[Gray_Wolf]

I found a copy of Adobe Audition 1.5 And installed on
my Win7 x64, AMD Athlon 64 X2 2.61 GHz with 6GB Ram.


In Audition 1.5 I loaded a 14.5 MB, 6 min mp3 file and it
took 15 seconds to load. I did a 'save as', after few edits,
it took 5 seconds

The same file loaded in Audition CS6 in ~2 seconds.
Saved in about 4 seconds. Apparently CS6 decodes faster
than it encodes.

Without checking out all the small bits Audition 1.5 seems very serviceable.
It uses mp3PRO® audio coding technology licensed from Coding Technologies,
Fraunhofer IIS and Thomson multimedia.

I'm not sure what encoder Audition CS6 uses. Lame?
Audition CS6 works with other formats like Flac, ogg and ape.

Don't know what to say to the OP except check your settings
like cache and temp file location, do a fresh install and
make sure something else is not stealing your CPU and HDD
resources. Trust me, it happens.

[Rick Ruskin]

On Thu, 12 Nov 2015 02:14:17 -0600, gray_wolf
wrote:

I found a copy of Adobe Audition 1.5 And installed on
my Win7 x64, AMD Athlon 64 X2 2.61 GHz with 6GB Ram.


In Audition 1.5 I loaded a 14.5 MB, 6 min mp3 file and it
took 15 seconds to load. I did a 'save as', after few edits,
it took 5 seconds

The same file loaded in Audition CS6 in ~2 seconds.
Saved in about 4 seconds. Apparently CS6 decodes faster
than it encodes.

Without checking out all the small bits Audition 1.5 seems very serviceable.
It uses mp3PRO® audio coding technology licensed from Coding Technologies,
Fraunhofer IIS and Thomson multimedia.

I'm not sure what encoder Audition CS6 uses. Lame?
Audition CS6 works with other formats like Flac, ogg and ape.

Don't know what to say to the OP except check your settings
like cache and temp file location, do a fresh install and
make sure something else is not stealing your CPU and HDD
resources. Trust me, it happens.




I have no intention of "upgrading" past Audition 1.5 until forced to
do so. I tried the nightmare that was Version 3 and concluded to
stick with what works with little to know problems.


Rick Ruskin
Lion Dog Music- Seattle WA
http://liondogmusic.com

[Nil[_2_]]

On 12 Nov 2015, Rick Ruskin wrote in
rec.audio.pro:

I have no intention of "upgrading" past Audition 1.5 until forced
to do so. I tried the nightmare that was Version 3 and concluded
to stick with what works with little to know problems.

What's wrong with ver. 3? I've used it a bit and it seemed to be a bit
more resource-intensive, the interface and menus were changed a bit,
but it seemed to have the same feature set and to work as well as ver.
1.5. I got the impression that after a short period of adjustment I'd
be right back on track. Am I missing something?

[Rick Ruskin]

On Thu, 12 Nov 2015 14:11:55 -0500, Nil
wrote:

On 12 Nov 2015, Rick Ruskin wrote in
rec.audio.pro:

I have no intention of "upgrading" past Audition 1.5 until forced
to do so. I tried the nightmare that was Version 3 and concluded
to stick with what works with little to know problems.

What's wrong with ver. 3? I've used it a bit and it seemed to be a bit
more resource-intensive, the interface and menus were changed a bit,
but it seemed to have the same feature set and to work as well as ver.
1.5. I got the impression that after a short period of adjustment I'd
be right back on track. Am I missing something?


I hated that I needed to name a track before recording it. It was
glitchy as all hell. And I thought the GUI was extremely cumbersome.
All I need a DAW program for is to capture, edit, and play back. I
handle eveything via a console.


Rick Ruskin
Lion Dog Music- Seattle WA
http://liondogmusic.com

[Nil[_2_]]

On 12 Nov 2015, Rick Ruskin wrote in
rec.audio.pro:

I hated that I needed to name a track before recording it. It was
glitchy as all hell. And I thought the GUI was extremely
cumbersome. All I need a DAW program for is to capture, edit, and
play back. I handle eveything via a console.

I guess you were using the multi-track features. I only used it as a
stereo recorder and editor, and I didn't need to name the track, just
it the big red button and go. The editing features seem to be about the
same as before.

I always found the multi-track part of Audition 1.5 and 2 to be very
cumbersome, so I guess I trained myself away from that.

[geoff]

On 13/11/2015 9:35 a.m., Rick Ruskin wrote:
On Thu, 12 Nov 2015 14:11:55 -0500, Nil
wrote:

On 12 Nov 2015, Rick Ruskin wrote in
rec.audio.pro:

I have no intention of "upgrading" past Audition 1.5 until forced
to do so. I tried the nightmare that was Version 3 and concluded
to stick with what works with little to know problems.
What's wrong with ver. 3? I've used it a bit and it seemed to be a bit
more resource-intensive, the interface and menus were changed a bit,
but it seemed to have the same feature set and to work as well as ver.
1.5. I got the impression that after a short period of adjustment I'd
be right back on track. Am I missing something?

I hated that I needed to name a track before recording it. It was
glitchy as all hell. And I thought the GUI was extremely cumbersome.
All I need a DAW program for is to capture, edit, and play back. I
handle eveything via a console.


You think that's bad ? I got majorly put off Cubase every early on when
I couldn't record anything. Turns out I needed to draw an empty event on
the time-line before I could record into it !!!

Went back to Vegas and am still (just) there.

geoff

[JackA]

On Thursday, November 12, 2015 at 4:54:07 PM UTC-5, geoff wrote:
On 13/11/2015 9:35 a.m., Rick Ruskin wrote:
On Thu, 12 Nov 2015 14:11:55 -0500, Nil
wrote:

On 12 Nov 2015, Rick Ruskin wrote in
rec.audio.pro:

I have no intention of "upgrading" past Audition 1.5 until forced
to do so. I tried the nightmare that was Version 3 and concluded
to stick with what works with little to know problems.
What's wrong with ver. 3? I've used it a bit and it seemed to be a bit
more resource-intensive, the interface and menus were changed a bit,
but it seemed to have the same feature set and to work as well as ver.
1.5. I got the impression that after a short period of adjustment I'd
be right back on track. Am I missing something?

I hated that I needed to name a track before recording it. It was
glitchy as all hell. And I thought the GUI was extremely cumbersome.
All I need a DAW program for is to capture, edit, and play back. I
handle eveything via a console.


You think that's bad ? I got majorly put off Cubase every early on when
I couldn't record anything. Turns out I needed to draw an empty event on
the time-line before I could record into it !!!

That is to allot disc space. If you blindly record, you could be near the end of your recording, with high hopes, and up pops a warning OUT OF DISC SPACE.

Sort of dumb to do it any other way.

Jack



Went back to Vegas and am still (just) there.

geoff

[Frank Stearns]

JackA writes:

On Thursday, November 12, 2015 at 4:54:07 PM UTC-5, geoff wrote:
On 13/11/2015 9:35 a.m., Rick Ruskin wrote:
On Thu, 12 Nov 2015 14:11:55 -0500, Nil
wrote:

On 12 Nov 2015, Rick Ruskin wrote in
rec.audio.pro:

snips

You think that's bad ? I got majorly put off Cubase every early on when
I couldn't record anything. Turns out I needed to draw an empty event on
the time-line before I could record into it !!!

That is to allot disc space. If you blindly record, you could be near the end of
your recording, with high hopes, and up pops a warning OUT OF DISC SPACE.

Sort of dumb to do it any other way.

Really? So what happens if the take gets in a groove, goes longer than expected, and
your allotment is exceeded, and yet disk space was still available?

