I am upgrading the quality of duplication of CDs. First, let me
tell you, I am getting fabulous quality using an Epson R300 to
print directly on to inkjet printable CDs. I am using Prodiscs
for media.

My question is about paper for printing the insert and tray cards.

I have found a few types that have perferations designed specifically
for CDs. But the paper quality is not all that great. I also tried
using a high gloss picture paper. The printing looks great, but
at 53 lB, 9 mil, it is a bit too thick, especially since I have to
bend/fold the sides for the tray card. Plus all the cutting and
especially the folding is especially tricky. It may also be a little
too glossy---though I can live with it.
The price sure is right, though. Less than 20 bucks Canadian for
100 sheets!

Does anyone know of any supplies of high quality inkjet paper perferated
for CDs? Ones that can take a dense images?

Rob R.

Rob Reedijk wrote in
:

Does anyone know of any supplies of high quality inkjet paper perferated
for CDs? Ones that can take a dense images?

I don't like the perforated paper. My choice is to print on a standard
letter size sheet. I print in the middle of the page, fold in half and
trim the edges.

To score it before folding I use a straight edge and a screwdriver.
Dragging the tip of the screwdriver down the center of the page leaves a
groove across which the page folds easily and very straight.

By cutting to 4.75" square AFTER folding, I get a perfect edge with no
misaligned corners.

The paper I'm using right now is Epson Double Sided Matte Paper, 47 lb,
$30US per 100 sheets (about twice what you're now paying). Takes a great
image on both sides, is smooth, cuts clean, and is heavy enough to have a
good feel in the case.

Rob Reedijk wrote:

Does anyone know of any supplies of high quality inkjet paper perferated
for CDs? Ones that can take a dense images?

Buy the sheets, and ask your local print shop if they can perf them for you.
They can probably also chop to size if you want to print that way.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Scott Dorsey wrote:
Rob Reedijk wrote:

Does anyone know of any supplies of high quality inkjet paper
perferated for CDs? Ones that can take a dense images?

Buy the sheets, and ask your local print shop if they can perf them
for you. They can probably also chop to size if you want to print
that way. --scott

Go to a digital print depot and they can use nice gloss card, get real solid
colours, it won't smudge when you're havig a coffee, they'll trim to size
and indent the folds concisely and sharply, and it will cost less.

geoff

(Scott Dorsey) wrote in
:

Rob Reedijk wrote:

Does anyone know of any supplies of high quality inkjet paper
perferated for CDs? Ones that can take a dense images?

Buy the sheets, and ask your local print shop if they can perf them
for you. They can probably also chop to size if you want to print that
way. --scott

Rather than perforating, you'll get a better result if they score it. It
puts a little crease down the middle that makes folding easier.

I am upgrading the quality of duplication of CDs. First, let me
tell you, I am getting fabulous quality using an Epson R300 to
print directly on to inkjet printable CDs. I am using Prodiscs
for media.

Are they moist?
That's the only way to get really "pro" quality.

Best of luck, Kato

Carey Carlan wrote:
Rob Reedijk wrote in
:

Does anyone know of any supplies of high quality inkjet paper perferated
for CDs? Ones that can take a dense images?

I don't like the perforated paper. My choice is to print on a standard
letter size sheet. I print in the middle of the page, fold in half and
trim the edges.

To score it before folding I use a straight edge and a screwdriver.
Dragging the tip of the screwdriver down the center of the page leaves a
groove across which the page folds easily and very straight.

I tried this, and it works great.

By cutting to 4.75" square AFTER folding, I get a perfect edge with no
misaligned corners.

The paper I'm using right now is Epson Double Sided Matte Paper, 47 lb,
$30US per 100 sheets (about twice what you're now paying). Takes a great
image on both sides, is smooth, cuts clean, and is heavy enough to have a
good feel in the case.

I went with the 36 lb. They don't call it double sided, but it is.
I want to try the 47 lb, just because a little more stiffness on the
paper would be good.

Overall, it worked out quite well. The problem is that I am cutting
to the paper stock, but scoring to the print position since I need markers
for this. Since the paper doesn't always feed through the same way, a
few of them are a bit off. I have to find a way to score to the paper stock.

