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#81
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What Software for Editing Sound on PC
"The Artist" wrote in message
"Arny Krueger" emitted : Some users don't want there stereo audio editor to be a swiss army knife. You mean Audition is inferior because it does too much, too well? Jack of all trades... master of none. Just more meaningless posturing. You think a swiss army knife is better than specialized knives and tools? D'oh! Irrelevant. Anybody with a brain knows that "swiss army knife" was just a metaphor. |
#82
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What Software for Editing Sound on PC
"The Artist" wrote in message
"Arny Krueger" emitted : Put Audition and the several others at the bottom of the list to get a true reflection of the pecking order in the market place for multitrack production facilities. Prove it. I may put you straight when you talk ****, but I'm not about to regurgitate years of experience to "prove" what I'm saying. Do your own homework. In short, you were just posturing and have no support for your claims. That's how it always is with you, Dormer. No, the way it is with me is that if you demand proof that 2=2 you gotta do the math yourself. More senseless posturing. |
#83
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What Software for Editing Sound on PC
"Geoff Wood" -nospam wrote in message ... "Arny Krueger" emitted : BTW Powell, wanna tell me how to do 12 track multitrack recording and production with SF? Wanna tell us how to do it with MS Word ? geoff why on earth would you do that anyway there are real alternatives to recording on a computer that work a hell of a lot better |
#84
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What Software for Editing Sound on PC
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message ... What you don't seem to understand Powell is that I'm not in the business of collecting audio editors in the same sense that I collect sound cards. Don't tell me you are actually making a profit on them! ----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- |
#85
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What Software for Editing Sound on PC
"The Artist" wrote in message
news "Arny Krueger" emitted : If Vegas is a suitable solution, why are you even mentioning Audition in the same breath? Because Audition is an even better solution for me. I already have it and know how to use it effectively. Far from a normal criteria for "better solution". I didn't mention any specific criteria. Yes you did, or were the words "I already have it and know how to use it effectively." tacked on arbitrarily? blah blah blah snipped Regardless, you didn't even grasp the point - if Vegas is a viable solution to a problem then Audition is not, and visa-versa. That very bogus logic. If Vegas is a viable solution that proves zilch about whether or not Audition is viable, and vice-versa. Both products can be viable. Lack of comprehension about products in question noted.. Their capabilities lie in such different areas and they are aimed at such different markets, rarely the twain shall meet. You've made my point. Vegas is primarily video editing software that oh, by the way does multitrack audio. You don't have a clue what you're talking about. Vegas is the integration of two high end products - "Vegas Audio" and "Vegas Video". I was simply trying to justify your claim that they are aimed at such different markets, rarely the twain shall meet. If we're really comparing Vegas Audio with Audition, then your claim that they are aimed at such different markets, rarely the twain shall meet can be simply dismissed on the grounds that it is ludicrous. |
#86
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What Software for Editing Sound on PC
"The Artist" wrote in message
"Arny Krueger" emitted : Put Audition and the several others at the bottom of the list to get a true reflection of the pecking order in the market place for multitrack production facilities. Prove it. I may put you straight when you talk ****, but I'm not about to regurgitate years of experience to "prove" what I'm saying. Do your own homework. In short, you were just posturing and have no support for your claims. That's how it always is with you, Dormer. No, the way it is with me is that if you demand proof that 2=2 you gotta do the math yourself. More senseless posturing. More empty words from the liars liar. I guess you've run out of postures, Dormer. |
#87
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What Software for Editing Sound on PC
"The Artist" wrote in message
"Arny Krueger" emitted : It's not like you make an income from audio production, after all. Ouch!! Not at all. Yustabe has you bang-to-rights. Not at all. You ARE a robot! You are obviously running out of steam, Dormer. Asking you for facts always seems to do that to you. |
#88
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What Software for Editing Sound on PC
"The Artist" wrote in message
"Arny Krueger" emitted : . I'm done with you for today, please continue arguing with yourself :-) No guts, no glory. |
#89
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What Software for Editing Sound on PC
Arny Krueger wrote:
