Robert Morein wrote:
"trotsky" wrote in message
link.net...

Robert Morein wrote:

"trotsky" wrote in message
...


Bill McCullough wrote:


The Stainless Steel Boob Orchestra wrote in message

news:18ttpvg3ai23uheslofprcjqmuli9g2ugi@rdmzrn ewstxt.nz...


On 28 Oct 2003 11:04:49 -0800, (Bill McCullough)
wrote:




Are these things really as overpriced and under-engineered as

everyone

says they are? I see that they sell on Audiogon for around $450 a
pair, is the $1600 MSRP a scam?

These are Gerg's own words on how he 'designed' the product. You
decide whether the speakers are worth $1600.

http://tinyurl.com/qnhp



So, it appears that this guy just ordered some speaker parts, had the
speaker supply house design the crossover (for a fee), screwed the
parts into a cabinet and BINGO!!! instant "audiophile" speaker
company. Is that about the size of it?



Oh dear, another troll. If it's so easy, troll, then do it.


Trolling is hard work. This is shooting ducks in a barrel.


What were the ducks doing in a barrel, Bob? I guess this is just
another hunch, but I'm betting your writing is none too good.


Let me help you out a little:
"What are the ducks doing in a barrel, Bob? I have another hunch that your
writing stinks."


Agreed.

Michael Mckelvy wrote:


Yes. For $40.00 Madisound will design a 2 way xover for anybody. I would
recomend using better quality drivers, say Scan Speak or Focal. You can
check out the Driver for The Jupiter speakers on Madisound's
web site on their catalog page under Silver Flute.

Actually, I'd use either the Seas H282 or H512. Maybe a H627, which is clean
response-wise and shielded.

Shoot, for a $1600 price, I'd use a E017 woofer and E006 tweeter. Even on
paper, it's clear that the E006 will smoke the ones Greg is using. No contest.
Maybe a good ScanSpeak instead, like the 8554. It seems like it would be a
good match with the Seas E006.

That's $454.20 for the four drivers($38 with the above ScanSpeaks). Of course,
I'd put it in a pair of $300 mini-tower cabinets and put in two good crossovers.
Another $120 for the rest of it. $900 per pair my cost - $1200 yours.

$300 profit for asssembly and testing seems fair since it is direct-sales.
These two in combination should make a crushingly good speaker - and
easily compete with anything in the market for $1200. My goal would be to
source directly or wholesale eventually and get costs down to maybe $600.
End goal: Drivers - $325 Crossovers - $75 Cabinets/posts - $200

That would give me 100% profit. That seems a reasonable goal. I start
out at lower profits and expect to improve until I can do better thanks to
quantity and efficiency. Of course, I'd research it first. $700 may be a
more attainable goal, so up the price to $1400.

You use the best available parts and you get results that are good enough
to gloss over small problems until I refine the design.

Michael Mckelvy wrote:


Yes. For $40.00 Madisound will design a 2 way xover for anybody. I would
recomend using better quality drivers, say Scan Speak or Focal. You can
check out the Driver for The Jupiter speakers on Madisound's
web site on their catalog page under Silver Flute.

Actually, I'd use either the Seas H282 or H512. Maybe a H627, which is clean
response-wise and shielded.

Shoot, for a $1600 price, I'd use a E017 woofer and E006 tweeter. Even on
paper, it's clear that the E006 will smoke the ones Greg is using. No contest.
Maybe a good ScanSpeak instead, like the 8554. It seems like it would be a
good match with the Seas E006.

That's $454.20 for the four drivers($38 with the above ScanSpeaks). Of course,
I'd put it in a pair of $300 mini-tower cabinets and put in two good crossovers.
Another $120 for the rest of it. $900 per pair my cost - $1200 yours.

$300 profit for asssembly and testing seems fair since it is direct-sales.
These two in combination should make a crushingly good speaker - and
easily compete with anything in the market for $1200. My goal would be to
source directly or wholesale eventually and get costs down to maybe $600.
End goal: Drivers - $325 Crossovers - $75 Cabinets/posts - $200

That would give me 100% profit. That seems a reasonable goal. I start
out at lower profits and expect to improve until I can do better thanks to
quantity and efficiency. Of course, I'd research it first. $700 may be a
more attainable goal, so up the price to $1400.

You use the best available parts and you get results that are good enough
to gloss over small problems until I refine the design.

On 30/10/03 21:59, in article
. net, "trotsky"
wrote:

Robert Morein wrote:
"trotsky" wrote in message
...


Bill McCullough wrote:

The Stainless Steel Boob Orchestra wrote in message

news:18ttpvg3ai23uheslofprcjqmuli9g2ugi@rdmzrnews txt.nz...

On 28 Oct 2003 11:04:49 -0800, (Bill McCullough)
wrote:



Are these things really as overpriced and under-engineered as everyone
says they are? I see that they sell on Audiogon for around $450 a
pair, is the $1600 MSRP a scam?

