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#81
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Sue you, sue me blues
hank alrich wrote:
You're in a loop and you can't get out, because your mind is closed and your mouth is open. See Mose Allison for help. What about George Clinton? --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#82
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Sue you, sue me blues
Bill Graham wrote:
I do perform it for free. And, I don't mind paying for the sheet music, or for CD's of the music. but when the BMI police tell the Pizza store owner (or whoever) that they have to pay $1000 dollars a year because he is using their music to draw customers into his establishment and we are playing there for free, so he has little choice but to stop us, then I object to that. Then, do something about it. We're tired of hearing about it. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#83
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Sue you, sue me blues
On May 26, 8:33*pm, "Bill Graham" wrote:
1957 was over 50 years ago, and BMI is not giving any of that money to anyone who composed any music between 1927 and 1957. Do you have any evidence to support that claim? If not, you shouldn't make it. Peace, Paul |
#84
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Sue you, sue me blues
Scott Dorsey writes:
their music to draw customers into his establishment and we are playing there for free, so he has little choice but to stop us, then I object to that. Then, do something about it. We're tired of hearing about it. I'm with Rick and Scott on this. Bill should do something about it, or shut up. BIll has obviously never created anything in his life, so he has no respect for people who have. tHIs goes along with his inability to pay attention in civics class or he'd know that if he wants the laws changed he has to approach the legislative branch of government. Richard -- | Remove .my.foot for email | via Waldo's Place USA Fidonet-Internet Gateway Site | Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his own. |
#85
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Sue you, sue me blues
Scott Dorsey wrote:
Bill Graham wrote: I do perform it for free. And, I don't mind paying for the sheet music, or for CD's of the music. but when the BMI police tell the Pizza store owner (or whoever) that they have to pay $1000 dollars a year because he is using their music to draw customers into his establishment and we are playing there for free, so he has little choice but to stop us, then I object to that. Then, do something about it. We're tired of hearing about it. --scott No. YOU are tired of hearing about it. I was answering others who are still talking about it. When they stop, then I will stop. Until then, I am free to answer any and all comments about it, regardless of how tired you are. |
#86
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Sue you, sue me blues
John Williamson wrote:
Bill Graham wrote: John Williamson wrote: Bill Graham wrote: Ben Bradley wrote: On Mon, 23 May 2011 08:18:15 -0700, Rick Ruskin wrote: If he wants free music to perform, he should write some and give it away. It's enough to make one go baroque. Otherwise, he should shut the **** up. That music was written like 60 years ago. The people who wrote it are all dead and gone. BMI has no business collecting a dime for any of it. It should all be in the public domain. Instead of a fixed year, (like 1927) the year before which music enters the public domain should go up a year every year. Maqybe 1927 was a good cut-off point 30 years ago, but today it should be 30 years after that, or 1957. If BMI collects money for its performance, then who do they give that money to? Do you suppose they keep it for themselves? I think they do. I think they are just a bunch of lawyers lining their own pockets with money they are stealing from the public. Look at it from the writer's side. The composer writes a piece of music in his twenties. Ha possibly has no income apart from royalties, which aren't enough for him to build up a decent pension pot, but he knows that if the music keeps being played, he'll get money for that. His (or her) spouse may well survive them by a number of years, and wll need the money that BMI (Or, over here, PRS and MCPS) collect on their behalf to survive. Or, it may be paying for the composer's children to go through music college to write and perform more music. Now you want to come along and make money one the back of their creativity, but you're not going to pay them a dime. Does that sound fair? Also, if the music's so out of date it's not worth paying royalties for, then I assume you perform it for free, and don't see why any musician playing the "worthless" stuff that *is* out of copyright should get paid. Say, the members of the New York Philharmonic. I do perform it for free. And, I don't mind paying for the sheet music, or for CD's of the music. but when the BMI police tell the Pizza store owner (or whoever) that they have to pay $1000 dollars a year because he is using their music to draw customers into his establishment and we are playing there for free, so he has little choice but to stop us, then I object to that. Especially when the music was written in the years between 1927 and 1957, and the only people who appreciate it are in their seventies. (usually from the local retirement centers) 1957 was over 50 years ago, and BMI is not giving any of that money to anyone who composed any music between 1927 and 1957. The fee is to play *any* music, not just the stuff you play. The shop owner could, for the same fee, get a modern band in to play modern music. The fee is also, as has been said elsewhere in the thread, negotiable to a degree if you want to make the effort. Mind you, the fee of $1000 a year is less than the profit on a dozen extra pizzas a week, and hopefully, he's seeing more than a dozen people a week extra through his doors due to your playing. If not, then maybe he needs a better band. If BMI do the same as the PRS in Britain, then part of the money collected is also paid to the estate of dead composers. Neither BMI there or the PRS here *own* the music. They act *solely* as a collection agent on behalf of the composers or other rights holders that have asked them to do so. However, as you seem to be uninterested in the facts, I'll say no more. I am not, "uninterested" in the facts. I just don't like the facts. And, unlike a hell of a lot of other people, I am willing to say so. I don't believe that everything the government does, or all the laws they make, are "A" ok. |