And what happens if the talent suddenly starts jamming with some one-of-kind
performance? Rather than diving for the record button, the engineer has to first
fiddle with "pre-allocation", losing more precious seconds of the jam, because
software UI designers (once again) don't really understand the real-world workflow
of tasks their products alledgely support?

Perhaps this approach had some feeble merit back in the days long past when a BIG
harddrive was 500 MBytes (which wasn't very many multi-track minutes), but these
days of high performance, cheap, multi-terabyte drives this pre-allocation thing
does seem like a silly hurdle. (I don't use Cubase, so I can't speak to the deeper
reasons why they -- and apparently only they -- take this approach, but it would
irritate the hell out of me, too.)

It is one of the 21st century audio engineer's pre-session duties to glance at the
available disk space and make a rough mental calculation as to the available space
and anticipated needs of the session. Plus, there'd be a back-up recorder of some
kind running, right?

Frank
Mobile Audio

--

[mcp6453[_2_]]

On 11/12/2015 3:14 AM, gray_wolf wrote:
I found a copy of Adobe Audition 1.5 And installed on
my Win7 x64, AMD Athlon 64 X2 2.61 GHz with 6GB Ram.


In Audition 1.5 I loaded a 14.5 MB, 6 min mp3 file and it
took 15 seconds to load. I did a 'save as', after few edits,
it took 5 seconds

The same file loaded in Audition CS6 in ~2 seconds.
Saved in about 4 seconds. Apparently CS6 decodes faster
than it encodes.

Without checking out all the small bits Audition 1.5 seems very serviceable.
It uses mp3PRO® audio coding technology licensed from Coding Technologies, Fraunhofer IIS and Thomson multimedia.

I'm not sure what encoder Audition CS6 uses. Lame?
Audition CS6 works with other formats like Flac, ogg and ape.

Don't know what to say to the OP except check your settings
like cache and temp file location, do a fresh install and
make sure something else is not stealing your CPU and HDD
resources. Trust me, it happens.

Thanks for doing that. I monitor the resources in use by the computer all the time. That's not the problem. The settings
are the same as they are for an XP installation (on a Pentium 4) that works perfectly. Either W7 doesn't like 1.5, or
1.5 doesn't like the SSD. I'm going to install it on a W7 computer with a mechanical hard drive to see if there is any
difference. I'm such a fan of 1.5 (like Rick) that I'm prepared to get a new computer and leave in on XP, if that's what
it takes. Just don't leave an XP computer exposed on the Internet.

[JackA]

On Friday, November 13, 2015 at 7:48:25 AM UTC-5, Frank Stearns wrote:
JackA writes:

On Thursday, November 12, 2015 at 4:54:07 PM UTC-5, geoff wrote:
On 13/11/2015 9:35 a.m., Rick Ruskin wrote:
On Thu, 12 Nov 2015 14:11:55 -0500, Nil
wrote:

On 12 Nov 2015, Rick Ruskin wrote in
rec.audio.pro:

snips

You think that's bad ? I got majorly put off Cubase every early on when
I couldn't record anything. Turns out I needed to draw an empty event on
the time-line before I could record into it !!!

That is to allot disc space. If you blindly record, you could be near the end of
your recording, with high hopes, and up pops a warning OUT OF DISC SPACE.

Sort of dumb to do it any other way.

Really? So what happens if the take gets in a groove, goes longer than expected


In the professional world, some trial Takes are done before recording is even considered. I can't see someone allotting 6 minutes of audio for a 3.5 minute song, then find the songs is too long!!

, and
your allotment is exceeded, and yet disk space was still available?

And what happens if the talent suddenly starts jamming with some one-of-kind
performance? Rather than diving for the record button, the engineer has to first
fiddle with "pre-allocation", losing more precious seconds of the jam, because
software UI designers (once again) don't really understand the real-world workflow
of tasks their products alledgely support?

That never happens in the real world, where musicians goes nuts and fault the engineer since he should have expected it.


Perhaps this approach had some feeble merit back in the days long past when a BIG
harddrive was 500 MBytes (which wasn't very many multi-track minutes), but these
days of high performance, cheap, multi-terabyte drives this pre-allocation thing
does seem like a silly hurdle. (I don't use Cubase, so I can't speak to the deeper
reasons why they -- and apparently only they -- take this approach, but it would
irritate the hell out of me, too.)

It is one of the 21st century audio engineer's pre-session duties to glance at the
available disk space and make a rough mental calculation as to the available space
and anticipated needs of the session.

So you agree. Thank you.

Plus, there'd be a back-up recorder of some
kind running, right?

Ask him/her, not me!!!

Jack

Frank
Mobile Audio

--
.

[JackA]

On Friday, November 13, 2015 at 1:14:27 PM UTC-5, wrote:
JackA, et al:

I'm sorry that asshole from MA
had to crash the original thread
devoted to this topic. There was
a lot of good discussion there,
a lot of good ideas tossed around -
until it showed up!

Oh, it's okay. No harm done. I know he was lonesome after he was chewing on his owner's pant leg and eventually shook him free. Assume you're referring to None, The Wonder Dog.

Jack

[david gourley[_2_]]

mcp6453 said...news:hI2dnfJLq_NybNjLnZ2dnUU7-
:

On 11/12/2015 3:14 AM, gray_wolf wrote:
I found a copy of Adobe Audition 1.5 And installed on
my Win7 x64, AMD Athlon 64 X2 2.61 GHz with 6GB Ram.


In Audition 1.5 I loaded a 14.5 MB, 6 min mp3 file and it
took 15 seconds to load. I did a 'save as', after few edits,
it took 5 seconds

The same file loaded in Audition CS6 in ~2 seconds.
Saved in about 4 seconds. Apparently CS6 decodes faster
than it encodes.

Without checking out all the small bits Audition 1.5 seems very
serviceable.
It uses mp3PRO® audio coding technology licensed from Coding
Technologies, Fraunhofer IIS and Thomson multimedia.

I'm not sure what encoder Audition CS6 uses. Lame?
Audition CS6 works with other formats like Flac, ogg and ape.

Don't know what to say to the OP except check your settings
like cache and temp file location, do a fresh install and
make sure something else is not stealing your CPU and HDD
resources. Trust me, it happens.

Thanks for doing that. I monitor the resources in use by the computer all
the time. That's not the problem. The settings
are the same as they are for an XP installation (on a Pentium 4) that
works perfectly. Either W7 doesn't like 1.5, or
1.5 doesn't like the SSD. I'm going to install it on a W7 computer with a
mechanical hard drive to see if there is any
difference. I'm such a fan of 1.5 (like Rick) that I'm prepared to get a
new computer and leave in on XP, if that's what
it takes. Just don't leave an XP computer exposed on the Internet.



Mike,

Have you tried it in 'compatibility mode' with W7? Apologies if I'd missed
that earlier if you did.

david

[Frank Stearns]

JackA writes:

On Friday, November 13, 2015 at 7:48:25 AM UTC-5, Frank Stearns wrote:
JackA writes:

On Thursday, November 12, 2015 at 4:54:07 PM UTC-5, geoff wrote:
On 13/11/2015 9:35 a.m., Rick Ruskin wrote:
On Thu, 12 Nov 2015 14:11:55 -0500, Nil
wrote:

On 12 Nov 2015, Rick Ruskin wrote in
rec.audio.pro:

snips

You think that's bad ? I got majorly put off Cubase every early on when
I couldn't record anything. Turns out I needed to draw an empty event on
the time-line before I could record into it !!!

That is to allot disc space. If you blindly record, you could be near the end of
your recording, with high hopes, and up pops a warning OUT OF DISC SPACE.