Que ? Check out the list you deleted. I'm just wondering which product you are referring to as discontinued. geoff |
#90
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What Software for Editing Sound on PC
The Artist wrote:
It comes with practice. Here are some practical things you can do to optimize your signal and "learn" your ears : Watch your signal in a real time FFT application - Also previewing while tweaking he EQ in realtime is about the most valuable and practical way of gainig experience ! geoff |
#91
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What Software for Editing Sound on PC
Arny Krueger wrote:
So what are you saying, that I'm wrong about SF not doing multitracking? No. What everybody is saying is that SoundForge doesn't do multitrack recording, just like MS Word doesn't. If your app does all three, or two, great - but that doesn't mean that other apps that don't pretend or want or aspire to one day doing what your 'do all' apps does, are somehow 'less good' . geoff |
#92
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What Software for Editing Sound on PC
Arny Krueger wrote:
You've made my point. Vegas is primarily video editing software that oh, by the way does multitrack audio. But, this is a discussion about audio editors. Because SF lacks any abilities to do multitrack audio recording and editing, Sony forces their clients to use an application that primarily edits video, in order to work Vegas does multitrack recording at least as well as CE/Audition (much better in my experience). It also does video, as least as well as other premiere video apps. So does this mean CE/Aud is a 'loser' app ? . No. Video is just not in it's feature set. You are totally wrong suggesting that Vegas is a video app with a bit of multitrack audio tacked on. Hell, they even dropped the name 'Video' off it's title. It is a FULL-FUNCTION audio multitracking environment, and one of the best. Just like SF is one of the best audio editors. geoff |
#93
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What Software for Editing Sound on PC
"Geoff Wood" -nospam wrote in message
The Artist wrote: It comes with practice. Here are some practical things you can do to optimize your signal and "learn" your ears : Watch your signal in a real time FFT application - Also previewing while tweaking he EQ in real-time is about the most valuable and practical way of gaining experience ! This can be done with software as basic as Winamp. One has to be a little patient with software-based real-time eqs, in that the effects of adjustments take a few seconds to take hold. |
#94
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What Software for Editing Sound on PC
"Geoff Wood" -nospam wrote in message
Arny Krueger wrote: Que ? Check out the list you deleted. I'm just wondering which product you are referring to as discontinued. Check my post - I said "disconnected". I was referring to the tight interfacing between Audition's Edit View (which is similar to SF) and its Multitrack View (similar to Vegas Audio). I doubt that two different programs are going to work together as closely as these two components of the same program. |
#95
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What Software for Editing Sound on PC
"Geoff Wood" -nospam wrote in message
Arny Krueger wrote: You've made my point. Vegas is primarily video editing software that oh, by the way does multitrack audio. But, this is a discussion about audio editors. Because SF lacks any abilities to do multitrack audio recording and editing, Sony forces their clients to use an application that primarily edits video, in order to work Vegas does multitrack recording at least as well as CE/Audition (much better in my experience). You must have had some bad experiences with Audition! It also does video, as least as well as other premiere video apps. So does this mean CE/Aud is a 'loser' app ? . No. Video is just not in it's feature set. Well, now you're "getting it". BTW, I can't see anything significant in Vegas Audio that Audition doesn't also do well. What do you see? You are totally wrong suggesting that Vegas is a video app with a bit of multitrack audio tacked on. Hell, they even dropped the name 'Video' off it's title. It is a FULL-FUNCTION audio multitracking environment, and one of the best. I was distracted by Dormer's claim that the Vegas product he was describing was incomparable to Audition. He said that comparing the two was like comparing "chalk and cheese". No way are Vegas Audio and Audition Multitrack THAT different when it comes to editing audio. Just like SF is one of the best audio editors. As is Audition. Case in point, compare http://www.soniccontrol.com/images/p...egasaudio2.JPG to http://www.adobe.com/products/auditi...dition_nph.pdf page 4. Geoff, in the past you've lined up with Dormer's posturing and called Cool Edit a "Toy". http://www.google.com/groups?selm=lK...s02.tsnz. net But in the past you've also said that you never tried Cool Edit "seriously" http://www.google.com/groups?selm=ez...s02.tsnz. net I think you owe us happy Cool Edit users an explanation. I know that I can't reasonably expect Dormer to provide a lucid, cogent reply, but you've got a far better track record for reasonable responses. For example in a number of other posts you treated Vegas and CEP like they were peers. |
