How should i go about putting a system in my 96 explorer. I already put in
a panasonic dfx583 head unit. I want Audiobahn 12" 1000-Watt Subwoofers and
an amp or 2 to power those. And Also when do u need an extra battery,
distribution block, capacitor. Thanks in Advance.

-Ryan

How should i go about putting a system in my 96 explorer.

If you don't know how to do things yourself, letting a shop take care of the
installation is probably the best idea. Car audio install is something that
anyone can learn to do, but you may find that your car is out of comission for
1 to 2 days when doing a medium to large install for the first time yourself.

Also when do u need an extra battery,

A good battery like an Optima Yellow Top should work just fine on it's own
till' you really start going nuts. Systems making several thousand watts and
generally used for competition are the ones that need aux. power.

distribution block

That's something else that usually doesn't need replacing till your system gets
particularly large. I've heard that some smaller cars (Honda Civic...) need
alternator upgrades with medium sized systems but little else is done before
getting into competition level. I think the Explorer has a pretty hefty power
system already. You may want to pick up a copy of The Car Stereo Cookbook, it's
a fairly comprehensive guide that'll help you plan for this stuff and it's
carried by most major book sellers.

"Ryan Hughes" wrote in message
...
How should i go about putting a system in my 96 explorer. I already put
in
a panasonic dfx583 head unit. I want Audiobahn 12" 1000-Watt Subwoofers
and
an amp or 2 to power those. And Also when do u need an extra battery,
distribution block, capacitor. Thanks in Advance.

-Ryan



I would recommend a different subwoofer, I dont like the way Audiobahns
sound, and I think most posters here would agree. JL Audio, Image Dynamics,
and Elemental Designs are much better subwoofers. There are others as well
to consider.

But as the other fella suggested install is the MOST important aspect. Even
the nicest system will sound terrible without a good install.

I would recommend a different subwoofer, I dont like the way Audiobahns
sound, and I think most posters here would agree.

What does anyone elses listening preferences have to do with this? Maybe he
has heard those Audiobahn subs, and they sound just dandy to him. Who knows.
I don't think a reccomendation based entirely on "I don't like the way they
sound" it very productive.

Nick

At this point, I don't think I'd make many friends if I chimed in with "all
subs sound the same."

"TheBIessedDead" wrote in message
...
I would recommend a different subwoofer, I dont like the way Audiobahns
sound, and I think most posters here would agree.

What does anyone elses listening preferences have to do with this? Maybe
he
has heard those Audiobahn subs, and they sound just dandy to him. Who
knows.
I don't think a reccomendation based entirely on "I don't like the way
they
sound" it very productive.

Nick

At this point, I don't think I'd make many friends if I chimed in with "all
subs sound the same."

Heh Well, it'd be entertaining at least.



Nick

How about you can buy something FAR SUPERIOR for LESS MONEY?

"TheBIessedDead" wrote in message
...
I would recommend a different subwoofer, I dont like the way Audiobahns
sound, and I think most posters here would agree.

What does anyone elses listening preferences have to do with this? Maybe
he
has heard those Audiobahn subs, and they sound just dandy to him. Who
knows.
I don't think a reccomendation based entirely on "I don't like the way
they
sound" it very productive.

Nick

How about you can buy something FAR SUPERIOR for LESS MONEY?

Again, if he likes them, who are you to tell him what is far superior?

Besides, if I recall, he didn't ask for sub opinions at all.

Nick

"TheBIessedDead" wrote in message
...
How about you can buy something FAR SUPERIOR for LESS MONEY?

Again, if he likes them, who are you to tell him what is far superior?

Besides, if I recall, he didn't ask for sub opinions at all.

Nick

He asked our opinion and we gave it. Chances are he has never heard of ED
or JL etc etc. The honest truth is I prefer their sound, and thats what I
would recommend. If he thinks otherwise AFTER listening to all of them,
then I wouldnt argue with him. I agree that what sounds better to me IS
better to me, but if I ask someone for a suggestion, I would LOVE for them
to tell me what sounds better to them. I am not knocking Audiobahn, I just
dont like the way they sound, especially for the money.

He asked our opinion and we gave it.

