I building my audio/video system and have a question on which gauge wire to
buy. I going to have 2 in-wall speakers about 25 to 30 feet away from my
receiver, which is a Denon 1905. Is 16 gauge wire enough or should I buy
wire that is larger or smaller? Thanks in advance.

bdowns wrote:
I building my audio/video system and have a question on which gauge wire to
buy. I going to have 2 in-wall speakers about 25 to 30 feet away from my
receiver, which is a Denon 1905. Is 16 gauge wire enough or should I buy
wire that is larger or smaller?

Install #12 wire. You probably won't notice a difference now, but in
about 20 years, who knows where this project might go. Heavier wire
will only cost you a couple of dollars more for the total run.

Whatever you do, don't get caught by the monster. There is absolutely
no reason to buy premium cost high resolution wire with virgin copper
molecules and 23 Karat gold terminations.

On Thu, 08 Dec 2005 10:51:52 GMT, "bdowns" wrote:

I building my audio/video system and have a question on which gauge wire to
buy. I going to have 2 in-wall speakers about 25 to 30 feet away from my
receiver, which is a Denon 1905. Is 16 gauge wire enough or should I buy
wire that is larger or smaller? Thanks in advance.


Yeah, 16 would probably work fine, but since they are in-wall and the
wire will be hidden, go ahead and get 12 AWG.


Regards,

Bruce
Hitting reply is futile, use the following:
).

bdowns wrote:

I building my audio/video system and have a question on which gauge wire to
buy. I going to have 2 in-wall speakers about 25 to 30 feet away from my
receiver, which is a Denon 1905. Is 16 gauge wire enough or should I buy
wire that is larger or smaller? Thanks in advance.

Its's pretty much a case of the bigger the better.

If you buy wire from a Home Depot type outlet it will be quite inexpensive
compared to 'boutique' audio cables so you might as well go the whole hog and
get the largest gauge praticable. It won't cost much but will seriously
*outperform* the snake-oil audiophool junk.

Several decades ago UK pro-audio magazine Studio Sound reviewed speaker cables.
One of the very best performers was 4mm^2 ( we don't use your funny AWG in the
rest of the world btw - but I'm guessing it must be about 10AWG ) house wiring
cable ! Not even multi-standed !

Graham

Are you guys saying plain stranded copper cable sounds as good as "audio"
cable? I'm not arguing, I am just curious if you have ear-tested experience
on this?


"Pooh Bear" wrote in message
...


bdowns wrote:

I building my audio/video system and have a question on which gauge wire
to
buy. I going to have 2 in-wall speakers about 25 to 30 feet away from
my
receiver, which is a Denon 1905. Is 16 gauge wire enough or should I buy
wire that is larger or smaller? Thanks in advance.

Its's pretty much a case of the bigger the better.

If you buy wire from a Home Depot type outlet it will be quite inexpensive
compared to 'boutique' audio cables so you might as well go the whole hog
and
get the largest gauge praticable. It won't cost much but will seriously
*outperform* the snake-oil audiophool junk.

Several decades ago UK pro-audio magazine Studio Sound reviewed speaker
cables.
One of the very best performers was 4mm^2 ( we don't use your funny AWG in
the
rest of the world btw - but I'm guessing it must be about 10AWG ) house
wiring
cable ! Not even multi-standed !

Graham

In article QYWlf.21803$Oq3.19315@trnddc05, "Bill Lorentzen" wrote:
Are you guys saying plain stranded copper cable sounds as good as "audio"
cable? I'm not arguing, I am just curious if you have ear-tested experience
on this?

There are so many kinds of "audio" cable, that calling it audio cable is
only what some manufacturer idea of what audio cable should be.
There are some measurable differences is different types, but those
differences also are speaker dependant.

greg

"Pooh Bear" wrote in message
...


bdowns wrote:

I building my audio/video system and have a question on which gauge wire
to
buy. I going to have 2 in-wall speakers about 25 to 30 feet away from
my
receiver, which is a Denon 1905. Is 16 gauge wire enough or should I buy
wire that is larger or smaller? Thanks in advance.

Its's pretty much a case of the bigger the better.

