MINe 109 wrote in
:

In article ,
Rich Andrews wrote:

Here is something that says that digital music digital is helpful.


http://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/CDA/...easeDetail/0,6
375,CN
TID%253D27100%2526CTID%253D%2526CNTYP%253DNEWS%252 6VNM%253DLIVE%
2526LGFL
%253DN %2526AFLG%253DY,00.html


"MEADVILLE, PA (November 14, 2003) — The employee dissatisfaction,
burnout and rampant turnover that threaten one of America's most
stress-prone industries — long-term care — may have a solution in one
of man's oldest activities, according to a new scientific study.
Researchers have found that a specific Recreational Music-making (RMM)
program drastically reduced employee burnout and mood disturbances with
huge projected economic benefits for the long-term care industry."

"A groundbreaking study, funded by Yamaha Corporation of America with
participation by REMO and published in the Fall/Winter 2003 issue of
Advances in Mind-Body Medicine, demonstrates that a six-week program of
Recreational Music-making not only reduced burnout in long-term care
workers, but also reduced Total Mood Disturbance by 46 percent. Using
industry-wide human resources data, researchers projected that this
improvement could result in an 18.3 percent reduction in employee
turnover, which would save the average 100-bed facility more than
$89,000 a year-and the entire long-term care industry as much as $1.46
billion annually. Actual reductions in turnover at Wesbury United
Methodist Retirement Community, the center where the study took place,
exceeded the research projections."

"The study's protocol was based upon Group Empowerment
Drumming, coupled with exercises on a digital piano..."

I daresay the results don't depend on "digital music".

Stephen


Stephen,

I quite agree, but the original posting mentioned Diamond's assertion that
digital is stressful. I maintain that it does not really matter if the
source is digital or analog. Music that is pleasing and relaxing to the
listener can be effectivly reproduced no matter what the source.

r


--
Nothing beats the bandwidth of a station wagon filled with DLT tapes.

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Rich Andrews" wrote in message
.44...
"Arny Krueger" wrote in news:MLCdnUuIq5Dwso7dRVn-
:

"browntimdc" wrote in message

"cwvalle" wrote in news:vN4Qb.9898$U_3.7365
@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com:

http://www.diamondcenter.net/digitalstress.html

Digital music is bad for you
analog is good

Here is scientific proof


Poppycock by a hack peddling nutritional supplements.

If this is the same Dr. Diamond as was badmouthing Digital back in
1980
and
1985, and it appears that it is, we're basically looking at some
very
old
news.

JAES, Vol 28, p, 546, 1980 July/Aug and JAES,Vol.33, No.12, 1985
December

Dr. Diamond's claims fail the independent duplication test. Other
independent experimenters fail to duplicate his results, even when
instructed in the use of his procedures by Dr. Diamond.




Diamond is a well known quack.

"... he now practices as a Holistic Consultant and blends his
experience in medicine, psychiatry, complementary medicine, the
humanities, holism, applied kinesiology, acupuncture theory,
spirituality and the arts, especially music, to help people overcome
problems relating to body, mind and spirit. "

The guy is scary.

Nothing can be more scary to you
than the concept that music soothes stress
and makes one feel better.

Of course that's another one of your self-righteous crazy lies, Yustabe.

The problem with Dr. Diamond's silly claims and pseudoscience is not the
idea that music soothes stress and makes one feel better, but rather that
good quality digitization somehow reduces the ability of music to soothe
stress and make one feel better.

If anything, removing the rumble, tics, and audible distortion in inherent
in vinyl, and the audible coloration, hiss, distortion and hum that often
accompany the use of vacuum tubes, greatly enhances the ability of music
to
soothe stress
and make one feel better.


No, but I am sure that reading spec sheets soothes your stress
and makes you feel better.




----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

"Rich Andrews" wrote in message
.44...

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in
:


"Rich Andrews" wrote in message
.44...
"Arny Krueger" wrote in news:MLCdnUuIq5Dwso7dRVn-
:

"browntimdc" wrote in message

"cwvalle" wrote in news:vN4Qb.9898$U_3.7365
@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com:

http://www.diamondcenter.net/digitalstress.html

Digital music is bad for you
analog is good

Here is scientific proof


Poppycock by a hack peddling nutritional supplements.

If this is the same Dr. Diamond as was badmouthing Digital back in
1980
and
1985, and it appears that it is, we're basically looking at some very
old
news.

JAES, Vol 28, p, 546, 1980 July/Aug and JAES,Vol.33, No.12, 1985
December

Dr. Diamond's claims fail the independent duplication test. Other
independent experimenters fail to duplicate his results, even when
instructed in the use of his procedures by Dr. Diamond.




Diamond is a well known quack.

"... he now practices as a Holistic Consultant and blends his
experience
in medicine, psychiatry, complementary medicine, the humanities,
holism,
applied kinesiology, acupuncture theory, spirituality and the arts,
especially music, to help people overcome problems relating to body,
mind
and spirit. "

The guy is scary.


Nothing can be more scary to you
than the concept that music soothes stress
and makes one feel better.



I think you misunderstand my position.

Here is something that says that digital music digital is helpful.


http://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/CDA/...53 DY,00.html


"MEADVILLE, PA (November 14, 2003) - The employee dissatisfaction,
burnout and rampant turnover that threaten one of America's most
stress-prone
industries - long-term care - may have a solution in one of man's oldest
activities, according to a new scientific study. Researchers have found
that a specific Recreational Music-making (RMM) program drastically
reduced employee burnout and mood disturbances with huge projected
economic
benefits for the long-term care industry."

"A groundbreaking study, funded by Yamaha Corporation of America with
participation by REMO and published in the Fall/Winter 2003 issue of
Advances in Mind-Body Medicine, demonstrates that a six-week program of
Recreational Music-making not only reduced burnout in long-term care
workers,
but also reduced Total Mood Disturbance by 46 percent. Using industry-wide
human resources data, researchers projected that this improvement could
result in an 18.3 percent reduction in employee turnover, which would
save the average 100-bed facility more than $89,000 a year-and the entire
long-term care industry as much as $1.46 billion annually. Actual
reductions
in turnover at Wesbury United Methodist Retirement Community, the center
where the study took place, exceeded the research projections."

"The study's protocol was based upon Group Empowerment
Drumming, coupled with exercises on a digital piano..."


Are you saying that somehow it was more effective than using an acooustic
piano?