#96
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What Software for Editing Sound on PC
"Geoff Wood" -nospam wrote in message
Arny Krueger wrote: So what are you saying, that I'm wrong about SF not doing multitracking? No. What everybody is saying is that SoundForge doesn't do multitrack recording, just like MS Word doesn't. If your app does all three, or two, great - but that doesn't mean that other apps that don't pretend or want or aspire to one day doing what your 'do all' apps does, are somehow 'less good' . On the one hand Audition is roughly comparable to SF for wave editing, and on the other it is also roughly comparable to Vegas for multitracking. Given that computer software is nearly infinitely extensible, there's no sense in claiming that just because CE does multitracking, Audition is necessarily a poorer wave editor than SF. Similarly, absent any relevant facts, there's no sense in arguing that just because Audition has a powerful wave editor, it can't multitrack as well as Vegas. Absent any compelling arguments or facts, it seems like Audition roughly matches SF for wave editing and also roughly matches Vegas for multitracking. Seeing no claims from Sony about any synergy or formal interfacing between the two different products, it appears to me that having both functions in the same program is a significant plus. Putting both a powerful wave editor and powerful multitrack features in the same program provides Audition with significant amounts of synergy. You can record, play and edit the same file(s) in either view by just clicking. Timing and positioning automatically transfer between the two views. Terminology, nomenclature and tools transfer between the views. SF has arguably spent the last 4-5 years playing catch-up with Audition when it comes to wave editing. For example, Back in 1998, CEP had almost all of the powerful 32 bit, 10 MHz sample rate audio file editing power it has today. At that time SF was far more limited in terms of functions, sample rates and sample types that it could handle. SF still can't come within an order of magnitude of Audition when it comes to sample rate support. Looking through the feature list for the current release of SF, I see that it was still playing catch-up with CEP some 4-5 years later. On balance, SF has a few features that Audition now lacks, (and vice-versa) but none of them appear to be significant deal-breakers. |
#97
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What Software for Editing Sound on PC
Arny Krueger wrote:
Vegas does multitrack recording at least as well as CE/Audition (much better in my experience). You must have had some bad experiences with Audition! No, just no great ones. It also does video, as least as well as other premiere video apps. So does this mean CE/Aud is a 'loser' app ? . No. Video is just not in it's feature set. Well, now you're "getting it". BTW, I can't see anything significant in Vegas Audio that Audition doesn't also do well. What do you see? Vegas Audio no lnger exists since several version. How about 'totally intuitive faster and ppowerful user interface'. I was distracted by Dormer's claim that the Vegas product he was describing was incomparable to Audition. He said that comparing the two was like comparing "chalk and cheese". No way are Vegas Audio and Audition Multitrack THAT different when it comes to editing audio. Well they are. Just like SF is one of the best audio editors. As is Audition. Geoff, in the past you've lined up with Dormer's posturing and called Cool Edit a "Toy". No. I said in 'seemed like a toy in comparison". Overall design, look, uase, and feel. I agree that it performs editing satisfactorally. But in the past you've also said that you never tried Cool Edit "seriously" No. I have an editing app that suits me fine. CE did nothing to inspire me to change. http://www.google.com/groups?selm=ez...s02.tsnz. net I think you owe us happy Cool Edit users an explanation. I know that I can't reasonably expect Dormer to provide a lucid, cogent reply, but you've got a far better track record for reasonable responses. For example in a number of other posts you treated Vegas and CEP like they were peers. They are. I happen to think that my preference of SF and vegas suites me better. If you prefer CE/Audition fine, but don't slam other products because their feature and architecture set is different on a philsophical basis (ie very intentionally *not* totally integrated). Sorry, I don't have the time or energy to delve into Google and the web to bolster my point of view. I have other things to do... geoff |
#98
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What Software for Editing Sound on PC
"Arny Krueger" One has to be a little patient with software-based real-time eqs, in that the effects of adjustments take a few seconds to take hold. Maybe you should look at a more responsive audio appication ?!! ;-) geoff |
#99
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What Software for Editing Sound on PC
Arny Krueger wrote:
multitracking. Seeing no claims from Sony about any synergy or formal interfacing between the two different products, it appears to me that having both functions in the same program is a significant plus. How about simple right-click support on any event on the time-line to directly open, or alternatively open a copy, in SoundForge (or any editor of your choice, even Audition), as in the whole SoSoFo suite. Sounds pretty formal and interfacing to me. I have tried both (in CE days) and made my choice. It's pretty clear from what you say that you've never seriously investigated the SoSoFo products. geoff |
#100
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What Software for Editing Sound on PC
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
... "Geoff Wood" -nospam wrote in message Also previewing while tweaking he EQ in real-time is about the most valuable and practical way of gaining experience ! This can be done with software as basic as Winamp. One has to be a little patient with software-based real-time eqs, in that the effects of adjustments take a few seconds to take hold. Yes, I've been using Winamp for that purpose to speed things along. Goldwave doesn't equalize in real time. However, I haven't figured out how to convert Winamp equalizer settings to Goldwave settings. They each seem to have a different idea of what a dB is. Goldwave seems to be about twice as sensitive. I suspect that the Winamp dB values are wrong, but I'd need to do more experiments to be sure. I also don't know what sort of smoothing between frequency bands they each use, if any. I have noticed that Winamp takes a couple of seconds for changes to take effect. David |
#101
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What Software for Editing Sound on PC
"Geoff Wood" -nospam wrote in message
Arny Krueger wrote: multitracking. Seeing no claims from Sony about any synergy or formal interfacing between the two different products, it appears to me that having both functions in the same program is a significant plus. How about simple right-click support on any event on the time-line to directly open, or alternatively open a copy, in SoundForge (or any editor of your choice, even Audition), as in the whole SoSoFo suite. In Audition, when you click on a file in a view, you don't open the file in the other view and you don't open a copy. You aren't restricted to clicking on events, either, The file is already open in the other view and you go to the same place in the file that you clicked in the current view. If you mark a region in one view, that region is marked when you click into the other view. If you change the working copy of a file in edit view, it's instantly changed in multitrack view because it's the same file. The inverse isn't true, because editing in the multitrack view is non-destructive so there are no consequences to the file in edit view. The non-destructive tools in multitrack view work the same as the tools that you use in edit view because it's all the same program. When you do a mixdown in multitrack view, the cue, track and index marks from the multitrack view show up in the mixdown file. You can add or delete marks at this point, as needed, prior to burning. Sounds pretty formal and interfacing to me. It's almost no interface at all, as compared to the tight interfacing in Audition. I have tried both (in CE days) and made my choice. It's pretty clear from what you say that you've never seriously investigated the SoSoFo products. I had SF 4.5 + CD Architect. While the editing commands were similar to CEP as far as they went, at the time SF was woefully backward compared to CEP. It lacked a lot of effects that I needed. As I said before its major weaknesses at the time included no support for sample rates 48 KHz, and no support for 16 bits. That's been fixed in SF but it took years and years. I had work on the table with 24 bits 96 KHz and higher sampling and multitracking. SF had no multitrack support at all, and never will. SF still can't handle files sampled 192 KHz while Audition tops out at 10 MHz. OK, CE is like a Swiss Army knife, but all the cutting blades are very sharp, and the rest of the tools work as well as many stand-alone equivalents. Indeed some Audition features like the dithering tools. arguably work better than most special-purpose programs. Audition recently added whole category of functionality that I didn't see in the SF blurbs at all, related to sampling and looping. This was the means by which CE subsumed the MIDI features of sequencing programs like Cakewalk. |
#102
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What Software for Editing Sound on PC
"The Artist" wrote in message
"Arny Krueger" emitted : It comes with practice. Here are some practical things you can do to optimize your signal and "learn" your ears : Watch your signal in a real time FFT application - Also previewing while tweaking he EQ in real-time is about the most valuable and practical way of gaining experience ! This can be done with software as basic as Winamp. I wouldn't think Winamp is the ideal choice of software for this sort of thing. Oh come on now, what's "ideal"? I'm quite sure that being the posturmatic troll that you are Dormer, you'll change the rules until you can declare yourself the winner. One has to be a little patient with software-based real-time eqs, in that the effects of adjustments take a few seconds to take hold. Do they really? Perhaps in your world. OK, so my world moves at a higher clock speed than yours, Dormer. I can live with that! |