These are Gerg's own words on how he 'designed' the product. You
decide whether the speakers are worth $1600.

http://tinyurl.com/qnhp



So, it appears that this guy just ordered some speaker parts, had the
speaker supply house design the crossover (for a fee), screwed the
parts into a cabinet and BINGO!!! instant "audiophile" speaker
company. Is that about the size of it?



Oh dear, another troll. If it's so easy, troll, then do it.


Trolling is hard work. This is shooting ducks in a barrel.


What were the ducks doing in a barrel, Bob? I guess this is just
another hunch, but I'm betting your writing is none too good.

Years of pretending to be a screenwriter/filmmaker have been no more
productive for poor old Bobby then his 20+ years in tow Universities without
attaining a degree (even after suing them).

Great hunch!

Sylvan Morein, DDS
Sad father of Bob


http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/mld/l...ws/4853918.htm

Doctoral student takes intellectual property case to Supreme Court
By L. STUART DITZEN
Philadelphia Inquirer

PHILADELPHIA -Even the professors who dismissed him from a doctoral program
at Drexel University agreed that Robert Morein was uncommonly smart.

They apparently didn't realize that he was uncommonly stubborn too - so much
so that he would mount a court fight all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court
to challenge his dismissal.

The Supremes have already rejected this appeal, btw.

"It's a personality trait I have - I'm a tenacious guy," said Morein, a
pleasantly eccentric man regarded by friends as an inventive genius. "And we
do come to a larger issue here."

An "inventive genius" that has never invented anything. And hardly
"pleasantly" eccentric.

A five-year legal battle between this unusual ex-student and one of
Philadelphia's premier educational institutions has gone largely unnoticed
by the media and the public.

Because no one gives a **** about a 50 year old loser.

But it has been the subject of much attention in academia.

Drexel says it dismissed Morein in 1995 because he failed, after eight
years, to complete a thesis required for a doctorate in electrical and
computer engineering.

Not to mention the 12 years it took him to get thru high school!
BWAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!


Morein, 50, of Dresher, Pa., contends that he was dismissed only after his
thesis adviser "appropriated" an innovative idea Morein had developed in a
rarefied area of thought called "estimation theory" and arranged to have it
patented.

A contention rejected by three courts. From a 50 YEAR OLD that has
done NOTHING PRODUCTIVE with his life.


In February 2000, Philadelphia Common Pleas Court Judge Esther R. Sylvester
ruled that Morein's adviser indeed had taken his idea.

An idea that was worth nothing, because it didn't work. Just like
Robert Morein, who has never worked a day in his life.


Sylvester held that Morein had been unjustly dismissed and she ordered
Drexel to reinstate him or refund his tuition.

Funnily enough, Drexel AGREED to reinstate Morein, who rejected the
offer because he knew he was and IS a failed loser. Spending daddy's
money to cover up his lack of productivity.

That brought roars of protest from the lions of academia. There is a long
tradition in America of noninterference by the courts in academic decisions.

Backed by every major university in Pennsylvania and organizations
representing thousands of others around the country, Drexel appealed to the
state Superior Court.

The appellate court, by a 2-1 vote, reversed Sylvester in June 2001 and
restored the status quo. Morein was, once again, out at Drexel. And the
time-honored axiom that courts ought to keep their noses out of academic
affairs was reasserted.

The state Supreme Court declined to review the case and, in an ordinary
litigation, that would have been the end of it.

But Morein, in a quixotic gesture that goes steeply against the odds, has
asked the highest court in the land to give him a hearing.

Daddy throws more money down the crapper.

His attorney, Faye Riva Cohen, said the Supreme Court appeal is important
even if it fails because it raises the issue of whether a university has a
right to lay claim to a student's ideas - or intellectual property - without
compensation.

"Any time you are in a Ph.D. program, you are a serf, you are a slave," said
Cohen. Morein "is concerned not only for himself. He feels that what
happened to him is pretty common."

It's called HIGHER EDUCATION, honey. The students aren't in charge,
the UNIVERSITY and PROFESSORS are.


Drexel's attorney, Neil J. Hamburg, called Morein's appeal - and his claim
that his idea was stolen - "preposterous."

"I will eat my shoe if the Supreme Court hears this case," declared Hamburg.
"We're not even going to file a response. He is a brilliant guy, but his
intelligence should be used for the advancement of society rather than
pursuing self-destructive litigation."

No **** sherlock.

The litigation began in 1997, when Morein sued Drexel claiming that a
committee of professors had dumped him after he accused his faculty adviser,
Paul Kalata, of appropriating his idea.

His concept was considered to have potential value for businesses in
minutely measuring the internal functions of machines, industrial processes
and electronic systems.

The field of "estimation theory" is one in which scientists attempt to
calculate what they cannot plainly observe, such as the inside workings of a
nuclear plant or a computer.

My estimation theory? There is NO brain at work inside the head of
Robert Morein, only sawdust.


Prior to Morein's dismissal, Drexel looked into his complaint against Kalata
and concluded that the associate professor had done nothing wrong. Kalata,
through a university lawyer, declined to comment.

At a nonjury trial before Sylvester in 1999, Morein testified that Kalata in
1990 had posed a technical problem for him to study for his thesis. It
related to estimation theory.