No, he didn't ask for any opinions on subs. He said he wants Audiobahn subs.
That is all he said on the subject. The only real questions he asked was about
capacitors and batteries and such... and possibly what amps to power his
system. He stated quite clearly what sub he wanted, so telling him that you
don't like the subs he wants is pointless.

Nick

"TheBIessedDead" wrote in message
...
He asked our opinion and we gave it.

No, he didn't ask for any opinions on subs. He said he wants Audiobahn
subs.
That is all he said on the subject. The only real questions he asked was
about
capacitors and batteries and such... and possibly what amps to power his
system. He stated quite clearly what sub he wanted, so telling him that
you
don't like the subs he wants is pointless.

Nick

"How should i go about putting a system in my 96 explorer. I already put in
a panasonic dfx583 head unit. I want Audiobahn 12" 1000-Watt Subwoofers and
an amp or 2 to power those. And Also when do u need an extra battery,
distribution block, capacitor. Thanks in Advance."

Firsty Nick, get off your soap box bro, I am not out to get anyone, and I
certainly dont think I hurt the OP by suggesting those subs.

His original quote above was VERY broad and not well put to say the least.
To me, it sounded like he wanted advice. He said " I want Audiobahn 12"
1000-Watt Subwoofers and an amp or 2 to power those. *And Also*..." The
"AND ALSO" part made me believe that he was not sure about the subs and
wanted advice. He did ask what amps to use, and "when do u need an extra
battery" and I will answer those below.

So I can tell him what amps, but not what subs?? He hasnt already bought
the Audiobahns according to his post, so WHY CANT I SUGGEST OTHERS.

BTW OP I like my Hifonics amp very very much. Before you buy a second
battery, you should invest in a high current alternator or a capacitor, you
will need a distro box if you have a capacitor or more than one amp.

"Mark Zarella" wrote in message
...
At this point, I don't think I'd make many friends if I chimed in with
"all
subs sound the same."


Well my current ED12A sounds MUCH better than my old Pioneer subs. An those
sounded better than the Audiobahns I heard at circuit city.

Sure alot has to do with install, most probably, but you cant say all subs
are equal.

Plus the ED has a 3 year warranty.

"How should i go about putting a system in my 96 explorer. I already put in
a panasonic dfx583 head unit. I want Audiobahn 12" 1000-Watt Subwoofers and
an amp or 2 to power those. And Also when do u need an extra battery,
distribution block, capacitor. Thanks in Advance."

Firsty Nick, get off your soap box bro, I am not out to get anyone, and I
certainly dont think I hurt the OP by suggesting those subs.

He states quite clearly that he "WANTS" Audiobahn subs. Then you respond
telling him not to get them because YOU do not like how they sound. That is in
no way what he is asking,and I really don't see how that is helpful to him.
I'm not on any soap box, or out to get anyone myself, but I think people get
pretty carried away with constantly reccomending stuff online. So many times I
see someone who just wants to add some bass to their system, and will be quite
happy with basic components that will do just that, and they get a million
reccomendations for things that they cannot audition, and most likely don't
need. If he likes the Audiobahns, and they fit into his price range, do you
really think he will benefit greatly from an ED, Adire, ID, JL etc.. sub? I
would venture to say that the average person who wants to just add some bass to
his system would be quite happy with Audiobahn, Rockford,Sony,Alpine,Kenwood or
any other number of subs.

I understand where you are coming from, and with the money I'm sure he's going
to pay, I agree that there is better stuff out there. But for all we know,
he's paying 25 bucks a piece for those subs, and loves them to death.

His original quote above was VERY broad and not well put to say the least.

Agreed.

To me, it sounded like he wanted advice. He said " I want Audiobahn 12"
1000-Watt Subwoofers and an amp or 2 to power those. *And Also*..." The
"AND ALSO" part made me believe that he was not sure about the subs and
wanted advice.

I'm not sure where the "and also" came from, but to me it sounds like he knows
exactly what subs he wants (I'm sure he figured listing their peak power
handling would clue us in to exactly which sub he was wanting), and was looking
only for amp suggestions.
I guess we just agree to disagree here, as it doesn't appear the OP is coming
back. lol




So I can tell him what amps, but not what subs?? He hasnt already bought
the Audiobahns according to his post, so WHY CANT I SUGGEST OTHERS.

