George Orwell wrote:

Turner wrote:

The owner of the horns I mentioned could have made mistakes with the woodwork.
Looking at the box plans may not have indicated where he may have gone wrong.

If you knew anything about horns at all, Turner, you wouldnt even need to see the plans. I suspect that horn is the wrong length and the required compression chamber is missing or wrongly shaped. In addition the throat may be the wrong size for the driver active area. The plans will tell you everything your destructive impulse with the saw will fail to tell you or for that matter anyone else as ignorant about horns as you. I note you have not replied to my observation that you lied about which driver is in this horn, either Fostek or Lowther.

I beg to differ again. I *would* still need to see the plans, even if I knew as much about them as you claim to know.
If we are to discuss horns, please remember I come to the discussion with two things, first, an open mind,
hoping that one day I will hear great music from horns,
and second, a history of sad auditions of horns, where I went away dismayed,
knowing all I heard was produced by articles only fit to be firewood, and all too sadly
backed up by the measurements I made, and most recently 2 weeks ago, where
I spent 3 hrs listening and measuring to this man's speakers.

The horns belonging to my aquaintance were made at home and as he said accoding to a
"recipe I found on the net for Lowthers." The drivers are a very handsome looking pair of
Lowthers with cream cones, about 8" dia, and with largish "whizzer" cones.
I didn't witness the box building efforts with the mdf, so lord knows exactly what is wrong with them.
I have not been invited to investgate further, and I am a very busy man.


I brought horns into picture in support of the idea one has to be careful
to come to sweeping conclusions based on "how it sounds"
without having got the basic engineering right.

Do tell, dear accident-prone old turneroid, who it is you suspect or accuse of coming to sweeping conclusions based on "how it sounds" without having got the basic engineering right. Please do not be shy in coming forward and putting a name to these dark mutterings. If you require a working example of how such a delation is delivered, look up the posts in which I explained in detail to everyone why your speakers sound like **** and your amps are undistinguished, or my post the last time you paraded this crap in which I listed twenty random facts and procedures you dont know about horn design, each of which by itself is enough to ruin any horn you build or mess with.

Ah so now that we have moved to only 3 exchanges within a discussion, you are quite incorrectly
calling all my efforts a lot of ****, and denigrating anything I may say which stimulates intelligent conversation,
which is impossible with you for longer than 3 exchanges, without your tone descending into
insult, and insult to the intellectual process itself.

About this time last year, you gained everyone's attention as being the most objectionable obnoxious poster
on the internet, and very nearly everyone promptly killfiled you so they wouldn't see your
defamatory postings, which contained barely any technical merit.

These attacks lasted for the month before Cristmas, then you went away, and nobody
missed you. I have been here full time, and I don't plan to leave, so if you wanna
defame all my creations yet again, then you'll be wasting your time, and helping to ruin the tone of a
fine newsgroup that you will never be entirely welcome.
The year before was also a time when nobody welcomed your
kind of Chistmas spirit, as I recall, I went through it all smelling of rotten vegetables,
because you had spent such energy whipping me with wet lettuce leaves.

Do I make myself clear?

Now if you wanna make yourself clear, then learn some manners.

We would welcome any input on horns you may like to make, but if wrapped
like a delicious sandwich, but containing **** inside, then get out of this group,
you won't be welcome one bit, just like it has happened in the past so often

If you do in fact know all about building decent horns, perhaps it'd be better
for you to write a book, and without the entirely undeserved personal poison you are uniquely
notorious for when you have tried to hang out here.


Meanwhile I survive OK building what my customers regard as extremely fine sounding gear,
and I have so many orders I can hardly keep up with them.


Once you name this audiophool in our midst who has the temerity to trust his ears, I will be first in line to give him a good kicking for daring to think for himself.

I will not expose the names of anyone I know to the kind of thuggery which you would perform on
him or me, ever.

The guy with the horns has good ears, but no technical understanding, and wouldn't
be able to design anything at all unless all the dimensions or circuit was spelled out for him;
he's just another diyer, and a very nice guy, and very dissapointed with his own efforts.
He's the second guy I have known here in the last 4 years to build horns fit only for firewood.
The other guy used Fostex, very expensive drivers that looked very much like
speaker drivers from a 1955 radio.
This guy was *very* technically capable, and earns his living as a conservator
in the Aust War Memorial, where he restores Lancaster bombers and Mesherscmitts, etc.
He was also dissapointed after so much effort.