Thank you for all of your help.

Rob R.

Rob Reedijk wrote in
:

Overall, it worked out quite well. The problem is that I am cutting
to the paper stock, but scoring to the print position since I need
markers for this. Since the paper doesn't always feed through the
same way, a few of them are a bit off. I have to find a way to score
to the paper stock.

1) Leave a mark on the page just ABOVE the area to be cut.
2) Use a paper cutter with a cutting board.
3) Place the folded edge against the top of the cutting board.
4) Cut just inside your cutting mark (1 above)

By folding first, then using the folded edge as your reference side, the
other cuts will be square to your fold.

Carey Carlan wrote:
Rob Reedijk wrote in
:

Overall, it worked out quite well. The problem is that I am cutting
to the paper stock, but scoring to the print position since I need
markers for this. Since the paper doesn't always feed through the
same way, a few of them are a bit off. I have to find a way to score
to the paper stock.

1) Leave a mark on the page just ABOVE the area to be cut.
2) Use a paper cutter with a cutting board.
3) Place the folded edge against the top of the cutting board.
4) Cut just inside your cutting mark (1 above)

By folding first, then using the folded edge as your reference side, the
other cuts will be square to your fold.

Ahh!! I get it. Very smart. (or, I am very dumb.) Great. I will try
that.

Rob R.

Rob Reedijk wrote:
Carey Carlan wrote:


To score it before folding I use a straight edge and a screwdriver.
Dragging the tip of the screwdriver down the center of the page
leaves a groove across which the page folds easily and very straight.

I tried this, and it works great.

A proper crimper that doesn't scour the paper works better. Doesn't start
to look ragged after a while.

geoff

"Geoff Wood" -nospam wrote in
:


A proper crimper that doesn't scour the paper works better. Doesn't
start to look ragged after a while.

Agreed. Where do I find a non-commercial one of those?

Carey Carlan wrote:
"Geoff Wood" -nospam wrote in
:


A proper crimper that doesn't scour the paper works better. Doesn't
start to look ragged after a while.

Agreed. Where do I find a non-commercial one of those?

Office stationary shop ? Just guessing - I don't actually know.

I get mine done (printed/cut/creased) at my local 'digital design and
print'. Colour laser seems infinitely better in all ways to inkjet on any
paper, and fade-resistant. Plus it works out cheaper !


geoff

"Geoff Wood" -nospam wrote in
:

A proper crimper that doesn't scour the paper works better. Doesn't
start to look ragged after a while.

Agreed. Where do I find a non-commercial one of those?

Office stationary shop ? Just guessing - I don't actually know.

You pressed one of my buttons. "Stationery" not "stationary"

I get mine done (printed/cut/creased) at my local 'digital design and
print'.

But that raises your cost per page. I want to invest up front and forget
about it. All I've found so far are the big machines that can do thousands
of pages an hour.

Colour laser seems infinitely better in all ways to inkjet on
any paper, and fade-resistant. Plus it works out cheaper !

I've switched to a new Epson inkjet printer that uses pigment inks rather
than dyes. It's waterproof and permanent (as in many years without
fading). I've not yet seen a color laser give the kind of image quality I
want on the product I pass out.

Rob Reedijk wrote:
Carey Carlan wrote:

By folding first, then using the folded edge as your reference side, the
other cuts will be square to your fold.

Ahh!! I get it. Very smart. (or, I am very dumb.) Great. I will try
that.

Just a follow up. I just did a quick run of 10 and they turned out
consistently good. Thank you sir. I now have a working system.

Rob R.

Rob Reedijk wrote:

Rob Reedijk wrote:

Carey Carlan wrote:


By folding first, then using the folded edge as your reference side, the
other cuts will be square to your fold.


Ahh!! I get it. Very smart. (or, I am very dumb.) Great. I will try
that.


Just a follow up. I just did a quick run of 10 and they turned out
consistently good. Thank you sir. I now have a working system.


Until you have done 50. Then it will break down completely as you run
screaming down the street.

