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#1
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The Charts and 1-Hit Wonders
Perhaps because the names of only a few one-hitters stick in my mind, I
never realized these stats: http://digitalmusicnews.com/permalin...120311charting -- shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/ http://www.youtube.com/walkinaymusic http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShaidri |
#2
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The Charts and 1-Hit Wonders
hank alrich wrote:
Perhaps because the names of only a few one-hitters stick in my mind, I never realized these stats: http://digitalmusicnews.com/permalin...120311charting Is there a histogram somewhere of number of hits for all who charted? Be interesting to see how that works. Bet it's a power law. -- Les Cargill |
#3
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The Charts and 1-Hit Wonders
wrote:
I was wondering if the stats for various years could be interpreted as a reflection of the musical "discernment" (or demand) of the time, but then I noticed "hits" are limited to Billboard magazine's top 100... Well that has been the definition of a "hit" for a long time, and often it did reflect sales, which derived from airplay. Billboard is now falling on hard times, along with the industry it served. Back when I was managing AWHQ it hit my desk weekly. At the time it was a roadmap of much of the action, and who was behind whom and what. -- shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/ http://www.youtube.com/walkinaymusic http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShaidri |
#4
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The Charts and 1-Hit Wonders
On 3/13/2012 8:38 AM, hank alrich wrote:
wrote: I was wondering if the stats for various years could be interpreted as a reflection of the musical "discernment" (or demand) of the time, but then I noticed "hits" are limited to Billboard magazine's top 100... Well that has been the definition of a "hit" for a long time, and often it did reflect sales, which derived from airplay. Billboard is now falling on hard times, along with the industry it served. Back when I was managing AWHQ it hit my desk weekly. At the time it was a roadmap of much of the action, and who was behind whom and what. It seems that listening to the radio is something only old guys do these days. I get the feeling that a lot of kids don't want to hear stuff that gets played on that archaic medium. Pop stars no longer hold much sway, these days - unless they're country stars, of course. |
#5
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The Charts and 1-Hit Wonders
On Mar 13, 1:27*pm, (hank alrich) wrote:
Perhaps because the names of only a few one-hitters stick in my mind, I never realized these stats: Makes an already gloomy prospect even gloomier for those aspiring to be "pop stars". Even if you make it to the Impossible Dream and have a charting hit, odds are it won't last. Wonder if there's a clearly identifiable difference between the one- hitters and those who have lengthier careers. It certainly isn't always talent - think Madonna and Britney Spears. |
#6
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The Charts and 1-Hit Wonders
On 3/13/2012 4:19 PM, dsi1 wrote:
It seems that listening to the radio is something only old guys do these days. Hey! I resemble that remark! I listen to the radio, though much of it these days is college and community radio stations that I get over the Internet. It comes out of the same speakers as are connected to my FM receiver, though. I like it. I have a handful of stations that I can listen to nearly any time, not hear the same 10 songs over and over, hear music that I enjoy, and other than during fundraising week (and there seems to be a plot for them all to do it at the same time so you can't escape) there are no commercials (though there are "sponsorships" and "underwriters" Pop stars no longer hold much sway, these days - unless they're country stars, of course. Doesn't bother me. I rarely hear pop stars, and when I do, it's only coincidental. -- "Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge of audio." - John Watkinson http://mikeriversaudio.wordpress.com - useful and interesting audio stuff |
#7
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The Charts and 1-Hit Wonders
On Mar 13, 1:38*pm, (hank alrich) wrote:
wrote: I was wondering if the stats for various years could be interpreted as a reflection of the musical "discernment" (or demand) of the time, but then I noticed "hits" are limited to Billboard magazine's top 100... Well that has been the definition of a "hit" for a long time, and often it did reflect sales, which derived from airplay. Billboard is now falling on hard times, along with the industry it served. Back when I was managing AWHQ it hit my desk weekly. At the time it was a roadmap of much of the action, and who was behind whom and what. Yeah, understood - I guess I was just lamenting the common association of "pop hit" with "good music". But then again, it's like wine: "good wine is whatever you like". |