Sort of dumb to do it any other way.

Really? So what happens if the take gets in a groove, goes longer than expected

In the professional world, some trial Takes are done before recording is even
considered. I can't see someone allotting 6 minutes of audio for a 3.5 minute song,
then find the songs is too long!!

Been in a modern studio setting? Many artists like to be more "organic" on the one
hand; while on the other hand some of the top talent simply walks in and does
something, ONE TAKE -- no level checks, no rehearsals. Yes, that's absolutely true.
If you've done your homework (or worked with this artist or someone like them
before) you can readily pull this off, no problem.

But if you missed it, you're the one who won't get called again. And, at the same
time, if they're in a groove, things might well just keep rolling and rolling.

"Uhhhh, 'scuse me, Mr or Ms Talent... I have to break your creative flow now and
**** you off, because I have to stop the sesion and allocate another hour of session
space on my crummy software, even though I had an hour assigned because you
originally told me it was one five minute song..." (Yes, in the old days you were
changing 2" reels every 16 minutes but those days are gone. People *expect* to now
be able to stay in the flow.)

So given those two extremes that could happen -- even in the same session! -- how
much do you pre-allot? And if it's a huge amount (just to be safe), is that
allotment then tied to that project "forever", with no way to release what might be
a large block of unused disk space for other sessions?

This silly pre-allotment thing -- which is apparently unique to Cubase -- is an
unnecessary pain in the ass. I'd reject Cubase immediately for that single reason
alone. Now, there might be more to this in terms of how cubase actually operates,
but if it is as surmized, nope, not an app I'd use for any of my sessions.

, and
your allotment is exceeded, and yet disk space was still available?

And what happens if the talent suddenly starts jamming with some one-of-kind
performance? Rather than diving for the record button, the engineer has to first
fiddle with "pre-allocation", losing more precious seconds of the jam, because
software UI designers (once again) don't really understand the real-world workflow
of tasks their products alledgely support?

That never happens in the real world, where musicians goes nuts and fault the
engineer since he should have expected it.

Guffaw! You really need to "sit in the hot seat" someday. The engineer is often
there to read minds, make things happen, and keep them happening -- and take heat if
something goes awry, especially if it's a high-dollar session. (Try doing a $6K/hour
orchestra session some day. I have; all went well each time, but it's unnerving as
hell; goes with the territory.)

If something DID go wrong (matters not one teeny bit why or whose fault) and you
lost the tracks from a 3 hour session, you can bet the person who signed that
$18,000 check is going to be anything but forgiving or understanding.)

Now, there are common-sense tricks to facilitate "dependable studio magic". For
example, whether I'm tracking in the studio or on location, one of the duplicate
multitrack machines runs nearly non-stop. (Thankfully it does NOT need to have its
disk space pre-allocated!!)

More often than you might guess those "rehearsals" or "level check" performances are
gems or have some gem sections within them. You're damned glad you had a machine
rolling and from experience had already set the levels darned close before anyone
even sat down to play.

And, you didn't have fuss with some stupid "guess the space" requirement of poorly
designed software.


Perhaps this approach had some feeble merit back in the days long past when a BIG
harddrive was 500 MBytes (which wasn't very many multi-track minutes), but these
days of high performance, cheap, multi-terabyte drives this pre-allocation thing
does seem like a silly hurdle. (I don't use Cubase, so I can't speak to the deeper
reasons why they -- and apparently only they -- take this approach, but it would
irritate the hell out of me, too.)

It is one of the 21st century audio engineer's pre-session duties to glance at the
available disk space and make a rough mental calculation as to the available space
and anticipated needs of the session.

So you agree. Thank you.

Agree with what? The simple point is that pre-allocation is an awkward, irritating,
and unnecessary layer. Simply plug in a 2 Tbyte drive, make sure there's at least
one Tbyte free, and you're good to go for several sessions, and with an efficient
use of space. None wasted, none coming up short.

Frank
Mobile Audio

--

[None]

theckma!-theckma!-theckma! @ omnibus-brevis.org sharted:
more of thecka ignoring me again, snipped

Hey, li'l buddy, I see you're still an utter failure at ignoring me.
You must be used to being a failure. You've ignored me by dedicating
entire posts to me. You've even started threads about me, you were
ignoring me so hard!

As everyone with even half a brain will have noticed, if they give a
****, is that your little tantrums on my behalf always seem to get
responses that you really won't like. In fact, your veins will be
bulging and your eyes will be seeing red. And I've pointed it out to
you explicitly several times. But "everyone with even half a brain"
doesn't include you; you don't even come up to the "halfwit" level.
FCKWAFHA.

[JackA]

On Friday, November 13, 2015 at 6:49:57 PM UTC-5, Frank Stearns wrote:
JackA writes:

On Friday, November 13, 2015 at 7:48:25 AM UTC-5, Frank Stearns wrote:
JackA writes:

On Thursday, November 12, 2015 at 4:54:07 PM UTC-5, geoff wrote:
On 13/11/2015 9:35 a.m., Rick Ruskin wrote:
On Thu, 12 Nov 2015 14:11:55 -0500, Nil
wrote:

On 12 Nov 2015, Rick Ruskin wrote in
rec.audio.pro:

snips

You think that's bad ? I got majorly put off Cubase every early on when
I couldn't record anything. Turns out I needed to draw an empty event on
the time-line before I could record into it !!!

That is to allot disc space. If you blindly record, you could be near the end of
your recording, with high hopes, and up pops a warning OUT OF DISC SPACE.

Sort of dumb to do it any other way.

Really? So what happens if the take gets in a groove, goes longer than expected

In the professional world, some trial Takes are done before recording is even
considered. I can't see someone allotting 6 minutes of audio for a 3.5 minute song,
then find the songs is too long!!

Been in a modern studio setting? Many artists like to be more "organic" on the one
hand; while on the other hand some of the top talent simply walks in and does
something, ONE TAKE -- no level checks, no rehearsals. Yes, that's absolutely true.
If you've done your homework (or worked with this artist or someone like them
before) you can readily pull this off, no problem.

But if you missed it, you're the one who won't get called again. And, at the same
time, if they're in a groove, things might well just keep rolling and rolling.

"Uhhhh, 'scuse me, Mr or Ms Talent... I have to break your creative flow now and
**** you off, because I have to stop the sesion and allocate another hour of session
space on my crummy software, even though I had an hour assigned because you
originally told me it was one five minute song..." (Yes, in the old days you were
changing 2" reels every 16 minutes but those days are gone. People *expect* to now
be able to stay in the flow.)

So given those two extremes that could happen -- even in the same session! -- how
much do you pre-allot? And if it's a huge amount (just to be safe), is that
allotment then tied to that project "forever", with no way to release what might be
a large block of unused disk space for other sessions?

This silly pre-allotment thing -- which is apparently unique to Cubase -- is an
unnecessary pain in the ass. I'd reject Cubase immediately for that single reason
alone. Now, there might be more to this in terms of how cubase actually operates,
but if it is as surmized, nope, not an app I'd use for any of my sessions..

, and
your allotment is exceeded, and yet disk space was still available?

And what happens if the talent suddenly starts jamming with some one-of-kind
performance? Rather than diving for the record button, the engineer has to first
fiddle with "pre-allocation", losing more precious seconds of the jam, because
software UI designers (once again) don't really understand the real-world workflow
of tasks their products alledgely support?

That never happens in the real world, where musicians goes nuts and fault the
engineer since he should have expected it.

Guffaw! You really need to "sit in the hot seat" someday. The engineer is often
there to read minds, make things happen, and keep them happening -- and take heat if
something goes awry, especially if it's a high-dollar session. (Try doing a $6K/hour
orchestra session some day. I have; all went well each time, but it's unnerving as
hell; goes with the territory.)

