I am looking for a decent, reliable lapel wireless mic mainly for the
purposes of recording speakers at events such as weddings and
conferences. I would like to purchase one that cost around $200
although may be willing to go up to $250 if the quality increases a
lot. In the past, I have only really cared about wired mics, and have
never researched wireless mics so was hoping to get some ideas on which
wireless mics are considered decent since the prices seem to be all
over the place. It would be great if the transmitter had had a 1/4
jack input as so I could plug something into it if I was not using the
lapel mic on it. I plan on running the output of the receiver into my
Presonus Firebox (XLR or 1/4 inputs) which will be feeding into my dell
laptop running Sonar XL.

Thanks for any ideas,
Andrew V. Romero

rrstudio2 wrote ...
I am looking for a decent, reliable lapel wireless mic
mainly for the purposes of recording speakers at events
such as weddings and conferences. I would like to
purchase one that cost around $200...

Good luck. You'll need it.

Many of us believe that any wireless Mic/transmitter/
receiver that sells for under ~$400 is a cheap and
unreliable plastic toy. The Sennheiser EW series is
rather the minimum reliable system worth the investment.

Many wedding videographers have switched to
using pocket-size MD recorders instead of wireless
infinitely greater reliability for the price.

Wireless mics are discussed regularly over in
news:rec.arts.movies.production.sound where the
regulars do sound for the video and movies we see
every week. Their notion of "too cheap" is more
like $1500, but they are playing a high-stakes game.

wrote:
I am looking for a decent, reliable lapel wireless mic mainly for the
purposes of recording speakers at events such as weddings and
conferences. I would like to purchase one that cost around $200
although may be willing to go up to $250 if the quality increases a
lot.

You are screwed. You are really, really screwed.

In the past, I have only really cared about wired mics, and have
never researched wireless mics so was hoping to get some ideas on which
wireless mics are considered decent since the prices seem to be all
over the place.

Basically, cheap wireless isn't very good, and good wireless isn't cheap.

It would be great if the transmitter had had a 1/4
jack input as so I could plug something into it if I was not using the
lapel mic on it. I plan on running the output of the receiver into my
Presonus Firebox (XLR or 1/4 inputs) which will be feeding into my dell
laptop running Sonar XL.

Are you absolutely sure you can't either stretch the budget or go wired?
Shure and Sennheiser now have some usable wireless systems in about three
times your price range. They aren't Lectro or Vega stuff, but they will
mostly sound okay most of the time.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

On 10 Jan 2006 18:35:17 -0800, "
wrote:

I am looking for a decent, reliable lapel wireless mic mainly for the
purposes of recording speakers at events such as weddings and
conferences. I would like to purchase one that cost around $200
although may be willing to go up to $250 if the quality increases a
lot.

I've had good luck recently with the Audio Technica ATW stuff.
This is in the context of our steel and concrete theater and
in a smaller town church; neither are, apparently, demanding
environments.

Cost escalates rapidly if it really, really matters that
everything works right. "Really" is expensive, and "really,
really" is more. And, always, 100% backup is not unrealistic
if you're charging money, and perhaps in some other format.

Good fortune,

Chris Hornbeck

b
wrote in message
oups.com...
I am looking for a decent, reliable lapel wireless mic mainly for the
purposes of recording speakers at events such as weddings and
conferences. I would like to purchase one that cost around $200

I have had really good results with the Audio-technica 1400 series uhf mics
last lav system I bought was under 200$ not including the mic(35 to 80$
more depending on the model you choose)
george

On 10 Jan 2006 18:35:17 -0800, "
wrote:

I am looking for a decent, reliable lapel wireless mic mainly for the
purposes of recording speakers at events such as weddings and
conferences. I would like to purchase one that cost around $200
although may be willing to go up to $250 if the quality increases a
lot. In the past, I have only really cared about wired mics, and have
never researched wireless mics so was hoping to get some ideas on which
wireless mics are considered decent since the prices seem to be all
over the place. It would be great if the transmitter had had a 1/4
jack input as so I could plug something into it if I was not using the
lapel mic on it. I plan on running the output of the receiver into my
Presonus Firebox (XLR or 1/4 inputs) which will be feeding into my dell
laptop running Sonar XL.

Your budget isn't up to the job.

Mini-disk players come at the same size as wireless packs. Why not
buy a few of these and edit the sound in afterwards?

Thanks for the information, although it is rather disappointing. I
don't really need any type of range since most of the time the receiver
will be pretty close to the transmitter. As a funny story...a friend
of mine purchased a radio shack 900mhz wireless mic (without consulting
me) and I attempted to use it to record a wedding ceremony for a
friend. I did volunteer to do it without pay and they were not going
to have anyone record (video) the event, so I figured it would be a
good chance to play around. I tried to record seperate audio with this
wireless mic, and actually, the quality is pretty good, the only
problem was that the transmitter seemed to stop transmitting for a
split second every 5 minutes or so. I don't know if the transmitter
has a short circuit or what was going on there. So now I have fairly
decent audio, but have these split second gaps in it. So I was going
to try filling in these gaps with audio from either the camera or an
MXL603 wired mic that I also had running. The problem with that plan
is off course that the audio recordings don't really sound close to
each other since the MXL was about 12 feet away so I have a fair about
of natural reverb in the mix. So as a result of this, I would really
like to just not use that radio shack mic again, and actually get
something of at least decent quality. I don't really do weddings or
have any need to record from wireless mics on any type of regular
basis, but I thought it might be good just to have a decent one hanging
around for those occassions and as long as I could work around its
particular issues, I would probably be okay. So seeing as I would
maybe use the wireless setup 1 or 2 times a year, I don't really want
to throw a whole lot of money into it. I mainly do more studio
recording, so have the mixers, wired vocal mics, and keyboards.

I had not considered mini-disk recorders, so I will check into that
option. I thought they recorded in some type of compressed format,
where as for DVD audio I will need 48khz 16bit. How does plugging a
lapel mic into a mini-disk work? I am surprised that there would be
enough gain adjustment on the mini-disk to get a pretty useable signal.
I will also check into the audio-technica series. Perhaps those would
be "good enough" for my purposes. I mainly want something that just
isn't going to be randomly be cutting out on me every 5 minutes or so.
I can at least work with positioning the receiver so that it gets a
good signal, I just can't have that signal dying out on me.

Thanks for all the fast initial feedback. My next set of friends (the
ones who purchased the radio shack mic...arg) aren't getting married
until october, so I have plenty of time to figure out something better
for them.

-Andrew V. Romero

rrstudio2 wrote...
... I tried to record seperate audio with this
wireless mic, and actually, the quality is pretty good, the only
problem was that the transmitter seemed to stop transmitting for a
split second every 5 minutes or so. I don't know if the transmitter
has a short circuit or what was going on there.

Yes. That is exactly why many people consider cheap
wireless mics to be a waste of time, money, and
reputation.

....So seeing as I would
maybe use the wireless setup 1 or 2 times a year, I don't really want
to throw a whole lot of money into it.

Rent, use MD, or design the production around the problem.


I mainly do more studio
recording, so have the mixers, wired vocal mics, and keyboards.

I had not considered mini-disk recorders, so I will check into that
option. I thought they recorded in some type of compressed format,
where as for DVD audio I will need 48khz 16bit.

They "clean up" pretty good for first-generation voice
recording. Besides, the current "HD" versions record
way over 60 minutes uncompressed (WAV).

How does plugging a lapel mic into a mini-disk work?

It works just fine. Perhaps we don't understand the question?

I am surprised that there would be enough gain adjustment
on the mini-disk to get a pretty useable signal.

The auto-level they use is adequate for dialog. Not suitable
for music, of course.

I will also check into the audio-technica series. Perhaps those would
be "good enough" for my purposes. I mainly want something that just
isn't going to be randomly be cutting out on me every 5 minutes or so.
I can at least work with positioning the receiver so that it gets a
good signal, I just can't have that signal dying out on me.

Good luck. You really do get what you pay for.

Forget all the "you get what you pay for" crap around here. These guys
are used to paying 20 grand for microphones and can't understand that
you really aren't interested in recording every tiny nuance of the
speaker's voice at a wedding or event.

Here are a couple of really good hints.
If you truly want wireless look into the Samson line of wireless gear.
You most definitely want UHF and not VHF. Reports on this gear have
been excellent and it's right up your price range.

And also the idea about recording to a minidisk is sort of a good one.
Wireless mics can and do drop out and give problems. But I would
suggest rather than a minidisk which is expensive and prone vibration
problems, get an IRiver IFP-899 MP3 player and recorder. It's as small
as the transmitter unit on most lapel setups. Has lots of memory,
downloads files to your computer for editing and has both line and mic
inputs. If the event has a PA board you can do line out right to the
899 works like a champ! It also has a built in mic and will record
voice. It has AGC and sort of works, but for really decent quality go
with some kind of mic or better a stereo mic into the external input.
It may take some experimenting to deal with levels etc. because it
really doesn't have any kind of level monitoring but the core system is
there.

Good luck

Benj

bjacoby wrote ...
Forget all the "you get what you pay for" crap around here. These guys
are used to paying 20 grand for microphones and can't understand that
you really aren't interested in recording every tiny nuance of the
speaker's voice at a wedding or event.
......
Good luck

Alas, that is the best part of the advice.

The OP already revealed why he was dissatisfied with
the way the cheap wireless DIDN'T "record every tiny
nuance". Apparently "bjacoby" missed that posting.

Note that it is the people who have been there, done
that, and have a box full of T-shirts to prove it who
are saying "you get what you pay for" It would be
iteresting to know what "bjacoby"s credits are. But
if you think "bjacoby" sounds more credible, go for it.

wrote:

[...] I tried to record seperate audio with this
wireless mic, and actually, the quality is pretty good, the only
problem was that the transmitter seemed to stop transmitting for a
split second every 5 minutes or so. I don't know if the transmitter
has a short circuit or what was going on there.


That's the problem with cheap wireless... the transmitter *may* have
been transmittering all along, but got swamped every time a taxi drove
by, or someone in the congregation sent a text message, or a ballast in
the fluorescent lighting chirped, or...

Never ever ever use wireless where a perfectly good wire will do, and if
you just gotta go wireless, don't use crap.

I personally despise the Audio-Technica, but admittedly my biggest gripe
is its ridiculously short range. If you keep the receiver really close,
maybe you'll be okay. Dave Morgan says they've worked for him and I
trust his opinion (though I doubt very much he's using the models at the
bottom of the price ladder).

The low-end Sennheisers (100 series,
http://www.sennheiser.com/sennheiser...tion_series100)
are quite a bit more than your budget (around $450-ish) but I agree with
Richard that they don't suck. If you could stretch your budget far
enough to get that system, you'd have something that would actually be
useful and that you'd feel like hanging onto instead of just throwing it
away in a year or two, which is what will happen if you buy a cheapie.
It will also prevent extreme client hostility, possible litigation and
maybe a really nasty punch in the nose by not screwing up in the middle
of the vows.