#8
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The Charts and 1-Hit Wonders
wrote:
On Mar 13, 1:38 pm, (hank alrich) wrote: wrote: I was wondering if the stats for various years could be interpreted as a reflection of the musical "discernment" (or demand) of the time, but then I noticed "hits" are limited to Billboard magazine's top 100... Well that has been the definition of a "hit" for a long time, and often it did reflect sales, which derived from airplay. Billboard is now falling on hard times, along with the industry it served. Back when I was managing AWHQ it hit my desk weekly. At the time it was a roadmap of much of the action, and who was behind whom and what. Yeah, understood - I guess I was just lamenting the common association of "pop hit" with "good music". But then again, it's like wine: "good wine is whatever you like". Alison Kraus has made that chart. -- shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/ http://www.youtube.com/walkinaymusic http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShaidri |
#9
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The Charts and 1-Hit Wonders
On 3/14/2012 8:28 AM, hank alrich wrote:
wrote: On Mar 13, 1:38 pm, (hank alrich) wrote: wrote: I was wondering if the stats for various years could be interpreted as a reflection of the musical "discernment" (or demand) of the time, but then I noticed "hits" are limited to Billboard magazine's top 100... Well that has been the definition of a "hit" for a long time, and often it did reflect sales, which derived from airplay. Billboard is now falling on hard times, along with the industry it served. Back when I was managing AWHQ it hit my desk weekly. At the time it was a roadmap of much of the action, and who was behind whom and what. Yeah, understood - I guess I was just lamenting the common association of "pop hit" with "good music". But then again, it's like wine: "good wine is whatever you like". Alison Kraus has made that chart. My mistake. I thought it was "good wine is whatever you've got." |
#10
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The Charts and 1-Hit Wonders
On Mar 13, 5:27*pm, (hank alrich) wrote:
Perhaps because the names of only a few one-hitters stick in my mind, I never realized these stats: http://digitalmusicnews.com/permalin...120311charting -- shut up and play your guitar *http://hankalrich.com/http://www.you...HankandShaidri It's a numbers game. "There's only room for so many at the top" meets "Every dog has its day". |
#11
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The Charts and 1-Hit Wonders
On Mar 14, 12:20*pm, muzician21 wrote:
Wonder if there's a clearly identifiable difference between the one- hitters and those who have lengthier careers. It certainly isn't always talent - think Madonna and Britney Spears. Fitting into the industry machine helps. (And that does take talent). Connecting with ordinary people. Timing. |
#12
Posted to rec.music.makers.guitar.acoustic,rec.audio.pro
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The Charts and 1-Hit Wonders
"hank alrich" wrote in message ... Perhaps because the names of only a few one-hitters stick in my mind, I never realized these stats: http://digitalmusicnews.com/permalin...120311charting -- shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/ http://www.youtube.com/walkinaymusic http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShaidri ******************** I wouldn't have guessed that either. I'm also surprised at the uniformity and flatness of the proportion, in spite of changing genres and industry marketing techniques. Like Les, I would like to see some kind of frequency statistics, though I wouldn't have said power law. More likely something like Poisson, though my stats theory isn't good enough for the fine print of that. Tony D |
#13
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The Charts and 1-Hit Wonders
In article ,
"Tony Done" wrote: I wouldn't have guessed that either. I'm also surprised at the uniformity and flatness of the proportion, in spite of changing genres and industry marketing techniques. Like Les, I would like to see some kind of frequency statistics, though I wouldn't have said power law. More likely something like Poisson, though my stats theory isn't good enough for the fine print of that. Tony D Of course they are talking about the "Top 100". Many of them may have crept in at position 99 or 100 with a once in a lifetime stroke of luck rather than a heap of talent. We are talking about popularity not quality. MJRB |
#14
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The Charts and 1-Hit Wonders
