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MarcoM MarcoM is offline
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Default Zoom H4 digital recorder?

Someone can help me with experiences with this recorder? especially
about the microphones quality?
Marco

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zigo.zago zigo.zago is offline
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Default Zoom H4 digital recorder?

I microfoni suoi non sono spettacolari, ma neppure indecenti.
Hai sempre la possibilitą di usare due microfoni esterni, visto che l'H4 č
dotato di due ingressi con phantom.
Dipende molto dall'uso che ne devi fare...

Se vuoi altre info, scrivimi in privato (togli tutti gli spazi):

t i o r b a @ g m a i l . c o m


ZZ




"MarcoM" ha scritto nel messaggio
...
Someone can help me with experiences with this recorder? especially about
the microphones quality?
Marco

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Thomas Jespersen Thomas Jespersen is offline
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Default Zoom H4 digital recorder?

On Thu, 08 Mar 2007 17:29:28 GMT, MarcoM wrote:

Someone can help me with experiences with this recorder? especially
about the microphones quality?
Marco


Can't speak for it myself but take a look at taperssection.com (use the
search function). They have discussed it several times.

Another option in same pricerange is edirol r-09.
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MarcoM MarcoM is offline
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Thomas Jespersen, 08/03/2007 19.08:


Another option in same pricerange is edirol r-09.


It seems that R-09 can record some click during recording levels setting...
Marco

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Harry Lavo Harry Lavo is offline
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Default Zoom H4 digital recorder?


"Thomas Jespersen" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 08 Mar 2007 17:29:28 GMT, MarcoM wrote:

Someone can help me with experiences with this recorder? especially
about the microphones quality?
Marco


Can't speak for it myself but take a look at taperssection.com (use the
search function). They have discussed it several times.

Another option in same pricerange is edirol r-09.


Just Google "Zoom H4" and you'll run across a half dozen "reviews".




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[email protected] barchdan@hotmail.com is offline
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Default Zoom H4 digital recorder?

On Mar 8, 12:29 pm, MarcoM wrote:
Someone can help me with experiences with this recorder? especially
about the microphones quality?
Marco

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http://www.2090.org/zoom/bbs/index.php

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Dave Morrison Dave Morrison is offline
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Default Zoom H4 digital recorder?


"zigo.zago" wrote in message
.. .
I microfoni suoi non sono spettacolari, ma neppure indecenti.
Hai sempre la possibilitą di usare due microfoni esterni, visto che l'H4 č
dotato di due ingressi con phantom.
Dipende molto dall'uso che ne devi fare...

Se vuoi altre info, scrivimi in privato (togli tutti gli spazi):

t i o r b a @ g m a i l . c o m


ZZ


Yeah, what he said.....ditto. ;-)

dave





"MarcoM" ha scritto nel messaggio
...
Someone can help me with experiences with this recorder? especially about
the microphones quality?
Marco

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Steve Steve is offline
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Default Zoom H4 digital recorder?

In article ,
MarcoM wrote:

Thomas Jespersen, 08/03/2007 19.08:


Another option in same pricerange is edirol r-09.


It seems that R-09 can record some click during recording levels setting...
Marco


Cite your sources, because I have an Edirol R-09 and don't have any
problems. It's smaller than the H4, easier to use, and the build
quality (made in Japan by Roland) is superior.

Roland/Edirol vs Samson/Zoom. Quality vs cheap.

The R-09 is easier to use because you hit the dedicated record button
twice to record. Once to put it in record mode where you set levels,
and the 2nd time to record.

The H4 has sloppy feeling buttons that have multiple uses, where if you
want to have it record, you have to make sure that pushed button is in
record mode.

There were lots of threads where the H4 had the clicking problem.
I'm in all the recording forums, where people post about both of these
units, and it's clear the R-09 is preferred. The only people who say
the H4 is better, are the people who are defending their $100 savings in
purchasing the H4 over the R-09. If they were the same price, I doubt
anyone would buy the H4 over the R-09. If the $100 price difference is
important, the H4 is better than anything else at it's price.

I'd still buy it over a minidisc.

