[Beta Zero]

(Trying to record a music band outdoors)

Please give me some advice-

I'm thinking of digitally recording an outdoor musical performance in
late June 2008, and I am worried that some microphones are subject to
failure, or at least an unusual performance of some kind, if the
microphones - or the wire hookups - sit around baking in the sun. If
the weather is in the mid 90s F, in the shade, and even worse in direct
sunlight, should I take precautions like shading the microphones in the
shade of an umbrella or parasol? Or am I worrying about something
that's not worrying about?

I won't have access to AC current, as I'll be running off batteries;
that also means there isn't going to be an amplifying system, and the
performers will just sit around strumming their strings, or banging
their drums, or whatever. I figured that decibel alterations will be
available to me during post production editing. (Yes, there will also
be some cameras around, but I don't want to use their microphones as
they may be around 30 or 40 feet away from the performers.)

Which microphones are best for this sort of situation? I haven't
bought them yet, and noticed that some microphones are very expensive.
My budget is $800 for microphones alone (at about $150 apiece) but I
would like to divvy that up between two separate recording systems,
where each music performer has two microphones on stands, and if the
first system fails, the second system is bound to pick something up.

So that made me wonder about something I've read about - 'balanced'
audio lines. I understand that there are 3 wires inside a typical
balanced line, two of them are for audio, and a third wire between them
is a ground. Does anybody actually strip the insulation off those
things so the grounding wire can be grounded better, say, with 8 feet
of a copper rod pounded into the ground? Or is that something nobody
does?

[Richard Crowley]

"Beta Zero" wrote in ...
(Trying to record a music band outdoors)

Please give me some advice-

I'm thinking of digitally recording an outdoor musical performance in
late June 2008, and I am worried that some microphones are subject to
failure, or at least an unusual performance of some kind, if the
microphones - or the wire hookups - sit around baking in the sun. If
the weather is in the mid 90s F, in the shade, and even worse in direct
sunlight, should I take precautions like shading the microphones in the
shade of an umbrella or parasol? Or am I worrying about something
that's not worrying about?

Lots of microphones are used in direct sunlight in hot places.
If you are operating in harsh conditions, then use microphones
that are made for field use. For example, dynamic mics are
likely less susceptable to either temporary or permanent
damage from ambient heat.

I won't have access to AC current, as I'll be running off batteries;
that also means there isn't going to be an amplifying system, and the
performers will just sit around strumming their strings, or banging
their drums, or whatever. I figured that decibel alterations will be
available to me during post production editing. (Yes, there will also
be some cameras around, but I don't want to use their microphones as
they may be around 30 or 40 feet away from the performers.)

You didn't mention what you are recording on/with?

Which microphones are best for this sort of situation? I haven't
bought them yet, and noticed that some microphones are very expensive.
My budget is $800 for microphones alone (at about $150 apiece) but I
would like to divvy that up between two separate recording systems,
where each music performer has two microphones on stands, and if the
first system fails, the second system is bound to pick something up.

The old standby Shure SM57 & 58 will likely take the heat and
they are cheap enough to have 100% backup on your budget.

So that made me wonder about something I've read about - 'balanced'
audio lines. I understand that there are 3 wires inside a typical
balanced line, two of them are for audio, and a third wire between them
is a ground.

Actually, there are two wires inside (usually twisted together)
with a shield (braided wire and/or aluminum foil) around the
outside as the shield/screen.

Does anybody actually strip the insulation off those
things so the grounding wire can be grounded better,

No. If you need access to the ground/shield, it is available
anywhere there is a connector on either end. Stripping the
insulation permanently ruins the cable.

say, with 8 feet of a copper rod pounded into the ground?
Or is that something nobody does?

If you really need to ground the system, it is typically done by
going to the equipment that the cable plugs into, and connecting
its chassis to ground. But if you are shooting with battery-
operated equipment in a place without grid power, you likely
won't need to ground anything. Unless you are in the shadow of
some broadcast transmitter or something. (In which case there
would be power! :-)

Note that there is annother newsgroup where field recording
on battery power and with cameras is the "normal" setup.
news:rec.arts.movies.production.sound I'd bet that there are
some people there who have worked in extreme temperatures.
If you ask you question there, suggest a little more technical
details (like what you are recording on, etc.)

