Home |
Search |
Today's Posts |
#1
|
|||
|
|||
Specifications
These specs belong to two different Valve Amplifiers. Which one can be
considered to be better? Product X Specifications Power Output - 36 watts RMS @ 1kHz into 6 Ohms 9 watts RMS (Pure Class A) into 6Ohms Peak Power -Output - 50 watts into 6 Ohms Freq. Response 3 Hz to 40 kHz (+ - 0.5 dB), @ 1 watt with -Electrostatics connected.3Hz to 100 kHz (+- 0.5 dB) into 6 Ohms at 1 watt Rise Time 2.5 Micro Seconds @ 1 watt into 6 Ohms 8.00 Micro Seconds with Electrostat connected THD 0.01 % @ 1 watt 20 to 20kHz in 6 Ohms 0.1 % @ 10 watts into 6 Ohms 0.6 % @ 36 watts (1kHz IM Distortion 0.01 % 250 Hz + 8020 Hz (@ 1 watt into 6 Ohms) Dynamic Range 108 dB Input Impedance 10 K Ohms Output Impedance 6 Ohms ( 4 to 8 Ohms) Damping Factor 26 Input Sensitivity 1 V - 35 watts Power Consumption 170 watts Weight 50 Kgs. Product Y Specification Power Tube 833 Effective -Power output 150 watts Frequency range 20Hz-100KHz Input sensitivity 1.0Vrms Input impedance 100k ohms S/N ratio 100dB Power consumption 800W(each) -Load impedance 4/8 ohms External dimensions 435Wx525Dx305H(mm) Weight 50kg(each) (exclude power supply) |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
Chelvam wrote:
These specs belong to two different Valve Amplifiers. Which one can be considered to be better? ========================= I don't know because I have not heard either one, and neither do you, until you do. -GP |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
B&D wrote in message ...
On 8/18/04 10:44 AM, in article , "Chelvam" wrote: These specs belong to two different Valve Amplifiers. Which one can be considered to be better? The one that sound best in your system and sits easiest within your budget! Neither one! One costs 5x more than my current Amp (and my budget) and the other about 60x. I was looking for some specs to be used as "the standard" before picking one with the closest match. Not the best way to buy but audition is becoming more difficult these days. So far, it appears that THD and output correlates with price. |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
TChelvam wrote:
Neither one! One costs 5x more than my current Amp (and my budget) and the other about 60x. I was looking for some specs to be used as "the standard" before picking one with the closest match. Not the best way to buy but audition is becoming more difficult these days. So far, it appears that THD and output correlates with price. So what? That all means nil unless you can correlate THD and/or output and/or price with how the amplifier SOUNDS. -GP |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
Chelvam wrote:
These specs belong to two different Valve Amplifiers. Which one can be considered to be better? snip specs for brevity Since the specs for product X and product Y specify entirely different parameters, there is no meaningful comparison that can be made on this information alone, let alone decisions about which is *better*. Graham |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
"Pooh Bear" wrote in message
... Chelvam wrote: These specs belong to two different Valve Amplifiers. Which one can be considered to be better? snip specs for brevity Since the specs for product X and product Y specify entirely different parameters, there is no meaningful comparison that can be made on this information alone, let alone decisions about which is *better*. Yes, that's why I posted the question. The product x was a $25,000 VA-1 of www.cadenceaudio.com and the product Y is WAVAC's 833. What I don't get is the specifications are not uniform and they give different parameters for different model. And I have one more manufacturer who says "There is a difference between TAC 34 , TAC 88 , TAC 834 , Magma , Audio Institute and our MODIFIED IN ENGLAND valve amplifier ! ( Unscrupulous dealers who tell you that they are the same are liars , and breaking the law of "Trade Description Act" ! )" . This the boldest statement that I have heard so far. http://www.affordablevalvecompany.com/index.html but somehow I can't find the specs in there. Surely there must be some standard set by AES or other audio engineering organisation for amplifiers. |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
There is no law that would be effective for getting manufacturers to
conform measurements. They can simply provide other measurements or none at all. If you have enough dough, you could buy them both and have them tested at an independent lab using the same gear and group of tests. Even armed with those results, you would not be able to make a choice of which amp would "sound best". My advise is not to lose any sleep over it and listen to things before purchasing them. The proof is in the pudding. -Bill www.uptownaudio.com Roanoke VA (540) 343-1250 "Chelvam" wrote in message ... "Pooh Bear" wrote in message ... Chelvam wrote: These specs belong to two different Valve Amplifiers. Which one can be considered to be better? snip specs for brevity Since the specs for product X and product Y specify entirely different parameters, there is no meaningful comparison that can be made on this information alone, let alone decisions