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Does Anyone have a Schematic for a Sound City Joanna Piano Keyboard?



 
 
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  #1  
Old May 12th 19, 11:16 AM posted to rec.audio.pro
Paul[_13_]
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Posts: 869
Default Does Anyone have a Schematic for a Sound City Joanna Piano Keyboard?

Mine looks just like this one:

https://www.matrixsynth.com/2017/07/...ty-joanna.html

The power switch LED turns on, but nothing on the output.

A schematic would sure be helpful....


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  #2  
Old May 13th 19, 11:48 AM posted to rec.audio.pro
Paul[_13_]
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Posts: 869
Default Does Anyone have a Schematic for a Sound City Joanna PianoKeyboard?

On 5/12/2019 3:16 AM, Paul wrote:
> Mine looks just like this one:
>
> *** https://www.matrixsynth.com/2017/07/...ty-joanna.html
>
> The power switch LED turns on, but nothing on the output.
>
> A schematic would sure be helpful....
>


Oh, nevermind. It works.

I just need to clean the key springs, and buy new ones
for the ones that are missing.

But a weird sounding keyboard for sure! Nothing like
that old Italian analog sound!



  #3  
Old May 13th 19, 12:03 PM posted to rec.audio.pro
Paul[_13_]
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Posts: 869
Default Does Anyone have a Schematic for a Sound City Joanna PianoKeyboard?

On 5/13/2019 3:48 AM, Paul wrote:
> On 5/12/2019 3:16 AM, Paul wrote:
>> Mine looks just like this one:
>>
>> **** https://www.matrixsynth.com/2017/07/...ty-joanna.html
>>
>> The power switch LED turns on, but nothing on the output.
>>
>> A schematic would sure be helpful....
>>

>
> ** Oh, nevermind.* It works.
>
> ** I just need to clean the key springs, and buy new ones
> for the ones that are missing.
>
> ** But a weird sounding keyboard for sure!* Nothing like
> that old Italian analog sound!
>


Ok, can I just go to somewhere like Home Depot, and
get stock spring, to replace the old, worn out key
springs? Like get a long length of it, and cut them
to size?

Here is a picture of similar Crumar key springs:


https://xbs111.files.wordpress.com/2...-springs-2.jpg

Thanks for any advice.

  #4  
Old May 13th 19, 04:45 PM posted to rec.audio.pro
ChrisG
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Posts: 9
Default Does Anyone have a Schematic for a Sound City Joanna PianoKeyboard?

On 5/13/2019 6:03 AM, Paul wrote:
> On 5/13/2019 3:48 AM, Paul wrote:
>> On 5/12/2019 3:16 AM, Paul wrote:
>>> Mine looks just like this one:
>>>
>>> **** https://www.matrixsynth.com/2017/07/...ty-joanna.html
>>>
>>> The power switch LED turns on, but nothing on the output.
>>>
>>> A schematic would sure be helpful....
>>>

>>
>> *** Oh, nevermind.* It works.

I used to successfully employ heavy guitar strings on Farfisa and Vox
organs. They would need to be wound with a metal that could be soldered
though, bronze maybe? I later learned that the original busbars and
springs on better quality instruments were often gold plated, so I
probably caused a lot of destructive wear and tear, but I didn’t know
and didn’t care in those days. I just wanted the thing to work when I
needed it.
Everything corrodes, but gold on gold is pretty good until it wears
through. If they’re gold, it may be worth transplanting old springs from
the upper keys to the midrange to preserve the busbar, and kludge the
lesser-used contacts.

>>
>> *** I just need to clean the key springs, and buy new ones
>> for the ones that are missing.
>>
>> *** But a weird sounding keyboard for sure!* Nothing like
>> that old Italian analog sound!
>>

>
> ** Ok, can I just go to somewhere like Home Depot, and
> get stock spring, to replace the old, worn out key
> springs?* Like get a long length of it, and cut them
> to size?
>
> ** Here is a picture of similar Crumar key springs:
>
>
> https://xbs111.files.wordpress.com/2...-springs-2.jpg
>
>
> ** Thanks for any advice.
>


  #5  
Old May 13th 19, 09:00 PM posted to rec.audio.pro
Paul[_13_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 869
Default Does Anyone have a Schematic for a Sound City Joanna PianoKeyboard?