If something DID go wrong (matters not one teeny bit why or whose fault) and you
lost the tracks from a 3 hour session, you can bet the person who signed that
$18,000 check is going to be anything but forgiving or understanding.)

Now, there are common-sense tricks to facilitate "dependable studio magic". For
example, whether I'm tracking in the studio or on location, one of the duplicate
multitrack machines runs nearly non-stop. (Thankfully it does NOT need to have its
disk space pre-allocated!!)

More often than you might guess those "rehearsals" or "level check" performances are
gems or have some gem sections within them. You're damned glad you had a machine
rolling and from experience had already set the levels darned close before anyone
even sat down to play.

And, you didn't have fuss with some stupid "guess the space" requirement of poorly
designed software.


Perhaps this approach had some feeble merit back in the days long past when a BIG
harddrive was 500 MBytes (which wasn't very many multi-track minutes), but these
days of high performance, cheap, multi-terabyte drives this pre-allocation thing
does seem like a silly hurdle. (I don't use Cubase, so I can't speak to the deeper
reasons why they -- and apparently only they -- take this approach, but it would
irritate the hell out of me, too.)

It is one of the 21st century audio engineer's pre-session duties to glance at the
available disk space and make a rough mental calculation as to the available space
and anticipated needs of the session.

So you agree. Thank you.

Agree with what? The simple point is that pre-allocation is an awkward, irritating,
and unnecessary layer. Simply plug in a 2 Tbyte drive, make sure there's at least
one Tbyte free, and you're good to go for several sessions, and with an efficient
use of space. None wasted, none coming up short.

Very true, I agree, but maybe a 2 T' byte drive isn't what I have. Maybe it's partly full. My DAW (prefer DAS) would tell me how much music I could record before beginning. I feel that's an excellent idea. Even Goldwave software I use requires a predetermined time-line.

I ask you, what did they do in an analog world? Splice tape real-time when they discovered the drummer wanted to do a 2 hour solo? No. They had an idea what was going to be recorded. Personally, I wouldn't want to record anything, unless I had a decent idea how long it will take. Besides, if I were the engineer, they'd quickly know their allotted time had expired and I'd have to be paid double before continuing.

And, finally, I'm not arguing that I have more experience than you at recording. I'm just stating what I believe is a logical way to record, that's all.

Jack



Frank
Mobile Audio

--
.

[None]

lil-krissie-krybabie @ hockeyhelmet.shortbus.ret drooled on his
shoe:
Krissie's krap flushed

Tell me, Ralphie Wiggum-Sosickie, does your cat's breath smell like
ca-taf-oo, ca-ta-food, kitty litter and tunafisch? Hmmmm? Riddle me
that, O ritarded one!

"One - of - us! One - of - us! One - of - us! One - of - us!
One - of - us! One - of - us! One - of - us! One - of - us!
One - of - us!"

Try chanting it, li'l buddy, you'll like it, I think. It's what
microcephalics chant. Thanks for the laugh, dumb ****! I'm gone while
you're still scratching your basaltic head!

Nirmroghituotz, Krissie!

YWKMAFHM?

[Luxey]

�убота, 14. новембар 2015. 00.49.57 UTC+1, Frank Stearns је напи�ао/ла:
JackA writes:

On Friday, November 13, 2015 at 7:48:25 AM UTC-5, Frank Stearns wrote:
JackA writes:

On Thursday, November 12, 2015 at 4:54:07 PM UTC-5, geoff wrote:
On 13/11/2015 9:35 a.m., Rick Ruskin wrote:
On Thu, 12 Nov 2015 14:11:55 -0500, Nil
wrote:

On 12 Nov 2015, Rick Ruskin wrote in
rec.audio.pro:

snips

You think that's bad ? I got majorly put off Cubase every early on when
I couldn't record anything. Turns out I needed to draw an empty event on
the time-line before I could record into it !!!

That is to allot disc space. If you blindly record, you could be near the end of
your recording, with high hopes, and up pops a warning OUT OF DISC SPACE.

Sort of dumb to do it any other way.

Really? So what happens if the take gets in a groove, goes longer than expected

In the professional world, some trial Takes are done before recording is even
considered. I can't see someone allotting 6 minutes of audio for a 3.5 minute song,
then find the songs is too long!!

Been in a modern studio setting? Many artists like to be more "organic" on the one
hand; while on the other hand some of the top talent simply walks in and does
something, ONE TAKE -- no level checks, no rehearsals. Yes, that's absolutely true.
If you've done your homework (or worked with this artist or someone like them
before) you can readily pull this off, no problem.

But if you missed it, you're the one who won't get called again. And, at the same
time, if they're in a groove, things might well just keep rolling and rolling.

"Uhhhh, 'scuse me, Mr or Ms Talent... I have to break your creative flow now and
**** you off, because I have to stop the sesion and allocate another hour of session
space on my crummy software, even though I had an hour assigned because you
originally told me it was one five minute song..." (Yes, in the old days you were
changing 2" reels every 16 minutes but those days are gone. People *expect* to now
be able to stay in the flow.)

So given those two extremes that could happen -- even in the same session! -- how
much do you pre-allot? And if it's a huge amount (just to be safe), is that
allotment then tied to that project "forever", with no way to release what might be
a large block of unused disk space for other sessions?

This silly pre-allotment thing -- which is apparently unique to Cubase -- is an
unnecessary pain in the ass. I'd reject Cubase immediately for that single reason
alone. Now, there might be more to this in terms of how cubase actually operates,
but if it is as surmized, nope, not an app I'd use for any of my sessions..

, and
your allotment is exceeded, and yet disk space was still available?

And what happens if the talent suddenly starts jamming with some one-of-kind
performance? Rather than diving for the record button, the engineer has to first
fiddle with "pre-allocation", losing more precious seconds of the jam, because
software UI designers (once again) don't really understand the real-world workflow
of tasks their products alledgely support?

That never happens in the real world, where musicians goes nuts and fault the
engineer since he should have expected it.

Guffaw! You really need to "sit in the hot seat" someday. The engineer is often
there to read minds, make things happen, and keep them happening -- and take heat if
something goes awry, especially if it's a high-dollar session. (Try doing a $6K/hour
orchestra session some day. I have; all went well each time, but it's unnerving as
hell; goes with the territory.)

If something DID go wrong (matters not one teeny bit why or whose fault) and you
lost the tracks from a 3 hour session, you can bet the person who signed that
$18,000 check is going to be anything but forgiving or understanding.)

Now, there are common-sense tricks to facilitate "dependable studio magic". For
example, whether I'm tracking in the studio or on location, one of the duplicate
multitrack machines runs nearly non-stop. (Thankfully it does NOT need to have its
disk space pre-allocated!!)

More often than you might guess those "rehearsals" or "level check" performances are
gems or have some gem sections within them. You're damned glad you had a machine
rolling and from experience had already set the levels darned close before anyone
even sat down to play.

And, you didn't have fuss with some stupid "guess the space" requirement of poorly
designed software.


Perhaps this approach had some feeble merit back in the days long past when a BIG
harddrive was 500 MBytes (which wasn't very many multi-track minutes), but these
days of high performance, cheap, multi-terabyte drives this pre-allocation thing
does seem like a silly hurdle. (I don't use Cubase, so I can't speak to the deeper
reasons why they -- and apparently only they -- take this approach, but it would
irritate the hell out of me, too.)

It is one of the 21st century audio engineer's pre-session duties to glance at the
available disk space and make a rough mental calculation as to the available space
and anticipated needs of the session.