#103
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What Software for Editing Sound on PC
"The Artist" wrote in message
"Arny Krueger" emitted : You are totally wrong suggesting that Vegas is a video app with a bit of multitrack audio tacked on. Hell, they even dropped the name 'Video' off it's title. It is a FULL-FUNCTION audio multitracking environment, and one of the best. I was distracted by Dormer's claim that the Vegas product he was describing was incomparable to Audition. He said that comparing the two was like comparing "chalk and cheese". How about ProTools vs Audition? You have my permission to write and post a detailed comparison at your earliest convenience. |
#104
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What Software for Editing Sound on PC
"The Artist" wrote in message
"Arny Krueger" emitted : So what are you saying, that I'm wrong about SF not doing multitracking? No. What everybody is saying is that SoundForge doesn't do multitrack recording, just like MS Word doesn't. If your app does all three, or two, great - but that doesn't mean that other apps that don't pretend or want or aspire to one day doing what your 'do all' apps does, are somehow 'less good' . On the one hand Audition is roughly comparable to SF for wave editing, and on the other it is also roughly comparable to Vegas for multitracking. Seriously now. I would say that in all these discussions, not one person has suggested that Audition/Cool Edit Pro is not a good quality, accurate, bang-for-the-buck product. However, I find it ludicrous that you perpetuate the idea that the product is "roughly comparable" to Vegas. In my opinion, and having used both programs (CEP, not Audition) in a working environment, I would say that is true in only a very superficial sense. Given your behavior in the discussions of cue lists, I have zero faith in your understanding of the word "superficial" Dormer. Why don't you provide some detailed comparisons, similar to the ones I just posted about interfacing between the track editing and multitrack editing functions of CE/Audition. Comments are invited from those who have extensive experience of both programs... Which obviously does not include you Dormer, because you really have nothing germane to say. Given that computer software is nearly infinitely extensible, there's no sense in claiming that just because CE does multitracking, Audition is necessarily a poorer wave editor than SF. Similarly, absent any relevant facts, there's no sense in arguing that just because Audition has a powerful wave editor, it can't multitrack as well as Vegas. Absent any compelling arguments or facts, it seems like Audition roughly matches SF for wave editing and also roughly matches Vegas for multitracking. Seeing no claims from Sony about any synergy or formal interfacing between the two different products, it appears to me that having both functions in the same program is a significant plus. Putting both a powerful wave editor and powerful multitrack features in the same program provides Audition with significant amounts of synergy. You can record, play and edit the same file(s) in either view by just clicking. Timing and positioning automatically transfer between the two views. Terminology, nomenclature and tools transfer between the views. SF has arguably spent the last 4-5 years playing catch-up with Audition when it comes to wave editing. For example, Back in 1998, CEP had almost all of the powerful 32 bit, 10 MHz sample rate audio file editing power it has today. At that time SF was far more limited in terms of functions, sample rates and sample types that it could handle. SF still can't come within an order of magnitude of Audition when it comes to sample rate support. Looking through the feature list for the current release of SF, I see that it was still playing catch-up with CEP some 4-5 years later. On balance, SF has a few features that Audition now lacks, (and vice-versa) but none of them appear to be significant deal-breakers. I don't think it's primarily about feature sets (getting from point A to point B) it's as much about productivity and ease of use (the ride) What productivity features does Audition/CE lack? it's got shortcut keys, macros, and scripting. Nothing seems to be missing, and nothing superfluous is present, either. My gripe with the Cool Edit products has generally been the interface. If there could be a more superficial grounds to judge a product than its UI, what might it be? CE's various controls and functions look a lot like real world hardware, right down to the black face. However, as appropriate, CE includes UI elements, primarily graphic displays, that you don't find on most hardware. It just makes the UI richer and more, uhhh intuitive to work with. Even with familiarity, it doesn't feel like second-nature, unlike some other comparable products. This particularly relates to waveform manipulation, but also the visual presentation (GUI) and other quirks. Everybody with a brain knows that "intuitive" often translates "I already know how to use it". People who lack insight see the product they know best as being intuitive, and downgrade comparable products that are a little different. |
#105
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What Software for Editing Sound on PC