On 5/13/2019 8:45 AM, ChrisG wrote:
> On 5/13/2019 6:03 AM, Paul wrote:
>> On 5/13/2019 3:48 AM, Paul wrote:
>>> On 5/12/2019 3:16 AM, Paul wrote:
>>>> Mine looks just like this one:
>>>>
>>>> **** https://www.matrixsynth.com/2017/07/...ty-joanna.html
>>>>
>>>> The power switch LED turns on, but nothing on the output.
>>>>
>>>> A schematic would sure be helpful....
>>>>
>>>
>>> *** Oh, nevermind.* It works.

> I used to successfully employ heavy guitar strings on Farfisa and Vox
> organs. They would need to be wound with a metal that could be soldered
> though, bronze maybe? I later learned that the original busbars and
> springs on better quality instruments were often gold plated, so I
> probably caused a lot of destructive wear and tear, but I didn’t know
> and didn’t care in those days. I just wanted the thing to work when I
> needed it.
> Everything corrodes, but gold on gold is pretty good until it wears
> through. If they’re gold, it may be worth transplanting old springs from
> the upper keys to the midrange to preserve the busbar, and kludge the
> lesser-used contacts.


OK, that sounds like a good idea. Heavy guitar strings. I don't
think these are gold-plated, but I could be wrong.

I just compared them, and the guitar strings are definitely
much stiffer, and less pliant, than the original springs, but it
looks like it should work.

Still, is there a source for the original raw spring material? It
would be better, because the stiffer guitar string would definitely
affect the action and feel of the keyboard a small bit.

But this all answers the question of why there were 10 springs
missing in the first place! They were clearly taken from this unit,
and put into another keyboard. And I noticed on the Vintage Synth
website, that they are selling these springs USED, for about $4 a piece!

Hmmmm....no wonder people like to buy old keyboards for the
parts only!

:/


>
>>>
>>> *** I just need to clean the key springs, and buy new ones
>>> for the ones that are missing.
>>>
>>> *** But a weird sounding keyboard for sure!* Nothing like
>>> that old Italian analog sound!
>>>

>>
>> *** Ok, can I just go to somewhere like Home Depot, and
>> get stock spring, to replace the old, worn out key
>> springs?* Like get a long length of it, and cut them
>> to size?
>>
>> *** Here is a picture of similar Crumar key springs:
>>
>>
>> https://xbs111.files.wordpress.com/2...-springs-2.jpg
>>
>>
>> *** Thanks for any advice.
>>

>


  #6  
Old May 13th 19, 09:15 PM posted to rec.audio.pro
geoff
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,508
Default ElectroKey - Does Anyone have a Schematic for a Sound City JoannaPiano Keyboard?

While we are at it does anybody have a schematic an ElectroKey piano.

Similar concept to a Wurli - to the point Wurlitzer got them shut down.

geoff
  #7  
Old May 14th 19, 06:53 AM posted to rec.audio.pro
Paul[_13_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 869
Default Does Anyone have a Schematic for a Sound City Joanna PianoKeyboard?

On 5/13/2019 1:00 PM, Paul wrote:
> On 5/13/2019 8:45 AM, ChrisG wrote:
>> On 5/13/2019 6:03 AM, Paul wrote:
>>> On 5/13/2019 3:48 AM, Paul wrote:
>>>> On 5/12/2019 3:16 AM, Paul wrote:
>>>>> Mine looks just like this one:
>>>>>
>>>>> **** https://www.matrixsynth.com/2017/07/...ty-joanna.html
>>>>>
>>>>> The power switch LED turns on, but nothing on the output.
>>>>>
>>>>> A schematic would sure be helpful....
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *** Oh, nevermind.* It works.

>> I used to successfully employ heavy guitar strings on Farfisa and Vox
>> organs. They would need to be wound with a metal that could be
>> soldered though, bronze maybe? I later learned that the original
>> busbars and springs on better quality instruments were often gold
>> plated, so I probably caused a lot of destructive wear and tear, but I
>> didn’t know and didn’t care in those days. I just wanted the thing to
>> work when I needed it.
>> Everything corrodes, but gold on gold is pretty good until it wears
>> through. If they’re gold, it may be worth transplanting old springs
>> from the upper keys to the midrange to preserve the busbar, and kludge
>> the lesser-used contacts.