Suggesting others is fine, but doing so while just using your own listening
preferences as a standard is pointless. Thats like someone asking you the
best place in town to get a steak, and you say "Don't eat steak, I don't like
it....Eat chicken instead". It really doesn't answer their original question.

BTW OP I like my Hifonics amp very very much. Before you buy a second
battery, you should invest in a high current alternator or a capacitor, you
will need a distro box if you have a capacitor or more than one amp.

If the OP is still around, I would check out JBL amps... For the money, they
can hardly be touched IMO. The BP600.1 can be had for around 190 bucks.

Nick

I understand where you are coming from as well. The impression I got from
his first post is that he wanted general advice. I gave him MY advice. He
doesnt have to follow it, obviously. If he had already bought the subs I
wouldnt have said anything. But I think most of us can agree that for the
money, since he has not already bought the subs, he might be better off with
other subs. Sure the Audiobahns will work, and get loud too. But say if my
brother were to buy new subs, I would steer him elsewhere, just like I did
with the OP. Why? because to me they just sound better. Especially at
high power. What other reason do I need to recommend something? If the OP
tells me that he listened to others and likes Audiobahn more, then thats
that, I will shut up.

I agree with you in principle, what sounds better to you may not sound
better to me, and you have to get what sounds better to you. But I am
failry certain the OP never heard other subs considering the rudimentary
questions he is asking.

We can agree to disagree, but I am not sure we disagree.

Audiobahn=bad, ImageDynamics=good

why? Cuz I am the CAR AUDIO GOD HAHAHA SO THERE

peace bro



"Jason" wrote in message
...
I understand where you are coming from as well. The impression I got from
his first post is that he wanted general advice. I gave him MY advice.
He
doesnt have to follow it, obviously. If he had already bought the subs I
wouldnt have said anything. But I think most of us can agree that for the
money, since he has not already bought the subs, he might be better off
with
other subs. Sure the Audiobahns will work, and get loud too. But say if
my
brother were to buy new subs, I would steer him elsewhere, just like I did
with the OP. Why? because to me they just sound better. Especially at
high power. What other reason do I need to recommend something? If the
OP
tells me that he listened to others and likes Audiobahn more, then thats
that, I will shut up.

I agree with you in principle, what sounds better to you may not sound
better to me, and you have to get what sounds better to you. But I am
failry certain the OP never heard other subs considering the rudimentary
questions he is asking.

We can agree to disagree, but I am not sure we disagree.

I dont see anything wrong with the way AudioBahn subs sound!!

But there are alof of subs out there that sound just as good so there
is alot ot choose from....

Jason wrote:

I understand where you are coming from as well. The impression I got from
his first post is that he wanted general advice. I gave him MY advice. He
doesnt have to follow it, obviously. If he had already bought the subs I
wouldnt have said anything. But I think most of us can agree that for the
money, since he has not already bought the subs, he might be better off with
other subs. Sure the Audiobahns will work, and get loud too. But say if my
brother were to buy new subs, I would steer him elsewhere, just like I did
with the OP. Why? because to me they just sound better. Especially at
high power. What other reason do I need to recommend something? If the OP
tells me that he listened to others and likes Audiobahn more, then thats
that, I will shut up.

I agree with you in principle, what sounds better to you may not sound
better to me, and you have to get what sounds better to you. But I am
failry certain the OP never heard other subs considering the rudimentary
questions he is asking.

We can agree to disagree, but I am not sure we disagree.

You are right, and the OP may not either, we all have different tastes, but
I was offering mine. To me my ED sounds way better than the Audiobahns.
Now a 40Hz tone is a 40Hz tone is a 40Hz tone, BUT music is rarely a single
40Hz tone. Music in my car on my subs sound better, louder, cleaner, more
distinct than the Audiobahns.

But I have certainly heard worse than Audiobahns.

Where on Earth is the OP anyhow?


"Eddie Runner" wrote in message
...
I dont see anything wrong with the way AudioBahn subs sound!!

