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#41
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cheap adat to usb
"Mike Rivers" wrote in message ... George's Pro Sound Co. wrote: my new personus 24.4.2 will be wireless to the stage What do you use to do that? stndard wifi, presonus has a program similar to yamaha's studio manager The computer can talk WiFi, but how do you get the console to talk WiFi? Is there a Firewire-WiFi interface? That usually means that the console has a USB port that allows it to be controlled from a computer, and that a remote console program can be used to control the computer from a remote computer over a network running over WiFi. That's how Studio Manager works for Yamaha digital consoles. |
#42
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cheap adat to usb
"Les Cargill" wrote in message ... $379 is about what they went for. Since Fostex recommended the EWS88-D, that's what I got. It was about half that... Ca. $199 for just one set of ADAT connectors. |
#43
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"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
... You can boot XP with either LILO or GRUB, and I was booting '95 and '98 with LILO back around when these recorders started being available. Sorry, I have no idea what you're talking about here. FYI LILO is a boot manager that allows you to interactively select which partition you want to boot. Win98 will boot off of any FAT or FAT32 partition, but its Defrag and Chkdsk won't work well on partitions much larger than 128 GB. MS says that FAT32 will support partions up to 2 TB. http://support.microsoft.com/kb/154997 I suspect that if you boot Win98 off of a 2 TB partition on a 2 TB hard drive, and dual-boot XP for defragging and scanning, you could have a workable system. Or you could partition the 2 TB hard drive with a bunch of FAT32 partitions, none larger than 128 GB. That's 16 or more partitions! From personal experience, FAT32 gets to be kind of ugly for really large hard drives, especially if they are full of files. Note that handling partitions 2 TB takes a little special mouth holding, even with XP. Now the idea of booting XP to use a couple of tiny disk utilities does tax the mind, but you sorta asked... ;-) |
#44
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cheap adat to usb
In article ,
Les Cargill wrote: Optical interfaces that do 100BaseTX are commonplace. It's a COTS TOSLINK optical part, or at least the guy's blog said it was. The guy with the blog, huh? Well, you can belive him, or you can take a look at the real data sheet: http://www.wavefrontsemi.com/index.p...productdocsoft He's right, though. The physical interface is the same TOSLINK transceiver that is used for S-PDIF over fibre. The Wavefront chip is just used to interface the digital datastream with a computer processor. The good news is that the actual protocol is pretty well documented in the Wavefront manuals, so someone dedicated could probably program an FPGA to do the synch and lock stuff. It wouldn't be an easy job; I think it would be worth a master's thesis, probably what gus baird called a "level 5 problem." Sure, it uses standard Toshiba optical-to-digital parts for the gozintas and gozoutas, but the thing that makes it ADAT Optical (tm) is the Wavefront chip. I suppose you could design your own, but for eight bucks (or three if you buy enough of them) why bother? That's the basic point, yes. Eight dollars is still very cheap, cheaper than what it takes to do MADI. Much as I am a fan of MADI, I have to admit that lightpipe is cheap, universal, and hard to screw up for short runs. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#45
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cheap adat to usb
Arny Krueger wrote:
The computer can talk WiFi, but how do you get the console to talk WiFi? Is there a Firewire-WiFi interface? That usually means that the console has a USB port that allows it to be controlled from a computer, and that a remote console program can be used to control the computer from a remote computer over a network running over WiFi. So it's really a (remote) computer networked (over WiFi) to a computer that's connected via USB to the console. It's not that the console is configured to network via WiFi, but rather, the optional computer to which it's connected. Another "but first you gotta" thing, in this case add a computer, and in this case a not yet released piece of software to make the console remote controllable. -- "Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge of audio." - John Watkinson |
#46
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cheap adat to usb
Mike Rivers wrote:
That's just one problem. Actually it's easy to find one - RME. It's expensive, though. And because RME is inclined to build everything themselves, it might not use the Wavefront chips, though it probably uses the Toshiba optical assemblies. It doesn't use the Wavefronts, no. RME uses their own FPGAs. The problem is that cheap ADAT to USB interfaces are hard to find. And that doesn't have anything to do with the availability of parts, it has everything to do with the potential market. Apparently no manufacturer thinks it's big enough to put their time into developing a product. You think ADAT to USB is expensive, look for MADI or TDIF to USB.... Small production products are expensive. It's just that way, and people have become spoiled by the outrageously low costs of mass production. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#47
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cheap adat to usb
Scott Dorsey wrote:
You think ADAT to USB is expensive, look for MADI or TDIF to USB.... Small production products are expensive. I don't know that there's much of anything new coming out with TDIF. That may have run its course, but I'm surprised that MADI hasn't picked up any real steam. Or AES 50 (if I got the number right) - lotsa channels over a single coax. Everybody seems to have trouble with Firewire so I'd think that a couple of companies that make multi-channel Firewire interfaces by the ten thousands would tool up to make both ends of a MADI interface. It's just that way, and people have become spoiled by the outrageously low costs of mass production. Yup, and so has music. -- "Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge of audio." - John Watkinson |
#48
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On Fri, 05 Mar 2010 09:47:32 -0500, Mike Rivers
wrote: analog outputs, so I expect that many are using it just as 8 mic preamps and don't care about the ADAT I/O (and are bitching that they could have made it cheaper The ada8000 mic pres only drive the ADC and have no connection to the analog outputs. The pres. can't really be used standalone that I know of. There's been times when I really wanted to have a direct out of the pre so if there is a way let me know. |
#49
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cheap adat to usb
David Light wrote:
The ada8000 mic pres only drive the ADC and have no connection to the analog outputs. The pres. can't really be used standalone that I know of. There's been times when I really wanted to have a direct out of the pre so if there is a way let me know. What happens if you connect the ADAT Out to the ADAT In? Will that get the mic input to the analog output? Of course it's going through an A/D and D/A conversion (something that most people would rather sell their sister into slavery than do) and unless you have an ADAT splitter, you can't get both analog and digital output, but if you need to get mics up to line level maybe it'll work. I just assumed that it had a "monitor" function like just about every other similar (though more expensive) device has. But if the intent (as the web site suggests) is that it be used as an expander for the digital console, then that's where you get your monitoring. -- "Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge of audio." - John Watkinson |
#50
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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cheap adat to usb
Mike Rivers wrote:
David Light wrote: The ada8000 mic pres only drive the ADC and have no connection to the analog outputs. The pres. can't really be used standalone that I know of. There's been times when I really wanted to have a direct out of the pre so if there is a way let me know. What happens if you connect the ADAT Out to the ADAT In? Will that get the mic input to the analog output? Yes. Of course it's going through an A/D and D/A conversion (something that most people would rather sell their sister into slavery than do) and unless you have an ADAT splitter, you can't get both analog and digital output, but if you need to get mics up to line level maybe it'll work. The pres aren't that good, either. I just assumed that it had a "monitor" function like just about every other similar (though more expensive) device has. But if the intent (as the web site suggests) is that it be used as an expander for the digital console, then that's where you get your monitoring. There ya go. That's all it does. -- Les Cargill |
#51
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cheap adat to usb
"Mike Rivers" wrote in message ... Arny Krueger wrote: The computer can talk WiFi, but how do you get the console to talk WiFi? Is there a Firewire-WiFi interface? That usually means that the console has a USB port that allows it to be controlled from a computer, and that a remote console program can be used to control the computer from a remote computer over a network running over WiFi. So it's really a (remote) computer networked (over WiFi) to a computer that's connected via USB to the console. It's not that the console is configured to network via WiFi, but rather, the optional computer to which it's connected. yup. I suspect that the need for a computer intermediary will eventually go away. There's nothing that the PC does at either end that couldn't be one with a chip running *nix. The console should have a mini-coax fitting for the wifi antenna and a RJ45 for ethernet, and there should be a portable control surface tailored to the console with similar interfaces. Another "but first you gotta" thing, in this case add a computer, and in this case a not yet released piece of software to make the console remote controllable. I suspect that the software will be out in due course. My initial disappointment with the Presonus 24.4.2 was the limited parametric eq on the channel strips. The O1V96 still looks attractive to me in that size class. |
#52
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cheap adat to usb
"Mike Rivers" wrote in message ... David Light wrote: The ada8000 mic pres only drive the ADC and have no connection to the analog outputs. The pres. can't really be used standalone that I know of. There's been times when I really wanted to have a direct out of the pre so if there is a way let me know. What happens if you connect the ADAT Out to the ADAT In? Will that get the mic input to the analog output? I've never tried it. It could work if there isn't a clocking problem. Of course it's going through an A/D and D/A conversion (something that most people would rather sell their sister into slavery than do) The ADA converters in the ADA8000 are not that bad. The Alesis chips are second (or later) generation chips and really pretty good performers. I suspect that they took plenty of abuse for their first generation efforts. and unless you have an ADAT splitter, you can't get both analog and digital output, I suspect that a good Toslink spiltter would do the job. but if you need to get mics up to line level maybe it'll work. I would like to hear from someone that actually made it work. Many devices with digital inputs and outputs can't be looped without some source of external clock. I just assumed that it had a "monitor" function like just about every other similar (though more expensive) device has. Nope. But if the intent (as the web site suggests) is that it be used as an expander for the digital console, then that's where you get your monitoring. Yes. If there was an analog bypass, it would only be frosting on the cake. They are effective and an excellent value. My complaint with the ADA8000 is that the mic preamps are not well-protected from either transients or EMI. One of the mic pres in one of my 2 ADA8000s (now about 4 years old) stopped having a balanced input - IOW half of one input stage fried. If I didn't have other spare inputs I would happily replace it with a new one just like it. For the money it can't be beat. |
#53
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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cheap adat to usb
"Mike Rivers" wrote in message ... Scott Dorsey wrote: You think ADAT to USB is expensive, look for MADI or TDIF to USB.... Small production products are expensive. I don't know that there's much of anything new coming out with TDIF. That may have run its course, but I'm surprised that MADI hasn't picked up any real steam. Or AES 50 (if I got the number right) - lotsa channels over a single coax. Everybody seems to have trouble with Firewire so I'd think that a couple of companies that make multi-channel Firewire interfaces by the ten thousands would tool up to make both ends of a MADI interface. It's just that way, and people have become spoiled by the outrageously low costs of mass production. Yup, and so has music. I suspect that a lot of the drive for ADAT implementations comes out of the rise in popularity of digital consoles. The so-called clock rate limitation of 8-channel TOSlink has pretty well lost its credibility now that delivery media based on bandwidth 24 KHz bandwidth has dropped out of the mainstream marketplace. ADAT is a good interface for a widely-needed purpose - its length limitations aren't troubling in a control room context. Once there is a de facto industry standard for digital snakes, ADAT may fall by the wayside. So far neither the AES nor IEEE nor any proprietary source has delivered. |
#54
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Arny Krueger wrote:
I suspect that the software will be out in due course. That's what PreSonus says. My initial disappointment with the Presonus 24.4.2 was the limited parametric eq on the channel strips. It's better than on the 16-channel version which just had a button to switch the bandwidth of the sweepable high-mid frequency. The "HI-Q" position is just a but less than 1 octave, not very high Q. -- "Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge of audio." - John Watkinson |
#55
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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cheap adat to usb
"Mike Rivers" wrote in message ... Arny Krueger wrote: I suspect that the software will be out in due course. That's what PreSonus says. I think they will deliver. AFAIK they've been pretty good on their promises in the past. My initial disappointment with the Presonus 24.4.2 was the limited parametric eq on the channel strips. It's better than on the 16-channel version which just had a button to switch the bandwidth of the sweepable high-mid frequency. The "HI-Q" position is just a but less than 1 octave, not very high Q. Spec sheet says that the Q of the 16 channel version was set to 0.55. I don't know why they didn't do a real parametric eq with the usual 3 adjustments per band. That sells me on the 01V96 right there. |
#56
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cheap adat to usb
On Sun, 07 Mar 2010 18:24:27 -0000, Mike Rivers
wrote: I'm surprised that MADI hasn't picked up any real steam. It depends which end of the market you are looking at. MADI seems fairly well supported at the high end but I guess that none of the consumer chip manufacturers support it so it hasn't found its way down to the hobby market. James. -- http://www.jrpmusic.net |
#57
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cheap adat to usb (Now for some odd reason about the PreSonus StudioLive)
Mike Rivers wrote:
They told me that their beta testers requested the "not-solo" solo. Wonder what they do in real life? They continue learning English, so they can move up to PT support. -- ha shut up and play your guitar http://hankalrich.com/ http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/hsadharma |
#58
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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cheap adat to usb
On Sun, 07 Mar 2010 17:08:59 -0500, Mike Rivers
wrote: David Light wrote: The ada8000 mic pres only drive the ADC and have no connection to the analog outputs. The pres. can't really be used standalone that I know of. There's been times when I really wanted to have a direct out of the pre so if there is a way let me know. What happens if you connect the ADAT Out to the ADAT In? Will that get the mic input to the analog output? Of course it's going through an A/D and D/A conversion (something that most people would rather sell their sister into slavery than do) and unless you have an ADAT splitter, you can't get both analog and digital output, but if you need to get mics up to line level maybe it'll work. I just assumed that it had a "monitor" function like just about every other similar (though more expensive) device has. But if the intent (as the web site suggests) is that it be used as an expander for the digital console, then that's where you get your monitoring. I think connecting the lightpipe output to input would work, but I haven't tried it. -- "Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be operated without a passing knowledge of computing, although it seems that it can be operated without a passing knowledge of audio." - John Watkinson |
#59
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#60
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wrote in message ... On 2010-03-08 said: Once there is a de facto industry standard for digital snakes, ADAT may fall by the wayside. So far neither the AES nor IEEE nor any proprietary source has delivered. Wasn't that audio rail system supposed to be adat for the connections? It is. FUnny but a few years ago he was sounding like he had it rpetty well locked in for digital snakes, then suddenly no more was heard from that outfit. The last change to their web site I can detect is from after 2007, but how far after, I can't tell. INstead of wrestling 56 pairs of snake in two big cables it would sure be cool to run a couple hundred feet of cat-5 in from the truck g BUt, from where I stand that's sitll quite a distance down the road when it comes to choosing a standard that will be around day after tomorrow, and ease of troubleshooting in the field. If I had the need I'd still give serious consideration to Audiorail. I was able to mine some info from their site: A basic ADAT patent , 5297181 dates back to 1994. It has a year or two more to run. Apparently some people including Presounus and M-Audio are using ADAT interface technology licensed from a third party: TC Applied Technologies. |
#61
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#62
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MIke Rivers writes: INstead of wrestling 56 pairs of snake in two big cables it would sure be cool to run a couple hundred feet of cat-5 in from the truck g BUt, from where I stand that's sitll quite a distance down the road when it comes to choosing a standard that will be around day after tomorrow, and ease of troubleshooting in the field. Yup. You don't just lose one channel if someone runs over your cable with a hand truck. Which is one of the big reasons why, hassle with the wrestle being a real pita I"ll stick with my analog snakes. Richard webb, replace anything before at with elspider |
#63
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On Tue 2038-Mar-09 07:39, Arny Krueger writes:
Wasn't that audio rail system supposed to be adat for the connections? It is. That's what I thought, but it had been awhile since I heard anything about it, and my memory might have been faulty g. FUnny but a few years ago he was sounding like he had it pretty well locked in for digital snakes, then suddenly no more was heard from that outfit. The last change to their web site I can detect is from after 2007, but how far after, I can't tell. Yep, was about 2007 I'm thinking when I last heard much about it. INstead of wrestling 56 pairs of snake in two big cables it would sure be cool to run a couple hundred feet of cat-5 in from the truck g BUt, from where I stand that's sitll quite a distance down the road when it comes to choosing a standard that will be around day after tomorrow, and ease of troubleshooting in the field. If I had the need I'd still give serious consideration to Audiorail. Worth a thought, but for the moment we're mixing analog and until it hits the converts for the recorder that's where it is. But even with mixing analog a reliable technology that we were sure was going to stand the test of time, meaning at least 5-10 years would sure save wear and tear on the back g. IT's an application I could sure get behind g. What I'd be wondering most about is how long my cable runs could be before I had to do some kind of signal amplification. I was able to mine some info from their site: A basic ADAT patent , 5297181 dates back to 1994. It has a year or two more to run. IF ten years then until 2014. Apparently some people including Presounus and M-Audio are using ADAT interface technology licensed from a third party: TC Applied Technologies. INteresting. The nice thing about the adat standard for transport of digital audio is that it's been around, people know it, etc. Regards, Richard .... A good captain is hoisting his first drink in a bar when the storm hits. -- | Remove .my.foot for email | via Waldo's Place USA Fidonet-Internet Gateway Site | Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his own. |
#64
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Quote:
- per-ADAT selectable direction, any combination from 64/0, 56/8... to 0/64 supported - the ability to transmit a wordclock signal along with the ADAT streams - a local loopback function which eliminates the need for ADAT splitters - extremely low latency - very competitive pricing And that's how it looks like: I'm hoping to get some feedback on from the "guys on the road"...any comments are highly appreciated! Quote:
Best Regards, |
#65
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"roffez" wrote in message ... Mike Rivers;903534 Wrote: Audio Rail - that's the system I was trying to think of that recommended the Behringer ADA8000 at the ends. They still seem to be around (at least their web site is still active) but I haven't heard anyone talk about it for quite some time. I have developed a competitor product to Audiorail - its called *'ADAT Multicore Extender' (http://appsys.ch/en/products/digital...coreextender)* and does ADAT over CAT5, but with enhanced features such as: great idea, i will have to figure out if it is one of the product I will be wanting in the summer george |
#66
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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cheap adat to usb
"Richard Webb" wrote in message ... On Mon 2038-Mar-15 21:45, George writes: I have developed a competitor product to Audiorail - its called *'ADAT Multicore Extender' (http://appsys.ch/en/products/digital...coreextender)* and does ADAT over CAT5, but with enhanced features such as: great idea, i will have to figure out if it is one of the product I will be wanting in the summer If you decide to give it a go tell us how it works for you after the summer. YOur summer outdoor environment would present similar conditions as those my snakes would see regularly. Even though I still get a light feeling thinking about all those channels of audio going down a thin cable that could be easily damaged and take everything out if hand truck, or worse runs over the cable I'd sure like to think about lightening that multicore a bunch eventually. fOr the original poster with the competitor: What's the longest run you can make with it before you have to do something about signal boosters or repeaters of some kind? I would be using this http://mixonline.com/news/headline/G...Cable-0915043/ not the standard instal type cat5 Iwould probably carry a back up of cheesy cat5 "just in case, as it is dirt cheap George |
#67
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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George's Pro Sound Co. wrote:
I would be using this http://mixonline.com/news/headline/G...Cable-0915043/ not the standard instal type cat5 Iwould probably carry a back up of cheesy cat5 "just in case, as it is dirt cheap Don't do it, get the Belden tactical cat-5 cable with the kevlar insulation. I have used it for phones and data at festivals and you can run it over with a lawnmower without damaging it. It's expensive but it's good stuff. Steve Lampen will tell you more about it than you care to know and probably give you a foot or two as a sample. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#68
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message ... George's Pro Sound Co. wrote: I would be using this http://mixonline.com/news/headline/G...Cable-0915043/ not the standard instal type cat5 Iwould probably carry a back up of cheesy cat5 "just in case, as it is dirt cheap Don't do it, get the Belden tactical cat-5 cable with the kevlar insulation. I have used it for phones and data at festivals and you can run it over with a lawnmower without damaging it. It's expensive but it's good stuff. Steve Lampen will tell you more about it than you care to know and probably give you a foot or two as a sample. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." Thanks I did not know Belden had a version of this, I will remember it when the time comes g |
#69
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George's Pro Sound Co. wrote:
"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message Don't do it, get the Belden tactical cat-5 cable with the kevlar insulation. I have used it for phones and data at festivals and you can run it over with a lawnmower without damaging it. It's expensive but it's good stuff. Steve Lampen will tell you more about it than you care to know and probably give you a foot or two as a sample. Thanks I did not know Belden had a version of this, I will remember it when the time comes Not only that, but Neutrik has some tactical-grade constant-Z connectors for the outside of the recording truck too! --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#71
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
George's Pro Sound Co. wrote: I would be using this http://mixonline.com/news/headline/G...Cable-0915043/ not the standard instal type cat5 Iwould probably carry a back up of cheesy cat5 "just in case, as it is dirt cheap Don't do it, get the Belden tactical cat-5 cable with the kevlar insulation. I have used it for phones and data at festivals and you can run it over with a lawnmower without damaging it. It's expensive but it's good stuff. Steve Lampen will tell you more about it than you care to know and probably give you a foot or two as a sample. --scott Interesting item: Belden Brilliance 1305a http://www.markertek.com/Cables-Conn...A-B59500.xhtml |
#72
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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In article , wrote:
IT is, but we're talking a few hundred feet of run possibly, and getting it there's still going to take some time if it's not already strung, which sorta defeats the purpose g. I'd have to look at the Beldon stuff Scott mentioned later in this thread. FOr some reason this damned reader always shows me the replies before hte originals g.. oh well. Belden 1305A! Markertek even stocks it! --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
#73
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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On Mon 2038-Mar-15 21:45, George writes:
I have developed a competitor product to Audiorail - its called *'ADAT Multicore Extender' (http://appsys.ch/en/products/digital...coreextender)* and does ADAT over CAT5, but with enhanced features such as: great idea, i will have to figure out if it is one of the product I will be wanting in the summer If you decide to give it a go tell us how it works for you after the summer. YOur summer outdoor environment would present similar conditions as those my snakes would see regularly. Even though I still get a light feeling thinking about all those channels of audio going down a thin cable that could be easily damaged and take everything out if hand truck, or worse runs over the cable I'd sure like to think about lightening that multicore a bunch eventually. fOr the original poster with the competitor: What's the longest run you can make with it before you have to do something about signal boosters or repeaters of some kind? Regards, Richard -- | Remove .my.foot for email | via Waldo's Place USA Fidonet-Internet Gateway Site | Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his own. |
#74
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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#76
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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On Tue, 09 Mar 2010 12:39:55 -0000, Arny Krueger wrote:
Apparently some people including Presounus and M-Audio are using ADAT interface technology licensed from a third party: TC Applied Technologies. That's because Alesis sold their semiconductor division (Wavefront) to a company that has some kind of connection to TC. Most people use Wavefront chips for their ADAT connections. James. -- http://www.jrpmusic.net ------------ And now a word from our sponsor ------------------ Want to have instant messaging, and chat rooms, and discussion groups for your local users or business, you need dbabble! -- See http://netwinsite.com/sponsor/sponsor_dbabble.htm ---- |
#77
Posted to rec.audio.pro
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"James Perrett" wrote in
message news On Tue, 09 Mar 2010 12:39:55 -0000, Arny Krueger wrote: Apparently some people including Presounus and M-Audio are using ADAT interface technology licensed from a third party: TC Applied Technologies. That's because Alesis sold their semiconductor division (Wavefront) to a company that has some kind of connection to TC. Most people use Wavefront chips for their ADAT connections. An interesting highly relevant factoid that was pretty easy to confirm from press releases. Thanks! |
#78
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The Wavefront AL1401/AL1402G ICs have in fact an excellent implementation of the ADAT interface. I did some tests with them and find out that they are very tolerant in terms of accepted input jitter and clock recovery.
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