Remember that there are outdoor summer music performances
all over the planet, many without shade and melting mics is not
something one hears much about.

[[email protected]]

On May 1, 2:59 pm, Beta Zero wrote:
In the olden days, microphones had membranous
diaphragms of some kind, and the way these things
responded to vibrations, had a lot to do with
the frequencies transmitted. I figured that a 'hot'
microphone would produce a different range of
sounds than a 'cold' one.

Uh, no.

The vibrations impinging on the diaphragm produce
corresponding eletrical signals. 1 kHz in, 1 kHz out,
simple as that.

If "a hot microphone produce a different range of
sounds than a cold one," you have a seriously broken
microphone: throw it out.

Microphone sensitivity, noise level and even relibility
can change with temperatire, but there's no physical
mechanism, which can cause an operating microphone
listening to one range of frequencies to change them
into some other range.

[Charles Tomaras]

"Beta Zero" wrote in message
...
"Beta Zero" wrote in ...
(Trying to record a music band outdoors)

Please give me some advice-

I'm thinking of digitally recording an outdoor musical performance
in late June 2008, and I am worried that some microphones are
subject to failure, or at least an unusual performance of some kind,
if the microphones - or the wire hookups - sit around baking in the
sun. If the weather is in the mid 90s F, in the shade, and even
worse in direct sunlight, should I take precautions like shading the
microphones in the shade of an umbrella or parasol? Or am I
worrying about something that's not worrying about?

Lots of microphones are used in direct sunlight in hot places.

In the olden days, microphones had membranous diaphragms of some kind,
and the way these things responded to vibrations, had a lot to do with
the frequencies transmitted. I figured that a 'hot' microphone would
produce a different range of sounds than a 'cold' one.

If you are operating in harsh conditions, then use microphones
that are made for field use. For example, dynamic mics are
likely less susceptable to either temporary or permanent
damage from ambient heat.

I won't have access to AC current, as I'll be running off batteries;
that also means there isn't going to be an amplifying system, and
the performers will just sit around strumming their strings, or
banging their drums, or whatever. I figured that decibel
alterations will be available to me during post production editing.
(Yes, there will also be some cameras around, but I don't want to
use their microphones as they may be around 30 or 40 feet away from
the performers.)

You didn't mention what you are recording on/with?

An Olympus LS-10,. Will that work? It's on order. I understood that
you can plug 4 microphones into it. The software package is iListen
for an unexpanded Mac 'mini.' I am gritting my teeth for the nerve and
reserve to buy a Marantz, it's just that it is kind of spendy, so I
have to put that off for a couple weeks. Ditto with regards to the
microphones. But all the hardware has to be in my hands by mid-June.

Which microphones are best for this sort of situation? I haven't
bought them yet, and noticed that some microphones are very
expensive. My budget is $800 for microphones alone (at about $150
apiece) but I would like to divvy that up between two separate
recording systems,

I.e., two microphones per performer.

where each music performer has two microphones on stands, and
if the first system fails, the second system is bound to pick
something up.

The old standby Shure SM57 & 58 will likely take the heat and
they are cheap enough to have 100% backup on your budget.

At a hundred bucks apiece, 8 microphones would eat up the entire
$800 budget. I was hoping the secondary microphones - attached to
the backup recording system - could be in the $50 to $60 range.
Would that be a bad idea?

snip

Note that there is annother newsgroup where field recording
on battery power and with cameras is the "normal" setup.
news:rec.arts.movies.production.sound I'd bet that there are
some people there who have worked in extreme temperatures.
If you ask you question there, suggest a little more technical
details (like what you are recording on, etc.)

Remember that there are outdoor summer music performances
all over the planet, many without shade and melting mics is not
something one hears much about.

Speaking of recording performers outdoors, I'm worried about the
whoosh effect from wind and light breezes rustling by the microphones.

Which brand of windscreen do you think works best, or fits the best,
when it comes to the Shure 57 or 58 microphones?