So you agree. Thank you.

Agree with what? The simple point is that pre-allocation is an awkward, irritating,
and unnecessary layer. Simply plug in a 2 Tbyte drive, make sure there's at least
one Tbyte free, and you're good to go for several sessions, and with an efficient
use of space. None wasted, none coming up short.

Frank
Mobile Audio

--
.

Cubase was like that on ATARI, when it ws MIDI only and maybe up to VST32
version for Windows, I can not really remember.

Now, what you seem not to be aware of, even on ATARI, for MIDI only, it had
sort of "virtual tracks" feature, although they may have been named
differently, meaning you'd draw an event to record into, but it would loop
record happilly all the time, as long aas you don't hit stop, to find "takes"
neatly stacked one under another. Then you could edit a perfect take out all
the mess. The first couple of audio versions may have lacked the feature, I'm
not sure, but what I am sure, we were still well in the '90s when it came
availaable for audio takes.

So, it was not about allocation of disk space, while it must be 15 years since
you do not have to make an event prior to recording and even in the old times
when you had to draw an event prior to recording, you'd not lose anything as
long as you had prepared event and you could always record into one then copy
to another and just like practice of the 21st century is one, back then practice was another, but at the same time it was the same, know your "Fuzzbox"
and be prepared to use it.

I'm not familliar with more modern incarnations of Cubase, I see they are at
No.8(?) but I'm sure it is one excellent piece of music making and recording
software, as it ever was.

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

On 13-11-2015 15:21, mcp6453 wrote:

On 11/12/2015 3:14 AM, gray_wolf wrote:

Don't know what to say to the OP except check your settings
like cache and temp file location, do a fresh install and
make sure something else is not stealing your CPU and HDD
resources. Trust me, it happens.

It is probably still in the manual somewhere, at least two spindles
recommended. I stand by my opinion that this is the issue here even if
if the disk is SSD. Note all I know about SSD is that I bought a 2.5"
disk before moving house a couple of years ago and that IBAS says there
is no such thing as data-recovery from an SSD disk. Eventually however
they will probably be cheaper because of the loss of ability to
manufacture anything mechanical. My asumption is that the controller
inside the disk does not like simultanous read and write.

Thanks for doing that. I monitor the resources in use by the computer all the time. That's not the problem. The settings
are the same as they are for an XP installation (on a Pentium 4) that works perfectly. Either W7 doesn't like 1.5, or
1.5 doesn't like the SSD. I'm going to install it on a W7 computer with a mechanical hard drive to see if there is any
difference. I'm such a fan of 1.5 (like Rick) that I'm prepared to get a new computer and leave in on XP, if that's what
it takes. Just don't leave an XP computer exposed on the Internet.

You may find that XP is not installable on a new box. Anyway, one disk
for audio storage, one for OS and temp-location 1 and another for
temp-location 2 works best. You with then keep it reading from one drive
and writing to another all the time for maximum speed.

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[Frank Stearns]

JackA writes:

-snips-

and unnecessary layer. Simply plug in a 2 Tbyte drive, make sure there's =
at least=20
one Tbyte free, and you're good to go for several sessions, and with an e=
fficient=20
use of space. None wasted, none coming up short.

Very true, I agree, but maybe a 2 T' byte drive isn't what I have. Maybe it=
's partly full. My DAW (prefer DAS) would tell me how much music I could re=

Could well be. Depends on what you're doing. If it's a home-studio/hobby thing then
yes, you'll probably run with whatever you have, and that's fine. If something goes
awry, probably no big deal.

But if you're a pro, with a rep to maintain to continue getting the better gigs,
you'll have the appropriate resources, including simultaneous backups.

cord before beginning. I feel that's an excellent idea. Even Goldwave softw=
are I use requires a predetermined time-line.

You mean you have to tell it how much time you might think you'll use and pre-assign
it? If so, that's the darnedest thing I've ever heard of.

Protools also has a time line (goes out to 600 minutes per session file or some
such), but there is NO disk space pre-assigned to that time line, and you need never
"pre-allocate" anything on that timeline prior to recording.

Disk space is simply used as needed. It's a "management" item that is appropriately
left to the machine. You need only do the occasional glance at your computer
resources to make sure there's a ball-park amount of space available.

I ask you, what did they do in an analog world? Splice tape real-time when =
they discovered the drummer wanted to do a 2 hour solo? No. They had an ide=

In the ultimate demanding situation for continuous record, say a live concert,
two analog machines would be used, each getting the same set of signals. As the tape
on one neared the end of the current reel, the other machine would be started, and
there would be some overlap of program material between the two machines.

The tape op would then unload the filled reel, label it accordingly, then load up a
new reel on that idling machine. It'd then be ready once the other machine ran low
on remaining time. And so it'd go, continuous recording while bouncing between
machines.

(And you hoped they were well-maintained constant tension machines so that if you
did a splice in post between reels, the speeds across the splice matched exactly.)

At 30 ips, the tape op was a busy guy -- and with a huge pile of 2" reels of 456 or
250 nearby. While in my teens I did the occasional stage work at a local theater.
One year, the Record Plant mobile was following Carol King around on tour.

Into a relatively small box truck they had an Audiotronics 36x24 console, JBL 4320s
hanging nearly in your face (pretty damned big nearfields!), two 3M 24 tracks, and
literally several hundred reels of 2" 456 stacked up next to the 3Ms. I stuck my
head in. The two guys elbow to elbow at the console were relatively relaxed; the
tape op had a furrowed brow and was highly focused on his job. He was not allowed
ANY errors, whatsoever. His performance moment-to-moment needed to be perfect.

Now in a studio, maybe a very short pause would be acceptable. I still have the
muscle memory; I could thread an Ampex MM1000 or MM1200 and push record in something
under 5 seconds, might even be 3.

I'd be willing to bet any good tape op could do this with any machine of the day in
far less time than it would take to mouse and draw a selection rectangle on screen
(after the zoom was changed, of course), find a menu item to assign the space, click
through to get all the channels into record, etc, etc. Fiddly -- and just plain
stupid.

a what was going to be recorded. Personally, I wouldn't want to record anyt=
hing, unless I had a decent idea how long it will take. Besides, if I were =
the engineer, they'd quickly know their allotted time had expired and I'd h=
ave to be paid double before continuing.

Depends. Sometimes in a 3 hour session tape barely rolled and maybe you used 15 to
20 minutes. Other times in that same session, things were in a groove and the tape
almost never stopped rolling. You prepare for each.

Given that a digital "track minute" these days probably costs 1,000x less than an
old analog track minute (depending on how you want to calculate costs), you let
things run, and use lots of tracks. (Aesthetically as you work through post, that
can be a two-edged sword, but that's another discussion.)

And, finally, I'm not arguing that I have more experience than you at recor=
ding. I'm just stating what I believe is a logical way to record, that's al=
l.

Sure. And in my environment, "logical" means no unnecessary fiddly steps to get
something going.

Frank
Mobile Audio
--

[[email protected]]

What happens if you loose power during or just after a recording.
Does the pre-allocation make it any easier to recover?

[John Williamson]

On 14/11/2015 18:38, wrote:
What happens if you loose power during or just after a recording.
Does the pre-allocation make it any easier to recover?

The best software I've found for recovering from a computer failure
during recording is Audacity, as it makes a large number of short audio
files during recording, which it then strings together into a single
output file when you export the recording, keeping the original segments
until you explicitly tell it to delete them. The most you can lose is a
few seconds before the power failure or computer crash.