#87
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Sue you, sue me blues
On May 27, 5:00*pm, "Bill Graham" wrote:
John Williamson wrote: Bill Graham wrote: John Williamson wrote: Bill Graham wrote: Ben Bradley wrote: On Mon, 23 May 2011 08:18:15 -0700, Rick Ruskin wrote: If he wants free music to perform, he should write some and give it away. * It's enough to make one go baroque. Otherwise, he should shut the **** up. That music was written like 60 years ago. The people who wrote it are all dead and gone. BMI has no business collecting a dime for any of it. It should all be in the public domain. Instead of a fixed year, (like 1927) the year before which music enters the public domain should go up a year every year. Maqybe 1927 was a good cut-off point 30 years ago, but today it should be 30 years after that, or 1957. If BMI collects money for its performance, then who do they give that money to? Do you suppose they keep it for themselves? I think they do. I think they are just a bunch of lawyers lining their own pockets with money they are stealing from the public. Look at it from the writer's side. The composer writes a piece of music in his twenties. Ha possibly has no income apart from royalties, which aren't enough for him to build up a decent pension pot, but he knows that if the music keeps being played, he'll get money for that. His (or her) spouse may well survive them by a number of years, and wll need the money that BMI (Or, over here, PRS and MCPS) collect on their behalf to survive. Or, it may be paying for the composer's children to go through music college to write and perform more music. Now you want to come along and make money one the back of their creativity, but you're not going to pay them a dime. Does that sound fair? Also, if the music's so out of date it's not worth paying royalties for, then I assume you perform it for free, and don't see why any musician playing the "worthless" stuff that *is* out of copyright should get paid. Say, the members of the New York Philharmonic. I do perform it for free. And, I don't mind paying for the sheet music, or for CD's of the music. but when the BMI police tell the Pizza store owner (or whoever) that they have to pay $1000 dollars a year because he is using their music to draw customers into his establishment and we are playing there for free, so he has little choice but to stop us, then I object to that. Especially when the music was written in the years between 1927 and 1957, and the only people who appreciate it are in their seventies. (usually from the local retirement centers) 1957 was over 50 years ago, and BMI is not giving any of that money to anyone who composed any music between 1927 and 1957. The fee is to play *any* music, not just the stuff you play. The shop owner could, for the same fee, get a modern band in to play modern music. The fee is also, as has been said elsewhere in the thread, negotiable to a degree if you want to make the effort. Mind you, the fee of $1000 a year is less than the profit on a dozen extra pizzas a week, and hopefully, he's seeing more than a dozen people a week extra through his doors due to your playing. If not, then maybe he needs a better band. If BMI do the same as the PRS in Britain, then part of the money collected is also paid to the estate of dead composers. Neither BMI there or the PRS here *own* the music. They act *solely* as a collection agent on behalf of the composers or other rights holders that have asked them to do so. However, as you seem to be uninterested in the facts, I'll say no more. I am not, "uninterested" in the facts. I just don't like the facts. You have shown no interest in the facts. What you don't like seems to be a bunch of non-factual garbarge that you apparently just pulled out of your asshole, presumably to make more room for your head. The situation that you keep whining about doesn't exist. But you refuse to acknowledge the facts, prefering to repeat a load of utter crap, on a forum where many of us actually know how it really works, from actual experience. Not from some half-baked whine fest from an ill-informed jerk who has no interest in the facts. Yeah, you keep repeating your whining, but you're only whining about a situation that exists in your dumb**** imagination. Not anything in the real world. You have clearly and unambiguously proven that you have no interest in the facts. You just like to whine that you should get a free ride, being the leech that you are. And if you had half a brain, you might even be able to get that free ride that you think you're entitled to. But that would require listening to the real facts, from people that actually know the situation, and actually dealing with real people without constantly bleating about some bull**** that's only in your imagination. And as much as you'd like to sponge off the free ride that you think you deserve, you seem to prefer spouting your ignorance, proving far and wide to anyone that reads you tirades, that you're ****ing moron. That seems to be your real goal. Mission accomplished, Numpty. Nope, you're not interested in the facts, and you've provided the proof of that. |
#88
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Sue you, sue me blues
On May 26, 9:33*pm, "Bill Graham" wrote:
I do perform it for free. And, I don't mind paying for the sheet music, or for CD's of the music. but when the BMI police tell the Pizza store owner (or whoever) that they have to pay $1000 dollars a year because he is using their music to draw customers into his establishment and we are playing there for free, so he has little choice but to stop us, then I object to that. Especially when the music was written in the years between 1927 and 1957, and the only people who appreciate it are in their seventies. (usually from the local retirement centers) 1957 was over 50 years ago, and BMI is not giving any of that money to anyone who composed any music between 1927 and 1957 Where are you getting this figure from? Because I spoke with an establishment owner who claimed he was being held up for an $800 fee but it turned out that in truth it was for $500, and he probably ended up paying half of that. I wouldn't believe anyone, including the voices in your head, regarding why they're too broke to pay you. |
#89
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Sue you, sue me blues
On May 26, 9:33*pm, "Little Wille Dum****" reached
up his ass and pulled out: BMI is not giving any of that money to anyone who composed any music between 1927 and 1957. That statement is complete and utter bull****. It's patently false statements like this that can lead to the accusations that you aren't interested in facts. You're nothing but a blowhard and a leech. BMI is certainly paying songwriters their fees for performances of their songs written during those years, and it's not only geezers in diapers like you that like to listen to music from those years. That granite blockage in your rectum (your head) must really be backing you up. You should really consider the "curl up and die" option that you were considering earlier, since you've given up on the learn-the-facts option, and even the shut-your-whine- hole option. Dumb**** numpty. |
#90
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Sue you, sue me blues
vdubreeze wrote:
On May 26, 9:33 pm, "Bill Graham" wrote: I do perform it for free. And, I don't mind paying for the sheet music, or for CD's of the music. but when the BMI police tell the Pizza store owner (or whoever) that they have to pay $1000 dollars a year because he is using their music to draw customers into his establishment and we are playing there for free, so he has little choice but to stop us, then I object to that. Especially when the music was written in the years between 1927 and 1957, and the only people who appreciate it are in their seventies. (usually from the local retirement centers) 1957 was over 50 years ago, and BMI is not giving any of that money to anyone who composed any music between 1927 and 1957 Where are you getting this figure from? Because I spoke with an establishment owner who claimed he was being held up for an $800 fee but it turned out that in truth it was for $500, and he probably ended up paying half of that. I wouldn't believe anyone, including the voices in your head, regarding why they're too broke to pay you. Speaking of hearing voices.....I never said they paid me. They don't pay anyone for the music. We, (and Blake) are not pro's. We are retired people who like to play music. The Pizza parlor owner just lets us play in his place once a month. (or did, before the BMI brownshirts threatened to sue him if he didn't pay them $1000 a year) The law apparently says that if anybody makes any money at all from playing the music, even if there3 is no cover charge and all they are doing is attracting customers with it by making the place more pleasant because of it, then BMI can sue them for money. Now, Blake plays dixieland music, and there are quite a lot of good dixieland pieces written before 1923 (which is the cut-off year, I think) So, he could play that music, but he has to be able to prove that anything he plays was written before then, and the only way to do that is to have the actual first published sheet music with the copyright date printed on it. Blake can't do that, because he doesn't spend his life rummaging around in old sheet music bins in second hand stores and flea markets. The law is not only oppressive, but it puts the burden of proof on the suee, rather than the suer. IOW, BMI can go around suing musicians, no matter what they play and where they play it, and the musician has to prove that whatever it was he played was written before 1923. If that doesn't take the cake, I don't know what does. But, apparently, everyone on this forum sees nothing wrong with that, or they keep telling me that I aqm wrong. But the laws are right there on the books. Research it yourself. And, Blake's group is no longer performing once a month at the Pizza house. You are supposed to be innocent in this country unless and untiul someone proves you guilty. But with the copyright laws, this is not the case. These people can sue you, and they don't have to prove that you were playing music written after 1923. You have to prove that you weren't. Isn't that kind of like the police arresting you for murder, and they don't need any evidence that you committed the crime. YOU have to come up with the evidence that you didn't, or you will lose the case. |
#91
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Sue you, sue me blues
Bill Graham wrote:
No. YOU are tired of hearing about it. I was answering others who are still talking about it. When they stop, then I will stop. Until then, I am free to answer any and all comments about it, regardless of how tired you are. So, you want to keep talking about it, but you don't want to do anything about it? This is what we mean by "whining." --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#92
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Sue you, sue me blues
Bill Graham wrote:
I am not, "uninterested" in the facts. I just don't like the facts. And, unlike a hell of a lot of other people, I am willing to say so. I don't believe that everything the government does, or all the laws they make, are "A" ok. But you're totally ignorant of the facts. First you're blaming BMI, now you're blaming the government. But you aren't willing to actually talk to any of the people involved, for fear you might be wrong. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#93
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Sue you, sue me blues
On 5/27/2011 4:41 PM, Bill Graham wrote:
Scott Dorsey wrote: Bill Graham wrote: I do perform it for free. And, I don't mind paying for the sheet music, or for CD's of the music. but when the BMI police tell the Pizza store owner (or whoever) that they have to pay $1000 dollars a year because he is using their music to draw customers into his establishment and we are playing there for free, so he has little choice but to stop us, then I object to that. Then, do something about it. We're tired of hearing about it. --scott Bill, you are probably an intelligent person and even a logical person but you are doing a downright terrible job of selling your case! Now, I'm not a musician nor have I been doing any sound work for several years, so I don't have a dog in your fight. That said, it seems the charges for and enforcement of performances are seemingly both arbitrary and non-uniformly enforced. Thus: [en absurdum] can I sing in the shower ....if it can be heard in the business next door? Can I sing in public, walking down the street? Can I sing in a (public) park? Can I play my guitar in the park? How about in a parking lot? What if a friend (or friends) join(s) me? How close is my arrangement to being a derivative work, and who decides? What is the royalty value of said performance, along with why and who decides. What is the current value of the catalog from which the performance is derived? OK Bill, maybe you want to expand on some of those points. [Note: I never said nineteen-twenty-whatever ... etc.] Later... Ron Capik -- |
#94
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Sue you, sue me blues
Bill, I give you permission to perform in public anything I have
written before 1951. If ASCAP or BMI hassles you, tell them I said it was ok. Rick Ruskin Lion Dog Music - Seattle WA http://www.liondogmusic.com |
#95
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Sue you, sue me blues
Scott Dorsey wrote:
Bill Graham wrote: No. YOU are tired of hearing about it. I was answering others who are still talking about it. When they stop, then I will stop. Until then, I am free to answer any and all comments about it, regardless of how tired you are. So, you want to keep talking about it, but you don't want to do anything about it? This is what we mean by "whining." --scott Beats what you do.... Which is absolutely NOTHING! At least I voice a complaint. I can't storm the Bastiulle. but I can bring to the minds of those who can what's wrong with the society. The SS administration cheats everyone out of exactly one social security check. The one due them the month after the month they retire. The insurance companies cheat millions of people who own one or more vehicles than their are drivers in their families, by writing liability insurance on the vehicles rather than the drivers. Obama gave $4000 of my tax dollars to that bum down the block with clunkers all over his front lawn dragging our property values down even though I pedaled a bicycle to work for ten years. These are just a few of the things I bitch about. But life is apparently perfect for you. Someday, they will usher you and/or yours into a padded cell for the, "good of the society." Perhaps that will wake you up. Untiul then, have a happy day. |
#96
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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Sue you, sue me blues
Scott Dorsey wrote:
Bill Graham wrote: I am not, "uninterested" in the facts. I just don't like the facts. And, unlike a hell of a lot of other people, I am willing to say so. I don't believe that everything the government does, or all the laws they make, are "A" ok. But you're totally ignorant of the facts. First you're blaming BMI, now you're blaming the government. But you aren't willing to actually talk to any of the people involved, for fear you might be wrong. --scott How the hell do you know who I have talked to? I talk to these people all the time. Also, I have read the copyright laws. Its you who are wrong. You can't perform any songs written after 1923, in any place that takes in any money, and the burden of proof is on you to prove that anything you perform was written before then. That is a fact. They could legally bust us for playing dances at the local senior center because they have a little store there that sells coffee and cookies. Its you that are turning your back on an injustice. Wake up and read the facts. |
#97
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Sue you, sue me blues
Ron Capik wrote:
On 5/27/2011 4:41 PM, Bill Graham wrote: Scott Dorsey wrote: Bill Graham wrote: I do perform it for free. And, I don't mind paying for the sheet music, or for CD's of the music. but when the BMI police tell the Pizza store owner (or whoever) that they have to pay $1000 dollars a year because he is using their music to draw customers into his establishment and we are playing there for free, so he has little choice but to stop us, then I object to that. Then, do something about it. We're tired of hearing about it. --scott Bill, you are probably an intelligent person and even a logical person but you are doing a downright terrible job of selling your case! Now, I'm not a musician nor have I been doing any sound work for several years, so I don't have a dog in your fight. That said, it seems the charges for and enforcement of performances are seemingly both arbitrary and non-uniformly enforced. Thus: [en absurdum] can I sing in the shower ...if it can be heard in the business next door? Can I sing in public, walking down the street? Can I sing in a (public) park? Can I play my guitar in the park? How about in a parking lot? What if a friend (or friends) join(s) me? How close is my arrangement to being a derivative work, and who decides? What is the royalty value of said performance, along with why and who decides. What is the current value of the catalog from which the performance is derived? OK Bill, maybe you want to expand on some of those points. [Note: I never said nineteen-twenty-whatever ... etc.] Later... Ron Capik You can play anyplace if you only ask for donations. But if they have to pay to get in, or pay to buy anything to eat or drink while they listen to you play, then no. You can't play anything written after 1923, and the burden of proof is on you to prove that it was written before then. This is a fact. The musicians of the world better start buying up old sheet music in the second hand stores, or BMI will buy it and burn it so it can't be used for proof that songs were written before 1923. As this evidence disappears, all the musicians in the world will be stiffled forever. |