Or perhaps I should drop a few measuring instruments on him from a dizzy height. Really, we cant have these people running around building SET amps with transformers they didnt buy from Turner, and playing them through horn speakers which Turner doesnt even make and about which he doesnt even know enough to posture on the net as an expert. And probably measuring these unauthorized SET amps and horn speakers with all kinds of instruments, then keeping quiet about all that development work and pretending it is all down to art. Never do. Never!

Unfortunately you have a childish mind's grasp of the situation, you mock, but
we are laughing at your immaturity.

You could have been wise, but you present as the fool.

Andre Jute
Throw that mangy wannebe lion back in. This Christian is hungry.
(And did he not have a gang of yesmen? Or did I eat them already?)

I see you coming Jute, and I don't like the smell.

No doubt there will be a time soon where I'll just have to ignore you, like nearly
everyone else, lest I get too much mud all over myself.

Patrick Turner.

Patrick Turner said:

This guy was *very* technically capable, and earns his living as a conservator
in the Aust War Memorial, where he restores Lancaster bombers and Mesherscmitts, etc.
He was also dissapointed after so much effort.

What's a Messerschmitt doing in an Oz museum?
Surely the Japanese had their own planes?

--
Sander de Waal
" SOA of a KT88? Sufficient. "

Sander deWaal wrote:

Patrick Turner said:

This guy was *very* technically capable, and earns his living as a conservator
in the Aust War Memorial, where he restores Lancaster bombers and Mesherscmitts, etc.
He was also dissapointed after so much effort.

What's a Messerschmitt doing in an Oz museum?
Surely the Japanese had their own planes?

Well its a long story, but we have a bit of old german war gear.
Australia also helped Britain bomb Germany, and many died in that endeavour,
and I see the Queen is to apologise formerly for Dresden etc,
which as usual is about 60 fukkin years too late.
I think we might have a Japanese zero, not sure.
The Lancaster is definately never to be flown again,
lest it be planted; its happened to a lot of old relics
that should have been retired to a museum.

See the link at

http://www.awm.gov.au/virtualtour/anzac_hall.htm

Patrick Turner.







--
Sander de Waal
" SOA of a KT88? Sufficient. "

Anonymous wrote:

Patrick Turner wrote:

No doubt there will be a time soon where Ill just have to ignore you

Ive been explaining to you for three years now, you boneheaded bricklay=
er, that I want you to put me in your killfile. Even the remnant of your =
own gang has been praying out loud for you to get some sense. Lord Valve,=
who despises you as heartily as I do, has most kindly taken time out fro=
m shopping the gun catalogues to explain to you that you cannot win. Ever=
yone is bored ****less by your futile attempts to dragoon me into your na=
rrow, aridly joyless view of hi-fi. I am glad that at last you are gettin=
g the message. Put me in your killfile today. Youll feel so much better w=
hen you can no longer see me talking about Class A amps, SET, point sourc=
e speakers, electrostats, originality, art, joy, and other gear and conce=
pts you do not have the hang of and never will get the hang of because yo=
u are the wrong sort of person. RAT will be a more agreeable place withou=
t your squealing every time I step on your tail.

I don't have a kill file, I am a realist, and I deal with all the muck as=
it comes along.
I like to see every single post of the news group.
I have no intention of ever avoiding entirely the incorrect
technical and personal assesments you make repeatedly, and I hope to be s=
till here in 30 years,
so you better get used to it, or just **** off.

Its no good trying to snuggle up behind Lord Valve, and I don't care what=
he feels about my presence
here. The fact is I agree with LV about many tube issues, but he and I di=
sagree on politics,
but we don't need to conduct a daily war over it.
And we surely don't stoop to denigrating each other's business activities=
=2E
Only morons do that.
LV has an extremely small amount to say on audio technical matters.
So take a leaf out of LV's book, and unless you are gonna show
some real style around here, and stick with the audio issues only, then s=
hut the **** up.

Quite a few of my clients and friends use SET amps and some use horns, or=
try to,
and all the agreable things you take so seriously are matters which I als=
o take seriously.