Again, tell me where you read the Edirol R-09 had a clicking problem?
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Baabin Baabin is offline
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Default Zoom H4 digital recorder?

Steve,

I think perhaps you should get your act together here and take a look at the
comparisons on the Swee****er Sound website. I can from that show you where
there are several areas the R9 is not up to the Zoom H4 level, and that is
from a company that sells most of the competitors as well. Wake up and smell
the roses, and quit rationalizing.

Bruce Smith

"Steve" wrote in message
...
In article ,
MarcoM wrote:

Thomas Jespersen, 08/03/2007 19.08:


Another option in same pricerange is edirol r-09.


It seems that R-09 can record some click during recording levels
setting...
Marco


Cite your sources, because I have an Edirol R-09 and don't have any
problems. It's smaller than the H4, easier to use, and the build
quality (made in Japan by Roland) is superior.

Roland/Edirol vs Samson/Zoom. Quality vs cheap.

The R-09 is easier to use because you hit the dedicated record button
twice to record. Once to put it in record mode where you set levels,
and the 2nd time to record.

The H4 has sloppy feeling buttons that have multiple uses, where if you
want to have it record, you have to make sure that pushed button is in
record mode.

There were lots of threads where the H4 had the clicking problem.
I'm in all the recording forums, where people post about both of these
units, and it's clear the R-09 is preferred. The only people who say
the H4 is better, are the people who are defending their $100 savings in
purchasing the H4 over the R-09. If they were the same price, I doubt
anyone would buy the H4 over the R-09. If the $100 price difference is
important, the H4 is better than anything else at it's price.

I'd still buy it over a minidisc.

Again, tell me where you read the Edirol R-09 had a clicking problem?


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MarcoM MarcoM is offline
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Default Zoom H4 digital recorder?

Steve, 09/03/2007 8.29:


Again, tell me where you read the Edirol R-09 had a clicking problem?


An owner of the R-09 told me you can hear an electronic click for every
step of the volume setting, but this is listenable only recording very
soft sounds.
Marco

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Mike Rivers Mike Rivers is offline
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Default Zoom H4 digital recorder?

On Mar 9, 12:25 pm, MarcoM wrote:

An owner of the R-09 told me you can hear an electronic click for every
step of the volume setting


I believe I have read the same thing, and in fact my Jukebox 3 does a
brief mute each step of the gain setting. But my philosophy is that
you set the record level once (correctly, of course) and then leave
it alone through the duration of the recording. You may generate a few
clicks at the start while you're establishing the correct setting, but
once that's done and you leave it alone, it should be no problem.

People who think they have to ride the gain throughout a recording
aren't "digital ready." It's certainly reasonable, providing you have
the skill, to ride the gain on a singer when recording a vocal TRACK,
but that isn't what you use these recorders for.


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MarcoM MarcoM is offline
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Default Zoom H4 digital recorder?

Mike Rivers, 09/03/2007 19.28:

People who think they have to ride the gain throughout a recording
aren't "digital ready." It's certainly reasonable, providing you have
the skill, to ride the gain on a singer when recording a vocal TRACK,
but that isn't what you use these recorders for.


I know it, I recorded a lot of shows through last ten years with my MD +
mics and battery box, always without changing rec level (except for the
first 1 or 2 times).
Anyway this is a defect, and not a good thing for any recorder.
Marco


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Mike Rivers Mike Rivers is offline
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Default Zoom H4 digital recorder?

On Mar 9, 2:36 pm, MarcoM wrote:

Anyway this is a defect, and not a good thing for any recorder.


Call it what you will, but you can't use what they don't make. However
understanding and work-arounds allow us to get a lot of good use out
of defective equipment.

Hell, if I wanted a computer without defects I'd be using my slide
rule and the Post Office more often.

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Tobiah Tobiah is offline
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Default Zoom H4 digital recorder?

Dave Morrison wrote:
"zigo.zago" wrote in message
.. .
I microfoni suoi non sono spettacolari, ma neppure indecenti.
Hai sempre la possibilitą di usare due microfoni esterni, visto che l'H4 č
dotato di due ingressi con phantom.
Dipende molto dall'uso che ne devi fare...