----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"S888Wheel" wrote in message


Any time you want to compare hearing acuity Arny say the word. Every
time I make the challenge you make excuses.

Tell me what you can do in terms of resolving small differences in DBTs at
www.pcabx.com . More specifically,
http://www.pcabx.com/training/index.htm
.

On his PC! SFTRLATITST




----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

In article ,
Rich Andrews wrote:

I quite agree, but the original posting mentioned Diamond's assertion that
digital is stressful. I maintain that it does not really matter if the
source is digital or analog. Music that is pleasing and relaxing to the
listener can be effectivly reproduced no matter what the source.

I appreciate that and agree for the most part, but your example is
stress release from performing music, not from listening to recordings.

Stephen

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"S888Wheel" wrote in message


Any time you want to compare hearing acuity Arny say the word. Every
time I make the challenge you make excuses.

Tell me what you can do in terms of resolving small differences in
DBTs at www.pcabx.com . More specifically,
http://www.pcabx.com/training/index.htm
.

On his PC! SFTRLATITST

Yes Yustabe, PCs are horrible things, and nothing good ever happens on one.
I expect you to immediately trash your PC and never touch one again in your
life.

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"S888Wheel" wrote in message


Any time you want to compare hearing acuity Arny say the word. Every
time I make the challenge you make excuses.

Tell me what you can do in terms of resolving small differences in
DBTs at www.pcabx.com . More specifically,
http://www.pcabx.com/training/index.htm
.

On his PC! SFTRLATITST

Yes Yustabe, PCs are horrible things, and nothing good ever happens on
one.
I expect you to immediately trash your PC and never touch one again in
your
life.


Well, there are certain things it does well, and certain things it does
not do well. On the negative side, it doesn't cook, mop floors,
do windows (with a small 'w'!), or produce reasonably good
sounding music.




----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"S888Wheel" wrote in message


Any time you want to compare hearing acuity Arny say the word.
Every time I make the challenge you make excuses.

Tell me what you can do in terms of resolving small differences in
DBTs at www.pcabx.com . More specifically,
http://www.pcabx.com/training/index.htm
.

On his PC! SFTRLATITST

Yes Yustabe, PCs are horrible things, and nothing good ever happens on
one.
I expect you to immediately trash your PC and never touch one again in
your
life.

Well, there are certain things it does well, and certain things it
does not do well.

In the case of your PC Yustabe, operator failure is a major limitation of
its effectiveness.

On the negative side, it doesn't cook, mop floors,
do windows (with a small 'w'!), or produce reasonably good
sounding music.

AFAIK Yustabe, neither does your noise- and distortion-enhanced stereo.

"Arny Krueger" said:

Given that I frequently find SS power amps with all forms of noise including
hum 110 dB down, this seems like it could be a problem. Hum and noise in
power amps is more likely to be a problem than with say, a preamp, because
there is no volume control following the noise source in the power amp.
Therefore -80dB hum and noise referred to full output (say 20 dBW) is
effectively only -60 dB down when referred to a lower but common listening
level of 1 watt.

I forgot to mention that the -80 dB figure is in reference to 1 watt,
as is common practice.
Actually, it's even lower, but I'm not able to measure any better at
this moment.

Because SS rectifiers and regulators are so common, so effective and so
cheap, it's hard to explain why a quality tubed amp wouldn't use DC filament
supplies on all tubes that pass audio. DC operation also extends the useful
life of tubes, as does effective voltage regulation.

Alas my friend, I have to correct you here.
AC on the heaters lengthens tube life.
Because of an effect called filament emission, the "lower" end of the
filament emits more electrons that are attracted by the inside of the
cathode itself, which is positive as seen from the filament.
The "higher" end (positive heater voltage) will of course also emit
electrons, but due to the higher heater vs. cathode potential, far
less electrons are attracted by the cathode.
This will cause the filament to generate an electric field which will
vary from lower to higher potential, thereby inflicting the
productivity of the cathode itself.
This will cause a certain part of the cathode to emit more, causing
hotspots and thus deactivating parts of the cathode.
This may cause "cathode fatigue" (can't think of a better term in
English), seen as a virtual RC circuit in series with the cathode, as
well as a certain noise.
In the end, parts of the cathode may let loose from the cathode base,
causing the resistance between the actual cathode and the emitting
layer going to rise even more.
Parts of the emitting layer may let loose and get floating around in
the tube, are caught by the first positive charged thing nearby, which
usually is a grid (and NOT the cathode because of the electron cloud
around it which is negatively charged).
The tube may now run away thermally, rising the idle current etc.,
until the tube is exit.

AC on the filament evens out the thermal stress on the cathode, and
the tube will live longer while staying within its parameters.

Bifilar winded heaters don't change this effect, they're only useful
in redusing hum when using AC.

--
Sander deWaal
Vacuum Audio Consultancy

AFAIK Yustabe, neither does your noise- and distortion-enhanced stereo.

More sour grapes from the guy who is afraid to list his reference system.

"Sander deWaal" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" said:

Given that I frequently find SS power amps with all forms of noise
including hum 110 dB down, this seems like it could be a problem.
Hum and noise in power amps is more likely to be a problem than with
say, a preamp, because there is no volume control following the
noise source in the power amp. Therefore -80dB hum and noise
referred to full output (say 20 dBW) is effectively only -60 dB down
when referred to a lower but common listening level of 1 watt.

I forgot to mention that the -80 dB figure is in reference to 1 watt,
as is common practice.
Actually, it's even lower, but I'm not able to measure any better at
this moment.

Because SS rectifiers and regulators are so common, so effective and
so cheap, it's hard to explain why a quality tubed amp wouldn't use
DC filament supplies on all tubes that pass audio. DC operation also
extends the useful life of tubes, as does effective voltage
regulation.

Alas my friend, I have to correct you here.
AC on the heaters lengthens tube life.
Because of an effect called filament emission, the "lower" end of the
filament emits more electrons that are attracted by the inside of the
cathode itself, which is positive as seen from the filament.

Hard to explain when so many tubes in preamps and amps have grounded
cathodes. Any output tube with external bias also has a cathode that is
grounded or at a potential that is very close to ground. Other than a few
odd circuits like split load phase inverters, the cathodes of just about
every tube is within 2 volts of ground. In contrast, the filaments positive
ends are at 6 or 12 volts, the middle is at 3 or 6 volts, and only the very
bottom of the filament is at 2 volts or less. Electron flow from the cathode
to the filament is going to be negligible since the bias across the two
mostly negative.