To score it before folding I use a straight edge and a screwdriver.
Dragging the tip of the screwdriver down the center of the page
leaves a groove across which the page folds easily and very straight.

I tried this, and it works great.

A proper crimper that doesn't scour the paper works better.
Doesn't start to look ragged after a while.

I use one of my Fiskars rotary cutters with the perforation blade.
Works great for both the fold(s) in the front card, and also for
the folds on either side of the rear card. I got the cutter at Costco.

I do all my labels/cards, etc. in PowerPoint. I have put some of
my templates online here...
http://www.rcrowley.com/templates.htm

S O'Neill wrote in
:

Rob Reedijk wrote:

Rob Reedijk wrote:

Carey Carlan wrote:


By folding first, then using the folded edge as your reference side,
the other cuts will be square to your fold.


Ahh!! I get it. Very smart. (or, I am very dumb.) Great. I will
try that.


Just a follow up. I just did a quick run of 10 and they turned out
consistently good. Thank you sir. I now have a working system.


Until you have done 50. Then it will break down completely as you run
screaming down the street.

Funny!

I find a long movie or a baseball game is great background for cutting
covers and assembling a big batch of CD's. I can cut, fold, and assemble
about a hundred during a game.

"Richard Crowley" wrote in
:

I use one of my Fiskars rotary cutters with the perforation blade.
Works great for both the fold(s) in the front card, and also for
the folds on either side of the rear card. I got the cutter at Costco.

Fiskar supposed sells a scoring blade as well, but I've never found one.

I'm still using the perforated forms for the tray card. As the customer
can't get to that, the perforations aren't as important. And at the price
I easily trade labor time for those two very precise folds against the
slightly higher stock price. Tape Warehouse sells them as part 20600 at
0.13 per page (2 tray cards per page) in quantities of a hundred sheets.

I do all my labels/cards, etc. in PowerPoint. I have put some of
my templates online here...
http://www.rcrowley.com/templates.htm

From the feedback I got here, I switched to Quark Express and have been
very happy. The only thing I can't figure out there is how to create semi-
transparent layers. Otherwise, it creates great output.

S O'Neill wrote:
Rob Reedijk wrote:

Rob Reedijk wrote:

Just a follow up. I just did a quick run of 10 and they turned out
consistently good. Thank you sir. I now have a working system.

Until you have done 50. Then it will break down completely as you run
screaming down the street.

Actually, that last 10 made up the 50 for the run I was doing. I try
not to do them all at the same time. I like the photoshop layout
kind of stuff. But this is mindnumbingly awful.

Rob R.

Carey Carlan wrote:
"Richard Crowley" wrote in
:

I use one of my Fiskars rotary cutters with the perforation blade.
Works great for both the fold(s) in the front card, and also for
the folds on either side of the rear card. I got the cutter at Costco.

Fiskars supposed sells a scoring blade as well, but I've never found one.

I am also using a Fiskar rotary blade table. It's okay, but I already
have to under-cut everything by 1/16" because the blade moves (yes,
I have tightened the nut). There is also the square long plastic thing
that the blade cuts against. I have already had to rotate mine several
times. I tried to plane it true with a scraper, but that didn't work
so far. Are there replacements available?

I think I will eventually spend the $ and get a high quality one.

Rob R.

Carey Carlan wrote:
"Geoff Wood" -nospam wrote in
:

A proper crimper that doesn't scour the paper works better.
Doesn't start to look ragged after a while.

Agreed. Where do I find a non-commercial one of those?

Office stationary shop ? Just guessing - I don't actually know.

You pressed one of my buttons. "Stationery" not "stationary"

It has not moverd since I started going there.

geoff

Carey Carlan wrote:
S O'Neill wrote in
:

I find a long movie or a baseball game is great background for cutting
covers and assembling a big batch of CD's. I can cut, fold, and
assemble about a hundred during a game.

Trouble is, if there is an interesting bit, you guillotine your thumb off.
Makes a mess on the labels.

geoff

Carey Carlan wrote:

I've switched to a new Epson inkjet printer that uses pigment inks rather
than dyes. It's waterproof and permanent (as in many years without
fading). I've not yet seen a color laser give the kind of image quality I
want on the product I pass out.