Available for Windows and Linux and, possibly by now, Mac operating systems.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

[geoff]

On 13/11/2015 12:03 p.m., JackA wrote:



You think that's bad ? I got majorly put off Cubase every early on
when I couldn't record anything. Turns out I needed to draw an
empty event on the time-line before I could record into it !!!

That is to allot disc space. If you blindly record, you could be near
the end of your recording, with high hopes, and up pops a warning OUT
OF DISC SPACE.

Sort of dumb to do it any other way.

Really ? Since not being turned on by Cubase over 12(?) years ago and
having tried most other DAW software I've *never* had to draw an empty
event to record into, never had to allot disk space in any other way,
and have never come close to running out of disk space during a session.

geoff

[geoff]

On 14/11/2015 12:49 p.m., Frank Stearns wrote:


This silly pre-allotment thing -- which is apparently unique to Cubase -- is an
unnecessary pain in the ass. I'd reject Cubase immediately for that single reason
alone. Now, there might be more to this in terms of how cubase actually operates,
but if it is as surmized, nope, not an app I'd use for any of my sessions.


'This was a long time ago - presumably they'e dumped that idea by now.
Mind you, German software does quite often involve a different way of
thinking. Think Logic in the early (PC) days. Incredibly powerful, but a
pig to learn and totally unintuitive.

Again, no idea what Logic (the DAW application, not the thought process
- that's somebody else) is like now.

geoff

[Nil[_2_]]

On 14 Nov 2015, geoff wrote in
rec.audio.pro:

Sort of dumb to do it any other way.

Completely dumb to think it should be done that way.

Really ? Since not being turned on by Cubase over 12(?) years ago
and having tried most other DAW software I've *never* had to draw
an empty event to record into, never had to allot disk space in
any other way, and have never come close to running out of disk
space during a session.

I don't think Cubase requires that step any more, at least according to
this youtube video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGQR2GeWqwc

I don't use it myself, but a friend is a Cubase-head, and I've never
heard him complain about that... and he's one who would, if it were a
problem.

Neither Reaper, Sonar, Audition, or Audacity require you to add an
empty event before recording. In all of them you just set up the track
and inputs, press the big red button, and go.

[Gray_Wolf]

On 11/14/2015 10:07 PM, Nil wrote:
On 14 Nov 2015, geoff wrote in
rec.audio.pro:

Sort of dumb to do it any other way.

Completely dumb to think it should be done that way.

Really ? Since not being turned on by Cubase over 12(?) years ago
and having tried most other DAW software I've *never* had to draw
an empty event to record into, never had to allot disk space in
any other way, and have never come close to running out of disk
space during a session.

I don't think Cubase requires that step any more, at least according to
this youtube video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGQR2GeWqwc

I don't use it myself, but a friend is a Cubase-head, and I've never
heard him complain about that... and he's one who would, if it were a
problem.

Neither Reaper, Sonar, Audition, or Audacity require you to add an
empty event before recording. In all of them you just set up the track
and inputs, press the big red button, and go.

I wonder if that could a holdover from a tape mindset? i.e. you only have
a set space to record on. I've never had an app that did that. Back in the
late 90's I used to record streaming audio. Just turn it on and let it go.
I was most likely using WaveLab or Cool Edit

[Mike Rivers[_2_]]

On 11/14/2015 10:45 PM, geoff wrote:
Since not being turned on by Cubase over 12(?) years ago and having
tried most other DAW software I've *never* had to draw an empty event
to record into, never had to allot disk space in any other way, and have
never come close to running out of disk space during a session.

As I recall, the Alesis HD24 required pre-allocation of recording space.
That recorder used a non-standard way of writing to the disk and they
could handle more tracks faster by knowing beforehand where they'd be
located on disk.

Back in the late 1970s, I was working for the National Weather Service
in a program to replace the fax machines and Teletypes in field offices
with computers. The contractor who got the job of building the systems
used Data General Eclipse computers. They had three different types of
disk file - random (like everybody does it today, sticking blobs of data
wherever it will fit), something else that I don't remember, and
contiguous. A contiguous file used pre-allocated space and the data was
recorded sequentially with only data for that file going into the
allocated space. The graphics files had to be contiguous so that they
could be read out quickly enough to display faster than a fax machine.

But, no, I haven't heard of a DAW that pre-allocates disk space, unless
it's hidden from the user.

--
For a good time, visit http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com

[Frank Stearns]

Mike Rivers writes:

On 11/14/2015 10:45 PM, geoff wrote:
Since not being turned on by Cubase over 12(?) years ago and having
tried most other DAW software I've *never* had to draw an empty event
to record into, never had to allot disk space in any other way, and have
never come close to running out of disk space during a session.

As I recall, the Alesis HD24 required pre-allocation of recording space.
That recorder used a non-standard way of writing to the disk and they
could handle more tracks faster by knowing beforehand where they'd be
located on disk.

No, preallocation is not required, though some users suggested pre-recording "dead
air" for your anticipated needs -- just in case you lost power. The disk TOC only
got updated each time you pressed stop and theoretically, pre-recording silence
gave a better chance at recovery.

But what a pain -- and for the same reasons as any fixed pre-allocation scheme. But
also what pain if you did lose power -- and part of your recording.

Far simpler (and overall more reliable) to add a 1U UPS to the rack. I have many,
many thousands of hours on my machines and have never lost a gig. (But then, I
stripe duplicate data to a second machine. You can bet I'd start having failures if
that second machine were not around to "scare" the primary machine into behaving.
w)

And, for better and faster track management, I will pre-title for the gigs I do, but
not pre-allocate space. Then, while recording a live gig on location, I can keep
things in convenient chunks that might be 15-40 minutes long.

(Typically there will be points at which you can jump to the next pre-allocated
title. Alesis calls them "songs", and 99 songs can live in an overall titled
container called a "project". Given that these management pre-allocated names were
done before I get to the venue, I can switch between them in 1 second or less. You
can do these pre-allocations off-line, using special software that understands the
HD24 disk format. You can set track counts, sample rates, and name things as you
wish with a regular keyboard. Way faster than scrolling around on the HD24
front panel.

Later, after the gig, that same software is used to quickly offload the session
data into your post-production computer.)

In terms of the proprietary file format, Alesis was clever in developing a data
striping scheme that was perfectly happy with the slow drives available back in the
early 2000s (no problems with 24 tracks at 48K 24 bit on a 5400 RPM long seek time
drive).

Tracks are striped in a sort-of contiguous lock-step so that a chunk of track 22
won't be a huge amount of seek time away from track 3 of the same time index.

There is much to recommend the machine, particularly the XR version (much better
converters). Certain aspects feel very much like using an MM1200. It's tragic in
many ways that the machine has been discontinued and that so far, no one has really
duplicated it. The JoeCo box is kinda in the ballpark, but it's far less flexible in
some respects and can be very spendy.

recorded sequentially with only data for that file going into the
allocated space. The graphics files had to be contiguous so that they
could be read out quickly enough to display faster than a fax machine.

Similar idea to the HD24, it sounds like.

Frank
Mobile Audio

--

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

On 15-11-2015 14:20, Mike Rivers wrote:

On 11/14/2015 10:45 PM, geoff wrote:
Since not being turned on by Cubase over 12(?) years ago and having
tried most other DAW software I've *never* had to draw an empty event
to record into, never had to allot disk space in any other way, and have
never come close to running out of disk space during a session.

As I recall, the Alesis HD24 required pre-allocation of recording space.

No. Press record and record. Adding files to a drive with the drive on a
computer is another issue, then the virtual tape to put them on has to
exist.

That recorder used a non-standard way of writing to the disk and they
could handle more tracks faster by knowing beforehand where they'd be
located on disk.

