OK, The last time I did a system was in 94 when i had my quart
components in the front of a 94 civic with 4 mtx 10" in a bandpass box
ported through the rear deck. I was running a clarion head and a pair
of punch 45's.
Now I have decided to put a more mature sytem in my 03 rsx-s . I want
to maximize sound quality, not cause any crazy resonation of interior
panels and keep the system simple along with the price down. Sounds
hard huh?
Well first off I dont know what to do about a head unit. I really like
the sony head with the built in hard drive but I worry about audio
qualtiy. I think any cd player with good DA's and can play mp3's would
suit me well.
As for compenets, same deal. When i left quart ruled the world and
there were people around me that were starting to get some more rare
stuff like focal and dynaudio. I have been looking at a/d/s , the jl
audio compenets, JBL's GTI line and quarts. I love real punchy mids
and midbass with a nice smooth non harsh tweet. At home i listen to
Sonus Faber if that gives any of you an idea.
Subs? Well , i feel that this is a less critical choice. If i get the
mid bass i want out of the front compenents I just want to run a jl 6
in the trunk mounted in a ported enclosure residing in the spare tire
well . I might consider an 8 but I am unsure of which one to get.
Amps, well ive been looking at A/D/S and thats really it. I need
something that has all the money i pay invested in quality parts and
design of the amp. I need an amp with good headroom and a warm sound.
The only other thing i have considered besides a/d/s is mcintosh but
the price is a bit high for my liking.
Lastly, as for signal processing, i would like to use a two way
crossover built into the amp but if i need to i can go external.
Again, 10 years ago audio control was the end all here. What is the
current bang for your buck quality audio company.
I would appreciate everyone's input, no bling blingy audio stuff
please ;-)

I love real punchy mids
and midbass with a nice smooth non harsh tweet.

You just described everything MB Quart is not.

mark v. wrote:

OK, The last time I did a system was in 94 when i had my quart
components in the front of a 94 civic with 4 mtx 10" in a bandpass box
ported through the rear deck. I was running a clarion head and a pair
of punch 45's.
Now I have decided to put a more mature sytem in my 03 rsx-s . I want
to maximize sound quality, not cause any crazy resonation of interior
panels and keep the system simple along with the price down. Sounds
hard huh?
Well first off I dont know what to do about a head unit. I really like
the sony head with the built in hard drive but I worry about audio
qualtiy. I think any cd player with good DA's and can play mp3's would
suit me well.
As for compenets, same deal. When i left quart ruled the world and
there were people around me that were starting to get some more rare
stuff like focal and dynaudio. I have been looking at a/d/s , the jl
audio compenets, JBL's GTI line and quarts. I love real punchy mids
and midbass with a nice smooth non harsh tweet. At home i listen to
Sonus Faber if that gives any of you an idea.
Subs? Well , i feel that this is a less critical choice. If i get the
mid bass i want out of the front compenents I just want to run a jl 6
in the trunk mounted in a ported enclosure residing in the spare tire
well . I might consider an 8 but I am unsure of which one to get.
Amps, well ive been looking at A/D/S and thats really it. I need
something that has all the money i pay invested in quality parts and
design of the amp. I need an amp with good headroom and a warm sound.
The only other thing i have considered besides a/d/s is mcintosh but
the price is a bit high for my liking.
Lastly, as for signal processing, i would like to use a two way
crossover built into the amp but if i need to i can go external.
Again, 10 years ago audio control was the end all here. What is the
current bang for your buck quality audio company.
I would appreciate everyone's input, no bling blingy audio stuff
please ;-)

Whats wrong with bling bling?? I am running an entirely Audiobahn (ABC
series component) system powered by all MA Audio (HK series) amps. Twin
Adire Audio 15" Brahma subs for the boom. I love the sound of my system.
All the SPL that I can handle but the audiophiles cant touch me when it
comes to SQ. Its a great balance in my opinion and I paid a hell of a
lot less for it than some of the other big-money buying suckers out
there. Its ALL about installation. Dont rely upon brand names. Go with
what sounds the best to your own (hopefully two) ears.

Want my input? Well I think JL Audio is overpriced, there are much
cheaper and better alternatives IMO. I think McIntosh is seriously
$$bling$$ $$bling$$, if you know the true definition of the phrase
(representing money or something of extreme value). Spend your money on
quality amplifiers and installation and the lesser on speakers that
match characteristics you prefer.