The "higher" end (positive heater voltage) will of course also emit
electrons, but due to the higher heater vs. cathode potential, far
less electrons are attracted by the cathode.

Since the cathode is negative with respect to all or almost all of the
filament, this part of the tube is effectively reverse-biased. If it's a
serious issue, the whole filament power supply could be biased slightly
positive as there would be virtually negligible actual current flow.

This will cause the filament to generate an electric field which will
vary from lower to higher potential, thereby inflicting the
productivity of the cathode itself.

As I've shown, were this a serious issue the filament supply could be
positively biased by a few volts, making this entire circuit reverse-biased
with absolutely negligible electron flow.

This will cause a certain part of the cathode to emit more, causing
hotspots and thus deactivating parts of the cathode.

Since the actual cathode is composed of a ceramic coating over a highly
conductive little metal pipe, the potential along the cathode is highly
uniform.

This may cause "cathode fatigue" (can't think of a better term in
English), seen as a virtual RC circuit in series with the cathode, as
well as a certain noise.
In the end, parts of the cathode may let loose from the cathode base,
causing the resistance between the actual cathode and the emitting
layer going to rise even more.
Parts of the emitting layer may let loose and get floating around in
the tube, are caught by the first positive charged thing nearby, which
usually is a grid (and NOT the cathode because of the electron cloud
around it which is negatively charged).
The tube may now run away thermally, rising the idle current etc.,
until the tube is exit.

You might want to try this story on someone who doesn't know how circuits
are biased and how tubes are made.

AC on the filament evens out the thermal stress on the cathode, and
the tube will live longer while staying within its parameters.

If evening out thermal stress is a good idea, why not provide a consistent
source of heat instead of one what varies 120 times a second?

Bifilar winded heaters don't change this effect, they're only useful
in redusing hum when using AC.

That would be center-tapped windings, which may be bilifar wound or not.

"S888Wheel" wrote in message

AFAIK Yustabe, neither does your noise- and distortion-enhanced
stereo.

More sour grapes from the guy who is afraid to list his reference
system.

Nope, just bored with people who can't be bothered to search google for it,
given that I've posted its contents here so many times. Hint: the main
speakers are NHT 2.5i .

Arny Krueger wrote:

"Sander deWaal" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" said:

Given that I frequently find SS power amps with all forms of noise
including hum 110 dB down, this seems like it could be a problem.
Hum and noise in power amps is more likely to be a problem than with
say, a preamp, because there is no volume control following the
noise source in the power amp. Therefore -80dB hum and noise
referred to full output (say 20 dBW) is effectively only -60 dB down
when referred to a lower but common listening level of 1 watt.

I forgot to mention that the -80 dB figure is in reference to 1 watt,
as is common practice.
Actually, it's even lower, but I'm not able to measure any better at
this moment.

Because SS rectifiers and regulators are so common, so effective and
so cheap, it's hard to explain why a quality tubed amp wouldn't use
DC filament supplies on all tubes that pass audio. DC operation also
extends the useful life of tubes, as does effective voltage
regulation.

Alas my friend, I have to correct you here.
AC on the heaters lengthens tube life.
Because of an effect called filament emission, the "lower" end of the
filament emits more electrons that are attracted by the inside of the
cathode itself, which is positive as seen from the filament.

Hard to explain when so many tubes in preamps and amps have grounded
cathodes. Any output tube with external bias also has a cathode that is
grounded or at a potential that is very close to ground. Other than a few
odd circuits like split load phase inverters, the cathodes of just about
every tube is within 2 volts of ground. In contrast, the filaments positive
ends are at 6 or 12 volts, the middle is at 3 or 6 volts, and only the very
bottom of the filament is at 2 volts or less. Electron flow from the cathode
to the filament is going to be negligible since the bias across the two
mostly negative.

Uh, guys.... a filament is an emmitter of electrons, and so is a cathode. A
directly heated tube, like a 300B or a 2A3 has a filament, and Sander is
completely right in saying AC preserves filament life. On the other hand, with a
tube like a 12AX7 or a 6L6, the heater does nothing except for heat the cathode,
and it dosen't matter if you use AC or DC on the heater, except for the fact
that DC cuts down on noise.

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"S888Wheel" wrote in message


Any time you want to compare hearing acuity Arny say the word.
Every time I make the challenge you make excuses.

Tell me what you can do in terms of resolving small differences in
DBTs at www.pcabx.com . More specifically,
http://www.pcabx.com/training/index.htm
.

On his PC! SFTRLATITST

Yes Yustabe, PCs are horrible things, and nothing good ever happens on
one.
I expect you to immediately trash your PC and never touch one again in
your
life.

Well, there are certain things it does well, and certain things it
does not do well.

In the case of your PC Yustabe, operator failure is a major limitation of
its effectiveness.

On the negative side, it doesn't cook, mop floors,
do windows (with a small 'w'!), or produce reasonably good
sounding music.

AFAIK Yustabe, neither does your noise- and distortion-enhanced stereo.


Right, I am sure that it (Jolida cd player, Music MMF-7 turntable,
Harman Kardon Citation I preamp, Vandersteen active crossover,
pair of RadioCraftsman 500A monoblocks, modified Harman
Kardon Citation II amp, Vandersteen 4 speakers) sounds
very much like the audio from a typical pc.




----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

"Arny Krueger" said:

If evening out thermal stress is a good idea, why not provide a consistent
source of heat instead of one what varies 120 times a second?

The thermal inertion of the heater will provide a relatively constant
temperature.
Remember we were talking about power tubes here, that's also the
reason that the cathode will almost always be biased positive wrt. the
heater (when autobias is used).
I have this story on good authority from a former Philips employee,
who used to design tubes in the '40s and '50s.
The famous EF50 was one of his projects, a tube of which it is said
the British won the war with.
Also, you'll find that many people over in RATubes, who are far more
knowledgeable than me, will agree with my standpoint.
Studies, done in the '40s and '50s by Sylvania further support this
theory. I don't know if this info is online somewhere, but I have
several articles in WW and RE where this effect is described.

As far as tube life is concerned, by far the most important factor is
the lifespan of the getter.
If the getter is used up, gas is building up inside the tube and it
will stop being a linear amplifier and start acting as a switch
(compare to gas-filled thyratrons, rectifiers etc.).