Sounds to me like you are on the verge of spending $800 on a bunch of nearly
pro-sumer audio equipment that you most likely won't use very often, will
disappoint with quality, and is a recipe for audio disaster. Your
equipment's resale value will also be disappointing once you realize it
didn't perform as well as you had hoped.

While on the surface what you are doing may seem simple enough, you will
find that it's really more complex than you imagine to achieve quality
results.

My suggestion both for getting a quality recording and for learning more
about quality live recording would be to either hire someone with experience
and equipment or rent professional equipment along with a thorough tutorial
on how to get the best results out of it. The reason that professional
recording engineers charge what they do for their labor and equipment is
because they have already made the mistakes you are about to make!

On the other hand, if this is just a non-important hobby type of
event....give it a shot, but don't expect to achieve top notch results with
a setup and experience level you have described above.

[jakdedert]

wrote:
On May 1, 2:59 pm, Beta Zero wrote:
In the olden days, microphones had membranous
diaphragms of some kind, and the way these things
responded to vibrations, had a lot to do with
the frequencies transmitted. I figured that a 'hot'
microphone would produce a different range of
sounds than a 'cold' one.

Uh, no.

The vibrations impinging on the diaphragm produce
corresponding eletrical signals. 1 kHz in, 1 kHz out,
simple as that.

If "a hot microphone produce a different range of
sounds than a cold one," you have a seriously broken
microphone: throw it out.

Microphone sensitivity, noise level and even relibility
can change with temperatire, but there's no physical
mechanism, which can cause an operating microphone
listening to one range of frequencies to change them
into some other range.

I don't think he's trying to say that the actual frequency in vs.
frequency out changes--just that frequency *response* could change.

I was waiting for someone more versed than I to answer this question.
Given that a lot of diaphragms are made of very thin plastic, I can
imagine that temperature might have an effect on the response. As temp
goes up, many plastics become more compliant, which would affect how
they respond to sound vibration.

I don't have any direct empirical evidence, however. I was hoping
someone else would....

jak

[Sonnova]

On Thu, 1 May 2008 12:42:39 -0700, wrote
(in article
):

On May 1, 2:59 pm, Beta Zero wrote:
In the olden days, microphones had membranous
diaphragms of some kind, and the way these things
responded to vibrations, had a lot to do with
the frequencies transmitted. I figured that a 'hot'
microphone would produce a different range of
sounds than a 'cold' one.

Uh, no.

The vibrations impinging on the diaphragm produce
corresponding eletrical signals. 1 kHz in, 1 kHz out,
simple as that.

If "a hot microphone produce a different range of
sounds than a cold one," you have a seriously broken
microphone: throw it out.

Microphone sensitivity, noise level and even relibility
can change with temperatire, but there's no physical
mechanism, which can cause an operating microphone
listening to one range of frequencies to change them
into some other range.


I think he means that a heated diaphragm might have different frequency
response characteristics than would one at normal room temperature. For
instance, the diaphragm material might expand when warm making it more
flexible. This could alter the fundamental resonance of the diaphragm making
either more or less sensitive to frequency extremes. Bottom end might improve
at the expense of the top, or, it might bring the resonant peak down in
frequency from perhaps 16 - 17 KHz to around 12 Khz causing a hump there.
After all, most modern condenser microphone diaphragms are made of Mylar with
a metallic (usually gold) film sputtered on to it. Mylar definitely gets soft
and expands when warmed.

[Sonnova]

On Thu, 1 May 2008 11:59:21 -0700, Beta Zero wrote
(in article ):

"Beta Zero" wrote in ...
(Trying to record a music band outdoors)

Please give me some advice-

I'm thinking of digitally recording an outdoor musical performance
in late June 2008, and I am worried that some microphones are
subject to failure, or at least an unusual performance of some kind,
if the microphones - or the wire hookups - sit around baking in the
sun. If the weather is in the mid 90s F, in the shade, and even
worse in direct sunlight, should I take precautions like shading the
microphones in the shade of an umbrella or parasol? Or am I
worrying about something that's not worrying about?