Take a look at the new Konica-Minolta Magicolor machines. Shadow detail is
still lacking and they don't have the greyscale you might want, but they are
just an order of magnitude better than anything that was available five years
back.

But then, I am still using white J-cards with KLUDGE AUDIO TEST PRESSING
in black letters, so I shouldn't be one to judge.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Carey Carlan wrote:
"Richard Crowley" wrote in
:


I use one of my Fiskars rotary cutters with the perforation blade.
Works great for both the fold(s) in the front card, and also for
the folds on either side of the rear card. I got the cutter at Costco.


Fiskar supposed sells a scoring blade as well, but I've never found one.

The Fiskars are great. I got a scoring blade, it doesn't work very well
at all, I went to the perforator for folds.

Scott Dorsey wrote:

But then, I am still using white J-cards with KLUDGE AUDIO TEST PRESSING
in black letters, so I shouldn't be one to judge.

That is pretty silly. Putting black and white J-cards on to all
those vinyl pressings.

Rob R.

Rob Reedijk wrote in
:

I am also using a Fiskar rotary blade table. It's okay, but I already
have to under-cut everything by 1/16" because the blade moves (yes,
I have tightened the nut).

Mine has a washer (spacer) inside. Maybe yours came out?

There is also the square long plastic
thing that the blade cuts against. I have already had to rotate mine
several times. I tried to plane it true with a scraper, but that
didn't work so far. Are there replacements available?

I got one at Office Depot.

S O'Neill wrote in
:

The Fiskars are great. I got a scoring blade, it doesn't work very
well at all, I went to the perforator for folds.

In that case I'll just continue to score with my screwdriver.

Rob Reedijk wrote:

S O'Neill wrote:

Rob Reedijk wrote:


Rob Reedijk wrote:

Just a follow up. I just did a quick run of 10 and they turned out
consistently good. Thank you sir. I now have a working system.


Until you have done 50. Then it will break down completely as you run
screaming down the street.


Actually, that last 10 made up the 50 for the run I was doing. I try
not to do them all at the same time. I like the photoshop layout
kind of stuff. But this is mindnumbingly awful.

Rob R.


Stop now! You've done 50; any more and it'll be all......



......geez what a mess.

A #4, chrome-plated crochet hook works better. Use a little
nose grease (swipe the end of the hook against the fold of
your nose against your cheek to get a little lubrication).
Or you can use that "Tacky Finger" stuff.

One thing a lot of people either forget or never know is
that paper has a grain. When you buy paper, get it with the
grain running the way your crease/score/perf will run, or
orient your printing to the grain. Often the package will
say "Grain - long" or "Grain - short". If it doesn't, get a
sample, and tear it lengthwise and across the short side.
One way will tear easier and straighter. That is the
direction of the grain. Buy or orient accordingly.

Another tip: Score and cut with a softer surface under your
work piece. A piece of heavy cardboard, the cover of a
3-ring binder or something similar works well. Not too soft
though. I use issues of the trade magazines for this ("Pro
Sound News", "FOH", "PLSN", etc.) They are big enough to
support the whole sheet (even 14") and are eminently
discardable.

You can find on eBay many Martin-Yale and similar
guillotine-type cutters. They will cut a stack 1-1/2" or so,
have a secure clamp and extraordinarily sharp blade. Prices
range from $125 for used to $500 for new. Worth it for
production runs. I have one, and it is a lifesaver. The
Fiskars perf blade works pretty well for folds, too. Just
don't go over your perf line twice. Then you'll have a cut.

Kinko's (at least around here) will do cuts for $1.50 per.
Print a ream of inserts, get 'em cut for $6.00. Brings your
cost of cutting down to a little over a penny apiece. You
can't work with a Olfa knife and straight edge for that
price (if your time is worth anything).

I've done countless thousands of cassette j-cards and CD
inserts over the years (50s and 100s at a time), and they
are the bane of my existence. Sometimes the profit margin on
these projects is in the graphics. I'd like to work with
somebody like Veriad to develop a microperfed insert and
back card that will do the job and can be purchased in the
thousands. It is a quest ...