But there are alof of subs out there that sound just as good so there
is alot ot choose from....

Jason wrote:

I understand where you are coming from as well. The impression I got
from
his first post is that he wanted general advice. I gave him MY advice.
He
doesnt have to follow it, obviously. If he had already bought the subs
I
wouldnt have said anything. But I think most of us can agree that for
the
money, since he has not already bought the subs, he might be better off
with
other subs. Sure the Audiobahns will work, and get loud too. But say
if my
brother were to buy new subs, I would steer him elsewhere, just like I
did
with the OP. Why? because to me they just sound better. Especially
at
high power. What other reason do I need to recommend something? If the
OP
tells me that he listened to others and likes Audiobahn more, then thats
that, I will shut up.

I agree with you in principle, what sounds better to you may not sound
better to me, and you have to get what sounds better to you. But I am
failry certain the OP never heard other subs considering the rudimentary
questions he is asking.

We can agree to disagree, but I am not sure we disagree.

But I think most of us can agree that for the
money, since he has not already bought the subs, he might be better off with
other subs. Sure the Audiobahns will work, and get loud too. But say if my
brother were to buy new subs, I would steer him elsewhere, just like I did
with the OP. Why? because to me they just sound better. Especially at
high power. What other reason do I need to recommend something?

My only problem with this is that in my experience, which isn't anywhere near
as vast as most around this group, ALOT of people simply cannot tell the
difference between a "good" sub and a "bad" one. I'd be willing to bet that
most of the kids in this small town would be hard pressed to hear a difference
in sound quality between their 2 Rockford Punch subs (Which is what the local
store sells of course) and my single IDQ 10. To me, my IDQ sounds WORLDS
better, but to alot of people, they will associate loudness with quality. I
think that is a good part of why companies like Audiobahn can sell a ton. They
can sell loud subs for a good price, and everyone is happy.

Of course, this guy might hear a different sub and realize that his Audiobahn's
don't sound too hot, but I feel that the average person just wanting to "bump"
in their car does not noice the difference.

I agree with you in principle, what sounds better to you may not sound
better to me, and you have to get what sounds better to you. But I am
failry certain the OP never heard other subs considering the rudimentary
questions he is asking.

I'm sure you are right there.A "1000 watt" label on a sub catches alot of
eyes.. and since Audiobahns are fairly cheap, I'm sure that helped his decision
quite a bit. You and I both know that he could do better with the same
money.... I'm just not convinved that he would notice the difference... Like
you said, considering the rudimentary questions he is asking.

We can agree to disagree, but I am not sure we disagree.

Well, not entirely anyway.

Nick

He may not notice, but it wouldnt hurt to listen to other subs that people
recommend.
Thats all I mean.

"TheBIessedDead" wrote in message
...
But I think most of us can agree that for the
money, since he has not already bought the subs, he might be better off
with
other subs. Sure the Audiobahns will work, and get loud too. But say if
my
brother were to buy new subs, I would steer him elsewhere, just like I
did
with the OP. Why? because to me they just sound better. Especially at
high power. What other reason do I need to recommend something?

My only problem with this is that in my experience, which isn't anywhere
near
as vast as most around this group, ALOT of people simply cannot tell the
difference between a "good" sub and a "bad" one. I'd be willing to bet
that
most of the kids in this small town would be hard pressed to hear a
difference
in sound quality between their 2 Rockford Punch subs (Which is what the
local
store sells of course) and my single IDQ 10. To me, my IDQ sounds WORLDS
better, but to alot of people, they will associate loudness with quality.
I
think that is a good part of why companies like Audiobahn can sell a ton.
They
can sell loud subs for a good price, and everyone is happy.

Of course, this guy might hear a different sub and realize that his
Audiobahn's
don't sound too hot, but I feel that the average person just wanting to
"bump"
in their car does not noice the difference.

I agree with you in principle, what sounds better to you may not sound
better to me, and you have to get what sounds better to you. But I am
failry certain the OP never heard other subs considering the rudimentary
questions he is asking.

