"dave weil" wrote in message
...
On 13 Jan 2004 13:13:02 -0800, (ScottW) wrote:

dave weil wrote in message
. ..
On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 08:47:28 -0500, "Sockpuppet Yustabe"
wrote:


The Marshall and Swift residential cost estimating guide, which is
used by
almost all real estate aappraisers has separate sections for
estimating
single family homes and manufactured housing. Within the real estate
profession, the home that you presented is not considered a single
family
home. Simply put, it is not of the same construction class as a
single
family home.

It is a single family home. Pure and simple. Spin all you want. The
original challenge asked me to find a simgle family home on a certain
web site. He didn't specify *any* certain kind of single family home.

You can't read or comprehend any better than Trotsky. What do you
think "detached" means?

Oh, excuse me. What do you think this particular dwelling is? It's
detached. So, it fits your request. So, allow me to correct my
statement - "He didn't specify any certain type of construction other
than to specify detached".

This example isn't one.

Sure it is. What do you think *detached* means? Are you that dense?

Using someones abuse of the listing service
in classifying a mobile as a detached single family home as evidence
is taking a mistake and turning it into a lie.

Note the listing - "Single-family detached". This is correct. Detached
simply means a free-standing home not attached to another unit, as in
a condo, apartment or duplex.

Sorry - you lose. Again.

You have the same can't admit a mistake problem Kreuger
has. Get help before it consumes you.

ScottW

On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 22:44:49 -0800, "ScottW"
wrote:

You have the same can't admit a mistake problem Kreuger
has.

In English please. Remember that it's still the national language - at
least until George W. thinks that changing it will win a second term.

"ScottW" wrote in message
news:Ez5Nb.21464$zs4.20427@fed1read01
"dave weil" wrote in message
...
On 13 Jan 2004 13:13:02 -0800, (ScottW) wrote:

dave weil wrote in message
. ..
On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 08:47:28 -0500, "Sockpuppet Yustabe"
wrote:


The Marshall and Swift residential cost estimating guide, which
is used by almost all real estate aappraisers has separate
sections for estimating single family homes and manufactured
housing. Within the real estate profession, the home that you
presented is not considered a single family home. Simply put, it
is not of the same construction class as a single family home.

It is a single family home. Pure and simple. Spin all you want. The
original challenge asked me to find a simgle family home on a
certain web site. He didn't specify *any* certain kind of single
family home.

You can't read or comprehend any better than Trotsky. What do you
think "detached" means?

Oh, excuse me. What do you think this particular dwelling is? It's
detached. So, it fits your request. So, allow me to correct my
statement - "He didn't specify any certain type of construction other
than to specify detached".

This example isn't one.

Sure it is. What do you think *detached* means? Are you that dense?

Using someones abuse of the listing service
in classifying a mobile as a detached single family home as evidence
is taking a mistake and turning it into a lie.

Note the listing - "Single-family detached". This is correct.
Detached simply means a free-standing home not attached to another
unit, as in a condo, apartment or duplex.

Sorry - you lose. Again.

You have the same can't admit a mistake problem Kreuger
has. Get help before it consumes you.

Just goes to show how vile and disturbed Scotty is. I support him in this
matter and he abuses my name.

Yustabe said:

"Marc Phillips" wrote in message
...
Arny said:

"Marc Phillips" wrote in message

Arny said:

"Marc Phillips" wrote in message


Hint: Either you or Arny need to back up first and address my
original statements.

Phillips, you're delusional. You don't have any original statements
in this thread. Everything you've postured on this matter was in
response to my claim that houses in California could lose
appreciable value if there isn't enough drinking water for the
people who might want to live in them.

The two of you are so immersed in the
Internet-geek way of thinking that you've both failed to a)dispute
my original claim of the sources of water for Southern California,
and

That would be a deception. Where California gets its water, such as
it is, is well-known. You've admitted that much of it comes from a
disputed source, namely the Colorado River.

b)answered my question about which states are having water stolen
from them.

That's a matter of the public record. The actual legal documents are
online, but they are way too complex for you to understand, so I
didn't cite them.

Both of you are so dead-set on arguing with me that you
haven't noticed that I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you.

As usual Philips, you seem to be dead set on denying well-known
facts.

If you want to recant on your earlier positions, why don't you just
say so directly?

All that is rubbish. I told you the sources for water in Southern
California as a response to your statement that we are stealing it.

I'll stop laughing when you tell me something that I didn't already know.

You knew that I told you the sources for water in Southern California as a
response to your statement that we are stealing it?

What does that have to do with anything?


My question is the same to you as it is to Rusty. How does someone
steal water off their own property, especially when the accusers are
UPSTREAM?

When there's a water rights treaty with someone downstream.

That's not the point.


Take all the time you need to obfuscate.

I can't believe that someone in LA is so stoopid that they forget the
existence of Mexico.

Mexico is NOT another state, dimwit. Just quit while you're behind
already.


It should be. Making it so would provide an answer to all our immigration
problems. All Mexicans, here, or in the new State of Mexico
(HAH! New Mexico is 'old' Mexico and Mexico is 'new' Mexico!!)
would now be US citizens, and therefore legal. And, we wouldn't
have much of a border problem. All we need to worry about is
Hondurans sneaking into our newest state, but our southern border would be
much shorter and easier to patrol.
A win-win for us, for Mexico, and for Mexican immigrants.
Mexican-Americans can come north to work, and American retirees
can move south to our affordable new state.

Excellent! We spend way too much money trying to keep Mexicans out, and we do
a terrible job of it. If we actually succeeded in deporting every illegal
alien in California, our economy would collapse.

After opening our borders to our neighbors down south, we could then stop
spending so much money on the drug war, too. The we could pay off the deficit.

Boon

"dave weil" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 22:44:49 -0800, "ScottW"
wrote:

You have the same can't admit a mistake problem Kreuger
has.

In English please. Remember that it's still the national language - at
least until George W. thinks that changing it will win a second term.

Arny figured it out. Don't tell me you're less adept then Arny.

Arny, could you please help Dave out? He seems all confused
for the lack of some punctuation. What would he do if was
a bit younger and ended up in the SMS generation?

I'm curious Dave. How much social security do you pay annually?
Do you pay a portion of your tips or just that minimum wage
and employer match? If that is the case, the services you have earned
are meager at best.

ScottW

On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 20:10:53 -0800, "ScottW"
wrote:


"dave weil" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 22:44:49 -0800, "ScottW"
wrote:

You have the same can't admit a mistake problem Kreuger
has.

In English please. Remember that it's still the national language - at
least until George W. thinks that changing it will win a second term.

Arny figured it out. Don't tell me you're less adept then Arny.

Well, he's adept at trashing the language, so he's probably pretty
good at decoding the above statement.

Arny, could you please help Dave out? He seems all confused
for the lack of some punctuation.
Yes, that silly punctuation. That silly English language.

What would he do if was a bit younger and ended up in the SMS generation?

I'm curious Dave. How much social security do you pay annually?

I don't have my statement handy. Figure it up on about $28K a year.

Do you pay a portion of your tips or just that minimum wage
and employer match?

I pay the correct proportion of $28K a year at the moment, the same as
anyone else. $28K includes my base salary of 2.13 an hour plus all of
my tips. Income tax is the last thing to be withheld, so there's
always a shortfall of about $1200 at tax time (it used to be $2200
owed until I bought my house). And yes, I claim every penny that I
make.