"David White" wrote in message
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message ... "Geoff Wood" -nospam wrote in message Also previewing while tweaking he EQ in real-time is about the most valuable and practical way of gaining experience ! This can be done with software as basic as Winamp. One has to be a little patient with software-based real-time eqs, in that the effects of adjustments take a few seconds to take hold. Yes, I've been using Winamp for that purpose to speed things along. Goldwave doesn't equalize in real time. However, I haven't figured out how to convert Winamp equalizer settings to Goldwave settings. They each seem to have a different idea of what a dB is. Goldwave seems to be about twice as sensitive. If you're talking about the Goldwave graphic equalizer, it does have slightly more dB range (24 dB) as the Winamp equalizer (20 dB). A given graphic adjustment has about 1/5 more effect, if the scales are correct. I suspect that the Winamp dB values are wrong, but I'd need to do more experiments to be sure. These sorts of effects are most quickly and accurately measured using multitones. I also don't know what sort of smoothing between frequency bands they each use, if any. The Winamp bands (11) are narrower than the Gold wave bands (7). Broader bands have more obvious effects all other things being equal, because they affect a wider range of frequencies. I have noticed that Winamp takes a couple of seconds for changes to take effect. True for all similar realtime frequency-shaping tools because of the latency that is inherent in filters what work over the full audio band. |
#106
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What Software for Editing Sound on PC
"The Artist" wrote in message
"Arny Krueger" emitted : multitracking. Seeing no claims from Sony about any synergy or formal interfacing between the two different products, it appears to me that having both functions in the same program is a significant plus. How about simple right-click support on any event on the time-line to directly open, or alternatively open a copy, in SoundForge (or any editor of your choice, even Audition), as in the whole SoSoFo suite. In Audition, when you click on a file in a view, you don't open the file in the other view and you don't open a copy. You aren't restricted to clicking on events, either, The file is already open in the other view and you go to the same place in the file that you clicked in the current view. Can you float the window or open multiple copies? Nope. Never ever saw the need for such a thing. But it might be useful. However it could be confusing and/or difficult to implement because multitrack view is non-destructive but dependent on the virtual working copy of the file, while edit view is destructive to the virtual working copy of the file. If you mark a region in one view, that region is marked when you click into the other view. Wow. It's a feature that has considerable use in multitrack editing. |
#107
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What Software for Editing Sound on PC
"The Artist" wrote in message
news "Arny Krueger" emitted : It comes with practice. Here are some practical things you can do to optimize your signal and "learn" your ears : Watch your signal in a real time FFT application - Also previewing while tweaking he EQ in real-time is about the most valuable and practical way of gaining experience ! This can be done with software as basic as Winamp. I wouldn't think Winamp is the ideal choice of software for this sort of thing. Oh come on now, what's "ideal"? God, I don't know. How about a turd in a plastic tube? One has to be a little patient with software-based real-time eqs, in that the effects of adjustments take a few seconds to take hold. Do they really? Perhaps in your world. OK, so my world moves at a higher clock speed than yours, Dormer. I can live with that! What's the point in a real-time EQ which "takes a few seconds to take hold"? I have never seen or heard of such a thing. I know of several examples. Given that they are in very common software like Winamp, I'm surprised you've never encountered this situation. I've seen it in hardware digital equalizers as well. |
#108
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What Software for Editing Sound on PC
"The Artist" wrote in message
"Arny Krueger" emitted : You are totally wrong suggesting that Vegas is a video app with a bit of multitrack audio tacked on. Hell, they even dropped the name 'Video' off it's title. It is a FULL-FUNCTION audio multitracking environment, and one of the best. I was distracted by Dormer's claim that the Vegas product he was describing was incomparable to Audition. He said that comparing the two was like comparing "chalk and cheese". How about ProTools vs Audition? You have my permission to write and post a detailed comparison at your earliest convenience. Thanks! I'm asking your opinion as to whether you think ProTools is roughly comparable to Audition, in the same way you think Vegas is roughly comparable to Audition. I' ve only studied Pro Tools in a very cursory fashion. I recognize a lot that seems to be pretty familiar. It seems to have more flash, bells, and whistles but much of the same functionality. |
#109