--
"It CAN'T be too loud... some of the red lights aren't even on yet!"
- Lorin David Schultz
in the control room
making even bad news sound good

(Remove spamblock to reply)

wrote:

Forget all the "you get what you pay for" crap around here. These
guys are used to paying 20 grand for microphones and can't understand
that you really aren't interested in recording every tiny nuance of
the speaker's voice at a wedding or event.

Benj, this has nothing to do with nuance or delicate aesthetic
sensibilities... it's about not having a recording that goes
"BCCCHHHHHTTTT!!!!! pft pft pft pft SPLACK!" just as the bride utters "I
do!"

Cheap wireless is susceptible to that. It won't *cause* it, it just
doesn't have the ability to *prevent* it like good stuff does. That's
why it's so freakin' dangerous, because it could work fine one minute
and go completely to hell the next.



Here are a couple of really good hints.
If you truly want wireless look into the Samson line

*WHAT?!* When do the "really good hints" start? That's about the WORST
advice I've read this week... he said he wants BETTER than what he got
at Radio Shack! Andrew, please, do NOT do this.

What's next, Azden? Please Benj, I know you mean well, but this kind of
stuff is just a disaster waiting to happen, and you do his clients a
disservice by leading him down this path. How would you like it if it
was YOUR wedding video that went in the toilet because of a ****ty mic?
You don't get a "take 2" at the altar.



The rest of what you suggested was good, just not the part about the
Samson wireless. Bad, bad, bad idea.

--
"It CAN'T be too loud... some of the red lights aren't even on yet!"
- Lorin David Schultz
in the control room
making even bad news sound good

(Remove spamblock to reply)

On 10 Jan 2006 23:30:06 -0800, wrote:

Forget all the "you get what you pay for" crap around here. These guys
are used to paying 20 grand for microphones and can't understand that
you really aren't interested in recording every tiny nuance of the
speaker's voice at a wedding or event.

He doesn't want dropouts though.

Cheap wireless systems sound good enough, certainly good enough for
the stated purpose, when they're working. But even the expensive ones
aren't over-reliable. Ask anyone who's run sound for a theatre etc.
whether they've EVER got through a run without a wireless mic problem
:-)

wrote in message
oups.com...

I am looking for a decent, reliable lapel wireless mic mainly for the
purposes of recording speakers at events such as weddings and
conferences. I would like to purchase one that cost around $200
although may be willing to go up to $250 if the quality increases a
lot. In the past, I have only really cared about wired mics, and have
never researched wireless mics so was hoping to get some ideas on which
wireless mics are considered decent since the prices seem to be all
over the place. It would be great if the transmitter had had a 1/4
jack input as so I could plug something into it if I was not using the
lapel mic on it. I plan on running the output of the receiver into my
Presonus Firebox (XLR or 1/4 inputs) which will be feeding into my dell
laptop running Sonar XL.

I inherited a number of cheap (e.g. Telex, Samson, and Nady) wireless mics
when I took over SR at my church. The only one of the cheap mics that keeps
on doing a good job is a Samson UHF diversity hand held. It actually
outperforms both of the Shure LX series mics that we have. It sounds good,
takes a licking, and provides reliable audio in an electrically noisy room
where the Shures fade.

This appears to be the current version of that Samson mic:

http://www.americanmusical.com/item-...brand-236.html


It's possible that some of the other Samson mics of a similar design might
be worth a darn.

wrote in message
oups.com...


Here are a couple of really good hints.
If you truly want wireless look into the Samson line of wireless gear.
You most definitely want UHF and not VHF. Reports on this gear have
been excellent and it's right up your price range.

I have a Samson UHF diversity hand-held mic that is just as reliable as my
Shure UHF lavs in a room that eats VHF mics including my two Shure LX. Its
been around for a while and taken some floor drops without any problems.

And also the idea about recording to a minidisk is sort of a good one.

Well, recording to some kind of a digital *modern* recorder...

Wireless mics can and do drop out and give problems. But I would
suggest rather than a minidisk which is expensive and prone vibration
problems, get an IRiver IFP-899 MP3 player and recorder.

There you go. This is the modern alternative to MD. One major benefit is
that you can download MP3s off a modern portable digital recorder
lickety-split - many times faster than real time.

It's as small
as the transmitter unit on most lapel setups. Has lots of memory,
downloads files to your computer for editing and has both line and mic
inputs. If the event has a PA board you can do line out right to the
899 works like a champ! It also has a built in mic and will record
voice. It has AGC and sort of works, but for really decent quality go
with some kind of mic or better a stereo mic into the external input.
It may take some experimenting to deal with levels etc. because it
really doesn't have any kind of level monitoring but the core system is
there.

One problem with independent digital recorders is that for long events, the
clock drift can get bad enough to mess with lip synch. Obviously this can be
corrected with some careful editing.

wrote:
I am looking for a decent, reliable lapel wireless mic mainly for the
purposes of recording speakers at events such as weddings and
conferences. I would like to purchase one that cost around $200

I expect that I'm just joining the party to tell you that $200 (or even
$250) is too cheap for either a decent mic or a decent wireless setup.

That being said, there are wireless lapel mic and receiver combinations
that are within your price range that will let you understand the
speech you record and will work over a distance of 50 feet or less
under good conditions. There is no clear winner. Buy whatever's
convenient and try it out in as many different spaces as you can to get
a sense of its range and learn about dead spots. If you find that it's
not good enough, try a different one. And if you want something that
you can rely on for both decent audio quality and decent RF quality,
multiply your budget by 4 or 5. You may find that it's not worth while,
and that wires are a better way to spend your money.

On Wed, 11 Jan 2006 02:30:06 -0500, wrote
(in article .com):

Forget all the "you get what you pay for" crap around here. These guys
are used to paying 20 grand for microphones and can't understand that
you really aren't interested in recording every tiny nuance of the
speaker's voice at a wedding or event.

Here are a couple of really good hints.
If you truly want wireless look into the Samson line of wireless gear.
You most definitely want UHF and not VHF. Reports on this gear have
been excellent and it's right up your price range.

Depending on where you are, that's no longer true. The migration to UHF has
left many VHF frequenciesmore open.

Regards,

Ty Ford


-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
stuff are at www.tyford.com

On Wed, 11 Jan 2006 03:08:33 -0500, Richard Crowley wrote
(in article ):

bjacoby wrote ...
Forget all the "you get what you pay for" crap around here. These guys
are used to paying 20 grand for microphones and can't understand that
you really aren't interested in recording every tiny nuance of the
speaker's voice at a wedding or event.
.....
Good luck

Any time you find a pro who buys a mic for $20K, let me know.

You have one shot to get the audio. If you don't get it because you
low-balled your specs and bought a cheap piece of crap wireless, you get what
you deserve from the bride and groom; usually they don't pay and they're
really ****ed that THEIR MOMENT was ****ed by YOU.

No I haven't been there. I have just heard about it.

Why don't you just hire a court stenographer to record the session and hand
them a nicely printed script at the end of the day?

Regards,

Ty Ford



-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
stuff are at www.tyford.com

"Ty Ford" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 11 Jan 2006 03:08:33 -0500, Richard Crowley wrote
(in article ):

bjacoby wrote ...
Forget all the "you get what you pay for" crap around here. These guys
are used to paying 20 grand for microphones and can't understand that
you really aren't interested in recording every tiny nuance of the
speaker's voice at a wedding or event.
.....
Good luck

Any time you find a pro who buys a mic for $20K, let me know.

You have one shot to get the audio. If you don't get it because you
low-balled your specs and bought a cheap piece of crap wireless, you get
what
you deserve from the bride and groom; usually they don't pay and they're
really ****ed that THEIR MOMENT was ****ed by YOU.

No I haven't been there. I have just heard about it.

Why don't you just hire a court stenographer to record the session and
hand
them a nicely printed script at the end of the day?

Regards,

Ty Ford

Having provided audio for wedding vidiots and my assorted soundsystems I
dare say there is a bit less pressure when capturing 'I do" than when you
are working the the most powerful man in the world committing his country
to war

this thread is making the simple task of picking up a wedding vow equal to
recording "I had a dream"

That said your best 10000$ wireless system is ALMOST as good a a 6$ hosa
mic cable as far as reliability of transmission goes

I own some pretty well respected wireless(shure ud4's) and even they drop
out so spending 2500$ for a wireless is still not going to "bulletproof "
this application

give the guy a A-T series 1400 lav set. back it up with a behringer ecm8000
omni on a stand

or if needed,fix it in post
George

George Gleason wrote:

this thread is making the simple task of picking up a wedding vow equal to
recording "I had a dream"

Well, to the couple getting married, who may be too young to remember
Dr. King, being able to clearly hear "I do" may be very prescious in 40
years (if they're still married). Ty's right - it's your job to get the
important words recorded. If you don't because of an equipment failure
- no matter whether it's a failure of the proper choice or just a plain
failure - you haven't done your job and the customer is going to be
upset.

Buying the bottom of the heap increases your chances of failure. Every
business has to set their own risk comfort level, and this, not just
price or perceived value, should be what determines the level of gear
you use. Nothing will absolutely guarantee success but you can mitigate
failure in several ways, one of which is to start with something that
isn't risky because of design or construction.

give the guy a A-T series 1400 lav set. back it up with a behringer ecm8000
omni on a stand

That sounds like a sensible approach.

On Wed, 11 Jan 2006 08:14:53 -0500, Ty Ford
wrote:

Depending on where you are, that's no longer true. The migration to UHF has
left many VHF frequenciesmore open.

But, in the UK at any rate, in danger of being reallocated to other
uses. Or so I think I heard. Any firm information about the 140
range?

wrote:
Forget all the "you get what you pay for" crap around here. These guys
are used to paying 20 grand for microphones and can't understand that
you really aren't interested in recording every tiny nuance of the
speaker's voice at a wedding or event.

No, but part of being professional is actually producing what you are
paid to produce and not saying "well, we lost that part because there
was a taxicab in the wireless mike."

Here are a couple of really good hints.
If you truly want wireless look into the Samson line of wireless gear.
You most definitely want UHF and not VHF. Reports on this gear have
been excellent and it's right up your price range.

I would personally cite the Samson gear as a prime example of what to
avoid. I have had to use this stuff on occasion and not only is the
audio quality not good, but more importantly the receiver is wide
as a barn and very subject to interfeence.

The poor quality audio you can probably live with. Losing a take
because of interference problems you cannot live with.