It writes a single interlaced file containing all tracks, basically
emulating a whatever it was called that recorded on vhs tape, ie. a
virtual tape. Thus its oddities.

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

Back in the late 1970s, I was working for the National Weather Service
in a program to replace the fax machines and Teletypes in field offices
with computers. The contractor who got the job of building the systems
used Data General Eclipse computers. They had three different types of
disk file - random (like everybody does it today, sticking blobs of data
wherever it will fit), something else that I don't remember, and
contiguous. A contiguous file used pre-allocated space and the data was
recorded sequentially with only data for that file going into the
allocated space. The graphics files had to be contiguous so that they
could be read out quickly enough to display faster than a fax machine.

But, no, I haven't heard of a DAW that pre-allocates disk space, unless
it's hidden from the user.

[Mike Rivers[_2_]]

On 11/15/2015 10:26 AM, Peter Larsen wrote:
On 15-11-2015 14:20, Mike Rivers wrote:
As I recall, the Alesis HD24 required pre-allocation of recording space.

No. Press record and record. Adding files to a drive with the drive on a
computer is another issue, then the virtual tape to put them on has to
exist.

I know there was something that required pre-allocated space. What could
I have remembered that I don't remember? Maybe one of the tape-based
digital recorders? I remember that the TASCAM DA-88 preferred having the
tape pre-formatted, but it wasn't necessary.

--
For a good time, visit http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com

[david gourley[_2_]]

geoff said...news:5YqdnYWLtd5pYtrLnZ2dnUU7-
:

On 13/11/2015 12:03 p.m., JackA wrote:



You think that's bad ? I got majorly put off Cubase every early on
when I couldn't record anything. Turns out I needed to draw an
empty event on the time-line before I could record into it !!!

That is to allot disc space. If you blindly record, you could be near
the end of your recording, with high hopes, and up pops a warning OUT
OF DISC SPACE.

Sort of dumb to do it any other way.

Really ? Since not being turned on by Cubase over 12(?) years ago and
having tried most other DAW software I've *never* had to draw an empty
event to record into, never had to allot disk space in any other way,
and have never come close to running out of disk space during a session.

geoff



Goldwave has always been that way. For whatever reason, the author never
changed it. Last time I saw it, it still didn't allow for any real time
monitoring so you just apply the effects and hope they aren't too heavy-
handed or whatever. That just gives JackAss another reason to troll in the
way he does.

david

[Rick Ruskin]

On Sun, 15 Nov 2015 08:20:12 -0500, Mike Rivers
wrote:

On 11/14/2015 10:45 PM, geoff wrote:
Since not being turned on by Cubase over 12(?) years ago and having
tried most other DAW software I've *never* had to draw an empty event
to record into, never had to allot disk space in any other way, and have
never come close to running out of disk space during a session.

As I recall, the Alesis HD24 required pre-allocation of recording space.
That recorder used a non-standard way of writing to the disk and they
could handle more tracks faster by knowing beforehand where they'd be
located on disk.


the HD24 requires you to choose the number of tracks but not the
amount of time . I leave mine set @ 24 so it is never an issue. I
have enough disks and space on each that economizing isn't an issue.



Rick Ruskin
Lion Dog Music- Seattle WA
http://liondogmusic.com

[geoff]

On 16/11/2015 4:57 a.m., Mike Rivers wrote:
On 11/15/2015 10:26 AM, Peter Larsen wrote:
On 15-11-2015 14:20, Mike Rivers wrote:
As I recall, the Alesis HD24 required pre-allocation of recording
space.

No. Press record and record. Adding files to a drive with the drive on a
computer is another issue, then the virtual tape to put them on has to
exist.

I know there was something that required pre-allocated space. What
could I have remembered that I don't remember? Maybe one of the
tape-based digital recorders? I remember that the TASCAM DA-88
preferred having the tape pre-formatted, but it wasn't necessary.


Must get around to fixing mine ! There must be people out there who
would like their DA-88 project session tapes transferred to a more
accessible format for remixing !

geoff

[JackA]

On Sunday, November 15, 2015 at 11:55:51 AM UTC-5, david gourley wrote:
geoff said...news:5YqdnYWLtd5pYtrLnZ2dnUU7-
:

On 13/11/2015 12:03 p.m., JackA wrote:



You think that's bad ? I got majorly put off Cubase every early on
when I couldn't record anything. Turns out I needed to draw an
empty event on the time-line before I could record into it !!!

That is to allot disc space. If you blindly record, you could be near
the end of your recording, with high hopes, and up pops a warning OUT
OF DISC SPACE.

Sort of dumb to do it any other way.

Really ? Since not being turned on by Cubase over 12(?) years ago and
having tried most other DAW software I've *never* had to draw an empty
event to record into, never had to allot disk space in any other way,
and have never come close to running out of disk space during a session..

geoff



Goldwave has always been that way. For whatever reason, the author never
changed it. Last time I saw it, it still didn't allow for any real time
monitoring so you just apply the effects and hope they aren't too heavy-
handed or whatever.

I haven't a clue what you are talking about. Sorry.
Maybe you mean altering sound and then applying it, then play it back. Maybe no preview is what you can't tolerate. Maybe you need a one-button fix all audio editor? I have admitted, I use WinAmp's real-time equalizer to target what I have to do in Goldmine.

Jack

That just gives JackAss another reason to troll in the
way he does.

david

[JackA]

On Saturday, November 14, 2015 at 10:46:01 PM UTC-5, geoff wrote:
On 13/11/2015 12:03 p.m., JackA wrote:



You think that's bad ? I got majorly put off Cubase every early on
when I couldn't record anything. Turns out I needed to draw an
empty event on the time-line before I could record into it !!!

That is to allot disc space. If you blindly record, you could be near
the end of your recording, with high hopes, and up pops a warning OUT
OF DISC SPACE.

Sort of dumb to do it any other way.

Really ? Since not being turned on by Cubase over 12(?) years ago and
having tried most other DAW software I've *never* had to draw an empty
event to record into, never had to allot disk space in any other way,
and have never come close to running out of disk space during a session.

This just adds to fuel my fire that there are no "professionals" here.

Jack

geoff

[JackA]

On Sunday, November 15, 2015 at 10:57:53 AM UTC-5, Mike Rivers wrote:
On 11/15/2015 10:26 AM, Peter Larsen wrote:
On 15-11-2015 14:20, Mike Rivers wrote:
As I recall, the Alesis HD24 required pre-allocation of recording space.

No. Press record and record. Adding files to a drive with the drive on a
computer is another issue, then the virtual tape to put them on has to
exist.

I know there was something that required pre-allocated space. What could
I have remembered that I don't remember? Maybe one of the tape-based
digital recorders? I remember that the TASCAM DA-88 preferred having the
tape pre-formatted, but it wasn't necessary.

I'm guessing some of these DAWs are made for people who can't think ahead, sort of like what I see in updates of Windows. You have one push-button audio engineers.

Jack

--
For a good time, visit http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com

[Scott Dorsey]

Frank Stearns wrote:

"Uhhhh, 'scuse me, Mr or Ms Talent... I have to break your creative flow now and
**** you off, because I have to stop the sesion and allocate another hour of session
space on my crummy software, even though I had an hour assigned because you
originally told me it was one five minute song..." (Yes, in the old days you were
changing 2" reels every 16 minutes but those days are gone. People *expect* to now
be able to stay in the flow.)

It's dramatic how different things are... used to be folks would work hard
to conserve tape and record as little as possible... now the tracking guys
just let the machine roll and roll and leave it to the poor sod in mixdown
to figure out what is actually useful. If they are lucky there are some notes.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Scott Dorsey]

Frank Stearns wrote:
In the ultimate demanding situation for continuous record, say a live concert,
two analog machines would be used, each getting the same set of signals. As the tape
on one neared the end of the current reel, the other machine would be started, and
there would be some overlap of program material between the two machines.