Kalata, who did not appear at the trial, said in a 1998 deposition that a
Cherry Hill company for which he was a paid consultant, K-Tron
International, had asked him to develop an alternate estimation method for
it. The company manufactures bulk material feeders and conveyors used in
industrial processes.

Morein testified that, after much study, he experienced "a flash of
inspiration" and came up with a novel mathematical concept to address the
problem Kalata had presented.

Without his knowledge, Morein said, Kalata shared the idea with K-Tron.

K-Tron then applied for a patent, listing Kalata and Morein as co-inventors.

Morein said he agreed "under duress" to the arrangement, but felt "locked
into a highly disadvantageous situation." As a result, he testified, he
became alienated from Kalata.

As events unfolded, Kalata signed over his interest in the patent to K-Tron.
The company never capitalized on the technology and eventually allowed the
patent to lapse. No one made any money from it.

Because it was bogus. Even Kalata was mortified that he was a victim
of this SCAMSTER, Robert Morein.

In 1991, Morein went to the head of Drexel's electrical engineering
department, accused Kalata of appropriating his intellectual property, and
asked for a new faculty adviser.

The staff at Drexel laughed wildly at the ignorance of Robert Morein.

He didn't get one. Instead, a committee of four professors, including
Kalata, was formed to oversee Morein's thesis work.

Four years later, the committee dismissed him, saying he had failed to
complete his thesis.

So Morein ****s up his first couple years, gets new faculty advisers
(a TEAM), and then ****s up again! Brilliant!


Morein claimed that the committee intentionally had undermined him.

Morein makes LOTS of claims that are nonsense. One look thru the
usenet proves it.


Judge Sylvester agreed. In her ruling, Sylvester wrote: "It is this court's
opinion that the defendants were motivated by bad faith and ill will."

So much for political machine judges.

The U.S. Supreme Court receives 7,000 appeals a year and agrees to hear only
about 100 of them.

Hamburg, Drexel's attorney, is betting the high court will reject Morein's
appeal out of hand because its focal point - concerning a student's right to
intellectual property - was not central to the litigation in the
Pennsylvania courts.

Morein said he understands it's a long shot, but he feels he must pursue it.

Just like all the failed "causes" Morein pursues. Heck, he's been
chasing another "Brian McCarty" for years and yet has ZERO impact on
anything.

Failure. Look it up in Websters. You'll see a picture of Robert
Morein. The poster boy for SCAMMING LOSERS.


"I had to seek closure," he said.

Without a doctorate, he said, he has been unable to pursue a career he had
hoped would lead him into research on artificial intelligence.

Who better to tell us about "artificial intelligence".
BWAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!


As it is, Morein lives at home with his father and makes a modest income
from stock investments. He has written a film script that he is trying to
make into a movie. And in the basement of his father's home he is working on
an invention, an industrial pump so powerful it could cut steel with a
bulletlike stream of water.


FAILED STUDENT
FAILED MOVIE MAKER
FAILED SCREENWRITER
FAILED INVESTOR
FAILED DRIVER
FAILED SON
FAILED PARENTS
FAILED INVENTOR
FAILED PLAINTIFF
FAILED HOMOSEXUAL
FAILED HUMAN
FAILED
FAILED

But none of it is what he had imagined for himself.

"I don't really have a replacement career," Morein said. "It's a very
gnawing thing."

On 30/10/03 21:59, in article
. net, "trotsky"
wrote:

Robert Morein wrote:
"trotsky" wrote in message
...


Bill McCullough wrote:

The Stainless Steel Boob Orchestra wrote in message

news:18ttpvg3ai23uheslofprcjqmuli9g2ugi@rdmzrnews txt.nz...

On 28 Oct 2003 11:04:49 -0800, (Bill McCullough)
wrote:



Are these things really as overpriced and under-engineered as everyone
says they are? I see that they sell on Audiogon for around $450 a
pair, is the $1600 MSRP a scam?

These are Gerg's own words on how he 'designed' the product. You
decide whether the speakers are worth $1600.

http://tinyurl.com/qnhp



So, it appears that this guy just ordered some speaker parts, had the
speaker supply house design the crossover (for a fee), screwed the
parts into a cabinet and BINGO!!! instant "audiophile" speaker
company. Is that about the size of it?



Oh dear, another troll. If it's so easy, troll, then do it.


Trolling is hard work. This is shooting ducks in a barrel.


What were the ducks doing in a barrel, Bob? I guess this is just
another hunch, but I'm betting your writing is none too good.

Years of pretending to be a screenwriter/filmmaker have been no more
productive for poor old Bobby then his 20+ years in tow Universities without
attaining a degree (even after suing them).

Great hunch!

Sylvan Morein, DDS
Sad father of Bob


http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/mld/l...ws/4853918.htm

Doctoral student takes intellectual property case to Supreme Court
By L. STUART DITZEN
Philadelphia Inquirer

PHILADELPHIA -Even the professors who dismissed him from a doctoral program
at Drexel University agreed that Robert Morein was uncommonly smart.