Lots of microphones are used in direct sunlight in hot places.

In the olden days, microphones had membranous diaphragms of some kind,
and the way these things responded to vibrations, had a lot to do with
the frequencies transmitted. I figured that a 'hot' microphone would
produce a different range of sounds than a 'cold' one.

If you are operating in harsh conditions, then use microphones
that are made for field use. For example, dynamic mics are
likely less susceptable to either temporary or permanent
damage from ambient heat.

I won't have access to AC current, as I'll be running off batteries;
that also means there isn't going to be an amplifying system, and
the performers will just sit around strumming their strings, or
banging their drums, or whatever. I figured that decibel
alterations will be available to me during post production editing.
(Yes, there will also be some cameras around, but I don't want to
use their microphones as they may be around 30 or 40 feet away from
the performers.)

You didn't mention what you are recording on/with?

An Olympus LS-10,. Will that work? It's on order. I understood that
you can plug 4 microphones into it. The software package is iListen
for an unexpanded Mac 'mini.' I am gritting my teeth for the nerve and
reserve to buy a Marantz, it's just that it is kind of spendy, so I
have to put that off for a couple weeks. Ditto with regards to the
microphones. But all the hardware has to be in my hands by mid-June.

Which microphones are best for this sort of situation? I haven't
bought them yet, and noticed that some microphones are very
expensive. My budget is $800 for microphones alone (at about $150
apiece) but I would like to divvy that up between two separate
recording systems,

I.e., two microphones per performer.

where each music performer has two microphones on stands, and
if the first system fails, the second system is bound to pick
something up.

The old standby Shure SM57 & 58 will likely take the heat and
they are cheap enough to have 100% backup on your budget.

At a hundred bucks apiece, 8 microphones would eat up the entire
$800 budget. I was hoping the secondary microphones - attached to
the backup recording system - could be in the $50 to $60 range.
Would that be a bad idea?

Try a pair of the Behringer C-2s. They come as a stereo pair of cardioid
condenser mikes complete with a T-Bar and retail for about $50/pair in their
own fitted case. They are excellent for vocals, piano, drum sets, etc. BTW,
they come with foam "wind socks" to help attenuate wind noise.

[[email protected]]

Try a pair of the Behringer *C-2s. They come as a stereo pair of cardioid
condenser mikes complete with a T-Bar and retail for about $50/pair in their
own fitted case. They are excellent for vocals, piano, drum sets, etc. BTW,
they come with foam "wind socks" to help attenuate wind noise.- Hide quoted text -


Can't say fairer than what Charlie pointed out, but maybe a couple of
those Behringers is a good idea for your first mic pair to learn what
mics are like. Apart from that, look into hiring equipment - you'll
be using much better stuff and be able to learn from the whole
experience (if you wanted to use the gig to start up your own
collection do it half-half : buy two Behringers and one better mic or
mini recorder to keep yourself and hire in the rest). It's not just
mics - good preamps are worth their weight - you can put them in front
of a cheap digital recorder, feed a line into a camera ... for less
rental money than recorders, which are more expensive (like cameras)
due to their shorter shelf life.

Wind - hired mics often come with full professional windshields, thus
saving you a fortune for the shoot - otherwise a deadcat or windjammer
over the foam windshield will be of great benefit at a low cost (or a
rycote softie at the medium range for quality and price)

Jez Adamson

[Charles Tomaras]

"Beta Zero" wrote in message
...
Charles Tomaras wrote:
Sounds to me like you are on the verge of spending $800 on a bunch of
nearly pro-sumer audio equipment that you most likely won't use very
often, will disappoint with quality, and is a recipe for audio
disaster.

Thanks for the vote of confidence.

Your equipment's resale value will also be disappointing once you
realize it didn't perform as well as you had hoped.

Nope, I don't plan on reselling. The next major project is an indie
movie in late August. I need some music for when the actors are
driving along in their car, and they turn on the radio. So I thought
I'd foley in some music.

While on the surface what you are doing may seem simple enough, you
will find that it's really more complex than you imagine to achieve
quality results.