Toivo Maki
Riverside, CA

Carey Carlan wrote:

S O'Neill wrote in
:

The Fiskars are great. I got a scoring blade, it doesn't work very
well at all, I went to the perforator for folds.

In that case I'll just continue to score with my screwdriver.

On Tue, 11 May 2004 15:29:37 GMT, Carey Carlan
wrote:

S O'Neill wrote in
:

The Fiskars are great. I got a scoring blade, it doesn't work very
well at all, I went to the perforator for folds.

In that case I'll just continue to score with my screwdriver.

Back in the 80's, I used a pizza cutter for scoring.

Now I use Giga... sounds much better.

Peace - Don

Rob Reedijk wrote:


Actually, that last 10 made up the 50 for the run I was doing. I try
not to do them all at the same time. I like the photoshop layout
kind of stuff. But this is mindnumbingly awful.


I hope you're not duping the CDs 'one at a time' ?!! most people get sick
of that scenario after about 8, then come to me....

geoff

T Maki wrote in :

You can find on eBay many Martin-Yale and similar
guillotine-type cutters. They will cut a stack 1-1/2" or so,
have a secure clamp and extraordinarily sharp blade. Prices
range from $125 for used to $500 for new. Worth it for
production runs. I have one, and it is a lifesaver. The
Fiskars perf blade works pretty well for folds, too. Just
don't go over your perf line twice. Then you'll have a cut.

There's a whole ebay category for these things!
Home All Categories Business & Industrial Printing & Graphic Arts
Bindery & Finishing Equipment Paper Cutters & Trimmers Guillotine

Kinko's (at least around here) will do cuts for $1.50 per.
Print a ream of inserts, get 'em cut for $6.00. Brings your
cost of cutting down to a little over a penny apiece. You
can't work with a Olfa knife and straight edge for that
price (if your time is worth anything).

But no help for bleeding the edges. How often do you do artwork on the
cover and leave a border?

But no help for bleeding the edges. How often do you do artwork on the
cover and leave a border?

You just have to give them cut marks outside the print area,
or very accurate measurements to an index reference point.
Many if not most commercial cutters have laser cutting
guides and measuring scales that will allow cuts the width
of dust. Tell them to take the line, leave the line, or
split the line, depending on how tight it needs to be and
how you've set it up. I use a 1-point mark and take the
line. Some people would rather use a chubby 2-point line and
deal with that.

A bleed is not a function of the cut, it's a function of the
printing. I print anything I want, anywhere it needs to be.
My templates are set up in Pagemaker with the correct crop
and score marks. I only print on 8-1/2" X 11" stock, one-up
for a folded piece or two-up for single double-sided, so
it's never a problem. Even going to 14" stock for an inner
fold takes only an adjustment to the template, and print
one-up. If you're trying to score, perf, fold, and cut
without marks outside your print area, there isn't enough
Excedrin in the world that will take away that headache.

I find the biggest problem is throwaway printers that don't
register worth crap, or these Epson inkjets that use more
ink running cleaning cycles than they do printing the job.

And although you can hack this stuff with Word or some
freebie program that comes with a package of cards or
labels, to be serious requires a serious publishing program.
Quark or Pagemaker have the controls needed for fine
control, Quark a little finer than PM. Do your artwork in
Illustrator or whereever gets the artwork results you want.
Use a publishing program to set up the printing aspects.
Even distilling into a PDF is wonderful if you can squirt it
down a wire to a digital color Xerox. I've got a guy close
by who can take my files over the wire and the output from
the color Xerox is magnificent. It's expensive but worth it
on some jobs.

YMMV


TM

T Maki wrote in :

But no help for bleeding the edges. How often do you do artwork on the
cover and leave a border?

long, accurate spiel about clean printing techiques omitted

Didn't answer the question.

You mentioned having your CD insert stock cut to size a ream at a time, and
all I asked was how you handle bleeds on precut stock.

Sorry, I thought you understood the process.