EFFENDI

"mark v." wrote in message
om...
OK, The last time I did a system was in 94 when i had my quart
components in the front of a 94 civic with 4 mtx 10" in a bandpass box
ported through the rear deck. I was running a clarion head and a pair
of punch 45's.
Now I have decided to put a more mature sytem in my 03 rsx-s . I want
to maximize sound quality, not cause any crazy resonation of interior
panels and keep the system simple along with the price down. Sounds
hard huh?
Well first off I dont know what to do about a head unit. I really like
the sony head with the built in hard drive but I worry about audio
qualtiy. I think any cd player with good DA's and can play mp3's would
suit me well.

Check out the newer Eclipse decks. Very nice and not too pricey.


As for compenets, same deal. When i left quart ruled the world and
there were people around me that were starting to get some more rare
stuff like focal and dynaudio. I have been looking at a/d/s , the jl
audio compenets, JBL's GTI line and quarts. I love real punchy mids
and midbass with a nice smooth non harsh tweet. At home i listen to
Sonus Faber if that gives any of you an idea.

I have Dynaudio and absolutely love them. But you don't need to spend that
much money to get decent sound...I guess it depends on how critical you are.
As far as midbass goes, I would say this has a lot to do with the install
(what doesn't). Focal certainly isn't to scoff at either. Also check out
Diamond Audio.


Subs? Well , i feel that this is a less critical choice.

Really? Don't skimp there!!

If i get the
mid bass i want out of the front compenents I just want to run a jl 6
in the trunk mounted in a ported enclosure residing in the spare tire
well . I might consider an 8 but I am unsure of which one to get.

Again, it's all about the install. I'm not going to talk you out of an 8,
but if you've got the room I would consider a 10 in a SEALED enclosure (you
brought up SQ).




Amps, well ive been looking at A/D/S and thats really it. I need
something that has all the money i pay invested in quality parts and
design of the amp. I need an amp with good headroom and a warm sound.
The only other thing i have considered besides a/d/s is mcintosh but
the price is a bit high for my liking.

You should consider the Phoenix Gold titanium line of amps. They sound
great, have tons of power, and are very versatile. sounddomain.com is a
fully authorized dealer and the prices are excellent.


Lastly, as for signal processing, i would like to use a two way
crossover built into the amp but if i need to i can go external.
Again, 10 years ago audio control was the end all here. What is the
current bang for your buck quality audio company.
I would appreciate everyone's input, no bling blingy audio stuff
please ;-)

Once again the PG amps have built in xovers that are variable and provide
many different configurations. Audio Control still makes some sweet stuff
too.

Good luck!

Tony

--



What's more likely? That an all-powerful mysterious god created the
universe and then decided not to give any proof of his existence? Or, that
he simply doesn't exist at all? And that we created him so that we wouldn't
have to feel so small and alone. -Eleanor Arroway, Contact

Tony, that was good stuff man. Thanks for all the tips.

As far as the eclipse goes I didnt see any information on da
converters while skimming their site. I would like to find something
with very nice da converters. The single bit jvcs were always pretty
good and then if you wanted to take that step up to God level you
could always get a Clarion DRX-9255. I would like something like this
or a mcintosh head. I just think the mcintoch head would look plain
stupid in an rsx.

I will definitly check out diamond audio for components. BTW, i have
always like quarts mid drivers, just never ever cared for their
tweets. I always thought their little soft dome budget tweet was a lot
better than their 3/4 tweet. If you have ever heard a pair of sonus
faber home speaks they have a very warm seductive sound. I need
something like that for my car with a tad more edge to cut through the
road noise.

As for subs, i have always had a thing for big bass, until i bought my
miata. I tend to not crank up the stereo much these days after having
been weened from my big sub setups. One thing I am concerned about is
weight. I dont want much. Therefore keeping the sub down in size along
with the magnent on the sub is a concern. I think if i properly
install good front components and maybe a 6 3/4 to 7 in the rear
panels i will only need a sub for the very lowest of octaves. If i
could build a ported enclosure that was tuned down around 35hz that
would pretty much be perfect for me.

I will definitly check out the PG amps too man. Im looking for quality
here , quality caps, quality coils, quality boards, quality
craftmanship.