"Mike Brown" wrote in message ... In article , "Tony Done" wrote: I wouldn't have guessed that either. I'm also surprised at the uniformity and flatness of the proportion, in spite of changing genres and industry marketing techniques. Like Les, I would like to see some kind of frequency statistics, though I wouldn't have said power law. More likely something like Poisson, though my stats theory isn't good enough for the fine print of that. Tony D Of course they are talking about the "Top 100". Many of them may have crept in at position 99 or 100 with a once in a lifetime stroke of luck rather than a heap of talent. We are talking about popularity not quality. MJRB *************** That's true, and very likely accounts for the great bulk of the effect. I wonder how many one hit wonders make the top 10? A much smaller proportion I would guess. Tony D |
#15
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The Charts and 1-Hit Wonders
"Tony Done" wrote in message ... Of course they are talking about the "Top 100". Many of them may have crept in at position 99 or 100 with a once in a lifetime stroke of luck rather than a heap of talent. We are talking about popularity not quality. MJRB *************** That's true, and very likely accounts for the great bulk of the effect. I wonder how many one hit wonders make the top 10? A much smaller proportion I would guess. Right, I wouldn't call number 100 a "hit", top 40 maybe, but top 10 seems more like it to me. Trevor. |
#16
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The Charts and 1-Hit Wonders
Trevor wrote:
"Tony Done" wrote in message ... Of course they are talking about the "Top 100". Many of them may have crept in at position 99 or 100 with a once in a lifetime stroke of luck rather than a heap of talent. We are talking about popularity not quality. MJRB *************** That's true, and very likely accounts for the great bulk of the effect. I wonder how many one hit wonders make the top 10? A much smaller proportion I would guess. Right, I wouldn't call number 100 a "hit", top 40 maybe, but top 10 seems more like it to me. With thousands of songs released yearyl, yeah, top 100 is a hit, with substantial sales and airplay. -- shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/ http://www.youtube.com/walkinaymusic http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShaidri |
#17
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The Charts and 1-Hit Wonders
"hank alrich" wrote in message ... With thousands of songs released yearyl, yeah, top 100 is a hit, with substantial sales and airplay. As always, everyone has their own definition. You are welcome to yours, and I don't agree! If it didn't make the top 40, *I* certainly wouldn't call it a "hit". Maybe some would say anything in the top 1000 is a "hit", at least those who failed to make the top 100 I guess :-) Trevor. |
#18
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The Charts and 1-Hit Wonders
Trevor wrote:
"hank alrich" wrote in message ... With thousands of songs released yearyl, yeah, top 100 is a hit, with substantial sales and airplay. As always, everyone has their own definition. You are welcome to yours, and I don't agree! If it didn't make the top 40, *I* certainly wouldn't call it a "hit". Maybe some would say anything in the top 1000 is a "hit", at least those who failed to make the top 100 I guess :-) Trevor. It's not up to you or me to define what is a hit. Billboard did that for decades. They have their reasons, derived from what I wrote. Out of the total number of releases, a very tiny percentage makes/made the top 100. If you put out a song and it made the top 100, you'd be busy enough for a while to think you had a hit. -- shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/ http://www.youtube.com/walkinaymusic http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShaidri |
#19
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The Charts and 1-Hit Wonders
On Wed, 14 Mar 2012 05:20:12 -0700, muzician21 wrote
(in article ): Wonder if there's a clearly identifiable difference between the one- hitters and those who have lengthier careers. It certainly isn't always talent - think Madonna and Britney Spears. ------------------------------snip------------------------------ The other interesting stat: it's a rare musician or group who can sustain a career for more than 4 or 5 years. Even more rare when an artist like Paul McCartney, Cher, or Elton John (there's an interesting trilogy) who can keep having a major music career for four decades or more. These stats have been presented in Joel Whitburn's RECORD RESEARCH books for many years: http://www.recordresearch.com/ Note that this only accounts for the BILLBOARD statistics alone. There's a lot of other ways to assess musical success or historical importance; for example, artists like Neil Diamond and Barbra Streisand still sell a lot of albums and do well in live performances, but haven't had bona fide Top 40 hits in years. So the pop charts alone don't tell the whole story. Note also that BILLBOARD magazine is in terrible trouble. I believe they recently jettisoned a good chunk of their staff, including their editor and publisher: http://www.thewrap.com/media/column-...tor-out-other- top-staffers-follow-36116 --MFW |
#20
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The Charts and 1-Hit Wonders
On Mar 16, 1:42*am, (hank alrich) wrote:
It's not up to you or me to define what is a hit. Billboard did that for decades. They have their reasons, derived from what I wrote. Out of the total number of releases, a very tiny percentage makes/made the top 100. If you put out a song and it made the top 100, you'd be busy enough for a while to think you had a hit. If I put out a song and it made the top 100, I'd probably be lying on the ground surrounded by paramedics trying to revive me. CLEAR!!! bzzzzzzzzzzWHUMP! |
#21
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The Charts and 1-Hit Wonders
On Fri, 16 Mar 2012 02:46:39 -0700, against all advice, something
compelled Marc Wielage , to say: Note also that BILLBOARD magazine is in terrible trouble. Are people scouring the interwebs looking for music they like, as opposed to taking whatever crap Teh Top Fwarty says they should like? -- I believe a self-righteous liberal or conservative with a cause is more dangerous than a Hell's Angel with an attitude. Andy Rooney |
#22
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The Charts and 1-Hit Wonders
"hank alrich" wrote in message ... As always, everyone has their own definition. You are welcome to yours, and I don't agree! If it didn't make the top 40, *I* certainly wouldn't call it a "hit". Maybe some would say anything in the top 1000 is a "hit", at least those who failed to make the top 100 I guess :-) It's not up to you or me to define what is a hit. Billboard did that for decades. They mainly listed the top 40 for most of them. But Billboard was not given a right to decide by God in any case. My opinion is as valid (or not) as yours or theirs. And IMO actual sales are far more indicative than chart positions which don't account for total sales, and depend largely on the strength of the competition at the time of release. Trevor. |
#23
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The Charts and 1-Hit Wonders
Trevor wrote:
"hank alrich" wrote in message ... As always, everyone has their own definition. You are welcome to yours, and I don't agree! If it didn't make the top 40, *I* certainly wouldn't call it a "hit". Maybe some would say anything in the top 1000 is a "hit", at least those who failed to make the top 100 I guess :-) It's not up to you or me to define what is a hit. Billboard did that for decades. They mainly listed the top 40 for most of them. But Billboard was not given a right to decide by God in any case. They determined it according to numbers. It ain't like this **** is religion. For quite a while Neilson Soundscan is how the numbers are gathered. My opinion is as valid (or not) as yours or theirs. Show your work. Let's see your numbers. talk is cheap, as are opinions. They're working from stats. You? And IMO actual sales are far more indicative than chart positions which don't account for total sales, and depend largely on the strength of the competition at the time of release. Numbers are determined by adding up the scans at the point of sale. -- shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/ http://www.youtube.com/walkinaymusic http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShaidri |
#24
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The Charts and 1-Hit Wonders
"hank alrich" wrote in message ... It's not up to you or me to define what is a hit. Billboard did that for decades. They mainly listed the top 40 for most of them. But Billboard was not given a right to decide by God in any case. They determined it according to numbers. It ain't like this **** is religion. For quite a while Neilson Soundscan is how the numbers are gathered. Right, a sampled suryvey open to big errors. And the cut off of top 10, top 40, top 100, top 1,000, top 1 million, is simply whatever they or you choose at any given time. Hardly something to be so pig headed about! My opinion is as valid (or not) as yours or theirs. Show your work. Let's see your numbers. talk is cheap, as are opinions. They're working from stats. You? Me, I prefer REAL figures like *actual* total sales world wide. (but even the record companies cheat, so those figures are not accurate either, usually far better than the radio station, and billboard Top10/40/100 list however) That YOU don't think anyone else is even entitled to an opinion on the matter says a lot for your arrogance, but little else. And IMO actual sales are far more indicative than chart positions which don't account for total sales, and depend largely on the strength of the competition at the time of release. Numbers are determined by adding up the scans at the point of sale. AFAIK you were around long before scans existed, just as I was. They simply sampled a number of *selected* resale outlets for their sales figures, however the shops compiled them. And surely you remember all the rigging that went on at the time, and payola in the broadcast industry to increase sales. Or is you memory going? Trevor. |
#25
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The Charts and 1-Hit Wonders
Trevor wrote:
"hank alrich" wrote in message ... It's not up to you or me to define what is a hit. Billboard did that for decades. They mainly listed the top 40 for most of them. But Billboard was not given a right to decide by God in any case. They determined it according to numbers. It ain't like this **** is religion. For quite a while Neilson Soundscan is how the numbers are gathered. Right, a sampled suryvey open to big errors. And the cut off of top 10, top 40, top 100, top 1,000, top 1 million, is simply whatever they or you choose at any given time. Hardly something to be so pig headed about! "Nielsen SoundScan began tracking sales data for Nielsen since March 1, 1991" Something maybe you should look into if you want to sound like you know something about this. My opinion is as valid (or not) as yours or theirs. Show your work. Let's see your numbers. talk is cheap, as are opinions. They're working from stats. You? Me, I prefer REAL figures like *actual* total sales world wide. (but even the record companies cheat, so those figures are not accurate either, usually far better than the radio station, and billboard Top10/40/100 list however) See above. Some aspects of the business stil use an outdated methodology, but the charts have been based on sales for more than two decades. That YOU don't think anyone else is even entitled to an opinion on the matter says a lot for your arrogance, but little else. Opinions may or may not be based on knowledge or experience. I weight them accordingly. And IMO actual sales are far more indicative than chart positions which don't account for total sales, and depend largely on the strength of the competition at the time of release. Numbers are determined by adding up the scans at the point of sale. AFAIK you were around long before scans existed, just as I was. They simply sampled a number of *selected* resale outlets for their sales figures, however the shops compiled them. And surely you remember all the rigging that went on at the time, and payola in the broadcast industry to increase sales. Or is you memory going? "Sales data from cash registers is collected from 14,000 retail, mass merchant, and non-traditional (on-line stores, venues, digital music services, etc.) outlets in the United States, Canada and the U.K." -- shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/ http://www.youtube.com/walkinaymusic http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShaidri |
#26
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The Charts and 1-Hit Wonders
"hank alrich" wrote in message ... "Nielsen SoundScan began tracking sales data for Nielsen since March 1, 1991" Something maybe you should look into if you want to sound like you know something about this. Why, I'm certainly interested in what happened before 1991, even if you aren't. Me, I prefer REAL figures like *actual* total sales world wide. (but even the record companies cheat, so those figures are not accurate either, usually far better than the radio station, and billboard Top10/40/100 list however) See above. Some aspects of the business stil use an outdated methodology, but the charts have been based on sales for more than two decades. Which excludes muuch of the music I have then. I was sure you were more than 21YO yourself? That YOU don't think anyone else is even entitled to an opinion on the matter says a lot for your arrogance, but little else. Opinions may or may not be based on knowledge or experience. I weight them accordingly. Me too, but I still get to have one, just as you seem to think you do. "Sales data from cash registers is collected from 14,000 retail, mass merchant, and non-traditional (on-line stores, venues, digital music services, etc.) outlets in the United States, Canada and the U.K." NOW it is, so what? Trevor. |
#27
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The Charts and 1-Hit Wonders
On Fri, 16 Mar 2012 08:11:21 -0700, Steve Daniels wrote
(in article ): Are people scouring the interwebs looking for music they like, as opposed to taking whatever crap Teh Top Fwarty says they should like? ------------------------------snip------------------------------ I think the death of mass-market CD stores and the downward-spiral of radio ratings, plus the awful economy, has taken its toll on a lot businesses. Especially Music and Radio. It's scary to reflect that right now, if you can sell 5000 albums in one week, that's enough to put you on the BILLBOARD Top 200. That used to be considered a flop. I seem to recall a few months ago where a #1 album only sold about 60,000 copies, which is stunningly low compared to where things used to be. The economy sucks. --MFW |
#28
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The Charts and 1-Hit Wonders
In article ,