If that is the case, the services you have earned
are meager at best.

You forget that I served my country in the military. You forget that
I've been subsidizing people like you in educating your kids my entire
life. I think I've earned some services. BTW, Social Security doesn't
have anything to do with "services". I can understand why you might be
confused, since it's a pretty simple concept.

"dave weil" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 20:10:53 -0800, "ScottW"
wrote:


"dave weil" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 22:44:49 -0800, "ScottW"
wrote:

You have the same can't admit a mistake problem Kreuger
has.

In English please. Remember that it's still the national language - at
least until George W. thinks that changing it will win a second term.

Arny figured it out. Don't tell me you're less adept then Arny.

Well, he's adept at trashing the language, so he's probably pretty
good at decoding the above statement.

Arny, could you please help Dave out? He seems all confused
for the lack of some punctuation.
Yes, that silly punctuation. That silly English language.

What would he do if was a bit younger and ended up in the SMS
generation?

I'm curious Dave. How much social security do you pay annually?

I don't have my statement handy. Figure it up on about $28K a year.

Not much. Even if you went the Self employed rate which in fairness,
you should it amounts about 3K a year.

Do you pay a portion of your tips or just that minimum wage
and employer match?

I pay the correct proportion of $28K a year at the moment, the same as
anyone else. $28K includes my base salary of 2.13 an hour plus all of
my tips.

What rate do you pay on your tips? 12.4 or 6.2?
Is your employer only matching on the 2.13?

Income tax is the last thing to be withheld, so there's
always a shortfall of about $1200 at tax time (it used to be $2200
owed until I bought my house). And yes, I claim every penny that I
make.

If that is the case, the services you have earned
are meager at best.

You forget that I served my country in the military. You forget that
I've been subsidizing people like you in educating your kids my entire
life.

When did you live in Ca? How do you figure you helped pay
anything to subsidize education in Ca?


I think I've earned some services.

I wish you'd earn more. Matter of fact, I wish you made
enough money to pay more in than you will ever get a chance
to take out. Why don't you do that Dave? It would be good for your
country.

ScottW

On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 22:44:24 -0800, "ScottW"
wrote:


"dave weil" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 20:10:53 -0800, "ScottW"
wrote:


"dave weil" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 22:44:49 -0800, "ScottW"
wrote:

You have the same can't admit a mistake problem Kreuger
has.

In English please. Remember that it's still the national language - at
least until George W. thinks that changing it will win a second term.

Arny figured it out. Don't tell me you're less adept then Arny.

Well, he's adept at trashing the language, so he's probably pretty
good at decoding the above statement.

Arny, could you please help Dave out? He seems all confused
for the lack of some punctuation.
Yes, that silly punctuation. That silly English language.

What would he do if was a bit younger and ended up in the SMS
generation?

I'm curious Dave. How much social security do you pay annually?

I don't have my statement handy. Figure it up on about $28K a year.

Not much. Even if you went the Self employed rate which in fairness,
you should it amounts about 3K a year.

And what does this have to do with "services" that I'm taking
advantage of?

Do you pay a portion of your tips or just that minimum wage
and employer match?

I pay the correct proportion of $28K a year at the moment, the same as
anyone else. $28K includes my base salary of 2.13 an hour plus all of
my tips.

What rate do you pay on your tips? 12.4 or 6.2?
Is your employer only matching on the 2.13?

I couldn't tell you. I have no idea what their rate is. I really don't
know how that works. I have no idea what rate I pay. Probably the
lower rate.

Income tax is the last thing to be withheld, so there's
always a shortfall of about $1200 at tax time (it used to be $2200
owed until I bought my house). And yes, I claim every penny that I
make.

If that is the case, the services you have earned
are meager at best.

You forget that I served my country in the military. You forget that
I've been subsidizing people like you in educating your kids my entire
life.

When did you live in Ca? How do you figure you helped pay
anything to subsidize education in Ca?

I said "people like you", which means people in MY state. However, I
have *never* complained about financing education because I think that
it's one of those social responsibilities that everyone shares. Take
care of the kids and take care of the elderly.

I think I've earned some services.

I wish you'd earn more. Matter of fact, I wish you made
enough money to pay more in than you will ever get a chance
to take out. Why don't you do that Dave? It would be good for your
country.

Frankly, I think I pay my way. I don't take any more services than
anyone else. I use the local library and I drive on the roads. I get
garbage service. Other than the almost free medical care that I earned
from my four years in the military, I really can't think of any
services that I take advantage of. Now you are a different story. You
have a brood of kids that gets subsidized. They even get your taxes
reduced.

Why are you concerned with my income anyway? I pay taxes just like
everyone else. I'm not a drag on society. I served my country in the
military. I leave a very small footprint when it comes to government
services. I'm sorry that you've chosen to live in a land where milk
and honey is very expensive. Me, I wouldn't pay extra to live next to
a desert, and the sea isn't my thing, but your choice to live in a
community where houses are outrageously priced and your taxes are
onerous are your own. You are also free to earn whatever it is you
earn.

dave weil wrote in message . ..

I'm curious Dave. How much social security do you pay annually?

I don't have my statement handy. Figure it up on about $28K a year.

Not much. Even if you went the Self employed rate which in fairness,
you should it amounts about 3K a year.

And what does this have to do with "services" that I'm taking
advantage of?

I don't know, are you taking advantage of services or are you having
difficulty remembering who said what?


Do you pay a portion of your tips or just that minimum wage
and employer match?

I pay the correct proportion of $28K a year at the moment, the same as
anyone else. $28K includes my base salary of 2.13 an hour plus all of
my tips.

What rate do you pay on your tips? 12.4 or 6.2?
Is your employer only matching on the 2.13?

I couldn't tell you.

Then how do you know you're paying the correct proportion. I suspect
since your employer is paying you below min wage you aren't considered
an employee at all but a contractor. As such you are self employed
and should be paying 12.4

I have no idea what their rate is. I really don't
know how that works. I have no idea what rate I pay. Probably the
lower rate.

Let me guess. You pay someone to do your taxes.


Income tax is the last thing to be withheld, so there's
always a shortfall of about $1200 at tax time (it used to be $2200
owed until I bought my house). And yes, I claim every penny that I
make.

If that is the case, the services you have earned
are meager at best.

You forget that I served my country in the military. You forget that
I've been subsidizing people like you in educating your kids my entire
life.

When did you live in Ca? How do you figure you helped pay
anything to subsidize education in Ca?

I said "people like you", which means people in MY state. However, I
have *never* complained about financing education because I think that
it's one of those social responsibilities that everyone shares. Take
care of the kids and take care of the elderly.

Then why did you bring it up as if it was some kind of defense?


I think I've earned some services.

I wish you'd earn more. Matter of fact, I wish you made
enough money to pay more in than you will ever get a chance
to take out. Why don't you do that Dave? It would be good for your
country.

Frankly, I think I pay my way. I don't take any more services than
anyone else. I use the local library and I drive on the roads. I get
garbage service. Other than the almost free medical care that I earned
from my four years in the military, I really can't think of any
services that I take advantage of.

There will come a time that you will. Further, since you seem to be
a liberal socialist kind of guy it would be nice if you paid more than
just your personal share but contributed to the greater good of those
unfortunates you think should be assisted.