#98
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Sue you, sue me blues
Les Cargill wrote:
Ron Capik wrote: On 5/27/2011 4:41 PM, Bill Graham wrote: Scott Dorsey wrote: Bill Graham wrote: I do perform it for free. And, I don't mind paying for the sheet music, or for CD's of the music. but when the BMI police tell the Pizza store owner (or whoever) that they have to pay $1000 dollars a year because he is using their music to draw customers into his establishment and we are playing there for free, so he has little choice but to stop us, then I object to that. Then, do something about it. We're tired of hearing about it. --scott Bill, you are probably an intelligent person and even a logical person but you are doing a downright terrible job of selling your case! Now, I'm not a musician nor have I been doing any sound work for several years, so I don't have a dog in your fight. That said, it seems the charges for and enforcement of performances are seemingly both arbitrary and non-uniformly enforced. Thus: [en absurdum] can I sing in the shower ...if it can be heard in the business next door? Can I sing in public, walking down the street? Can I sing in a (public) park? Can I play my guitar in the park? How about in a parking lot? What if a friend (or friends) join(s) me? How close is my arrangement to being a derivative work, and who decides? What is the royalty value of said performance, along with why and who decides. What is the current value of the catalog from which the performance is derived? OK Bill, maybe you want to expand on some of those points. [Note: I never said nineteen-twenty-whatever ... etc.] Later... Ron Capik -- Perhaps Bill should be awarded the Grand Galactic Inquisitor Award. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGbPs5y3oz8 I wonder if, when you guys reach 65, (or 62) and start collecting Social Security, whether you will notice that the government cheats you out of the check following the month you retire. that will probably be around $1500 or more. I figure that they cheat the geezers out of over 2.5 Billion dollars a year that way. But you really aren't interested, are you? |
#99
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Sue you, sue me blues
Les Cargill wrote:
Perhaps Bill should be awarded the Grand Galactic Inquisitor Award. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGbPs5y3oz8 The sound on that cartoon clip is so distorted, I can't even understand it....... |
#100
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Sue you, sue me blues
On Fri, 27 May 2011 20:27:42 -0700, "Bill Graham"
wrote: Les Cargill wrote: Perhaps Bill should be awarded the Grand Galactic Inquisitor Award. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGbPs5y3oz8 The sound on that cartoon clip is so distorted, I can't even understand it....... It was fine for me. d |
#101
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Sue you, sue me blues
Ron Capik wrote:
On 5/27/2011 4:41 PM, Bill Graham wrote: Scott Dorsey wrote: Bill Graham wrote: I do perform it for free. And, I don't mind paying for the sheet music, or for CD's of the music. but when the BMI police tell the Pizza store owner (or whoever) that they have to pay $1000 dollars a year because he is using their music to draw customers into his establishment and we are playing there for free, so he has little choice but to stop us, then I object to that. Then, do something about it. We're tired of hearing about it. --scott Bill, you are probably an intelligent person and even a logical person but you are doing a downright terrible job of selling your case! Now, I'm not a musician nor have I been doing any sound work for several years, so I don't have a dog in your fight. That said, it seems the charges for and enforcement of performances are seemingly both arbitrary and non-uniformly enforced. Thus: [en absurdum] can I sing in the shower ...if it can be heard in the business next door? Can I sing in public, walking down the street? Can I sing in a (public) park? Can I play my guitar in the park? How about in a parking lot? What if a friend (or friends) join(s) me? How close is my arrangement to being a derivative work, and who decides? What is the royalty value of said performance, along with why and who decides. What is the current value of the catalog from which the performance is derived? OK Bill, maybe you want to expand on some of those points. [Note: I never said nineteen-twenty-whatever ... etc.] Later... Ron Capik -- Perhaps Bill should be awarded the Grand Galactic Inquisitor Award. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGbPs5y3oz8 -- Les Cargill |
#102
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Sue you, sue me blues
Bill Graham wrote:
Scott Dorsey wrote: Bill Graham wrote: No. YOU are tired of hearing about it. I was answering others who are still talking about it. When they stop, then I will stop. Until then, I am free to answer any and all comments about it, regardless of how tired you are. So, you want to keep talking about it, but you don't want to do anything about it? This is what we mean by "whining." --scott Beats what you do.... You have no ****ing idea what Scott does. None at all. Hint: it includes engineering that is out of your league. In more than one area. Which is absolutely NOTHING! At least I voice a complaint. You whine your ass off probably because you can't get your head out of it. Scott understands the issues and the players. He knows the facts of the matter of which you ignorantly whine. At least you whine. I'll give you that. I'm starting to think the pizza joint uses the lack of a license to keep you from driving away the customers. If you play like you think the music would suck so badly you'd clear the restaurant in a flash. -- shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpqXcV9DYAc http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShaidri |
#103
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Sue you, sue me blues
Bill Graham wrote:
Les Cargill wrote: Ron Capik wrote: On 5/27/2011 4:41 PM, Bill Graham wrote: Scott Dorsey wrote: Bill Graham wrote: I do perform it for free. And, I don't mind paying for the sheet music, or for CD's of the music. but when the BMI police tell the Pizza store owner (or whoever) that they have to pay $1000 dollars a year because he is using their music to draw customers into his establishment and we are playing there for free, so he has little choice but to stop us, then I object to that. Then, do something about it. We're tired of hearing about it. --scott Bill, you are probably an intelligent person and even a logical person but you are doing a downright terrible job of selling your case! Now, I'm not a musician nor have I been doing any sound work for several years, so I don't have a dog in your fight. That said, it seems the charges for and enforcement of performances are seemingly both arbitrary and non-uniformly enforced. Thus: [en absurdum] can I sing in the shower ...if it can be heard in the business next door? Can I sing in public, walking down the street? Can I sing in a (public) park? Can I play my guitar in the park? How about in a parking lot? What if a friend (or friends) join(s) me? How close is my arrangement to being a derivative work, and who decides? What is the royalty value of said performance, along with why and who decides. What is the current value of the catalog from which the performance is derived? OK Bill, maybe you want to expand on some of those points. [Note: I never said nineteen-twenty-whatever ... etc.] Later... Ron Capik -- Perhaps Bill should be awarded the Grand Galactic Inquisitor Award. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGbPs5y3oz8 I wonder if, when you guys reach 65, (or 62) and start collecting Social Security, whether you will notice that the government cheats you out of the check following the month you retire. that will probably be around $1500 or more. I figure that they cheat the geezers out of over 2.5 Billion dollars a year that way. But you really aren't interested, are you? I'll be 67 in the fall. You're a ****ing idiot. -- shut up and play your guitar * http://hankalrich.com/ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpqXcV9DYAc http://www.sonicbids.com/HankandShaidri |
#104
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Sue you, sue me blues
Scott Dorsey writes:
snip But you're totally ignorant of the facts. First you're blaming BMI, now you're blaming the government. But you aren't willing to actually talk to any of the people involved, for fear you might be wrong. YOu're right on that one Scott. Bill, many of us here who make all or part of our living in the business have been trying to help you out here, but you keep running around in the same stupid circle. DOn't hit your reply button just yet, and pay close attention please. Haven't you ever wondered why when you call one of those places and they put you on hold you get music you don't recognize between the little canned announcements exhorting you to check out their special on tires or that you've moved up to caller number 4? That's because the folks whom the rights owners have asked to be their agents are aggressive about collecting what is due the rights owners. I've composed music and done the voices for music on hold systems over the years. Everybody pays for rights. If the concourse at the airport has Muzak (tm) or any other canned music service, then part of their fees for that service goes to Ascap or BMI. Places that rent jukeboxes also can have their fees folded in with the juke box rental, so long as they don't host live music or have any other source of music than the box. the rights owners, many who are just workin' folks like you were back in the day are agressive about collecting what's due them, and you would be too I'm sure. THere are ways to solve the problem, if you or the pizza parlor guy are interested. The copyright laws of course are the balewick of government, but whatever those laws are rights owners must depend on agencies such as ascap and bmi to collect for them. oTherwise they'd collect nothing at all, but I guess your libertarian principles say it's okay to steal intellectual property. it figures from waht I've seen of you here Bill. You've told many songwriters and those of us who earn our daily bread thanks to songwriters that you think you ought to be able to blatantly rip them off. YEt you wonder why you don't get any respect here. Richard -- | Remove .my.foot for email | via Waldo's Place USA Fidonet-Internet Gateway Site | Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his own. |
#105
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Sue you, sue me blues
Bill Graham wrote:
Beats what you do.... Which is absolutely NOTHING! At least I voice a complaint. I've listed what you can do. It begins with calling the store owner and then talking to BMI. It will take an afternoon of work and then you'll be able to play. But you don't actually want to play, you'd rather whine and beat your fists on the floor about how big bad government is out to get you. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#106
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Sue you, sue me blues
Bill Graham wrote:
How the hell do you know who I have talked to? I talk to these people all the time. And what was the name of the rep they talked to? And what precisely did the rep say? Hint: what the rep said was not what they think. Also, I have read the copyright laws. Its you who are wrong. You can't perform any songs written after 1923, in any place that takes in any money, and the burden of proof is on you to prove that anything you perform was written before then. That is a fact. Sure you can, you just need permission from the rights holder, which is cheap and easy to get. The purpose of BMI is to make it easier to get. If you'd rather contact them directly, that's fine too. The rule is: you need permission to use copyrighted material. This is not some huge barrier like you seem to think. They could legally bust us for playing dances at the local senior center because they have a little store there that sells coffee and cookies. Its you that are turning your back on an injustice. Wake up and read the facts. They can bust you if you don't get permission. So get it. You do a web search, you write a letter, you get a letter back. Or you pay a performance fee to BMI or Ascap which will amount to a couple bucks; usually when it's that little money they'll just hand you a contract for free. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#107