Marc Wielage wrote: On Fri, 16 Mar 2012 08:11:21 -0700, Steve Daniels wrote (in article ): Are people scouring the interwebs looking for music they like, as opposed to taking whatever crap Teh Top Fwarty says they should like? ------------------------------snip------------------------------ I think the death of mass-market CD stores and the downward-spiral of radio ratings, plus the awful economy, has taken its toll on a lot businesses. Especially Music and Radio. It's scary to reflect that right now, if you can sell 5000 albums in one week, that's enough to put you on the BILLBOARD Top 200. That used to be considered a flop. I seem to recall a few months ago where a #1 album only sold about 60,000 copies, which is stunningly low compared to where things used to be. The economy sucks. --MFW There are still a few CD shops around, generally the better ones have survived. I ordered a triple CD Leonard Cohen set the other day. MJRB |
#29
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The Charts and 1-Hit Wonders
On Mon, 19 Mar 2012 03:35:53 -0700, Mike Brown wrote
(in article ): There are still a few CD shops around, generally the better ones have survived. I ordered a triple CD Leonard Cohen set the other day. ------------------------------snip------------------------------ Maybe down under, but dedicated CD stores are an endangered species in LA. I'm not sure if there's anybody that just sells new CDs and nothing else. We have Amoeba, which is a California chain of used CD & LP stores, but all the other chains -- Tower Records, Virgin Music, etc. -- have all vanished. And the CD bins at the major electronic retailers here (Best Buy, Fry's, etc.) are getting smaller and smaller. Very sad. --MFW |
#30
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The Charts and 1-Hit Wonders
In article ,
Marc Wielage wrote: On Mon, 19 Mar 2012 03:35:53 -0700, Mike Brown wrote (in article ): There are still a few CD shops around, generally the better ones have survived. I ordered a triple CD Leonard Cohen set the other day. ------------------------------snip------------------------------ Maybe down under, but dedicated CD stores are an endangered species in LA. I'm not sure if there's anybody that just sells new CDs and nothing else. We have Amoeba, which is a California chain of used CD & LP stores, but all the other chains -- Tower Records, Virgin Music, etc. -- have all vanished. And the CD bins at the major electronic retailers here (Best Buy, Fry's, etc.) are getting smaller and smaller. Very sad. --MFW This one sells CDs, DVDs, and Books, it's been around for quite a while and I'm hoping it manages to survive. MJRB |
#31
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The Charts and 1-Hit Wonders
"Marc Wielage" wrote in message .com... On Mon, 19 Mar 2012 03:35:53 -0700, Mike Brown wrote (in article ): There are still a few CD shops around, generally the better ones have survived. I ordered a triple CD Leonard Cohen set the other day. ------------------------------snip------------------------------ Maybe down under, but dedicated CD stores are an endangered species in LA. I'm not sure if there's anybody that just sells new CDs and nothing else. What does it matter if they sell other things? Our biggest CD store chain is JB HiFi who sell all manner of audio and video equipment, along with CD's, DVD's and Blu-Ray discs. They also stock far more CD's that any of the CD only stores ever did, and those that have managed to survive. Although a couple of dedicated ones do specialise in niche genres only if that's your thing. Most of those have long gone though, and I suspect any left will soon follow. Far easier for them to reach a wider audience at lower cost on the web now. Trevor. |
#32
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The Charts and 1-Hit Wonders
On Mar 23, 10:30*pm, "Trevor" wrote:
"Marc Wielage" wrote in message .com... On Mon, 19 Mar 2012 03:35:53 -0700, Mike Brown wrote (in article ): There are still a few CD shops around, generally the better ones have survived. I ordered a triple CD Leonard Cohen set the other day. ------------------------------snip------------------------------ Maybe down under, but dedicated CD stores are an endangered species in LA. I'm not sure if there's anybody that just sells new CDs and nothing else. What does it matter if they sell other things? Our biggest CD store chain is JB HiFi who sell all manner of audio and video equipment, along with CD's, DVD's and Blu-Ray discs. They also stock far more CD's that any of the CD only stores ever did, and those that have managed to survive. Although a couple of dedicated ones do specialise in niche genres only if that's your thing. Most of those have long gone though, and I suspect any left will soon follow. Far easier for them to reach a wider audience at lower cost on the web now. Trevor. These stats are misleading. The Billboard top 100 is not the top 40 that are in active on air rotation A lot of flops just sneak into the 90 to 100 spots and fall off. Top 40 is the major league. |
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The Charts and 1-Hit Wonders
wrote in message ... These stats are misleading. The Billboard top 100 is not the top 40 that are in active on air rotation A lot of flops just sneak into the 90 to 100 spots and fall off. Top 40 is the major league. That was my point, seems others disagree with us. Trevor. |
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