I'm sure you are right there.A "1000 watt" label on a sub catches alot of
eyes.. and since Audiobahns are fairly cheap, I'm sure that helped his
decision
quite a bit. You and I both know that he could do better with the same
money.... I'm just not convinved that he would notice the difference...
Like
you said, considering the rudimentary questions he is asking.

We can agree to disagree, but I am not sure we disagree.

Well, not entirely anyway.

Nick

Well my current ED12A sounds MUCH better than my old Pioneer subs. An
those
sounded better than the Audiobahns I heard at circuit city.

Sure alot has to do with install, most probably, but you cant say all subs
are equal.

Plus the ED has a 3 year warranty.

Not all subs in all boxes at all power levels are equal, no.

how did you come to these conclusions?

Jason wrote:

You are right, and the OP may not either, we all have different tastes, but
I was offering mine. To me my ED sounds way better than the Audiobahns.
Now a 40Hz tone is a 40Hz tone is a 40Hz tone, BUT music is rarely a single
40Hz tone. Music in my car on my subs sound better, louder, cleaner, more
distinct than the Audiobahns.

But I have certainly heard worse than Audiobahns.

Where on Earth is the OP anyhow?

"Eddie Runner" wrote in message
...
I dont see anything wrong with the way AudioBahn subs sound!!

But there are alof of subs out there that sound just as good so there
is alot ot choose from....

Jason wrote:

I understand where you are coming from as well. The impression I got
from
his first post is that he wanted general advice. I gave him MY advice.
He
doesnt have to follow it, obviously. If he had already bought the subs
I
wouldnt have said anything. But I think most of us can agree that for
the
money, since he has not already bought the subs, he might be better off
with
other subs. Sure the Audiobahns will work, and get loud too. But say
if my
brother were to buy new subs, I would steer him elsewhere, just like I
did
with the OP. Why? because to me they just sound better. Especially
at
high power. What other reason do I need to recommend something? If the
OP
tells me that he listened to others and likes Audiobahn more, then thats
that, I will shut up.

I agree with you in principle, what sounds better to you may not sound
better to me, and you have to get what sounds better to you. But I am
failry certain the OP never heard other subs considering the rudimentary
questions he is asking.

We can agree to disagree, but I am not sure we disagree.

"Mark Zarella" wrote in message
...
Well my current ED12A sounds MUCH better than my old Pioneer subs. An
those
sounded better than the Audiobahns I heard at circuit city.

Sure alot has to do with install, most probably, but you cant say all
subs
are equal.

Plus the ED has a 3 year warranty.

Not all subs in all boxes at all power levels are equal, no.



And not all subs have the same surface area, texture, stiffness, power
handling, etc etc also, right?

At 1 watt a 40Hz tone would be undistinguishable between an IDMax and a
Jensen yes.

But what about blasting "Get Low" at 100+db? You would HAVE to notice a
difference there right? Not to mention its practically impossible to do a
fair comparison here, since both subs would prefer very different boxes
anyhow, you couldnt do a even comparison.

So when I say my ED sounds better than an Audiobahn I mean in the everyday
sense. My sub plays lower notes louder, and doesnt make any slapping noises
or muddy sounds, and when I play rap music, the low notes sound different
than the very low notes, whereas on the Audiobahns they all sound like the
same low note.

And my ED is so purdy.

Which conclusions?

Which subs sound better? I listened to them. I would take a blind taste
test on those any day, so long as its playing real world music at a real
world volume (i.e. loud).

"Eddie Runner" wrote in message
...
how did you come to these conclusions?

Jason wrote:

You are right, and the OP may not either, we all have different tastes,
but
I was offering mine. To me my ED sounds way better than the Audiobahns.
Now a 40Hz tone is a 40Hz tone is a 40Hz tone, BUT music is rarely a
single
40Hz tone. Music in my car on my subs sound better, louder, cleaner,
more
distinct than the Audiobahns.

But I have certainly heard worse than Audiobahns.

Where on Earth is the OP anyhow?

"Eddie Runner" wrote in message
...
I dont see anything wrong with the way AudioBahn subs sound!!

But there are alof of subs out there that sound just as good so there
is alot ot choose from....