Now you are a different story. You
have a brood of kids that gets subsidized. They even get your taxes
reduced.

I have one child. How much more in taxes should I pay than you do
Dave?
Double? Triple? If you pay your share, how much should I pay for my
little 3 person family to pay my share?


Why are you concerned with my income anyway? I pay taxes just like
everyone else. I'm not a drag on society.

You advocate policies which are a drag to those who foot the bill.
You freely admit you might be breaking even but you aren't doing much
to cover the expenses of those who don't yet you advocate policies for
which you do not pay.

I served my country in the
military.

Thank-you.

I leave a very small footprint when it comes to government
services.

Thank-you

I'm sorry that you've chosen to live in a land where milk
and honey is very expensive. Me, I wouldn't pay extra to live next to
a desert, and the sea isn't my thing, but your choice to live in a
community where houses are outrageously priced and your taxes are
onerous are your own.

No Dave, they aren't my own. You have some responsibility for the
tax burden I pay.

You are also free to earn whatever it is you
earn.

I am free to earn it, would you let me be free to keep it?

ScottW

On 15 Jan 2004 13:23:46 -0800, (ScottW) wrote:

dave weil wrote in message . ..

I'm curious Dave. How much social security do you pay annually?

I don't have my statement handy. Figure it up on about $28K a year.

Not much. Even if you went the Self employed rate which in fairness,
you should it amounts about 3K a year.

And what does this have to do with "services" that I'm taking
advantage of?

I don't know, are you taking advantage of services or are you having
difficulty remembering who said what?


Do you pay a portion of your tips or just that minimum wage
and employer match?

I pay the correct proportion of $28K a year at the moment, the same as
anyone else. $28K includes my base salary of 2.13 an hour plus all of
my tips.

What rate do you pay on your tips? 12.4 or 6.2?
Is your employer only matching on the 2.13?

I couldn't tell you.

Then how do you know you're paying the correct proportion.

I'm pretty sure that my company complies with the normal withholding
requirements.

I suspect since your employer is paying you below min wage you aren't considered
an employee at all but a contractor.

This is incorrect. Restaurants are allowed to pay below minimum wage,
as long as declared tips bring the hourly wage up to minimum wage.
This is the same for *any* "normally tipped" employee. if you are so
hot about this, I can provide you the DOL links which explain the "tip
exemption" allowed by law.

As such you are self employed and should be paying 12.4

Nope. I'm not "self-employed". I am employed by a company which has to
pay the matching SS, unemployment insurance, etc.

I have no idea what their rate is. I really don't
know how that works. I have no idea what rate I pay. Probably the
lower rate.

Let me guess. You pay someone to do your taxes.

No I don't. I do it myself. It's pretty simple. I take the total tips
and add my hourly earnings for the year. I then deduct my property
taxes, my mortgage interest, my charitable donations, my personal
exemption and read the amount of income tax that I owe. I then
subtract the yearly withholding to determine what I either get back or
have to pay. It usually sits around owing $1200 the past couple of
years. Before I bought my house, I used to owe about $2200 at tax
time.

Income tax is the last thing to be withheld, so there's
always a shortfall of about $1200 at tax time (it used to be $2200
owed until I bought my house). And yes, I claim every penny that I
make.

If that is the case, the services you have earned
are meager at best.

You forget that I served my country in the military. You forget that
I've been subsidizing people like you in educating your kids my entire
life.

When did you live in Ca? How do you figure you helped pay
anything to subsidize education in Ca?

I said "people like you", which means people in MY state. However, I
have *never* complained about financing education because I think that
it's one of those social responsibilities that everyone shares. Take
care of the kids and take care of the elderly.

Then why did you bring it up as if it was some kind of defense?

Because it *is* a defense. I don't mind paying it, but I *do* pay it.

I think I've earned some services.

I wish you'd earn more. Matter of fact, I wish you made
enough money to pay more in than you will ever get a chance
to take out. Why don't you do that Dave? It would be good for your
country.

Frankly, I think I pay my way. I don't take any more services than
anyone else. I use the local library and I drive on the roads. I get
garbage service. Other than the almost free medical care that I earned
from my four years in the military, I really can't think of any
services that I take advantage of.

There will come a time that you will.

And I maintain that the fact that I did something that *you* weren't
willing to do and take FOUR YEARS out of my life to put my body on the
line for my country on the front lines of the Cold War entitles me to
more consideration than you deserve.

Further, since you seem to be
a liberal socialist kind of guy it would be nice if you paid more than
just your personal share but contributed to the greater good of those
unfortunates you think should be assisted.

Actually I do. I think that I pay far more taxes than services that I
ACTUALLY consume.

Now you are a different story. You
have a brood of kids that gets subsidized. They even get your taxes
reduced.

I have one child. How much more in taxes should I pay than you do
Dave?

Well, soncsidering that it will probably cost the state in excess of
$200,000 to educate that child, *plus* if that child goes to a public
school, the amount will increase, how much do you think you've paid
toward that amount, keeping in mind that the child reduces your tax
burden in the first place?

Double? Triple? If you pay your share, how much should I pay for my
little 3 person family to pay my share?

I don't know. Do you pay for 18 years of education? How much would 18
years of private education would it cost you to educate that child? A
couple of hundred thousand dollars maybe?

Why are you concerned with my income anyway? I pay taxes just like
everyone else. I'm not a drag on society.

You advocate policies which are a drag to those who foot the bill.
You freely admit you might be breaking even but you aren't doing much
to cover the expenses of those who don't yet you advocate policies for
which you do not pay.

No, I claim that I'm paying FAR more money than I personally use in
services. The rest goes to the common good (oops, there's a phrase
that our forefathers used)

I served my country in the
military.

Thank-you.

You're welcome.

I leave a very small footprint when it comes to government
services.

Thank-you

You're welcome. So why are you giving me so much grief? Why do you
bust me on my income and my career choice?

I'm sorry that you've chosen to live in a land where milk
and honey is very expensive. Me, I wouldn't pay extra to live next to
a desert, and the sea isn't my thing, but your choice to live in a
community where houses are outrageously priced and your taxes are
onerous are your own.

No Dave, they aren't my own. You have some responsibility for the
tax burden I pay.

No I don't. I live in a community that imposes its own taxes and has
its own cost of living. You're free to live where you live and pay
$400,000 for a house that would only cost $100,000 somewhere else. I
don't have any responsibility in determining where you live.

You are also free to earn whatever it is you
earn.

I am free to earn it, would you let me be free to keep it?

After you fulfill your social responsibilties like I do - sure.
Otherwise, give me back a couple of grand a year from the taxes that I
pay. I pay 9.25% sales tax for everything that I consume, you know (no
state income tax), *plus* I pay property taxes to help educate the
kids in my community.

On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 16:28:06 -0600, dave weil
wrote:


Well, soncsidering that it will probably cost the state in excess of
$200,000 to educate that child, *plus* if that child goes to a public
school,

First of all, it should be "considering" (obviously) and second, the
last part should have read "if that child goes to a public college".

dave weil said:

last part should have read "if that child goes to a public college".

I don't think there's much danger of a younger Terrierborg cracking
the Ivies.