In your last post you laid the boot into me and my business ( which has n=
ever done it any harm )
so my reaction is to warn everyone
about what you are like, since we get a few newcomers here who just don't=
realise
what an arsole you are when they disagree with you, or challenge the vali=
dity of your
opinions.

Andre Jute has not the slightest monopoly on correct audio thinking, wu, =
or anything
else, he just has his own opinion, and he is just another little human be=
ing like each of
the rest of us who is trying to battle his way through life,
only he does it with such a grating style that nearly everyone is mightly=

peeved to witness it.

I strongly suggest Andre write a book about tube audio and horn speakers,=
and thus be useful
to allow folks to obtain great sound from horns.
A book sells for $40, so there's a silver lining to such an endeavour.

He says he knows so much more than I do on the subject, so let him proove=
it,
lest we all think he's a dunce.

Patrick Turner.

Patrick Turner said:

See the link at

http://www.awm.gov.au/virtualtour/anzac_hall.htm

Wow! There's even a Me163 and Me262!
I doubt if one of those could be found in Europe........

--
Sander de Waal
" SOA of a KT88? Sufficient. "

Sander deWaal wrote:

Patrick Turner said:

See the link at

http://www.awm.gov.au/virtualtour/anzac_hall.htm

Wow! There's even a Me163 and Me262!
I doubt if one of those could be found in Europe........

They even have a V2 rocket...

I ain't been able to sneak in and pinch the NOS ECC83 telefunkens in the

guidance system, yet... :-)

Patrick Turner.




--
Sander de Waal
" SOA of a KT88? Sufficient. "

Sander deWaal wrote:

Patrick Turner said:

See the link at

http://www.awm.gov.au/virtualtour/anzac_hall.htm

Wow! There's even a Me163 and Me262!
I doubt if one of those could be found in Europe........

--
Sander de Waal
" SOA of a KT88? Sufficient. "

You will find an ME262 at the Deutches Museum in Munchen
& many other great aircraft. Cheers, John Stewart

Patrick Turner said:

They even have a V2 rocket...

I ain't been able to sneak in and pinch the NOS ECC83 telefunkens in the
guidance system, yet... :-)

The small signal tube of choice for Wehrmacht and Luftwaffe was
probably the TFK RV12P2000. Roehre Verstaerker 12 Volts Pentode type
2000.
Similar to an acorn tube.

Maybe one of our German friends can shed some light on this?

--
Sander de Waal
" SOA of a KT88? Sufficient. "

John Stewart said:

You will find an ME262 at the Deutches Museum in Munchen
& many other great aircraft. Cheers, John Stewart

Thanks for the info, I'll be in Germany this spring and I think I'll
go visit this museum.

--
Sander de Waal
" SOA of a KT88? Sufficient. "

Sander deWaal wrote:

John Stewart said:

You will find an ME262 at the Deutches Museum in Munchen
& many other great aircraft. Cheers, John Stewart

Thanks for the info, I'll be in Germany this spring and I think I'll
go visit this museum.

--
Sander de Waal
" SOA of a KT88? Sufficient. "

While working for Rohde & Schwarz I visited the Deutsches Museum
at least five times during my trips to Munich. It can't be beat for
Science
& Technology. Not only aircraft but a great history of developments
leading to where we are today.

A must visit for engineering folks while visiting Munich.

Cheers, John Stewart

John Stewart remarked:

: Sander deWaal wrote:
:
: John Stewart said:
:
: You will find an ME262 at the Deutches Museum in Munchen
: & many other great aircraft. Cheers, John Stewart

See (also in link to Quicktime panorama) for a mention of ME262
http://www.deutsches-museum.de/ausst...t/e_luftf2.htm

: Thanks for the info, I'll be in Germany this spring and I think I'll
: go visit this museum.
:
: --
: Sander de Waal
: " SOA of a KT88? Sufficient. "
:
: While working for Rohde & Schwarz I visited the Deutsches Museum
: at least five times during my trips to Munich. It can't be beat for
: Science
: & Technology. Not only aircraft but a great history of developments
: leading to where we are today.
:
: A must visit for engineering folks while visiting Munich.

Agreed. I was there only a few weeks ago and made a visit with friends.
Unfortunately the Amateur Radio section was closed for renovation, and
the Tesla coil was out of order, but all in all a most impressive museum.
Allow the best part of a day to see it all ... and still wish to return.~

Another "must" IMO is the Pinakothek complex ... Alte, Neue, Moderne.