If you buy wire from a Home Depot type outlet it will be quite inexpensive
compared to 'boutique' audio cables so you might as well go the whole hog
and
get the largest gauge praticable. It won't cost much but will seriously
*outperform* the snake-oil audiophool junk.

Several decades ago UK pro-audio magazine Studio Sound reviewed speaker
cables.
One of the very best performers was 4mm^2 ( we don't use your funny AWG in
the
rest of the world btw - but I'm guessing it must be about 10AWG ) house
wiring
cable ! Not even multi-standed !

Graham

Bill Lorentzen wrote:
Are you guys saying plain stranded copper cable sounds as good as "audio"
cable? I'm not arguing, I am just curious if you have ear-tested experience
on this?


Start piling up the sand bags!

Ron(UK)

--
Lune Valley Audio
Public address system
Hire, Sales, Repairs
www.lunevalleyaudio.com

On Thu, 8 Dec 2005 05:51:52 -0500, bdowns wrote
(in article ) :

I building my audio/video system and have a question on which gauge wire to
buy. I going to have 2 in-wall speakers about 25 to 30 feet away from my
receiver, which is a Denon 1905. Is 16 gauge wire enough or should I buy
wire that is larger or smaller? Thanks in advance.



I've been using jumper cables for short runs.

Regards,

Ty Ford


-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
stuff are at www.tyford.com

Bill Lorentzen wrote:
Are you guys saying plain stranded copper cable sounds as good as "audio"
cable? I'm not arguing, I am just curious if you have ear-tested experience
on this?

Yes!

Pooh Bear wrote:
bdowns wrote:

I building my audio/video system and have a question on which gauge wire to
buy. I going to have 2 in-wall speakers about 25 to 30 feet away from my
receiver, which is a Denon 1905. Is 16 gauge wire enough or should I buy
wire that is larger or smaller? Thanks in advance.

Its's pretty much a case of the bigger the better.

If you buy wire from a Home Depot type outlet it will be quite inexpensive
compared to 'boutique' audio cables so you might as well go the whole hog and
get the largest gauge praticable. It won't cost much but will seriously
*outperform* the snake-oil audiophool junk.

Note that neither the overpriced audiophile cable NOR most of the Home
Depot stranded cables will meet the electrical code for fire resistance.
You do want to use a stranded cable. THHN appliance wire is just fine
and will meet code for residential use.

The low voltage outdoor lighting cable that looks like 12 ga zip cord
is great speaker wire, BUT it will not meet fire code for direct install.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Bill Lorentzen wrote:
Are you guys saying plain stranded copper cable sounds as good as "audio"
cable? I'm not arguing, I am just curious if you have ear-tested experience
on this?

Yes. At least when it comes to speakers. Most of the time. For most
people. Considering the budget. In practice. Theories fall down.

Don't believe the article about speaker wiring in a house that's in the
Home section of today's Washington Post. (http://tinyurl.com/83tbq)
They say that speaker wires are susceptable to interference and should
be kept four feet from electrical wiring. I suppose that if there's a
feedback point right at the amplifier's speaker terminals (rare these
days) some hum picked up by the cables could get injected back into the
amplifier's low level audio path, but it's highly unlikely.

Since I live not far from the Brooklyn Bridge, I simply go clip a
length of two-inch-thick suspension cable and use that as my speaker
wire. It has a wee bit of excess inductance and doesn't go around
corners so well, but everybody who visits my home is extremely
impressed.

In article .com, "Mike Rivers" wrote:

Bill Lorentzen wrote:
Are you guys saying plain stranded copper cable sounds as good as "audio"
cable? I'm not arguing, I am just curious if you have ear-tested experience
on this?

Yes. At least when it comes to speakers. Most of the time. For most
people. Considering the budget. In practice. Theories fall down.

Don't believe the article about speaker wiring in a house that's in the
Home section of today's Washington Post. (http://tinyurl.com/83tbq)
They say that speaker wires are susceptable to interference and should
be kept four feet from electrical wiring. I suppose that if there's a
feedback point right at the amplifier's speaker terminals (rare these
days) some hum picked up by the cables could get injected back into the
amplifier's low level audio path, but it's highly unlikely.

