Home |
Search |
Today's Posts |
#1
|
|||
|
|||
Hyped high end on Vandersteen 2CE speakers...need input
Hello all -
I'm running Vandersteen 2CE speakers through a cheap Alesis RA-100 amp, and I realized recently that the high end is (very) significantly hyped. I don't have another amp to try this on, but would you say it was the amp causing this hyping, or could it be the speakers? Any recommendations on a $400 flat amp? I listen to several recordings through Sennheiser HD600 premium headphones and am getting a very different HF response. Any input appreciated! RB |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
wrote:
I'm running Vandersteen 2CE speakers through a cheap Alesis RA-100 amp, and I realized recently that the high end is (very) significantly hyped. I don't have another amp to try this on, but would you say it was the amp causing this hyping, or could it be the speakers? Any recommendations on a $400 flat amp? I listen to several recordings through Sennheiser HD600 premium headphones and am getting a very different HF response. Any input appreciated! I don't know, but I can't imagine an amplifier much worse than the RA-100. I'd suggest trying the speakers with an amplifier that has some reasonable current-producing ability and see if the bottom end is not somewhat better. There are plenty of decent amps from Adcom, Parasound, and Hafler. Just about anything will be a big step up from the RA-100, but I'd suggest a used Adcom GFA-555 as a first try. Then again, maybe the speakers aren't voiced the way you want them. Without a decent amp, you'll never know, but with an amp you can at least make an informed decision. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
I'd go with the adcom. HD-600's are rolled off at 20k, check the
frequency plot on those. Many Hi-Fi consumer speakers come with the California curve, check their response graphs. Jim Williams Audio Upgrades |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
"Karl Winkler" wrote in message
oups.com wrote: Hello all - I'm running Vandersteen 2CE speakers through a cheap Alesis RA-100 amp, and I realized recently that the high end is (very) significantly hyped. I don't have another amp to try this on, but would you say it was the amp causing this hyping, or could it be the speakers? Any recommendations on a $400 flat amp? I listen to several recordings through Sennheiser HD600 premium headphones and am getting a very different HF response. Any input appreciated! I'd say the issue is your amp. I remember a few years back when the Mars stores were first getting going. I was down in their Tampa store (one of the first) and they had a demo room for monitor speakers and amps. We listened to several different amp and speaker combinations, but one amp really jumped out as sounding harsh and hyped on the top. It was a Mackie power amp. Turns out that it had a "HF lift" switch or some similar nonsense - so maybe check your amp for this kind of a thing. Most Mackie power amps have a switch that optimizes their frequency response for driving constant-directivity horns, which require response that rises at about 6 dB per octave. This can also be implmented with a small capacitor in series with the speaker, but at a considerable loss of amplifier power transfer. RA100's do't have a CD horn feature. As a rule they deliver fairly flat response into relatively easy speaker loads. RA100s don't have true balanced inputs, and don't have really good low-impedance load handling. The OP might be hearing premature clipping due to operation into a load that is outside the RA-100's limited operational envelope. If premature clipping is causing the perception of harsh respone then an amp with more robust power into low impedance loads could be a big improvement. Some more modern, and/or Hafler or QSC for example. |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
But Ted Perlman swears by the Alesis RA-100!!
From: "Ted Perlman" Newsgroups: cakewalk.audio References: HoFwe.13132$Xr6.8473@trnddc07 Subject: Replacing Tannoy Reveals? Lines: 24 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 69.231.214.116 X-Complaints-To: X-Trace: newssvr21.news.prodigy.com 1120195392 ST000 69.231.214.116 (Fri, 01 Jul 2005 01:23:12 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2005 01:23:12 EDT Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: [[O[S\WEEJWWCPH]^JKBOW@@YJ_ZTB\MV@BJ]Q]KEYUNDQUCCNSUAACY@L[ZX__HGFD]JBJNSFXTOOGA_VWY^_HG@FW_HUTHOH]TBPGCO\P^PLP^@[GLHUK@WLECKFVL^TYG[@RMWQXIWM[SDDYWNLG_G[_BWUCHFY_Y@AS@Q[B\APPF@DCZM_PG_VSCPQZM Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2005 05:23:12 GMT Alesis power amp? RA-100. I have one driving my #2 pair of NS10's. you've been doing too many doobs...... I don't smoke or do any drugs. NS-10's, great as a second source My main source, and the main source of every producer and engineer I know. Regards, Ted Perlman Website feat. music, resume, photos, press: www.tedperlman.com http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...8b838a2a34e8c2 Somebody has a tin ear!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
Thank you all for the input..