I want to keep the June budget down to $3,000 before I go to the
August budget, something like five to ten times that. (Sort of makes
me sound like a cheapskate, huh?)

My suggestion both for getting a quality recording and for learning
more about quality live recording

Well, quality live recording is in a recording room, but I don't mind a
little bit of background noise by shooting it out in a park, or some
distant location in the National Forest.

would be to either hire someone with experience and equipment or rent
professional equipment along with a thorough tutorial on how to get
the best results out of it. The reason that professional recording
engineers charge what they do for their labor and equipment is because
they have already made the mistakes you are about to make!

Well, I have to make the mistakes sometime, and I thought, "Well, what
the heck, why not this summer?" That's why $800 on microphones,
something like $500 on a digital recorder or two (the H4 looked very
tempting), and then another $500 on hiring a band to play in some
remote location, and then a little bit more money as a slush fund,
depending on what happens.

On the other hand, if this is just a non-important hobby type of
event....give it a shot, but don't expect to achieve top notch
results with a setup and experience level you have described above.

Okay.


Best of luck to you. You posted on a professional sound newsgroup asking for
professional opinions but apparently you are just looking for someone to
reinforce and support you in your completely inexperienced totally green
ideas about recording sound with the cheapest equipment money can buy. Print
this out and save it because if you do continue in this field and figure
things out you will look back in a number of years on this message and have
a good laugh at your naivety.

[Arny Krueger]

"Beta Zero" wrote in message


(Trying to record a music band outdoors)

If you want that gig to turn out well, first learn how to record a band
before the real show comes up.

I'm thinking of digitally recording an outdoor musical
performance in late June 2008, and I am worried that some
microphones are subject to failure, or at least an
unusual performance of some kind, if the microphones - or
the wire hookups - sit around baking in the sun.

Very unlikely. IME microphones are pretty durable period, and especially
resistent to high temperatures. The people who make microphones know that
they get carried around in cars and trucks and stored in hot places, and
used in hot places.

I'd be more worried about rain or high winds.

If the weather is in the mid 90s F, in the shade, and even worse
in direct sunlight, should I take precautions like
shading the microphones in the shade of an umbrella or
parasol? Or am I worrying about something that's not
worrying about?

You're majoring in minors.

I won't have access to AC current, as I'll be running off
batteries; that also means there isn't going to be an
amplifying system,

The absence of a SR system is the good news. Getting a good recording with a
SR system going at the same time is IME much more difficult. I know how
difficult it is - I do it all the time.

and the performers will just sit
around strumming their strings, or banging their drums,
or whatever.

There's problem number one - your leading challenge to getting balanced
sound it trying to get enough strings and not too much drums. Acoustic drums
tend to be very loud.

I figured that decibel alterations will be
available to me during post production editing.

If you want flexibility during post, you are commiting yourself to
multitracking. That means lots of mics and one independent recorded track
per mic.

(Yes, there will also be some cameras around, but I don't want
to use their microphones as they may be around 30 or 40
feet away from the performers.)

Good thought. If you do distant micing, you are stuck with whatever mix
nature decided to create for you that day.

Which microphones are best for this sort of situation?

The general rule of thumb is the less mics the better. If you are outside,
chances are good you won't be fighting the room, but chances are also good
that you won't have a room that supporting the bass in any way.

I haven't bought them yet, and noticed that some
microphones are very expensive.

You said a mouth full.

My budget is $800 for
microphones alone (at about $150 apiece) but I would like
to divvy that up between two separate recording systems,
where each music performer has two microphones on stands,
and if the first system fails, the second system is bound
to pick something up.

In fact nobody working at your level doubles up on microphones. Mics are a
lot more reliable than that. Frankly, the most likely source of failure in
this project is you and your obvious lack of understanding of and experience
with recording.

Recording is like learning to play an instrument, the secret to good results
is practice, practice, practice. No secret at all. I've been recording
pretty intensively for six years, I've made several thousand live recordings
of 100's of groups and I'm still making mistakes and suboptimal choices that
are totally clear with 20-20 hindsight. Of course I do get a few things
right and have many satifisfied customers, but I don't fool me. ;-)

So that made me wonder about something I've read about -
'balanced' audio lines. I understand that there are 3
wires inside a typical balanced line, two of them are for
audio, and a third wire between them is a ground.