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Sue you, sue me blues
Scott Dorsey wrote:
Bill Graham wrote: Beats what you do.... Which is absolutely NOTHING! At least I voice a complaint. I've listed what you can do. It begins with calling the store owner and then talking to BMI. It will take an afternoon of work and then you'll be able to play. But you don't actually want to play, you'd rather whine and beat your fists on the floor about how big bad government is out to get you. --scott I didn't play in the dixieland band at the Pizza joint. My friend Blake did. I play at the two senior centers. We play dance music from the 20's thru 60's. They sell cookies and coffee at one of the centers, so its only a question of time before the BMI brownshirts drag us, kicking and screaming, off to the concentration camp...... |
#108
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Sue you, sue me blues
Scott Dorsey wrote:
Bill Graham wrote: How the hell do you know who I have talked to? I talk to these people all the time. And what was the name of the rep they talked to? And what precisely did the rep say? Hint: what the rep said was not what they think. Also, I have read the copyright laws. Its you who are wrong. You can't perform any songs written after 1923, in any place that takes in any money, and the burden of proof is on you to prove that anything you perform was written before then. That is a fact. Sure you can, you just need permission from the rights holder, which is cheap and easy to get. The purpose of BMI is to make it easier to get. If you'd rather contact them directly, that's fine too. The rule is: you need permission to use copyrighted material. This is not some huge barrier like you seem to think. They could legally bust us for playing dances at the local senior center because they have a little store there that sells coffee and cookies. Its you that are turning your back on an injustice. Wake up and read the facts. They can bust you if you don't get permission. So get it. You do a web search, you write a letter, you get a letter back. Or you pay a performance fee to BMI or Ascap which will amount to a couple bucks; usually when it's that little money they'll just hand you a contract for free. --scott It's the general principal that I am objecting to. It inhibits my sense of freedom to sing/play the songs of my youth. I bought the records and saw the shows on Broadway (I was born and raised in NYC) many years ago. The writers/composers and their producers have already gotten their fee from me. Now, I expect to be left alone to play what I please. I buy sheet music. It is frequently in the wrong key for our band. (we play in concert Eb, Bb, F, G, & C. If I input it into my computer after I buy it, so I can change the key, I am breaking the copyright laws! This is another stupidity in the law. (Which I am sure you will jump to defend) |
#109
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Sue you, sue me blues
On May 28, 9:46*pm, "Little Willie" crapped:
Scott Dorsey wrote: Bill Graham wrote: How the hell do you know who I have talked to? I talk to these people all the time. And what was the name of the rep they talked to? *And what precisely did the rep say? *Hint: what the rep said was not what they think. Also, I have read the copyright laws. Its you who are wrong. You can't perform any songs written after 1923, in any place that takes in any money, and the burden of proof is on you to prove that anything you perform was written before then. That is a fact. Sure you can, you just need permission from the rights holder, which is cheap and easy to get. *The purpose of BMI is to make it easier to get. If you'd rather contact them directly, that's fine too. The rule is: you need permission to use copyrighted material. *This is not some huge barrier like you seem to think. They could legally bust us for playing dances at the local senior center because they have a little store there that sells coffee and cookies. *Its you that are turning your back on an injustice. Wake up and read the facts. They can bust you if you don't get permission. *So get it. *You do a web search, you write a letter, you get a letter back. *Or you pay a performance fee to BMI or Ascap which will amount to a couple bucks; usually when it's that little money they'll just hand you a contract for free. --scott It's the general principal that I am objecting to. It inhibits my sense of freedom to sing/play the songs of my youth. I bought the records and saw the shows on Broadway (I was born and raised in NYC) many years ago. The writers/composers and their producers have already gotten their fee from me. Now, I expect to be left alone to play what I please. I buy sheet music. It is frequently in the wrong key for our band. (we play in concert Eb, Bb, F, G, & C. If I input it into my computer after I buy it, so I can change the key, I am breaking the copyright laws! This is another stupidity in the law. (Which I am sure you will jump to defend) It's hard to believe so much ****e could come out of one dog! When you bought the sheet music, you didn't pay the perfomance fee. You can pretend you did. You can make up any fantasy world you like. Nobody else, especially songwriters, has to live in your fantasy world. Nobody has to abide by the rules that come out of your asshole. You whine a lot, but so much of what you're whining about is simply bull**** that you made up. If you could just get yourself off Wille Bizarro World, you might be happier. Most of what you're whining and crying about would go away if you'd come back to the real world. But then, whining and throwing temper tantrums is all you're good for. Lazy worthless leech, wanting other people's work to be handed to you for free, just because you're much of a moronic asshole. Curl up and die, Little Willie. |