They apparently didn't realize that he was uncommonly stubborn too - so much
so that he would mount a court fight all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court
to challenge his dismissal.

The Supremes have already rejected this appeal, btw.

"It's a personality trait I have - I'm a tenacious guy," said Morein, a
pleasantly eccentric man regarded by friends as an inventive genius. "And we
do come to a larger issue here."

An "inventive genius" that has never invented anything. And hardly
"pleasantly" eccentric.

A five-year legal battle between this unusual ex-student and one of
Philadelphia's premier educational institutions has gone largely unnoticed
by the media and the public.

Because no one gives a **** about a 50 year old loser.

But it has been the subject of much attention in academia.

Drexel says it dismissed Morein in 1995 because he failed, after eight
years, to complete a thesis required for a doctorate in electrical and
computer engineering.

Not to mention the 12 years it took him to get thru high school!
BWAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!


Morein, 50, of Dresher, Pa., contends that he was dismissed only after his
thesis adviser "appropriated" an innovative idea Morein had developed in a
rarefied area of thought called "estimation theory" and arranged to have it
patented.

A contention rejected by three courts. From a 50 YEAR OLD that has
done NOTHING PRODUCTIVE with his life.


In February 2000, Philadelphia Common Pleas Court Judge Esther R. Sylvester
ruled that Morein's adviser indeed had taken his idea.

An idea that was worth nothing, because it didn't work. Just like
Robert Morein, who has never worked a day in his life.


Sylvester held that Morein had been unjustly dismissed and she ordered
Drexel to reinstate him or refund his tuition.

Funnily enough, Drexel AGREED to reinstate Morein, who rejected the
offer because he knew he was and IS a failed loser. Spending daddy's
money to cover up his lack of productivity.

That brought roars of protest from the lions of academia. There is a long
tradition in America of noninterference by the courts in academic decisions.

Backed by every major university in Pennsylvania and organizations
representing thousands of others around the country, Drexel appealed to the
state Superior Court.

The appellate court, by a 2-1 vote, reversed Sylvester in June 2001 and
restored the status quo. Morein was, once again, out at Drexel. And the
time-honored axiom that courts ought to keep their noses out of academic
affairs was reasserted.

The state Supreme Court declined to review the case and, in an ordinary
litigation, that would have been the end of it.

But Morein, in a quixotic gesture that goes steeply against the odds, has
asked the highest court in the land to give him a hearing.

Daddy throws more money down the crapper.

His attorney, Faye Riva Cohen, said the Supreme Court appeal is important
even if it fails because it raises the issue of whether a university has a
right to lay claim to a student's ideas - or intellectual property - without
compensation.

"Any time you are in a Ph.D. program, you are a serf, you are a slave," said
Cohen. Morein "is concerned not only for himself. He feels that what
happened to him is pretty common."

It's called HIGHER EDUCATION, honey. The students aren't in charge,
the UNIVERSITY and PROFESSORS are.


Drexel's attorney, Neil J. Hamburg, called Morein's appeal - and his claim
that his idea was stolen - "preposterous."

"I will eat my shoe if the Supreme Court hears this case," declared Hamburg.
"We're not even going to file a response. He is a brilliant guy, but his
intelligence should be used for the advancement of society rather than
pursuing self-destructive litigation."

No **** sherlock.

The litigation began in 1997, when Morein sued Drexel claiming that a
committee of professors had dumped him after he accused his faculty adviser,
Paul Kalata, of appropriating his idea.

His concept was considered to have potential value for businesses in
minutely measuring the internal functions of machines, industrial processes
and electronic systems.

The field of "estimation theory" is one in which scientists attempt to
calculate what they cannot plainly observe, such as the inside workings of a
nuclear plant or a computer.

My estimation theory? There is NO brain at work inside the head of
Robert Morein, only sawdust.


Prior to Morein's dismissal, Drexel looked into his complaint against Kalata
and concluded that the associate professor had done nothing wrong. Kalata,
through a university lawyer, declined to comment.

At a nonjury trial before Sylvester in 1999, Morein testified that Kalata in
1990 had posed a technical problem for him to study for his thesis. It
related to estimation theory.

Kalata, who did not appear at the trial, said in a 1998 deposition that a
Cherry Hill company for which he was a paid consultant, K-Tron
International, had asked him to develop an alternate estimation method for
it. The company manufactures bulk material feeders and conveyors used in
industrial processes.

Morein testified that, after much study, he experienced "a flash of
inspiration" and came up with a novel mathematical concept to address the
problem Kalata had presented.

Without his knowledge, Morein said, Kalata shared the idea with K-Tron.

K-Tron then applied for a patent, listing Kalata and Morein as co-inventors.

Morein said he agreed "under duress" to the arrangement, but felt "locked
into a highly disadvantageous situation." As a result, he testified, he
became alienated from Kalata.

As events unfolded, Kalata signed over his interest in the patent to K-Tron.
The company never capitalized on the technology and eventually allowed the
patent to lapse. No one made any money from it.

Because it was bogus. Even Kalata was mortified that he was a victim
of this SCAMSTER, Robert Morein.