And also the idea about recording to a minidisk is sort of a good one.
Wireless mics can and do drop out and give problems. But I would
suggest rather than a minidisk which is expensive and prone vibration
problems, get an IRiver IFP-899 MP3 player and recorder. It's as small
as the transmitter unit on most lapel setups. Has lots of memory,
downloads files to your computer for editing and has both line and mic
inputs. If the event has a PA board you can do line out right to the
899 works like a champ!

This is not a bad idea at all. You need to ask, though, how long you
can record without compression. If you do use the compression, you
need to know how well it performs with widely varying levels; some
lossy compression algorithms are pretty good about it and others are
not.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

"Ty Ford" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 11 Jan 2006 02:30:06 -0500, wrote
(in article .com):

Forget all the "you get what you pay for" crap around here. These guys
are used to paying 20 grand for microphones and can't understand that
you really aren't interested in recording every tiny nuance of the
speaker's voice at a wedding or event.

Here are a couple of really good hints.
If you truly want wireless look into the Samson line of wireless gear.
You most definitely want UHF and not VHF. Reports on this gear have
been excellent and it's right up your price range.

Depending on where you are, that's no longer true. The migration to UHF
has
left many VHF frequenciesmore open.

The biggest problem I've found with VHF is interfering sources that aren't
other wireless audio gear. Some of them aren't even audio-related. I suspect
that I've got a problem with dimmers that are getting noisier in the VHF
band in their third decade. I've had to move some receivers around since I
got a digital console.

George Gleason wrote:

Having provided audio for wedding vidiots and my assorted soundsystems I
dare say there is a bit less pressure when capturing 'I do" than when you
are working the the most powerful man in the world committing his country
to war

Sure, but at the press conference, there are dozens of other guys feeding
off the pressbox. You can always get a tape from someone else if you
really screw it up.

With a wedding you don't have a backup.

this thread is making the simple task of picking up a wedding vow equal to
recording "I had a dream"

For the bride and groom, it is. That's the thing. I treat practice
tapes for the Choir That Can't Sing as seriously as a live symphony
broadcast, because they treat it seriously themselves, and they are
paying me to treat it seriously.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Scott Dorsey wrote:
George Gleason wrote:

Having provided audio for wedding vidiots and my assorted soundsystems I
dare say there is a bit less pressure when capturing 'I do" than when you
are working the the most powerful man in the world committing his country
to war

Sure, but at the press conference, there are dozens of other guys feeding
off the pressbox. You can always get a tape from someone else if you
really screw it up.

Yes.
But someone has to get the signal from the microphones TO the pressbox.
I think that is the comparison George was making, not just recording one
of the many identical feeds from the box.

Sander

"George Gleason" wrote in message
nk.net...


That said your best 10000$ wireless system is ALMOST as good a a 6$ hosa
mic cable as far as reliability of transmission goes

I own some pretty well respected wireless(shure ud4's) and even they drop
out so spending 2500$ for a wireless is still not going to "bulletproof "
this application

There's always batteries. You never really know when a battery is going to
die until it actually dies, early or late.

give the guy a A-T series 1400 lav set. back it up with a behringer
ecm8000 omni on a stand

Good advice about the ECM8000 backup - though a mic with lower internal
noise might be a good idea. I've got a wedding this weekend, and doing
something like this is on my agenda, to back up the wireless.

Have you thought about renting some high quality gear for each event?
This way you benefit from 1) Lower initial cash outlay, 2)happier
clients who in turn give you more business which, 3) allows you to put
this issue to bed and buy high quality gear. I doubt anyone on this
board would say that Shure, Sampson, Telex, AT, Nady are better then
venerable Lectro gear for this purpose. I know this to be true - I have
owned them & used them all, and while it is true that some of these
units will produce acceptable sound as long as you aren't too critical,
who wants to shoot planning/wondering/hoping that the last dropout or
viscous compander "squoosh" wasn't in a critical area? Not me...

Adam Rabinowitz
Sound for Film & Video
www.soundfilmvideo.com

wrote:
I am looking for a decent, reliable lapel wireless mic mainly for the
purposes of recording speakers at events such as weddings and
conferences. I would like to purchase one that cost around $200
although may be willing to go up to $250 if the quality increases a
lot. In the past, I have only really cared about wired mics, and have
never researched wireless mics so was hoping to get some ideas on which
wireless mics are considered decent since the prices seem to be all
over the place. It would be great if the transmitter had had a 1/4
jack input as so I could plug something into it if I was not using the
lapel mic on it. I plan on running the output of the receiver into my
Presonus Firebox (XLR or 1/4 inputs) which will be feeding into my dell
laptop running Sonar XL.

Thanks for any ideas,
Andrew V. Romero

Thanks again for all the information. I should again point out that I
am not going to ever be professionally recording and video taping
weddings. The occasions where it comes but usually involves me not
getting paid and no one paying for me to be doing this, it is more a
favor for the couple who were not going to ever be forking out large
amounts of money for a "real" wedding video person. So with that in
mind, I just can't really justify spending like $600+ on a wireless
setup. Renting is something I have thought about, but have not really
ever checked into how much renting that type of equipement cost.
Reading all the post above makes me wonder how using two cheaper mics
would work out? I could purchase one of the lower cost mics mentioned
here and strap both (the new one and the radio shack one) onto the
minister, and record audio signals seperately for each mic. Then as
long as both mics don't suddenly stop transmitting at the same time, I
would be able to splice together a decent audio track. What I am
really trying to get at here is a way to get better audio than just
having the camcorder record the audio. I am not looking for perfect
audio, a little hiss is okay, a little hum is okay, I just want better
than the consumer level camcorder mic.
-Andrew V. Romero

In article . com,
wrote:
Thanks again for all the information. I should again point out that I
am not going to ever be professionally recording and video taping
weddings. The occasions where it comes but usually involves me not
getting paid and no one paying for me to be doing this, it is more a
favor for the couple who were not going to ever be forking out large
amounts of money for a "real" wedding video person. So with that in
mind, I just can't really justify spending like $600+ on a wireless
setup. Renting is something I have thought about, but have not really
ever checked into how much renting that type of equipement cost.