#110
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Sue you, sue me blues
On May 28, 9:32*pm, "Little Willie" blurted:
question of time before the BMI brownshirts drag us, kicking and screaming, off to the concentration camp...... Godwin, meet Little Willie Numpty, the whining crybaby. Kicking and screaming seems to be what he lives for.. |
#111
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Sue you, sue me blues
Bill, the reason no one here can further work with you on this is
simply that you have 75% of your "facts" wrong, so it's a dead end. The pizza guy is lying to your friend, or he is being misunderstood. Your friend is giving you way wrong information regarding the way BMI works, or maybe he is giving you a good explanation and you're not accepting the info properly. Whatever the reason, until you stop insisting that 2 + 2 = 5 and that the moon is made of green cheese not only will you get no help here but no one will take you seriously. And where has Arny disappeared to? : ) I was looking forward to a Behringer/Peavey thread! |
#112
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Sue you, sue me blues
vdubreeze wrote:
Bill, the reason no one here can further work with you on this is simply that you have 75% of your "facts" wrong, so it's a dead end. The pizza guy is lying to your friend, or he is being misunderstood. Your friend is giving you way wrong information regarding the way BMI works, or maybe he is giving you a good explanation and you're not accepting the info properly. Whatever the reason, until you stop insisting that 2 + 2 = 5 and that the moon is made of green cheese not only will you get no help here but no one will take you seriously. Perhaps so. Here is a URL of some interesting music copyright legal cases. They neither reinforce my perspective nor yours, but they illustrate some of the nuances in the law: http://www.rbs2.com/copyrm.pdf |
#113
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Sue you, sue me blues
On May 29, 6:40*pm, "Bill Graham" wrote:
vdubreeze wrote: Bill, the reason no one here can further work with you on this is simply that you have 75% of your "facts" wrong, so it's a dead end. The pizza guy is lying to your friend, or he is being misunderstood. Your friend is giving you way wrong information regarding the way BMI works, or maybe he is giving you a good explanation and you're not accepting the info properly. *Whatever the reason, until you stop insisting that 2 + 2 = 5 and that the moon is made of green cheese not only will you get no help here but no one will take you seriously. Perhaps so. Here is a URL of some interesting music copyright legal cases.. They neither reinforce my perspective nor yours, You should read the article more carefully. It clearly reinforces the perspectivse of vdubreeze, and everyone else who has stated that you have your facts wrong. There are numerous statements in the article that directly contradict your hallucinations and bizarre fake copyright information. For instance, the duration of copyrights, the role of BMI, and whether purchase of the sheet music entitles you to perform a copyrighted work for the customers at a commercial establishment. For starters. You should read and understand this article. It would be a good first step at correcting your gross misunderstanding of copyrights and performance rights. But somehow I suspect that you'll just keep kicking and screaming, because you obviously prefer whining to understanding and resolving the issues about which you whine. |
#114
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Sue you, sue me blues
On 5/29/2011 7:31 PM, timewarp2008 wrote:
On May 29, 6:40 pm, "Bill wrote: vdubreeze wrote: Bill, the reason no one here can further work with you on this is simply that you have 75% of your "facts" wrong, so it's a dead end. The pizza guy is lying to your friend, or he is being misunderstood. Your friend is giving you way wrong information regarding the way BMI works, or maybe he is giving you a good explanation and you're not accepting the info properly. Whatever the reason, until you stop insisting that 2 + 2 = 5 and that the moon is made of green cheese not only will you get no help here but no one will take you seriously. Perhaps so. Here is a URL of some interesting music copyright legal cases. They neither reinforce my perspective nor yours, You should read the article more carefully. It clearly reinforces the perspectivse of vdubreeze, and everyone else who has stated that you have your facts wrong. There are numerous statements in the article that directly contradict your hallucinations and bizarre fake copyright information. For instance, the duration of copyrights, the role of BMI, and whether purchase of the sheet music entitles you to perform a copyrighted work for the customers at a commercial establishment. For starters. You should read and understand this article. It would be a good first step at correcting your gross misunderstanding of copyrights and performance rights. But somehow I suspect that you'll just keep kicking and screaming, because you obviously prefer whining to understanding and resolving the issues about which you whine. I await Mr. Graham quoting Dickens per; Mr. Bumble: "If the law supposes that, then the law is a ass, a idiot! [...]" == It seems that international law does complicate matters in that the US government has been served notice of violation of the Berne Convention because of the *Fairness in Music Licensing Act of 1998* allowing some "businesses" to play the radio without the need for a license. [Yes, over simplified.] == The law always lags cultural and technological advancements. Value of and compensation for intellectual property in arts and entertainment is one heck of a complex mess. == ....enough said, for now. Later... Ron Capik -- |
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