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#1
Posted to rec.audio.car
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New Sound System in 1997 Jeep Wrangler / Sounds bad !!!!!!!!!!
Perhaps some of you experienced guys can give me some ideas as to why I am not satisfied with my updated HU and front/rear speakers in my 1997 Jeep Wrangler. My HU is the Alpine 9857. This radio is rated at 18 watts per channel, but many folks consider that a very conservative rating on this particular HU. I am not yet running an amp, although I plan to install one, probably a 4 channel amp of at least 70 watts per channel. But, I don't want to install an amp until I understand why I am not getting anywhere near "decent" sound with what I now have. Please note that I am an older gent, and I am not trying to play music for someone a mile away to enjoy. I just want a decent stereo in this particular Jeep. FRONT SPEAKERS: I purchased an adaptor so that I could replace the front 4 X 6 speakers with the Polk Audio DB5250s, which is a 5 1/4 inch speaker with a separate tweeter and crossover unit. Before choosing this speaker, I read **many** reviews that rated these speakers very very highly. Yes, the reviews pointed out that this size speaker doesn't produce HUGE bass, but of course that couldn't be expected from any speaker this size. But, every review that I read said that these speakers perform way beyond their size, and are fantastic. I also installed polyfill in the front dash, in the area above, below, behind, and all sides of these front speakers. I did this because many folks reported that this improves the bass response. RESULTS-- these speakers really seem dull, and dead. I don't know any better way to explain it. To be more specific, they seem to have **almost no** bass response. Once again, I know that they cannot have huge bass, but I have heard other speakers of this size that have three times the bass response. Equally puzzling, the tweeters themselves (separates) actually distort the music. When I say distorted, I mean fairly strong distortion, on some music passages. They don't seem to distort all the time, but they are significantly distorted. ( some users say these tweeters are a bit too "bright", and I have cut down on the treble to account for this). I have double-checked the hookup wiring, including the phasing, etc etc. As far as I can tell, I have everything right, left and right. (The two sides seem to perform the same). Now here is the most weird part........... the sound (I will review the rear speakers below) the sound is so bad.......... it actually sounds so tinny that it gives me a headache. The entire sound is so tinny and distorted-sounding, It is very very hard to explain... it just sounds BAD. REAR SPEAKERS IN ROLL BAR: I installed Polk 5 1/4 inch coaxial speakers in the rollbar. (Model MMC525s) There is rubber type material in the rollbar, so I didn't want to try to remove that to put polyfill in like I did in the front. Just like the front, there is NO bass in these speakers, and in general they sound awful. If I play at just barely a decent volume level (Not Loud) they distort terribly. OK, PLEASE NOTE: I am 100% aware that this is a JEEP, and that these are not large speakers. But, the entire sound in this Jeep with four 5 1/4 inch speakers is just rotten, to the point of giving me headaches. I can't stand to listen for more than about ten minutes. I have a 2000 Jeep Grand Cherokee with an Infinity sound system, and it sounds ten times better, seriously. I can listen to it all day. I also know that I will never get equal sound from a Jeep Wrangler, but I should be able to get **decent** sound with what I have installed, or so I thought. --------------------------------------- I guess there are several possibilities: 1. Bad HU, causing distortion in the highs and lows. 2. Bad crossovers. 3. Bad tweeters on these brand new speakers, front and rear. 4. Too much polyfill in the front, not allowing speakers to push enough air, thus restricting the bass. -------------------------------------- Can you guys give me some advice, and/or comments ? Any other possibilities other than the 4 items that I have listed above ? Yes, I know that any good speaker system will sound better with an amp. But, nearly all of the user-reviews that I have read, indicate that these speakers will do a fine job with 18 watts per channel. Also, I think that the improvement from an amp would be mainly in the bass and mids/ but not sound from the tweeters, right ? I clearly don't mind installing the amp next, but it seems crazy for me to move forward at this point until I have the basic system sounding decent. Thank you very much for any additional thoughts or ideas. I want decent, good-quality sound, that I can play medium-loud. I am an older gent, and don't listen to rap , rock, or other extremely loud music. But, I do know decent sound when I hear it, and at this point, these speakers don't even come near what I had hoped for. HELP PLEASE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! --James-- |
#2
Posted to rec.audio.car
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New Sound System in 1997 Jeep Wrangler / Sounds bad !!!!!!!!!!
I left all that intact because I was too lazy to decide what to trim...