BTW, if you dig bling bling thats your game and i respect that. I just
dont like it, my friends dont like it, and it looks very fast and
furious which i am not. I have more respect for a speaker/amp/whatever
company that puts the money you spend into r&d, materials, and
construction rather than what can we package that will be decent and
then chrome/gold plate, add neon too, etc.
Just my .02

I would look into Clarion DXZ835MP from www.thezeb.com

reputable site - great price for a 24 bit da head unit.

Has sub out w level controllable from the hu.
I would go with passive crossovers - whether it be part of a component set
of if you piece together components. There are some great deals out there
from the car audio message boards (i.e. www.elitecaraudio.com or others ) -
some guys change gear monthly - so there are always mint condition speakers
for 30-40% of retail. I recently purchased a set of Phoenix Gold Ti 6 Elite
components - msrp 900 - got them 300 - mint in box. I've recently seen a lot
of CDT comp sets also.

amp - lots of choices , PG Titanium are great as mentioned.

I would suggest going to the message forum sites and researching there.

also try www.caraudioforum.com


"mark v." wrote in message
om...
OK, The last time I did a system was in 94 when i had my quart
components in the front of a 94 civic with 4 mtx 10" in a bandpass box
ported through the rear deck. I was running a clarion head and a pair
of punch 45's.
Now I have decided to put a more mature sytem in my 03 rsx-s . I want
to maximize sound quality, not cause any crazy resonation of interior
panels and keep the system simple along with the price down. Sounds
hard huh?
Well first off I dont know what to do about a head unit. I really like
the sony head with the built in hard drive but I worry about audio
qualtiy. I think any cd player with good DA's and can play mp3's would
suit me well.
As for compenets, same deal. When i left quart ruled the world and
there were people around me that were starting to get some more rare
stuff like focal and dynaudio. I have been looking at a/d/s , the jl
audio compenets, JBL's GTI line and quarts. I love real punchy mids
and midbass with a nice smooth non harsh tweet. At home i listen to
Sonus Faber if that gives any of you an idea.
Subs? Well , i feel that this is a less critical choice. If i get the
mid bass i want out of the front compenents I just want to run a jl 6
in the trunk mounted in a ported enclosure residing in the spare tire
well . I might consider an 8 but I am unsure of which one to get.
Amps, well ive been looking at A/D/S and thats really it. I need
something that has all the money i pay invested in quality parts and
design of the amp. I need an amp with good headroom and a warm sound.
The only other thing i have considered besides a/d/s is mcintosh but
the price is a bit high for my liking.
Lastly, as for signal processing, i would like to use a two way
crossover built into the amp but if i need to i can go external.
Again, 10 years ago audio control was the end all here. What is the
current bang for your buck quality audio company.
I would appreciate everyone's input, no bling blingy audio stuff
please ;-)

The single bit jvcs were always pretty
good and then if you wanted to take that step up to God level you
could always get a Clarion DRX-9255. I would like something like this
or a mcintosh head. I just think the mcintoch head would look plain
stupid in an rsx.

You can find some used good quality 9255s on eBay. I think Clarion also
recently brought it back into production again. If you're seriously
considering something of this magnitude, then don't forget Sony's CDX-C90 or
a Nakamichi CD-700, and I've heard nothing but good things about Denon's Z1
(I hope that's the right model number....I'm really tired right now). Denon
even made a deck for Rockford Fosgate that's supposed to really kick ass and
it's not too expensive. I bought a used C90 along with two CD changers and
a digital EQ (none of which I ever actually used except for the C90 itself)
for $800 on eBay last year.

Very few people I've talked to have the McIntosh. Is it the looks? I'm not
sure.

Tony



--



What's more likely? That an all-powerful mysterious god created the
universe and then decided not to give any proof of his existence? Or, that
he simply doesn't exist at all? And that we created him so that we wouldn't
have to feel so small and alone. -Eleanor Arroway, Contact

"mark v." wrote in message
om...
Tony, that was good stuff man. Thanks for all the tips.

As far as the eclipse goes I didnt see any information on da
converters while skimming their site. I would like to find something
with very nice da converters. The single bit jvcs were always pretty
good and then if you wanted to take that step up to God level you
could always get a Clarion DRX-9255. I would like something like this
or a mcintosh head. I just think the mcintoch head would look plain
stupid in an rsx.