Okay, so time for stupid war stories.

I'm recording a folk rock band that is sort of on the way up, they have a
record deal but the label is not exactly soaking them with cash. Someone
gets a "really good deal" on time on a truck that is at a stop on the tour
with the plan of recording three nights of concerts in that city for release
as a live album.

So, I talk to the guy with the truck, it is weirdly equipped with two swanky
new ATR-104 machines which can be swapped into 2-track or 4-track for mixdown
(this being the era of the Great Quadrophonic Scare) and some sort of 2"
machine that can only take 10" reels.

So, seeing that the 2" machine is more or less useless in a live concert
situation without a second machine, and seeing that there are only about
six tracks coming off the stage anyway, I figure we run 4-track, devote two
to stage submixes and two to ambient feeds, and rely on the ambient feed.
I get a bunch of tape on 14" pancakes and the appropriate flanges shipped
to the guy, tell him what mike kit I want, and fly in.

So.... it turns out the ATR-100 machines have the motors in the wrong position
to run 14" reels, and when we move them on one machine, it isn't stable with
the big reel. The second machine is totally dead, at least one power supply
is out. So we record the first night at 15 ips on 10" reels with frequent
reel changes, and constant talk on the clearcom with the poor FoH guy who is
telling the band between songs to vamp a little while for our reel changes.

The first guy had the tape wound down to a 10" reel and had the end of it
threaded onto a take up reel so when the band stopped, he hit stop and edit,
pulled the reel holders off while the second guy took both reels off, dropped
two new ones on, put the reel holders on, tensioned the tape and hit stop
and then play. The machine was balky so this did not always go as fast as
it might have.

I had to go in and apologize to the guys afterward. The next night we got
the second machine running. The thing did actually get released and it
sold enough that I should have asked for points.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[JackA]

On Tuesday, November 17, 2015 at 6:52:56 PM UTC-5, Scott Dorsey wrote:
Frank Stearns wrote:

"Uhhhh, 'scuse me, Mr or Ms Talent... I have to break your creative flow now and
**** you off, because I have to stop the sesion and allocate another hour of session
space on my crummy software, even though I had an hour assigned because you
originally told me it was one five minute song..." (Yes, in the old days you were
changing 2" reels every 16 minutes but those days are gone. People *expect* to now
be able to stay in the flow.)

I care less what People today expect, they are stupid, not I. So little talent left in the music world, it's growing pathetic.

Jack



It's dramatic how different things are... used to be folks would work hard
to conserve tape and record as little as possible... now the tracking guys
just let the machine roll and roll and leave it to the poor sod in mixdown
to figure out what is actually useful. If they are lucky there are some notes.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Frank Stearns]

JackA writes:

On Tuesday, November 17, 2015 at 6:52:56 PM UTC-5, Scott Dorsey wrote:
Frank Stearns wrote:

"Uhhhh, 'scuse me, Mr or Ms Talent... I have to break your creative flow now and
**** you off, because I have to stop the sesion and allocate another hour of session
space on my crummy software, even though I had an hour assigned because you
originally told me it was one five minute song..." (Yes, in the old days you were
changing 2" reels every 16 minutes but those days are gone. People *expect* to now
be able to stay in the flow.)

I care less what People today expect, they are stupid, not I. So little talent left
in the music world, it's growing pathetic.

Too bad you haven't experienced working with top-flight people. I'm just thrilled
that the technology now enables me to support them -- nearly completely -- without
derailing what they're doing (assuming I've done the other details of my job
properly).

That's something I saw a lot of as a young engineer: primitive technology frequently
stepping directly into the artist's path, along with plain old engineering
incompetence.

Those weren't my sessions, I was just the gopher, but I learned a ton about the
importance of pre-production and planning (and avoiding session bottlenecks),
something many folks still don't do as thoroughly as they should.

Every gig I do is carefully thought through, every detail planned. But all of that
is mostly hidden from the talent, so that they can feel "casual" but still get right
down to business. Oh, and good pre-planning can actually leave you adequate wiggle
room for the unexpected.

It seems to be a win-win approach. Just finished a bluegrass album that was done
exactly that way. Good players, good voices; they were thrilled because for the
/first time/ they all felt that "the studio" wasn't herding them in a direction that
might not be the best for their way of performing. Great energy and tones; wonderful
synergy from them as a band because no part of what they were doing was being
siphoned off by something artificial or contrived.

Well, truth be told, studio recording is mostly artificial and contrived -- the
trick is to have a good performance blossom on top of all that.

Frank
Mobile Audio

--

[JackA]

On Tuesday, November 17, 2015 at 8:36:18 PM UTC-5, Frank Stearns wrote:
JackA writes:

On Tuesday, November 17, 2015 at 6:52:56 PM UTC-5, Scott Dorsey wrote:
Frank Stearns wrote:

"Uhhhh, 'scuse me, Mr or Ms Talent... I have to break your creative flow now and
**** you off, because I have to stop the sesion and allocate another hour of session
space on my crummy software, even though I had an hour assigned because you
originally told me it was one five minute song..." (Yes, in the old days you were
changing 2" reels every 16 minutes but those days are gone. People *expect* to now
be able to stay in the flow.)

I care less what People today expect, they are stupid, not I. So little talent left
in the music world, it's growing pathetic.

Too bad you haven't experienced working with top-flight people. I'm just thrilled
that the technology now enables me to support them -- nearly completely -- without
derailing what they're doing (assuming I've done the other details of my job
properly).

That's something I saw a lot of as a young engineer: primitive technology frequently
stepping directly into the artist's path, along with plain old engineering
incompetence.

Those weren't my sessions, I was just the gopher, but I learned a ton about the
importance of pre-production and planning (and avoiding session bottlenecks),
something many folks still don't do as thoroughly as they should.

Every gig I do is carefully thought through, every detail planned. But all of that
is mostly hidden from the talent, so that they can feel "casual" but still get right
down to business. Oh, and good pre-planning can actually leave you adequate wiggle
room for the unexpected.

It seems to be a win-win approach. Just finished a bluegrass album that was done
exactly that way. Good players, good voices; they were thrilled because for the
/first time/ they all felt that "the studio" wasn't herding them in a direction that
might not be the best for their way of performing. Great energy and tones; wonderful
synergy from them as a band because no part of what they were doing was being
siphoned off by something artificial or contrived.

Well, truth be told, studio recording is mostly artificial and contrived -- the
trick is to have a good performance blossom on top of all that.

Frank
Mobile Audio

--
.

Frank, no disrespect, but you write too much!!! :-)

Keep it short and sweet. You make me feel guilty not covering everything you write!!

Now, I need your honest opinion. Do YOU see/hear the electric guitar dying in Popular music? I do, but I need confirmation others hear it, too.

Listen to Rap music, no musical talent needed. It seemed only to become "popular" as part of a plan to decay the USA.

Me, if I recorded some group, NO OVERDUBBING WOULD BE ALLOWED. If you lack talent and need to overdub, hire more musicians for the group, or go elsewhere. The one group I admire is The Knack - little, if any, overdubbing. They (founder)wanted to sound as good live as in the studio.

Just posted A Little Bit O' Soul (The Music Explosion). Darn fine drummer, but was that really some studio musician? Why I'm confused who to credit, since music is faked. I grew to tolerate overdubbing, still REAL people playing instruments. When did I first realize overdubbing? Back in the 80's, playing my drums to records and radio, figured I needs more than two hands to replicate the drumming!!

Jack