Perhaps a bit off topic, but I thought I should post this for anyone else
who could benefit from it.

I posted something here about about 6 months ago (I think) called "Engineers
and Tinnitus", as I had suddenly developed a distracting high-pitched
ringing, mostly in my right ear, despite my care and precautions (I started
using ear protection in loud and even sortof loud situations back in the
early 70's while still in high school). It appeared suddenly, and I could
find no apparent cause. I am 45 years old.

I managed to track down the cause. Incredibly, it was due to one of the
computers here in the house. This computer is the one I use for internet and
general non-studio things. I usually spend a couple hours at it every night
and an hour or so each morning. It used to sit on the table, making it only
about two and a half feet from my right ear. The friend I live here with who
also spends a lot of time at this computer recently told me her ears rang
every night after she had spent some time at this computer. I was
intrigued...

About a month ago we built an insulated box for it and put it under the
table. I would estimate the audible noise was cut by at about 80%. I have
no idea what kind of inaudible frequencies may have been being emitted by
the thing, but the ringing in my ears, which had become so distracting to
the point where I was wondering how I could continue doing the work I do,
has all but stopped. My friend also.

Incidentally my studio computer lives in a closet and is totally inaudible,
and even before it was in the closet it was far enough away that perhaps it
never affected me like the one on the table a couple feet away.

I hope this info can be useful for someone else!

Bob Drake

http://www.bdrak.com

Bob Drake wrote:


I hope this info can be useful for someone else!


Thanks Bob. I often wondered if sounds above ones audible range could in
fact effect their hearing or other sounds that are within range.

This could also challange those that claim that a media's effect on
sounds above the normal range of hearing don't matter.

-Rob

CRT Computer monitors can also be a culprit. Beware!

"Bob Drake" wrote in message ...
Perhaps a bit off topic, but I thought I should post this for anyone else
who could benefit from it.

I posted something here about about 6 months ago (I think) called "Engineers
and Tinnitus", as I had suddenly developed a distracting high-pitched
ringing, mostly in my right ear, despite my care and precautions (I started
using ear protection in loud and even sortof loud situations back in the
early 70's while still in high school). It appeared suddenly, and I could
find no apparent cause. I am 45 years old.

I managed to track down the cause. Incredibly, it was due to one of the
computers here in the house. This computer is the one I use for internet and
general non-studio things. I usually spend a couple hours at it every night
and an hour or so each morning. It used to sit on the table, making it only
about two and a half feet from my right ear. The friend I live here with who
also spends a lot of time at this computer recently told me her ears rang
every night after she had spent some time at this computer. I was
intrigued...

About a month ago we built an insulated box for it and put it under the
table. I would estimate the audible noise was cut by at about 80%. I have
no idea what kind of inaudible frequencies may have been being emitted by
the thing, but the ringing in my ears, which had become so distracting to
the point where I was wondering how I could continue doing the work I do,
has all but stopped. My friend also.

Incidentally my studio computer lives in a closet and is totally inaudible,
and even before it was in the closet it was far enough away that perhaps it
never affected me like the one on the table a couple feet away.

I hope this info can be useful for someone else!

Bob Drake

http://www.bdrak.com

I think it's a good lesson for all of us about the mulitple sources of
noise pollution we're exposed to each day. I had a similar experience
with ringing in the ear for 4 days, and it had me greatly concerned.
Turns out it was caused by a new hair blow dryer which had a
particularly bad "whine" at about 5k. Luckily, changing the dryer got
rid of it but I now wear ear plugs when in any type of noise
generating situation, including drying my hair.

My ENT (Ear, Nose & Throat) doc checked out my hearing and said it was
"exceptional" but that hearing damage is "cumulative." He told me that
noise from close traffic, weed eaters, lawn mowers, hair dryers,
getting your hair cut, etc. over time is the reason people are losing
their hearing earlier in life than before.

Thanks for sharing the lesson, for me it's one worth repeating.

Audy
Radar 24 Dealer

"Rob Adelman" wrote in message

Bob Drake wrote:


I hope this info can be useful for someone else!


Thanks Bob. I often wondered if sounds above ones audible range could
in fact effect their hearing or other sounds that are within range.

This could also challange those that claim that a media's effect on
sounds above the normal range of hearing don't matter.

Point of order. No spectral analysis of the computer's noise has been
provided. Therefore, we don't know whether or not the sounds in question
were above the normal range of hearing.

Second point of order. There's no question that more-or-less isolated tones
at unusually high amplitudes and above the normal audible range can
sometimes be heard.

A major reason why media with extended bandpass adds nothing audible to the
playback of music relates to masking due to the fact that the very highest
frequency tones in music tend to be at lower levels and aren't isolated.

or you could wear ear plugs when using the computer, i suppose...


P h i l i p

______________________________

"I'm too ****ing busy and vice-versa"

- Dorothy Parker

"Bob Drake" wrote in message
...

I managed to track down the cause. Incredibly, it was due to one of the
computers here in the house.

I had originally posited this theory after I could find no other explanation
for the ear nearest the computer being the one ringing. After about 4 other
people with single ear tinnitus reported that the ringing ear was the one
nearest their computer I figured that was it. Bad thing is mine is in the
next room and still it did it.

"Rob Adelman" wrote
... I often wondered if sounds above ones audible range could
in fact effect their hearing or other sounds that are within range.

Arny Krueger wrote:

Point of order. No spectral analysis of the computer's noise has been
provided. Therefore, we don't know whether or not the sounds in question
were above the normal range of hearing.

I don't know about the OP's computer, but I do know that
pure tones above my 55 year old hearing's HF limit (12k)
will light up my tinnitus. The perpetual background
ring gets perceptably louder. And the HF doesn't have
to be especially loud, or at least my son, who can hear
flyback transformers, didn't think it painfully loud.

Point of order. No spectral analysis of the computer's noise has been
provided. Therefore, we don't know whether or not the sounds in question
were above the normal range of hearing.

I hadn't intended to claim it was some high frequencies beyond hearing range
which were causing my problem, it could just as well have been the audible
sound of the disks or processor fan etc, I have no idea. But it is
absolutely clear that SOMETHING coming from that machine was causing my
tinnitus.

BD

"Ricky W. Hunt" wrote:

I had originally posited this theory after I could find no other explanation
for the ear nearest the computer being the one ringing. After about 4 other
people with single ear tinnitus reported that the ringing ear was the one
nearest their computer I figured that was it. Bad thing is mine is in the
next room and still it did it.

This only computes in case a fan emits a hf sinewave like some power
drills do.

And frankly it still doesn't, I use my computers as tinnitus maskers and
they do a good job, right now a needed one due to a live location avant
garde recording last thursday. I really really really wish Sennheiser
would get some hintlive location monitoring phones with ANR done RSN
/hint .... I do not believe that the computer referred to is _cause_
of tinnitus, but it may well be cause of delayed tinnitus recovery.

Just in case it makes a difference: in my experience getting ones
bloodpressure regulated with cozaar seem to offer the same benefits as
gingko biloba ... I didn't make no promise, but if it is too high
anyway, then that is a tinnitus aggravator. From their descriptions
cozaar and gingko biloba seem to do similar things, so I have not wanted
to combine them, common sense suggests against it.

A safe bet is to avoid any avoidable loud noise with reason, shavers,
headtrimmers, lawnmovers, racecars at 30 feet, spaceshuttles, note that
ear protection may not be possible with the latter sources ...

A word of caution: do not remove ear protection in noisy surroundings
for any reason whatsoever. If dialogue is masked out by the noise, then
it is masked out anyway. Wait until in a gentle environment and allow
about 10 minutes for the hearing to adjust. If you use ear protection,
then start wearing it already in a gentle environment and allow the
hearing the same 10 minutes to adapt. In my experience doing that makes
hearing speech easier all day, said experience is subjective.


Kind regards

Peter Larsen



--
************************************************** ***********
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
************************************************** ***********

"Bob Drake" wrote in message
...
I posted something here about about 6 months ago (I think) called
"Engineers
and Tinnitus", as I had suddenly developed a distracting high-pitched
ringing, mostly in my right ear, despite my care and precautions (I
started
using ear protection in loud and even sortof loud situations back in the
early 70's while still in high school). It appeared suddenly, and I could
find no apparent cause. I am 45 years old.

I managed to track down the cause. Incredibly, it was due to one of the
computers here in the house.

Yeah, but you know what? It can be due to having a wisdom tooth extracted
as much as having physical ear damage. It's surprising what can adversely
effect your hearing. I remember specifically, back in my Air Force days,
when a newly annointed Captain dentist told me that, for the purposes of
being dentally correct for the Air Force I needed to have my slightly
impacted wisdom teeth extracted (all of them at one time), but that it would
likely affect my hearing. He was right. I've had additional damage due to
the concussion of a grenade, but I quickly found out what he meant.

So sometimes tracking down a problem is helpful and sometimes it's not.
Sometimes knowing the problem only shows that negative things have happened
during one's life and you live with it. And no matter how you jump or
dance, the last drop always falls in your pants. Such is life.

When you start hearing it again, let us know. My guess is you have a
semi-solution and without the computer problem you'll start hearing it
again. But hey, I'm more wrong than right.

By the way, as long as you have a relatively strong firewall, you can do
everything on one computer. Zone Alarm Pro is pretty nice. Since I've
instituted it 18 months ago I've had some 8,000+ attacks on my computer and
it's taken care of them all. Having a second computer for internet is
relatively expensive when you think about it. So much easier to access the
internet from the same machine. And even with mail up when I'm recording 16
tracks here I haven't had a hiccup.

But I still have the ring in my ears.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at www.recaudiopro.net.
See how far $20 really goes.



http://www.bdrak.com

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
Point of order. No spectral analysis of the computer's noise has been
provided. Therefore, we don't know whether or not the sounds in question
were above the normal range of hearing.

Nor do we KNOW his hearing is correct. Take the mechanical, the electronic
and the human factor, and we have to depend on his appraisal. So what's
your point, Arny? g

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at www.recaudiopro.net.
See how far $20 really goes.




"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
Point of order. No spectral analysis of the computer's noise has been
provided. Therefore, we don't know whether or not the sounds in question
were above the normal range of hearing.

"Audy" wrote in message
om...
I think it's a good lesson for all of us about the mulitple sources of
noise pollution we're exposed to each day... My ENT (Ear, Nose & Throat)
doc checked out my hearing and said it was
"exceptional" but that hearing damage is "cumulative."

Gee, I'd be more likely to pay a doctor when he gave me good news too.
"Excellent" but "cumulative" isn't really a good analysis. It's more likely
that, during this day and age, if you don't follow the noise levels of
everything around you, then you'll be hearing things that the people you are
trying to market to can't hear. Then what's the purpose? Hit's have been
overbearing or quite acceptable, so where does this end up? If you protect
your hearing and thereby can do a better job of a mix, then when your
audience can't hear the difference, did you efforts produce anything?

Understand, I'm not actually asking you. I'm pointing to the same thing
that's been discussed here a number of times, which is why do we have
mixes/masters/releases that step way over the line all the time.

Could it be due to the sound levels we've subjected our young people too?
Is human hearing going to change into about -40 dBFS before we can hear
anything?

Personally I'm hoping that more will read Bob Katz' article about setting
some calibrated standards in their own rooms so that 0 dBFS is what everyone
expects. I think people should be able to distroy their hearing without
having someone else destroying their music first.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at www.recaudiopro.net.
See how far $20 really goes.