Bifilar winded heaters don't change this effect, they're only useful
in redusing hum when using AC.

That would be center-tapped windings, which may be bilifar wound or not.

Aren't you talking about the transformer here?
Indeed connecting the center tap of the tranny to cathode level may
reduce the DC effect.

--
Sander deWaal
Vacuum Audio Consultancy

Max Holubitsky said:

Uh, guys.... a filament is an emmitter of electrons, and so is a cathode. A
directly heated tube, like a 300B or a 2A3 has a filament, and Sander is
completely right in saying AC preserves filament life. On the other hand, with a
tube like a 12AX7 or a 6L6, the heater does nothing except for heat the cathode,
and it dosen't matter if you use AC or DC on the heater, except for the fact
that DC cuts down on noise.

The cathode may be regarded as grounded for AC, be it directly or via
a RC network.
Therefor, AC or DC on the heater doesn't matter much in terms of hum
induction at higher signal levels.
Whenever possible, I prefer AC on heaters, especially for power tubes.

--
Sander deWaal
Vacuum Audio Consultancy

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"S888Wheel" wrote in message


Any time you want to compare hearing acuity Arny say the word.
Every time I make the challenge you make excuses.

Tell me what you can do in terms of resolving small differences
in DBTs at www.pcabx.com . More specifically,
http://www.pcabx.com/training/index.htm
.

On his PC! SFTRLATITST

Yes Yustabe, PCs are horrible things, and nothing good ever
happens on
one.
I expect you to immediately trash your PC and never touch one
again in
your
life.

Well, there are certain things it does well, and certain things it
does not do well.

In the case of your PC Yustabe, operator failure is a major
limitation of its effectiveness.

On the negative side, it doesn't cook, mop floors,
do windows (with a small 'w'!), or produce reasonably good
sounding music.

AFAIK Yustabe, neither does your noise- and distortion-enhanced
stereo.


Right, I am sure that it (Jolida cd player, Music MMF-7 turntable,
Harman Kardon Citation I preamp, Vandersteen active crossover,
pair of RadioCraftsman 500A monoblocks, modified Harman
Kardon Citation II amp, Vandersteen 4 speakers) sounds
very much like the audio from a typical pc.

Typical Yustabe deception. This isn't a typical home audio system, and my
PC's don't have the sound system of a typical PC. However, the fact that
Yustabe is only confident comparing his noise- and distortion-enhanced
stereo to a typical PC, speaks volumes.

"Sander deWaal" wrote in message

Max Holubitsky said:

Uh, guys.... a filament is an emmitter of electrons, and so is a
cathode. A directly heated tube, like a 300B or a 2A3 has a
filament, and Sander is completely right in saying AC preserves
filament life. On the other hand, with a tube like a 12AX7 or a 6L6,
the heater does nothing except for heat the cathode, and it dosen't
matter if you use AC or DC on the heater, except for the fact that
DC cuts down on noise.

The cathode may be regarded as grounded for AC, be it directly or via
a RC network.

Except that a great number of tubes have unbypassed cathode resistors. In
many cases there is no RC network, just a resistor. In other cases there is
a bypassed resistor in series with another resistor that is not bypassed.

Therefore, AC or DC on the heater doesn't matter much in terms of hum
induction at higher signal levels.

Except it does because the heater wiring is winding among the signal wiring,
and there is wiring in the tube between the pins and the cathode.

Whenever possible, I prefer AC on heaters, especially for power tubes.

Enjoy that added Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm! It gives music that "warm sound"
and reminds me of listening to The Lone Ranger on the old Detrola 5 tube AM
radio.

"Sander deWaal" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" said:

If evening out thermal stress is a good idea, why not provide a
consistent source of heat instead of one what varies 120 times a
second?

The thermal inertion of the heater will provide a relatively constant
temperature.

I thought that we were talking inertia audio hear, not some compromised
"relatively constant" system.

Remember we were talking about power tubes here, that's also the
reason that the cathode will almost always be biased positive wrt. the
heater (when autobias is used).

My comments were clearly not limited to just power tubes.

I have this story on good authority from a former Philips employee,
who used to design tubes in the '40s and '50s.

Whatever that means.

The famous EF50 was one of his projects, a tube of which it is said
the British won the war with.

I thought we were talking about perfectionist audio here, not tactical
military electronics. BTW I worked on the last generation of tactical
military electronic equipment, literally rocket science. All of the
signal-processing tubes ran on about 6 volts DC.

Also, you'll find that many people over in RATubes, who are far more
knowledgeable than me, will agree with my standpoint.

I thought we were talking about scientific truth here, not a popularity
contest.

Studies, done in the '40s and '50s by Sylvania further support this
theory. I don't know if this info is online somewhere, but I have
several articles in WW and RE where this effect is described.

It can be valid in a few cases. I listed out a large number of cases where
it can't be true.

As far as tube life is concerned, by far the most important factor is
the lifespan of the getter.

Only if the tube is leaky or has components with trapped gas in them. Many
really large tubes with very long lives have no getters at all.

If the getter is used up, gas is building up inside the tube and it
will stop being a linear amplifier and start acting as a switch
(compare to gas-filled thyratrons, rectifiers etc.).

Getters are circumventions, not solutions.

Bifilar winded heaters don't change this effect, they're only useful
in reducing hum when using AC.

That would be center-tapped windings, which may be bilifar wound or
not.

Aren't you talking about the transformer here?

Yes.

Indeed connecting the center tap of the tranny to cathode level may
reduce the DC effect.

Except that I already proved that most of the heater is already
significantly more positive than the cathode in the vast majority of audio
signal-handling circuits. The idea of the grounded center tap is to minimize
and balance the AC signal that leaks into the audio circuits. Aversion to DC
powered filaments is a carry-over from the days when it was really difficult
to convert AC to DC at low voltages and high currents. Remember copper-oxide
rectifiers? They were huge and inefficient for the application. Remember
selenium rectifiers? They were pretty large and costly for high current
applications, as well.

"Arny Krueger" emitted :

The famous EF50 was one of his projects, a tube of which it is said
the British won the war with.

I thought we were talking about perfectionist audio here, not tactical
military electronics. BTW I worked on the last generation of tactical
military electronic equipment, literally rocket science. All of the
signal-processing tubes ran on about 6 volts DC.

Also, you'll find that many people over in RATubes, who are far more
knowledgeable than me, will agree with my standpoint.

I thought we were talking about scientific truth here, not a popularity
contest.

Studies, done in the '40s and '50s by Sylvania further support this
theory. I don't know if this info is online somewhere, but I have
several articles in WW and RE where this effect is described.

It can be valid in a few cases. I listed out a large number of cases where
it can't be true.

As far as tube life is concerned, by far the most important factor is
the lifespan of the getter.

Only if the tube is leaky or has components with trapped gas in them. Many
really large tubes with very long lives have no getters at all.

If the getter is used up, gas is building up inside the tube and it
will stop being a linear amplifier and start acting as a switch
(compare to gas-filled thyratrons, rectifiers etc.).

Getters are circumventions, not solutions.

Bifilar winded heaters don't change this effect, they're only useful
in reducing hum when using AC.

That would be center-tapped windings, which may be bilifar wound or
not.

Aren't you talking about the transformer here?

Yes.

Indeed connecting the center tap of the tranny to cathode level may
reduce the DC effect.

Except that I already proved that most of the heater is already
significantly more positive than the cathode in the vast majority of audio
signal-handling circuits. The idea of the grounded center tap is to minimize
and balance the AC signal that leaks into the audio circuits. Aversion to DC
powered filaments is a carry-over from the days when it was really difficult
to convert AC to DC at low voltages and high currents. Remember copper-oxide
rectifiers? They were huge and inefficient for the application. Remember
selenium rectifiers? They were pretty large and costly for high current
applications, as well.

Ever get the feelin' you been cheated?


--
S i g n a l @ l i n e o n e . n e t

MINe 109 wrote in news:smcatut-
:

In article ,
Rich Andrews wrote:

I quite agree, but the original posting mentioned Diamond's assertion
that
digital is stressful. I maintain that it does not really matter if the
source is digital or analog. Music that is pleasing and relaxing to
the
listener can be effectivly reproduced no matter what the source.

I appreciate that and agree for the most part, but your example is
stress release from performing music, not from listening to recordings.

Stephen


Stephen,

You are correct.

I would be willing to bet that the type of music has more to do with the
relaxation factor than the fidelity.

The music on this album would stress me out after a short period of time.

http://www.towerrecords.com/product.aspx?pfid=1525251



r


--
Nothing beats the bandwidth of a station wagon filled with DLT tapes.

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in news:4015deca_1@
127.0.0.1:


"Rich Andrews" wrote in message
.44...

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in
:


"Rich Andrews" wrote in message
.44...
"Arny Krueger" wrote in news:MLCdnUuIq5Dwso7dRVn-
:

"browntimdc" wrote in message

"cwvalle" wrote in news:vN4Qb.9898$U_3.7365
@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com:

http://www.diamondcenter.net/digitalstress.html

Digital music is bad for you
analog is good

Here is scientific proof


Poppycock by a hack peddling nutritional supplements.

If this is the same Dr. Diamond as was badmouthing Digital back in
1980
and
1985, and it appears that it is, we're basically looking at some
very
old
news.

JAES, Vol 28, p, 546, 1980 July/Aug and JAES,Vol.33, No.12, 1985
December

Dr. Diamond's claims fail the independent duplication test. Other
independent experimenters fail to duplicate his results, even when
instructed in the use of his procedures by Dr. Diamond.




Diamond is a well known quack.

"... he now practices as a Holistic Consultant and blends his
experience
in medicine, psychiatry, complementary medicine, the humanities,
holism,
applied kinesiology, acupuncture theory, spirituality and the arts,
especially music, to help people overcome problems relating to body,
mind
and spirit. "

The guy is scary.


Nothing can be more scary to you
than the concept that music soothes stress
and makes one feel better.



I think you misunderstand my position.

Here is something that says that digital music digital is helpful.


http://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/CDA/...easeDetail/0,6
375,CNTID%253D27100%2526CTID%253D%2526CNTYP%253DNE WS%2526VNM%253DLIVE%
2526LGFL%253DN%2526AFLG%253DY,00.html


"MEADVILLE, PA (November 14, 2003) - The employee dissatisfaction,
burnout and rampant turnover that threaten one of America's most
stress-prone
industries - long-term care - may have a solution in one of man's
oldest
activities, according to a new scientific study. Researchers have found
that a specific Recreational Music-making (RMM) program drastically
reduced employee burnout and mood disturbances with huge projected
economic
benefits for the long-term care industry."

"A groundbreaking study, funded by Yamaha Corporation of America with
participation by REMO and published in the Fall/Winter 2003 issue of
Advances in Mind-Body Medicine, demonstrates that a six-week program of
Recreational Music-making not only reduced burnout in long-term care
workers,
but also reduced Total Mood Disturbance by 46 percent. Using industry-
wide
human resources data, researchers projected that this improvement could
result in an 18.3 percent reduction in employee turnover, which would
save the average 100-bed facility more than $89,000 a year-and the
entire
long-term care industry as much as $1.46 billion annually. Actual
reductions
in turnover at Wesbury United Methodist Retirement Community, the
center
where the study took place, exceeded the research projections."

"The study's protocol was based upon Group Empowerment
Drumming, coupled with exercises on a digital piano..."


Are you saying that somehow it was more effective than using an
acooustic
piano?




Not at all. I am saying music can be relaxing and it really does not
matter if the source is digital or not. Conversely, if digital was all
that bad and it stressed people out, the study would have failed to show
efficacy.

r



--
Nothing beats the bandwidth of a station wagon filled with DLT tapes.

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"S888Wheel" wrote in message


Any time you want to compare hearing acuity Arny say the word.
Every time I make the challenge you make excuses.

Tell me what you can do in terms of resolving small differences
in DBTs at www.pcabx.com . More specifically,
http://www.pcabx.com/training/index.htm
.

On his PC! SFTRLATITST

Yes Yustabe, PCs are horrible things, and nothing good ever
happens on
one.
I expect you to immediately trash your PC and never touch one
again in
your
life.

Well, there are certain things it does well, and certain things it
does not do well.

In the case of your PC Yustabe, operator failure is a major
limitation of its effectiveness.

On the negative side, it doesn't cook, mop floors,
do windows (with a small 'w'!), or produce reasonably good
sounding music.

AFAIK Yustabe, neither does your noise- and distortion-enhanced
stereo.