In 1991, Morein went to the head of Drexel's electrical engineering
department, accused Kalata of appropriating his intellectual property, and
asked for a new faculty adviser.

The staff at Drexel laughed wildly at the ignorance of Robert Morein.

He didn't get one. Instead, a committee of four professors, including
Kalata, was formed to oversee Morein's thesis work.

Four years later, the committee dismissed him, saying he had failed to
complete his thesis.

So Morein ****s up his first couple years, gets new faculty advisers
(a TEAM), and then ****s up again! Brilliant!


Morein claimed that the committee intentionally had undermined him.

Morein makes LOTS of claims that are nonsense. One look thru the
usenet proves it.


Judge Sylvester agreed. In her ruling, Sylvester wrote: "It is this court's
opinion that the defendants were motivated by bad faith and ill will."

So much for political machine judges.

The U.S. Supreme Court receives 7,000 appeals a year and agrees to hear only
about 100 of them.

Hamburg, Drexel's attorney, is betting the high court will reject Morein's
appeal out of hand because its focal point - concerning a student's right to
intellectual property - was not central to the litigation in the
Pennsylvania courts.

Morein said he understands it's a long shot, but he feels he must pursue it.

Just like all the failed "causes" Morein pursues. Heck, he's been
chasing another "Brian McCarty" for years and yet has ZERO impact on
anything.

Failure. Look it up in Websters. You'll see a picture of Robert
Morein. The poster boy for SCAMMING LOSERS.


"I had to seek closure," he said.

Without a doctorate, he said, he has been unable to pursue a career he had
hoped would lead him into research on artificial intelligence.

Who better to tell us about "artificial intelligence".
BWAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!


As it is, Morein lives at home with his father and makes a modest income
from stock investments. He has written a film script that he is trying to
make into a movie. And in the basement of his father's home he is working on
an invention, an industrial pump so powerful it could cut steel with a
bulletlike stream of water.


FAILED STUDENT
FAILED MOVIE MAKER
FAILED SCREENWRITER
FAILED INVESTOR
FAILED DRIVER
FAILED SON
FAILED PARENTS
FAILED INVENTOR
FAILED PLAINTIFF
FAILED HOMOSEXUAL
FAILED HUMAN
FAILED
FAILED

But none of it is what he had imagined for himself.

"I don't really have a replacement career," Morein said. "It's a very
gnawing thing."

trotsky wrote in message thlink.net...
Joseph Oberlander wrote:

What part of the word "hunch" don't you understand?


That's all we have to go on, really - since only one person other
than yourself has heard them. Given that the drivers are some of
the lowest priced offerings from their manufacturers, and are also
considered to be their entry level lines, it's not encouraging.


Sure they are, Joe. Just about every major driver manufacture makes
drivers in that price range, and the Silver Flutes are the best value
out of all of them. Why are you so afraid of the truth?

I thought it was all about sound quality. Now, master of the
massive markup, wants to talk about value.

Amazing you you're perspective dictates your position. When you're
the buyer you want value. When you're the seller, people wanting value
are cheap mf'ers.

ScottW

trotsky wrote in message thlink.net...
Joseph Oberlander wrote:

What part of the word "hunch" don't you understand?


That's all we have to go on, really - since only one person other
than yourself has heard them. Given that the drivers are some of
the lowest priced offerings from their manufacturers, and are also
considered to be their entry level lines, it's not encouraging.


Sure they are, Joe. Just about every major driver manufacture makes
drivers in that price range, and the Silver Flutes are the best value
out of all of them. Why are you so afraid of the truth?

I thought it was all about sound quality. Now, master of the
massive markup, wants to talk about value.

Amazing you you're perspective dictates your position. When you're
the buyer you want value. When you're the seller, people wanting value
are cheap mf'ers.

ScottW

trotsky wrote in message ...
ScottW wrote:
"trotsky" wrote in message
...


And my hunch is the speakers sound worse.


Have you heard them? Didn't think so or you would
be sure they sounded worse.


What part of the word "hunch" don't you understand?


The part that gives it more validity than uninformed speculation.
You know, that behavior you complained people were
showing toward your speakers.


Except that doesn't take into account my level of experience.

That is true. You're an extraordinarily experienced hypocrite.

Henry
Kissinger's hunch on what to do in the Middle East would be more valid
than your opinion if you'd seen every classified document ever written
on the subject.


But now you're doing it.
So, it's either ok, or your a hypocrite.
You choose.


See above.

Another Singh copout. Tell us again how your extraordinary
experience culminated in your termination and current status as
unemployed?
Apparently your experience isn't worth much to anyone.

ScottW

trotsky wrote in message ...
ScottW wrote:
"trotsky" wrote in message
...


And my hunch is the speakers sound worse.


Have you heard them? Didn't think so or you would
be sure they sounded worse.


What part of the word "hunch" don't you understand?


The part that gives it more validity than uninformed speculation.
You know, that behavior you complained people were
showing toward your speakers.


Except that doesn't take into account my level of experience.

That is true. You're an extraordinarily experienced hypocrite.