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What Software for Editing Sound on PC
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
news "David White" wrote in message Yes, I've been using Winamp for that purpose to speed things along. Goldwave doesn't equalize in real time. However, I haven't figured out how to convert Winamp equalizer settings to Goldwave settings. They each seem to have a different idea of what a dB is. Goldwave seems to be about twice as sensitive. If you're talking about the Goldwave graphic equalizer, it does have slightly more dB range (24 dB) as the Winamp equalizer (20 dB). A given graphic adjustment has about 1/5 more effect, if the scales are correct. I thought the dB values were absolute in both cases, so if you increase a band by 1 dB, the affected fequencies increase by 1 dB, regardless of the range allowed. The Winamp bands (11) are narrower than the Gold wave bands (7). Broader bands have more obvious effects all other things being equal, because they affect a wider range of frequencies. Yes, maybe that's the reason Goldwave seems more sensitive. David |
#110
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What Software for Editing Sound on PC
"The Artist" wrote in message
... "Arny Krueger" emitted : I have noticed that Winamp takes a couple of seconds for changes to take effect. True for all similar realtime frequency-shaping tools because of the latency that is inherent in filters what work over the full audio band. Bull****. Try some other software, David. Well, the Winamp delay doesn't cause much of a problem. I have to listen for a few seconds at least anyway to guess what change to make next. David |
#111
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What Software for Editing Sound on PC
"Geoff Wood" -nospam wrote in message ... Arny Krueger wrote: Sorry, I don't have the time or energy to delve into Google and the web to bolster my point of view. I have other things to do... Unlike Arny, you must have a real job. ----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- |
#112
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What Software for Editing Sound on PC
PD said: That's why Arny packed in his job, so he could be the longest and loudest particiapnt of RAO! "Packed in his job" -- yeah, that's the ticket. |
#113
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What Software for Editing Sound on PC
Arny Krueger wrote:
Audition recently added whole category of functionality that I didn't see in the SF blurbs at all, related to sampling and looping. This was the means by which CE subsumed the MIDI features of sequencing programs like Cakewalk. HA HA AH - Just tried to find Audition on the Abode website. Know where it is ? Try looking under Digital Video" ! geoff |
#114
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What Software for Editing Sound on PC
Arny Krueger wrote:
If there could be a more superficial grounds to judge a product than its UI, what might it be? How superficial - worrying about something as trifling as the bit that the user has to interact with.... geoff |
#115
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What Software for Editing Sound on PC
The Artist wrote:
What's the point in a real-time EQ which "takes a few seconds to take hold"? I have never seen or heard of such a thing. Thats 'Near-Real-time' geoff |
#116
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What Software for Editing Sound on PC
"Geoff Wood" -nospam wrote in message
Arny Krueger wrote: If there could be a more superficial grounds to judge a product than its UI, what might it be? How superficial - worrying about something as trifling as the bit that the user has to interact with.... As a general rule, no UI in a competitive commercial product is THAT bad. For example in the old days there was a lot of ranting and raving about the UIs in MS Word and WordPerfect. On balance, they were both effective and eventually they evolved to being almost indistinguishable from each other, except to advanced users. At this point we know quite well what the basic canonical functions and features of an audio editor are. AFAIK none of the competitive products fail to provide them. They form the backbone of the process of getting the job done. Once you learn one of them, your learning curve for the next one is considerably foreshortened, unless you are really inflexible. Some people are really inflexible and go through life defeating themselves this way. Contemplating the project I did last week, I strongly suspect that if CE/Audition ceased to exist I could complete it with several of the competitive products in only a little more time the first time, and probably in about the same amount of time after a few go-arounds. Even true given the near-total lack of integration we now know exists in some competitive suites such as SF+Vegas. I'd just figure out some circumventions. |
#117
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What Software for Editing Sound on PC
"The Artist" wrote in message
