highly damped, closed baffle
speaker". 100W ain't gonna do it.


Whatever. My post was just an illustration of one reason why the
"general rule" is too general.


But a good example of what many people do think regarding wattage
requirements. They do not understand one speaker can put out less SPL
with over ten times the input power. Or that it may not even be able to
handle that power anyway, so can never match the 25W speaker.

Trevor.


The only thing most people understand is the angle the volume control
is at when it starts to get loud. The further anti-clockwise, the more
powerful the amp. Face palms all round, but that is the way it is.

d

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Don Pearce:

I've heard of clockwise, counter-clockwise,
but never heard of "anti-clockwise". What
the heck is that?
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