about which is *better*. Yes, that's why I posted the question. The product x was a $25,000 VA-1 of www.cadenceaudio.com and the product Y is WAVAC's 833. What I don't get is the specifications are not uniform and they give different parameters for different model. And I have one more manufacturer who says "There is a difference between TAC 34 , TAC 88 , TAC 834 , Magma , Audio Institute and our MODIFIED IN ENGLAND valve amplifier ! ( Unscrupulous dealers who tell you that they are the same are liars , and breaking the law of "Trade Description Act" ! )" . This the boldest statement that I have heard so far. http://www.affordablevalvecompany.com/index.html but somehow I can't find the specs in there. Surely there must be some standard set by AES or other audio engineering organisation for amplifiers. |
#9
|
|||
|
|||
Chelvam wrote:
"Pooh Bear" wrote in message ... Chelvam wrote: These specs belong to two different Valve Amplifiers. Which one can be considered to be better? snip specs for brevity Since the specs for product X and product Y specify entirely different parameters, there is no meaningful comparison that can be made on this information alone, let alone decisions about which is *better*. Yes, that's why I posted the question. The product x was a $25,000 VA-1 of www.cadenceaudio.com and the product Y is WAVAC's 833. I would be deeply sceptical of any audio amplifier product with a price of $25,000. It's simply pandering to 'boutique audio' marketing that claims *magical* properties for their product only of course ! And pandering to those with deep pockets too of course ! What I don't get is the specifications are not uniform and they give different parameters for different model. I am most involved with the professional audio trade. Most manufacturers in that realm have no difficulty presenting full and meaningful specifications that are easily compared. A manufacturer in the hi-fi realm who chooses to avoid quoting recognised technical measurements should be questioned for their reasoning IMHO. You may choose to let the manufacturer's reluctance to quote full and meaningful figures influence your estimation of them. And I have one more manufacturer who says "There is a difference between TAC 34 , TAC 88 , TAC 834 , Magma , Audio Institute and our MODIFIED IN ENGLAND valve amplifier ! ( Unscrupulous dealers who tell you that they are the same are liars , and breaking the law of "Trade Description Act" ! )" . This the boldest statement that I have heard so far. http://www.affordablevalvecompany.com/index.html but somehow I can't find the specs in there. I believe I saw this recently on ebay.co.uk or a link from there too. Seems to apply to imported valve amps of Chinese manufacture. Surely there must be some standard set by AES or other audio engineering organisation for amplifiers. I don't think the AES has ever felt the need to intervene ! The AES does however publish recommended test *techniques / methods*. I assume that they expect that those test figures might then be published ! They can't force ppl to however. Any competent manufacturer knows what scecifications are routinely published. If they choose not to publish recognised technical specs - then caveat emptor. WAVEC's 'spec' was deeply lacking in meaningful detail. Specs can only give you a portion of the picture however. The distortion specs that are typically published for example ( usually THD - total harmonic distortion ) give insufficient information about the distortion spectrum to make a truly informed choice between ( especially ) those products using different circuit toplogies. E.g. Valve / solid state : class A / class AB : linear / PWM ( digital ) to name just a few possibilities. In comparison a signal to noise ratio is quite meaningful ( the bigger the better ). Similarly, frequency response should be 'flat' ( +/- the least number of dB - ideally 0.5 for example ) over the whole of - or more than the entire audio spectrum to avoid obvious signal colouration. In practice, a flat frequency response is pretty easy to acheive these days. Graham |
#10
|
|||
|
|||
Uptown Audio wrote:
My advise is not to lose any sleep over it and listen to things before purchasing them. The proof is in the pudding. Always good advice but be aware of the effect of different listening environments if you can't do this at home. Graham |
#11
|
|||
|
|||
I don't know what the law is in the UK, but the issue is moot; you