"dave weil" wrote in message
...
On 15 Jan 2004 13:23:46 -0800, (ScottW) wrote:
Let me guess. You pay someone to do your taxes.

No I don't. I do it myself. It's pretty simple. I take the total tips
and add my hourly earnings for the year. I then deduct my property
taxes, my mortgage interest, my charitable donations, my personal
exemption and read the amount of income tax that I owe. I then
subtract the yearly withholding to determine what I either get back or
have to pay. It usually sits around owing $1200 the past couple of
years. Before I bought my house, I used to owe about $2200 at tax
time.

Do you calculate the SS contributions of your employer?
How does your employer know what tips you have earned?
You see, in your business, your employer is popped 6.2%
of every dollar in tips you get.
Do you get a W-2 that includes your tips or just wages?
If I were you, I would confirm your employer isn't under declaring
your tips to save themselves on the matching 6.2% I've read it is
quite common, and people don't realize it until they request benefits.


Income tax is the last thing to be withheld, so there's
always a shortfall of about $1200 at tax time (it used to be $2200
owed until I bought my house). And yes, I claim every penny that I
make.

If that is the case, the services you have earned
are meager at best.

You forget that I served my country in the military. You forget
that
I've been subsidizing people like you in educating your kids my
entire
life.

When did you live in Ca? How do you figure you helped pay
anything to subsidize education in Ca?

I said "people like you", which means people in MY state. However, I
have *never* complained about financing education because I think that
it's one of those social responsibilities that everyone shares. Take
care of the kids and take care of the elderly.

Then why did you bring it up as if it was some kind of defense?

Because it *is* a defense. I don't mind paying it, but I *do* pay it.

No, it was a responsibility and as such earns you no bonus points.


I think I've earned some services.

I wish you'd earn more. Matter of fact, I wish you made
enough money to pay more in than you will ever get a chance
to take out. Why don't you do that Dave? It would be good for your
country.

Frankly, I think I pay my way. I don't take any more services than
anyone else. I use the local library and I drive on the roads. I get
garbage service. Other than the almost free medical care that I earned
from my four years in the military, I really can't think of any
services that I take advantage of.

There will come a time that you will.

And I maintain that the fact that I did something that *you* weren't
willing to do and take FOUR YEARS out of my life to put my body on the
line for my country on the front lines of the Cold War entitles me to
more consideration than you deserve.

I agree veterans don't get all they deserve.


Further, since you seem to be
a liberal socialist kind of guy it would be nice if you paid more than
just your personal share but contributed to the greater good of those
unfortunates you think should be assisted.

Actually I do. I think that I pay far more taxes than services that I
ACTUALLY consume.

Now you are a different story. You
have a brood of kids that gets subsidized. They even get your taxes
reduced.

I have one child. How much more in taxes should I pay than you do
Dave?

Well, soncsidering that it will probably cost the state in excess of
$200,000 to educate that child,

California currently pays about 7.2K per student per year.
The national average is about 7.6K.
You don't seem to have a clue about the cost of education.

*plus* if that child goes to a public
school, the amount will increase, how much do you think you've paid
toward that amount, keeping in mind that the child reduces your tax
burden in the first place?

Substantially more.



Double? Triple? If you pay your share, how much should I pay for my
little 3 person family to pay my share?

I don't know. Do you pay for 18 years of education?

Yes and more.

How much would 18
years of private education would it cost you to educate that child?

Irrelevant. But some are cheaper than the state cost.
What if I home schooled my child for example?

A
couple of hundred thousand dollars maybe?

Why are you concerned with my income anyway? I pay taxes just like
everyone else. I'm not a drag on society.

You advocate policies which are a drag to those who foot the bill.
You freely admit you might be breaking even but you aren't doing much
to cover the expenses of those who don't yet you advocate policies for
which you do not pay.

No, I claim that I'm paying FAR more money than I personally use in
services. The rest goes to the common good (oops, there's a phrase
that our forefathers used)

I guess our definition of "FAR" is going to vary. Your total tax
contributions
are meager. For example, do you think you pay a fair share of
the Federal budget? Total costs are about 7500 per person.
Corp income tax revenue is about 1/5 of personal income tax revenue.
So your individual share (as divided among every man woman and child)
is over 6000 dollars. Do you pay 6000 in Federal income tax?
I don't think so. With no deductions you might pay 4K.
Your deductions are likely to reduce this quite a bit.


I served my country in the
military.

Thank-you.

You're welcome.

I leave a very small footprint when it comes to government
services.

Thank-you

You're welcome. So why are you giving me so much grief? Why do you
bust me on my income and my career choice?

I'm sorry that you've chosen to live in a land where milk
and honey is very expensive. Me, I wouldn't pay extra to live next to
a desert, and the sea isn't my thing, but your choice to live in a
community where houses are outrageously priced and your taxes are
onerous are your own.

No Dave, they aren't my own. You have some responsibility for the
tax burden I pay.

No I don't. I live in a community that imposes its own taxes and has
its own cost of living. You're free to live where you live and pay
$400,000 for a house that would only cost $100,000 somewhere else. I
don't have any responsibility in determining where you live.

You are also free to earn whatever it is you
earn.

I am free to earn it, would you let me be free to keep it?

After you fulfill your social responsibilties like I do - sure.

But how much more are my social responsibilities than yours?

If you pay your share, I would gladly pay 3x that plus my kids
total private education costs. I would fall to my knees and praise
God, Jesus, and Allah if that was all I had to pay.

Otherwise, give me back a couple of grand a year from the taxes that I
pay. I pay 9.25% sales tax for everything that I consume, you know (no
state income tax), *plus* I pay property taxes to help educate the
kids in my community.

I pay state income tax, property tax, and sales tax (7.5%).
I would strongly prefer a flat sales tax.
Discussing how much I pay in Federal taxes is just too
depressing.

ScottW

On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 21:53:34 -0800, "ScottW"
wrote:


"dave weil" wrote in message
.. .
On 15 Jan 2004 13:23:46 -0800, (ScottW) wrote:
Let me guess. You pay someone to do your taxes.

No I don't. I do it myself. It's pretty simple. I take the total tips
and add my hourly earnings for the year. I then deduct my property
taxes, my mortgage interest, my charitable donations, my personal
exemption and read the amount of income tax that I owe. I then
subtract the yearly withholding to determine what I either get back or
have to pay. It usually sits around owing $1200 the past couple of
years. Before I bought my house, I used to owe about $2200 at tax
time.

Do you calculate the SS contributions of your employer?

I don't. Didn't you read?

How does your employer know what tips you have earned?

Damn, you're dense. sigh

I declare them on a daily basis at the end of my shift. Most of the
tips are impossible to hide because about 95% of my tips are done with
credit cards. Then I add in the cash tips that I receive. and yes, as
I've said, I declare every penny I make. I do this for two reasons.
First, it's my responsibility and second, it gives potential credit
grantors my true income.

You see, in your business, your employer is popped 6.2%
of every dollar in tips you get.

Well then, they're popped for 6.2% on $28,000 a year.

Do you get a W-2 that includes your tips or just wages?

Damn, you just don't give up, do you? OF COURSE I get a W-2 that
includes tips and wages. They are separated as well. I also get a
paystub that breaks them off as well. Of course, I get a $0 check with
that paystub.

If I were you, I would confirm your employer isn't under declaring
your tips to save themselves on the matching 6.2% I've read it is
quite common, and people don't realize it until they request benefits.