Here are some links:

http://www.inyourpocket.com/germany/munich/en/category?cid=55950&chid=154
for a breezy, slight intro, or
http://www.pinakothek.de/index.php
http://www.pinakothek.de/pinakothek-der-moderne/englisch/englisch.htm
http://www.pinakothek.de/alte-pinakothek/index_en.php

My "diary" impressions at the time ... never mind Oktoberfest!
Plus there were interesting electronic shops and German valve amp books~
--
[26-10-04]

Well, it is still Sunday evening here, and I have trekked around Art
Galleries, since the State ones are free on Sundays. I have finally seen
Van Gogh's Sunflowers in the original; also View of Arles and Plain near
Auvers, and works by Gauguin, Monet, Manet, Cezanne, Degas, Max Ernst, de
Chirico, Jean Miro, Braque, Juan Gris, Picasso, Fernand Leger, and
others, at the Pinokothek der Moderne and the Neue Pinakothek. Plus
various Brueghels and other old masters at the Alte Pinokothek, which I
left after only having explored a tiny fraction, I must confess, having
come from the Moderne (they are all grouped together) and only having had
a coffee and strudel for breakfast, and wanting to see more "modern"
works all at once, I went over to the Neue - I will return to the Alte
(old) on another Sunday, and spend a good part of a day there. I also
picked up a couple of maps and booklet on all of Munich's private art
galleries, and intend to explore as many as I can.
--
: Cheers, John Stewart

Regards; ~
Ross Matheson

who returned again to the Alte, and Durer, da Vinci, Raphael, & etc....

Sander deWaal wrote:

Wow! There's even a Me163 and Me262!
I doubt if one of those could be found in Europe........

http://www.preservedaxisaircraft.com...mitt/me163.htm
http://www.preservedaxisaircraft.com...mitt/me262.htm

Last summer I visited the museums in Hermeskeil, Brussels, and Lelystad.
Now I hear Munich calling my name.

--
Oskari Heinonen * University of Helsinki * Department of Computer Science
* http://www.cs.Helsinki.FI/Oskari.Heinonen/

: My "diary" impressions at the time ... never mind Oktoberfest!

I'm embarrassed;- but ... Oh, Well!! Catching up now ...

: Plus there were interesting electronic shops and German valve amp books~
: --
: [26-10-04]

The date was 26-09-04.

I saw these two valve books in a shop window near where I was staying.
Transcribed from my notebook ...
Anyone here familiar with these?
=
"Röhren-NF Verstärker Praktikum"
Planung, Berechnung und Konstruktion von NF-Vorverstärkern,
Eintakt und Gegentakt-Endverstärken

by Otto Diciol

"Jogis Röhrenbude"
Röhren-NF-Verstärker von Single-Ended bis Gegentakt Standard-Röhren und
Exoten Testen und Regenerieren gebrauchter Röhren Nostalgische Netzeille
Klassiche Oldie-Radio zum Selbstbau Eigenbau-Biespiele

by Joachim Ditttel (or Dittol)
=
[E&OE]
--
RdM

Ross Matheson said:

I saw these two valve books in a shop window near where I was staying.
Transcribed from my notebook ...
Anyone here familiar with these?

Not really, but I can give you a translation:

"Röhren-NF Verstärker Praktikum"
Planung, Berechnung und Konstruktion von NF-Vorverstärkern,
Eintakt und Gegentakt-Endverstärken

Tube LF amplifier cookbook.
Planning, calculation and construction of LF preamps, single ended and
push pull output stages.

"Jogis Röhrenbude"
Röhren-NF-Verstärker von Single-Ended bis Gegentakt Standard-Röhren und
Exoten Testen und Regenerieren gebrauchter Röhren Nostalgische Netzeille
Klassiche Oldie-Radio zum Selbstbau Eigenbau-Biespiele

LF tube amps from single ended to push pull, standard tubes and rare
ones, testing and regeneration of used tubes, old-fashioned power
supplies, DIY vintage radios, building examples.

Sounds like a nice couple of books for a beginner.

BTW, Jogi has a website:
www.jogis-roehrenbude.de
Very interesting, detailed and expanded information there.

--
Sander de Waal
" SOA of a KT88? Sufficient. "