I would avoid long parallel runs next to AC. Speaker wires are suseptable to interference,
but it usually has to be severe. Strong AM radio stations can often be heard through
mechanisms of demodulation and mixing in the amplifier through the speaker outputs. You can get
common mode interference like this where twisting does not matter, but shielding does. RF torroids
on the speaker outputs will cut down the common mode interference. Where was that I just read some
advice that twisted pair speaker cable is much preferred to regular parallel pairs. If I had my
choice, I would use shielded speaker wires.

greg

"David Satz" wrote in message
oups.com...
Since I live not far from the Brooklyn Bridge, I simply go clip a
length of two-inch-thick suspension cable and use that as my speaker
wire. It has a wee bit of excess inductance and doesn't go around
corners so well, but everybody who visits my home is extremely
impressed.

LOL!!!

"Bill Lorentzen" wrote ...
Are you guys saying plain stranded copper cable sounds
as good as "audio" cable?

Yes. And furthermore they are saying that plain solid copper
cable sounds as good as "botique, snake-oil, monster" cable.
You could use ordinary power wiring cable (NM non-metalic
sheathed) which the electricians have in big rolls on their truck
and they are very familiar with installing. Clearly not made for
portable aplications, but well suited for in-wall installation.

Richard Crowley wrote:
"Bill Lorentzen" wrote ...
Are you guys saying plain stranded copper cable sounds
as good as "audio" cable?

Yes. And furthermore they are saying that plain solid copper
cable sounds as good as "botique, snake-oil, monster" cable.
You could use ordinary power wiring cable (NM non-metalic
sheathed) which the electricians have in big rolls on their truck
and they are very familiar with installing. Clearly not made for
portable aplications, but well suited for in-wall installation.

I'm not going to say this, because I think I can hear a difference
between solid and stranded cable. I don't know why, and it certainly
has nothing to do with the skin effect if you have done the math.

Ask your electrician for THHN, which they probably have plenty of
on the truck as well.
--scott

Also, I think NM is crappy stuff for power applications too, and you
will notice that it's not code for commercial installs either. But
that's an argument for another newsgroup.
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

bdowns wrote:

I building my audio/video system and have a question on which gauge wire to
buy. I going to have 2 in-wall speakers about 25 to 30 feet away from my
receiver, which is a Denon 1905. Is 16 gauge wire enough or should I buy
wire that is larger or smaller? Thanks in advance.

Much good advice so far. Bottom line is that this is a job that you
only want to do once, so spend the extra two dollars and install 12
gauge instead of 16. Since it's inside the wall you should go with a
cable that's rated for in wall use (fire/electrical) in your locale.
For the US it's the National Electric Code.

Here's a good primer.
http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/...akercables.php

Don't let anybody sell you expensive snake-oil magic speaker cable.

//Walt

"Bill Lorentzen" wrote in message
news:QYWlf.21803$Oq3.19315@trnddc05...
Are you guys saying plain stranded copper cable sounds as good as "audio"
cable? I'm not arguing, I am just curious if you have ear-tested
experience on this?

'Audio cable' is just plain stranded copper with the words 'audio cable'
printed on it and the price jacked up. If it says 'Monster Cable' in
addition, the price is jacked up another 70%.

In article ,
Richard Crowley wrote:

Are you guys saying plain stranded copper cable sounds
as good as "audio" cable?

Yes. And furthermore they are saying that plain solid copper
cable sounds as good as "botique, snake-oil, monster" cable.
You could use ordinary power wiring cable (NM non-metalic
sheathed) which the electricians have in big rolls on their truck
and they are very familiar with installing. Clearly not made for
portable aplications, but well suited for in-wall installation.

I've been told that using Romex (or similar nonmetallic-sheath)
power-wiring cable)for in-wall low-level (speaker) signal
applications is contrary to the Electrical Code requirements, at least
in many places here in the US.

This has nothing to do with whether Romex can handle speaker-level
signals safely (it can, without question) and well (it does, I
believe).

It has to do, I'm told, with making sure that at some point in the
future, somebody unfamiliar with the installation doesn't open up one
of the junction boxes, confuse the Romex mains wiring and the Romex
speaker wiring, and make an inappropriate bridging or connection
between the two. Dumping 120VAC into your speakers or back into your
amplifier's output stage is a fine way to cause instantaneous leakage
of all of the Magic Blue Smoke, and perhaps cause a fire.