I'm sorry that apparently you work for a company that causes you to
distrust other companies, and I'd like to read the sources that you
have that says that it's "quite common". I work for a reputable and
successful company. But sigh, since you seem so interested in my
PRIVATE FINANCIAL AFFAIRS, how does $80 on about $1300 sound to you?

Oh yeah, before you ask another bonehead question - you can add
another $18.86 for Medicare.

Income tax is the last thing to be withheld, so there's
always a shortfall of about $1200 at tax time (it used to be $2200
owed until I bought my house). And yes, I claim every penny that I
make.

If that is the case, the services you have earned
are meager at best.

You forget that I served my country in the military. You forget
that
I've been subsidizing people like you in educating your kids my
entire
life.

When did you live in Ca? How do you figure you helped pay
anything to subsidize education in Ca?

I said "people like you", which means people in MY state. However, I
have *never* complained about financing education because I think that
it's one of those social responsibilities that everyone shares. Take
care of the kids and take care of the elderly.

Then why did you bring it up as if it was some kind of defense?

Because it *is* a defense. I don't mind paying it, but I *do* pay it.

No, it was a responsibility and as such earns you no bonus points.

Yes, a responsibility - just like taking care of the elderly (that's
my point - thanks for making it for me) Remember, there's nothing in
the Constitution that covers either instance. If you demand that
taking care of other peoples' kids is my responsibility, then I can
maintain that it's *your* responsibility to take care of our elderly,
*especially* those who have paid to help you raise your kids.

I think I've earned some services.

I wish you'd earn more. Matter of fact, I wish you made
enough money to pay more in than you will ever get a chance
to take out. Why don't you do that Dave? It would be good for your
country.

Frankly, I think I pay my way. I don't take any more services than
anyone else. I use the local library and I drive on the roads. I get
garbage service. Other than the almost free medical care that I earned
from my four years in the military, I really can't think of any
services that I take advantage of.

There will come a time that you will.

And I maintain that the fact that I did something that *you* weren't
willing to do and take FOUR YEARS out of my life to put my body on the
line for my country on the front lines of the Cold War entitles me to
more consideration than you deserve.

I agree veterans don't get all they deserve.

So why bitch about me carrying my load?

Further, since you seem to be
a liberal socialist kind of guy it would be nice if you paid more than
just your personal share but contributed to the greater good of those
unfortunates you think should be assisted.

Actually I do. I think that I pay far more taxes than services that I
ACTUALLY consume.

Now you are a different story. You
have a brood of kids that gets subsidized. They even get your taxes
reduced.

I have one child. How much more in taxes should I pay than you do
Dave?

Well, considering that it will probably cost the state in excess of
$200,000 to educate that child,

California currently pays about 7.2K per student per year.
The national average is about 7.6K.
You don't seem to have a clue about the cost of education.

OK half that then. $100,000.

*plus* if that child goes to a public
school, the amount will increase, how much do you think you've paid
toward that amount, keeping in mind that the child reduces your tax
burden in the first place?

Substantially more.

How do you spend $7 grand a year on your kid while in public school?
Are you buying gold-plated school supplies?

Double? Triple? If you pay your share, how much should I pay for my
little 3 person family to pay my share?

I don't know. Do you pay for 18 years of education?

Yes and more.

You get a $7 grand bonus from the government. Welfare.

How much would 18
years of private education would it cost you to educate that child?

Irrelevant. But some are cheaper than the state cost.

Oh, so houses in California are triple what they would be elsewhere,
but private schools are cheap. Why don't I believe that?

What if I home schooled my child for example?

Then you would pay far more than you do now, that's for sure. You not
only buy books but you buy "curriculum".

A
couple of hundred thousand dollars maybe?

Why are you concerned with my income anyway? I pay taxes just like
everyone else. I'm not a drag on society.

You advocate policies which are a drag to those who foot the bill.
You freely admit you might be breaking even but you aren't doing much
to cover the expenses of those who don't yet you advocate policies for
which you do not pay.

No, I claim that I'm paying FAR more money than I personally use in
services. The rest goes to the common good (oops, there's a phrase
that our forefathers used)

I guess our definition of "FAR" is going to vary. Your total tax
contributions
are meager.

I guess that our definition of "meager" are going to vary.

For example, do you think you pay a fair share of
the Federal budget? Total costs are about 7500 per person.
Corp income tax revenue is about 1/5 of personal income tax revenue.
So your individual share (as divided among every man woman and child)
is over 6000 dollars. Do you pay 6000 in Federal income tax?

No I don't.

I don't think so. With no deductions you might pay 4K.
Your deductions are likely to reduce this quite a bit.

So? I pay the exact same tax that anyone in my income bracket pays.
Are you saying that I should be deported because I don't pay the
average amount of costs, even though I haven't imposed the burden of
educating kids, or use the barest minimum of government services?

I served my country in the
military.

Thank-you.

You're welcome.

I leave a very small footprint when it comes to government
services.

Thank-you

You're welcome. So why are you giving me so much grief? Why do you
bust me on my income and my career choice?

I'm sorry that you've chosen to live in a land where milk
and honey is very expensive. Me, I wouldn't pay extra to live next to
a desert, and the sea isn't my thing, but your choice to live in a
community where houses are outrageously priced and your taxes are
onerous are your own.

No Dave, they aren't my own. You have some responsibility for the
tax burden I pay.

No I don't. I live in a community that imposes its own taxes and has
its own cost of living. You're free to live where you live and pay
$400,000 for a house that would only cost $100,000 somewhere else. I
don't have any responsibility in determining where you live.

You are also free to earn whatever it is you
earn.

I am free to earn it, would you let me be free to keep it?

After you fulfill your social responsibilties like I do - sure.

But how much more are my social responsibilities than yours?

None. Educate kids, take care of the elderly. At a bare minimum.

If you pay your share, I would gladly pay 3x that plus my kids
total private education costs. I would fall to my knees and praise
God, Jesus, and Allah if that was all I had to pay.

I think that I pay my share based on the services I use. I don't use
*nearly* the amount of money that the average person uses.

Otherwise, give me back a couple of grand a year from the taxes that I
pay. I pay 9.25% sales tax for everything that I consume, you know (no
state income tax), *plus* I pay property taxes to help educate the
kids in my community.

I pay state income tax, property tax, and sales tax (7.5%).
I would strongly prefer a flat sales tax.

Well, that's what we have, but we also pay property tax, at a 25%
assessed rate (if I'm not mistaken). Why on earth would you want a
regressive flat tax? Oh, because you're not at the low end of the
income scale. Figures.

Discussing how much I pay in Federal taxes is just too
depressing.

Oh, but you don't mind demanding that *I* discuss mine.

....and now, you're dismissed...

dave weil wrote in message . ..
On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 21:53:34 -0800, "ScottW"
wrote:


"dave weil" wrote in message
.. .
On 15 Jan 2004 13:23:46 -0800, (ScottW) wrote:
Let me guess. You pay someone to do your taxes.

No I don't. I do it myself. It's pretty simple. I take the total tips
and add my hourly earnings for the year. I then deduct my property
taxes, my mortgage interest, my charitable donations, my personal
exemption and read the amount of income tax that I owe. I then
subtract the yearly withholding to determine what I either get back or
have to pay. It usually sits around owing $1200 the past couple of
years. Before I bought my house, I used to owe about $2200 at tax
time.