Henry
Kissinger's hunch on what to do in the Middle East would be more valid
than your opinion if you'd seen every classified document ever written
on the subject.


But now you're doing it.
So, it's either ok, or your a hypocrite.
You choose.


See above.

Another Singh copout. Tell us again how your extraordinary
experience culminated in your termination and current status as
unemployed?
Apparently your experience isn't worth much to anyone.

ScottW

trotsky wrote:

Joseph Oberlander wrote:

trotsky wrote:


Have you heard them? Didn't think so or you would
be sure they sounded worse.





What part of the word "hunch" don't you understand?



That's all we have to go on, really - since only one person other
than yourself has heard them. Given that the drivers are some of
the lowest priced offerings from their manufacturers, and are also
considered to be their entry level lines, it's not encouraging.



Sure they are, Joe. Just about every major driver manufacture makes
drivers in that price range, and the Silver Flutes are the best value
out of all of them. Why are you so afraid of the truth?


You missed my point. Why not use their better $60 drivers? Surely
they would sound much better.

As for a ribbon tweeter, there are better alternatives. Madisound
sells the Fountek JP-3.0 ribbon that clearly is a better design.
It also looks quite nice and high-tech while having a smaller
profile. Of course, as $81 each, they should be better.

IMO, they would be much more sellable and if you look - they provide
flat response out to - well - where my cat can't hear anymore. The
Sliverflute YAG-20 drops off 10 db from 5khz to 20khz and the YAG-10,
well, that graph is anything but flat. You'd almost need a midrange
to bump up that 5db drop between 8khz and 4khz.

Actually, that's probably why they sound so good to you - they
are using a Bose-like 4-8khz boost, thereby making it sound
louder where our hearing is most sensitive.

Greg - the simple fact is that while ribbons have good dispersion
and looks, all the really matters is whether the driver, whatever type
it is, provide accurate sound. Tweeters, dual-concentric, ribbon,
electrostatic - it makes no difference. Quality is quality and under $30
surely doesn't buy quality. Certainly nothing made outside of China.

trotsky wrote:

Joseph Oberlander wrote:

trotsky wrote:


Have you heard them? Didn't think so or you would
be sure they sounded worse.





What part of the word "hunch" don't you understand?



That's all we have to go on, really - since only one person other
than yourself has heard them. Given that the drivers are some of
the lowest priced offerings from their manufacturers, and are also
considered to be their entry level lines, it's not encouraging.



Sure they are, Joe. Just about every major driver manufacture makes
drivers in that price range, and the Silver Flutes are the best value
out of all of them. Why are you so afraid of the truth?


You missed my point. Why not use their better $60 drivers? Surely
they would sound much better.

As for a ribbon tweeter, there are better alternatives. Madisound
sells the Fountek JP-3.0 ribbon that clearly is a better design.
It also looks quite nice and high-tech while having a smaller
profile. Of course, as $81 each, they should be better.

IMO, they would be much more sellable and if you look - they provide
flat response out to - well - where my cat can't hear anymore. The
Sliverflute YAG-20 drops off 10 db from 5khz to 20khz and the YAG-10,
well, that graph is anything but flat. You'd almost need a midrange
to bump up that 5db drop between 8khz and 4khz.

Actually, that's probably why they sound so good to you - they
are using a Bose-like 4-8khz boost, thereby making it sound
louder where our hearing is most sensitive.

Greg - the simple fact is that while ribbons have good dispersion
and looks, all the really matters is whether the driver, whatever type
it is, provide accurate sound. Tweeters, dual-concentric, ribbon,
electrostatic - it makes no difference. Quality is quality and under $30
surely doesn't buy quality. Certainly nothing made outside of China.

On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 22:22:39 GMT, Joseph Oberlander
wrote:

Of course, as $81 each, they should be better.

The scary thing is that you apparently seem to believe this, at least
when it benefits your argument.

On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 22:22:39 GMT, Joseph Oberlander
wrote:

Of course, as $81 each, they should be better.

The scary thing is that you apparently seem to believe this, at least
when it benefits your argument.

trotsky wrote:


Doesn't stop the speakers from sounding amazing, though. No shortage of
****heads on the 'net that are unable to appreciate good sound.

Yeah - I guess you could shove a V-8 into an old VW Bug and make it
go fast, but it's not in the league of a modern car once you hit
a few curves.

trotsky wrote:


Doesn't stop the speakers from sounding amazing, though. No shortage of
****heads on the 'net that are unable to appreciate good sound.

Yeah - I guess you could shove a V-8 into an old VW Bug and make it
go fast, but it's not in the league of a modern car once you hit
a few curves.

dave weil wrote:

On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 22:22:39 GMT, Joseph Oberlander
wrote:


Of course, as $81 each, they should be better.


The scary thing is that you apparently seem to believe this, at least
when it benefits your argument.

Have you looked at the Silverflute graphs? They are terrible.
Compared to a good ScanSpeak or Morel tweeter($60 or so), not
even worth wasting your money on.

dave weil wrote:

On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 22:22:39 GMT, Joseph Oberlander
wrote:


Of course, as $81 each, they should be better.