Competent electrical contractors should have access to types of
cable which meets the requirements for in-wall speaker applications.
I gather that here in the U.S., the relevant rules are defined in
Articles 640 and 725 of the National Electric Code... you're probably
looking for a CL2- or CL3-rated cable.

I agree with those who have suggested going to 12-gauge rather than
using 16-gauge. The cost difference should be minimal, and it'll help
ensure that you could put a speaker with a difficult (low or uneven)
impedance at the end of the line and not suffer from significant
changes in frequency response due to the cable's series resistance.

--
Dave Platt AE6EO
Hosting the Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!

In article , (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
Richard Crowley wrote:
"Bill Lorentzen" wrote ...
Are you guys saying plain stranded copper cable sounds
as good as "audio" cable?

Yes. And furthermore they are saying that plain solid copper
cable sounds as good as "botique, snake-oil, monster" cable.
You could use ordinary power wiring cable (NM non-metalic
sheathed) which the electricians have in big rolls on their truck
and they are very familiar with installing. Clearly not made for
portable aplications, but well suited for in-wall installation.

I'm not going to say this, because I think I can hear a difference
between solid and stranded cable. I don't know why, and it certainly
has nothing to do with the skin effect if you have done the math.

Ask your electrician for THHN, which they probably have plenty of
on the truck as well.
--scott

Also, I think NM is crappy stuff for power applications too, and you
will notice that it's not code for commercial installs either. But
that's an argument for another newsgroup.

I saw a THHN 500 ft, spool of 12g for $70. I am guessing you prefer stranded.
There was a time in the 80's where some writers in Stereophile were
really liking the solid stuff. The THNN was a single conductor BTW.

greg

GregS wrote:

I saw a THHN 500 ft, spool of 12g for $70. I am guessing you prefer stranded.
There was a time in the 80's where some writers in Stereophile were
really liking the solid stuff.

Those people (or people like them) like all sorts of nutty things.
There was a time when 300 ohm twin lead (pre-cable-TV antenna cable)
was the darling speaker cable. The conductors in that stuff are never
larger than AWG 20.

Dave Platt wrote:

Competent electrical contractors should have access to types of
cable which meets the requirements for in-wall speaker applications.

I'm sure they do, but I'll bet that such wire is pretty light gauge,
similar to doorbell or thermostat wire.

In rec.audio.tech Dave Platt wrote:


Competent electrical contractors should have access to types of
cable which meets the requirements for in-wall speaker applications.
I gather that here in the U.S., the relevant rules are defined in
Articles 640 and 725 of the National Electric Code... you're probably
looking for a CL2- or CL3-rated cable.

I agree with those who have suggested going to 12-gauge rather than
using 16-gauge. The cost difference should be minimal, and it'll help
ensure that you could put a speaker with a difficult (low or uneven)
impedance at the end of the line and not suffer from significant
changes in frequency response due to the cable's series resistance.



Locally the Home Depot has 12 guage in wall speaker wire for very little.
I think just over $1 per metre. Nice green colour to -)

Nick
--
---------------------------------------
"Digital the new ice fishing"
---------------------------------------

"Bill Lorentzen" wrote in message
news:QYWlf.21803$Oq3.19315@trnddc05...
Are you guys saying plain stranded copper cable sounds as good as "audio"
cable? I'm not arguing, I am just curious if you have ear-tested
experience on this?


"Pooh Bear" wrote in message
...


bdowns wrote:

I building my audio/video system and have a question on which gauge wire
to
buy. I going to have 2 in-wall speakers about 25 to 30 feet away
from my
receiver, which is a Denon 1905. Is 16 gauge wire enough or should I buy
wire that is larger or smaller? Thanks in advance.

Its's pretty much a case of the bigger the better.

If you buy wire from a Home Depot type outlet it will be quite
inexpensive
compared to 'boutique' audio cables so you might as well go the whole hog
and
get the largest gauge praticable. It won't cost much but will seriously
*outperform* the snake-oil audiophool junk.

Several decades ago UK pro-audio magazine Studio Sound reviewed speaker
cables.
One of the very best performers was 4mm^2 ( we don't use your funny AWG
in the
rest of the world btw - but I'm guessing it must be about 10AWG ) house
wiring
cable ! Not even multi-standed !