In any case, polyfill is not an answer in itself... the trick to getting bass out of ANY speaker is that the front and back sides of the cone MUST be isolated from each other, and that means an enclosure, PERIOD. You don't note how you have the roll-bar speakers mounted - are they in boxes of any kind? Same with the dash speakers - I haven't worked on a Jeep that new, but if they're anything like the late-80s/early-90s ones, there is no enclosure of any sort behind the dash speakers; there are just cutouts in the front of the dash and the backwave can easily leak around under the dash. The problem here is the sound wave from the back of the speaker is 180 degrees out of phase with that from the front, and with lower frequencies being non-directional, the bass wave from the back of the speaker literally cancels out the bass from the front. Stuffing soft material in behind the speaker will help a bit, but not a lot - there's no substitute for a proper box. James wrote: Perhaps some of you experienced guys can give me some ideas as to why I am not satisfied with my updated HU and front/rear speakers in my 1997 Jeep Wrangler. My HU is the Alpine 9857. This radio is rated at 18 watts per channel, but many folks consider that a very conservative rating on this particular HU. I am not yet running an amp, although I plan to install one, probably a 4 channel amp of at least 70 watts per channel. But, I don't want to install an amp until I understand why I am not getting anywhere near "decent" sound with what I now have. Please note that I am an older gent, and I am not trying to play music for someone a mile away to enjoy. I just want a decent stereo in this particular Jeep. FRONT SPEAKERS: I purchased an adaptor so that I could replace the front 4 X 6 speakers with the Polk Audio DB5250s, which is a 5 1/4 inch speaker with a separate tweeter and crossover unit. Before choosing this speaker, I read **many** reviews that rated these speakers very very highly. Yes, the reviews pointed out that this size speaker doesn't produce HUGE bass, but of course that couldn't be expected from any speaker this size. But, every review that I read said that these speakers perform way beyond their size, and are fantastic. I also installed polyfill in the front dash, in the area above, below, behind, and all sides of these front speakers. I did this because many folks reported that this improves the bass response. RESULTS-- these speakers really seem dull, and dead. I don't know any better way to explain it. To be more specific, they seem to have **almost no** bass response. Once again, I know that they cannot have huge bass, but I have heard other speakers of this size that have three times the bass response. Equally puzzling, the tweeters themselves (separates) actually distort the music. When I say distorted, I mean fairly strong distortion, on some music passages. They don't seem to distort all the time, but they are significantly distorted. ( some users say these tweeters are a bit too "bright", and I have cut down on the treble to account for this). I have double-checked the hookup wiring, including the phasing, etc etc. As far as I can tell, I have everything right, left and right. (The two sides seem to perform the same). Now here is the most weird part........... the sound (I will review the rear speakers below) the sound is so bad.......... it actually sounds so tinny that it gives me a headache. The entire sound is so tinny and distorted-sounding, It is very very hard to explain... it just sounds BAD. REAR SPEAKERS IN ROLL BAR: I installed Polk 5 1/4 inch coaxial speakers in the rollbar. (Model MMC525s) There is rubber type material in the rollbar, so I didn't want to try to remove that to put polyfill in like I did in the front. Just like the front, there is NO bass in these speakers, and in general they sound awful. If I play at just barely a decent volume level (Not Loud) they distort terribly. OK, PLEASE NOTE: I am 100% aware that this is a JEEP, and that these are not large speakers. But, the entire sound in this Jeep with four 5 1/4 inch speakers is just rotten, to the point of giving me headaches. I can't stand to listen for more than about ten minutes. I have a 2000 Jeep Grand Cherokee with an Infinity sound system, and it sounds ten times better, seriously. I can listen to it all day. I also know that I will never get equal sound from a Jeep Wrangler, but I should be able to get **decent** sound with what I have installed, or so I thought. --------------------------------------- I guess there are several possibilities: 1. Bad HU, causing distortion in the highs and lows. 2. Bad crossovers. 3. Bad tweeters on these brand new speakers, front and rear. 4. Too much polyfill in the front, not allowing speakers to push enough air, thus restricting the bass. -------------------------------------- Can you guys give me some advice, and/or comments ? Any other possibilities other than the 4 items that I have listed above ? Yes, I know that any good speaker system will sound better with an amp. But, nearly all of the user-reviews that I have read, indicate that these speakers will do a fine job with 18 watts per channel. Also, I think that the improvement from an amp would be mainly in the bass and mids/ but not sound from the tweeters, right ? I clearly don't mind installing the amp next, but it seems crazy for me to move forward at this point until I have the basic system sounding decent. Thank you very much for any additional thoughts or ideas. I want decent, good-quality sound, that I can play medium-loud. I am an older gent, and don't listen to rap , rock, or other extremely loud music. But, I do know decent sound when I hear it, and at this point, these speakers don't even come near what I had hoped for. HELP PLEASE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! --James-- |
#3
Posted to rec.audio.car
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New Sound System in 1997 Jeep Wrangler / Sounds bad !!!!!!!!!!
Thank you Ender for this advice. I will check all of this out as soon as I
get a chance. This had really been a frustrating experience for me. I welcome other comments on this problem. Thanks !! James |
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