Yup, that's a standard XLR mic cable. Thing is XLR connectors have a large
degree of inherent safety. Anything with power is enclosed, whether
connected or not.

Does
anybody actually strip the insulation off those things so
the grounding wire can be grounded better, say, with 8
feet of a copper rod pounded into the ground? Or is that
something nobody does?

I've never grounded a live recording gig through anything but the safety
ground of the power supply. If running totally on batteries, then what's to
ground?

If you're running battery-powered equipment, then the largest voltage around
is the 48 volt phantom supply which is usually totally enclosed in a
conductive shield every where it goes. I think you can give yourself a
noticable tingle with 48 VDC if you are hot and sweaty, but its pretty darn
safe. Dry skin and 48 VDC is a nit, you can't feel a thing and it isn't
going to even make you tingle, let alone hurt you. Besides, its shielded
everywhere it goes if you use standard cables and connectors.

[Tim Gray]

It sounds like you've gotten the advice to get a professional for
this. I can't argue with that (especially since I'm not one).
However, being one who does this stuff for fun, I understand why you
want to do it yourself.

In that case, I don't think $800 is really enough. My advice to you
would be to rent some gear. I don't know what kind of music is being
performed, but for the conditions you describe, I'd go for a pair of
Sennheiser MKH mics. In the nature recording world, they are the goto
mics due to their robustness and extremely low noise floor. In RAMPS,
you will hear people argue the merits of Schoeps mics (well, not so
much argue as sing) and their susceptibility to humidity (that's an
actual argument). You never hear them question MKHs ability to
withstand the environment. They have a unique construction and
operation principle which helps in this area.

Which mics? I'd go with a 50 + 30, or a 40 + 30 OR 2 20's OR 2 40's.
Depends on what you're recording and how you like to record. The MS
setup of a 50/40 plus a 30, which is a hyper or cardio + a fig 8,
makes for easy location sound - tuck it in a Rycote and you're good to
go. The pair of 40s (cardios) provides many options for stereo
recording (XY, NOS, ORTF, etc) but is more difficult to for wind
protection. Which you will want. Lastly, you could do spaced omnis
with a pair of 20's.

If the next project is a movie, I'd say the 50 + 30 is the best bet,
because then you have a top of class hyper to work with for dialogue.
Oh yeah, thats assuming you can buy.

The only problem with the above plan is that we're taking $2k in mics
(at least), $600 for the wind protection, and we haven't even started
talking about recording devices. Which is why I say rent. If its for
fun, and you don't have the money, as much as a backup is nice, you're
going to have to run naked. And if you lose it, you lose it. If you
can scrape together something, go with some cheap dynamics as stated
(SM57 over a 58) and someones laptop + USB/firewire interface.

By the way, this is the exact route I took (minus the renting). I
started off with a pair of Schoeps, a couple caps, and a computer
based recording device as my first quality setup, but eventually sold
the Schoeps, obtained a small assortment of MKHs (30, 50, 60) and a
Sound Devices recorder, and now have quite a lot of fun doing film
sound, live music recording, and nature recording.

[Oleg Kaizerman(gebe)]

you can find used hhb dat recorder ( non tc ) with good
preamps-300-400usd
( i dont think anyone on that forum would have any objection as used
it for
years :-))

add good stereo mic as avanton for 600
http://www.avantelectronics.com/CK-4...0FET%20MIC.htm



and you can record your band relatively cheap

[Ty Ford]

On Thu, 1 May 2008 14:59:21 -0400, Beta Zero wrote
(in article ):

"Beta Zero" wrote in ...
(Trying to record a music band outdoors)

Please give me some advice-

I'm thinking of digitally recording an outdoor musical performance
in late June 2008, and I am worried that some microphones are
subject to failure, or at least an unusual performance of some kind,
if the microphones - or the wire hookups - sit around baking in the
sun. If the weather is in the mid 90s F, in the shade, and even
worse in direct sunlight, should I take precautions like shading the
microphones in the shade of an umbrella or parasol? Or am I
worrying about something that's not worrying about?