I suspect that's what "you guys" are saying. If they aren't--I am.

I bought a 40' coil of AWG12 wire for $2.67 a few years ago. The copper
weighs 1.276 lbs. Since copper itself, at the refinery, is selling for
$2/lb, the value of the copper in this wire is now $2.55 !

Norm Strong

Competent electrical contractors should have access to types of
cable which meets the requirements for in-wall speaker applications.

I'm sure they do, but I'll bet that such wire is pretty light gauge,
similar to doorbell or thermostat wire.


These guys (electrical contractors, specifically the NJATC) are doing a lot
of training for audio applications these days. The training hasn't reached
everywhere, but some electrical guys "get it." These are probably the guys
Dave was referring to.

If they've been doing any home theater or distributed audio work,they
probably have 16/14 gauge 4-conductor cable on a spool. It's not perfect,
but far better than that old telephone/doorbell wire. Good enough for
surround and ambience speakers, I suppose, but not what I'd prefer on the
main channels.

-John O

In article ,
John O wrote:

These guys (electrical contractors, specifically the NJATC) are doing a lot
of training for audio applications these days. The training hasn't reached
everywhere, but some electrical guys "get it." These are probably the guys
Dave was referring to.

Yup. "Integrated wiring" seems to be the big thing these days...
running CAT-5-or-better networking cable, 75-ohm satellite-grade coax,
and good-quality speaker wiring in a single bundle.

If they've been doing any home theater or distributed audio work,they
probably have 16/14 gauge 4-conductor cable on a spool. It's not perfect,
but far better than that old telephone/doorbell wire. Good enough for
surround and ambience speakers, I suppose, but not what I'd prefer on the
main channels.

One could have them pull a single run of 14-gauge 4-conductor cable
per speaker, and then use two wires per side of the connection... this
would be equivalent to an 11-gauge pair, as far as series resistance
goes. Ought to be heavy enough for a 20- or 30-foot run with most
loudspeaker loads... about .1 ohm at 35 feet.

I've seen people recommend a "star-quad" hookup configuration - take
the wires which are in diagonally-opposite positions in the four-wire
twist, and connect them in parallel at each end. This results in a
cable which has a slightly lower series inductance, and a slightly
higher shunt capacitance than you'd get if you used a single pair of
equivalent wire gauge - not a bad thing if you're driving a
low-impedance speaker load from a competent amplifier.

--
Dave Platt AE6EO
Hosting the Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!

David Satz wrote:

Since I live not far from the Brooklyn Bridge, I simply go clip a
length of two-inch-thick suspension cable and use that as my speaker
wire.

Do describe how you terminate these wires at both the speaker and
amplifier ends.

It has a wee bit of excess inductance and doesn't go around
corners so well, but everybody who visits my home is extremely
impressed.

And is that not what is most important?

--
================================================== ======================
Michael Kesti | "And like, one and one don't make
| two, one and one make one."
mrkesti at comcast dot net | - The Who, Bargain

Bill Lorentzen wrote:

Are you guys saying plain stranded copper cable sounds as good as "audio"
cable? I'm not arguing, I am just curious if you have ear-tested experience
on this?

Not only tested by ear but Studio Sound also checked the impulse response with
*test instruments* ! The audiophools hate that kind of supporting data.

Audio isn't really high enough frequency to suffer from serious skin effect
issues and fine multi-standed wire doesn't help anyway since the individual
strands aren't insulated from each other. It does flex more easily though for
your convenience but that's hardly worth maybe 30-100 x the cost !

Graham

GregS wrote:

In article .com, "Mike Rivers" wrote:

Bill Lorentzen wrote:
Are you guys saying plain stranded copper cable sounds as good as "audio"
cable? I'm not arguing, I am just curious if you have ear-tested experience
on this?

Yes. At least when it comes to speakers. Most of the time. For most
people. Considering the budget. In practice. Theories fall down.

Don't believe the article about speaker wiring in a house that's in the
Home section of today's Washington Post. (http://tinyurl.com/83tbq)
They say that speaker wires are susceptable to interference and should
be kept four feet from electrical wiring. I suppose that if there's a
feedback point right at the amplifier's speaker terminals (rare these
days) some hum picked up by the cables could get injected back into the
amplifier's low level audio path, but it's highly unlikely.