I will definitly check out diamond audio for components. BTW, i have
always like quarts mid drivers, just never ever cared for their
tweets. I always thought their little soft dome budget tweet was a lot
better than their 3/4 tweet. If you have ever heard a pair of sonus
faber home speaks they have a very warm seductive sound. I need
something like that for my car with a tad more edge to cut through the
road noise.

As for subs, i have always had a thing for big bass, until i bought my
miata. I tend to not crank up the stereo much these days after having
been weened from my big sub setups. One thing I am concerned about is
weight. I dont want much. Therefore keeping the sub down in size along
with the magnent on the sub is a concern. I think if i properly
install good front components and maybe a 6 3/4 to 7 in the rear
panels i will only need a sub for the very lowest of octaves. If i
could build a ported enclosure that was tuned down around 35hz that
would pretty much be perfect for me.

I will definitly check out the PG amps too man. Im looking for quality
here , quality caps, quality coils, quality boards, quality
craftmanship.

BTW, if you dig bling bling thats your game and i respect that. I just
dont like it, my friends dont like it, and it looks very fast and
furious which i am not. I have more respect for a speaker/amp/whatever
company that puts the money you spend into r&d, materials, and
construction rather than what can we package that will be decent and
then chrome/gold plate, add neon too, etc.
Just my .02

amen...

hertz my ears.

FHLH


"MZ" wrote in message
...
I love real punchy mids
and midbass with a nice smooth non harsh tweet.

You just described everything MB Quart is not.

So im just curious, as I see a/d/s mentioned a lot in older post, what
are the current top of the crop car audio amps for sound quality and
dynamic headroom?

So im just curious, as I see a/d/s mentioned a lot in older post, what
are the current top of the crop car audio amps for sound quality and
dynamic headroom?

Nowadays, every company I'm aware of makes amplifiers that provide perfect
sound quality (when you're not driving them into saturation), and the vast
majority of companies are manufacturing certain amps in their lines to give
you a tremendous amount of headroom.

Yes, but I guess I don't like the fact that a lot of the amps are
manufactured in places like china, etc. I always liked the Japan made
old alpines and the American made sq amps. The components in newer
amps like the ppi pcx for example generally suck. I have been checking
out elitecaraudio.com or whatever that site is a LOT the last few
days. They have turned me onto a lot of sweet amps. Some of the amps I
have been looking at are brax, tru ( which I don't know a lot about, I
don't feel the site provides a lot of info on what makes amp a better
than amp b ) , sinfoni ( beautiful amps, awesome construction quality
) and DLS, which is offering me a smokin deal on their 3 channel CA
series.
I would love to have a newer Orion for example but I am having a hard
time determining what changes were made to design when DEI took over
vs. before, how the sq of the amp has changed as a result etc. As a
result I think I might need to look at this small boutique amp
companies or track down " classics ".

Yes, but I guess I don't like the fact that a lot of the amps are
manufactured in places like china, etc. I always liked the Japan made
old alpines and the American made sq amps.

Most of these are still made in places like china or use chinese or
taiwanese parts. I think the design team is more important though anyway.

The components in newer
amps like the ppi pcx for example generally suck. I have been checking
out elitecaraudio.com or whatever that site is a LOT the last few
days. They have turned me onto a lot of sweet amps. Some of the amps I
have been looking at are brax, tru ( which I don't know a lot about, I
don't feel the site provides a lot of info on what makes amp a better
than amp b ) , sinfoni ( beautiful amps, awesome construction quality
) and DLS, which is offering me a smokin deal on their 3 channel CA
series.

You can get Helix amps, for example, which are half the price of Brax but
are still designed by audiotec-fischer.

I would love to have a newer Orion for example but I am having a hard
time determining what changes were made to design when DEI took over
vs. before, how the sq of the amp has changed as a result etc. As a
result I think I might need to look at this small boutique amp
companies or track down " classics ".

This has been addressed in here before. Do a google groups search for Orion
with the author John Durbin, who is a regular in this newsgroup and an
employee of DEI. The best thing about John is that he knows what he's
talking about and doesn't BS, so you can take his descriptions about what's
been done with Orion as truth.

Orion, PPI, ADS, are famous brands which represented true American made
quality. These Names now are file cabinet property of DEI, the snake alarm
people. You won't find any difference in the boards inside these amps now.
What was lost was the sonic signatures and durability of each of the brands.
Earthquake is one of the old brands still pumping out their stuff. They are
in the middle of the Silicon Valley. www.earthquakesound.com . P.





"mark v." wrote in message
om...
Yes, but I guess I don't like the fact that a lot of the amps are
manufactured in places like china, etc. I always liked the Japan made
old alpines and the American made sq amps. The components in newer
amps like the ppi pcx for example generally suck. I have been checking
out elitecaraudio.com or whatever that site is a LOT the last few
days. They have turned me onto a lot of sweet amps. Some of the amps I
have been looking at are brax, tru ( which I don't know a lot about, I
don't feel the site provides a lot of info on what makes amp a better
than amp b ) , sinfoni ( beautiful amps, awesome construction quality
) and DLS, which is offering me a smokin deal on their 3 channel CA
series.
I would love to have a newer Orion for example but I am having a hard
time determining what changes were made to design when DEI took over
vs. before, how the sq of the amp has changed as a result etc. As a
result I think I might need to look at this small boutique amp
companies or track down " classics ".

Orion, PPI, ADS, are famous brands which represented true American made
quality. These Names now are file cabinet property of DEI, the snake alarm
people. You won't find any difference in the boards inside these amps now.
What was lost was the sonic signatures and durability of each of the
brands.
Earthquake is one of the old brands still pumping out their stuff. They
are
in the middle of the Silicon Valley. www.earthquakesound.com . P.

Do I have to be the 100th person in this newsgroup to point out that you're
full of ****, or is it common knowledge by now?

All I see is post of people that are ticked off at DEI. Do they really
suck that bad? Did they overhall the components of the amps to mimic
other amps so they can save money across the board? Is orion still
made in the US?
BTW, what is the deal with RF amps? I see new " punch " amps on ebay
VERY cheap , like 70 bux buy it now. Are they fake? Or is punch crap
now?
I had told DLS I would take one of theirs but geez. Ill compromise if
the punch amps dont suck and i can get two for less than 2 bills.

BTW the post about the brax and helix, was that a positive comment on
the helix? I couldnt tell what context it was in.
And theaudiophile is offering me a helix at a pretty good price. I
think I would feel real good about having one of those. Thats the type
of amp I could keep for a long long time. I just dont want to drop the
better part of eight bills.

All I see is post of people that are ticked off at DEI. Do they really
suck that bad? Did they overhall the components of the amps to mimic
other amps so they can save money across the board? Is orion still
made in the US?

There has been no evidence provided that they're doing any of these things.
In fact, I think they kept the a/d/s/ line intact since the "hostile
takeover". My take is that people are wary of any company that buys out
another, because more often than not they turn companies with good products
into crap. Directed puts out good product in their own lines, so there's no
reason to believe they would buy out ADSTech so that they could turn the
product into crap. It just doesn't make sense.

BTW, what is the deal with RF amps? I see new " punch " amps on ebay
VERY cheap , like 70 bux buy it now. Are they fake? Or is punch crap
now?

It's not crap at all. Buy selling your product at Best Buy is the kiss of
death to most so-called "audiophiles". From what I understand, very little
has changed inside RF amps in recent years. That's not to say they're the
same as what they were 10 years ago, but I don't think they went from good
to crap the moment they signed on with Best Buy.

I had told DLS I would take one of theirs but geez. Ill compromise if
the punch amps dont suck and i can get two for less than 2 bills.

BTW the post about the brax and helix, was that a positive comment on
the helix? I couldnt tell what context it was in.

Yeah it was a positive comment. My point was that there's usually a big
price difference between the two brands, but if your criteria was based
primarily on who designed them, then you'd be looking at the same company.


And theaudiophile is offering me a helix at a pretty good price. I
think I would feel real good about having one of those. Thats the type
of amp I could keep for a long long time. I just dont want to drop the
better part of eight bills.

Peter's a good guy, but like everyone in the industry he has his biases. He
is, after all, the US distributor for Brax and Helix. You're going to have
to make the determination of whether or not there's a difference between the
Helix amp and other less expensive amps.

(mark v.) wrote in message . com...
OK, The last time I did a system was in 94 when i had my quart
components in the front of a 94 civic with 4 mtx 10" in a bandpass box
ported through the rear deck. I was running a clarion head and a pair
of punch 45's.
Now I have decided to put a more mature sytem in my 03 rsx-s . I want
to maximize sound quality, not cause any crazy resonation of interior
panels and keep the system simple along with the price down. Sounds
hard huh?
Well first off I dont know what to do about a head unit. I really like
the sony head with the built in hard drive but I worry about audio
qualtiy. I think any cd player with good DA's and can play mp3's would
suit me well.
As for compenets, same deal. When i left quart ruled the world and
there were people around me that were starting to get some more rare
stuff like focal and dynaudio. I have been looking at a/d/s , the jl
audio compenets, JBL's GTI line and quarts. I love real punchy mids
and midbass with a nice smooth non harsh tweet. At home i listen to
Sonus Faber if that gives any of you an idea.
Subs? Well , i feel that this is a less critical choice. If i get the
mid bass i want out of the front compenents I just want to run a jl 6
in the trunk mounted in a ported enclosure residing in the spare tire
well . I might consider an 8 but I am unsure of which one to get.
Amps, well ive been looking at A/D/S and thats really it. I need
something that has all the money i pay invested in quality parts and
design of the amp. I need an amp with good headroom and a warm sound.
The only other thing i have considered besides a/d/s is mcintosh but
the price is a bit high for my liking.
Lastly, as for signal processing, i would like to use a two way
crossover built into the amp but if i need to i can go external.
Again, 10 years ago audio control was the end all here. What is the
current bang for your buck quality audio company.
I would appreciate everyone's input, no bling blingy audio stuff
please ;-)

HU - Anything that doesn't have Dolphins jumping on the face plate, a
high output voltage (2 volts min 4 volts better), and a low output
impedance(shoot for about 100 ohms.)(Lower is better)

Amps - MTX - Amplifiers are supposed to do a couple of things #1 make
the signal larger, #2 not add noise,(like turn on or off pops), #3 be
reliable. MTX does that better than anyone.

Woofer - Sealed enclosure, JL Audio woofer, I like W3V2 versions
because they are not real expensive and they sound great. JL brought a
new level of woofer design to the market when they started looking at
how a woofer reacts under high signal levels instead of just low
signal levels like everyone in the industry. Their engineering is
second to none.

Seperates - New JL's in the kick panels. Minimize path lengths, which
is really easy in an RSX or Accord by just placing the speakers in the
kicks. BTY the new JL's seps use Kurt Mueller cones from germany. It
doesnt get any better than that.

Signal processing - Still Audio Control. You can use the crossovers
built into the amplifier, Variable freq, steep slope, first rate.
Spend your bucks on Audio Controls new digital 2 channel EQ.

HU - Anything that doesn't have Dolphins jumping on the face plate, a
high output voltage (2 volts min 4 volts better), and a low output
impedance(shoot for about 100 ohms.)(Lower is better)

Output impedance is a virtually worthless spec. The distribution isn't so
wide that it makes any difference. Most amp input impedances are on the
order of 10k ohms or so, so as long as you're anywhere in the hundreds or
even the low thousands in terms of HU output impedance, it won't make any
difference at all.


Amps - MTX - Amplifiers are supposed to do a couple of things #1 make
the signal larger, #2 not add noise,(like turn on or off pops), #3 be
reliable. MTX does that better than anyone.

MTX does a good job of that, as does literally hundreds of other
manufacturers.

Well, I was sold on the DLS amps but I got a really good deal on a
pair of new in the box fosgates from a few years ago, a punch 55.2 and
punch 75.2 .
I would like the clarion DRZ9255 , that is an awesome head unit. I
doubt very seriously I will drop the coin on it.
Components, those new JL's would be nice. Are you reffering to the 600
dollar ones? I would like to try some cliff designs / cdt stuff. Not
sure. I dont know if I want to spend over 300 dollars, as I am trying
to keep this on a budget.
Subs, JL, yea. I dont think it gets much better. I was going to use a
6.5 " jl sub ( 6w0 i think ) that I have over here. It would be a
great upgrade to the crap bose 5 incher or whatever it is. Now my gf
wants a little low end fill so im going to build a basic ported box
for her and see how it works out. Depending if I like it ill either
get another or go for a 10 " JL sub.
Lastly, as for signal processing, audio control still seems to the
way, your message confirms that. I dont know about the digital eq but
Ill see. I was thinking of using something a bit more simple to just
dial out any peaks.
Thanks again for all the help guys.