shouldn't buy ANY valve amplifier. Certainly not one that costs 4 figures. Yes, that would be a big IMO. Norm Strong "Uptown Audio" wrote in message ... There is no law that would be effective for getting manufacturers to conform measurements. They can simply provide other measurements or none at all. If you have enough dough, you could buy them both and have them tested at an independent lab using the same gear and group of tests. Even armed with those results, you would not be able to make a choice of which amp would "sound best". My advise is not to lose any sleep over it and listen to things before purchasing them. The proof is in the pudding. -Bill www.uptownaudio.com Roanoke VA (540) 343-1250 "Chelvam" wrote in message ... "Pooh Bear" wrote in message ... Chelvam wrote: These specs belong to two different Valve Amplifiers. Which one can be considered to be better? snip specs for brevity Since the specs for product X and product Y specify entirely different parameters, there is no meaningful comparison that can be made on this information alone, let alone decisions about which is *better*. Yes, that's why I posted the question. The product x was a $25,000 VA-1 of www.cadenceaudio.com and the product Y is WAVAC's 833. What I don't get is the specifications are not uniform and they give different parameters for different model. And I have one more manufacturer who says "There is a difference between TAC 34 , TAC 88 , TAC 834 , Magma , Audio Institute and our MODIFIED IN ENGLAND valve amplifier ! ( Unscrupulous dealers who tell you that they are the same are liars , and breaking the law of "Trade Description Act" ! )" . This the boldest statement that I have heard so far. http://www.affordablevalvecompany.com/index.html but somehow I can't find the specs in there. Surely there must be some standard set by AES or other audio engineering organisation for amplifiers. |
#12
|
|||
|
|||
Chelvam wrote:
"Pooh Bear" wrote in message ... Chelvam wrote: These specs belong to two different Valve Amplifiers. Which one can be considered to be better? Your question makes no sense as stated. Better at what? And before you say, "Playing music!", amps don't play music. Amps drive loudspeakers. If you had the right measurements (of both amps and speakers) you could make some intelligent distinctions about which amp might be better at driving a particular set of speakers. But specs aren't measurements. Specs are marketing. Or, to put it another way, spec sheets are drawn up with an eye to making the product appear as good as possible, or to target buyers looking for particular things. Beyond honestly reported power ratings (which already seems to be asking a lot in some cases), there isn't much I would trust on any amp's spec sheet. Then again, given my own perspective and needs, there isn't much else I need to know. (Based on the specs you quoted, I wouldn't give either of those products a second thought. Neither quotes a meaningful power rating, so they can't even answer the most basic question: Can it drive my speakers?) snip specs for brevity Since the specs for product X and product Y specify entirely different parameters, there is no meaningful comparison that can be made on this information alone, let alone decisions about which is *better*. Yes, that's why I posted the question. The product x was a $25,000 VA-1 of www.cadenceaudio.com* and the product Y is WAVAC's 833. What I don't get is the specifications are not uniform and they give different parameters for different model. And I have one more manufacturer who says "There is a difference between TAC 34 , TAC 88 , TAC 834 , Magma , Audio Institute and our MODIFIED IN ENGLAND valve amplifier ! ( Unscrupulous dealers who tell you that they are the same are liars , and breaking the law of "Trade Description Act" ! )" . This the boldest statement that I have heard so far. http://www.affordablevalvecompany.com/index.html but somehow I can't find the specs in there. I suggest you stop looking for truth--or at least the complete truth--in advertisements. And everything you see on a manufacturer's web page is advertising. (And almost everything you read on the Web--or for that matter in print--is based on that advertising.) Surely there must be some standard set by AES or other audio engineering organisation for amplifiers. And if there were, why would a manufacturer use them, rather than presenting the specs that put his product in the best light? Objective comparisons are somebody else's job. bob __________________________________________________ _______________ Check out Election 2004 for up-to-date election news, plus voter tools and more! http://special.msn.com/msn/election2004.armx |
#13
|
|||
|
|||
Uptown Audio wrote:
There is no law that would be effective for getting manufacturers to conform measurements. They can simply provide other measurements or none at all. If you have enough dough, you could buy them both and have them tested at an independent lab using the same gear and group of tests. Even armed with those results, you would not be able to make a choice of which amp would "sound best". My advise is not to lose any sleep over it and listen to things before purchasing them. The proof is in the pudding. -Bill www.uptownaudio.com Roanoke VA (540) 343-1250 Better yet, go on ebay and pick up a used adcom for $300 or $400. With 300 to 400 w/channel and vanishing distortion, the specs'll make you happy. And, evryone who's anyone knows you can't here the difference between well engineered amplifiers anyway, so i gnore all the tube amp hogwash auplater |
Reply |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Forum | |||
Old speaker (Altec Lansings) Specifications? | General | |||
Specifications Ratings | Car Audio | |||
Voice Specifications | Audio Opinions | |||
Distortion measures that mimic subjective impressions | High End Audio | |||
What are specifications of HARMON KARDON 150+ AMPLIFIER | General |