I once had a Countryman EMW go dead on a shoot at the Baltimore Orioles
stadium. It was about 100 degrees F. (the thermometer in the sun said 112!)

Other EMW's were OK. When I got back home, the mic was fine and has been OK
since then.

Regards,


Ty Ford



--Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services
Acting and Voiceover Demos http://www.tyford.com
Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RZJ9MptZmU

[Don Pearce]

Ty Ford wrote:
On Thu, 1 May 2008 14:59:21 -0400, Beta Zero wrote
(in article ):

"Beta Zero" wrote in ...
(Trying to record a music band outdoors)

Please give me some advice-

I'm thinking of digitally recording an outdoor musical performance
in late June 2008, and I am worried that some microphones are
subject to failure, or at least an unusual performance of some kind,
if the microphones - or the wire hookups - sit around baking in the
sun. If the weather is in the mid 90s F, in the shade, and even
worse in direct sunlight, should I take precautions like shading the
microphones in the shade of an umbrella or parasol? Or am I
worrying about something that's not worrying about?

I once had a Countryman EMW go dead on a shoot at the Baltimore Orioles
stadium. It was about 100 degrees F. (the thermometer in the sun said 112!)

Other EMW's were OK. When I got back home, the mic was fine and has been OK
since then.

Regards,


Ty Ford



I always thought those things would withstand anything short of nuclear
attack. Did it have a black finish, by any chance?

d

[jakdedert]

Ty Ford wrote:
On Thu, 1 May 2008 14:59:21 -0400, Beta Zero wrote
(in article ):

"Beta Zero" wrote in ...
(Trying to record a music band outdoors)

Please give me some advice-

I'm thinking of digitally recording an outdoor musical performance
in late June 2008, and I am worried that some microphones are
subject to failure, or at least an unusual performance of some kind,
if the microphones - or the wire hookups - sit around baking in the
sun. If the weather is in the mid 90s F, in the shade, and even
worse in direct sunlight, should I take precautions like shading the
microphones in the shade of an umbrella or parasol? Or am I
worrying about something that's not worrying about?

I once had a Countryman EMW go dead on a shoot at the Baltimore Orioles
stadium. It was about 100 degrees F. (the thermometer in the sun said 112!)

Other EMW's were OK. When I got back home, the mic was fine and has been OK
since then.


On a (perhaps) related note; I once had a Soundcraft Venue console get
hinky on me at the 'Memphis in May' Festival. Basic operation was still
functional--IOW, it passed signal and sounded okay--but the mutes and
solo functions went completely wonky. Solo became increasingly
distorted, then went completely out. Mutes were intermittent.

Shading the console from the direct sun solved all problems, eventually.

jak

Regards,


Ty Ford



--Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services
Acting and Voiceover Demos http://www.tyford.com
Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RZJ9MptZmU

[Richard Crowley]

"Beta Zero" wrote ...
Charles Tomaras wrote:
Your equipment's resale value will also be disappointing once you
realize it didn't perform as well as you had hoped.

Nope, I don't plan on reselling. The next major project is an indie
movie in late August. I need some music for when the actors are
driving along in their car, and they turn on the radio. So I thought
I'd foley in some music.

Note that the kind of equipment (particularly microphones) you
need for film/video production is very different than what is best
for recording music ensembles. If I had to compromose, I think
I would buy equipment suitable for film/video production and use
it for the music/SFX collection.

[Sonnova]

On Thu, 1 May 2008 23:34:38 -0700, Beta Zero wrote
(in article ):

Charles Tomaras wrote:
Sounds to me like you are on the verge of spending $800 on a bunch of
nearly pro-sumer audio equipment that you most likely won't use very
often, will disappoint with quality, and is a recipe for audio
disaster.

Thanks for the vote of confidence.

Your equipment's resale value will also be disappointing once you
realize it didn't perform as well as you had hoped.