The scary thing is that you apparently seem to believe this, at least
when it benefits your argument.

Have you looked at the Silverflute graphs? They are terrible.
Compared to a good ScanSpeak or Morel tweeter($60 or so), not
even worth wasting your money on.

On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 22:43:52 GMT, Joseph Oberlander
wrote:

dave weil wrote:

On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 22:22:39 GMT, Joseph Oberlander
wrote:


Of course, as $81 each, they should be better.


The scary thing is that you apparently seem to believe this, at least
when it benefits your argument.

Have you looked at the Silverflute graphs? They are terrible.
Compared to a good ScanSpeak or Morel tweeter($60 or so), not
even worth wasting your money on.

You missed the point entirely.

But what's new?

BTW, why don't you quantify what you mean by "terrible"? Relate it to
the other tweeters that you are commenting on.

On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 22:43:52 GMT, Joseph Oberlander
wrote:

dave weil wrote:

On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 22:22:39 GMT, Joseph Oberlander
wrote:


Of course, as $81 each, they should be better.


The scary thing is that you apparently seem to believe this, at least
when it benefits your argument.

Have you looked at the Silverflute graphs? They are terrible.
Compared to a good ScanSpeak or Morel tweeter($60 or so), not
even worth wasting your money on.

You missed the point entirely.

But what's new?

BTW, why don't you quantify what you mean by "terrible"? Relate it to
the other tweeters that you are commenting on.

Joseph Oberlander wrote:
trotsky wrote:

Joseph Oberlander wrote:

trotsky wrote:


Have you heard them? Didn't think so or you would
be sure they sounded worse.






What part of the word "hunch" don't you understand?




That's all we have to go on, really - since only one person other
than yourself has heard them. Given that the drivers are some of
the lowest priced offerings from their manufacturers, and are also
considered to be their entry level lines, it's not encouraging.




Sure they are, Joe. Just about every major driver manufacture makes
drivers in that price range, and the Silver Flutes are the best value
out of all of them. Why are you so afraid of the truth?


You missed my point. Why not use their better $60 drivers? Surely
they would sound much better.


This is interesting, because a similar discussion took place on the
Madisound forum. Somebody had Waveform speakers, and apparently John
Otvos told him the reason he used a $30 Vifa tweeter in them is because
it measured the best. Let me guess: your claim is that if he used a $60
tweeter instead he would've stayed in business.

Joseph Oberlander wrote:
trotsky wrote:

Joseph Oberlander wrote:

trotsky wrote:


Have you heard them? Didn't think so or you would
be sure they sounded worse.






What part of the word "hunch" don't you understand?




That's all we have to go on, really - since only one person other
than yourself has heard them. Given that the drivers are some of
the lowest priced offerings from their manufacturers, and are also
considered to be their entry level lines, it's not encouraging.




Sure they are, Joe. Just about every major driver manufacture makes
drivers in that price range, and the Silver Flutes are the best value
out of all of them. Why are you so afraid of the truth?


You missed my point. Why not use their better $60 drivers? Surely
they would sound much better.


This is interesting, because a similar discussion took place on the
Madisound forum. Somebody had Waveform speakers, and apparently John
Otvos told him the reason he used a $30 Vifa tweeter in them is because
it measured the best. Let me guess: your claim is that if he used a $60
tweeter instead he would've stayed in business.

Joseph Oberlander wrote:
trotsky wrote:


Doesn't stop the speakers from sounding amazing, though. No shortage
of ****heads on the 'net that are unable to appreciate good sound.


Yeah - I guess you could shove a V-8 into an old VW Bug and make it
go fast, but it's not in the league of a modern car once you hit
a few curves.


Joe, you've already admitting you're a troll, so isn't it time to shut
the **** up already?

Joseph Oberlander wrote:
trotsky wrote:


Doesn't stop the speakers from sounding amazing, though. No shortage
of ****heads on the 'net that are unable to appreciate good sound.


Yeah - I guess you could shove a V-8 into an old VW Bug and make it
go fast, but it's not in the league of a modern car once you hit
a few curves.


Joe, you've already admitting you're a troll, so isn't it time to shut
the **** up already?

trotsky wrote:


This is interesting, because a similar discussion took place on the
Madisound forum. Somebody had Waveform speakers, and apparently John
Otvos told him the reason he used a $30 Vifa tweeter in them is because
it measured the best. Let me guess: your claim is that if he used a $60
tweeter instead he would've stayed in business.

No, he had other more serious problems in addition. Of course, I believe in
overbuilding when possible. Few people do anymore.

trotsky wrote:


This is interesting, because a similar discussion took place on the
Madisound forum. Somebody had Waveform speakers, and apparently John
Otvos told him the reason he used a $30 Vifa tweeter in them is because
it measured the best. Let me guess: your claim is that if he used a $60
tweeter instead he would've stayed in business.

No, he had other more serious problems in addition. Of course, I believe in
overbuilding when possible. Few people do anymore.