I would avoid long parallel runs next to AC. Speaker wires are suseptable to interference,
but it usually has to be severe. Strong AM radio stations can often be heard through
mechanisms of demodulation and mixing in the amplifier through the speaker outputs. You can get
common mode interference like this where twisting does not matter, but shielding does. RF torroids
on the speaker outputs will cut down the common mode interference. Where was that I just read some
advice that twisted pair speaker cable is much preferred to regular parallel pairs. If I had my
choice, I would use shielded speaker wires.

When speaker cables appear to pick up AM radio it's typically the older amplifers with slow output devices that
suffer. They demodulate the RF and inject some audio into the feedback loop.

Modern fast devices don't seem to suffer. Modern design practice likely helps too.The last time I came across the
effect was ~ 30 yrs back.

Twisted pairs makes sense if you find it.

Graham

Richard Crowley wrote:

"Bill Lorentzen" wrote ...
Are you guys saying plain stranded copper cable sounds
as good as "audio" cable?

Yes. And furthermore they are saying that plain solid copper
cable sounds as good as "botique, snake-oil, monster" cable.
You could use ordinary power wiring cable (NM non-metalic
sheathed) which the electricians have in big rolls on their truck
and they are very familiar with installing. Clearly not made for
portable aplications, but well suited for in-wall installation.

Absolutely.

With in wall wiring it's worth the trouble to fit some speakon
connectors on a panel and go the last few feet with some nice flexible
cord.

Graham

"bdowns" wrote in message
...
I building my audio/video system and have a question on which gauge wire to
buy. I going to have 2 in-wall speakers about 25 to 30 feet away from
my receiver, which is a Denon 1905. Is 16 gauge wire enough or should I buy
wire that is larger or smaller? Thanks in advance.

16 awg is fine for 4 or 8 Ohm speakers. You could get away with 18 if they
are 8 Ohm,
John

In rec.audio.tech David Satz wrote:
Since I live not far from the Brooklyn Bridge, I simply go clip a
length of two-inch-thick suspension cable and use that as my speaker
wire. It has a wee bit of excess inductance and doesn't go around
corners so well, but everybody who visits my home is extremely
impressed.

Cool! Are you entertaining purchase offers on the bridge itself?

bdowns wrote:
I building my audio/video system and have a question on which gauge wire
to
buy. I going to have 2 in-wall speakers about 25 to 30 feet away
from my
receiver, which is a Denon 1905. Is 16 gauge wire enough or should I buy
wire that is larger or smaller?


Home Depot sells "low voltage outdoor lighting wire" that is 12 guage. It
looks like heavy duty zip cord or heater cord. It works well and is cheap.

Don't waste your money on 'black magic' boutique wires. Snake oil premiums
run in the thousands. Avoid them.


--
Best Regards,

Mark A. Weiss, P.E.
www.mwcomms.com
-

"Pooh Bear" wrote in message
...


GregS wrote:

In article
.com, "Mike Rivers"
wrote:

Bill Lorentzen wrote:
Are you guys saying plain stranded copper cable sounds as good
as "audio"
cable? I'm not arguing, I am just curious if you have
ear-tested experience
on this?

Yes. At least when it comes to speakers. Most of the time. For
most
people. Considering the budget. In practice. Theories fall down.

Don't believe the article about speaker wiring in a house that's
in the
Home section of today's Washington Post.
(http://tinyurl.com/83tbq)
They say that speaker wires are susceptable to interference and
should
be kept four feet from electrical wiring. I suppose that if
there's a
feedback point right at the amplifier's speaker terminals (rare
these
days) some hum picked up by the cables could get injected back
into the
amplifier's low level audio path, but it's highly unlikely.

I would avoid long parallel runs next to AC. Speaker wires are
suseptable to interference,
but it usually has to be severe. Strong AM radio stations can
often be heard through
mechanisms of demodulation and mixing in the amplifier through the
speaker outputs. You can get
common mode interference like this where twisting does not matter,
but shielding does. RF torroids
on the speaker outputs will cut down the common mode interference.
Where was that I just read some
advice that twisted pair speaker cable is much preferred to
regular parallel pairs. If I had my
choice, I would use shielded speaker wires.