I had a similar experience
with ringing in the ear for 4 days, and it had me greatly concerned.
Turns out it was caused by a new hair blow dryer which had a
particularly bad "whine" at about 5k. Luckily, changing the dryer got
rid of it but I now wear ear plugs when in any type of noise
generating situation, including drying my hair.

He told me that
noise from close traffic, weed eaters, lawn mowers, hair dryers,
getting your hair cut, etc. over time is the reason people are losing
their hearing earlier in life than before.

Thanks for sharing the lesson, for me it's one worth repeating.

Audy
Radar 24 Dealer

"Peter Larsen" wrote in message
...

This only computes in case a fan emits a hf sinewave like some power
drills do.

Sorry sir, but no, computer fans do indeed end up with specific frequencies
being pronouced enough to hear, and sometimes easily picked out. I think
I've described my computer enough times on Samplitude's forum and even
though you don't remember it specifically, I can say that I REALLY need to
get into the computer and air blow it out, along with changing a couple of
fans. Simple maintenance just like a RTR or anything else. If one gets
into their computer about once a month and simply air blows the thing clean,
it will last about 3 times longer. Heat causes slowdowns amongst other
things. Dust causes heat. And the slowdown attributed to heat from the
dust means audible frequencies in the control room.

Which is one reason I don't like the idea of having the computer in another
room. Ultimately that would cause a failure with me because I simply don't
have the umph to go check the physical computer box everyday to make certain
it's happy. But I have enough experience with IBM 370s, 9370s, HP9000s and
such that I know for a fact that computers want to operate correctly. Once
a month maintenance is extremely cheap in terms of maintenance of a computer
system. Something everyone should probably pay attention to. Something
that no one should allow themselves to ignore. And yes, I be the worst
culprit! g

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at www.recaudiopro.net.
See how far $20 really goes.





And frankly it still doesn't, I use my computers as tinnitus maskers and
they do a good job, right now a needed one due to a live location avant
garde recording last thursday. I really really really wish Sennheiser
would get some hintlive location monitoring phones with ANR done RSN
/hint .... I do not believe that the computer referred to is _cause_
of tinnitus, but it may well be cause of delayed tinnitus recovery.

Just in case it makes a difference: in my experience getting ones
bloodpressure regulated with cozaar seem to offer the same benefits as
gingko biloba ... I didn't make no promise, but if it is too high
anyway, then that is a tinnitus aggravator. From their descriptions
cozaar and gingko biloba seem to do similar things, so I have not wanted
to combine them, common sense suggests against it.

A safe bet is to avoid any avoidable loud noise with reason, shavers,
headtrimmers, lawnmovers, racecars at 30 feet, spaceshuttles, note that
ear protection may not be possible with the latter sources ...

A word of caution: do not remove ear protection in noisy surroundings
for any reason whatsoever. If dialogue is masked out by the noise, then
it is masked out anyway. Wait until in a gentle environment and allow
about 10 minutes for the hearing to adjust. If you use ear protection,
then start wearing it already in a gentle environment and allow the
hearing the same 10 minutes to adapt. In my experience doing that makes
hearing speech easier all day, said experience is subjective.


Kind regards

Peter Larsen



--
************************************************** ***********
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
************************************************** ***********

wisdom teeth eh? I assume this could be prevented by surgery rather than the
grind and pull method?


P h i l i p

______________________________

"I'm too ****ing busy and vice-versa"

- Dorothy Parker

In article oBhub.228054$HS4.1993709@attbi_s01, "Ricky W. Hunt"
wrote:

"Bob Drake" wrote in message
...

I managed to track down the cause. Incredibly, it was due to one of the
computers here in the house.

I had originally posited this theory after I could find no other explanation
for the ear nearest the computer being the one ringing. After about 4 other
people with single ear tinnitus reported that the ringing ear was the one
nearest their computer I figured that was it. Bad thing is mine is in the
next room and still it did it.