The stock isn't precut to the finished insert size, it's cut
to the size you want to use in your printer. Note the order
in which I explained the process:

"Print a ream of inserts, get 'em cut for $6.00."

Translated, that would be "print, then cut." In that order.

Printing them correctly is the key. Talk to a local printer
about how to set up a job. A good reference book is "The
Copy-To-Press Handbook" by Pickens, published by Wiley. You
can probably get it through OpAmp Tech Books, ISBN 0
471-89862-7. Keep it on the shelf next to your "Sound
Reinforcement Handbook", "Principles of Digital Audio", and
"The Bedroom Studio Guide To Winning A Technical Grammy".



TM


Carey Carlan wrote:


Didn't answer the question.

You mentioned having your CD insert stock cut to size a ream at a time, and
all I asked was how you handle bleeds on precut stock.

In article , Carey
Carlan wrote:

S O'Neill wrote in
:

Rob Reedijk wrote:

Rob Reedijk wrote:

Carey Carlan wrote:


By folding first, then using the folded edge as your reference side,
the other cuts will be square to your fold.


Ahh!! I get it. Very smart. (or, I am very dumb.) Great. I will
try that.


Just a follow up. I just did a quick run of 10 and they turned out
consistently good. Thank you sir. I now have a working system.


Until you have done 50. Then it will break down completely as you run
screaming down the street.

Funny!

I find a long movie or a baseball game is great background for cutting
covers and assembling a big batch of CD's. I can cut, fold, and assemble
about a hundred during a game.

And way back when I was a single man and had to wear shirt and tie to work
I could iron a dozen shirts in the space of an LP and a half...

--
Mike Clayton

In article , Carey
Carlan wrote:

S O'Neill wrote in
:

The Fiskars are great. I got a scoring blade, it doesn't work very
well at all, I went to the perforator for folds.

In that case I'll just continue to score with my screwdriver.

I use the back of a craft knife blade, the front of which I use for actual cuts.

--
Mike Clayton

T Maki wrote in :

Sorry, I thought you understood the process.

The stock isn't precut to the finished insert size, it's cut
to the size you want to use in your printer. Note the order
in which I explained the process:

"Print a ream of inserts, get 'em cut for $6.00."

Translated, that would be "print, then cut." In that order.

Oh, I understood just fine. It's just that I thought you had a secret
I didn't know. I don't print 500 CD's at a time. Runs are usually under
50. Anything over a hundred immediately jumps to 500 and is pressed and
printed professionally.

I don't print 500 CD's at a time.

I don't either. I used 500 as an exaggeration and to make
the math easy.

Even for 50 or 100, you do anything to reduce the actual
dollar cost or maximize your time. When I have five or six
50-or 100-piece CDR jobs in here, I can print the inserts
for all on a standard layout template while the discs are
burning, score/perf and cut them so they are ready as the
discs are coming out of the duplicator. With 13 24x burners,
it can be a little busy, so work flow setup is important.

There aren't too many secrets in the printing business. Ya
just gotta do what ya gotta do.

pressed and printed professionally.

Although I know what you mean, I sure wish we all could get
away from using "professionally" as a substitute for
"jobbing out" or "vending out". All of us who are doing this
for a living are doing all of it "professionally". A small
quantity or a small dollar amount doesn't make the work any
less professional. Even your local printer will "vend" a job
if he either doesn't have the capacity or other resources to
do the work in-house. If he gets a 100,000-piece 17 X 34,
six color job, and he can only do 11 X 17 four color, do you
think he refuses the work and then when he talks to his
fellows about it, says "anything over 10,000 pieces I have
printed 'professionally'"? Of course not.

Words mean things. The antonym of professional is amateur.
If you're a professional, everything you do is, so use the
word with pride. If you don't regard yourself and all your
work as professional (whether you do it in-house or not),
why should anyone else?

Carry on.


TM

"Mike Clayton" wrote ...
I use the back of a craft knife blade, the front of which I use for
actual cuts.

Same here for very small runs. But for larger runs (a dozen or so),
I set up "semi-production" and use the Fiskars rotary perforator.
It is so much cleaner than any DIY scoring method.