Jason wrote:

I understand where you are coming from as well. The impression I
got
from
his first post is that he wanted general advice. I gave him MY
advice.
He
doesnt have to follow it, obviously. If he had already bought the
subs
I
wouldnt have said anything. But I think most of us can agree that
for
the
money, since he has not already bought the subs, he might be better
off
with
other subs. Sure the Audiobahns will work, and get loud too. But
say
if my
brother were to buy new subs, I would steer him elsewhere, just like
I
did
with the OP. Why? because to me they just sound better.
Especially
at
high power. What other reason do I need to recommend something? If
the
OP
tells me that he listened to others and likes Audiobahn more, then
thats
that, I will shut up.

I agree with you in principle, what sounds better to you may not
sound
better to me, and you have to get what sounds better to you. But I
am
failry certain the OP never heard other subs considering the
rudimentary
questions he is asking.

We can agree to disagree, but I am not sure we disagree.

Not all subs in all boxes at all power levels are equal, no.



And not all subs have the same surface area, texture, stiffness, power
handling, etc etc also, right?

That's right. Not that it matters, except for the last thing you mentioned
there.

At 1 watt a 40Hz tone would be undistinguishable between an IDMax and a
Jensen yes.

But what about blasting "Get Low" at 100+db? You would HAVE to notice a
difference there right?

Maybe. 100dB doesn't take a whole lot of power to achieve. And a lot
depends on enclosure, positioning, car, etc.

Not to mention its practically impossible to do a
fair comparison here, since both subs would prefer very different boxes
anyhow, you couldnt do a even comparison.

Exactly right. Thing is, you can adust box dimensions to attempt to make
the subs sound close to each other, and you may very well end up with
totally different sizes for any two subs.

So when I say my ED sounds better than an Audiobahn I mean in the everyday
sense. My sub plays lower notes louder,

Betcha it wouldn't if it was in the wrong box.

and doesnt make any slapping noises
or muddy sounds,

Shouldn't be making slapping noises unless it's bottoming out.

and when I play rap music, the low notes sound different
than the very low notes, whereas on the Audiobahns they all sound like the
same low note.

What's wrong with the sub to make it sound like that?

Ya know what? I am going to do a test on this, today if I have time, this
weekend if not. My brother has 2 Pioneer 12" subs in a sealed box and I
have a single 12" ED 12.22A in a ported box. I am going to run some tests
with these to see if my other brother can tell the following while blinded:

-Can he distinguish between either system as is (playing one car then
playing another without changin equipment)?
-Can he distinguish between two sub systems (driver and boxes swapped on the
same amp)?
-Can he distinguish between a driver (switching one driver for another in
the same box.

For each case I will play a Test sweep, a 40Hz tone, and music, both loud
and soft.

Ill report back with what I hear.

"Jason" wrote in message
...

"Mark Zarella" wrote in message
...
Well my current ED12A sounds MUCH better than my old Pioneer subs. An
those
sounded better than the Audiobahns I heard at circuit city.

Sure alot has to do with install, most probably, but you cant say all
subs
are equal.

Plus the ED has a 3 year warranty.

Not all subs in all boxes at all power levels are equal, no.



And not all subs have the same surface area, texture, stiffness, power
handling, etc etc also, right?

At 1 watt a 40Hz tone would be undistinguishable between an IDMax and a
Jensen yes.

But what about blasting "Get Low" at 100+db? You would HAVE to notice a
difference there right? Not to mention its practically impossible to do a
fair comparison here, since both subs would prefer very different boxes
anyhow, you couldnt do a even comparison.

So when I say my ED sounds better than an Audiobahn I mean in the everyday
sense. My sub plays lower notes louder, and doesnt make any slapping
noises
or muddy sounds, and when I play rap music, the low notes sound different
than the very low notes, whereas on the Audiobahns they all sound like the
same low note.

And my ED is so purdy.

Ya know what? I am going to do a test on this, today if I have time, this
weekend if not. My brother has 2 Pioneer 12" subs in a sealed box and I
have a single 12" ED 12.22A in a ported box. I am going to run some tests
with these to see if my other brother can tell the following while
blinded:

Of course he'll be able to tell. Don't waste your time.

"Mark Zarella" wrote in message
...
Not all subs in all boxes at all power levels are equal, no.