Do you calculate the SS contributions of your employer?

I don't. Didn't you read?

How does your employer know what tips you have earned?

Damn, you're dense. sigh

Damn, you're poor. fart


I declare them on a daily basis at the end of my shift. Most of the
tips are impossible to hide because about 95% of my tips are done with
credit cards. Then I add in the cash tips that I receive. and yes, as
I've said, I declare every penny I make. I do this for two reasons.
First, it's my responsibility and second, it gives potential credit
grantors my true income.

You see, in your business, your employer is popped 6.2%
of every dollar in tips you get.

Well then, they're popped for 6.2% on $28,000 a year.

Do you get a W-2 that includes your tips or just wages?

Damn, you just don't give up, do you? OF COURSE I get a W-2 that
includes tips and wages. They are separated as well. I also get a
paystub that breaks them off as well. Of course, I get a $0 check with
that paystub.

If I were you, I would confirm your employer isn't under declaring
your tips to save themselves on the matching 6.2% I've read it is
quite common, and people don't realize it until they request benefits.

I'm sorry that apparently you work for a company that causes you to
distrust other companies,

I see you haven't lost your tendency to make crap up.
You just can't stay on that high horse, can you?

and I'd like to read the sources that you
have that says that it's "quite common". I work for a reputable and
successful company. But sigh, since you seem so interested in my
PRIVATE FINANCIAL AFFAIRS, how does $80 on about $1300 sound to you?

Sounds about right. I'm just trying to make sure you understand
what the contribution should be, it is in your best interest.


Oh yeah, before you ask another bonehead question - you can add
another $18.86 for Medicare.

Income tax is the last thing to be withheld, so there's
always a shortfall of about $1200 at tax time (it used to be $2200
owed until I bought my house). And yes, I claim every penny that I
make.

If that is the case, the services you have earned
are meager at best.

You forget that I served my country in the military. You forget
that
I've been subsidizing people like you in educating your kids my
entire
life.

When did you live in Ca? How do you figure you helped pay
anything to subsidize education in Ca?

I said "people like you", which means people in MY state. However, I
have *never* complained about financing education because I think that
it's one of those social responsibilities that everyone shares. Take
care of the kids and take care of the elderly.

Then why did you bring it up as if it was some kind of defense?

Because it *is* a defense. I don't mind paying it, but I *do* pay it.

No, it was a responsibility and as such earns you no bonus points.

Yes, a responsibility - just like taking care of the elderly (that's
my point - thanks for making it for me) Remember, there's nothing in
the Constitution that covers either instance. If you demand that
taking care of other peoples' kids is my responsibility, then I can
maintain that it's *your* responsibility to take care of our elderly,
*especially* those who have paid to help you raise your kids.

You have missed the critical points, again. I have paid far more than
my share for my kids, my family, and my responsibility. I don't owe
anything for your parents or anyone else's parents. I'll take care of
my own, thanks.
Can you say the same?


I think I've earned some services.

I wish you'd earn more. Matter of fact, I wish you made
enough money to pay more in than you will ever get a chance
to take out. Why don't you do that Dave? It would be good for your
country.

Frankly, I think I pay my way. I don't take any more services than
anyone else. I use the local library and I drive on the roads. I get
garbage service. Other than the almost free medical care that I earned
from my four years in the military, I really can't think of any
services that I take advantage of.

There will come a time that you will.

And I maintain that the fact that I did something that *you* weren't
willing to do and take FOUR YEARS out of my life to put my body on the
line for my country on the front lines of the Cold War entitles me to
more consideration than you deserve.

I agree veterans don't get all they deserve.

So why bitch about me carrying my load?

I said you don't get all the benefits you deserve. That doesn't
absolve of responsibility for carrying your share of the national
burden.
Do 4 years and gain absolution for life, I don't think so Dave.

Further, since you seem to be
a liberal socialist kind of guy it would be nice if you paid more than
just your personal share but contributed to the greater good of those
unfortunates you think should be assisted.

Actually I do. I think that I pay far more taxes than services that I
ACTUALLY consume.

Now you are a different story. You
have a brood of kids that gets subsidized. They even get your taxes
reduced.

I have one child. How much more in taxes should I pay than you do
Dave?

Well, considering that it will probably cost the state in excess of
$200,000 to educate that child,

California currently pays about 7.2K per student per year.
The national average is about 7.6K.
You don't seem to have a clue about the cost of education.

OK half that then. $100,000.

*plus* if that child goes to a public
school, the amount will increase, how much do you think you've paid
toward that amount, keeping in mind that the child reduces your tax
burden in the first place?

Substantially more.

How do you spend $7 grand a year on your kid while in public school?
Are you buying gold-plated school supplies?

Now you're being dense. I pay far more in state taxes than the cost
of my child's education. I've covered my share many times over and
continue to do so.

Double? Triple? If you pay your share, how much should I pay for my
little 3 person family to pay my share?

I don't know. Do you pay for 18 years of education?

Yes and more.

You get a $7 grand bonus from the government. Welfare.

You just went from being dense to a blithering incomprehensible
idiot.
Claiming public education is the equivalent of welfare regardless of
a persons tax burden is just plain stupid.



How much would 18
years of private education would it cost you to educate that child?

Irrelevant. But some are cheaper than the state cost.

Oh, so houses in California are triple what they would be elsewhere,
but private schools are cheap. Why don't I believe that?

I don't care if you don't believe it. You didn't know the cost of
public education, why should you understand the private options.
Let me give you a hint, private schools don't have unionized labor
and don't always require the bogus certifications public schools do.

What if I home schooled my child for example?

Then you would pay far more than you do now, that's for sure. You not
only buy books but you buy "curriculum".

But if I didn't have to pay for the public education would it be
less or more?
That was the question and your ridiculous factless dance isn't
supporting your argument.

A
couple of hundred thousand dollars maybe?

Why are you concerned with my income anyway? I pay taxes just like
everyone else. I'm not a drag on society.

You advocate policies which are a drag to those who foot the bill.
You freely admit you might be breaking even but you aren't doing much
to cover the expenses of those who don't yet you advocate policies for
which you do not pay.

No, I claim that I'm paying FAR more money than I personally use in
services. The rest goes to the common good (oops, there's a phrase
that our forefathers used)

I guess our definition of "FAR" is going to vary. Your total tax
contributions
are meager.

I guess that our definition of "meager" are going to vary.

For example, do you think you pay a fair share of
the Federal budget? Total costs are about 7500 per person.
Corp income tax revenue is about 1/5 of personal income tax revenue.
So your individual share (as divided among every man woman and child)
is over 6000 dollars. Do you pay 6000 in Federal income tax?

No I don't.

I don't think so. With no deductions you might pay 4K.
Your deductions are likely to reduce this quite a bit.

So? I pay the exact same tax that anyone in my income bracket pays.
Are you saying that I should be deported because I don't pay the
average amount of costs, even though I haven't imposed the burden of
educating kids, or use the barest minimum of government services?

No, but I am saying you should realize that you aren't paying your
share in a simple equal division of responsibility formula. Guys like
me are covering your shortfall.
You should get off your ass and take a second job.


I served my country in the
military.

Thank-you.