Right, I am sure that it (Jolida cd player, Music MMF-7 turntable,
Harman Kardon Citation I preamp, Vandersteen active crossover,
pair of RadioCraftsman 500A monoblocks, modified Harman
Kardon Citation II amp, Vandersteen 4 speakers) sounds
very much like the audio from a typical pc.

Typical Yustabe deception. This isn't a typical home audio system, and my
PC's don't have the sound system of a typical PC. However, the fact that
Yustabe is only confident comparing his noise- and distortion-enhanced
stereo to a typical PC, speaks volumes.


IDIOT, this conversation began by you telling Wheeler to use
his PC for a hearing test.
And, IDIOT, you brought up the comparison between
my system and a PC.




----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"S888Wheel" wrote in message


Any time you want to compare hearing acuity Arny say the word.
Every time I make the challenge you make excuses.

Tell me what you can do in terms of resolving small differences
in DBTs at www.pcabx.com . More specifically,
http://www.pcabx.com/training/index.htm
.

On his PC! SFTRLATITST

Yes Yustabe, PCs are horrible things, and nothing good ever happens
on one.
I expect you to immediately trash your PC and never touch one again
in your
life.

Well, there are certain things it does well, and certain things it
does not do well.

In the case of your PC Yustabe, operator failure is a major
limitation of its effectiveness.

On the negative side, it doesn't cook, mop floors,
do windows (with a small 'w'!), or produce reasonably good
sounding music.

AFAIK Yustabe, neither does your noise- and distortion-enhanced
stereo.

Right, I am sure that it (Jolida cd player, Music MMF-7 turntable,
Harman Kardon Citation I preamp, Vandersteen active crossover,
pair of RadioCraftsman 500A monoblocks, modified Harman
Kardon Citation II amp, Vandersteen 4 speakers) sounds
very much like the audio from a typical pc.

Typical Yustabe deception. This isn't a typical home audio system,
and my PC's don't have the sound system of a typical PC. However,
the fact that Yustabe is only confident comparing his noise- and
distortion-enhanced stereo to a typical PC, speaks volumes.


IDIOT, this conversation began by you telling Wheeler to use
his PC for a hearing test.

So you're saying that sockpuppet wheel's PC is trash? It figures, given the
mass-production cookie cutter house (to remember what you said on the topic,
Yustabe) that he lives in.

And, IDIOT, you brought up the comparison between
my system and a PC.

Well Yustabe. I guess you haven't figured out the difference between
listening to music for pleasure and hearing small differences.

It's not my fault that you and your buds have the cheap-ass PCs that you
keep complaining about. Given how smart and highly-paid you claim to be,
I'd think you could do better!

"Rich Andrews" wrote in message
.44

Not at all. I am saying music can be relaxing and it really does not
matter if the source is digital or not.

And you'd be right. We're faced with people who claim to be "music lovers"
but can't enjoy music unless it has been *enhanced* with audible amounts of
noise and distortion.

Conversely, if digital was
all that bad and it stressed people out, the study would have failed
to show efficacy.

Exactly.

Arny Krueger wrote:

"Sander deWaal" wrote in message

Max Holubitsky said:

Uh, guys.... a filament is an emmitter of electrons, and so is a
cathode. A directly heated tube, like a 300B or a 2A3 has a
filament, and Sander is completely right in saying AC preserves
filament life. On the other hand, with a tube like a 12AX7 or a 6L6,
the heater does nothing except for heat the cathode, and it dosen't
matter if you use AC or DC on the heater, except for the fact that
DC cuts down on noise.

The cathode may be regarded as grounded for AC, be it directly or via
a RC network.

Except that a great number of tubes have unbypassed cathode resistors. In
many cases there is no RC network, just a resistor. In other cases there is
a bypassed resistor in series with another resistor that is not bypassed.


The only time I've seen DC being useful on heaters, is in phono preamps, and
very sensitive applications. One neat trick I've seen used on very old circuit
diagrams, is to use the heaters of the pre-amp tubes in the cathode circuit of
the output tubes... maybe not ideal now, but even back in the old days they knew
it would help with hum reduction to have the heaters running on DC.



Therefore, AC or DC on the heater doesn't matter much in terms of hum
induction at higher signal levels.

Except it does because the heater wiring is winding among the signal wiring,
and there is wiring in the tube between the pins and the cathode.


Proper layout, and keeping the heater wiring in a twisted pair help to eliminate
this problem. In a power amplifier, it's negligible.


Whenever possible, I prefer AC on heaters, especially for power tubes.

Enjoy that added Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm! It gives music that "warm sound"
and reminds me of listening to The Lone Ranger on the old Detrola 5 tube AM
radio.

The whole point of indirectly heated tubes, is so that they may be used with AC
on the heaters... and some of them are very well designed. Some tubes have
special heaters to especially cut down on the hum, I think the 7025 is an
example.

Why don't you set up a double blind test, to see if you can tell the difference
between a Dynaco ST-70 with AC or DC on the heaters... my guess is you won't
notice a thing. If you took instruments to it, you'd find it negligible too...
in fact I bet power supply ripple will be more noticible than heater induced
hum. If on the other hand, we're talking about a 12AX7 phono stage, then by all
means, better use DC.

Arny Krueger wrote:

"Sander deWaal" wrote in message

Max Holubitsky said:

Uh, guys.... a filament is an emmitter of electrons, and so is a
cathode. A directly heated tube, like a 300B or a 2A3 has a
filament, and Sander is completely right in saying AC preserves
filament life. On the other hand, with a tube like a 12AX7 or a 6L6,
the heater does nothing except for heat the cathode, and it dosen't
matter if you use AC or DC on the heater, except for the fact that
DC cuts down on noise.

The cathode may be regarded as grounded for AC, be it directly or via
a RC network.

Except that a great number of tubes have unbypassed cathode resistors. In
many cases there is no RC network, just a resistor. In other cases there is
a bypassed resistor in series with another resistor that is not bypassed.


The only time I've seen DC being useful on heaters, is in phono preamps, and
very sensitive applications. One neat trick I've seen used on very old circuit
diagrams, is to use the heaters of the pre-amp tubes in the cathode circuit of
the output tubes... maybe not ideal now, but even back in the old days they knew
it would help with hum reduction to have the heaters running on DC.



Therefore, AC or DC on the heater doesn't matter much in terms of hum
induction at higher signal levels.

Except it does because the heater wiring is winding among the signal wiring,
and there is wiring in the tube between the pins and the cathode.