I would definitely check into renting, then. If you're doing this sort
of thing on a regular basis, it is well worth the money to buy the gear.
But if you're just doing it now and then, ask the local film rental places
what they have. This also frees you from having to worry about the
frequency coordination issues; you just ask the rental house to set them
up for you and go.

Reading all the post above makes me wonder how using two cheaper mics
would work out? I could purchase one of the lower cost mics mentioned
here and strap both (the new one and the radio shack one) onto the
minister, and record audio signals seperately for each mic. Then as
long as both mics don't suddenly stop transmitting at the same time, I
would be able to splice together a decent audio track.

Maybe, depending on when they drop out.

What I am
really trying to get at here is a way to get better audio than just
having the camcorder record the audio. I am not looking for perfect
audio, a little hiss is okay, a little hum is okay, I just want better
than the consumer level camcorder mic.

Would you consider a wired mike? I know for a lot of things (and I
would bet wedding vows would be one), that this is impractical. But
it will give you a lot more for the buck than any wireless system.
If the church is already running a PA system and putting a wireless
pack on the minister for PA (which is getting to be common), there is
no reason you can't steal a feed off the PA. And then if there are
dropouts or some other problem, at the very least you can point fingers
at the PA guy...
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

"CincySoundGuy" wrote in message
.. .
Have you thought about renting some high quality gear for each event? This
way you benefit from 1) Lower initial cash outlay, 2)happier clients who
in turn give you more business which, 3) allows you to put this issue to
bed and buy high quality gear.

First, I agree that renting high quality gear vs. buying low quality
systems, such as those you identify below, is a good choice. However, I'm
curious --- have you had clients comment on sound quality in such a way that
leads you to suggest that clients are happier with the differences between
(for example) Shure or AT systems vs. Lectros, Audio Ltd., Zaxcom, etc.
systems. My experience is that clients only comment, when something really
sucks or is unreliable or fails. Otherwise, they seem oblivious to the
differences that critical professionals value. To me, as it relates to the
OP's needs (conference speakers/weddings) reliability is the key and worth
paying a premium price if necessary. I probably should start a new thread,
"Do clients really care about sound quality in dialogue recording?" It
seems to me that few even think about it, which makes our job of marketing
ourselves and our expensive equipment more difficult. Note that I exclude
high-end video and film projects, (and perhaps live music where I have no
experience) where clients and standards are different.

Steve King

Steve,
Not to sound smug, but no I haven't had any clients specify that "my
sound" would have been better if I had used XYZ branded gear. They are
paying me to make the judgment as to what will work best. It has been my
experience in most situations where dialogue alone will be heard (vows
at a wedding, corporate training, etc.) some of the "lesser" gear will
not yield as clean a sound as Lectros, Audio Ltd., or Zaxcom, or
Sennheiser. For instance, I have some Shure UC gear (handhelds, lavs,
etc.) which in a performance/live setting work very well. Almost no
dropouts and clear sound. Several years ago I used that same gear for an
indie film I was hired on by and during quiet, dramatic moments, quite
frankly it sounded awful - compander noise, spurious signals, really
quite unacceptable. For Andrew's needs I'm sure it would be fine, and I
would give him the benefit of the doubt that he knows what his clients
want and will accept. Since most of my work is ENG or film, Lectro is
the defacto standard since it holds up day-in-day-out, works predictably
well, and is recognizable by most of the folks who hire me. In truth I
am sure none of the producers I work for give a rats butt what I use as
long as it sounds good, but they do know that all of my competition is
using "the little brown ones" and that makes them feel better about
hiring me.

Cheers,
Adam Rabinowitz
Sound for Film & Video
www.soundfilmvideo.com

Steve King wrote:
First, I agree that renting high quality gear vs. buying low quality
systems, such as those you identify below, is a good choice. However, I'm
curious --- have you had clients comment on sound quality in such a way that
leads you to suggest that clients are happier with the differences between
(for example) Shure or AT systems vs. Lectros, Audio Ltd., Zaxcom, etc.
systems. My experience is that clients only comment, when something really
sucks or is unreliable or fails. Otherwise, they seem oblivious to the
differences that critical professionals value. To me, as it relates to the
OP's needs (conference speakers/weddings) reliability is the key and worth
paying a premium price if necessary. I probably should start a new thread,
"Do clients really care about sound quality in dialogue recording?" It
seems to me that few even think about it, which makes our job of marketing
ourselves and our expensive equipment more difficult. Note that I exclude
high-end video and film projects, (and perhaps live music where I have no
experience) where clients and standards are different.

Steve King

Steve King wrote:

First, I agree that renting high quality gear vs. buying low quality
systems, such as those you identify below, is a good choice. However, I'm
curious --- have you had clients comment on sound quality in such a way that
leads you to suggest that clients are happier with the differences between
(for example) Shure or AT systems vs. Lectros, Audio Ltd., Zaxcom, etc.
systems. My experience is that clients only comment, when something really
sucks or is unreliable or fails.

