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#41
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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digitalizing vinyl records
"Serge Auckland" wrote in message news "Arny Krueger" wrote in message ... "Serge Auckland" wrote in message ... however, my own attempts to get a USB sound card that was any good doesn't bode well. Strange, I find many good ones. I tried several, from Alesis and others, and they wouldn't pass a back-to-back test with RMAA. Strange, I find many good ones. In each case (I tried three different ones) they distorted either on output when the output was at 0dBFS That's what digital does. it clips hard for sure at 0 dB FS or in the real world, just a tad below that. (one even distorted at -2dBFS) Now that is uncalled for. Not good gear. I can see maybe -1 dB FS, ut -2 is IMO too sleazy. or on the inputs when the level went up above about 0dBu. Most consumer audio interfaces are designed for FS = 1 volt rms. If you want to go higher, you may have to use an external analog attenuator. Any sound card that clips hard at 0dBFS is, in my view, broken. 0dBFS should be passed totally clean, given that so many CDs now are mastered right up to 0dBFS, playing one of these CDs through the sound card will make an already poor CD sound worse, so no, in my real world, Digital stuff is totally good to 0dBFS, not just to -1dB (or even -0.1dBFS). My now 10 year old Digigram card is, so why is modern stuff worse? As to levels, I should have made clear I require balanced analogue ins and outs and digital I/O as well, although in this case, unbalanced S-PDIF is fine, I don't need balanced AES-EBU. Ideally, I'd like the analogue ins and outs to provide EBU recommended levels of +18dBu for 0dBFS, but I'd be satisfied with +8dBu. Again, my 10 year old card does +10dBu in and out, so why not something modern? Plenty do. Keep looking. As for 0dB FS, most cards/boxes *output* that level just fine, so no problem with playing clipped CD's. And all the good ones I have clip just as you would expect when hit with an input signal which equates to that level. Cheap ones as low as 1V, good ones as high as +20dBu. Attenuators are not dear to make however. Normal practice is to *avoid* input levels which clip however, and 100dB+ DNR is usually enough for me to do that. What *you* do in the mastering process is up to you. MrT. |
#42
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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digitalizing vinyl records
"geoff" wrote in message ... No it doesn't - the RIAA curve is a factnor of the LP. Nothing to do with the type of cartridge. Not so, a ceramic, or crystal cartridge, (and some of the new el-cheapo USB turntables use cheap ceramic cartridges once more) do NOT require the same EQ as for magnetic types. Do they have a built in RIAA curve or something ?!! You could say that, an inherent response which *approximates* the RIAA curve without adding further EQ. Good enough for the market this junk is aimed at. MrT. |
#43
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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digitalizing vinyl records
"geoff" wrote in message ... Serge Auckland wrote: Any sound card that clips hard at 0dBFS is, in my view, broken. 0dBFS should be passed totally clean, given that so many CDs now are mastered right up to 0dBFS, playing one of these CDs through the sound card will make an already poor CD sound worse, so no, in my real world, Digital stuff is totally good to 0dBFS, not just to -1dB (or even -0.1dBFS). My now 10 year old Digigram card is, so why is modern stuff worse? Um, how can you possibly ever go over 0dBFS ? Do some homework as understand just how silly that makes you look ! geoff Firstly, YOU do your homework, the ANALOGUE output can go over the 0dBFS level under certain circumstances. Look up Jim Lesurf's work on the subject. Secondly, the ANALOGUE output has to be totally clean when playing a 0dBFS DIGITAL signal, not just one that goes to -1dBFS or even -0.1dBFS. Amateurs....shees..... S. -- http://audiopages.googlepages.com |
#44
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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digitalizing vinyl records
"Serge Auckland" wrote in message ... "geoff" wrote in message Um, how can you possibly ever go over 0dBFS ? Do some homework as understand just how silly that makes you look ! geoff Firstly, YOU do your homework, the ANALOGUE output can go over the 0dBFS level under certain circumstances. Look up Jim Lesurf's work on the subject. 0dBFS relates to the digital signal only, IF the analog output goes over the corresponding voltage level set by that card for a 0dBFS signal applied to it, then its FAULTY. Secondly, the ANALOGUE output has to be totally clean when playing a 0dBFS DIGITAL signal, not just one that goes to -1dBFS or even -0.1dBFS. Absolutely, and even the $20 soundcards do that quite adequately IME. *IF* you have SPECIFIC instances where this does not happen, please let others know of the crap they should avoid!!! Otherwise move on. MrT. |
#45
Posted to rec.audio.tech
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digitalizing vinyl records
Mr.T MrT@home wrote:
"Serge Auckland" wrote in message ... "geoff" wrote in message Um, how can you possibly ever go over 0dBFS ? Do some homework as understand just how silly that makes you look ! geoff Firstly, YOU do your homework, the ANALOGUE output can go over the 0dBFS level under certain circumstances. Look up Jim Lesurf's work on the subject. 0dBFS relates to the digital signal only, IF the analog output goes over the corresponding voltage level set by that card for a 0dBFS signal applied to it, then its FAULTY. Again, look up Lesurf's or Nielsen & Lund's work, or google 'intersample peaks', about which pro recording/engineering boards comment not infrequently, I suspect there's probably a thread or two about it here. A standard ref: http://www.tcelectronic.com/media/ni...0_0dbfs_le.pdf With proper metering at the record/production end and proper D/A at the consumer end, it shouldn't happen, but apparently that's asking a lot. Perhps things are better these days than when that paper was written, I don't know. -- -S We have it in our power to begin the world over again - Thomas Paine |
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