Yeah, what he said.....ditto. ;-)


He was saying that he was ugly, and his mother
dresses him funny.

--
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Default Zoom H4 digital recorder?

In article ,
"Baabin" wrote:

Steve,

I think perhaps you should get your act together here and take a look at the
comparisons on the Swee****er Sound website. I can from that show you where
there are several areas the R9 is not up to the Zoom H4 level, and that is
from a company that sells most of the competitors as well. Wake up and smell
the roses, and quit rationalizing.

Bruce Smith


You looked at a retail site where they probably make more money selling
Zoom than Edirol. Why don't you do some research where people don't
benefit from a sale, and tell their real world experiences, like a
recording forum?

I suppose if you go to the Zoom site, they'll also tell you why you
should buy their recorder over the competitors.

Taperssection.com would be a good start.


I happen to have my act together. I did a ton of research. I also
listened to each one, and held each one in my hand. I'll admit that
most of what I know about the H4's faults is from Taperssection.com
forums where people are really into recording, everything from blank
media to hardware, and I do own a R-09 and use it all the time.

Since you seem to be commenting on my lack of knowledge of these
recorders, and sticking up for what you feel is the superior H4 - Do you
actually own one, or are you just mouthing off?


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Mike Rivers Mike Rivers is offline
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Default Zoom H4 digital recorder?

On Mar 10, 4:29 am, Steve wrote:

You looked at a retail site where they probably make more money selling
Zoom than Edirol. Why don't you do some research where people don't
benefit from a sale, and tell their real world experiences, like a
recording forum?


You mean a recording forum where people do their research by reading
the forum? Forums tend to have their "favorite" products - for
instance you can't say "I want a compressor" around here without
someone saying "RNC," even people who have never used one. And you get
the opinions of individuals who may have compared two at a store,
chose one, found it was OK, and so that's the one they recommend.

Magazines, even ones with review that aren't subsidized by
advertisers, rarely do "shootouts" but you might be able to compare
objective articles if you wait long enough to see reviews of the
different units you want to compare. But by the time the review you've
been waiting for comes out, the first unit reviewed has been
discontinued or superseded.

So your best bet is to do your own evaluation. Don't worry about
what's best, look for what meets your needs, including your
performance standards. And be prepared to accept some compromises -
nothing has it all.

I happen to have my act together. I did a ton of research. I also
listened to each one, and held each one in my hand. I'll admit that
most of what I know about the H4's faults is from Taperssection.com
forums where people are really into recording, everything from blank
media to hardware, and I do own a R-09 and use it all the time.


What are the qualifications of the Tapers? If some (or one) said he
came home with a blank card instead of a recording, does he know if
the problem was really with the recorder? The card? How the card was
prepared? Cockpit trouble? One man's "all you have to do is push a
button to start recording" is another man's "You can start recording
with one button after you go through two menus to make sure you have
everything set right, but bring a flashlight because you can't see the
display in the dark." You can think you've done your homework
thoroughly and find that you were studying the wrong books or went to
the wrong school.

There are no guarantees with reviews no matter where you read them.

Since you seem to be commenting on my lack of knowledge of these
recorders, and sticking up for what you feel is the superior H4 - Do you
actually own one, or are you just mouthing off?


I'm just mouthing off. I'd like very much to try a Z4 myself, but it's
not convenient for me to buy one and I don't know anyone who owns one,
so I'm happy enough doing without. I'm actually more eager to try the
Z2 when it comes out. While I like the idea of being able to use real
mics with the Z4, its audio would have to be awfully good (something
for which I haven't seen any quantitative or even trustworthy
subjective evaluation yet) before I'd use it for anything but an
informal recording, for which the built-in mics would probably be just
fine. And for something that I'd want to pull out of my pocket or
guitar case, the Z2 fits better than the Z4.

The Edirol R09 would serve just as well but the Z2 is cheaper and the
difference in sound may not justify the difference in price for my
application. For yours, whatever that might be, it might indeed sound
$100 better.