"MZ" wrote in message ...
HU - Anything that doesn't have Dolphins jumping on the face plate, a
high output voltage (2 volts min 4 volts better), and a low output
impedance(shoot for about 100 ohms.)(Lower is better)

Output impedance is a virtually worthless spec. The distribution isn't so
wide that it makes any difference. Most amp input impedances are on the
order of 10k ohms or so, so as long as you're anywhere in the hundreds or
even the low thousands in terms of HU output impedance, it won't make any
difference at all.

"MZ" I have to disagree with you on that "output impedance is a
virtually worthless spec". Around 1990 the Alpine 7909 broke new
ground in the competition world by providing 4.2 volts of clean output
and an output impedance of 690 ohms. That is why they are still sought
after today.If you had one in your car you had a huge advantage.You
had a lot more usable dynamic range than your competitors. A large
signal,low impedance source is a requirement to build a really good
sounding system. Quality manufacturers have learned this and are
focused on this issue improving all of the time. My new eclipse unit
provides a 6 volt output and an output impedance of 80 ohms.


Amps - MTX - Amplifiers are supposed to do a couple of things #1 make
the signal larger, #2 not add noise,(like turn on or off pops), #3 be
reliable. MTX does that better than anyone.

MTX does a good job of that, as does literally hundreds of other
manufacturers.

That's really overstated... for the most part dealers and consumers have
been supportive of our efforts to keep all three of the brands alive.
Our customer service survey results are again up over last year, and
higher than most in the 12V business. As far as product, Orion was
completely relaunched in 2003 following the design direction that had
been devised prior to our acquisition, likewise with the subwoofer and
speaker lines for PPI. PPI amps were relaunched this year as were the
a/d/s/ component speaker models (they start shipping this month,
finally!) ... We have yet to clone ANY of this stuff, including our
Directed Audio and entry level Xtreme products, everything is different
and stands on its own merits. I have not figured out why people want to
suspect the worst about us or our intentions for product development
but I would guess it's a typical cynical reaction and just another
common element of human nature.

JD

mark v. wrote:

All I see is post of people that are ticked off at DEI. Do they really
suck that bad? Did they overhall the components of the amps to mimic
other amps so they can save money across the board? Is orion still
made in the US?
BTW, what is the deal with RF amps? I see new " punch " amps on ebay
VERY cheap , like 70 bux buy it now. Are they fake? Or is punch crap
now?
I had told DLS I would take one of theirs but geez. Ill compromise if
the punch amps dont suck and i can get two for less than 2 bills.

BTW the post about the brax and helix, was that a positive comment on
the helix? I couldnt tell what context it was in.
And theaudiophile is offering me a helix at a pretty good price. I
think I would feel real good about having one of those. Thats the type
of amp I could keep for a long long time. I just dont want to drop the
better part of eight bills.

Output impedance is a virtually worthless spec. The distribution isn't
so
wide that it makes any difference. Most amp input impedances are on the
order of 10k ohms or so, so as long as you're anywhere in the hundreds
or
even the low thousands in terms of HU output impedance, it won't make
any
difference at all.

"MZ" I have to disagree with you on that "output impedance is a
virtually worthless spec". Around 1990 the Alpine 7909 broke new
ground in the competition world by providing 4.2 volts of clean output
and an output impedance of 690 ohms. That is why they are still sought
after today.If you had one in your car you had a huge advantage.You
had a lot more usable dynamic range than your competitors. A large
signal,low impedance source is a requirement to build a really good
sounding system. Quality manufacturers have learned this and are
focused on this issue improving all of the time. My new eclipse unit
provides a 6 volt output and an output impedance of 80 ohms.

Two questions:
1) How does your dynamic range in a car improve with lower output impedance?
2) What does a high voltage output provide that a low voltage output
doesn't?

I'll answer #2 for you. It provides a lower (electrical) noise floor
(something that's absolutely useless in a car, for a number of reasons).

Anyway, I just disagree with your argument. My contention can be
demonstrated by treating the circuit as a voltage divider (which is what it
is). Assume 2 head units, one with a 50 ohm output impedance and another
with a 1000 ohm output impedance. Assume an amplifier input impedance of
10k ohms (typical). The difference in total output between the two units
would then be 0.03 dB.