George M. Middius wrote:

Gregipus Trollipus whined:


Joe, you've already admitting you're a troll, so isn't it time to shut
the **** up already?


I'd like to know why you think you deserve better than the most
unprincipled, insincere trolls. TIA.


Because I'm not gay.

George M. Middius wrote:

Gregipus Trollipus whined:


Joe, you've already admitting you're a troll, so isn't it time to shut
the **** up already?


I'd like to know why you think you deserve better than the most
unprincipled, insincere trolls. TIA.


Because I'm not gay.

"George M. Middius" wrote in message

Gregipus Fellatius lied:

I'd like to know why you think you deserve better than the most
unprincipled, insincere trolls. TIA.

Because I'm not gay.

At least you answered the question, even if your answer is a lie.

I think there's plenty of signs that Singh is not a very happy camper at the
moment. What does he have to be gay about?

"George M. Middius" wrote in message

Gregipus Fellatius lied:

I'd like to know why you think you deserve better than the most
unprincipled, insincere trolls. TIA.

Because I'm not gay.

At least you answered the question, even if your answer is a lie.

I think there's plenty of signs that Singh is not a very happy camper at the
moment. What does he have to be gay about?

George M. Middius wrote:

Gregipus Fellatius lied:


I'd like to know why you think you deserve better than the most
unprincipled, insincere trolls. TIA.



Because I'm not gay.


At least you answered the question, even if your answer is a lie.


George, your trolls are so weak these days they're best described as anemic.

George M. Middius wrote:

Gregipus Fellatius lied:


I'd like to know why you think you deserve better than the most
unprincipled, insincere trolls. TIA.



Because I'm not gay.


At least you answered the question, even if your answer is a lie.


George, your trolls are so weak these days they're best described as anemic.

On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 14:29:55 GMT, trotsky wrote:

George M. Middius wrote:

Gregipus Fellatius lied:


I'd like to know why you think you deserve better than the most
unprincipled, insincere trolls. TIA.



Because I'm not gay.


At least you answered the question, even if your answer is a lie.


George, your trolls are so weak these days they're best described as anemic.

What an impotent reply.

How far the "mighty" have sunk.

On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 14:29:55 GMT, trotsky wrote:

George M. Middius wrote:

Gregipus Fellatius lied:


I'd like to know why you think you deserve better than the most
unprincipled, insincere trolls. TIA.



Because I'm not gay.


At least you answered the question, even if your answer is a lie.


George, your trolls are so weak these days they're best described as anemic.

What an impotent reply.

How far the "mighty" have sunk.

George M. Middius wrote:


Gregipus Fellatius lied:


I'd like to know why you think you deserve better than the most
unprincipled, insincere trolls. TIA.



Because I'm not gay.


At least you answered the question, even if your answer is a lie.

It did always strike me as odd why he is so homophobic. His
worst insults always boil down to homophobic comments.

George M. Middius wrote:


Gregipus Fellatius lied:


I'd like to know why you think you deserve better than the most
unprincipled, insincere trolls. TIA.



Because I'm not gay.


At least you answered the question, even if your answer is a lie.

It did always strike me as odd why he is so homophobic. His
worst insults always boil down to homophobic comments.

George M. Middius wrote:

Another coded come-on from the closeted Sancho Panza.


I'd like to know why you think you deserve better than the most
unprincipled, insincere trolls. TIA.


Because I'm not gay.


At least you answered the question, even if your answer is a lie.


George, your trolls are so weak these days they're best described as anemic.


No, you may not suck my dick.


Just out of curiosity, George, how many gay pride parades have you
participated in?

George M. Middius wrote:

Another coded come-on from the closeted Sancho Panza.


I'd like to know why you think you deserve better than the most
unprincipled, insincere trolls. TIA.


Because I'm not gay.


At least you answered the question, even if your answer is a lie.


George, your trolls are so weak these days they're best described as anemic.


No, you may not suck my dick.


Just out of curiosity, George, how many gay pride parades have you
participated in?

George M. Middius wrote:

Gregipus Closetus needs somebody to help him come out. Where is Paula
now that her tender ministrations are finally needed?


No, you may not suck my dick.



Just out of curiosity, George, how many gay pride parades have you
participated in?


Why do you think anybody is the least bit interested in answering your
asinine questions?


Quid pro quo, Georgie Porgie. QED, too.

George M. Middius wrote:

Gregipus Closetus needs somebody to help him come out. Where is Paula
now that her tender ministrations are finally needed?


No, you may not suck my dick.



Just out of curiosity, George, how many gay pride parades have you
participated in?


Why do you think anybody is the least bit interested in answering your
asinine questions?


Quid pro quo, Georgie Porgie. QED, too.

George M. Middius wrote:

Gurgling gluggily, Gregipus grumbles gaily.


Why do you think anybody is the least bit interested in answering your
asinine questions?



Quid pro quo, Georgie Porgie.


Oopsie! Unless your disease has debilitated you to an extreme degree,
you should be aware that I've asked my question about ten times now,
and you have yet to answer.

And no, you may not suck my dick.


George--all this talk about getting your dick sucked--were you actually
planning on having it reattached?