So I don't have any reason to trust you any more or less than anyone
else I don't know, who's work I don't know, who hasn't taken it apart
and told me what's inside, who hasn't made bench measurements and
published them. And at this point I don't need one enough to put up my
own money and try it myself.


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Steve Steve is offline
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Default Zoom H4 digital recorder?

In article m,
"Mike Rivers" wrote:

On Mar 10, 4:29 am, Steve wrote:


I'm just mouthing off. I'd like very much to try a Z4 myself, but it's
not convenient for me to buy one and I don't know anyone who owns one,
so I'm happy enough doing without. I'm actually more eager to try the
Z2 when it comes out. While I like the idea of being able to use real
mics with the Z4, its audio would have to be awfully good (something
for which I haven't seen any quantitative or even trustworthy
subjective evaluation yet) before I'd use it for anything but an
informal recording, for which the built-in mics would probably be just
fine. And for something that I'd want to pull out of my pocket or
guitar case, the Z2 fits better than the Z4.

The Edirol R09 would serve just as well but the Z2 is cheaper and the
difference in sound may not justify the difference in price for my
application. For yours, whatever that might be, it might indeed sound
$100 better.

So I don't have any reason to trust you any more or less than anyone
else I don't know, who's work I don't know, who hasn't taken it apart
and told me what's inside, who hasn't made bench measurements and
published them. And at this point I don't need one enough to put up my
own money and try it myself.


Mike, the reality of the situation is, as far as sound goes, the Edirol
and Zoom models are going to sound similar, with their cheap built-in
preamps and mics. Sound quality, as we know, is subjective anyway.
Making the right/best choice comes down to other things.

For me, it came down to real world usage. I liked that the Edirol unit
was smaller. An inch in length and a half inch in width may not seem
like much until you try and fit it in your pocket.

There's also the battery time advantage in the Edirol. 4 hrs for the
Zoom vs 6 hours for the Edirol.

There a 2GB SD Card limit (unless there's been a recent upgrade) for the
Zoom, and an 8GB card limit in the Edirol (the firmware has been
upgraded a number of times in the last few months), and recording at a
higher resolution gets you much more time with the Edirol. That may not
matter to some who are recording 1 hour concerts, but I like to record
4+ hour gigs, and with the Edirol, I can record 4 hours at the highest
resolution.


I also have to mention the dedicated "record" button and how easy it is
to just start a recording on the Edirol without going thru menus.


Who can say if $100 is worth having those differences, but people do pay
more for the luxury of a BMW vs. a Chevy, even though they both take you
to the same place.

I'll also mention that in my area, the H4 is $299 and the Edirol is $399.
I found a source that gave me 15% off the Edirol, and I got it for $339,
so for me, it was $40 more than the H4 (no discount was available), and
for those reasons I gave above, it was $40 well spent.

Best of luck.

Steve
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Mike Rivers Mike Rivers is offline
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On Mar 11, 4:05 am, Steve wrote:
Mike, the reality of the situation is, as far as sound goes, the Edirol
and Zoom models are going to sound similar, with their cheap built-in
preamps and mics.


I figured as much. But both of them have received great praise for
their sound when using the built-in microphones. Just because of the
way that they can reasonably be placed, I wouldn't expect spectacular
results. Is anyone really going to put one up on a mic stand unless
it's being used in something like a band rehearsal where nobody's
looking. I'd be more interested in knowing how a boundary, like a
table, affects the mics. I'd be inclined to put either of them on a
table with the bottom surface on the table and the mics raised by at
least the height of the recorder, but neither one looks like it would
be stable like that.

For me, it came down to real world usage. I liked that the Edirol unit
was smaller. An inch in length and a half inch in width may not seem
like much until you try and fit it in your pocket.


That would be the same for me, but first I'd need to decide if I was
going to use it at all, or rather, use it enough to justify the cost,
low as it is. I'd love to have a $1,000 digital camera because I like
quality things, but I bought a $100 camera because I take about a
dozen pictures a year, and most of them are for articles and my $100
camera is good enough. Back when I carried a cassette recorder with me
to learn songs at parties and festivals, I would have welcomed one of
these flash memory recorders. But today I don't do that, so that's a
big chunk of usage I wouldn't get from it. I need something that's
cheap enough to not use, if that makes any sense.