And not all subs have the same surface area, texture, stiffness, power
handling, etc etc also, right?

That's right. Not that it matters, except for the last thing you
mentioned
there.


I would bet it does matter. Surface area should matter lots! Texture...
not so much. stiffness should matter lots as well! Thats why we dont have
rubber speakers

At 1 watt a 40Hz tone would be undistinguishable between an IDMax and a
Jensen yes.

But what about blasting "Get Low" at 100+db? You would HAVE to notice a
difference there right?

Maybe. 100dB doesn't take a whole lot of power to achieve. And a lot
depends on enclosure, positioning, car, etc.


Yes youre right which is why this is more of a silly discussion, its
impossible to prove. But given all things as close to equal as possible,
and lets say 130db, you would notice the difference between and IDMax and a
Jensen.

Not to mention its practically impossible to do a
fair comparison here, since both subs would prefer very different boxes
anyhow, you couldnt do a even comparison.

Exactly right. Thing is, you can adust box dimensions to attempt to make
the subs sound close to each other, and you may very well end up with
totally different sizes for any two subs.


Of course, another reason why this is such a crazy argument.. like is
synthetic oil better than dino oil?

So when I say my ED sounds better than an Audiobahn I mean in the
everyday
sense. My sub plays lower notes louder,

Betcha it wouldn't if it was in the wrong box.


Sure, but if both were in the wrong box, the ED would win, and if both were
in practally ideal boxes, the ED would win out as well. Again, install IS
more important than driver, you wont find me disagreeing with that. But
Driver is important.

and doesnt make any slapping noises
or muddy sounds,

Shouldn't be making slapping noises unless it's bottoming out.


Well it may be bottoming out then. Muddiness may be from too large a box,
but who knows what sort of wierd effects that huge surround might have,
possibly acting like a quasi passive radiator, effectively enlargin the box?
Most likely install, though the ones I have heard looked to be installed
decently. What sort of thing affect boominess and muddiness in a sub (and
DONT say that muddiness doesnt exist because I have heard it!)


and when I play rap music, the low notes sound different
than the very low notes, whereas on the Audiobahns they all sound like
the
same low note.

What's wrong with the sub to make it sound like that?


Prhaps they are very ineffecient and cannot reproduce higher frequencies
well. Perhaps the big surrounds goof it up, perhaps their impedance changes
drastically at slightly differing frequencies, perhaps they overheat,
perhaps the flex and only produce bass at the drivers resonant frequencies
(so all other frequencies dont show up well). I dont know, I obviously am
no expert. I do know what I have heard and learned over the years.

And I dont consider myself a sucker to hype, nor a rebel. I dont like Sony,
RF, Audiobahn, all which are much hyped, but I do like JL Audio, which many
of the snobs tend to sneer at. I like what sounds good to me.

Its funny, I came very close to buying the JVC Warren G series because they
sounded so much better than the RFs I was listening to at the time. But boy
they were cheesy. Still, I cant deny how clean they sounded. Thats an
example of what I mean. Why would I prefer the "Warren G" ghetto looking
sub to a RF?

"Mark Zarella" wrote in message
...
Ya know what? I am going to do a test on this, today if I have time,
this
weekend if not. My brother has 2 Pioneer 12" subs in a sealed box and I
have a single 12" ED 12.22A in a ported box. I am going to run some
tests
with these to see if my other brother can tell the following while
blinded:

Of course he'll be able to tell. Don't waste your time.



Hehe, I wont, I was just gonna make a fake write up and play it off

it can get boring at work at times, I need to lay off the NG for a while
hehe.

That's right. Not that it matters, except for the last thing you
mentioned
there.


I would bet it does matter. Surface area should matter lots!

You'd think it would. And in a sense, it does. That is, if all else was
equal, it would provide a considerable difference. But surface area can be
compensated for in enclosure design. In fact, some of Small's papers on the
subject show some general curves that relate efficiency, cone area, and
enclosure size for both vented and sealed enclosures. I have a short one
that's more of a review than original research that you may be interested.
I believe Small is the author in that one, and I believe it was published in
Wireless World in the mid 80's. If you want a pdf, lemme know.