You're welcome.

I leave a very small footprint when it comes to government
services.

Thank-you

You're welcome. So why are you giving me so much grief? Why do you
bust me on my income and my career choice?

I'm sorry that you've chosen to live in a land where milk
and honey is very expensive. Me, I wouldn't pay extra to live next to
a desert, and the sea isn't my thing, but your choice to live in a
community where houses are outrageously priced and your taxes are
onerous are your own.

No Dave, they aren't my own. You have some responsibility for the
tax burden I pay.

No I don't. I live in a community that imposes its own taxes and has
its own cost of living. You're free to live where you live and pay
$400,000 for a house that would only cost $100,000 somewhere else. I
don't have any responsibility in determining where you live.

You are also free to earn whatever it is you
earn.

I am free to earn it, would you let me be free to keep it?

After you fulfill your social responsibilties like I do - sure.

But how much more are my social responsibilities than yours?

None. Educate kids, take care of the elderly. At a bare minimum.

If you pay your share, I would gladly pay 3x that plus my kids
total private education costs. I would fall to my knees and praise
God, Jesus, and Allah if that was all I had to pay.

I think that I pay my share based on the services I use. I don't use
*nearly* the amount of money that the average person uses.

What percentage of the Federal budget do you use?
You don't know and can't make an educated guess.
Yet you want to absolve yourself of any social responsibility and
only pay what you personally use. That doesn't sound like a liberal
to me.
Why don't you just step up and pay 1 equal share. Just 1.
You should realize that I have given you a tremendous break in the
6K calculation as that is an equal share of every man, woman, and
child. I'm saying your share is no greater and no less than an infant
child.
If we change that to an adult taxpayers share, you would need to come
up with substantially more.
Wouldn't you agree that your personal responsibility to this nation
is more than a newborn baby?


Otherwise, give me back a couple of grand a year from the taxes that I
pay. I pay 9.25% sales tax for everything that I consume, you know (no
state income tax), *plus* I pay property taxes to help educate the
kids in my community.

I pay state income tax, property tax, and sales tax (7.5%).
I would strongly prefer a flat sales tax.

Well, that's what we have, but we also pay property tax, at a 25%
assessed rate (if I'm not mistaken). Why on earth would you want a
regressive flat tax? Oh, because you're not at the low end of the
income scale. Figures.

Why is it regressive? Everyone pays the same percentage of the
money they spend. I would pay more because I would spend more. That
doesn't sound regressive. It sounds fair.

Discussing how much I pay in Federal taxes is just too
depressing.

Oh, but you don't mind demanding that *I* discuss mine.

...and now, you're dismissed...

Funny, Dave is pretending he is now the officer he never was in the
military.
Oh well, let the selfish, pay only my share, liberal have his
fantasy.

ScottW

In article ,
(ScottW) wrote:

Oh well, let the selfish, pay only my share, liberal have his
fantasy.

dave's not here.

Stephen

On 16 Jan 2004 14:04:29 -0800, (ScottW) wrote:

You have missed the critical points, again. I have paid far more than
my share for my kids, my family, and my responsibility.

How would anyone know? You haven't been at all forthcoming about
*your* salary, your taxes, your tax dodges, etc.

Now you're being dense. I pay far more in state taxes than the cost
of my child's education. I've covered my share many times over and
continue to do so.

If state taxes *only* went to education, you might have a point.
*Maybe*. After all, we don't know what you make, what you pay in
taxes, etc.

Claiming public education is the equivalent of welfare regardless of
a persons tax burden is just plain stupid.

Why is this any different than paying for the elderly?

I don't care if you don't believe it. You didn't know the cost of
public education, why should you understand the private options.
Let me give you a hint, private schools don't have unionized labor
and don't always require the bogus certifications public schools do.

You can talk all you want. I know that you haven't quoted any figures.
I also know how much it cost my parents to send me to private school
in the late 60s and early 70s.

Then you would pay far more than you do now, that's for sure. You not
only buy books but you buy "curriculum".

But if I didn't have to pay for the public education would it be
ess or more? That was the question and your ridiculous factless dance isn't
supporting your argument.

Apparently *your* education didn't hold you in good stead. I
8answered* your question. Here - I'll answer it again - MORE. And
you'd *still have to "pay for public education" on top of it.

No, but I am saying you should realize that you aren't paying your
share in a simple equal division of responsibility formula. Guys like
me are covering your shortfall. You should get off your ass and take a second job.

Nope. You're wrong. I'm picking up *my* share. The fact that I don't
accept the 'average" amount of government support means that I don't
have to pay as much. And I don't have to 'take a second job". I could
easily work more shifts. After all, I'm only working about 4.5 shifts
a week (and taking a couple of weeks of vacation.

You've been quacking, but I note that you haven't at all been
forthcoming about how much *you* earn, howmuch tax you pay, etc. And I
can't help it if you live in one of the most expensive places to live
and therefore have to earn far more than me just to keep up.

shrug

What percentage of the Federal budget do you use? You don't know and can't make an educated guess.

And yet *you* claim to. You're sooooo full of ****.

Why is it regressive? Everyone pays the same percentage of the
money they spend. I would pay more because I would spend more. That
doesn't sound regressive. It sounds fair.

You really *are* a stupid arrogant middle-class wonk. Ask *any*
economic expert about sales tax and they'll tell you that sales taxs
affect the lower incomes far more than they affect the wealthier. That
makes it regressive. Duh.

Funny, Dave is pretending he is now the officer he never was in the military.

Actually, I was a non-commissioned officer. And so, dismissed was
something that I used quite a bit.

What do you know about the military anyway, shirker?

MINe 109 said:

dave's not here.

"Whoizzit?"

--
Sander deWaal
Vacuum Audio Consultancy

In article ,
Sander deWaal wrote:

MINe 109 said:

dave's not here.

"Whoizzit?"

Just a half-baked reference.

Stephen

"dave weil" wrote in message
...
On 16 Jan 2004 14:04:29 -0800, (ScottW) wrote:

You have missed the critical points, again. I have paid far more than
my share for my kids, my family, and my responsibility.

How would anyone know? You haven't been at all forthcoming about
*your* salary, your taxes, your tax dodges, etc.

You expect me to send you my W-2 Dave?
Get real.
You will simply have to accept the fact that I make far more and pay
far more in taxes than you do.


Now you're being dense. I pay far more in state taxes than the cost
of my child's education. I've covered my share many times over and
continue to do so.

If state taxes *only* went to education, you might have a point.
*Maybe*. After all, we don't know what you make, what you pay in
taxes, etc.

What part of I'm one of the 20% that pays the 80% of state revenue
don't you understand? It's simple except to people who cant understand
the difference between traveling in a circle and a straight line.


Claiming public education is the equivalent of welfare regardless of
a persons tax burden is just plain stupid.

Why is this any different than paying for the elderly?

What a moron. It isn't any different. The difference comes from
how much of your share you pay. Are you a net postive or a net
negative to the government? I've clearly shown that in the simplest of
terms, you don't cover your share by a good margin.


I don't care if you don't believe it. You didn't know the cost of
public education, why should you understand the private options.
Let me give you a hint, private schools don't have unionized labor
and don't always require the bogus certifications public schools do.

You can talk all you want. I know that you haven't quoted any figures.
I also know how much it cost my parents to send me to private school
in the late 60s and early 70s.