There a 2GB SD Card limit (unless there's been a recent upgrade) for the
Zoom, and an 8GB card limit in the Edirol


That's not a big deal for me. While memory cards keep getting larger,
it will be a long time before they're inexpensive enough to put on the
shelf and not re-use (and then how the heck are you going to file
them, with no space to even write the contents on them). If I'm going
to record more than a couple of hours in a shot, it will be 10 to 20
hours, and I want it on a hard drive. Micro Center is selling 2 GB SD
cards for $15 now, so I'd probably get one of those (assuming it works
in the recorder - camera folks have found some cards that don't work
in some cameras and I assume the same is true with recorders) and it
would be all I'd ever need. I might get one more as a spare.

Edirol is inclined to do firmware updates, Samson (Zoom) isn't. So
while they say that its memory capacity may be extended, I wouldn't
hold my breath. I'm still waiting for them to come up with a working
version of the meter/gain control application for their USB
microphone. The one that they released when they introduced the first
of those mics didn't work at all (Tech Support confirmed it, but it's
not really necessary) but it looked pretty. I think it's still on
their web site with a link to download it. It's possible that it's
been updated since they now have a Universal Binary version for the
Mac. I haven't bothered checking it out again.

I also have to mention the dedicated "record" button and how easy it is
to just start a recording on the Edirol without going thru menus.


The Zoom has a Record button. I assume there's a certain amount of
menu selection to set parameters, but once that's done, unless you
want to change something, is there more to recording than pushing the
button? As I recall, you have to press it twice. The first press puts
you in Rec/Pause so you can check the record level, the next press
starts recording. That makes perfectly good sense to me, though
something more convoluted probably wouldn't.

I'll also mention that in my area, the H4 is $299 and the Edirol is $399.


That seems to be pretty standard. I've never seen either one for less,
so I guess your 15% discount must have been an unadvertised deal. But
until I know that I'd be happy with either one and get some mileage
out of it, I'm holding out for that $500 hard disk recorder with
phantom powered XLR inputs and decent preamps that would replace two
pieces of gear for remotes. I'm curious about the Korg DSD recorder,
but the big version is $1,000. While I have the cash, I might find it
hard to justify as long as the Jukebox still works.


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Mike, the reality of the situation is, as far as sound goes, the Edirol
andZoommodels are going to sound similar, with their cheap built-in
preamps and mics. Sound quality, as we know, is subjective anyway.
Making the right/best choice comes down to other things.


Lurker jumping into the middle of this conversation. I'm not an audio
pro, I'm an acoustic musician interested in live recording in my home,
or away, of unamplified acoustic instruments. I own the Microtrac,
R-09 and H-4 (not to mention a few minidisc portables). To my ears,
what I hear captured by the H-4 with it's internal mics sounds better
than what I hear with the other devices. I don't deal with specs on
audio devices, but the H-4 has much less hiss on playback and the
sound of the instrument is much more realistic to me.

The size of the R-09 can't be beat, but I agree it is subjective and I
think the H-4 sounds better!


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e.maynard e.maynard is offline
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Default Zoom H4 digital recorder?

For the kind of recorder it is (Inexpensive, quick, portable & easy to
use), I think the R-09 is the solid choice.
Less goofing around with buttons and so forth. Transfers are quick. Me like.


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Martin Doppelbauer Martin Doppelbauer is offline
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The size of the R-09 can't be beat, but I agree it is subjective and I
think the H-4 sounds better!

The H-4 is definitely much better in terms of sound quality. Both the
internal mics are (much) better and also the mic preamps are better (less
hiss) than those of the Edirol. I own the H-4 and have listened to a couple
of direct comparisons against the R-09.
The Edirol however is smaller than the Zoom and also its built quality is
better. The switches on the Zoom are very small - almost like DIP-Switches.
Overall the H-4 doesn't feel very solid.

No you have to sort out your priorities ;-)
Martin



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