When speaker cables appear to pick up AM radio it's typically the
older amplifers with slow output devices that
suffer. They demodulate the RF and inject some audio into the
feedback loop.

Modern fast devices don't seem to suffer. Modern design practice
likely helps too.The last time I came across the
effect was ~ 30 yrs back.

Twisted pairs makes sense if you find it.

Graham


That old one again, eh?

To demodulate AM you need non-linearity - a diode. Agreed every
bipolar transistor has at least one, but if the associated circuit is
properly designed then that diode should be forward biased and unable
to detect per se.

The main problem with amps detecting was poor and cheap basic design.
Good kit - like Quad, Thresham etc - never suffered.


--
Woody

harrogate2 at ntlworld dot com

"Bill Lorentzen" wrote in message
news:QYWlf.21803$Oq3.19315@trnddc05...
Are you guys saying plain stranded copper cable sounds as good as "audio"
cable?

Plain stranded copper cable *is* "audio cable".

I'm not arguing, I am just curious if you have ear-tested experience on
this?

Definately, its been ear-tested, bench-tested, tested via scientific
analysis, etc.

In article ,
Mark & Mary Ann Weiss wrote:



bdowns wrote:
I building my audio/video system and have a question on which gauge wire
to
buy. I going to have 2 in-wall speakers about 25 to 30 feet away
from my
receiver, which is a Denon 1905. Is 16 gauge wire enough or should I buy
wire that is larger or smaller?


Home Depot sells "low voltage outdoor lighting wire" that is 12 guage. It
looks like heavy duty zip cord or heater cord. It works well and is cheap.

It is also made of vinyl, and burns like an ammunition dump when you
light it. Does NOT pass vertical flame test, will NOT meet fire code
for in-wall installation.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Are you guys saying plain stranded copper cable sounds as good as
"audio"
cable?

In my personal experience, yes. Some years back I inherited a bunch of
very fat Monster speaker cable from a defunct hi-fi store. Swapping
back & forth between it & 14/2 SJ cable provided no audible difference
whatsoever. This with a high end Carver amp & KEF speakers, so it was a
system capable of defining any distinctions had they existed.

Scott Fraser

Scott Fraser wrote:
Are you guys saying plain stranded copper cable sounds as good as
"audio"
cable?

In my personal experience, yes. Some years back I inherited a bunch of
very fat Monster speaker cable from a defunct hi-fi store. Swapping
back & forth between it & 14/2 SJ cable provided no audible difference
whatsoever. This with a high end Carver amp & KEF speakers, so it was a
system capable of defining any distinctions had they existed.

I don't think I would put "high end" and "Carver amp" in the same sentence
at all. And the KEF speakers shouldn't be too bizarre a load.

I remember checking the MIT cables out on Gabe's old WATT/Puppies. They
definitely sounded _different_ than conventional stranded cable... but
after a little listening, it was clear that they were not better but
actually worse.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

On Thu, 08 Dec 2005 13:57:04 GMT, "Bill Lorentzen"
wrote:

Are you guys saying plain stranded copper cable sounds as good as "audio"
cable? I'm not arguing, I am just curious if you have ear-tested experience
on this?

Yes, absolutely, no question. In the serious audio newsgroups, there's
even a $5,000 or so pool of money for anyone who can demonsrate an
ability to hear differences among cables. That money's been on the
table for about six years now, and no one has even *tried* to collect
it. You see lots of wild claims about 'cable sound', but no one steps
up to the plate. It's not even a bet, you just prove your point and
collect the prize!

--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

I don't think I would put "high end" and "Carver amp" in the same
sentence
at all.

Hey, now, you watch your mouth! What I mean is it wasn't an Alesis or
Samson amp, but something where there was a chance of actually hearing
something. This was an M1.0t, which was in a whole other ballpark than
all those crappy Carver switching PA amps.

And the KEF speakers shouldn't be too bizarre a load.

Almost 20 years old these KEFs still amaze with their resolution of
midrange detail.

I remember checking the MIT cables out on Gabe's old WATT/Puppies.
They
definitely sounded _different_ than conventional stranded cable... but
after a little listening, it was clear that they were not better but
actually worse.
--scott

Don't those have capacitors in one end, & are intended to be aimed in
the direction of signal flow?

Scott Fraser