This is true. But you can bet there will be a comment if you tell them
"Sorry, the wireless mic failed and I didn't get the wedding vows
recorded. Hope you can read lips because the video is fine."

Rental houses don't usually rent low quality equipment because they
deal with professionals who rely on them to give them gear that won't
fail because of how it's designed or built. Admittedly some do,
particularly if you rent from a PA company rather than a place that
specializes in renting the kind of gear you need, but if you're renting
for a day, and you're hiring your services for a day, you should be
able to include the cost of the rental in your fee (assuming this isn't
a "doing it free because I have the camera and we're old friends" gig)
and not break the client's budget.

if you are happy with the audio quality of the Radio Shack and your
concern is the drop outs....

all RF wireless mics are suseptable to dropouts...the two main ways to
prevent that a



1) use a DIVERSITY receiver. A true diversity receiver MUST have 2 or
more separate antennas on it that are at least a foot or more apart

2) keep the receiver as close as possible to the action...

Mark

Richard Crowley wrote:
bjacoby wrote ...

Forget all the "you get what you pay for" crap around here. These guys
are used to paying 20 grand for microphones and can't understand that
you really aren't interested in recording every tiny nuance of the
speaker's voice at a wedding or event.

.....

Good luck


Alas, that is the best part of the advice.

The OP already revealed why he was dissatisfied with
the way the cheap wireless DIDN'T "record every tiny
nuance". Apparently "bjacoby" missed that posting.

Note that it is the people who have been there, done
that, and have a box full of T-shirts to prove it who
are saying "you get what you pay for" It would be
iteresting to know what "bjacoby"s credits are. But
if you think "bjacoby" sounds more credible, go for it.


I'm only about halfway through this thread, but perhaps--since the OP
stated that he doesn't have the need very often--he should be advised to
look into renting a good wireless setup when that need arises.

OTOH, in his budget, he might be able to pick up a fairly decent unit
second hand...requires very careful shopping and awareness of what is
good, but....

jak

Arny Krueger wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...


I am looking for a decent, reliable lapel wireless mic mainly for the
purposes of recording speakers at events such as weddings and
conferences. I would like to purchase one that cost around $200
although may be willing to go up to $250 if the quality increases a
lot. In the past, I have only really cared about wired mics, and have
never researched wireless mics so was hoping to get some ideas on which
wireless mics are considered decent since the prices seem to be all
over the place. It would be great if the transmitter had had a 1/4
jack input as so I could plug something into it if I was not using the
lapel mic on it. I plan on running the output of the receiver into my
Presonus Firebox (XLR or 1/4 inputs) which will be feeding into my dell
laptop running Sonar XL.


I inherited a number of cheap (e.g. Telex, Samson, and Nady) wireless mics
when I took over SR at my church. The only one of the cheap mics that keeps
on doing a good job is a Samson UHF diversity hand held. It actually
outperforms both of the Shure LX series mics that we have. It sounds good,
takes a licking, and provides reliable audio in an electrically noisy room
where the Shures fade.

I'd question your experience. I've used the Shures in very demanding
environments with little or no problems, BUT...

....even if what you state is real, the OP must keep in mind that you're
using the Samson in a single environment (IOW, you got lucky that there
are no sources of interference which glitch that particular mic at that
particular frequency). Weddings happen 'wherever'; and THAT'S when the
flexibility of a good--especially a frequency agile--unit will
outperform cheaper solutions.

jak


This appears to be the current version of that Samson mic:

http://www.americanmusical.com/item-...brand-236.html


It's possible that some of the other Samson mics of a similar design might
be worth a darn.

Except there's no mention of frequency agility. What if the guy in the
next ballroom is using the same frequency for 'his' event? Do you just
go in and tell him to STFU...cancel his (or your) gig?

jak

Steve King wrote:
"CincySoundGuy" wrote in message
.. .

Have you thought about renting some high quality gear for each event? This
way you benefit from 1) Lower initial cash outlay, 2)happier clients who
in turn give you more business which, 3) allows you to put this issue to
bed and buy high quality gear.


First, I agree that renting high quality gear vs. buying low quality
systems, such as those you identify below, is a good choice. However, I'm
curious --- have you had clients comment on sound quality in such a way that
leads you to suggest that clients are happier with the differences between
(for example) Shure or AT systems vs. Lectros, Audio Ltd., Zaxcom, etc.
systems. My experience is that clients only comment, when something really
sucks or is unreliable or fails. Otherwise, they seem oblivious to the
differences that critical professionals value. To me, as it relates to the
OP's needs (conference speakers/weddings) reliability is the key and worth
paying a premium price if necessary. I probably should start a new thread,
"Do clients really care about sound quality in dialogue recording?" It
seems to me that few even think about it, which makes our job of marketing
ourselves and our expensive equipment more difficult. Note that I exclude
high-end video and film projects, (and perhaps live music where I have no
experience) where clients and standards are different.

Steve King



Fortunately, I wasn't recording it, but....

The last wedding that I did, I had to provide sound reinforcement for
the bride, groom and minister on a pedestrian bridge over the Cumberland
River.

It should have been a fairly easy gig, except for the crappy wireless
mic's my client supplied...and the fact that the bride disappeared
shortly before the ceremony (not to mention the wind--more about that
below). I had to track her down in order to mic her up.

As it turned out, there I was--in full view of the wedding party and
guests--flagging down the *golf cart* carrying the bride in full wedding
regalia up the approach to the bridge, jumping on back behind her; and
installing the mic in/on the gown as we're riding up to the middle of
the bridge...accompanied by 'The Wedding March' (or some other tune, it
was a pretty 'esoteric' ceremony). I got everything situated, wardrobe
adjusted, dropped off the cart on the fly and raced back to the mixer in
time for the 'Dearly Beloveds....'

To compound the problems, the wind was gusting 20-30 mph all that time.
The mic's didn't drop out, per se; but the entire gig was spent trying
to pick up all three participants from the mic/mic's of whomever had the
quietest feed at the time. The wind was so variable, that one or the
other of the mic's would sound okay one second, then start 'blowing',
while another--which had been noisy before--would quiet down.

Weddings--especially outdoors--are a distinct PITA!

jak

"jakdedert" wrote in message
. ..
Arny Krueger wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...


I am looking for a decent, reliable lapel wireless mic mainly for the
purposes of recording speakers at events such as weddings and
conferences. I would like to purchase one that cost around $200
although may be willing to go up to $250 if the quality increases a
lot. In the past, I have only really cared about wired mics, and have
never researched wireless mics so was hoping to get some ideas on which
wireless mics are considered decent since the prices seem to be all
over the place. It would be great if the transmitter had had a 1/4
jack input as so I could plug something into it if I was not using the
lapel mic on it. I plan on running the output of the receiver into my
Presonus Firebox (XLR or 1/4 inputs) which will be feeding into my dell
laptop running Sonar XL.


I inherited a number of cheap (e.g. Telex, Samson, and Nady) wireless
mics when I took over SR at my church. The only one of the cheap mics
that keeps on doing a good job is a Samson UHF diversity hand held. It
actually outperforms both of the Shure LX series mics that we have. It
sounds good, takes a licking, and provides reliable audio in an
electrically noisy room where the Shures fade.

I'd question your experience. I've used the Shures in very demanding
environments with little or no problems, BUT...

...even if what you state is real, the OP must keep in mind that you're
using the Samson in a single environment (IOW, you got lucky that there
are no sources of interference which glitch that particular mic at that
particular frequency). Weddings happen 'wherever'; and THAT'S when the
flexibility of a good--especially a frequency agile--unit will outperform
cheaper solutions.

jak


This appears to be the current version of that Samson mic:

http://www.americanmusical.com/item-...brand-236.html

It's possible that some of the other Samson mics of a similar design
might be worth a darn.

Except there's no mention of frequency agility. What if the guy in the
next ballroom is using the same frequency for 'his' event? Do you just go
in and tell him to STFU...cancel his (or your) gig?

Oh, the frequency agile Samson models are a notch up.

http://www.zzounds.com/item--SAMSWYSL3

Arny Krueger wrote:

Except there's no mention of frequency agility. What if the guy in the
next ballroom is using the same frequency for 'his' event? Do you just go
in and tell him to STFU...cancel his (or your) gig?


Oh, the frequency agile Samson models are a notch up.

http://www.zzounds.com/item--SAMSWYSL3

IOW, out of his price point.....

jak

"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
oups.com...

Steve King wrote:

First, I agree that renting high quality gear vs. buying low quality
systems, such as those you identify below, is a good choice. However,
I'm
curious --- have you had clients comment on sound quality in such a way
that
leads you to suggest that clients are happier with the differences
between
(for example) Shure or AT systems vs. Lectros, Audio Ltd., Zaxcom, etc.
systems. My experience is that clients only comment, when something
really
sucks or is unreliable or fails.

This is true. But you can bet there will be a comment if you tell them
"Sorry, the wireless mic failed and I didn't get the wedding vows
recorded. Hope you can read lips because the video is fine."

Rental houses don't usually rent low quality equipment because they
deal with professionals who rely on them to give them gear that won't
fail because of how it's designed or built. Admittedly some do,
particularly if you rent from a PA company rather than a place that
specializes in renting the kind of gear you need, but if you're renting
for a day, and you're hiring your services for a day, you should be
able to include the cost of the rental in your fee (assuming this isn't
a "doing it free because I have the camera and we're old friends" gig)
and not break the client's budget.

there come a point ,and it is diffrent with each job where the costs
involved exceed the value of the work being done
I would bet even the RENTAL of a lectro system for this gig would mean it
simply was eliminated from the budget
and henceno chance of drop out as there would be NO recording
what the bulk of people are saying makes perfect sense when there is
thousands of dollars and reputation on the line
that is simply NOT the case, from what I am reading.
why not give the poor guy a fighting chance at a 95% solution he can afford
rather than tell him it simply is irresponsible to try this without a 3000$
mic system?
even a odd dropout will be tolerated except if he is doing the wedding for
the Bush girls
its not a perfect world and we should warn him of the issues buit also help
him work within the constraints of the project
George

"Arny Krueger" wrote:

Oh, the frequency agile Samson models are a notch up.

http://www.zzounds.com/item--SAMSWYSL3



Frequency agility solves one problem but just creates another. Because
of the way the front end has to be designed on a frequency agile
receiver (essentially wide enough to receive any frequency the
transmitter can produce) it becomes susceptible to other kinds of
interference. It's not a catch-all solution.

In good quality systems it's a good idea, because money is spent on
making the front end stable and selective. In an inexpensive system
there isn't the budget for the fine tolerance parts and picky alignment
required to make them safe.

That's why the "inexpensive" lines from companies like Lectro are fixed
frequency.

--
"It CAN'T be too loud... some of the red lights aren't even on yet!"
- Lorin David Schultz
in the control room
making even bad news sound good

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