Proper layout, and keeping the heater wiring in a twisted pair help to eliminate
this problem. In a power amplifier, it's negligible.


Whenever possible, I prefer AC on heaters, especially for power tubes.

Enjoy that added Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm! It gives music that "warm sound"
and reminds me of listening to The Lone Ranger on the old Detrola 5 tube AM
radio.

The whole point of indirectly heated tubes, is so that they may be used with AC
on the heaters... and some of them are very well designed. Some tubes have
special heaters to especially cut down on the hum, I think the 7025 is an
example.

Why don't you set up a double blind test, to see if you can tell the difference
between a Dynaco ST-70 with AC or DC on the heaters... my guess is you won't
notice a thing. If you took instruments to it, you'd find it negligible too...
in fact I bet power supply ripple will be more noticible than heater induced
hum. If on the other hand, we're talking about a 12AX7 phono stage, then by all
means, better use DC.

On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 09:22:00 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"Rich Andrews" wrote in message
. 3.44

Not at all. I am saying music can be relaxing and it really does not
matter if the source is digital or not.

And you'd be right. We're faced with people who claim to be "music lovers"
but can't enjoy music unless it has been *enhanced* with audible amounts of
noise and distortion.

Conversely, if digital was
all that bad and it stressed people out, the study would have failed
to show efficacy.

Exactly.

Yes, exactly wrong. As Stephen has pointed out.

"dave weil" wrote in message

On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 09:22:00 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"Rich Andrews" wrote in message
.44

Not at all. I am saying music can be relaxing and it really does
not matter if the source is digital or not.

And you'd be right. We're faced with people who claim to be "music
lovers" but can't enjoy music unless it has been *enhanced* with
audible amounts of noise and distortion.

Conversely, if digital was
all that bad and it stressed people out, the study would have failed
to show efficacy.

Exactly.

Yes, exactly wrong. As Stephen has pointed out.

Then Stephen has posted a reply to Rich's post from 8:53 est this morning
that I haven't seen?

And you'd be right. We're faced with people who claim to be "music lovers"
but can't enjoy music unless it has been *enhanced* with audible amounts of
noise and distortion.

That's a load of crap. Maybe you can show us a quote. Bet you can't. Is it
straw man burning season already?

On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 11:09:00 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"dave weil" wrote in message

On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 09:22:00 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"Rich Andrews" wrote in message
.44

Not at all. I am saying music can be relaxing and it really does
not matter if the source is digital or not.

And you'd be right. We're faced with people who claim to be "music
lovers" but can't enjoy music unless it has been *enhanced* with
audible amounts of noise and distortion.

Conversely, if digital was
all that bad and it stressed people out, the study would have failed
to show efficacy.

Exactly.

Yes, exactly wrong. As Stephen has pointed out.

Then Stephen has posted a reply to Rich's post from 8:53 est this morning
that I haven't seen?

"MINe 109 wrote in news:smcatut-
:

In article ,
Rich Andrews wrote:

I quite agree, but the original posting mentioned Diamond's assertion that
digital is stressful. I maintain that it does not really matter if the
source is digital or analog. Music that is pleasing and relaxing to the
listener can be effectivly reproduced no matter what the source.

I appreciate that and agree for the most part, but your example is
stress release from performing music, not from listening to recordings.

Stephen


Stephen,

You are correct".

The point being that Stephen addressed the fallacy in Rich's argument
(as Rich graciously acknowledged) - that being that the study was
looking at performance as relaxation, not listening.

"S888Wheel" wrote in message


And you'd be right.


We're faced with people who claim to be "music
lovers" but can't enjoy music unless it has been *enhanced* with
audible amounts of noise and distortion.

That's a load of crap. Maybe you can show us a quote.

Sockpuppet wheel, just take a look the component list from your best home
audio system which you recently posted, for example. Or Yustabe's which he
posted some time ago.

Bet you can't.

Been there, done that.

Is it straw man burning season already?

Do you smell smoke at your house, sockpuppet wheel? That kinda comes with
the title to the land in southern California, right...

"dave weil" wrote in message

On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 11:09:00 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"dave weil" wrote in message

On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 09:22:00 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"Rich Andrews" wrote in message
.44

Not at all. I am saying music can be relaxing and it really does
not matter if the source is digital or not.

And you'd be right. We're faced with people who claim to be "music
lovers" but can't enjoy music unless it has been *enhanced* with
audible amounts of noise and distortion.

Conversely, if digital was
all that bad and it stressed people out, the study would have
failed to show efficacy.

Exactly.

Yes, exactly wrong. As Stephen has pointed out.

Then Stephen has posted a reply to Rich's post from 8:53 est this
morning that I haven't seen?

"MINe 109 wrote in news:smcatut-
:

In article ,
Rich Andrews wrote:

I quite agree, but the original posting mentioned Diamond's
assertion that digital is stressful. I maintain that it does not
really matter if the source is digital or analog. Music that is
pleasing and relaxing to the listener can be effectively reproduced
no matter what the source.

I appreciate that and agree for the most part, but your example is
stress release from performing music, not from listening to
recordings.

Stephen


Stephen,

You are correct".

The point being that Stephen addressed the fallacy in Rich's argument
(as Rich graciously acknowledged) - that being that the study was
looking at performance as relaxation, not listening.

So Weil, you're saying that people generally don't listen to the music they
perform? Might be true for the stuff you listen to, but for the rest of
us...

So you're saying that sockpuppet wheel's PC is trash? It figures, given the
mass-production cookie cutter house (to remember what you said on the topic,
Yustabe) that he lives in.

It must torment you to know I live in a house you can't afford.


It's not my fault that you and your buds have the cheap-ass PCs that you
keep complaining about. Given how smart and highly-paid you claim to be,
I'd think you could do better!

I thought your busines was assembling "cheap ass PCs" and selling them to your
church buddies. No wonder you have self esteem issues. You hate the very
product you assemble. Actually I am just starting to use this nifty Nikon
coolscan 4000 ED film scanner that arrived a few days ago. Fortunately my new
Pentium 4 PC with a gig of ram should handle the large files from the new
scanner.

I said


More sour grapes from the guy who is afraid to list his reference
system.

Arny said


Nope, just bored with people who can't be bothered to search google for it,
given that I've posted its contents here so many times. Hint: the main
speakers are NHT 2.5i .