I'm beginning to think the Digi001 setup I'm running this from might have something to do with it, in light of this article: http://www.marktaw.com/recording/Hom...heDigi001.html Is this a possibility? |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
In article .com,
wrote: Thank you all for the input.. I'm beginning to think the Digi001 setup I'm running this from might have something to do with it, in light of this article: http://www.marktaw.com/recording/Hom...heDigi001.html Is this a possibility? Yes, that's also definitely a possibility. But swap it out for a decent standalone CD player for an afternoon and see. If it were me, I'd replace the amp AND get good outboard converters. But that's just me. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#9
|
|||
|
|||
wrote in message
oups.com Thank you all for the input.. I'm beginning to think the Digi001 setup I'm running this from might have something to do with it, in light of this article: http://www.marktaw.com/recording/Hom...heDigi001.html Is this a possibility? Frankly not based on just what these plots plots show, particularly http://www.marktaw.com/recording/Hom...parison/fr.png I see a +0.25 dB rise above 15 KHz, which is very likely to be inaudible, let alone being a deal breaker. If you want to get some experience with hearing the effects of small and large frequency response variations, please listen to some of the files you can download from http://www.pcabx.com/technical/dips_pips_tips/index.htm and http://www.pcabx.com/technical/low_pass/index.htm I should point out that http://www.marktaw.com/recording shows measurements on someone else's equipment operating in their environment. There are such things as equipment failtures and interface effects, and they could be affecting the sound quality where you are. |
#10
|
|||
|
|||
Scott, ya' think the RA100 sounds as bad as a Dyna ST120?
To the OP, while the 2CE should not sound treble-hyped with any good amp & source, you can make the treble quite a lot smoother & a little lower level(perceived, at least) by clipping the "diffraction ring", aka "phase plug" from in front of the tweeter dome, and then by surrounding the tweeter dome with thick felt. Of course, you need training in upholstery to get the bloody grille cloth out of the way, which starts with removing the bottom plate, then pulling what seems like a thousand staples at the bottom & then under the edges of the jack plate. Total pain in the neck. Of course, once I went to all that trouble, I'd also want to upgrade the horribly inadequate crossover parts & wiring & make the speaker sound overall a lot better. The original capacitors in all of the Vandersteens are so crappy that you'll usually blow up caps before you blow drivers if you play them just a bit too loud. -- Stephen Sank, Owner & Ribbon Mic Restorer Talking Dog Transducer Company http://stephensank.com 5517 Carmelita Drive N.E. Albuquerque, New Mexico [87111] 505-332-0336 Auth. Nakamichi & McIntosh servicer Payments preferred through Paypal.com "Scott Dorsey" wrote in message ... In article .com, wrote: Thank you all for the input.. I'm beginning to think the Digi001 setup I'm running this from might have something to do with it, in light of this article: http://www.marktaw.com/recording/Hom...heDigi001.html Is this a possibility? Yes, that's also definitely a possibility. But swap it out for a decent standalone CD player for an afternoon and see. If it were me, I'd replace the amp AND get good outboard converters. But that's just me. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#11
|
|||
|
|||
Stephen Sank wrote:
Scott, ya' think the RA100 sounds as bad as a Dyna ST120? Well, the ST120 at least has an excuse. Back then folks didn't really know the pitfalls of designing with high-gain solid-state stuff. Today they do. Well, some of them, anyway. Clearly not everyone. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#12
|
|||
|
|||
"Stephen Sank" wrote in message
... The original capacitors in all of the Vandersteens are so crappy that you'll usually blow up caps before you blow drivers if you play them just a bit too loud. No kidding. Back at the Speaker & Stereo Store I used to replace Vandersteen caps about once every eighteen months. Peace, Paul |
#13
|
|||
|
|||
|
Reply |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Forum | |||
Best way to connect multiple Speakers? | Vacuum Tubes | |||
Artists cut out the record biz | Pro Audio |