Nope, I don't plan on reselling. The next major project is an indie
movie in late August. I need some music for when the actors are
driving along in their car, and they turn on the radio. So I thought
I'd foley in some music.

While on the surface what you are doing may seem simple enough, you
will find that it's really more complex than you imagine to achieve
quality results.

I want to keep the June budget down to $3,000 before I go to the
August budget, something like five to ten times that. (Sort of makes
me sound like a cheapskate, huh?)

My suggestion both for getting a quality recording and for learning
more about quality live recording

Well, quality live recording is in a recording room, but I don't mind a
little bit of background noise by shooting it out in a park, or some
distant location in the National Forest.

would be to either hire someone with experience and equipment or rent
professional equipment along with a thorough tutorial on how to get
the best results out of it. The reason that professional recording
engineers charge what they do for their labor and equipment is because
they have already made the mistakes you are about to make!

Well, I have to make the mistakes sometime, and I thought, "Well, what
the heck, why not this summer?" That's why $800 on microphones,
something like $500 on a digital recorder or two (the H4 looked very
tempting), and then another $500 on hiring a band to play in some
remote location, and then a little bit more money as a slush fund,
depending on what happens.

On the other hand, if this is just a non-important hobby type of
event....give it a shot, but don't expect to achieve top notch
results with a setup and experience level you have described above.

Okay.


Look, good recording equipment doesn't have to cost an arm and a leg anymore.
There are a number of fine microphones selling for under $100 each. There are
excellent sounding mixers with ultra-quiet mike preamps available for
incredibly cheap prices nowadays. In fact, one can get a full-featured
excellent sounding 4-microphones-in, 2- channels out mixers for less than
$100 from companies such as Alesis, TASCAM, Behringer, Mackie, Rotel, etc.
These are far quieter and better sounding than state-of-the-art mixing
consoles of a generation or so ago (of course, the more microphone inputs one
needs the more the mixers cost). Microphone cables are likewise cheap
nowadays with cables from Shure and others starting at less than $10 for a
20-25 ft length. Microphone stands are likewise cheap. The light, foldable
On-Stage "Euroboom" stand complete with boom can be bought on-line for around
$20 each. These stands are excellent. They're all black, don't have the heavy
cast-iron bases of traditional stands and four of them can be carried in one
hand (folded up, of course).

It's truly a golden era for amateur/ semi-pro recording. The recordings that
I have made using just the sort of equipment listed above are far better than
anything one can buy commercially. With no signal processing and no
compression or limiting, one gets the entire dynamic range that digital is
capable of (and which commercial recordings NEVER give you). Careful mike
placement will reward you with the kind of sound-stage and image depth that's
rare to non-existent in commercial recordings. I find the results very
satisfying and the process rewarding.

[Charles Tomaras]

"Beta Zero" wrote in message
...
You posted on a professional sound newsgroup asking for professional
opinions

You sure about that?

Can you post the charters for the relevant newsgroups offended?

Maybe you should preface your next round of cross posting with "I'm a novice
looking to do amatuer recording of some music in the woods."


but apparently you are just looking for someone to reinforce
and support you in your completely inexperienced totally green
ideas about recording sound with the cheapest equipment money
can buy.

No, I'm just trying to save money without going hogwild overboard
buying stuff. (People who skimp on buying things, tend to impress
me. They really do.)


Ok, go for it. Buy the least amount of cheap prosumer gear you can afford,
do not heed any professional opinions and expect professional results with
sub $100 microphones, lavs hanging over stands, cheap preamps, foam
windscreens, light weight stands etc. No need to monitor in the field you'll
have two cheap mics and two cheap preamps per musician and will have someone
else mix it all later in some unnamed open source application on a Linux
box.

Please come back and cross post again to the same newsgroups and let us know
how it worked out for you.

[Richard Crowley]

"Charles Tomaras" wrote ...
"Beta Zero" wrote ...
You posted on a professional sound newsgroup asking for professional
opinions

You sure about that?

You appear to be the only one unsure.

Can you post the charters for the relevant newsgroups offended?

They are in the usual places to be viewed by anyone interested.
It appears unlikely that if we did your research for you, it would
change your attitude or behavior.