LOL. You can't keep your lies straight in your head. Hint, when I mentioned
that I have auditioned the NHTs and found them severely lacking compared to
what I have you started talking about having some mystery speakers that nobody
else has. You claimed that the NHTs were not your reference speakers. It looks
like your class envy is not compatable with your compulsion to lie.

On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 11:59:41 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

The point being that Stephen addressed the fallacy in Rich's argument
(as Rich graciously acknowledged) - that being that the study was
looking at performance as relaxation, not listening.

So Weil, you're saying that people generally don't listen to the music they
perform? Might be true for the stuff you listen to, but for the rest of
us...

Arnold, I *know* that you don't believe that this is a factor in terms
of drawing the conclusion that Rich did. If you do, then you don't
know how to do a real study. The act of performing is what was being
studied, not the listening. You can't confuse the two objects of
study. To solely determine the effect that you are looking for in this
instance, they would have had to only measure the audience, not the
performers, because there are other variables involved regarding the
performers (performance stress and/or hormone production to give a
couple of related examples) that would skew their results.

Could they have studied listening concurrently? Of course they could
have, by studying the audience separately. But, to draw conclusions
between digital and analog, they would have had to take the additional
step of comparing the two formats.

Arny said


We're faced with people who claim to be "music
lovers" but can't enjoy music unless it has been *enhanced* with
audible amounts of noise and distortion.


I said


That's a load of crap. Maybe you can show us a quote.


Arny said


Sockpuppet wheel, just take a look the component list from your best home
audio system which you recently posted, for example. Or Yustabe's which he
posted some time ago.

Like I said you can't show a quote. Maybe you should compare the distortion
levels of my speakers to your speakers and see who is hearing more distortion
during playback. Maybe you are incapable of listening to the end result of
recording and playback and evaluating it without use of the test bench. Maybe
you just can't help hating the equipment that is beyond your budget.

I said



Bet you can't.

Arny said



Been there, done that.

Liar. Prove it. Quote someone saying they can't enjoy music unless it has been
enhanced with audible amounts of noise and distortion. You can't. "Been there
done that" is Krooglish for Arny can't back his bull**** with facts.


I said


Is it straw man burning season already?


Arny said



Do you smell smoke at your house, sockpuppet wheel? That kinda comes with
the title to the land in southern California, right..

You mean land you can't afford to buy? LOL

"S888Wheel" wrote in message

I said


More sour grapes from the guy who is afraid to list his reference
system.

Arny said


Nope, just bored with people who can't be bothered to search google
for it, given that I've posted its contents here so many times.
Hint: the main speakers are NHT 2.5i .

LOL. You can't keep your lies straight in your head. Hint, when I
mentioned that I have auditioned the NHTs and found them severely
lacking compared to what I have you started talking about having some
mystery speakers that nobody else has.

What happened sockpuppet wheel is that I tried to correct you for your
mistaken impression that if you heard a given kind of speakers in any room
and under any conditions, that was the exactly same as hearing them in all
rooms and under all conditions.

Of course, being the blinkered, uneducatable, arrogant fool that you are
well-known to be, you just didn't get it, and this is more evidence of the
same.

You claimed that the NHTs were not your reference speakers.

Clearly not the same NHTs that you heard sockpuppet wheel, and clearly not
under the same operating conditions.

It looks like your class envy is not compatible with your compulsion to
lie.

Basically sockpuppet wheel, you just said that I can't have class envy and
be a liar at the same time, because they are incompatible. I wish you'd get
your story straight, just once...

On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 12:37:25 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"S888Wheel" wrote in message

I said


More sour grapes from the guy who is afraid to list his reference
system.

Arny said


Nope, just bored with people who can't be bothered to search google
for it, given that I've posted its contents here so many times.
Hint: the main speakers are NHT 2.5i .

LOL. You can't keep your lies straight in your head. Hint, when I
mentioned that I have auditioned the NHTs and found them severely
lacking compared to what I have you started talking about having some
mystery speakers that nobody else has.

What happened sockpuppet wheel is that I tried to correct you for your
mistaken impression that if you heard a given kind of speakers in any room
and under any conditions, that was the exactly same as hearing them in all
rooms and under all conditions.

Of course, being the blinkered, uneducatable, arrogant fool that you are
well-known to be, you just didn't get it, and this is more evidence of the
same.

You claimed that the NHTs were not your reference speakers.

Clearly not the same NHTs that you heard sockpuppet wheel, and clearly not
under the same operating conditions.

Then why did *you* diss my Cornwall speakers by referring to your
listening sessions from 25 years prior, especially when not only
weren't they "under the same operating conditions", but they were even
a quite different design from mine?

Just curious.

"S888Wheel" wrote in message


So you're saying that sockpuppet wheel's PC is trash? It figures,
given the mass-production cookie cutter house (to remember what you
said on the topic, Yustabe) that he lives in.

It must torment you to know I live in a house you can't afford.

Funny, I feel no such pain.

Sockpuppet Wheel, perhaps it torments you to know that I live in a larger,
more luxurious custom-built house that is in a nicer neighborhood, near but
not on a pleasant tree-shaded boulevard with only local traffic. In contrast
you live in a small mass-produced cookie-cutter hovel sited immediately next
to a busy thoroughfare with a cement median and lots of noisy truck
traffic.

It's not my fault that you and your buds have the cheap-ass PCs that
you keep complaining about. Given how smart and highly-paid you
claim to be, I'd think you could do better!

I thought your busines was assembling "cheap ass PCs" and selling
them to your church buddies.

I have no busines. No such thing!

You seem to think many weird things, sockpuppet Wheel. I hear tell you even
think you are smart.

No wonder you have self esteem issues.

Funny, I feel no such pain.

You hate the very product you assemble.

Funny, I feel no such pain.

Actually I am just starting
to use this nifty Nikon coolscan 4000 ED film scanner that arrived a
few days ago.

The careful wording suggests that its actually not your property...

Fortunately my new Pentium 4 PC with a gig of ram
should handle the large files from the new scanner.

Fool that you are sockpuppet wheel, you seem to think that you store scanned
images in RAM. Perhaps you do. Most of
the rest of us rely on hard drives and writable optical disk for that
purpose.

I'll compare online hard drive space with you any day of the week,
sockpuppet wheel. Hint: I have a household 100BTX network with no less than
four computers permanently on it, each running something like a quarter
terabyte of hard drive space or more, some RAID, and each with at least one
optical disc recorder, CD or DVD.

When I can't be at the computer with the data I want, I just browse my
network...