>
> ***** OK, that sounds like a good idea. Heavy guitar strings.* I don't
> think these are gold-plated, but I could be wrong.
>
> ***** I just compared them, and the guitar strings are definitely
> much stiffer, and less pliant, than the original springs, but it
> looks like it should work.
>
> ***** Still, is there a source for the original raw spring material?* It
> would be better, because the stiffer guitar string would definitely
> affect the action and feel of the keyboard a small bit.
>
> ***** But this all answers the question of why there were 10 springs
> missing in the first place!* They were clearly taken from this unit,
> and put into another keyboard.* And I noticed on the Vintage Synth
> website, that they are selling these springs USED, for about $4 a piece!
>
> ***** Hmmmm....no wonder people like to buy old keyboards for the
> parts only!
>
> ***** :/
>
>
>>
>>>>
>>>> *** I just need to clean the key springs, and buy new ones
>>>> for the ones that are missing.
>>>>
>>>> *** But a weird sounding keyboard for sure!* Nothing like
>>>> that old Italian analog sound!
>>>>
>>>
>>> *** Ok, can I just go to somewhere like Home Depot, and
>>> get stock spring, to replace the old, worn out key
>>> springs?* Like get a long length of it, and cut them
>>> to size?
>>>
>>> *** Here is a picture of similar Crumar key springs:
>>>
>>>
>>> https://xbs111.files.wordpress.com/2...-springs-2.jpg
>>>
>>>
>>> *** Thanks for any advice.
>>>


Ok, the guitar string idea works great! 0.052"!

There isn't really an issue with a difference
in the feel of the action, because like most organs,
each key is only ON or OFF. There is no velocity
information, and most of the forces on the key, come
from the thicker main spring of each key, not the thin
contact springs. So consequently, I don't feel a
difference in the action, on the keys with the guitar
string replacement.

But I have found two more issues:

1) How do I level the white keys on this unit?

2) The high G# does not decay properly like the other keys.
It almost acts like it has the sustain pedal down all the
time. So it keeps sustaining while the other keys decay
and taper off as they should. It seems like it's some
sort of RC time constant, so I will probe, and check
the components around this key, and compare them to it's
neighboring keys.

And advice is greatly appreciated.

  #8  
Old May 14th 19, 05:06 PM posted to rec.audio.pro
polymod
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Posts: 530
Default ElectroKey - Does Anyone have a Schematic for a Sound City Joanna Piano Keyboard?



"geoff" wrote in message
...

While we are at it does anybody have a schematic an ElectroKey piano.

Similar concept to a Wurli - to the point Wurlitzer got them shut down.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


I remember selling those at a piano/mi store many years ago. Interesting
sound.
In case you didn't stumble on this older thread, it looks like the top
poster has a wiring diagram...or at least a portion of it.

https://ep-forum.com/smf/index.php?topic=8916.0


Poly


---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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  #9  
Old May 14th 19, 09:06 PM posted to rec.audio.pro
geoff
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,508
Default ElectroKey - Does Anyone have a Schematic for a Sound CityJoanna Piano Keyboard?

On 15/05/2019 4:06 AM, polymod wrote:
>
>
> "geoff"* wrote in message
> ...
>
> While we are at it does anybody have a schematic an ElectroKey piano.
>
> Similar concept to a Wurli - to the point Wurlitzer got them shut down.
>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

>
> I remember selling those at a piano/mi store many years ago. Interesting
> sound.
> In case you didn't stumble on this older thread, it looks like the top
> poster has a wiring diagram...or at least a portion of it.
>
> https://ep-forum.com/smf/index.php?topic=8916.0
>
>
> Poly
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>


Thanks Poly - following up on the forum thread. Mine one has a
solid-state amp, which I suspect has germanium transistors.

geoff
  #10  
Old May 15th 19, 06:52 AM posted to rec.audio.pro
Paul[_13_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 869
Default Does Anyone have a Schematic for a Sound City Joanna PianoKeyboard?