"Arny Krueger" emitted : What's the point in a real-time EQ which "takes a few seconds to take hold"? I have never seen or heard of such a thing. I know of several examples. Name some. Given that they are in very common software like Winamp, I'm surprised you've never encountered this situation. I've seen it in hardware digital equalizers as well. I don't use Winamp. Then do us all the favor of not commenting on software that you don't use. All the plugs I've used offer near instantaneous response. The equalizer in Winamp isn't a plug-in. Please see former comments about not commenting about something you have no relevant experience with. In fact, it's a pre-requisite that they do so (have instantaneous response). Please see former comments about not commenting about something you already admitted that you have no relevant experience with. If I wanted a delay line... If you had actually worked with the Winamp equalizer, you'd know what I'm talking about. The core of most common digital filters is a tapped delay line. The rest of that kind of filter is a mixer. This implies that the filter has delay. The delay may or may not be frequency-dependent. Of course, analog filters can easily cause signal delay as well. Many digital filters have feedback, all IIR filters do. IIR filters are chosen because they usually take less resources to accomplish a given outcome. If you change filter parameters, it takes a while for the signal levels in the various feedback paths to stabilize because the paths have delays in them. Until the signal levels stabilize, the amplitude and phase characteristics of the filter are in a state of flux. In many cases this can be heard. It's especially audible in filters that affect low frequencies, while it's less likely to be heard in filters that affect only the highest frequencies. Some digital filters are FFT-based. They aren't explicitly based on tapped delay lines. Obviously, any change in the parameters of a FFT filter is not going to be effective until the next batch of samples is processed. If you want a narrow filter at low frequencies, say for rejecting hum, the sample size is going to be significant. You again have a delay before changes become audible. Of course people who know the difference between things like FFT, FIR and IIR filters know all about stuff like this. It's obvious that people who don't know about what I'm talking about don't really understand even the most basic topics in digital filter design. Furthermore, they must either have very limited listening experiences, or just have ears that are relatively insensitive. |
#118
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What Software for Editing Sound on PC
"David White" wrote in message
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message news "David White" wrote in message Yes, I've been using Winamp for that purpose to speed things along. Goldwave doesn't equalize in real time. However, I haven't figured out how to convert Winamp equalizer settings to Goldwave settings. They each seem to have a different idea of what a dB is. Goldwave seems to be about twice as sensitive. If you're talking about the Goldwave graphic equalizer, it does have slightly more dB range (24 dB) as the Winamp equalizer (20 dB). A given graphic adjustment has about 1/5 more effect, if the scales are correct. I thought the dB values were absolute in both cases, so if you increase a band by 1 dB, the affected fequencies increase by 1 dB, regardless of the range allowed. Agreed. But there's a perceptual issue due to the fact that the graphic controls have a different dB range. If you read the numbers, they are what they are. BTW, there's no guarantee that the numbers are truly representative, but a little FR testing would tell the tale. The Winamp bands (11) are narrower than the Gold wave bands (7). Broader bands have more obvious effects all other things being equal, because they affect a wider range of frequencies. Yes, maybe that's the reason Goldwave seems more sensitive. I think we're on the same page, here. |
#119
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What Software for Editing Sound on PC
On Thu, 22 Jan 2004 08:48:34 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote: Please see former comments about not commenting about something you already admitted that you have no relevant experience with. You mean like talking about current versions of SF? |
#120
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What Software for Editing Sound on PC
"dave weil" wrote in message
On Thu, 22 Jan 2004 08:48:34 -0500, "Arny Krueger" wrote: Please see former comments about not commenting about something you already admitted that you have no relevant experience with. You mean like talking about current versions of SF? I based my comments on statements that were made in this thread, and cited online documents. OTOH, its hard to talk about the feel of the controls of an audio product without actually experiencing them. Given that the topic was Winamp which anybody with a Windows PC can download for free and run as they will... I see the new Weil political correctness coming- you can't comment on other people's comments and cited online documents unless you have personal experience with the topic. Of course that means that none of us including Weil won't be able to comment on the war in Iraq without going there. We won't be able to comment on the primaries without being in every state while they are going on. This might have its moments! LOL! |
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