This is on the order of 1/30th of a single volume click.

In other words, it just doesn't matter.

MZ Wrote:
Output impedance is a virtually worthless spec. The distributio
isn't
so
wide that it makes any difference. Most amp input impedances ar
on the
order of 10k ohms or so, so as long as you're anywhere in th
hundreds
or
even the low thousands in terms of HU output impedance, it won'
make
any
difference at all.

"MZ" I have to disagree with you on that "output impedance i
a
virtually worthless spec". Around 1990 the Alpine 7909 broke new
ground in the competition world by providing 4.2 volts of clea
output
and an output impedance of 690 ohms. That is why they are stil
sought
after today.If you had one in your car you had a hug
advantage.You
had a lot more usable dynamic range than your competitors. A large
signal,low impedance source is a requirement to build a reall
good
sounding system. Quality manufacturers have learned this and are
focused on this issue improving all of the time. My new eclips
unit
provides a 6 volt output and an output impedance of 80 ohms.

Two questions:
1) How does your dynamic range in a car improve with lower outpu
impedance?
2) What does a high voltage output provide that a low voltage output
doesn't?

I'll answer #2 for you. It provides a lower (electrical) nois
floor
(something that's absolutely useless in a car, for a number o
reasons).

Anyway, I just disagree with your argument. My contention can be
demonstrated by treating the circuit as a voltage divider (which i
what it
is). Assume 2 head units, one with a 50 ohm output impedance an
another
with a 1000 ohm output impedance. Assume an amplifier inpu
impedance of
10k ohms (typical). The difference in total output between the tw
units
would then be 0.03 dB.

This is on the order of 1/30th of a single volume click.

In other words, it just doesn't matter.



I completely disagree with the statement. Last year in a competition m
cousin posted a 143 flat scale with an old pioneer deck which was mayb
2 volts. For the next competition I let him use my alpine with 4 vol
preouts, and the numbers jumped dramatically to a 147. That's a hug
difference in SPL. I about guarantee the number would be higher ye
with the eclipse 8 volt
--
memphi
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I completely disagree with the statement. Last year in a competition my
cousin posted a 143 flat scale with an old pioneer deck which was maybe
2 volts. For the next competition I let him use my alpine with 4 volt
preouts, and the numbers jumped dramatically to a 147. That's a huge
difference in SPL. I about guarantee the number would be higher yet
with the eclipse 8 volt.

Explain to me how one achieves more power output with a higher voltage
preout. An amplifier can deliver only a certain amount of power, and this
is dictated by the characteristics of the amplifier itself (eg. rail
voltage, output Z of the amp, etc), and not the level of the input signal.

thats the kinda thing a dumb stereo salesman would say...maybe someone
told him that in a stereo store and he believes it.... ha ha ha

MZ wrote:

I completely disagree with the statement. Last year in a competition my
cousin posted a 143 flat scale with an old pioneer deck which was maybe
2 volts. For the next competition I let him use my alpine with 4 volt
preouts, and the numbers jumped dramatically to a 147. That's a huge
difference in SPL. I about guarantee the number would be higher yet
with the eclipse 8 volt.

Explain to me how one achieves more power output with a higher voltage
preout. An amplifier can deliver only a certain amount of power, and this
is dictated by the characteristics of the amplifier itself (eg. rail
voltage, output Z of the amp, etc), and not the level of the input signal.

listen to as many components as you can find (dynaudio and focal if
price is less of an issue; diamond audio and jl "xr" series, if price
is more of an issue). for a head unit, i would suggest one with built
in time alignment (alpine and pioneer have some nice ones) if you are
going to use the stock mounting locations (to get a true image). subs?
depends on how much bass you need... jps


--
jpswanberg
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i'm not car audio guru like some of the guys on here but i was in a
similar situation as you.i used to be reallyinto car audio way back in
the day (timeframe: when kicker speakers had "kicker" in a gold
outline!) and recently i decided i wanted a little bump. I picked up a
UsAcoustics amp (after a few people said they were nice for the $) and
an infiniti perfect 12. Its not the loudest by any means but i'm more
then happy. So you might want to look at USAcoustics, they're pretty
cheap (like $150 for 250x2 or 450x1) come with a 3 year warranty, mad
in the US (i think), and put out their rated power (IMO). Just my $.02



--
smokedoutv6
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