Texture...
not so much.

Right.

stiffness should matter lots as well! Thats why we dont have
rubber speakers

Hehe, that's right. But I'm not so sure the stiffness is going to matter a
whole lot, aside from determining the breakup modes of the driver, and
sometimes the moving mass. The former is only an issue at higher
frequencies, and the latter can be compensated for by enclosure.

At 1 watt a 40Hz tone would be undistinguishable between an IDMax and
a
Jensen yes.

But what about blasting "Get Low" at 100+db? You would HAVE to notice
a
difference there right?

Maybe. 100dB doesn't take a whole lot of power to achieve. And a lot
depends on enclosure, positioning, car, etc.


Yes youre right which is why this is more of a silly discussion, its
impossible to prove. But given all things as close to equal as possible,
and lets say 130db, you would notice the difference between and IDMax and
a
Jensen.

It depends what you're holding equal. If you're allowed to adjust
compensatory parameters, then I'd bet you can get most subs to exhibit a
nearly identical freq response at common bandwidths. Play with it in WinISD
and you'll see what I mean. Note that I'm not necessarily saying this holds
true for all subs, but I'd reckon most.


Not to mention its practically impossible to do a
fair comparison here, since both subs would prefer very different
boxes
anyhow, you couldnt do a even comparison.

Exactly right. Thing is, you can adust box dimensions to attempt to
make
the subs sound close to each other, and you may very well end up with
totally different sizes for any two subs.


Of course, another reason why this is such a crazy argument.. like is
synthetic oil better than dino oil?

The argument is worth discussing though, because it illustrates the relative
weight that each component contributes to the overall SQ. I'd argue that
you could get most any subwoofer to sound good if you adjusted enclosure and
positioning, and were operating within the power range of the sub. In fact,
I'd argue that the car has more to do with sub bass response than the sub
itself.



So when I say my ED sounds better than an Audiobahn I mean in the
everyday
sense. My sub plays lower notes louder,

Betcha it wouldn't if it was in the wrong box.


Sure, but if both were in the wrong box, the ED would win, and if both
were
in practally ideal boxes, the ED would win out as well. Again, install IS
more important than driver, you wont find me disagreeing with that. But
Driver is important.

and doesnt make any slapping noises
or muddy sounds,

Shouldn't be making slapping noises unless it's bottoming out.


Well it may be bottoming out then. Muddiness may be from too large a box,
but who knows what sort of wierd effects that huge surround might have,
possibly acting like a quasi passive radiator, effectively enlargin the
box?

Surround has the effect of enlarging effective cone area, but not by much.
It also contributes to xmax presumably.


Most likely install, though the ones I have heard looked to be installed
decently. What sort of thing affect boominess and muddiness in a sub (and
DONT say that muddiness doesnt exist because I have heard it!)

I'm sure it exists. We've all heard muddy before. What it's attributed to
is the question though.

You'd think it would. And in a sense, it does. That is, if all else was
equal, it would provide a considerable difference. But surface area can be
compensated for in enclosure design. In fact, some of Small's papers on the
subject show some general curves that relate efficiency, cone area, and
enclosure size for both vented and sealed enclosures. I have a short one
that's more of a review than original research that you may be interested.
I believe Small is the author in that one, and I believe it was published in
Wireless World in the mid 80's. If you want a pdf, lemme know.

I wouldn't mind reading through that.

Nick

You'd think it would. And in a sense, it does. That is, if all else was
equal, it would provide a considerable difference. But surface area can
be
compensated for in enclosure design. In fact, some of Small's papers on
the
subject show some general curves that relate efficiency, cone area, and
enclosure size for both vented and sealed enclosures. I have a short one
that's more of a review than original research that you may be
interested.
I believe Small is the author in that one, and I believe it was published
in
Wireless World in the mid 80's. If you want a pdf, lemme know.

I wouldn't mind reading through that.

I'll scan the one I'm thinking of tonight and pdf-ize it. I'll get it out
to you tonight or tomorrow.

I'll scan the one I'm thinking of tonight and pdf-ize it. I'll get it out
to you tonight or tomorrow.

Nice. Thanks much.