On 5/13/2019 10:53 PM, Paul wrote:
> On 5/13/2019 1:00 PM, Paul wrote:
>> On 5/13/2019 8:45 AM, ChrisG wrote:
>>> On 5/13/2019 6:03 AM, Paul wrote:
>>>> On 5/13/2019 3:48 AM, Paul wrote:
>>>>> On 5/12/2019 3:16 AM, Paul wrote:
>>>>>> Mine looks just like this one:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> **** https://www.matrixsynth.com/2017/07/...ty-joanna.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The power switch LED turns on, but nothing on the output.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A schematic would sure be helpful....
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *** Oh, nevermind.* It works.
>>> I used to successfully employ heavy guitar strings on Farfisa and Vox
>>> organs. They would need to be wound with a metal that could be
>>> soldered though, bronze maybe? I later learned that the original
>>> busbars and springs on better quality instruments were often gold
>>> plated, so I probably caused a lot of destructive wear and tear, but
>>> I didn’t know and didn’t care in those days. I just wanted the thing
>>> to work when I needed it.
>>> Everything corrodes, but gold on gold is pretty good until it wears
>>> through. If they’re gold, it may be worth transplanting old springs
>>> from the upper keys to the midrange to preserve the busbar, and
>>> kludge the lesser-used contacts.

>>
>> ****** OK, that sounds like a good idea. Heavy guitar strings.* I don't
>> think these are gold-plated, but I could be wrong.
>>
>> ****** I just compared them, and the guitar strings are definitely
>> much stiffer, and less pliant, than the original springs, but it
>> looks like it should work.
>>
>> ****** Still, is there a source for the original raw spring material?* It
>> would be better, because the stiffer guitar string would definitely
>> affect the action and feel of the keyboard a small bit.
>>
>> ****** But this all answers the question of why there were 10 springs
>> missing in the first place!* They were clearly taken from this unit,
>> and put into another keyboard.* And I noticed on the Vintage Synth
>> website, that they are selling these springs USED, for about $4 a piece!
>>
>> ****** Hmmmm....no wonder people like to buy old keyboards for the
>> parts only!
>>
>> ****** :/
>>
>>
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *** I just need to clean the key springs, and buy new ones
>>>>> for the ones that are missing.
>>>>>
>>>>> *** But a weird sounding keyboard for sure!* Nothing like
>>>>> that old Italian analog sound!
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *** Ok, can I just go to somewhere like Home Depot, and
>>>> get stock spring, to replace the old, worn out key
>>>> springs?* Like get a long length of it, and cut them
>>>> to size?
>>>>
>>>> *** Here is a picture of similar Crumar key springs:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://xbs111.files.wordpress.com/2...-springs-2.jpg
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *** Thanks for any advice.
>>>>

>
> **** Ok, the guitar string idea works great!* 0.052"!
>
> **** There isn't really an issue with a difference
> in the feel of the action, because like most organs,
> each key is only ON or OFF.* There is no velocity
> information, and most of the forces on the key, come
> from the thicker main spring of each key, not the thin
> contact springs.* So consequently, I don't feel a
> difference in the action, on the keys with the guitar
> string replacement.
>
> **** But I have found two more issues:
>
> **** 1)* How do I level the white keys on this unit?
>
> **** 2)* The high G# does not decay properly like the other keys.
> ******** It almost acts like it has the sustain pedal down all the
> ******** time.* So it keeps sustaining while the other keys decay
> ******** and taper off as they should.* It seems like it's some
> ******** sort of RC time constant, so I will probe, and check
> ******** the components around this key, and compare them to it's
> ******** neighboring keys.


Ok, issue #2 has disappeared for some reason, after I cleaned
and did some in-circuit impedance checking. After checking the
keys again, the G# decays properly now.

I also found out how to level the keys. There is a small
plastic box on each key, and a corresponding metal finger for
each key, with a rubber stop on the top and bottom. This controls
the key dip, and the key leveling when at rest.

I could shim each key, but I don't think it's worth my
time, since I think the sound and play-ability of this keyboard
is not exactly my cup of tea. It's kind of like an analog
clavi-chord, with some vibrato, but it's rather limited, with only
the basic clav sound, and a basic electric piano voice.

So I will likely put this unit up on Ebay. I'm sure
a collector of old Italian keyboards will buy it! Definitely
a historical, and rare unit!


 




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