A lot of people are having probelms from in ear phone headsets and extra
loud settings to compensate for loud backgrounds.



www.monsterisland.com

Roger W. Norman wrote:

Sorry sir, but no, computer fans do indeed end up with specific frequencies
being pronouced enough to hear, and sometimes easily picked out.

Besides, what is the focus on fans for? I am sitting in front of an iMac
and it is the harddrive that is making the most noise. And it is probably
a 7200 RPM drive. The whine is actually very close to the dominant
frequency in my particular range of tinnitus.

Rob R.

Roger W. Norman wrote:

"Peter Larsen" wrote in message
...

/* about computer fans as a *cause* of tinnitus */

This only computes in case a fan emits a hf sinewave like some power
drills do.

Sorry sir, but no, computer fans do indeed end up with specific
frequencies being pronouced enough to hear, and sometimes easily
picked out.

I did not say that are not audible. Please re-read what I wrote.
Audibility and being a valid cause of tinnitus are different
definitions. I submit that for a computer fan to cause tinnitus it has
to be defective and thus to produce a loud high frequency sinewave. I
will not dispute that el cheapo crap fans (the most common product out
there) may behave like that if running at full speed nor that cleaning a
computer is wise and has the benefit of helping it stay cool and thus
have its fans idling or near-idling.

I think I've described my computer enough times on
Samplitude's forum and even though you don't remember it
specifically,

I can guarantee you that I have no recollection of any of your posts on
samplitudes forum. I didn't even know that such a forum existed ... O;-)

The above said, as always Roger your contributions are interesting and
well worth reading.

My first Amiga btw. came home with an external harddisk, one that lived
in a neatly slotted metal box for placement on the desk under the
monitor. Now *that* was a serious noise source, and the external
harddisk was promptly returned to the shop the next day and swapped for
Kindwords word processing software, a printer and an external floppy
drive. Oh the joys of silent computing ....


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

--
************************************************** **********
* This posting handcrafted by Peter Larsen *
* My website is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
************************************************** **********

I don't believe I was saying that a specific fan frequency was the cause of
his "perceived" tinnitus, but rather his perception that he had tinnitus
during his using the computer, which is what I believe he actually
described. But my guess is that he doesn't have tinnitus because if he did,
he wouldn't have to question it at all! g

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at www.recaudiopro.net.
See how far $20 really goes.




"Peter Larsen" wrote in message
...
Roger W. Norman wrote:

"Peter Larsen" wrote in message
...

/* about computer fans as a *cause* of tinnitus */

This only computes in case a fan emits a hf sinewave like some power
drills do.

Sorry sir, but no, computer fans do indeed end up with specific
frequencies being pronouced enough to hear, and sometimes easily
picked out.

I did not say that are not audible. Please re-read what I wrote.
Audibility and being a valid cause of tinnitus are different
definitions. I submit that for a computer fan to cause tinnitus it has
to be defective and thus to produce a loud high frequency sinewave. I
will not dispute that el cheapo crap fans (the most common product out
there) may behave like that if running at full speed nor that cleaning a
computer is wise and has the benefit of helping it stay cool and thus
have its fans idling or near-idling.

I think I've described my computer enough times on
Samplitude's forum and even though you don't remember it
specifically,

I can guarantee you that I have no recollection of any of your posts on
samplitudes forum. I didn't even know that such a forum existed ... O;-)

The above said, as always Roger your contributions are interesting and
well worth reading.

My first Amiga btw. came home with an external harddisk, one that lived
in a neatly slotted metal box for placement on the desk under the
monitor. Now *that* was a serious noise source, and the external
harddisk was promptly returned to the shop the next day and swapped for
Kindwords word processing software, a printer and an external floppy
drive. Oh the joys of silent computing ....


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

--
************************************************** **********
* This posting handcrafted by Peter Larsen *
* My website is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
************************************************** **********