[George M. Middius]

Mark A said:

Poopie, you're not the brightest bulb in the box, but even you should
know better than to trying having a serious exchange with a whack job.

You are very adept at throwing garbage and name-calling instead of rational
argument

Thank you for the compliment, Mr. Whacko.

[Peter Wieck]

On Dec 15, 11:31 am, Andre Jute wrote:

I'm ashamed to have you on a conference I contribute to.

Is *THAT* what you call it? Coulda fooled me.

And you are far more of a fool if you believe your little food/
healthcare/education crap. It is a brutal, ugly, unhappy fact that 20%
of the world lives as it does requires that the other 80% lives as it
does. It is certainly possible to do everything you state - for a few
months. After which point all the available resources to that end
would be entirely exhausted. The concept of piping clean water from
southern New York (in considerable surplus at this point) to North
Africa (in similar-quantity deficit) does boggle the mind some. And
ground water is a VERY limited resource. Either that or shift
populations. We haven't gotten around to protein, electricity,
fertilizers, delivery systems, educational materials, and on and on.

It is an unhappy reality that Freedom and Democracy (with capital
letters) are luxuries of the very rich, extremely recent developments
in human history, incredibly fragile concepts, and mightily
threatened. Democracy in any meaningful way did not even exist in the
US until 1920 (women finally got the vote) and some would say 1965
(The Voting Rights Act). That is how "recent" its practice - and how
soon we forget.

Now, of course, you could "equalize" said resources across the board.
Thereby raising the 80% and reducing the 20% - after the initial
infrastructure problems are addressed. The difficulty there is getting
that 20% to go along with it, and getting the 80% to accept so little
(both in increase and in hope). So, that something is possible in
concept does not make it possible within the limits of human nature.

This sort of mindless feel-good tripe puts me in mind of those who
wish to exploit the oil reserves in the Alaskan wilderness (AKA:
ANWR). There are billions of barrels of oil in the ground there - no
argument. And they are readily exploitable with present technology.
However:

a) It would take ~10 years and ~$12 billion dollars to do so.
b) After which the entirety of the reserves would last the US (at
present consumption levels) approximately nineteen (19) months based
on USDOE Estimates.
c) Double that if you will by assuming reduced consumption.

All sorts of happy lip-service may be paid to all sorts of hack/
crackpot ideas. But the bottom line does not alter one whit. Whether
it is by man-made efforts, natural cycles, accident or divine design
and intervention, the world *is* changing such that our grandchildren
will live very different lives than we have - they will have no choice
at all in the matter. We have essentially two choices - we leave them
something to build on, or we leave them nothing much at all but the
consequences of our greed.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

[John Byrns]

In article
,
Peter Wieck wrote:

All sorts of happy lip-service may be paid to all sorts of hack/
crackpot ideas. But the bottom line does not alter one whit. Whether
it is by man-made efforts, natural cycles, accident or divine design
and intervention, the world *is* changing such that our grandchildren
will live very different lives than we have - they will have no choice
at all in the matter. We have essentially two choices - we leave them
something to build on, or we leave them nothing much at all but the
consequences of our greed.

But your grandchildren are presumably part of the 20%, say you "leave
them something to build on", what do you plan on doing for the other 80%?


Regards,

John Byrns

--
Surf my web pages at, http://fmamradios.com/

[Peter Wieck]

On Dec 15, 5:53 pm, John Byrns wrote:

But your grandchildren are presumably part of the 20%, say you "leave
them something to build on", what do you plan on doing for the other 80%?

John:

I will recognize that they exist, that they are are part of the reason
that me and mine are part of the 20%. And I will do my level best to
see to it that my grandchildren are well educated, understand that
they will only remain as part of the 20% if they are smarter, faster,
better educated, more productive, more thoughtful, and worthy of that
position.

What I will not do is deny the position that my family has made for
itself nor the cost to the rest of the world that it should remain
so.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

[Eeyore]

Andre Jute wrote:

For the money wasted to no good purpose if Kyoto were implemented,
every hungry person in the world can be fed, given basic health care,
clean water and a primary education, which in turn will take him out
of the slough of self-perpetuating poverty.

Goodness.

Occasioanally you do actually make some sense.

Mind you, you might need to get rid of a few African dictators to do much
for the darker parts of that blighted continent.

Graham

[Stephen[_2_]]

"Peter Wieck" wrote in message
...
On Dec 15, 11:31 am, Andre Jute wrote:

I'm ashamed to have you on a conference I contribute to.

Is *THAT* what you call it? Coulda fooled me.

And you are far more of a fool if you believe your little food/
healthcare/education crap. It is a brutal, ugly, unhappy fact that 20%
of the world lives as it does requires that the other 80% lives as it
does. It is certainly possible to do everything you state - for a few
months. After which point all the available resources to that end
would be entirely exhausted. The concept of piping clean water from
southern New York (in considerable surplus at this point) to North
Africa (in similar-quantity deficit) does boggle the mind some. And
ground water is a VERY limited resource. Either that or shift
populations. We haven't gotten around to protein, electricity,
fertilizers, delivery systems, educational materials, and on and on.

It is an unhappy reality that Freedom and Democracy (with capital
letters) are luxuries of the very rich, extremely recent developments
in human history, incredibly fragile concepts, and mightily
threatened. Democracy in any meaningful way did not even exist in the
US until 1920 (women finally got the vote) and some would say 1965
(The Voting Rights Act). That is how "recent" its practice - and how
soon we forget.

Now, of course, you could "equalize" said resources across the board.
Thereby raising the 80% and reducing the 20% - after the initial
infrastructure problems are addressed. The difficulty there is getting
that 20% to go along with it, and getting the 80% to accept so little
(both in increase and in hope). So, that something is possible in
concept does not make it possible within the limits of human nature.

This sort of mindless feel-good tripe puts me in mind of those who
wish to exploit the oil reserves in the Alaskan wilderness (AKA:
ANWR). There are billions of barrels of oil in the ground there - no
argument. And they are readily exploitable with present technology.
However:

a) It would take ~10 years and ~$12 billion dollars to do so.
b) After which the entirety of the reserves would last the US (at
present consumption levels) approximately nineteen (19) months based
on USDOE Estimates.
c) Double that if you will by assuming reduced consumption.

All sorts of happy lip-service may be paid to all sorts of hack/
crackpot ideas. But the bottom line does not alter one whit. Whether
it is by man-made efforts, natural cycles, accident or divine design
and intervention, the world *is* changing such that our grandchildren
will live very different lives than we have - they will have no choice
at all in the matter. We have essentially two choices - we leave them
something to build on, or we leave them nothing much at all but the
consequences of our greed.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

I told you to stop berating people or I'll tell them about a 13 year old boy
who got lost in the woods.

S

[[email protected]]

On Jan 29, 1:38*am, "Stephen" wrote:

I told you to stop berating people or I'll tell them about a 13 year old boy
who got lost in the woods.


Pillock:

DO tell. Please.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA