[[email protected]]

I am very curious as to why I sing off-key when I am listening to
music through headphones. I can hear my own voice and it sounds on-key
when I sing along. I've noticed the same thing when others are singing
while wearing headphones. There must be a scientific reason for this.
If anyone out there can explain I'd sure appreciate it.

[Ty Ford]

On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 09:30:58 -0400, wrote
(in article
):

I am very curious as to why I sing off-key when I am listening to
music through headphones. I can hear my own voice and it sounds on-key
when I sing along. I've noticed the same thing when others are singing
while wearing headphones. There must be a scientific reason for this.
If anyone out there can explain I'd sure appreciate it.

Hi Kate,

Great to hear from someone else on this. I have the same problem. Fascinating
and IRRITATING. My take on it is MAYBE the volume level of the headphones is
too high and is actually pushing the eardrum slightly out of place. I have
taken the headphones off while listening to playback and have heard the pitch
change as I remove the phones.

I don't think I'm moving the phones quickly enough or far enough to create a
Doppler effect.

I have resulted to half covering my ears so I can hear the sound of my voice
in the room as well as the sound in the headphones.

I have heard from others that wearing one earpiece works for them and it's a
specific one. I don't remember which, but one side only was good, the other
side only was not good.

I thought, then, it might have something to do with right brain/left brain,
but I'm not sure.

Regards,

Ty Ford



--Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services
Acting and Voiceover Demos http://www.tyford.com
Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RZJ9MptZmU

[[email protected]]

On Jul 7, 9:30*am, wrote:
I am very curious as to why I sing off-key when I am listening to
music through headphones. I can hear my own voice and it sounds on-key
when I sing along. I've noticed the same thing when others are singing
while wearing headphones. There must be a scientific reason for this.
If anyone out there can explain I'd sure appreciate it.

I think it's the Doppler effect. Press the headphone close to the ear,
you get one pitch. Start to move it away, you get a slightly different
pitch. Move it back and forth, you also get slight pitch change.
Somebody with tech background might explain it better, but I think it
has to do with the way the ear perceives low frequencies.

Another issue is that, when we sing, we HEAR OURSELVES through the
air, and that helps us keep on pitch. Through phones, we hear
ourselves THROUGH THE PHONES, not the air, so it changes the way we
are used to hearing ourselves.

My solution: Use the phones with one cup on the ear, the other cup not
on the ear. Now you can hear yourself through the air, AND hear the
backing track. Ever see pictures of famous singers holding just one
cup to the ear?

[Chris Whealy]

wrote:
I am very curious as to why I sing off-key when I am listening to
music through headphones. I can hear my own voice and it sounds on-key
when I sing along. I've noticed the same thing when others are singing
while wearing headphones. There must be a scientific reason for this.
If anyone out there can explain I'd sure appreciate it.

Yes, this is a common problem. Although I don't have the precise
mechanism that explains why a person's judgement of pitch is affected,
the bottom line is that they cannot hear their own voice loudly enough
to accurately judge their pitch relative to the track. I've also seen
this happen during live performances when a singer cannot hear
themselves loudly enough in the foldback (the ladies tend to sing flat).

Maybe the sound that travels internally through the body to your ears
lacks enough the fundamental pitch for an accurate judgement to be
made. Not sure about that, but its definitely not the Doppler effect,
because this pitch shifting effect is only present when there is
relative movement between the sound source and the listener. So unless
you're wildly flapping your headphones around, it won't be the Doppler
effect.

Chris W

--
The voice of ignorance speaks loud and long,
But the words of the wise are quiet and few.
---

[philicorda[_6_]]

On Mon, 07 Jul 2008 06:30:58 -0700, kate38ca wrote:

I am very curious as to why I sing off-key when I am listening to music
through headphones. I can hear my own voice and it sounds on-key when I
sing along. I've noticed the same thing when others are singing while
wearing headphones. There must be a scientific reason for this. If
anyone out there can explain I'd sure appreciate it.

Other than just not using heaphones, or one ear off....

Have you tried experimenting with different reverbs on your voice in the
headphones?

I think it's easier to pitch when there is delayed sound coming back to
judge against. Perhaps it's harder to tell how pitch is *changing*
without hearing it beat against the pitch from a few ms before. Even in a
fairly dead room there will still be some reflections, and wearing
headphones masks them.

The reverb only has to be the right kind and length for the monitoring,
get it right just for that and worry about the final reverb when you mix.

[drichard]

Hi,

Many years ago I had a class in which we were taught that a person's
ability to distinguish pitch gets worse as volume increases. Seems to
be true, from my experience. So at loud volume, your singing may sound
on key. Turn the volume down and you can hear pitch discrepancies you
couldn't hear when it was loud.

This is a pretty common phenomenon. Notice how often that singers
(even some very good ones) lose pitch when playing a loud live
concert. Which also explains why there are so many awful sounding live
recordings.

Dean

On Jul 7, 8:30*am, wrote:
I am very curious as to why I sing off-key when I am listening to
music through headphones. I can hear my own voice and it sounds on-key
when I sing along. I've noticed the same thing when others are singing
while wearing headphones. There must be a scientific reason for this.
If anyone out there can explain I'd sure appreciate it.

[cporro]

years ago when i was in a very loud band i started to wear foam plugs.
i found it much easier to pitch. i always thought this was due to
hearing the fundamental (i'm a baratone) through my bone. now, i still
had problems with the tambre because obviously there are issue if you
can't hear much above 2k.

the idea of getting feedback from a slight delay/reverb is
interesting. i often leave one ear open now (other ear with cans on)
in the studio. putting a reverb or delay on the headset mix seems like
the worst thing to do. since blurring the signal can mask pitch
problems...but maybe i should try it and see.

[Predrag Trpkov]

wrote in message
...
I am very curious as to why I sing off-key when I am listening to
music through headphones. I can hear my own voice and it sounds on-key
when I sing along. I've noticed the same thing when others are singing
while wearing headphones. There must be a scientific reason for this.
If anyone out there can explain I'd sure appreciate it.



People tend to sing softer as the sound of their own voice in the headphones
gets louder and vice versa.

In general, when singing soft, one tends to sing flat and when singing loud,
one tends to sing sharp.

The subjective loudness can be easily adjusted via a Phones Level pot. If,
however, a headphone mix is not optimally balanced, as is often the case,
things get more complicated and singing in tune becomes more difficult. It's
not a trivial issue since it requires a different balance from the one
that's desired for the final mixdown and it can't be done properly when
monitoring through speakers. Or even through a different type of headphones
for that matter. It's a fine art.

This is not a scientific explanation, but if you sing consistently sharp or
consistently flat with a given headphone mix, it might give you an idea.

Predrag

[yrret]

Hum something and slowly cover your ears with your hands. Notice how the
pitch seems to change. Notice how much louder you are, yet your ears are
covered so you should be hearing less.

The trick seems to be adding enough reverb to the voice to recreate the
natural room sound of your voice so your brain stops referencing your body
voice for pitch.

For some people looking up with only their eyes causes them to sing flat.

Few people sing often with cans on so the loud sound going into a tense ear
creates a confused brain. Its like walking with stilts, mechanics are
similar but the interpetation has to change to be successful.

wrote in message
...
I am very curious as to why I sing off-key when I am listening to
music through headphones. I can hear my own voice and it sounds on-key
when I sing along. I've noticed the same thing when others are singing
while wearing headphones. There must be a scientific reason for this.
If anyone out there can explain I'd sure appreciate it.

[Steve King]

"Ty Ford" wrote in message
news | On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 09:30:58 -0400, wrote
| (in article
| ):
|
| I am very curious as to why I sing off-key when I am listening to
| music through headphones. I can hear my own voice and it sounds on-key
| when I sing along. I've noticed the same thing when others are singing
| while wearing headphones. There must be a scientific reason for this.
| If anyone out there can explain I'd sure appreciate it.
|
| Hi Kate,
|
| Great to hear from someone else on this. I have the same problem.
Fascinating
| and IRRITATING. My take on it is MAYBE the volume level of the headphones
is
| too high and is actually pushing the eardrum slightly out of place. I have
| taken the headphones off while listening to playback and have heard the
pitch
| change as I remove the phones.
|
| I don't think I'm moving the phones quickly enough or far enough to create
a
| Doppler effect.
|
| I have resulted to half covering my ears so I can hear the sound of my
voice
| in the room as well as the sound in the headphones.
|
| I have heard from others that wearing one earpiece works for them and it's
a
| specific one. I don't remember which, but one side only was good, the
other
| side only was not good.
|
| I thought, then, it might have something to do with right brain/left
brain,
| but I'm not sure.
|
| Regards,
|
| Ty Ford

When I was recording the members of Singers Unlimited, the very busy jingle
group in Chicago in the 70s & 80s, most preferred a single earphone for cue,
but several used double phones. Pitch was simply not an issue for any of
these great singers, whichever approach they preferred. I've had many
performers ask for speaker cue vs. headphones, claiming pitch difficulties.
The bleed from the speaker (typically a small cube speaker on a mic stand)
was far less of a problem than one might think.

Steve KIng

[Max[_4_]]

wrote in message
...
I am very curious as to why I sing off-key when I am listening to
music through headphones.

CAN you sing? ;-) Sorry, bad joke.

[[email protected]]

On Jul 7, 9:30*am, wrote:
I am very curious as to why I sing off-key when I am listening to
music throughheadphones. I can hear my own voice and it sounds on-key
when I sing along. I've noticed the same thing when others aresinging
while wearingheadphones. There must be a scientific reason for this.
If anyone out there can explain I'd sure appreciate it.

[[email protected]]

On Jul 7, 9:30*am, wrote:
I am very curious as to why I sing off-key when I am listening to
music through headphones. I can hear my own voice and it sounds on-key
when I sing along. I've noticed the same thing when others are singing
while wearing headphones. There must be a scientific reason for this.
If anyone out there can explain I'd sure appreciate it.

Thanks for responding everyone. I now have a better idea why this
happens. I have noticed people cupping one ear while recording but
never knew why. Very interesting.

[[email protected]]

On Jul 7, 9:30*am, wrote:
I am very curious as to why I sing off-key when I am listening to
music through headphones. I can hear my own voice and it sounds on-key
when I sing along. I've noticed the same thing when others are singing
while wearing headphones. There must be a scientific reason for this.
If anyone out there can explain I'd sure appreciate it.

Thanks for responding everyone. I now have a better idea why this
happens.

[dhs]

On Jul 7, 10:33 am, Chris Whealy wrote:
wrote:
I am very curious as to why I sing off-key when I am listening to
music through headphones. I can hear my own voice and it sounds on-key
when I sing along. I've noticed the same thing when others are singing
while wearing headphones. There must be a scientific reason for this.
If anyone out there can explain I'd sure appreciate it.

Yes, this is a common problem. Although I don't have the precise
mechanism that explains why a person's judgement of pitch is affected,
the bottom line is that they cannot hear their own voice loudly enough
to accurately judge their pitch relative to the track. I've also seen
this happen during live performances when a singer cannot hear
themselves loudly enough in the foldback (the ladies tend to sing flat).

Maybe the sound that travels internally through the body to your ears
lacks enough the fundamental pitch for an accurate judgement to be
made. Not sure about that, but its definitely not the Doppler effect,
because this pitch shifting effect is only present when there is
relative movement between the sound source and the listener. So unless
you're wildly flapping your headphones around, it won't be the Doppler
effect.

Chris W

--
The voice of ignorance speaks loud and long,
But the words of the wise are quiet and few.
---

So -- how about in-ear monitors? People seem to be able to sing
relatively well with them, although it may be a learned skill; my own
experience matches that of others, that wearing good sealed-back
headphones on both ears makes it very hard to sing in tune, a single
works pretty well (left handed and I uncover my right ear...statistics
anyone?), but with in-ear monitors in both ears I do better than with
headphones. I don't have a model for why that should be. (a single in-
ear monitor is also nice -- more comfortable than asymmetric
headphones, and less leakage)

dhs

[Chris Whealy]

dhs wrote:
On Jul 7, 10:33 am, Chris Whealy wrote:

wrote:

I am very curious as to why I sing off-key when I am listening to
music through headphones. I can hear my own voice and it sounds on-key
when I sing along. I've noticed the same thing when others are singing
while wearing headphones. There must be a scientific reason for this.
If anyone out there can explain I'd sure appreciate it.

Yes, this is a common problem. Although I don't have the precise
mechanism that explains why a person's judgement of pitch is affected,
the bottom line is that they cannot hear their own voice loudly enough
to accurately judge their pitch relative to the track. I've also seen
this happen during live performances when a singer cannot hear
themselves loudly enough in the foldback (the ladies tend to sing flat).

Maybe the sound that travels internally through the body to your ears
lacks enough the fundamental pitch for an accurate judgement to be
made. Not sure about that, but its definitely not the Doppler effect,
because this pitch shifting effect is only present when there is
relative movement between the sound source and the listener. So unless
you're wildly flapping your headphones around, it won't be the Doppler
effect.

Chris W

--
The voice of ignorance speaks loud and long,
But the words of the wise are quiet and few.
---


So -- how about in-ear monitors? People seem to be able to sing
relatively well with them, although it may be a learned skill; my own
experience matches that of others, that wearing good sealed-back
headphones on both ears makes it very hard to sing in tune, a single
works pretty well (left handed and I uncover my right ear...statistics
anyone?), but with in-ear monitors in both ears I do better than with
headphones. I don't have a model for why that should be. (a single in-
ear monitor is also nice -- more comfortable than asymmetric
headphones, and less leakage)

dhs

My point was that the singer needs to be able to hear themselves loudly
enough - be it by taking one side of the cans off or by having their own
mic added into their headphone mix.

I've done recording sessions where the singer was more comfortable
taking one side of the cans off. And then I've done other recording
sessions where the same singer's own voice was added into the headphone
mix, and they were fine with that also.

To be honest, I think that many of the problems that musicians/singers
have with using headphones comes from the fact that recording engineers
often have never had to be on the receiving end of a monitor mix.
Consequently, they can't relate to the fact that the monitor mix, to a
large extent, defines the musician's performance space. If it doesn't
feel right, you won't get a good performance.

I played drums for 20 years, but now that I'm sitting on the other side
of the microphones, I can listen to a monitor mix and know whether it is
what I would want if I were sitting were the musician is.

Headphones often block out the acoustic ambient and this also plays
vital part in creating the right feeling in the performance space for
the singer/musician. So, they might also want one ear off when wearing
headphones because they loose the ambience of the room.

Chris W

--
The voice of ignorance speaks loud and long,
But the words of the wise are quiet and few.
---

[Earl Kiosterud]

"drichard" wrote in message
...
Hi,

Many years ago I had a class in which we were taught that a person's
ability to distinguish pitch gets worse as volume increases. Seems to
be true, from my experience. So at loud volume, your singing may sound
on key. Turn the volume down and you can hear pitch discrepancies you
couldn't hear when it was loud.

This is a pretty common phenomenon. Notice how often that singers
(even some very good ones) lose pitch when playing a loud live
concert. Which also explains why there are so many awful sounding live
recordings.

Dean

On Jul 7, 8:30 am, wrote:
I am very curious as to why I sing off-key when I am listening to
music through headphones. I can hear my own voice and it sounds on-key
when I sing along. I've noticed the same thing when others are singing
while wearing headphones. There must be a scientific reason for this.
If anyone out there can explain I'd sure appreciate it.


This is the one. It's volume. It's easy to underestimate volume with headphones (I've read
of radio people losing hearing because of loud headphones). The volume/pitch phenomenon is
very real. Try a low-pitched sine from a sig gen (or an audio editor or test CD or
whatever), around 150 Hz. Speakers or phones. Turn up the volume -- the pitch will rise.
Try a high frequency, and it will drop. It's quite striking.

Singers, especially amateur ones, like to hear themselves bathed in their own sound, making
it easier to lose the reference from the music, as well as the volume/pitch phenomenon. If
they can train themselves to do with less of their own voice, they will do much better.

--
Earl

[miniminim]

On Jul 7, 6:30 am, wrote:
I am very curious as to why I sing off-key when I am listening to
music through headphones. I can hear my own voice and it sounds on-key
when I sing along. I've noticed the same thing when others are singing
while wearing headphones. There must be a scientific reason for this.
If anyone out there can explain I'd sure appreciate it.

FWIW I remember reading somewhere (it's been 30 years, so can't recall
source) that when plugging one ear in an attempt to hear the pitch of
one's own voice in an ensemble, it is more effective to plug the right
ear. It would seem that with headphones this would suggest having only
the right earcup on.
In a session, if a singer has trouble with pitch I do suggest doing
this, and if it doesn't work we'll try the other ear.

At the least, this focuses attention on the pitch issue.

One thing I have noticed that I can't begin to explain is that when I
take headphones off fairly rapidly during a held note, there seems to
be a very exaggerated doppler effect, far beyond what should be
happening given the speed of removal, where the pitch lowers.

[yrret]

"miniminim" wrote in message
...
On Jul 7, 6:30 am, wrote:
I am very curious as to why I sing off-key when I am listening to
music through headphones. I can hear my own voice and it sounds on-key
when I sing along. I've noticed the same thing when others are singing
while wearing headphones. There must be a scientific reason for this.
If anyone out there can explain I'd sure appreciate it.

FWIW I remember reading somewhere (it's been 30 years, so can't recall
source) that when plugging one ear in an attempt to hear the pitch of
one's own voice in an ensemble, it is more effective to plug the right
ear. It would seem that with headphones this would suggest having only
the right earcup on.
In a session, if a singer has trouble with pitch I do suggest doing
this, and if it doesn't work we'll try the other ear.

At the least, this focuses attention on the pitch issue.

One thing I have noticed that I can't begin to explain is that when I
take headphones off fairly rapidly during a held note, there seems to
be a very exaggerated doppler effect, far beyond what should be
happening given the speed of removal, where the pitch lowers.

Perhaps its related to why the left output of stereo devices is usually
designated as also the mono side.
Nothing more to add just made me realize I have no idea why left is usually
used for mono.

[RDOGuy]

On Jul 8, 6:56*am, dhs wrote:

my own
experience matches that of others, that wearing good sealed-back
headphones on both ears makes it very hard to sing in tune, a single
works pretty well (left handed and I uncover my right ear...statistics
anyone?), but with in-ear monitors in both ears I do better than with
headphones.

Let's ask this question: is this comparison a true test - that is,
have you compared headphones (either one ear or two) with IEMs (either
one ear or two) in exactly the same situation? In other words, if
your experience with headphones is in a studio environment, and your
experience with IEMs is in a stage environment, there are a whole lot
of other variables at work, too - not the least of which is your own
perception of how well you are maintaining pitch! In a studio
environment, you generally get to hear a playback of your performance
and make a careful evaluation of it (as the saying goes, "the tape
don't lie") while in a stage environment you generally do not.

Please understand... I'm not discounting your view. I'm just asking
for more details about your experience.

[WillStG]

On Jul 8, 12:21*am, wrote:
Thanks for responding everyone. I now have a better idea why this
happens. I have noticed people cupping one ear while recording but
never knew why. Very interesting.

A trick some singers I've seen use for singing on pitch even without
decent monitoring, they'd stuff one ear with tissue, and having
practiced singing that way to hear pitch in their heads they would
have a constant point of reference they were familiar with on stage.

Will Miho
NY TV/Audio Post/Music/Live Sound Guy
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits

[dhs]

On Jul 9, 9:07 am, RDOGuy wrote:
On Jul 8, 6:56 am, dhs wrote:

my own
experience matches that of others, that wearing good sealed-back
headphones on both ears makes it very hard to sing in tune, a single
works pretty well (left handed and I uncover my right ear...statistics
anyone?), but with in-ear monitors in both ears I do better than with
headphones.

Let's ask this question: is this comparison a true test - that is,
have you compared headphones (either one ear or two) with IEMs (either
one ear or two) in exactly the same situation? In other words, if
your experience with headphones is in a studio environment, and your
experience with IEMs is in a stage environment, there are a whole lot
of other variables at work, too - not the least of which is your own
perception of how well you are maintaining pitch! In a studio
environment, you generally get to hear a playback of your performance
and make a careful evaluation of it (as the saying goes, "the tape
don't lie") while in a stage environment you generally do not.

Please understand... I'm not discounting your view. I'm just asking
for more details about your experience.

My experience is only in my home studio -- big and live enough so that
there is some valuable feedback coming from the space (and yes the
recording which unfortunately does not lie). I don't think it is a
huge difference, but something that others may want to try -- as an
alternative to the half-a-headphone.

(I still marvel at that photo two Beatles tracking harmony into the
two sensitive lobes of a figure 8 mic, with a huge speaker at the null
providing the playback of the previous tracks)

dhs

[WillStG]

On Jul 10, 1:14*pm, dhs wrote:
(I still marvel at that photo two Beatles tracking harmony into the
two sensitive lobes of a figure 8 mic, with a huge speaker at the null
providing the playback of the previous tracks)

You can also put a second speaker equidistant from the mic with
it's polarity reversed, that way they cancel each other out (except
for the difference between the 2 speakers...) Still not an uncommon
studio technique with singers who sing better without cans.

Will Miho
NY TV/Audio Post/Music/Live Sound Guy
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits

[Laurence Payne[_2_]]

On Thu, 10 Jul 2008 20:53:31 -0700 (PDT), WillStG
wrote:


You can also put a second speaker equidistant from the mic with
it's polarity reversed, that way they cancel each other out (except
for the difference between the 2 speakers...) Still not an uncommon
studio technique with singers who sing better without cans.

I've always wondered about this technique. If sound cancels out for
the mic, why not for the singer?

[Romeo Rondeau[_4_]]

Laurence Payne wrote:
On Thu, 10 Jul 2008 20:53:31 -0700 (PDT), WillStG
wrote:

You can also put a second speaker equidistant from the mic with
it's polarity reversed, that way they cancel each other out (except
for the difference between the 2 speakers...) Still not an uncommon
studio technique with singers who sing better without cans.

I've always wondered about this technique. If sound cancels out for
the mic, why not for the singer?

Because there's only one mouth.

[Laurence Payne[_2_]]

On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 07:34:48 -0500, Romeo Rondeau
wrote:

You can also put a second speaker equidistant from the mic with
it's polarity reversed, that way they cancel each other out (except
for the difference between the 2 speakers...) Still not an uncommon
studio technique with singers who sing better without cans.

I've always wondered about this technique. If sound cancels out for
the mic, why not for the singer?

Because there's only one mouth.

I mean the singer's EARS of course!

[Scott Dorsey]

Laurence Payne wrote:
On Thu, 10 Jul 2008 20:53:31 -0700 (PDT), WillStG
wrote:


You can also put a second speaker equidistant from the mic with
it's polarity reversed, that way they cancel each other out (except
for the difference between the 2 speakers...) Still not an uncommon
studio technique with singers who sing better without cans.

I've always wondered about this technique. If sound cancels out for
the mic, why not for the singer?

Because it cancels out only at a single position. Move the mike an
inch, and the cancellation stops working. This makes something of a
pain to set up, but it does work remarkably well.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Romeo Rondeau[_4_]]

Laurence Payne wrote:
On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 07:34:48 -0500, Romeo Rondeau
wrote:

You can also put a second speaker equidistant from the mic with
it's polarity reversed, that way they cancel each other out (except
for the difference between the 2 speakers...) Still not an uncommon
studio technique with singers who sing better without cans.
I've always wondered about this technique. If sound cancels out for
the mic, why not for the singer?
Because there's only one mouth.

I mean the singer's EARS of course!

Oh, that's because they are 5 inches or so apart.

[[email protected]]

Kate,

Everyone has what works for them, and sometimes it clicks after years
of engineers shoving different headphones at them with the kind of
cranky look that says "don't even think of asking for something
else" : ) So who knew you had some options?


I will say this, though. Whenever I have an experienced studio singer
come in, 90% of the time they'll take whatever headphone is set out
for them and immediately put one side off an ear. They also usually
instinctively cover the unused one with side of their head so there
won't be feedback (between the mic and the exposed headphone side.)

Have fun.

v

[philicorda[_6_]]

On Thu, 10 Jul 2008 20:53:31 -0700, WillStG wrote:

On Jul 10, 1:14Â*pm, dhs wrote:
(I still marvel at that photo two Beatles tracking harmony into the two
sensitive lobes of a figure 8 mic, with a huge speaker at the null
providing the playback of the previous tracks)

You can also put a second speaker equidistant from the mic with
it's polarity reversed, that way they cancel each other out (except for
the difference between the 2 speakers...) Still not an uncommon studio
technique with singers who sing better without cans.

Another one is to record a spill track from the mic with the singer just
standing in place and not singing.
Then after they have done their take you can knock the 'spill track' out
of phase and mix it with the vocal take.

This has worked quite well for me in the past when other methods were
impractical. It's nice as you don't need to be so careful about where the
speakers are.

[Badmuts]

This has worked quite well for me in the past when other methods were
impractical. It's nice as you don't need to be so careful about where the
speakers are.

That sounds like a great technique. I'm going to try it!

Bm

[philicorda[_6_]]

On Sat, 12 Jul 2008 11:26:18 +0200, Badmuts wrote:

This has worked quite well for me in the past when other methods were
impractical. It's nice as you don't need to be so careful about where
the speakers are.

That sounds like a great technique. I'm going to try it!

While I remember...

Nothing must change in the room after recording the spill track. Speaker
position, mic position, levels, where people are sitting in the room, it
all has to stay exactly the same.

I got better cancellation in the bass end then the treble. So I did a
high shelf on the spill track and cut the top end a bit.

One interesting thing to do is record white noise as the spill track, and
then do a take without singing, just walking round the room.
After the tracks are summed, you hear stuff cancel and add as you reflect
and absorb the sound. It sounded a bit like noise through a comb filter
going into a phaser.