Not much I hope or you didn't get what you paid for.


Then you would pay far more than you do now, that's for sure. You not
only buy books but you buy "curriculum".

But if I didn't have to pay for the public education would it be
ess or more? That was the question and your ridiculous factless dance
isn't
supporting your argument.

Apparently *your* education didn't hold you in good stead. I
8answered* your question. Here - I'll answer it again - MORE.

Your are wrong.

http://www.ca.lp.org/cgi-bin/intro?t=sss

Private schools spend less than half per student and provide
a superior product according to the Libertarians.
How many times do you have to be shown wrong before
you shutup and listen?

And
you'd *still have to "pay for public education" on top of it.

Irrelevant.


No, but I am saying you should realize that you aren't paying your
share in a simple equal division of responsibility formula. Guys like
me are covering your shortfall. You should get off your ass and take a
second job.

Nope. You're wrong. I'm picking up *my* share. The fact that I don't
accept the 'average" amount of government support means that I don't
have to pay as much. And I don't have to 'take a second job". I could
easily work more shifts. After all, I'm only working about 4.5 shifts
a week (and taking a couple of weeks of vacation.

Federal government budgets aren't just services. What about defense?
What about highways? What about farm subsidies? What about NASA?
You can't claim you don't have a share in these things. You can't claim
you
won't need medicare one day. You have no retirement plan and no one to
take
care of you in your elder years. Do you plan to put a gun to your head and
end
it when you can no longer work?
The government isn't banking your contributions for the time you will
need it.
It relies on the next generation to pay for you. You're obilgation is to
support
the current and preceding generation when it comes to services. You don't
get to choose to deny those obligations because you don't currently
personally use them.
You don't cover your share, it is you that is obviously slacking.


You've been quacking, but I note that you haven't at all been
forthcoming about how much *you* earn, howmuch tax you pay, etc. And I
can't help it if you live in one of the most expensive places to live
and therefore have to earn far more than me just to keep up.

Keep up with who? You? Keep dreaming Dave.
How many times your income do I need to "keep up" in Ca.?
Double, triple?
But salary doesn't matter except to people living on the edge
paycheck to paycheck.
Do you have a net value Dave? What would it be based upon?
The equity in your home? Your car? Your savings account?
Face it Dave, you're border line poverty. I'm not.
With the exception of your military service, you've slacked
over the years. Taken the easy fun way
while I've worked hard at my career.
Now that we are both beyond the mid point of our working years,
I am contemplating a very comfortable retirement. You will be
waiting tables until you are eligible for Social Security.


shrug

What percentage of the Federal budget do you use?
You don't know and can't make an educated guess.

And yet *you* claim to. You're sooooo full of ****.

I'm not the one claiming my share is less than everyone else's.
I'm the one paying your shortfall. Your defensive obfuscations
are feeble.

I've shown you to be wrong on the costs of public education.
I've shown you to be wrong on the costs of private education.
I've shown you to be wrong on your share of government expenses.
I'm trying to find something in this exchange you've gotten right Dave,
but I can't.

It is you who is dismissed from class. I hope you learned something.

ScottW

On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 12:26:50 -0800, "ScottW"
wrote:


How would anyone know? You haven't been at all forthcoming about
*your* salary, your taxes, your tax dodges, etc.

You expect me to send you my W-2 Dave?
Get real.
You will simply have to accept the fact that I make far more and pay
far more in taxes than you do.

Let's see. You ask me for details about *my* income, taxes paid,etc.
and I was forthcoming. You were not. Guess who looks shady with
something to hide? How much income do you hide from the IRS? A yearly
figure will suffice.

Frankly Scott, you are a coward. You demand of others what you're not
willing to discuss.

Plus, you don't think too clearly either...

On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 12:26:50 -0800, "ScottW"
wrote:


Then you would pay far more than you do now, that's for sure. You not
only buy books but you buy "curriculum".

But if I didn't have to pay for the public education would it be
ess or more? That was the question and your ridiculous factless dance
isn't
supporting your argument.

Apparently *your* education didn't hold you in good stead. I
*answered* your question. Here - I'll answer it again - MORE.

Your are wrong.

Gotta love that education that you suffered through.

http://www.ca.lp.org/cgi-bin/intro?t=sss

Private schools spend less than half per student and provide
a superior product according to the Libertarians.
How many times do you have to be shown wrong before
you shutup and listen?

But you aren't directly paying $7,000 for your kid to attend public
school.

You lose.

Again...

Private schools spend less than half per student and provide
a superior product according to the Libertarians.

Do you believe everything the Libertarians tell you? Private education that is
truely excellent isn't cheap. The top private schools here in the Valley cost
far more than 7200.00 a year. Check the cost of any Ivy League school. Funny
thing is our public highschool, El Camino seems to win the state scholastic
championships almost every year. Our state Universtities aren't to shabby
either. A common thing about the perception of public schools is that people
tend to say they are really bad when asked about them in general. But when
asked about the ones their own kids go to the same people tend to say they are
pretty good. I think if one did a careful study and isolated the variables to
just public vs. private schools one would not find such a big gap in costs or
effectiveness as is publically percieved.

MINe 109 said:

dave's not here.

"Whoizzit?"

Just a half-baked reference.

This happens to be one of the best fragments of Cheech and Chong :-)

- knock knock
- "Whoizzit?"
- "It's me man, Dave, open up! I've got the stuff man! Open up!!!"
- "What? Dave? Dave's not here!"

etc.

--
Sander deWaal
Vacuum Audio Consultancy

"ScottW" wrote in message
news:nUgOb.38204$zs4.25050@fed1read01...


What part of I'm one of the 20% that pays the 80% of state revenue
don't you understand? It's simple except to people who cant understand
the difference between traveling in a circle and a straight line.


Not a bad deal if you are one of the 20% making 80% of the money.




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"S888Wheel" wrote in message
...

Private schools spend less than half per student and provide
a superior product according to the Libertarians.

Do you believe everything the Libertarians tell you? Private education
that is
truely excellent isn't cheap. The top private schools here in the Valley
cost
far more than 7200.00 a year. Check the cost of any Ivy League school.
Funny
thing is our public highschool, El Camino seems to win the state
scholastic
championships almost every year. Our state Universtities aren't to shabby
either. A common thing about the perception of public schools is that
people
tend to say they are really bad when asked about them in general. But when
asked about the ones their own kids go to the same people tend to say they
are
pretty good. I think if one did a careful study and isolated the variables
to
just public vs. private schools one would not find such a big gap in costs
or
effectiveness as is publically percieved.

Really, it just depends 'where'.
Public education is not a total failure.
But it is an abysmal failure in some jurisdictions.
I favor vouchers, but only in systems where public education has failed.
Yes, vouchers can damage a good public system, bu where there is
already failure, it gives children opportunities that they
otherwise just would not have.




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In article ,
Sander deWaal wrote:

MINe 109 said:

dave's not here.

"Whoizzit?"

Just a half-baked reference.

This happens to be one of the best fragments of Cheech and Chong :-)

- knock knock
- "Whoizzit?"
- "It's me man, Dave, open up! I've got the stuff man! Open up!!!"
- "What? Dave? Dave's not here!"

etc.

Maybe not "Who's on first" or "Nudge, nudge" but not bad.

Stephen